Season 2, Episode 10: Dispute Between Brothers — December 08–14, 1990

muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy) writes:

> > but I didn't think I was misled.  However, I do wonder why the FBI would
> > keep a guy on who worked that way; Cooper doesn't really appear to have
> > done much on his own to solve the case, although he may be some sort of
> > focus.  I sort of imagine the FBI to be more down-to-earth than that.

Not that I would trust the ability of government agencies to do much 
right but... I would guess that the FBI might well keep on hand a person 
who manages to get results, even if they can't figure his detection 
methods.

It works with different companies, too. When I was in college, I had a 
job working for a group doing surveys. We quickly discovered that I had a 
knack for looking at a group of about 20 surveys and predicting (based on 
zilch knowledge of statistics) pretty accurately what the results would 
be when they ran the surveys on larger groups, as well as who might be 
expected to falsify their answer, and how, and why. I don't know how it 
works, but I got the results, and they paid me what I thought was an 
exorbitant about for it (well, for a college sophomore, anyway...).

Joe Zitt...cs.utexas.edu!kvue!zitt!joe (512)450-1916

cioffi@menudo.uh.edu (Delia Cioffi) writes:

> > But I thought it was interesting to observe just how real a presence The
> > Net had assumed in my subective experience of a tv show.

Yes! I think that the a.t.tp experience is significantly different from 
the TPonTV experience.

Whereas, for mere mortals :-), TP is on for one hour a week, we manage to 
get a constant feed of it, dipping daily into this flow for a new dose. 
We don't let the episodes fade from our minds, but chew on it, analyse 
it, cross-reference it, and rewatch it with Talmudic intensity. The show 
is only the seed for the MetaShow.

Imagine if there were an interactive 24 hour cable channel devoted to 
analysis of the NFL game of the week...

Joe Zitt...cs.utexas.edu!kvue!zitt!joe (512)450-1916

Gosh -- I started going to Ashland in 83.
"Missed him by that much, chief"

I haven't caught up on all the comments on the 12/8 episode, so I
apologize if someone's already brought this up, but...
Anyone catch Major Briggs' last words:
"Cooper.  Cooper.  Cooper."
Sound familiar?
Just my contribution to the clever observations on TP.
-Fred Cheng
P.S. The last ten minutes were about the only part worth watching.

Due to overwhelming demand I have decided to post the Twin Peaks version
to alt.tv.twin-peaks.  We have received a flood of mail requesting versions.
This mail is over 500% what we expected and I am not sure we can handle
all requests immediately since this is finals week.  

We encourage you to try and FTP it from our site at

kfps-roble6-dynamic.stanford.edu

I understand there has been some trouble connecting.  Let me explain this a
bit.  Rogue is on a dynamic server since its IP number changes.  This
ftp connection will try to connect to various IP address.  Thus please
keep waiting.  If the first address fails the site will automatically
try the next one.  Only if it fails about 10-15 times is the system down.

Please also get it from alt.tv.twin-peaks if you have access to this board
to lower out load.  We are also looking for somebody to help manage the
quotes list.  If you are a TWIN PEAKS fan and are interested let us know
this could give you a lot of publicity.

Glad everybody is enjoying the program and on behalf of PLAYMAC TECHNOLOGIES
thanks for your support and positive reviews.

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  From this week's Entertainment Weekly TV section:

Saturday 12/15:

Twin Peaks-
Agent Cooper's activities at One-Eyed Jacks are investigated by the
FBI;Nadine continues to fall for Mike Nelson; James Hurley is rewarded
for helping a beautiful blond; and Windom[sic] Earle makes a move.

Savvy
savvy@chopin.udel.edu

  From this week's Entertainment Weekly News and Notes Section:

TV: When Twin Peaks' Agent Cooper was shot last season, he prayed for
the chance "to make love to a beautiful woman for whom I feel deep 
affection."  The G-man may soon get his wish, but Audrey Horne won't get
hers.  Heather Graham(Drugstore Cowboy) is about to join Peaks as a new
romantic interest for Kyle MacLachlan's character. Look for her early in
1991...

Savvy
savvy@chopin.udel.edu

In article <28456@megaron.cs.arizona.edu> gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary Newell) writes:
> > Also, I am surprised at the general positive response that this episode
> >has received on the net so far. I thought that it was one of the
> >weakest shows yet. The dialogue was pretty sad (the Donna whining was
> >pathetic and Truman's "cooper is a saint" speech went a bit far for my 
> >tastes) and aside from the "holiday-like" spread at the funeral, the
> >images didn't impress me as much. Frankly, I expected to see a number
> >of "geez - this show is really going downhill fast" postings after this
> >one - maybe they'll come later.......

No, I agree with Gary here.  [mark your calendars :-)]  Right now TP is
in the absolute slough pond of dumb-TV disease.  It's just about as bad
as half a dozen other soapy series out there.  If it stays like this it
deserves to go away.

Frankly, I want another Lynch directed episode!  Let's get something
going here.  And what about Lesli Linka Glatter.  Right now it's like
watching a fish video.

As to why there wasn't more negative response: it's not fun walking in
here week after week and composing another "yuck, this was even WORSE"
article!  It's easier to stay away.  On the other hand, as the show gets
dumber and dumber its ratings are naturally inching upward, and even
here on the net you get more people popping up out of their little holes
and saying "Well I dont know about all thes others but to me this was
one of the best episodes that have yet been shown so far" etc etc.  Hey,
chacon a son gout as we mumble around our brie and baguette...

In article <1990Dec9.224941.24405@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> svihla@evax0.eng.fsu.edu (C. Kurt Svihla) writes:

> >If the bright light turns out to be aliens and Cooper starts building a
> >model of Devil's Tower out of mashed potatoes, I'm retiring my VCR from active
> >duty on Saturday nights.

You know, I postulated this very scenario a while back, and it ended up being
turned into the whole "Where The Hell Is Twin Peaks" thread again.

     On a less serious note (ha!), if the White Light That Ate the Major *is*
some kind of divine being, might it be the same Face of God that MIKE saw,
the one that made him change his life and cut off his arm?
     Prediction: Coop cuts his arm off and grows a beard. Sells shoes for a
living. Starts shooting up with the Magic Drano.

     :), but *you* already knew that, didn't you?

     --The Elder Dan

  Cooper is accused of stealing cocaine during the rescue of Audrey.  But
wasn't Truman with him the whole time?

   NO!  Remember the strange scene in which he tells Truman to wait, goes
off someplace, then comes back and says it was a dead end.  Now we know 
the purpose of that scene :-)

   BTW they said Cooper's raid messed up a sting operation directed against
Renault that had been planned for months.  BUT Renault was not a part of the
One-Eyed Jack operation until Audrey was abducted.

   ``Welcome to amateur hour.''

In article <22143@well.sf.ca.us> lilj@well.sf.ca.us (Joshua Neil Rubin) writes:
> >Cooper's unveiling to Audrey was just excellent.  Kyle played it
> >absolutely perfectly - just under enough to convey a muted freakishness.

Although I found 12/8 disgusting overall I must agree this was one nice
scene.  About time they handed the Cooper and Audrey characters the ball
for a few minutes and let them interact!  I think we know what Tricia
and Tina are good at now, too.  Let's hope they learn to be that good at
some other things, eh?

-- "Just when we finally got good at this, we \_i_/ Tom Neff run out of planets." - a Voyager scientist --[o]-- tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM

In article <1990Dec11.025140.23608@watserv1.waterloo.edu> alternat@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Ann Hodgins) writes:
> >Wondering why I enjoyed the latest episode so very much I
> >realized that it was an extremely, subtly pro-woman episode.

We're very lucky to have so many women writers, directors, editors,
photographers and other creative people establishing themselves at the
top ranks in TV and movies.  Hopefully this kind of pro-woman subtext
will become so common that we won't even think to comment on it!

I know you can't lump all show business people (or any other people)
together by gender, but when women are visible and in charge a lot more
of the time, it'll tend to be harder on average for some of the
blatantly sexist stuff to pass unnoticed.  That alone is a blessing.

It isn't really a TP topic, but I wanted to support Ann on this.

What I mean by mistake is a musician making a mistake and misplaying.
It sounds terrible, although it is barely noticeable.  I doubt
that it was done intentionally.

#Ron

Why Coop would fall for anyone OTHER than Audrey is beyond me.  This new 
twist better be good ...

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                 "A dozen pizzas?  Oh, it's those damn KIDS!"

<<Just an example of what I see as weak in twin-peaks. At the start
<<of the last episode, we see what I assume was meant to be a touching
<<dialogue between Cooper and Mrs. Palmer. But I was unable to buy
<<into the emotion of the scene because it was clear that it was being used 
<<to once again pile in the details of the plot. Rather than simply having
<<a scene in a previous episode showing Leland drugging her, we have to
<<have cooper sit there and spew out some awkward lines describing (in a 
<<very unatural way in my opinion) how leland had drugged her etc. Why?


The episode where Sarah envisioned the horse, my thought was that Leland
was pumping heroin into her.  I think we may have even seen a needle in that 
episode

Spoilers about next episode from commercial.


Looks like the cross-dresser is an agent previously known to Cooper
who is investigating Cooper.  His name is Dennis but he prefers to be called
Denise.  He finds traces of cocaine in Cooper's car.  Cooper tell him that he
knows that can't be straight or something to that effect.  Wow, homosexual
jokes Twin Peaks.  Hawk makes a reference that the cross-dressing makes a good
cover.  I wonder if there's any tie-in with master of disguie Windom Earle.

Also, James is back.

-The Disco Strangler

Yeah, but how good is he at Rocks and Bottles?

I just say a Miami Vice where Lenny Van Dohlen plays a guy named BOB!

And the little kid said: "Jai une palme succotash"

-- Root Boy Jim Cottrell <rbj@uunet.uu.net> Close the gap of the dark year in between

Major Briggs: "There are powerful forces of evil. It is some men's fate
      to face great darkness. We each choose how to react. If the choice
      is fear, then we become vulnerable to darkness. There are ways to
      resist. You, sir, were blessed with certain gifts. In this respect,
      you're not alone. Have you ever heard of the White Lodge?"

Agent Cooper: "The White Lodge. No, I don't believe I have."


Well, Cooper hasn't, but I have. I don't know of any other "legitimate"
source for the reference, but following are quotes from the fantasy
adventure novel THE DEVIL'S GUARD (a.k.a. RAMSDEN) by Talbot Mundy,
first published in 1926, and sadly out of print for the last 20 years.
The page numbers cited are for the 1968 Avon Books paperback edition,
though if you happen across a different edition and are inclined to look
up the quotes, they can be found in Chapter XII, entitled "Dugpas".

[Background: James Schuyler Grim (a.k.a. "Jimgrim") and his companions
Jeff Ramsden, Narayan Singh, and Chullander Ghose, are hired to find
Elmer Rait, a fellow American who's disappeared in Tibet. Along the way,
they are beset by perils both natural and human.]

Grim went on talking: "It's known, even in this monastery,
that the dugpas have caught Rait. Dugpas is the name for
sorcerers who cultivate evil for the sake of evil--that's
as close as I can come to understanding it--they're vaguely
like the Kali-worshippers of India. The people Rait set out
to reach, and whom we want to reach, are the students of
Life, so to speak--much in the same way that Luther Burbank
studies botany, for the love of it. The dugpas are as much
their enemies as the law of gravity is the enemy of the will
to rise. Rait had intelligence enough to work his way into
the outer fringe of the dugpa mysteries, but that was his
limit. He began to try to use the Dalai Lama's letter that
he stole from Mordecai. The Dalai Lama--or the Kun-Dun as
they call him--and the Tashi Lama of Shigatze, are the trusted
outer representatives of the inner secret White Lodge, whose
whose headquarters is said to be Sham-bha-la."  (p. 120-1)

Lhaten was talking..."--No, the White Lodge is not at
Sham-bha-la, but some of its brotherhood live there. The
White Lodge never interferes with individuals, as such, any
more than Nature may be said to interfere with individuals,
as such. The greatest good of the greatest number always;
and no favorites. Do the stars, for instance, limit their
light to individuals? Yet one learns more about than another.
How? By trying; by concentration on the study. Do the stars
come nearer? No. Do they treat him differently? No. Neither
does the White Lodge make distinctions. It is secret, just
as electricity was secret before Thales, Gilbert, Faraday,
and all of the others following them, discovered something
about it. Electricity was there, always, but they had to
find it; and having found it they could give it to the world,
to use or misuse. Was electricity confined to any one place?
No. Neither is the White Lodge confined to any one place.
But some places are more suitable than others, just as there
are certain places where it is more practical to establish
electric plants...."

