Season 2, Episode 02: Coma — October 06–12, 1990

Pat sez:  "Josie has pictures of the affair between Ben
and Catherine.  All she has to do is produce these
pictures at the right time and Ben Horne will go bye-bye.

I don't think this is true.  For on e thing, Harry 
already knows that Ben and Catherine have had an affair.  "Its
something that's been going on for years."  B.Horne is Horney.
This wouldn't come as a surprise to anyone on TP--even his 
daughter.
In fact, I have a theory that Laura Palmer is actually
Ben Horne's illegitimate daughter--the diary certainly hints of
an unnaturally close relationship between them.  And there are
those pictures of Laura all over Ben's office.  The theory goes
like this:  Ben, a young, ambitious businessman, has an affair
with the vivacious red-head Sarah.  A child is concieved.  Ben
can not afford the publicity of a divorce or the financial problems
that would ensue.  So he makes a deal with his bumbling childhood
friend--Leland.  Marry Sarah, be a father to Laura, and in exchange
be employed as the Horne attorney.  This would make the incest
between Leland and Laura slightly distasteful to the prime-time
audience.

Jeffrey St. Clair

A screaming comes across the sky. You've heard it before, but there's
nothing to compare it to now.
Gravity's Rainbow.

In article <1990Oct6.005522.19608@athena.mit.edu> patl@athena.mit.edu (Patrick J. LoPresti) writes:
> >"I would like to place an international call.  Collect, to Hong Kong."
> >
> >That is all that was said in the second call.  It obviously proves that
> >Josie is BOB, that she killed Laura, attacked Jacoby, and shot Cooper.
> >She's probably the giant, too.
> >

It dos'nt prove any such thing. What it really proves is that Josie is
really Laura Palmer (wearing a josie mask), that she killed Ronnete
Pulaski, and that the person masquerading as Ronnete Pulaski is really
BOB who's actually quite a nice guy who just happens like scaring
people. It also proves that the whole plot was masterminded by the Log
Lady and David Letterman.


-- It's 10pm. Do you know where your .signature file is?

For what it's worth, a recent newspaper article quoted 

Frost as saying that the identity of Laura's killer 

will definitely be revealed by Episode 7!



Looking forward to tonight ...

and to 100 postings on Monday.

Doug

   The story so far: Cooper's assailant was wearing a mask to avoid
identification by Cooper.  Therefore, Cooper was expected to survive.
Therefore, the gunperson knew about the vest, hence about the stakeout.

   My previous posting pointed out that Ed Hurley, Hawk, and Harry
Truman were all too tall to be the gunperson, and Andy was on the
phone at the time.  Lucy had knowledge of the stakeout and may be
the right height, but is clearly an implausible suspect.

   Let's ask what the motive for the shooting could have been.  
Cooper's big accomplishment was catching Leo & Jacques.  If the
reconstruction last week is to be believed, the time Laura spent
with those two did not directly lead to her death.  Thus, Cooper
was NOT on the point of making some big discovery that would have
broken the case.  What has been the main result of the shooting?

   ALBERT SHOT COOPER TO GET HIMSELF SENT BACK TO TWIN PEAKS

  (Don't ask me why he wants to be sent back.  Maybe he feels he has
  some unfinished personal business with Harry Truman, or professional
  business with Laura.  Maybe he's a masochist.)

Charles Blair

   ``Diane, I may have to reassess the value of 24-hour room service.''

   Laura was struck repeatedly by something like a board with nails
sticking out of it.

   ``Something like...''  Does anyone know exactly what the saws 
are shaping in the opening scene?  I don't, but they seem to be rail-
shaped objects with sharp teeth, which could have been used.

   I've felt for some time there was a reason why Josie closed the
mill when she heard of Laura's death.  If she didn't kill Laura, per-
haps the killer asked her to hide the implement at the mill, and she
didn't at first realize what it had been used for, then decided it
needed to be destroyed (or hidden for possible blackmail use) while
the mill was deserted.

Charles Blair

  ``Diane, I may need to reassess the value of 24-hour room service.''

   Leo shot Waldo.  Hank shot Leo.  Nadine will shoot Hank.  (I'm
sure she will shoot SOMEBODY)

Charles Blair

PS On September 30, I posted the guess that the fish was put in the
percolator to mask its use in drug preparation.  Did anybody suggest
this earlier?  I've made so many wrong predictions that I would like
credit if this one turns out correct!

  ``Diane, I may have to reassess the value of 24-hour room service.''

PREDICTIONS, SPOILER, WHATEVER TO FOLLOW!!!!






























Ok, here's the big picture as I see it..