"How has the White Lodge kept its secret all these years?"
Grim asked.

"Who kept the secret of electricity?" Lhaten answered. "Was
there any need to keep it, while men were too stupid, or too
busily engaged in cutting one another's throats (which is the
same thing!) even to look for it? They were too superstitious
to dare to investigate; afraid to be mocked or burned for
heresy. Nowadays men know not much more, and they are as
superstitious and as cocksure as ever. Nine tenths of them
will mock you if you speak of the existence of the White
Lodge; of the remaining tenth, some will try to put you in
a lunatic asylum, some will curse you in the name of their
religion, and the remainder will try to believe you for
various reasons, most of them selfish..."  (p 124-5)

"To pursue evil, a man must have evil tendencies which will
increase through cultivation as he becomes more and more
responsive to the impulses that govern evil. Owls live in
the dark. [emphasis mine - jmb :-)]          ^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^                        Whales swim in the sea.
Men with scientific tendencies discover laws of nature.
Only those who have the character pertaining to the path
they choose can succeed in the end; and though a shoemaker,
like Kabir, can become a poet, that was because he had the
poet's nature. In the same way, only they who have the
necessary character can find or be received into the White
Lodge, although anyone can receive its benefits, as anyone
may read the poems of Kabir."  (p. 128)

-- "Evvy little bug got a honey ta hug but me." --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA) UUCP: ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian ARPA: boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM

The scene with the light at the end when Briggs shouted, "Cooper.  Cooper,"
was foreshadowed when Briggs showed Coop his sheets of jibberish.  It
appeared after, 'The Owls are not what they seem.'  And Major Briggs told
Cooper, and look later that morning -- Cooper, Cooper.  What it all means
is a mystery -- at least to me.

And it wasn't long before this event that it was confirmed that the owls
are not what they seem.

I find all the fun of Twin Peaks in its ambiguity and not knowing where
it will take us next.  Otherwise, it wouldn't be a mystery.  Would it?


--Cool Bean
-- **This is not cultural.

Did anyone notice the falling water theme in 
the 12/8 episode?  There are two beautifully 
photographed fugues in the middle of the 
episode.  The first is the veil of a waterfall 
which magically parts during a particularly 
mysterious chord in the score.  Second is an 
old faucet, outdoors, gushing water.

Cooper's unveiling to Audrey was just 
excellent.  Kyle played it absolutely 
perfectly - just under enough to convey a muted 
freakishness.

Cooper's parting compliment to Andy was also a 
bass-ackwards way of telling him that he has no 
brain whatsoever.

Here is a binhex'd file of the Room Service waiter saying
"I've heard about you!"


Attachments:
Part 1.229.1 KB

Another binhex'd sound of the Room Service waiter, saying
"The milk'll get cool on you.......pretty soon."



Attachments:
Part 1.280.3 KB

Two questions for the general contemplation of the newsgroup:

1. Has Bobby ended his feud with James? Bobby planted the coke
in James's Harley in last season's finale, James was held in jail
for a couple of days (mostly, I thought, for his own protection),
and then this whole thing seems to have been dropped. In fact,
in the Roadhouse scene where Bobby and Donna were sad during Maddy's
murder, Bobby and James are BOTH at the Roadhouse, apparently
coexisting in peace. That was about the first time that they had
been in the same space and fists and accusations weren't flying.

2. Guessing from the listing in the Austin paper for next Saturday's
episode, Mike Nelson (Bobby's buddy) will be reentering the storyline.
Last season Mike was not very pleased with James taking Donna away
from him. As far as we know, Mike's done nothing about losing his
girlfriend, or even trying to reconcile with Donna. This doesn't 
really fit in with the "macho-jock" image of the character.

Granted, there are other storylines FAR more interesting to me than
anything concerning Donna and James. However, one of my complaints
with Lynch's style is that he doesn't resolve all his plot lines.
I think it is out of character for Bobby to give up his vendetta
against James (although he certainly has his hands full at the
Johnson Nursing Home :-) ).

Usless prediction: After a normal pregnancy, Lucy gives birth to
twin boys she feels compelled to name "Bob" and "Mike". Andy is
confused by the twin birth and assumes that he and Dick each 
fathered one child. After much thought and deliberation, Lucy
reveals herself to actually be Diane Shapiro, PhD from Brandeis
University, Hawk's girlfriend. Lucy/Diane announces that her
presence in Twin Peaks was merely to gather information for her
post-doctoral work in the sociology of hickdom.

Jeff
_____________________________________________________________________
"Ask me about facts and I will answer       Jeff Abbott
everything to your satisfaction. And        abbott@mobius.mcc.aca.com
to hell with the irrelevancies!"            MCC ACT Program 
- Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov        Austin, Texas
_____________________________________________________________________

In article <MUFFY.90Dec8234919@remarque.berkeley.edu> muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy) writes:
> >One thing that struck me while catching up on a week's worth of
> >alt.tv.twin-peaks.  We knew a few episodes in (in the dream sequence)
> >that Cooper had found out who the killer was in a dream.  He then says
> >all he has to do is decipher the dream and he will find the killer.
> >There was no trick played on us by the creators/writers.  He didn't
> >mention anything about standard investigation or deduction, he just said
> >if he could figure out the things in the dream, he would have solved the
> >mystery.  I too felt like everything came together too fast in the end,
> >but I didn't think I was misled.  


The dream was episode #3!  Yet people still feel cheated that we didn't have
a conventional solution.  I haven't felt cheated at all.  I've enjoyed
TP straight through.  My only problem with the episode where Leland dies 
is one of pacing.  I thought the episode was rushed, and could have been 
spread out a bit more.  I enjoyed the last episode too.

   I usually don't agree with the more severe criticisms of TP posted here.  
Often I feel like the poster just doesn't get it.   Sometimes, like in the 
case of "gln", I feel like the poster is just going out of their way to be 
irritating and obnoxious.  He's posted a grand total of one message that 
was a thoughtful criticism, and dozens more that are simply insulting trash.  
When people point out loopholes in the show, they usually turn out to be 
loopholes in their thinking.  Like, Charles Blair just claimed that Jean 
Renault was never associated with OEJ before Blackie called him in help out.
Huh?  How can he be so sure?  He's a likely drug connection for the place.  
Nancy has a relationship with Jean, and she's been at OEJ before.  He always 
ends his criticisms with "welcome to amateur hour", as if to imply that 
the show is amateurish, and I just have to laugh, because I think it more 
correctly describes his continually flawed criticisms.  :)   
Wasn't he the guy with the Truman theory?  :)

I really don't mind criticisms of the show, if they don't have a snide
and arrogant tone.  (like I'm one to talk? haha!)

The one episode I hated, most people seemed to like.  (the one where
dick tremayne meets lucy in the diner?).  I've loved the whole BOB
thing, and others seem to hate it.  I don't think James was being an
"asshole" when he left Donna recently, I think he's freaking out after
two of his friends dying, and people should cut him some slack.
Maybe this sympathy comes from freaking out when friends of mine have
died.  People thought the "she's a caution" scene with Pete and Ben was
out of character for Pete, I didn't think so at all.  I reviewed the
scene with the golf bag, and it didn't flop around after hitting the
door at all, and you can fit a body in there.  I don't think Donna
or James are bad actors, I think they're just acting in character.
They're supposed to be sappy and trite.  Remember James early on?
"Do you know why I'm so happy?"  "Because your hair smells so good
and your skin is so soft?".  That killed me. :)   I thought Donna
did a good job with her "they didn't bury you deep enough!" graveyard
speech, and her Harold Smith diary entry too.

There are many more examples of when I have disagreed with people in here, 
but I've yammered enough on this thang. :)




> >However, I do wonder why the FBI would
> >keep a guy on who worked that way; Cooper doesn't really appear to have
> >done much on his own to solve the case, although he may be some sort of
> >focus.  I sort of imagine the FBI to be more down-to-earth than that.

I wonder why the FBI has someone like Cooper on too...  Because he gets
results?  Remember the scene everyone criticised, the one where
Albert is supposedly not acting in character?  He says something vaguely
like, "you're the only one with the equipment to solve this, go for it".

Maybe Albert, as a fellow FBI agent, knows of Cooper's past unconventional
successes?  I wonder.  He could still be skeptical about Cooper's methods,
and give him a bad time about it, while knowing that there might be
something to it.

Michael Kaye      horny@ucscl.ucsc.edu

This whole Diane thing has me baffled (but then, I missed the whole first
season).

After Audrey got the story from Cooper (I hurt someone I loved, and besides
you could land me in jail), I figured Diane was the dead woman.  So he's been
carrying this baggage around ever since then -- in the form of a cassette
recorder.

But a.t.t-p posters now say Diane will appear, and that an actress has been
named to play her.  So, my questions:

a.  Who's Diane?  Did I miss something important that would tell me who she
    is, or why he keeps dictating to her?

b.  Who's the dead woman?  (I hesitate to call her a "lover.")
--
        ... Michael Ho, University of Nebraska
Internet: ho@hoss.unl.edu | "Mine... is the last voice that you will ever hear."
Disclaimer:  I ain't CRC, I ain't the DN, and they ain't me.  What a relief.

In article <90340.102632EX0@psuvm.psu.edu> EX0@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
> >Does anyone know where or what other works Angelo Badalamenti has composed?

Good question.  You of course know about "floating into the night" and
the TP soundtrack, but did you know he did the Wild at Heart soundtrack
too?  I think it's great!  It has a few emotionally evocative symphonies,
a few elvis style songs sung by nicholas cage, a great hard rock song,
and a few jazz and fiftiesish songs.  It also has a few haunting ballads 
by Chris Isaak that are too beautiful for words.  I saw Chris Isaak in 
concert last weekend, and he was fantastic.  What an incredible vocalist.
He sung for two and a half hours.  Really funny guy too.  Someone posted
a rumor here a while back that Chris Isaak was going to appear on TP.  
Any new info on this?  I know he is friends with David Lynch.  He
sure has the character to fit right in...  His music would fit right in
too.  Alot of Roy Orbison influenced 50's sounding stuff, with spanish
guitar.  Sorry about that mouthful.


I don't know what else Angelo Badalamenti has done besides these, but I'd
love to find out.  I've learned to play many of the songs from these albums,
and if his other work is as good I'd love to hear it.  I'm doing a cover
of the Chris Isaak songs on Wild at Heart and sending to the tapes
to a few friends as a Christmas gift.  Pretty strange huh. :)

I'm sure I'm not spelling "badalamenti" right, I'm sorry about that.
I know how much it bothers me when people spell Leland, "Leeland" or
"Lelland".  Probably because he's my favorite character.   I'll really
miss him.  *sob*   *sob*  *sob*

Michael Kaye   horny@ucscl.ucsc.edu

The White Horse stands for COCAINE!

Someone who is "riding the white horse" is high on cocaine or some other
powder drug.

kp

  In the 12/12/90 edition of the Wilmington News Journal, it noted that
Diane Keaton (Mr. Mom) will be directing a Twin Peaks episode scheduled
to air in February 1991.

Savvy
savvy@chopin.udel.edu

> > I don't think James was being an
> >"asshole" when he left Donna recently, I think he's freaking out after
> >two of his friends dying, and people should cut him some slack.
> >Maybe this sympathy comes from freaking out when friends of mine have
> >died.  I reviewed the scene with the golf bag, and it didn't flop around
> > after hitting the door at all, and you can fit a body in there.  
> > 

I think you could probably fit a body in the golf bag.  I never said
the bag flopped, I said it was swung aside by the door hitting it, which
it most certainly was.  A bit more subtle than a flop, but if you
look closely you'll see it.  The car trunk also does not react properly
when the golf bag is thrown in it.  Toss a hundred pound bag of concrete
in your trunk sometime.  We all *know* that there really wasn't a body in
the golf bag, or Ray Wise would never have been able to carry it so
easily.  The director erred by sloppy shooting which failed to maintain
the illusion that there was.  This is fact, not mindless criticism.

I still think James was a self-centered yahoo for leaving Donna alone.
Remember the reaction of the town after Laura's body was found?
Curfews and paranoia were the order of the day.  James finds out Maddy
was killed and leaves his ostensible true love crying in the woods,
pleading with him not to leave.  If he cares enough about his friends
to freak out over their demise, he should also care enough about Donna
to take her to a safe place.  I think the scene was another opportunity
for the writers to show us poor James, trapped in a world he never
made. It didn't ring true, at least in the eyes of this beholder.
______________________________________________________________________
  C. Kurt Svihla    |                                                 |
SVIHLA@EVAX.ENG.FSU | "None are so blind as those who will not agree with you"
____________________|_________________________________________________|

In article <16085@chopin.udel.edu>, savvy@chopin.udel.edu (Michael S Savett) writes:
> > 
> >   In the 12/12/90 edition of the Wilmington News Journal, it noted that
> > Diane Keaton (Mr. Mom) will be directing a Twin Peaks episode scheduled
> > to air in February 1991.
> > 
> > Savvy
> > savvy@chopin.udel.edu

  Sorry 'bout that...I was thinking of Michael Keaton for Mr. Mom...I
believe Diane Keaton , who directs the episode, was in Baby Boom, the
movie I was thinking of.

Savvy

Lara Flynn Boyle (Donna) appeared on Arsenio Hall last week, and I'm
a bit surprised I haven't see comments from the group about 
this. I'm not a regular Arsenio watcher, but I did make a point
to check out this edition.

Lara's appearance given ammunition aplenty to Donna-bashers. IMHO,
she came off as ditzy and shallow. Granted, it's difficult to make
a totally honest judgement of a person on a TALK SHOW, but she
seemed to have little concept of anything outside of her own little
world (much like Donna, eh? :-) ) Perhaps this is why she is a
rather substandard actress (again, IMHO).

She blathered on about "shoveling rats" in her poor Chicago tenement
and talked ad nauseum about her recurring dream of being smothered
in marshmallow spread. Makes one wonder what she and Kyle do in 
the privacy of their own kitchen. . .

Jeff

_____________________________________________________________________
"Ask me about facts and I will answer       Jeff Abbott
everything to your satisfaction. And        abbott@mobius.mcc.aca.com
to hell with the irrelevancies!"            MCC ACT Program 
- Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov        Austin, Texas
_____________________________________________________________________

In article <1990Dec12.013148.14205@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> ceblair@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Charles Blair) writes:
> >   BTW they said Cooper's raid messed up a sting operation directed against
> >Renault that had been planned for months.  BUT Renault was not a part of the
> >One-Eyed Jack operation until Audrey was abducted.

And just how do you know that?  Just because we didn't see him until that
point don't mean he warn't around.


--
Rob Jellinghaus                 | "Next time you see a lie being spread or
Autodesk, Inc.                  |  a bad decision being made out of sheer
robertj@Autodesk.COM            |  ignorance, pause, and think of hypertext."
{decwrl,uunet}!autodesk!robertj |    -- K. Eric Drexler, _Engines of Creation_

In article <16085@chopin.udel.edu> savvy@chopin.udel.edu (Michael S Savett) writes:
> >
> >  In the 12/12/90 edition of the Wilmington News Journal, it noted that
> >Diane Keaton (Mr. Mom) will be directing a Twin Peaks episode scheduled
> >to air in February 1991.

"Mr. Mom" was Michael Keaton (aka Batman).

-- Scott Amspoker | Basis International, Albuquerque, NM | "I'm going out for a sandwich" (505) 345-5232 | - Ben unmvax.cs.unm.edu!bbx!bbxsda!scott |

In article <1621@mobius.ACA.MCC.COM> abbott@mobius.ACA.MCC.COM (Jeff Abbott) writes:
> >Lara Flynn Boyle (Donna) appeared on Arsenio Hall last week, and I'm
> >a bit surprised I haven't see comments from the group about 
> >this. I'm not a regular Arsenio watcher, but I did make a point
> >to check out this edition.
> >
> >Lara's appearance given ammunition aplenty to Donna-bashers. IMHO,
> >she came off as ditzy and shallow. Granted, it's difficult to make
> >a totally honest judgement of a person on a TALK SHOW, but she
> >seemed to have little concept of anything outside of her own little
> >world (much like Donna, eh? :-) ) Perhaps this is why she is a
> >rather substandard actress (again, IMHO).
> >
> >She blathered on about "shoveling rats" in her poor Chicago tenement
> >and talked ad nauseum about her recurring dream of being smothered
> >in marshmallow spread. Makes one wonder what she and Kyle do in 
> >the privacy of their own kitchen. . .
> >
> >Jeff
> >
> >_____________________________________________________________________
> >"Ask me about facts and I will answer       Jeff Abbott
> >everything to your satisfaction. And        abbott@mobius.mcc.aca.com
> >to hell with the irrelevancies!"            MCC ACT Program 
> >- Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov        Austin, Texas
> >_____________________________________________________________________


Do remember that poor Lara is only about 20 or 21, and many people in
show business aren't there in lieu of rocket science.  Besides, even
the MIT aero-astro majors I knew were into throwing water balloons
out of windows with funnelators at that age .... :-)
--
Julie Kozaczka Stahlhut
"I'm not especially responsible but it's not my employer's fault."

    You want to know why Jean would be interested in a place like OEJ? 
It's simple, we are told that he is a very big player in the Canadian
underworld, thus the sting operation, and the setup.

    His lover is Blackie's sister.

    And finally, in the scene where he shows the tape of Audrey to Ben
Horne, he introduces himself by saying something like "We have already
met.  I sell insurance, to small businesses, such as One-Eyed-Jack's." 
Ben replies with a smile and say "Well, are my premiums about to go up?"

    This can be seen as protection money, and thus Jean would have a
long and mild interest in the affairs of OEJ, also, don't forget the
fact that he is now the new partner of OEJ, thanks to the removal of
Blackie, and the cooperation of Ben.

  I hope that settles it.


J-L P

In article <13581@chaph.usc.edu> komatsu@alcor.usc.edu (-----> Dave) writes:
> >Attention Twin Peaks fans.  
> >
> >TP 275 is now available from anonymous FTP at
> >
> >
> >If your site does not have FTP privileges I will be glad to mail a copy
> >of the program to you.
> >
> >|-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >| ccb.ucsf.edu  IS the home of the Sound-List and over 15 megabytes      |
> >| of sound files for REmac and Playmac.  To add to sound list send       |
> >| to: sound@ccb.ucsf.edu the phrase ADD-ME: <your e-mail address>        |
> >|-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >| komatsu@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu    | I will not encourage others to fly |
> >| komatsu@aludra.usc.edue           | Tar is not a plaything         |
> >| sound@ccb.ucsf.edu            | I will not waste chalk             |
> >| -----> Dave                       |                                    |
> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry to respond like this, but I don't know how to restrict responses on
news to only one person. I would very much like the TP 275 file, but we do
not have FTP privileges. Could you please mail a copy to me? Thanks much...

Janet
-- ____*_ Janet Christian jchristian@indetech.com \ / / Independence Technologies {sun,sharkey,pacbell}!indetech!jchristian \/ / 42705 Lawrence Place FAX: 415 438-2034 \/ Fremont, CA 94538 Voice: 415 438-2054

In article <mP8TT4w163w@halcyon.uucp> halcyon!hikaru@sumax.seattleu.edu (Richard Barrett) writes:

> >I got the impression that the gum was merely given as a marker, a 
> >landmark for Cooper. As for TMFAP is concerned, I like the idea that he 
> >is supposed to be Leland as he is without BOB, sort of a stunted type of 
> >soul. After all, BOB has evidently been in charge for quite some time 
> >now, and Leland wasn't exactly up to snuff as far as emotions go. 
> >Emotionally and mentally, he was a dwarf. This is shown by his excessive 
> >grief last season.
> >Where did Leland go when BOB took over? To another place. So we have the 
> >Dwarf. 

I don't buy it. It's easy find a reason once you know what the answer
is supposed to be, but nobody guessed any of that and God knows we've
guessed just about everything! I strongly believe that Lynch just
plays with images he likes, leaving others to try and make some sense
out of it.
-- c2h5oh@ucscb.ucsc.edu | "Have you ever seen a grown man in a beard and | business attire hopping, skipping and jumping in the | Port Authority terminal? It looks damned stupid."

Sorry to all others for wasting bandwidth but this is important



Jeff,

I can't reply to your message.  I tried to send Twin Peaks twice
and it bounced both times.  Is it possible for you to:

(1)  Get the file from: alt.tv.twin-peaks (posted there)
(2)  FTP it from : kfps-roble6-dynamic.stanford.edu
(3)  Send me an alternate address

|-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Note: ccb.ucsf.edu contains 15 megs of sound files for REmac & Playmac |
| Mail: sound@ccb.ucsf.edu (with ADD-ME: name@site to be added to the    |
|       sound list providing information on PC sound programs            |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| komatsu@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu    |  Playmac Technologies              |
| komatsu@aludra.usc.edue           |  Co-author / Public Relations      |
| -----> Dave                       |  Playmac 2.00, SIMP, TP, QL etc    |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actress Diane Keaton will be directing a Twin Peaks episode which will
air in February. Source: San Francisco Chronicle, 12/12/1990. In this
episode, "Big Ed will cook for Nadine." Have no idea what that means.

"Diane, it's 3:30 AM. There's a spider the size of a Buick in here."

-- R. Chao Oakland CA Previously of UNiversity of Cal

In article <1990Dec11.011652.7072@intelhf.hf.intel.com> hutch@hutch.intel.com
(Stephen Hutchison) writes:
> >
> >In article <18439@netcom.UUCP>, mojo@netcom.UUCP (Morris Jones) writes:
>> >>
>> >> Vivian says, "Don't you think you're overreacting?"  What she really should
>> >> have said was "Don't you think you're overacting?"
>> >> 
>> >> Boy Peggy _stank_ in that scene!
>> >> 
>> >> Mojo
> >
> >We disagree.  Norma's darling mother is clearly one of those diseased psyches
> >(future bob host) whose ideas of childrearing include controlling every aspect
> >of the child's life as fits her whim. [stuff omitted]
> >
> >Norma, well trained by her years of this kind of child abuse (theme!), reacts
> >in just the ineffectual and abject fashion that rewards mommie dearest...
> > [more stuff omitted]
> >
> >Norma, were she strong enough to really deal with ruthless mommie in the
> >way that mommie deals with her, would, on discovering the deception, have
> >turned mommie out into the streets, after contacting the tabloids so she
> >could blow dear mommie's job out of the water.  At very least she would
> >tell the conniving old biddy (who is going to SUFFER when her dear hubby
> >blows all her cash) that her sanctimonious twaddle about "not wanting her
> >to compromise her journalistic ethics by lying" is crapola because she's
> >already compromised them by reviewing her daughter's restaurant!
> >
> >hutch

First of all, I don't think the opinion that Peggy Lipton was overacting
negates the fact that Norma's mother is warped. When I first watched the
scene, I was genuinely moved by what Norma said since I reacted solely to
what she was saying. When I replayed the scene later, Peggy Lipton did
seem to be hamming it up some. (Listen to her say, "But I'm your daughter.")
Too bad, because her overacting seems to have obscured the feelings Norma
was expressing...

Second, I hope I don't ever have a son as vengeful as you :-) Seriously,
I don't think Norma acted in an ineffectual manner, and I don't think
she's weak. She was very hurt by her mother's actions, but she put her
foot down and said she wasn't going to put up with her coldness         
anymore. Obviously, Norma has felt that her mother doesn't take her
seriously nor really care for her. Telling her mother to get out of her
life was difficult enough. Vengefulness does not equal strength. Though
I wouldn't blame Norma if she told Big Ed to give her mother's car a
Youngstown tune-up (an old Mafia technique).

All-in-all, a good scene with believable emotions, IMHO.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Melnyk
Infrared Processing and Analysis Center (IPAC)
Jet Propulsion Lab/Caltech 
(818) 584-2962

graffam@sud509.ed.ray.com (Jim Graffam) writes:

> >The makers of TP and everbody else has forgotton to address the question of
> >Who Shot Agent Cooper!?