Taking into account that if I were a director, and given the luxury
of having the ability to be able to create what is really a 20,40,50
hour long movie interrupted by a weeks worth of commercials, I believe
that we have only just seen the tip of a very large iceberg.
        I think that the death of Laura will soon become trivial and
pale to what Lynch has in store for us. A lot of folks here have
proposed that the murderer(s) may turn out to be the most innocent
looking of the bunch, i.e. Donna, Andy, etc. Assuming Lynch wants
to keep the show alive, he is going to have to create a need to keep
Cooper around (the show won't go very far without him).
        So, taking this theory, I would suggest that although we
will see Laura's murder resolved fairly soon (to keep our attention)
that the plot of the show may turn towards the activities of Major
Briggs. Now a lot of this has to do with my dyed in the wool 
conspiracy theorist paranoia. 
        What in the world is a Major, with all those decorations,
doing conducting classified work in the Twin Peaks area?   
        It's not exactly a hotbed of the aerospace industry..
In regards to the premiere episode, Major Briggs was definitely not
his usual self, and I predict he will either disappear or end up
dead fairly soon.. Which of course may be the required reason to
keep Cooper around once Laura's story has been played out.
        If Lynch/Frost manage to steer clear of going too far into
an occult explanation for the murders, I suspect we may be witnessing
the creation of a masterpiece of filmaking. All of these apparently
linked storylines may suddenly turn into completely independent events
that only share a common link that they all occurred in a small town
during the same chunk of time. This is usually the reality of how
events happen. Most people think that Lynch is very far from reality,
but in fact I find the storylines of T.P. to be fairly tame in
comparison to what can and does happen in small communities
in North America.  
        Lynch has become expert at exploiting the real horrors of
life in Your Town U.S.A. I realized that the feeling of sadness
that I felt after viewing Blue Velvet came not from what happened
in the film, but from reminding me of some of the things in my
youth that I have now just recognized for what they were, i.e.
childhood friends being abused, alcohol/drug abusing parents (Ward
Cleaver on valium, June on Methadrine and Schnopp's)..
        So, keep your fingers crossed that the network keeps
T.P. alive, and keep an eye on the Major ..
"he hats lothz ov thee cretz"

Doug "A to D" Dulmage

There has been a lot of discussion lately about whether or not Laura and
Ronette went to the train car voluntarily or not. I don't know if anybody
else has pointed this out recently or not, but the first thing we hear
Ronette say (way back early in the first season) as she rolls around, 
supposedly in a coma, in the hospital bed is...
"Laura...no...don't go there" [sic]

Also, another thing. I don't know if something else has been pointed out
before (I'm new at the over-analysis thing). But, the fact that "One Eyed
Jack's" was changed to "Jack with one eye" may by a reference to the 
secret message from the Americans to the British when researchers discovered
RADAR which read "Mary Eddy Baker with one eye" -- a discovery which many 
feel was the turning point of the war in Europe.

--------------------------------------------------
Miguel S. Fellini esq.   "It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter..."
"Each day brings a new beginning and every hour holds the promise of an 
Invitation to Love"

A Los Angeles Times article today discovered something very interesting:
Bob was wearing handcuffs during Ronnette's flashback! He wasn't killing
Laura, as she did not die of blows, but giving her CPR, and it was not
blood on his lips but her lipstick - he was giving her mouth-to-mouth.

Can anyone with a good VCR and frame-by-frame confirm this?

The article mentions that you can clearly see Laura's nipples during the
long pan down her body.

ed

In article <3976.2708bcaa@wums2.wustl.edu> smith_c@wums2.wustl.edu writes:
> >   Other comments I have about the new season include Maddy's vision about 
> >the carpet in the living room at the Palmer's home.  Could it be her vision
> >is telling her that Killer Bob (or is it BOB) is living/had lived in the
> >Palmer basement.  I would like to see somebody go down there and check it 
> >out.  Just thinking out loud.  What do people on the net think?
> >
> >                                                 Todd

Premonition of someone dying on the carpet.  Leland?  Child molester...
I hate to say it, but that sounds pretty plausible.  I want to hear what
Mike (is that the one-armed man's name?) has to say about his friend BOB.
Oh, by the way -- Bob is not spelled in all caps on the soundtrack label.
Kind of wounds the BOB-as-acronym theory.

Scott

In article <KAUTZ.90Oct4141027@tzero.tempo.nj.att.com> kautz@allegra.att.com writes:
> >More likely the giant is a spirit of the trees, which would explain
> >his height!  What did Tolkien call them, "ents"???
> >---- Henry Kautz


This is most certainly correct!  The diary offers too many references
to special trees to list, but I'll list the most convincing example. (pg. 47)

"    Listening to the Wood
Inside the trees are souls I think
Souls that grow and change
Inside each leaf, so quiet
A memory of moments no one else has seen
But no man ever listens
Takes the time to think
That trees might see what happens
That in the way they rustle
Is a hint they wish to speak.