I am holding to Josie Packard - she is the only one in town rich enough and
likely enough to have been wearing a vicuna coat.


-- Clay Luther, Postmaster cluther@supernet.haus.com Harris Adacom Corporation postmaster@supernet.haus.com Voice: 214/386-2356 MS 23, PO Box 809022, Dallas, Tx 75380-9022 Fax: 214/386-2159 Your mileage may vary. Void where prohibited.

Speaking of nukeable T.P. actors, I'd add the following:

Kimmy Robertson

Anyone who has seen her interviewed knows that the only difference
between her and Lucy is what's on their paychecks. I don't mean to
disparage Kimmy's personality either (and I do like Lucy), but to me she 
has the range of Charles Bronson, maybe Pia Zadora on a good day.

To the list of recyclable actors I'd add:

Richard Beymer (he really wasn't *that* bad in West Side Story, was he...?)
Eric Da Re
Walter Olkewicz (Dear Departed Jacques)
Wendy Robie 
Grace Zabriskie

Overrated:

Michael Ontkean
(He was OK in "Making Love", but he also deserved to be in the Susannah
Hoffs movie.)

Heaven help us when Carol Linley is foisted upon us...
Who's next... Gavin McLeod?    

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Melnyk 
Infrared Processing and Analysis Center (IPAC)
Jet Propulsion Lab/Caltech
(818) 584-2962

For the record, I've been receiving all of the TP sound files
and making use of them on my Mac. I feel forever indebted to
those of you who have been kind enough to post them. Please
keep them coming as Twin Peaks has an endless supply of
terrific quotes. People come from miles around to hear the
latest ones on my computer. 

As for those who DON'T have a use for them, isn't it a simple
matter to simply SKIP the messages you don't want? That's
what I always do. A lot of us simply aren't able to ftp
things on the systems we're using.

Finally, a request: The Giant: "You forgot something."
Great for a shutdown message!

Thanks again, sound posters.

The last scene of the 12/1 and the 11/24 episodes showed what appeared to be
an owl's perspective of a flight through a car wreck.

Here is an hypothesis. The car wreck represents BOB's former host, Leland.

Leland acted as a vehicule, so to speak, for BOB. When Leland died, this
vehicule became useless, a wreck, to be discarded. That's why the camera was
going through the reck at the end of 11/24. It was leaving the old wreck
behind, and was in search of a new vehicule.

When the camera found the light, we saw a bird emerging from it. This bird
turned out to be an owl. But before we could identify it as an owl, I could
have sworn it was a dove. This brings to mind the infamous "the owls are not
what they seem" line.

White lights are usually associated with purity, innocence, peace. As Leland
was dying, he saw the light, and he saw Laura in it. And he went to it.

But what if that light is really evil? You'd expect a dove to come from such a
light. But what's the significance of the dove turning into an owl?

At the end of 12/1, that white light had a definite negative connotation to it,
as it appeared to be related to the Major's disappearance.

I don't know what's going to happen to Major Briggs, but if any of what I
rambled about above is true, then things don't look to "bright" for him. 

This time, Cooper should be right on top of things.

Mario Ouellet
Dalhousie University
Halifax, Nova-Scotia

cluther@supernet.haus.com (Clay Luther)
writes 

> > I am holding to Josie Packard - she is the only one in town rich enough and
> > likely enough to have been wearing a vicuna coat.


I couldn't agree more, thats a theory I've held since the episode where he was shot.  

Roy

/ hpopd:alt.tv.twin-peaks / hikaru@halcyon.HP.COM / 12:26 am  Dec 10, 1990 /
alternat@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Ann Hodgins) writes:

> > Sorry to blow your [good] theory, but Cooper said in the season premiere 
> > that the gunman was wearing a mask.

If, as I assume (you all probably know) that it was Leland who was watching
Maddie in 1006 and 1007, and that it was therefore Leland who attacked Jacoby,
and given that when Leland attacked Jacoby he was wearing a mask - couldn't the
person who shot Cooper have been Leland?

Richard.

   I agree; the Twin Peaks sounds are generally of high quality and high
comedy.  The "Who's Bob" and "Sperm Gun" sounds were a little quiet, but
still pretty good.  Kudos to all who have posted them, and please keep
it up!

Brian
eck@eniac.seas.upenn.edu

In article <2451@ac.dal.ca> marsup@ac.dal.ca writes:
> >
> >Leland acted as a vehicule, so to speak, for BOB. When Leland died, this
> >vehicle became useless, a wreck, to be discarded. That's why the camera was
> >going through the reck at the end of 11/24. It was leaving the old wreck
> >behind, and was in search of a new vehicle.
 

I like this theory, which makes the entire scene symbolic rather than
factual.
> >

> >When the camera found the light, we saw a bird emerging from it. This bird
> >turned out to be an owl. But before we could identify it as an owl, I could
> >have sworn it was a dove. This brings to mind the infamous "the owls are not
> >what they seem" line.
 
It was a flapping thing in negative (light parts dark and dark parts light)
and to me it looked like a bat.
 

> >White lights are usually associated with purity, innocence, peace. As Leland
> >was dying, he saw the light, and he saw Laura in it. And he went to it.
> >But what if that light is really evil? 
> >At the end of 12/1, that white light had a definite negative connotation to it,
> >as it appeared to be related to the Major's disappearance.
> >

There was also a bright light shining through the slats of the rail car
in the scenes of Laura's murder - possible a meaningless technicality
but then again, white light shone on Maddy's murder, too.
Perhaps the light simply refers to spiritual, non material,
reality. Perhaps the spirit world of light contains negative as well
as positive entities.
 
The owl could have emerged from the purely spirit plane materializing into
an owl as it searches for a human host. 
 
a.h.

Wasn't there a "Peggy Lipton" on Mod Squad years ago?  Is this the same
woman?


---------------/----------------------------------------------
Mike Kalstein / Hewlett-Packard CSY Commercial Systems Support
             /  kalstein@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com
------------/-------------------------------------------------

Did anyone notice that Donna was smoking at the wake?
In front of HER MOM?  

Somehow I have the feeling Mom would not approve...

It seems like there are way too many smokers on this show, 
including all the high school kids (sans James/drip)....

Leo, Shelly, Donna, Bobby, Audrey, Josie... I know there are more...

 ***********************************************
* Susan K. Raisty           | "Shut your eyes  *
* august@athena.mit.edu     | and you'll burst *
        * august@brokaw.lcs.mit.edu | into flames" -LL *
         ***********************************************

In article <22160@well.sf.ca.us> emmanuel@well.sf.ca.us (Emmanuel Goldstein) writes:
> >
> >For the record, I've been receiving all of the TP sound files
> >and making use of them on my Mac. I feel forever indebted to
> >those of you who have been kind enough to post them. Please
> >keep them coming as Twin Peaks has an endless supply of
> >terrific quotes. People come from miles around to hear the
> >latest ones on my computer. 

I can't think of anything more stupid.  Why do people want to listen
to a computer saying one line?  Why don't you just use a tape
recorder for the whole show and listen to whatever you want?
That's got to be cheaper.

Besides, don't think it doesn't cost anything to send those huge
files all over the continent.

___________________________________________________________________
Rolf MeierMitel Corporation
   "Everthing You Know Is Wrong"

 kenp@hprpcdhprpcd.HP.COM (Ken Pomaranski) writesThe White Horse stands for 

>> >>COCAINE!
>> >>
>> >>Someone who is "riding the white horse" is high on cocaine or some other
>> >>powder drug.

This is in the neighborhood of what i thought it was but on the street, horse
is heroin


roy

In article <1990Dec13.143624.22706@watserv1.waterloo.edu> alternat@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Ann Hodgins) writes:
> >In article <1618@mobius.ACA.MCC.COM> abbott@mobius.ACA.MCC.COM (Jeff Abbott) writes:
>> >>Two questions for the general contemplation of the newsgroup:
>> >>I think it is out of character for Bobby to give up his vendetta
>> >>against James (although he certainly has his hands full at the
>> >>Johnson Nursing Home :-) ).
> > 
> >I don't think so.  The diary establishes that Bobby is basically a good,
> >simple kid.  I think he struck out at James because he needed to blame
> >someone for Laura's death. He had loved Laura for years. Now his life
> >is so crammed with incident, he has no time to hold any grudges, even if
> >he were so inclined.

I agree with you up to a point, Ann. Bobby is NOT an evil person,
and he is portrayed in the diary as a good, simple kid (even though
he does, according to Laura, commit manslaughter by shooting a guy).
However, planting cocaine in someone's bike goes far beyond simple
anger. We have been led to believe that Bobby blindly HATES James.
I hope that this antagonism is either brought out more or resolved,
rather than just forgotten by the writers.

Jeff
_____________________________________________________________________
"Ask me about facts and I will answer       Jeff Abbott
everything to your satisfaction. And        abbott@mobius.mcc.aca.com
to hell with the irrelevancies!"            MCC ACT Program 
- Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov        Austin, Texas
_____________________________________________________________________

On WGBH 90.9FM last night in Boston, a show called Fresh Air was on 
and they interviewed Ray Wise.  She (the interviewer) asked about how
they all found out who killed Laura Palmer.
He said (this is not quoted--I was in my car and am writing this from 
memory) It was sometime last summer. Frost and Lynch asked Ben, Ray
and Maddie/Laura to come up. (this is sort of a quote---We walked into
a darkened room and there was no furniture in it.  We sat on the floor
crosslegged.  Frost (or Lynch) put his hand on my knee and said "
" It was you. It was always you."  
Ray said he was very upset because he liked his character and he didn't
want it to be him.  He said he felt better when he found out that he
did it due to the posession and he didn't feel so responsible.

Ray said it was all pretty secret.  Their scripts were numbered so that
if one got in the wrong hands, they would know whose it was.  They even
went so far as to shoot several real scenes with alternating conclusions
so that the camera crews etc wouldn't know which was going to air.

Ray also said he was originally interviewed for Sheriff Trumans part but
they liked him for Leland better.

Let's see... what else.... She asked about his "barking" in that last
episode (of his).  He said that was his idea and he felt it all went 
with the "woods motif"

I was sitting in my parked car listening to this when they took a break
and I simply had to go into a store that was about to close.  If anyone
heard this program and listened to what was said after the break, please
let me know.

Susan

In article <1627@mobius.ACA.MCC.COM> abbott@mobius.UUCP (Jeff Abbott) writes:
> >In article <1990Dec13.143624.22706@watserv1.waterloo.edu> alternat@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Ann Hodgins) writes:
>> >>In article <1618@mobius.ACA.MCC.COM> abbott@mobius.ACA.MCC.COM (Jeff Abbott) writes:
>>> >>>Two questions for the general contemplation of the newsgroup:
>>> >>>I think it is out of character for Bobby to give up his vendetta
>>> >>>against James (although he certainly has his hands full at the
>>> >>>Johnson Nursing Home :-) ).
>> >> 
>> >>I don't think so.  The diary establishes that Bobby is basically a good,
>> >>simple kid.  I think he struck out at James because he needed to blame
>> >>someone for Laura's death. He had loved Laura for years. Now his life
>> >>is so crammed with incident, he has no time to hold any grudges, even if
>> >>he were so inclined.
> >
> >I agree with you up to a point, Ann. Bobby is NOT an evil person,
> >and he is portrayed in the diary as a good, simple kid (even though
> >he does, according to Laura, commit manslaughter by shooting a guy).
> >However, planting cocaine in someone's bike goes far beyond simple
> >anger. We have been led to believe that Bobby blindly HATES James.
> >I hope that this antagonism is either brought out more or resolved,
> >rather than just forgotten by the writers.
> >
Oh yah.  
I forgot about the manslaughter (self-defence really) and the framing.
Guess I'm a bit too tolerant where cute guys are concerned.
 
a.h.

In article <1618@mobius.ACA.MCC.COM> abbott@mobius.ACA.MCC.COM (Jeff Abbott) writes:
> >Two questions for the general contemplation of the newsgroup:
> >I think it is out of character for Bobby to give up his vendetta
> >against James (although he certainly has his hands full at the
> >Johnson Nursing Home :-) ).
 