They might have tried to whisper
In the palm of someone's hand
their memory of a little girl
How there is a new hole inside her
And a new and smaller mouth
But no one believes or cares
That maybe

The tree would know
Something was very wrong
That it wants to talk about the sadness
It has seen so many nights
I think the world
Should walk deep into the woods
Listen very carefully,
To the voices in the leaves.
See the details, the tiny maps
Of footsteps, and sometimes stains
They should see that the leaves
Are shaped like tears 
They should study the design in fallen needles
That will lead the world
To the one who made
The hole."

(the hole is a reference to a metaphorical Laura's baby, the new
Laura resulting from BOB's influence.  i.e. the maker of the
hole is BOB, so the tree will lead the world to BOB)

I am totally convinced, but you can take it as a dumb random poem if you like.


horny@ucscb.ucsc.edu     Michael Kaye
"Dad took off all of his clothes and shouted, "It's a dream...
 Fucking relax, would you?... `"     --L

Hi All,

Does a synopsis exist anywhere that could be E-Mailed to me?  I'm not
so much interested in the story line, but rather the name of each
character and the relationship to others and the story.

  thanks,

    Magi

I just bought some Black Jack (and Clove) gum today. I asked the counter
guy how long it had been there, and he said it was a special promo
thing that was for a limited time only.

I'm not sure if the gum is not just another Lynch joke, having
nothing to do with TP, but with the world most of us live in.

BTW, Mike Nelson was the character Lloyd Bridges played on "Seahunt".
-- Root Boy Jim Cottrell <rbj@uunet.uu.net>

In article <1990Oct3.212955.33891@eagle.wesleyan.edu> ggrosz@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
> >
> >- No question about it.  The character I'd like to see most brought to TP has
> >got to be Diane Shapiro, PhD, Brandeis.  What is Hawk's current relationship
> >with her, anyway?

Diane Shapiro? DIANE Shapiro? Hmmm....


-- c2h5oh@ucscb.ucsc.edu | "And they all got rich without working, which | is very wrong; but the dragon had never been | to school, as you have, so he knew no better."

In article <3976.2708bcaa@wums2.wustl.edu> smith_c@wums2.wustl.edu writes:
> >In article <3974.270881ad@wums2.wustl.edu>, trimpe_b@wums2.wustl.edu writes:
> >   Yes Leland did suffocate Jaques.  Who knows why he said strangulation 
> >instead of suffocation?  There are many reason why he might have done that.

Maybe because Lucy said he was strangled when she was telling him what
had happened to everyone. Just a blunder on her part I assume, may or
may not be a glitch. Probably is, they seem to be getting careless.
Cooper hasn't done anything so far to investigate Jaques murder, but
he's got quite a lot of ground to cover. What I'm wondering is why the
hell no one is gaurding Ronette? Even before Jaques was killed it
seems like someone should've, but especially now. Don't give me the
"small hospital" line, if Cooper had thought of it, she'd be being
watched.
-- c2h5oh@ucscb.ucsc.edu | "And they all got rich without working, which | is very wrong; but the dragon had never been | to school, as you have, so he knew no better."

Oh Jeeze. It's all Cooper's dream. The whole freaking thing is Cooper's
dream. He's really the one strapped to a wheelchair in some loony bin,
an old retired FBI man---always a little flakey---who finally went off
the deep end back in '89, right about the time of those terrible murders
up in the northwest....

Things be gettin *hot* ... 
-- ================================================================= Delia Cioffi: -- University of Houston: cioffi@menudo.uh.edu -- Stanford University: cioffi@psych.stanford.edu

In article <7568@darkstar.ucsc.edu> c2h5oh@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Idealistic Bibliomystic) writes:
> >Maybe because Lucy said he was strangled when she was telling him what
> >had happened to everyone. Just a blunder on her part I assume, may or
> >may not be a glitch. Probably is, they seem to be getting careless.

This seems to be the case, since Albert corrected the information in his
conversation with Cooper.  More interesting is the question of Cooper's
former partner.  Who is he, why was he in a mental(?) institution, and
why is his escape so worrisome to the two?

And it seems the question of BOB's reality hasn't been cleared up at all.
Maddy certainly sees BOB as possessing physical reality when he comes at
her, but it's quite clear that neither Donna nor James see him, nor does
Gaddy when she looks a second time.  It's rather doubtful that BOB could
have escaped or hidden in the couple seconds it took for Donna and James
to arrive, so it seems he doesn't have a purely physical existance.

Also, if Leland remembers BOB from his early childhood, it would seem that
BOB certainly ages gracefully... or he's not a physical being (or perhaps
just not a human being?)  Since it seems that the supernatural/alien
presence is now firmly entrenched (COOPER/COOPER/COOPER/COOPER...), some
of the theories about BOB's origins don't come across as being so 
farfetched anymore.