I don't think so.  The diary establishes that Bobby is basically a good,
simple kid.  I think he struck out at James because he needed to blame
someone for Laura's death. He had loved Laura for years. Now his life
is so crammed with incident, he has no time to hold any grudges, even if
he were so inclined.
> >

a.h.

God knows I've mix-mastered a few metaphors in my day, but I'd like
to lift my glass in a buttered toast to the person who came up with
an "eye jaundiced with dyspepsia." Hip hip....<shouts of an appreciative
net> HOORAY!!!!

And that concludes our broadcast day.
-- Jeff Davis davis@keats.ca.uky.edu Where we are here, Gerrit said, is the backside of nowhere....

In article <1990Dec13.181606.17807@athena.mit.edu> august@athena.mit.edu (Susan K. Raisty) writes:
> >Did anyone notice that Donna was smoking at the wake?
> >In front of HER MOM?  
So?

> >It seems like there are way too many smokers on this show, 
> >including all the high school kids (sans James/drip)....
> >
> >Leo, Shelly, Donna, Bobby, Audrey, Josie... I know there are more...

I'm curious as to why this bothers you, Susan. Do you feel 
smoking shouldn't be portrayed on TV?

Lots of Lynch characters smoke. . .check out all the closeups
of lit cigarettes in "Wild at Heart". . .
_____________________________________________________________________
"Ask me about facts and I will answer       Jeff Abbott
everything to your satisfaction. And        abbott@mobius.mcc.aca.com
to hell with the irrelevancies!"            MCC ACT Program 
- Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov        Austin, Texas
_____________________________________________________________________

Lance, I got your note about audio files.  I wrote a lengthy 
reply but the mail routing didn't work.  The long and short of
it is I only expect to be posting soundfiles for a few days
more, and I'm sorry that they cause you inconvenience.

Greg
****************************************************************
* Greg Sandell (sandell@ils.nwu.edu)          Evanston, IL USA *
* Institute for the Learning Sciences, Northwestern University *
****************************************************************

I've read here that an explanation for the naval ball-bouncers was written
into the script, but left on the cutting-room floor.

I'm skeptical.

No explanations have been offered for any of the other Great Northern guest
themes--the Barbershop quartets, the plaid-skirt clad girls, etc.  Admittedly
these groups were much more conventional, but there have been absolutely no
references to any of them.  (The Icelanders don't count.)

Also, the first shot of these bouncers is clearly established so that we hear 
the noise first, wonder what it is, and then discover that it is all of these 
uniformed people bouncing balls.  The whole scene is set up to leave us with a
"What the heck?" feeling.  Why would they burden us with an explanation when
they can leave us hanging?

Does anyone know what the snipped story of the spheriod slinging sailors was 
supposed to be?
--
"Jelly donuts?"  "Harry, that goes without saying." -- Truman and Cooper
-- =============================================================================== Malcolm Austin -- maus@fid.morgan.com #include "disclaimer.h"

In article <5070@atexnet.UUCP> dawson@epps.kodak.com (Keith Dawson) writes:

> >The dwarf (=Leland) says "She's my cousin." If you take the "she" at 
> >this moment to stand for Maddie, then Leland speaks truth, because 
> >Laura's cousin is also his cousin -- once removed.
> >--
> >-->Keith
> >dawson@epps.kodak.com

No, actually Laura's cousin is Leland's NIECE (or nephew).

My understanding is that, for the function ShesMyCousin(X,Y,N,M):
"X is Y's Nth cousin, Mth removed" is that N=number of generations back you 
go to find a pair of siblings, and M is the number of generations that 
separate X and Y.  But I could be wrong.

In any event, if Maddy is the daughter of a sister of Leland or Sarah, she
is still Leland's niece, not cousin.  This is mildly confirmed by Maddy's
continually addressing Leland as "Uncle Leland".  Although this form of
address is often used by children for older family members (and friends)
who are not technical "uncles", it would be odd for Maddy to continue to use
the term as an adult.
--
"Hank, you leave the creative thinking to the brothers Horne.  You are a
  bicep.  Relax until we say 'flex'." -- Benjamin Horne
-- =============================================================================== Malcolm Austin -- maus@fid.morgan.com #include "disclaimer.h"

In article <16041@chopin.udel.edu> savvy@chopin.udel.edu (Michael S Savett) writes:
> >
> > I don't think any TP videotapes are likely to be released at this
> >point, except for perhaps the first episode (a la 'Moonlighting.')
> > The reason I say this is because networks/production companies are
> >reluctant to lose the sydnication market for their show by releasing
> >videotapes before the show ends.
> > On the other hand, I would like to see these shows released myself...

Is Twin Peaks likely to be syndicated?

I would be surprised, given the paucity of episodes, and their connectedness.
Have DALLAS, FALCON CREST, or other prime-time soaps ever been syndicated?
I would think Twin Peaks would be a hard sell to an independant station.

I wouldn't be surprised if, assuming TP is cancelled this year, we don't see
some sort of Deluxe Collector's Gold-Plated Director's Cut Special Edition of
Twin Peaks come out on tape or LaserDisk in a couple of years.  I doubt they'll
cut it up (who would buy only one?), although they might release the premiere
alone, as you said, or perhaps put together an edited version--sort of like 
THE GODFATHER SAGA, that touched on the high points, and left out some of the
sub-plots.
-- =============================================================================== Malcolm Austin -- maus@fid.morgan.com #include "disclaimer.h"

In article <8bLGZCG00juk9TT1Ag@cs.cmu.edu> Jon.Webb@CS.CMU.EDU writes:
> >I think the final scene depicts the spirit of Bob after leaving Leland. 
> >It travels through the forest, then enters the light (maybe the same
> >light as Leland, maybe another) and is reborn as an owl.  The image of
> >the owl seemed threatening, suggesting that it is Bob, not some good
> >spirit.

I basically agree with what followed (in the above quoted article), but
disagree on the final scene and what it meant.  I think the scene was partly
metaphorical -- the point of view was that of a small rodent, but not a Bob-
possessed rodent or other special rodent -- just a normal small rodent.  And
the owl was Bob, now back in owl-form after leaving Leland.  The owl was
descending to capture and eat the rodent -- just the way Bob captures and eats
souls.

The crashed car may or may not be significant.  A lot of Twin Peaks reflects
real life -- some things that seem significant aren't, and some things that
don't seem significant are.  Just like in real life.

-Pete Zakel
 (phz@cadence.com or ..!{hpda,versatc,apollo,ucbcad,uunet}!cadence!phz)

WRT sound files... does anyone know how to convert them to 
Sun Sparcstation sound files?  Quite a number of us don't use
Macintoshes (or Suns for that matter)...  and would be interested in 
getting some sounds for that...

BBC

In article <1990Dec11.025140.23608@watserv1.waterloo.edu> alternat@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Ann Hodgins) writes:
> >Wondering why I enjoyed the latest episode so very much I
> >realized that it was an extremely, subtly pro-woman episode.
> > 
..............
> > 
> >It was nice to see a more enlightened psychiatrist, Jacobi,
> >helping Nadine's recovery.

While the general trend of your posting was good to hear, I think
you missed the boat with Jacobi. He had an affair with his female patient,
in a classic case of the (male-dominated) psychiatry controlling women and
trying to tell them what to be and how to feel.  Plus, he is married/involved
with his Polynesian Island-Doll, a submissive, quiet yet always-there-with
the-palm-frond, drink or massage slave if ever there was one.
Jacobi is a feminist's nightmare, though he may be doing the 
right thing with Nadine. 
jim

--
James "Rebel Without A Clue" Deane          Institute for Astronomy
deane@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu                2680 Woodlawn Dr
"My God, it's full of *s!"                  Honolulu, HI 96822
Grad Student/Astronomer/Diver/Mac Technician

Hello, just some gossip. I heard today that Diane Keaton (ala, Mr.
Goodbar) has be contracted to direct an episode of T.P. Could be
interesting, maybe we will get to see the whiny side of Bob?

In article <1990Dec13.232207.19748@cadence.com>, phz@cadence.com (Pete
Zakel) writes:
|> The crashed car may or may not be significant.  A lot of Twin Peaks
reflects
|> real life -- some things that seem significant aren't, and some
things that
|> don't seem significant are.  Just like in real life.

Then again, maybe it is significant.  At Leland's we saw the mayor and
his brother arguing and fighting (and I don't rememner ever seeing
these
two characters before, but I missed the first season).  Anyway, as
Truman
is explaining to Cooper that these two have been fighting for fifty
years
or so, he mentions something to the effect that it was supposed to have
started over "some old flame in a rumbleseat".

I seem to remember the wrecked car having a rumbleseat.
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Ken Hughes  (hughes@sol.csee.usf.edu) |  "I prayed for the death of
Heather
FT-Ph D student, PT-ex-sysadm      |   Chandler many times, and I felt
Dept of Comp Sci and Eng      |   bad every time, but I kept on
University of South Florida      |   doing it anyway..." _Heathers_
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

In article <2375@maus.Morgan.COM> maus@Morgan.COM (Malcolm Austin) writes:
> >Is Twin Peaks likely to be syndicated?

My guess would be YES, unless Lynch/Frost have some problem with it.

> >I would be surprised, given the paucity of episodes, and their connectedness.
> >Have DALLAS, FALCON CREST, or other prime-time soaps ever been syndicated?
> >I would think Twin Peaks would be a hard sell to an independant station.

I shouldn't think it'd be a hard sell at all, unless the price was
inflated.  (With their production costs, it might be.)  It might be a
terrific success in syndication.

Now, there are two stories to syndication: pre- and post-cable.  Before
cable, syndication meant selling to individual TV stations all over the
world -- both independents and affiliates.  Those stations would pay
your fee, program your product and pocket the ad money.  Most stations
did and do operate on standard TV "seasons" like the networks.  The
preferred approach with syndicated reruns is to "strip" a show into a
timeslot, e.g., run M*A*S*H every weekday at 5pm.  But to do this for a
*season* means that the show itself must have run for *5 seasons*.  If
it only lasted a couple of seasons, no matter HOW popular it was, it's
hard for a station to buy the reruns and still put together a schedule,
although I have seen it tried.

This is why semi-hit shows used to desperately try for a fifth season,
even if the ratings sucked towards the end.  Once you're strippable it's
gravy time in syndication.

Now, however, the situation has changed with cable.  Programming there
is much more flexible; with no network affiliation cable channels can
operate on shorter cycles if they wish.  An example (close to my heart)
is SPENSER:FOR HIRE, which only ran three seasons and thus looked doomed
from a syndie standpoint.  Lo and behold, LIFETIME picked it up and
strips it weekdays at 10:30am and weeknights at midnight, plus one show
on Saturday afternoon.  They'll run through the canon in a few months,
but so what?  Their target audience of tapeheads, soapheads and shutins
doesn't care about orderly TV seasons anyway.  Loop forever or start a
new show.

If TP can last three seasons, I expect they'll be on cable somewhere.

> >I wouldn't be surprised if, assuming TP is cancelled this year, we don't see
> >some sort of Deluxe Collector's Gold-Plated Director's Cut Special Edition of
> >Twin Peaks come out on tape or LaserDisk in a couple of years.  

Agreed.

In article <16085@chopin.udel.edu> savvy@chopin.udel.edu (Michael S Savett) writes:
> >  In the 12/12/90 edition of the Wilmington News Journal, it noted that
> >Diane Keaton (Mr. Mom) will be directing a Twin Peaks episode scheduled
> >to air in February 1991.

In article <22154@well.sf.ca.us> rchao@well.sf.ca.us (Robert Chao) writes:
> >Actress Diane Keaton will be directing a Twin Peaks episode which will
> >air in February. Source: San Francisco Chronicle, 12/12/1990. In this
> >episode, "Big Ed will cook for Nadine." Have no idea what that means.

In article <1158600136@cdp> ddulmage@cdp.UUCP writes:
> >Hello, just some gossip. I heard today that Diane Keaton (ala, Mr.
> >Goodbar) has be contracted to direct an episode of T.P. Could be
> >interesting, maybe we will get to see the whiny side of Bob?


Gee I dunno, is there some kind of pattern here?
------------------------------------------------


-- Anthrax Rampant in Kirghizia: Oo*oO Tom Neff Izvestia Comment -- TASS * *O* * tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM

In article <EbOCkF_00VID83Tkwg@andrew.cmu.edu> rk3h+@andrew.cmu.edu (Robert J. Knapp) writes:
> >I really doubt if any one cares, and I'm probably breaking all kinds of
> >nettiquette, but I just wanted to post about why I'm de-subscribing to
> >this bboard.

For those who may NOT be leaving:

 1. It's not a 'bboard'.

> >IT'S GOTTEN SILLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 2. Good newsgroups sometimes are.

> >I don't care if there is a little continutiy error about the Major's
> >marshmellow!!  I just watch the show for the emotions it causes in me.

 3. But are not apparently willing to extend the same approach to netnews!

> >Of course the 12/1/90 episode was contrived, IT IS FICTION! Think about
> >it any novel you read is CONTRIVED!!!! It was created in the mind of a
> >human being who bends the story so it comes out the way he/she wants it
> >to! 

 4. Not all fiction is contrived.  Although most fiction does come out
the way someone 'wants it to,' that way does not have to be contrived.
Contrived in this context doesn't simply mean intentional!  It means 
artificial to the exclusion of believability.  TP's weaker episodes have
been guilt of that.  The better ones aren't.

> >     It's getting to the point that people are looking for meaning in
> >every little thing that is protrayed on the screen.........face it
> >people LYNCH LIKES IMAGES!!!!!!!!!!!!!   PLAIN AND SIMPLE!!!!!!!!  

Nobody is looking for 'meaning' in the continuity errors reported here.
We talk about them because this newsgroup is for talking about the
series.  Talking needn't be confined to asking about ultimate meanings.

Also keep in mind that the most annoying glitches and zigzags seem to
occur when someone OTHER than Lynch is at the helm.  It pays to read
those credits!

> >At the same time, he struggling to keep the show on the air, that means
> >catering, occasionally, to people who want a plot!!!!  {NO, I DON'T WANT
> >ONE!!!!  I LIKED THE FIRST SCENCES OF BAGDAD CAFE MORE THEN THE REST OF
> >THe MOVIE!!!! {No, its not Lynch, but the first scene is just images}}

The first scenes concisely and humorously show what's-her-name, the fat
German woman, being dumped by her husband and trudging towards the truck
stop.  It's not JUST images, though it is nicely weird and atmospheric.
There is NO wasted motion.  Watch it again sometime.  There is a
difference between imagination and carelessness.

> >Flame away, I WON'T BE HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But the discussion will, and that's what the newsgroup's about.

> >Rob "Sometimes a bouncing ball is just a boucing ball" Knapp

Now if we can explain what a 'boucing' ball is... ACES!

-- France is a country where the money falls apart and }{ Tom Neff you can't tear the toilet paper. -- Billy Wilder }{ tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM

In article <1632@mobius.ACA.MCC.COM> abbott@mobius.UUCP (Jeff Abbott) writes:
> >James is the perfect example of a character than has stagnated
> >rather than grown. ...

James seems to me to be one of the cardboard 'type' characters in
Lynch's vision; he's just there to stand around in his leather jacket
and pout, roaring off on the Harley as needed.  Some of the more
pedestrian talents on the team may have decided to 'flesh him out' but
the trap is that his role is a walking invitation for dumb cliches!
He needs some WEIRDNESS (there's that word again) and he has nuuuune.

> >                       His leaving Donna in the woods was the
> >ultimate, in my opinion, of mishandling a character.

Unless we remember that he did essentially the same thing to Laura in
the woods the night she was killed.  The difference, if we decide to
believe his story completely, is that Laura ran off under her own steam
instead of begging him to stay like Donna did.  But the image of ridin'
away from the wo-mun he luuuvs is consistent.  Of course, as created by
these placeholders it's just another dumb pointless incident instead of
a mysterious interlude, but whoever had the idea in the first place
probably thought it could be made to look good.

I keep reading that Russ was in West Side Story (like Richard Beymer). I know 
that RB played Tony ("te adoro, Anton") but who was RT?

-- ===================================== "...unimaginative, timid, Hazel Sydeserff lacking in initiative, Centre for Speech Technology Research spineless, easily dominated, University of Edinburgh no sense of humour, tedious 80, South Bridge company and irrepressibly drab EDINBURGH and awful. And whereas in most EH1 1HN professions these would be considerable drawbacks, in speech technology they are a positive boon." MPFC

In article <27810006@hprpcdhprpcd.HP.COM> kenp@hprpcdhprpcd.HP.COM (Ken Pomaranski) writes:
> >The White Horse stands for COCAINE!
> >
perhaps yes, perhaps no...  those who remember the 1960s will know that 'horse'
was the slang for HEROINE
backup ref.:  phrase from opening sequence of Peggy Lipton's *first* tv series
--> '... pure horse, BOOK HIM...'; if further information is needed, the reader
is too young to remember the '60s and all is lost....

> >Someone who is "riding the white horse" is high on cocaine or some other
> >powder drug.
> >
reasonable '80s and beyond update to the above.......

Walt K.
> >kp

Last weekend Dana Ashbrook (Bobby Briggs) was on Arsenio.  I gotta say I
was not impressed.  He seemed rather giggly and unfocused.  He also
wasted his time by attempting to speak about Arsenio and what Arsenio
does in his spare time, then speaking about himself and what HE does in
his spare time.

He spoke very little about the show itself.  He did mention that the
interview with Lynch (when he was applying for the role) was atypical in
that Lynch just wanted to talk about Dana's views and likes/dislikes
rather than his acting experience pe se.  In an interview with Kimmy
Robertson (Lucy) which I read recently, Kimmy said the same thing about
her interview with Lynch.  Kimmy seemed much more enthusiastic about the
show however, saying that she was thrilled to be part of such a
phenomenon which had really caught fire.  She said in real life her
voice is not that high-pitched and squeaky.  She also thinks that her
role will evolve into something much larger.

-Joanne

ULTIMATE SPOILER

One of the things that makes TP unique and 

interesting is that it is, to a great extent, self-

consciously about the question of what it is about.


The continued revelation of what kind of world TP is 

keeps me coming back for more, but it worries me.  I 

find that I become intrigued by new formulas in TV 

shows while they're being worked out.  While a 

cutting-edge show is still finding itself it toys with 

the boundaries of the art.  But once it finds itself 

and settles down (and limits itself to a bounded 

psychic pigeonhole), I lose a lot of interest.


How long can the shape of the series, its premises, 

continue to evolve?  How long can the strip-tease 

last?  How long until we have solved the real 

mystery - the mystery of just what the heck kinda 

place this is?  When do we find out whether TP is about 

soul-sucking aliens from the fourth dimension, Angels, 

Knights Templar, telepaths, Rosicrucians, 

time-travelers, Satanists, quantum physics, Masons, 

black holes, all/none of the above?  And what happens 

then?  Must TP evolve into something ever-funnier?  

Ever-freakier?  Ever-more evil?  More beautiful?  More 

mystical?  More magical?  More bizarre?



Are there no limits or must it ultimately stagnate?  Is 

the answer that it must stagnate because of the 

limitations of an open-ended TV series as a medium and 

the fact (?) that you can only go so far out?  Is it 

squandering its capital by revealing itself?  Or can its 

creators continue to create metaphysical twists and turns 

that keep the ball in play indefinitely?  I hope so.  

Magic covers a lot of turf.



P.S. - The donuts are not what they seem.

I really doubt if any one cares, and I'm probably breaking all kinds of
nettiquette, but I just wanted to post about why I'm de-subscribing to
this bboard.


IT'S GOTTEN SILLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't care if there is a little continutiy error about the Major's
marshmellow!!  I just watch the show for the emotions it causes in me.
Of course the 12/1/90 episode was contrived, IT IS FICTION! Think about
it any novel you read is CONTRIVED!!!! It was created in the mind of a
human being who bends the story so it comes out the way he/she wants it
to! It's getting to the point that people are looking for meaning in
every little thing that is protrayed on the screen.........face it
people LYNCH LIKES IMAGES!!!!!!!!!!!!!   PLAIN AND SIMPLE!!!!!!!!  
At the same time, he struggling to keep the show on the air, that means
catering, occasionally, to people who want a plot!!!!  {NO, I DON'T WANT
ONE!!!!  I LIKED THE FIRST SCENCES OF BAGDAD CAFE MORE THEN THE REST OF
THe MOVIE!!!! {No, its not Lynch, but the first scene is just images}}

Flame away, I WON'T BE HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rob "Sometimes a bouncing ball is just a boucing ball" Knapp

In article <50080002@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com> kalstein@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Michael Kalstein) writes:
> >Wasn't there a "Peggy Lipton" on Mod Squad years ago?  Is this the same
> >woman?
> >
yes and yes.

she has certainly 'aged well'; hasn't she??

Walt K.

A new morning show debuted this week on Austin 98.1 FM -

"The Bob and Mike Show" !!

Needless to say, I immediately reprogrammed my car radio buttons,
so as to avoid their evil influence. . .whew, what a narrow
escape. . . .:-)

Jeff

_____________________________________________________________________
"Ask me about facts and I will answer       Jeff Abbott
everything to your satisfaction. And        abbott@mobius.mcc.aca.com
to hell with the irrelevancies!"            MCC ACT Program 
- Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov        Austin, Texas
_____________________________________________________________________

pray, forgive me this this is repeat information but,

I was recently speaking to a friend of mine who is an active pagan
and has done a bit of mystical research. I asked him if he had seen
any references to "the White Lodge" and he said that some circles
believe the White Lodge to be a group of advanced spirits that protect
humanity, the spirits may not ever have lived on this plane of
existance.

Toodles, Gideon.

In article <1990Dec12.134737.8613@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> svihla@evax0.eng.fsu.edu writes:
> >I still think James was a self-centered yahoo for leaving Donna alone.
> >Remember the reaction of the town after Laura's body was found?
> >Curfews and paranoia were the order of the day.  James finds out Maddy
> >was killed and leaves his ostensible true love crying in the woods,
> >pleading with him not to leave.  If he cares enough about his friends
> >to freak out over their demise, he should also care enough about Donna
> >to take her to a safe place.  I think the scene was another opportunity
> >for the writers to show us poor James, trapped in a world he never
> >made. It didn't ring true, at least in the eyes of this beholder.

James is the perfect example of a character than has stagnated
rather than grown. The writers have done nothing with him, except
for making him into a bumbling Hardy Boy and putting him into a 
predictable triangle with Donna and Maddy. I don't think the writers
have a clue as to what to do with him. Compare his stagnation with
the growth in the past two seasons of characters like Cooper,
Catherine, and Audrey. His leaving Donna in the woods was the
ultimate, in my opinion, of mishandling a character.

IMHO, the writers should either nuke James or give him a 
completely new storyline, sans Donna, that will make something
of his character (perhaps something involving his abusive
mother, if James Marshall can carry the heavier acting weight).

Jeff
_____________________________________________________________________
"Ask me about facts and I will answer       Jeff Abbott
everything to your satisfaction. And        abbott@mobius.mcc.aca.com
to hell with the irrelevancies!"            MCC ACT Program 
- Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov        Austin, Texas
_____________________________________________________________________

There was a Twin Peaks reference on last night's episode
"Doctor, Doctor". The main chracter, Mike, is standing
in a log cabin (having decided to quit medicine and get
back to nature). He is talking into a hand-held recorder
(a la Cooper) and says: "it's 8:30 in the woods, and I'm
left alone with my thoughts, the foremost being. . . .
who killed Laura Palmer?"

<he pauses and studio audience laughs uproariously>

Mike then says: "And who really cares?"

<studio audience laughs uproariously>

Interesting to see shows other than "Northern Exposure" referring
to Twin Peaks. . .