And... is Ben's request to Jerry just an idle expression of anger, or might
Leland be checking out soon?  Ben certainly didn't seem too upset when he
reported Audrey missing, either, did he?

Furthermore, Ben and Jerry's (love that!) business plans seem to be 
falling apart in short order.  Jerry, in particular, looked far less
competent than he has in the past, although Ben also didn't look as in
control, either.

Finally, what happened to Hank that turned him from "one of the best of us"
into a drug-dealer and a murderer?

 -Chris
--
Chris Lang   |   Univ. of Michigan Engineering   |   chrisl@eecs.umich.edu
635 Hidden Valley Dr., Apt. 218, Ann Arbor, MI  48104         +1 313 663 5126
WORK: National Center for Manufacturing Sciences, 
      900 Victors Way, Suite 226, Ann Arbor, MI, 48108        +1 313 995 0300

nope we don't want any creamed corn here.

sperm banks save [sperm] whales and sterile folks don't need to bathe.

ok i admit i didn't think it could get any weirder.  so i was wrong.

but i was right about the space aliens.

-- pjg@acsu.buffalo.edu / rutgers!ub!pjg / pjg@ubvms

In article <1990Oct7.033117.26118@menudo.uh.edu> cioffi@menudo.uh.edu (Delia Cioffi) writes:
> >Oh Jeeze. It's all Cooper's dream. The whole freaking thing is Cooper's
> >dream. He's really the one strapped to a wheelchair in some loony bin,
> >an old retired FBI man---always a little flakey---who finally went off
> >the deep end back in '89, right about the time of those terrible murders
> >up in the northwest....
> >
> >Things be gettin *hot* ... 

Part of me really likes this theory.  It's so twisted, it fits.  But I
think this would truly be the cheap way out, and I don't think Lynch
would take it.  If nothing else, the existence of the merchandise such as
Laura's diary and the Diane tapes suggests to me that we are seeing the
physical reality, such as it is.  Of course, that's a pretty flimsy 
defense, but my gut tells me that this isn't all a dream.  Not Cooper's,
at least.  Perhaps...BOB's?  Or an alien's?

I really hope I'm right.  I, personally, would feel very cheated if this
all turned out to be a dream.  I suspect I wouldn't be the only one,
too...

 -Chris
--
Chris Lang   |   Univ. of Michigan Engineering   |   chrisl@eecs.umich.edu
635 Hidden Valley Dr., Apt. 218, Ann Arbor, MI  48104         +1 313 663 5126
WORK: National Center for Manufacturing Sciences, 
      900 Victors Way, Suite 226, Ann Arbor, MI, 48108        +1 313 995 0300

In article <107590@uunet.UU.NET> rbj@uunet.UU.NET (Root Boy Jim Cottrell) writes:
> >I'm not sure if the gum is not just another Lynch joke, having
> >nothing to do with TP, but with the world most of us live in.

Black Jack and Clove and one othere I can't recall, are all real gum that
were popular years ago. They are still produced, we sold some at a Fay's 
Drugs I worked at 2 years ago, but only on a special display.

###############################################################################
#  "Calling Garland operator 7G," EVE           Email megazone@wpi.wpi.edu    #
# MEGAZONE, aka DAYTONA, aka BRIAN BIKOWICZ     Bitnet Use a gateway. Sorry.  #
###############################################################################

 It seems doubtful that the entire
 thing could be a dream. Many tv viewers
 still remember the last episode to st. elsewhere - where the entire show was
 in the mind of an autistic child. So
 Lynch wouldn't copy this show. (Unless
 of course Johnny "Mr. Autistic" Horne
 has been thinking some odd thoughts.
 On Laura's audio tape, she speaks of the man with a red corvette. Not Le but
 Johnny who I think is shown at least once playing with a red corvette. Perhaps?)
 -Lynch has entered the realm of sci-fi and that is great. I now intend to sit
 back and watch many of you bicker about the "absurdity" of TP.

 ...and life goes on....

 -L.p.P.

Spoilers for 10/6, stop if you haven't see it yet:


Well, _that_ was an interesting experience!  I'll leave detailed
commentary to the experts (especially to those who managed to get
their VCRs working...I, unfortunately, did not :-() but I want to
comment on one aspect that really struck me: the fact that Leland
identified "BOB" and the circumstances that Leland knows him from.  

This goes back to the Leland-as-sexual-abuser-of-Laura theory.  It is
known that people who are abused as children very often become child
abusers in turn.  So, my theory is that the "real" BOB was the person
that Leland knew when he was a boy, and that "BOB" molested Leland
when Leland was young, possibly repeatedly.  As a result, Leland
developed a split personality, and the "bad" half of Leland has taken
on the personality of BOB, the person responsible for the trauma.
 Leland as BOB acts out his childhood trauma at the hands of the "real
BOB" on his own daughter and eventually kills her.

And now it appears he's become fixated on Maddie, which she has picked
up on. Remember the look he gave her when she went out to meet Donna
and James?  And she does look like Laura...

Jen

--
*******************************************************************************
Jennifer Hawthorne* "Blood sausage, sheep's stomach--
*    Dad, all of Scottish cuisine is based on 
(jen@athena.mit.edu)*  a dare!" -- paraphrased from SNL

allison@oxy.edu (David Bruce Allison) writes:

> > * pn eopy1 eopy2 eopn3 ffy hfy eon lm 008 rm 072 pi 000 ps 001 pl 060 hd 000 

3bn4/529j/MFCL/THE/OWLS/ARE/NOT/WHAT/THEY/SEEM/1492/spqr/NaCl/h2s04/COOPER/foo

:-)
--

Well here's my $0.02 on whom the killer is.  

I believe that BOB is an evil spirtual entity that take over beings and
make them do there bidding.  Right before Laura died she had finally,
one way or another, fought off BOB.  So to take his revenge he took over
Cooper's ex-partner and had him track her down and kill her. After she
had died, BOB left the guy and when the guy woke up and saw what he had
done, he screamed (Just like in the season opener).  BOB also has people
having terrible visions(Such as Maddy's).  

It was said by someone that the mystery could be solved by the second
episode.  Tonight there was talk about Cooper's ex-partner escaping. 
Since Major Briggs brought up that thing about outer space, I can assume
that BOB is either an outer space entity or a inner space phantom-like
creature, and evil in all respects.  

The flaw this has is that it still doesn't solve everything about
Ronette.  There are still many possibilities on why she was at the train
car.  

On the other side, there is another force acting here.  It is the entity
of good or peace as which the Giant displays.  He is almost definately a
outer space entity or a inner space phantom-like creature. 

Also some remaining questions?
1)What does all this owl talk really mean?
2)If Cooper just got a Five year contract extension, how far into the
supernatural will Lynch go?


Just my $0.02 

-JHarvey
"I feel like my lips have been taped to the tailpipe of a bus."

joshua@csustan.csustan.edu (Joshua Delahunty) writes:

> > Cooper gets a call from Hawk, where he first gets news about the One-Armed
> > Man in the hospital.  ** The Phone is on the bedstand, NOT near the door

Your message had me wondering, too -- for a few seconds, but then it struck
me: each time the phone has been answered from the table, Cooper has been
awake and in work mode (as he always is when awake). When he has answered
it from the bed, he has been asleep.

Perhaps the phone has either a modular cord and multiple jacks, or the
phone cord is very long. In either case, Cooper could easily move it to
where it would be most convenient.

Tonight, he answered it from bed again.
--

Well here's my $0.02 on other theories.

For the Truman killed Laura people:
1)What was the motive?
2)Why would he put letters underneath her finger nails(He doesn't seem
the type for that.)?

For the Laura got molested people:
1)After watching last night episode, can you still give that as a reason
for BOB.
2)It still probable that she was molested and that's what led her to her
second life.

For the Maddy died not Laura people:
1)Do you really think that Laura would go around disguised for this long?
2)Get Real(Just Kidding!)
 
Thoughts on what I have said in my past posts are wanted.  
Let's see if I guessed right

ONLY FOUR MORE EPISODES UNTIL EPISODE SEVEN(The Revealing!)

-JHarvey
"I feel as if my lips were taped to the tailpipe of a bus."

In article <1990Oct7.053052.15285@athena.mit.edu> jen@athena.mit.edu (Jennifer Hawthorne) writes:
> >Spoilers for 10/6, stop if you haven't see it yet:
> >
> >This goes back to the Leland-as-sexual-abuser-of-Laura theory.  It is
> >known that people who are abused as children very often become child
> >abusers in turn.  So, my theory is that the "real" BOB was the person
> >that Leland knew when he was a boy, and that "BOB" molested Leland
> >when Leland was young, possibly repeatedly.  As a result, Leland
> >developed a split personality, and the "bad" half of Leland has taken
> >on the personality of BOB, the person responsible for the trauma.
> > Leland as BOB acts out his childhood trauma at the hands of the "real
> >BOB" on his own daughter and eventually kills her.

This certainly seems to be what comes to mind after the last episode.  The
only trouble is that even if Leland has a split personality, it doesn't
explain why everyone who sees BOB sees the same physical being... this
would seem to suggest that BOB is still around, and not only as a second
personality of Leland's.  But I agree that things definitely point to
Leland even more strongly than before.  One can't rule anything out,
though, particularly now that the supernatural/alien connection has been
established.