Jeff

_____________________________________________________________________
"Ask me about facts and I will answer       Jeff Abbott
everything to your satisfaction. And        abbott@mobius.mcc.aca.com
to hell with the irrelevancies!"            MCC ACT Program 
- Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov        Austin, Texas
_____________________________________________________________________

In article <10651@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu> deane@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu (Rebel Without A Clue) writes:
> >In article <1990Dec11.025140.23608@watserv1.waterloo.edu> alternat@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Ann Hodgins) writes:
>> >>It was nice to see a more enlightened psychiatrist, Jacobi,
>> >>helping Nadine's recovery.
> >
> >While the general trend of your posting was good to hear, I think
> >you missed the boat with Jacobi. He had an affair with his female patient,
> >in a classic case of the (male-dominated) psychiatry controlling women and
> >trying to tell them what to be and how to feel.  Plus, he is married/involved
> >with his Polynesian Island-Doll, a submissive, quiet yet always-there-with
> >the-palm-frond, drink or massage slave if ever there was one.
> >Jacobi is a feminist's nightmare, though he may be doing the 
> >right thing with Nadine. 
> >jim
> >
Hey wait a minute, what affair with what female patient?
I don't think he was involved with Laura. Laura adopted the attitude
that he was interested in her sexually as a way of distancing herself
from him and feeling that she had power of over him. Also it could
have been father-transference 
but we have no evidence that that was not part of her defence against 
admitting to herself and others that her father abused her. Jacobi said
that she erected a wall around her secrets that he was not able to break
and flirtating with many men was part of that wall.
 
Admittedly, the Island Wife looks bad. But she may not be so quiet 
in her own home when her husband is not very ill.  Besides, I hate to
be too judgemental about people's romantic preferences, it is such a
complex topic.
 
Mind you, I don't consider Jacobi a perfect psychiatrist, just better
than many in a very sexist profession.  I read in the news yesterday about
a psychiatrist who sexually molested a patient, was found
guilty and was *not* disbarred. Unbelievable! But it goes to show.
 
ann h.

In article <EbOCkF_00VID83Tkwg@andrew.cmu.edu> rk3h+@andrew.cmu.edu (Robert J. Knapp) writes:
> >I really doubt if any one cares, and I'm probably breaking all kinds of
> >nettiquette, but I just wanted to post about why I'm de-subscribing to
> >this bboard.
> > [This gentleman's unfavorable opinion of the group deleted]
> >Flame away, I WON'T BE HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's too bad. You contributed so much. BTW, who were you?

Jeff
_____________________________________________________________________
"Ask me about facts and I will answer       Jeff Abbott
everything to your satisfaction. And        abbott@mobius.mcc.aca.com
to hell with the irrelevancies!"            MCC ACT Program 
- Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov        Austin, Texas
_____________________________________________________________________

On a local radio station in Los Angeles, they got Jack Nance, Kimmy
Robertson, Dana Ashbrook, and Kyle MacLachlan together to sing a
twist on the "12 Days of Christmas."  I thought it was great, so
I'll post the last refrain (all 12 days) with the singer's name to
the right of the line he/she sung:

On the 12th day of Christmas, my true love gave to me,
12 Cups of Coffee,[Jack]
11 Cherry Pies,[Kimmy]
10 Drooling Leos,[Dana]
 9 Owls Lurking,[Jack]
 8 Dancing Midgets,[Kyle]
 7 One-Armed Men,[Dana]
 6 Fish in a Percolator,[Jack]
 5 Jelly Donuts,[Kimmy]
 4 Talking Logs,[Kyle]
 3 Possessed Souls,[Jack]
 2 Secret Diaries,[Dana]
 and a Body, Dead, Wrapped in Plastic.[Jack]


Twin Peaks characters show up on this radio station quite a bit.  They've
had Catherine Coulson, Ray Wise, Dana Ashbrook, Kyle MacLachlan, Kimmy
Robertson, Jack Nance, and probably a few others I'm forgetting.  On
Monday, they're having BOB himself -- Frank Silva.

Brett
--
bvickers@ics.uci.edu |       "We cannot decide whether that which
brett@ucippro.bitnet |        we call truth is really truth or
_____________________|        whether it merely appears that way
                              to us."      - Heinrich von Kleist

/ hpopd:alt.tv.twin-peaks / ST00038@auvm.auvm.edu /  3:04 am  Dec 14, 1990 /

> > Personally, I consider it the television show of the intelligentsia. Not that
> > people who don't watch it are ignorant.  It just seems that those who really
> > despise it have either (1) very large insecurity problems, (2) a shallow view
> > of reality, or (3) just don't understand what's going on.

I like TP because :- (i) of the emotions displayed in the first few episodes;
(ii) it is "deep" ie. structured rather than flat; (iii) I often feel the
exhilaration of being drawn towards an understanding of what it's all about.

Richard.

/ hpopd:alt.tv.twin-peaks / alternat@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Ann Hodgins) /  2:59 pm  Dec 13, 1990 /

> > Actually, I don't think it matters much if Nadine actually dropped out
> > to marry Ed.  Her  main problems are social rather than academic. Her
> > feelings in high school  that she was just a homely little mouse 
> > who sees herself as lucky to get * any*  of Big Ed's attention - that's the 
> > problem!
> > But it does not help that she has no career to boost her self-esteem.

Perhaps Lynch/Frost could send her on an Assertiveness Course? That way she
might (after much hard work) be self-sufficient in the self-worth department.

Richard.
"I can't die yet. I'm still working on it."

In article <EbOCkF_00VID83Tkwg@andrew.cmu.edu>, rk3h+@andrew.cmu.edu (Robert J. Knapp) writes:
> > I really doubt if any one cares, and I'm probably breaking all kinds of
> > nettiquette, but I just wanted to post about why I'm de-subscribing to
> > this bboard.
> > 
> > 
> > IT'S GOTTEN SILLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > 
> > I don't care if there is a little continutiy error about the Major's
> > marshmellow!!  I just watch the show for the emotions it causes in me.
> > Of course the 12/1/90 episode was contrived, IT IS FICTION! Think about
> > it any novel you read is CONTRIVED!!!! It was created in the mind of a
> > human being who bends the story so it comes out the way he/she wants it
> > to! It's getting to the point that people are looking for meaning in
> > every little thing that is protrayed on the screen.........face it
> > people LYNCH LIKES IMAGES!!!!!!!!!!!!!   PLAIN AND SIMPLE!!!!!!!!  
> > At the same time, he struggling to keep the show on the air, that means
> > catering, occasionally, to people who want a plot!!!!  {NO, I DON'T WANT
> > ONE!!!!  I LIKED THE FIRST SCENCES OF BAGDAD CAFE MORE THEN THE REST OF
> > THe MOVIE!!!! {No, its not Lynch, but the first scene is just images}}
> > 
> > Flame away, I WON'T BE HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > 
> > Rob "Sometimes a bouncing ball is just a boucing ball" Knapp

I totally agree.  You people are taking all of the fun out of it.

--Cool Bean
-- **This is not cultural.

If I am remembering this correctly, didn't Truman and/or Cooper threaten
both Bobby and Mike that night at the sherrif station that if anything happened
to James they would be held responsilbe?  This could be the reason that Bobby
just "forgot" about his hatred for James.




Melissa

Los Angeles rock radio station KROQ aired yesterday
morning a Twin Peaks version of the "12 Days of
Christmas" carol sung by cast members of TP.
The song is included in a Christmas album being
produced by the station that will be distributed
locally.

Basically, it goes like this:

On the 12th day of Xmas my sweetheart gave to me,

       12 Cups of Coffee         - Pete
       11 Cherry Pies            - Lucy
       10 Drooling Leo           - ?
        9 Owls Lurking           - ?
          (Dianne, this morning I had a strange dream...)
        8 Dancing Midgets        - Coop
        7 One-armed Men          - ?
        6 Fish in a Percolator   - Pete
        5 Jelly Doughnuts        - Lucy
          (Dianne, on the 4th day of Christmas...)
        4 Talking Logs           - Coop
        3 Possessed Souls        - Leland?
        2 Secret Diaries         - ?
       and a Body...Dead....Wraaapped in Plaaaastiic. - Pete
       Amen... Amen.             - Johnny Horne

It was kinda cute. I loved the way the lines were sung
(or in the case of Coop's: "recited") by the cast members.
I hope it gets played regularly.

Also, next Monday, Frank Silva, aka BOB, will be a guest
in the morning program. I can't wait to tune in.

I wonder how they celebrate Christmas in Twin Peaks?

-Mig



-- =========================================================================== Mig Gomez mig@beach.csulb.edu CSULB Main Library Computer Lab mig@aardvark.cse.csulb.edu

Since I've been bombarded with so much mail asking me what radio
station it is that Twin Peaks characters frequent, I'll post it here
instead of emailing.

The radio station is KROQ, 106.7 FM in Los Angeles.  And Twin Peaks
characters tend to show up irregularly on the morning show, anywhere
from 7 to 10 am.

Can't wait to here BOB on Monday...

--
bvickers@ics.uci.edu |       "We cannot decide whether that which
brett@ucippro.bitnet |        we call truth is really truth or
_____________________|        whether it merely appears that way
                              to us."      - Heinrich von Kleist

In article <1990Dec14.091057@cstr.ed.ac.uk>, hazel@cstr.ed.ac.uk (Hazel Sydeserff) writes...
> >I keep reading that Russ was in West Side Story (like Richard Beymer). I know 
> >that RB played Tony ("te adoro, Anton") but who was RT?
> > 
> >-- 
> >=====================================          "...unimaginative, timid, 
> >Hazel Sydeserff                                lacking in initiative,
> >Centre for Speech Technology Research          spineless, easily dominated,
> >University of Edinburgh                        no sense of humour, tedious 
> >80, South Bridge                               company and irrepressibly drab
> >EDINBURGH                                      and awful. And whereas in most
> >EH1 1HN       professions these would be
> >                                               considerable drawbacks, in
> >                                               speech technology they are a
> >                                               positive boon."
> >                                                                        MPFC

Russ Tamblyn played Tony's best friend - Riff? Ruff? - who gets killed
by George Chakiris's character a la Mercutio in R&J.

It is my sad duty to inform the net that Agent
Maguire is leaving the week next for Australia - sigh.
Agent Maguire, or Diarmuid, was the fella who did the
following things on the net this year:

1.  he figured out that Senor Droolcup was played by an
actor from the classic John Wayne vehicle `The Searchers.'
In that movie (said by Lucas to have been one of the influences on
the Star Wars series) the Senor Droolcup actor said many
of the same lines that he says to Agent Cooper in the first
show of the series this season. You remember the interminable
silences, the thumbs up signals, the I remember you's, etc.

2.  Diarmuid is the fellow who took the now famous visit to 
his local library and told us all about Northwest Indian lore
and the Bookwus.  I had the pleasure of writing up his stuff,
but he did the work.  For those of you new to the net, this
was a post this past September in which Diarmuid put together
items from Nanaido Indian beliefs and images on the show - 
including ambivalent meanings of owls, the evil spirit of 
Bookwus with the owl mask and rituals involving forests
during contests between good and evil spirits.  It was a
wonderful post.

3.  Diarmuid later developed a view that the show operated
on a variation of scissors, stone, paper games from our youth.
The equivalents were forests, fire and water.  Meaning that the
show was built around a threatened forest (and its spirits),
the destructive power of fire and the cleansing effects of
water.  Let's just say that Diarmuid was not surprised when
Bob left Leland after the sprinklers just happened to come
on in the jail cell.  Other illustrations are how Josie/Catherine
are saving the forest (Ghostwood) from Ben (one of the fiery
people - `We gotta burn something...').  

4.  He still argues that Ben shoulda killed Laura, but
concedes finally that Leland did indeed do the deed.

5.  Other missed predictions:  he thought the show would make
a big deal out of a trial of Leland or Ben - wrong.
He thought there would be more cowboy/western imagery connected
to the circuit judge.  And he still thinks that leo will be the
next host of BOB - but worries about Major Briggs.

6.  Diarmuid and I both believe that Lynch also operates off
of traditional Catholic sensibility such that evil is real
and love heals all wounds.  And that there is a fundamental separation
between the material and the spiritual.  One neat illustration of
this is the James character.  Although James and Donna are played by
piss-poor actors it really means something when these teenage idiots
breakup, or change partners.  When James prefers Donna to Maddie,
this damns Maddie, leaving her to BOB.  Ditto Laura on her fateful
night and makes Donna now vulnerable.  