On that subject, I don't have any problems with the introduction of
the sci-fi/mystical element, although I think that the Major's 'message'
seemed to possess just a little bit of desperation, as if Lynch/Frost
realized that they were taking far too long to develop this theme for the
average (non-fanatic) viewer.  It seems very un-Lynchlike to have the
Major come right out and plop down this rather major (no pun intended)
plot twist in Cooper's (and our) lap.  On the other hand, the Major isn't
the type of character to do things in a roundabout fashion.  What does
surprise me is that he said nothing to Cooper until the Log Lady tells
him to.  First of all, why would he keep the information from Cooper for
almost two whole days?  I would think that alien communications with a
specific recipient would warrant faster action than that.  And if the
Major *did* have a good reason to not act on the information, why would
the Log Lady change his mind?  I suppose receiving messages from aliens
would tend to make one more receptive of such advice, though.  :-)

Finally, does anyone else think that the Ben/Jerry/Jose/mill plot is
anywhere near developed enough to sustain the show after the murderer is
identified?  It seems to drag on without gaining any strength as a viable
story line.  And now it looks like the mystery of Cooper's former partner
is going to be introduced as yet another subplot.  (I think it's a bit
too late in the Laura Palmer case for Lynch to be introducing an entire
new character with a significant role, and I don't see how Cooper's old
partner would have much to do with the Hornes' business dealings, which
means there'll be another story line.)

 -Chris
--
Chris Lang   |   Univ. of Michigan Engineering   |   chrisl@eecs.umich.edu
635 Hidden Valley Dr., Apt. 218, Ann Arbor, MI  48104         +1 313 663 5126
WORK: National Center for Manufacturing Sciences, 
      900 Victors Way, Suite 226, Ann Arbor, MI, 48108        +1 313 995 0300

Just a quick question for those of you with good memories:  was it mentioned
last season that Bobby had killed someone in the past?  Or was it Leo they
were talking about?  Does anyone know which episode # this was mentioned.
Thanks.

Dave

Just a couple of further thoughts... it looks like Albert is going to be
playing a larger role than before.  His relationship with Cooper is a lot
warmer (relatively speaking, of course!) this time, and if Cooper's former
partner is going to be important to the story, there's definitely going to
be more representatives of the Bureau than just Cooper himself.  Albert
will certainly play a major role in this, no doubt, and if the rumors
about the appearance of Diane and Cooper's boss (played by Lynch) are
true, this would seem to be the obvious way to bring them in, wouldn't
it?

One hopes, of course, that Albert's bigger role won't affect the sharpness
of his tongue.  :-)

 -Chris
--
Chris Lang   |   Univ. of Michigan Engineering   |   chrisl@eecs.umich.edu
635 Hidden Valley Dr., Apt. 218, Ann Arbor, MI  48104         +1 313 663 5126
WORK: National Center for Manufacturing Sciences, 
      900 Victors Way, Suite 226, Ann Arbor, MI, 48108        +1 313 995 0300

In article <1990Oct7.055750.13024@zip.eecs.umich.edu> chrisl@dip.eecs.umich.edu (Chris Lang) writes:

> >[stuff deleted] ...........................................  What does
> >surprise me is that he said nothing to Cooper until the Log Lady tells
> >him to.  First of all, why would he keep the information from Cooper for
> >almost two whole days?  I would think that alien communications with a
> >specific recipient would warrant faster action than that.             

     I think the delay could be attributed to the fact that Briggs and
Cooper, as I recall, had never formally met. Major Briggs would have
been very uncertain about their received message, but he would almost
certainly avoid leaping to conclusions without some kind of reassurance.
Until the Log Lady TOLD him he had a message to deliver, he probably
wasn't sure one way or the other, especially since showing the message
to Cooper almost certainly indicates a violation of military secrecy.

     So, is it just my imagination, or was the wierd kid who did the
creamed corn trick "Austin David Lynch"? (I can just see it now--
"Can you do a wierd favor for Daddy? Just hold this creamed corn in your
hands for a couple of minutes, ok?")

     -- Dan Johnson
        Disclaimer: Opinions? No opinions at UCSC, only extremes....

In article <1990Oct4.174952@trantor.Eng.Sun.COM> smarks@eng.sun.com writes:
> >LAURA'S MOTHER: Do you miss Beth?
> >MADELEINE: Who?
> >LAURA'S MOTHER: (slightly surprised) Your \mother/, Elizabeth.
> >
> >So, doesn't Madeleine know her own mother?  Hmmm....

I don't know about that. I think of my mother as "Mom", not "Tressa".
If someone asked me about "Tressa" and I was sufficiently tired, I
wouldn't know what the hell they were talking about.

---------- Ryan Mathews
-- Internet : mathews@cs.buffalo.edu Bitnet : mathews@sunybcs UUCP :{apple,cornell,decwrl,harvard,rutgers,talcott,ucbvax,uunet}! cs.buffalo.edu!mathews

> >In article <1990Oct7.033117.26118@menudo.uh.edu> cioffi@menudo.uh.edu (Delia Cioffi) writes:
>> >>Oh Jeeze. It's all Cooper's dream. The whole freaking thing is Cooper's
>> >>dream.....
> >
> >Part of me really likes this theory.  It's so twisted, it fits.  But I
> >think this would truly be the cheap way out...

         ...but especially if Coop wakes up next to Suzanne Pleshette...

Actually, I think the Dream Thing *could* work, and not as a
cop-out, but ONLY if the "truth" relates in some interesting and poignant
way to the Dream. e.g., Coop did go to TP but botched the case, allowing
Audrey to get killed in the process...Coop ignores his psychic rumblings
the first time around...Coop went to TP with his partner, who somehow
was driven to insanity by the events...

In any case, the Dream device could allow someone like Lynch to *retain*
many of the mystic/bizzare features of his story, rather than simply
dispatching them as "just a dream". It also gives him a
chance to tell his story *twice*, via the translations of a particular
individual's psychology (something I wager he'd be delighted to do..)
Somebody works through the same twisted reality two different ways.

I also very much like the notion (posted before) that the image of BOB
is the archetype which appears to every child who is abused (leland by
his grandpa? Laura/Maddie). This idea a communal image of terror is
also very Lynchian.
-- ================================================================= Delia Cioffi: -- University of Houston: cioffi@menudo.uh.edu -- Stanford University: cioffi@psych.stanford.edu

So, why does that kid magician look like a scale model of David Lynch, and
why does he (appear to) say "J'ai un ame solitaire", which roughly translates
as "I have a solitary soul"?  I thought at first he said "homme" [man], but
that doesn't make much sense.  The kid's French is about as good as mine.
-- Eugene Fiume, Dynamic Graphics Project Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto elf@dgp.toronto.edu, (416) 978-5472

In article <1990Oct7.033117.26118@menudo.uh.edu>, cioffi@menudo.uh.edu (Delia Cioffi) writes:
> > Oh Jeeze. It's all Cooper's dream. The whole freaking thing is Cooper's
> > dream. He's really the one strapped to a wheelchair in some loony bin,
> > an old retired FBI man---always a little flakey---who finally went off
> > the deep end back in '89, right about the time of those terrible murders
> > up in the northwest....
> > 

Actually, this is partially believable: maybe it's been dream since Cooper was
shot.  This would explain a lot of things which have been getting weird (even
for Lynch!) like the space aliens talking to the military and the Bob/owl
imagery and (especially) the creamed corn.  (Joke.  Joke.  The last bit was--
and I want to make this perfectly clear--a joke.)

And while I'm at it, let me add that I don't think I can handle the frustration
of seeing whatsername's not to Special Agent under his bed anymore.  I want her
*out* of her daddy's whorehouse (except that's going to be kind of hard to
avoid now, one way or the other, eh?)

Waiting for the future,
-- Eric Olson <fsejo@acad3.fai.alaska.edu> Gryphon Gang Fairbanks AK 99775

I'm sorry if this is stupid, but we didn't get the first year up here.  Do we
know anything whatsoever (except what's recently been mentioned) about Cooper's
ex-partner?
-- Eric Olson <fsejo@acad3.fai.alaska.edu> Gryphon Gang Fairbanks AK 99775

In article <1990Oct7.103708.14205@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> I wrote:

> >why does he (appear to) say "J'ai un ame solitaire", which roughly translates

Since "ame", or more correctly "a^me", meaning soul, is feminine, I should
have written "une".  Of course, I may have been hearing things, but it is
an interesting thing for a kid to say.
-- Eugene Fiume, Dynamic Graphics Project Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto elf@dgp.toronto.edu, (416) 978-5472

In article <1990Oct7.103708.14205@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> elf@dgp.toronto.edu (Eugene Fiume) writes:
> >So, why does that kid magician look like a scale model of David Lynch, and

 I'm glad someone else noticed this.  I was getting worried that maybe
 I've been watching and reading too much about this t.v. show and am 
 starting to see Laura, owls, and Lynch everywhere.

 Todd

More on duality: LIFE and DEATH

So far, the show has focused on who KILLED Laura. I predict that the
The future storyline will focus on who CREATED Lucy's baby. Think about
the possibilites:

- Finding a letter under the childs fingernails to get clues on previous
  conception victims and who will be next.
- Testing the baby's blood to be AB- thereby ruling out Leo, Jaques,
  Ronette, or Laura as the father [with the same flaws].
- Finding a birthmark on the baby's head that reads either "Fire Walk
  with me", "I don't seem like an owl", "pop" [which should have been
  bob because it was read upside down, or "six-six-five" [almost the
  anti-Christ] ... take your pick.

Louie

In article <Ib3gB0200aw949a1xR@andrew.cmu.edu> jh6g+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jason F. Harvey) writes:
> >For the Maddy died not Laura people:
> >1)Do you really think that Laura would go around disguised for this long?

Don't be silly.  If Laura killed Maddy, then she has to spend the rest of her
life pretending to be Maddy.  You see, if she suddenly admits that she really
is Laura, it kind of makes her a suspect in her cousin's murder.

That would be an interesting ending.  They convict Maddy of Laura's murder, and
only she knows that she really is Laura.

Michael


Michael L. Kaufman   || "When you vote, you only change the names of the 
kaufman@eecs.nwu.edu || cabinet.  When you shoot, you pull down governments,
                     || inagurate new epochs, abolish old orders, and set up
                     || new."                     George Bernard Shaw

In article <1990Oct7.103708.14205@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> elf@dgp.toronto.edu (Eugene Fiume) writes:
> >So, why does that kid magician look like a scale model of David Lynch, and
> >why does he (appear to) say "J'ai un ame solitaire", which roughly translates
> >as "I have a solitary soul"?  I thought at first he said "homme" [man], but
> >that doesn't make much sense.  The kid's French is about as good as mine.

Ahh, I was waiting for a discussion about this to start up...
First of all, I thought the kid said "J'ai une homme chaud de terre."
For which I could come up with two loose translations:
"I have a man hot from (of) the earth," or, if we use "chaud de terre" VERY
liberally, "I have a man from hell" or even "I have a devil."

A problem with this is that I clearly heard him say "une" and not "un." But 
homme is masculin.  I'm also not sure about the homme or chaud part, but I
am pretty sure that he said "J'ai" in the beginning and "de terre" at the
end.

So what do other people think? (Preferably a french scholar!)

And what is up with this creamed corned magician stuff?  It looks like
the supernatural is invading just about everyones reality now, and it is
certainly here to stay.

(Possibly the converging of those two universes/worlds that someone mentioned
a while back?)

Dave

(And leave my cheese pig alone!)

charles Blair asks:  what are those saws shaping in that opening
scene (the credits).  

Actually, those are sawblades being sharpened.

In article <1990Oct7.055750.13024@zip.eecs.umich.edu> chrisl@dip.eecs.umich.edu (Chris Lang) writes:
> >This certainly seems to be what comes to mind after the last episode.  The
> >only trouble is that even if Leland has a split personality, 

Given that the concept of a "split personality" was invented by 
Hollywood and does not exist in real life, it almost seems rather 
pointless to speculate on who has one and why.....

> >explain why everyone who sees BOB sees the same physical being... this
> >would seem to suggest that BOB is still around, and not only as a second
> >personality of Leland's. 

Does BOB's hair color change?  I remember him as being greyer in
Cooper's dream then he was last night when he was scuttling over
the sofa towards Maddie.


Oh yes, the list of objects found in Jacques' stomach that Albert
reads to Cooper is the same or similar to the objects Richard Drey-
fess finds in the stomach of the first shark in Jaws I (although I 
remember the license plate as being from Florida....).

That boy-magician that helps Donna out of a real messy
jam being stuck with that "creamed corn" looked just like David
Lynch.  "Sometimes things change...just like that 'snap'."  Hope
he sticks around, Coop could use him.
One more thing.  The scene with the fly buzzing around
Lucy came right out of "In the Heat of the Night"--the movie not
the TV series.
Didn't Cooper appear to be particularly distracted this
episode--perhaps his ex-partner is bad news (for him I mean, it'll
be shear delight for us I'm sure.)

In article <1990Oct7.055750.13024@zip.eecs.umich.edu> chrisl@dip.eecs.umich.edu (Chris Lang) writes:
.plot twist in Cooper's (and our) lap.  On the other hand, the Major isn't
.the type of character to do things in a roundabout fashion.  What does
.surprise me is that he said nothing to Cooper until the Log Lady tells
.him to.  First of all, why would he keep the information from Cooper for
.almost two whole days?  I would think that alien communications with a
.specific recipient would warrant faster action than that. 

Well, if I were doing the sort of work he was doing (monitoring radio
noise from distant galaxies) and something in perfectly recognizable
(albeit weird) English came up on the readouts, my conclusion
would be "someone on the project has a strange sense of humor".  The
only reason I might track down someone named in such a printout would
be to find out who they might know who would be on the project and be
a practical joker.