7.  Diarmuid is outta here next Wednesday.  Give him a fond good-bye
and Happy Holidays.

Hillard Pouncy

In article <00941216.86525420@BINAH.CC.BRANDEIS.EDU>, vargo@BINAH.CC.BRANDEIS.EDU writes:
> > On WGBH 90.9FM last night in Boston, a show called Fresh Air was on 
> > and they interviewed Ray Wise.  She (the interviewer) asked about how
> > they all found out who killed Laura Palmer.
> > He said (this is not quoted--I was in my car and am writing this from 
> > memory) It was sometime last summer. Frost and Lynch asked Ben, Ray
> > and Maddie/Laura to come up. (this is sort of a quote---We walked into
> > a darkened room and there was no furniture in it.  We sat on the floor
> > crosslegged.  Frost (or Lynch) put his hand on my knee and said "
> > " It was you. It was always you."  

You forgot about the lava lamp.  The only thing in the room besides people
was a lava lamp in the shape of a waterfall.

> > Ray also said he was originally interviewed for Sheriff Trumans part but
> > they liked him for Leland better.

His agent called him and told him they wanted him for Leland Palmer.  He
had no idea who Leland was, and looked through the pilot for the character.
He felt Leland was a pretty normal guy, above-average lawyer, who had the
misfortune to have a teenage daughter who was murdered.  (So, when the pilot
was filmed, he had no idea about BOB, etc.)

He said during his early dancing scenes that the 'observant viewer' would
notice him holding his hands at different heights.  When his hands were low,
he was dancing with a young Laura, teaching her to dance while she stepped
on his shoes.

His natural hair color is brown, he had to wear *tons* of chemicals to
get it the color white on the show.  His hair is growing out now, and
is half white half brown.

When asked whether he would be back on TP as another twin, or via
flashbacks he said - who knows anythings possible.

He was very sad when he found out that he KLP.  (I would have been 
dissappointed also, out of a job in a cool new series).  He had grown
very fond of Leland and his quirky ways, and couldn't believe he had
killed Laura.

He was on a day-time soap for 6 years (One Life to Live - I think). 

Good interview, maybe Ray can get cast for other TV roles ?

an interesting note (as interesting as the previous message, that is)

Dead Kennedy's:  I Lynch the Landlord <--> David Lynch 

IS THERE A CONNECTION?

Maybe Jello Biafra is really 'Bob'!
-- ..................... ___________________ :::: ::::::::::::::::/not so threatening/ ............................... :: . : . : . : . . ::\__in_lower_case___\ : tpehrson%javelin@dsd.es.com : ::...:...:...:.:::.:: >aka:_t_clinkenpeel>:.dsd.es.com!javelin!tpehrson.:

Leland Speaks!

If you have yet to catch Fresh Air on National Public Radio, make the 
effort to find it.  It is one of the best interview shows anywhere, 
anytime.  Produced in Philadelphia at WHYY, the show is hosted by
Terry Gross, a bright, articulate, broadly educated woman who holds her own 
against film makers, actors, musicians, writers, even writers calling
her from the Federal Pen.  Dont miss it!.

I say that 99% because its true, and only 1% because it may work in my
favor if the copyright police call me about what follows.  Anyway, on 
12/12 Terry talked with Ray Wise.

------------------
[Terry Gross says]  [This interview is dedicated to television critic 
David Biancouli (sp?) ] who seldom lets a week go by without
mentioning Twin Peaks on our show.

[audio from TP, Cooper says] Did you kill Laura Palmer?

[Leland howls repeatedly, and says] Thats a yes.

[Terry Gross] It was two Saturdays ago that Leland Palmer confessed to
killing his daughter, Laura Palmer.  Right after the confession, the
evil spirit Bob left Leland's body, and Leland died -- which means the actor
who played him, Ray Wise, is out of the series.  The perfect time we 
thought, to ask Ray Wise what it was like to star on Twin Peaks.
Since the premier of Twin Peaks the characters in the series, and the TV 
viewers who watched it, had asked the same question:  Who killed Laura
Palmer?  I asked Ray Wise when he found out.

[Ray Wise] I found out the [morning] after the Emmy Awards this last 
summer, and Mark Frost and David Lynch called me up to their office --
actually called Ben Horn (Richard Bemer) and myself, and Sheryl Lee,
who played Laura and who played Maddie Ferguson, up to the office -- and
we went into a small room that was devoid of furniture.  It was very dark
[Terry Gross begins to laugh]  This is true - with a kind of lava lamp
[she really laughs] in the corner - a lava lamp waterfall, as I
recall; and David was sitting on the floor cross-legged, and so was Mark, and
so was Sheryl Lee, and Richard and I came in and we sat down,
cross-legged, and David leaned over and put his hand on my knee, and
he said "It was you".  [TG laughs] "It was always you, from day one it
was you".

And I sort of bowed my head and curled up into a fetal position and
said -- I really can't say the word that I said at the time -- but it was
"Oh, shoot!"

[TG] Why were you upset?

[RW] I didn't want it to be me, you know?  I really - I -I grew to
love Leland Palmer and his strange ways, and I didn't want it to be
him.  Oh, it's like having a close friend turn out to be a killer,
and go to prison, and all that sort of thing.   I just didn't want
it to be Leland.  I wanted Leland to go on and on [he chuckles].

[TG] Did it ease the pain though, knowing that in a way he was
innocent, 'cause after all he was possessed, it wasn't his own
motivation that killed Laura Palmer.

[RW] Absolutely.  Mark went on to explain my last show, and the
meaning of the last show.  And they also filled me in on some of
the background that I hadn't been aware of, that Bob had been
inside me for the last four or five years.  Leland is a true
innocent in a sense because he was totally possessed by this evil
spirit Bob, and yeah, when they told me that it really took the edge
off it for me.  I was able to accept it a lot better after that.

[TG] Did the writers know right from the start that you did it?  You 
know, that Leland Palmer was the vehicle...

[RW]  Oh yeah, Mark and David, they promised me that they did [he
doesn't sound completely sure...] they knew it from the start.  I
don't think they knew quite how they were going to arrive at that
point, but I think that they knew who they wanted it to be.  And it
was me.  I was the sacrificial lamb.

[TG]  Let's talk about that last scene -- the death scene -- after
you confess, and then, you know, you're, you're [she approaches the
word with some embarrassment] you're barking [she laughs].  Was that
--whos idea was it for you to bark?

[RW] That's me, that's all me.  Tim Hunter directed that episode and
Tim did a wonderful job, but I had all these things sorta planned out
in my head, the way I wanted to approach it anyway.  The times when I
was possessed by Bob I wanted to exhibit certain things, and then when
I became Leland again I wanted to show certain things.  The bark just
sort of, uh, came out -- very feral thing, very wolf-like, very
animal-like, and very vicious, and it just seemed to fit with the
woods motif.  [They both laugh]  You know, the wolf in the woods, that
kind of thing.  So, I did it anyway.

[TG]  So you've known the secret to who killed Laura Palmer since
the summer.  Were you like pledged to secrecy, and were you protected
from the public in any way so that no one would find out...

[RW] Oh yeah, yeah, they made us do everything except sign a paper.
They stamped numbers on all of our scripts so that if one of our
scripts fell into foreign hands they would know the party responsible
for losing it.  I mean it sounds funny, but it was true, that they
tried to impose maximum security on the set, so that no one would know
and so there wouldn't be any leaks.  And they even tried to fool the
crew some times, you know, they would have us do certain scenes with a
couple of different actors.  And they would film it, actually waste
money, and waste film to shoot superfluous footage just so that people
wouldn't know who the real killer was.

[TG]  What were some of the ways people tried to get you to reveal who
killed Laura Palmer?

[RW]  Well they just start talking to me, you know, they just start 
talking to me and asking me supposedly harmless questions -- and it's 
wonderful to be able to talk to you right now with this load off my
chest [she laughs].  I don't have anything to protect [he begins to
laugh] I don't have anything to protect any more.  I can be pretty
truthful, and it's great to feel that way.  But people would just
start out asking me little questions, seemingly harmless ones, and then try
to lead into the big one and try to slip it in by me without my
knowing it.  But I always clamp down on it and say, "Look, I'm sorry, I can't
answer that".

[TG]  When you first started to work on Twin Peaks, what kind of
overall description and what kind of character description did David
Lynch give you?

[RW]  Well you know, when I first came in on Twin Peaks it was
originally for the role of Sheriff Truman. [Oh..., says TG, somewhat
surprised]  [And] David and Mark were seeing me for that role. And
then we talked for about -- our first meeting we talked for about
twenty or twenty-five minutes, about just life in general and the
first cars that we owned -- I think David's was a Volkswagon, and mine
was a little 1960 Alpha Romeo convertible that was in pretty good
shape, and anyway, we talked about our cars and a couple of people that we
had in common, and that was the extent of the interview.

They called me back a few days later, and my agent said "Ray, you
know, they're interested in you for the part of Leland Palmer".
And I said "Wait a minute, Leland Palmer?  Who's he?"  So I opened up
the script and I quickly rifled through the pages, and "Ah, yes,
there's Leland Palmer right here... ah ha... he hears that his
daughter's been murdered... ok... he cries here... dit, dit, dit,
dit... ah, he goes to the hospital to identify his daughter's body and
he breaks down and cries here..." and I thought "Oh my, this guy... is
spending a lot of time crying!  He's a lot of time with grief".  And
that was my introduction to Leland Palmer, I had to quickly look him
up in the script.

And then several days later we were all chosen for our various parts,
and we flew up to Seattle about a week later to begin the pilot, and I
thought Leland was a pretty normal, straight-forward, simple kind of a
guy, who was a pretty good lawyer in town, reasonably intelligent,
reasonably articulate, who was well liked, and unfortunately had a
young daughter who was murdered.  That's what I thought he was in the
beginning.

----------------

I'm going to take a break and post this first part.  I'm not
transcribing this as fast as I thought I could.  Let me know if
anyone's interested in seeing more.

                                   -- Steve
Steve Carol
Atlantic Community College
Mays Landing, NJ  08330
Carol@Pilot.NJIN.Net

cioffi@menudo.uh.edu (Delia Cioffi) writes:

> > But I thought it was interesting to observe just how real a presence The
> > Net had assumed in my subective experience of a tv show.

joe [Joe Zitt] writes:

> >Whereas, for mere mortals :-), TP is on for one hour a week, we manage to 
> >get a constant feed of it, dipping daily into this flow for a new dose. 
> >We don't let the episodes fade from our minds, but chew on it, analyse 
> >it, cross-reference it, and rewatch it with Talmudic intensity. The show 
> >is only the seed for the MetaShow.

> >Imagine if there were an interactive 24 hour cable channel devoted to 
> >analysis of the NFL game of the week...

You mean like rec.sport.football?   :-)
-- "SO be it! The fate of the UNIVERSE is in your hands!" "Talk about job-related stress."

In article <90345.120230EX0@psuvm.psu.edu>, EX0@psuvm.psu.edu writes...

} I think the govt. knows a lot more than we can guess about the goings on
} at TP. [...]  In any event, I think the Major knows a great deal more
} about what is happening in TP than he has let on. He is obviously
} interested in Cooper for a reason. In the 12/8/90 episode he told Cooper
} was gifted, and was not alone in that respect. Either he himself is
} gifted, or he knows others that are gifted.

The latter. He mentioned the White Lodge. I posted a literary source that
describes the White Lodge as, basically, a bunch of mystic good guys who
hang out in Tibet, and are fronted by the Dalai Lama. The Major's being
aware of the White Lodge would explain how he knows of others who are
gifted. The fact that he works for the US Government may well be totally
irrelevant to his knowledge of the White Lodge.

-- "Evvy little bug got a honey ta hug but me." --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA) UUCP: ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian ARPA: boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM

In article <35570037@hpopd.HP.COM>, richardh@hpopd.HP.COM (Richard Hancock) writes...

} Do we DEFINITELY know who the Dwarf (MFAP?) was/represented? If so, who
} was he?

Definite enough. Cooper explained that the Dwarf's dancing was a clue to
Leland's sudden compulsion to dance. Coop, at least, was convinced that
the Dwarf represented Leland, and it seems clear to me that that is the
intention of the writers.

Cooper may well be mistaken, but I suspect that it would be fruitless to
discuss the point, as I think that particular door is shut.

-- "Evvy little bug got a honey ta hug but me." --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA) UUCP: ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian ARPA: boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM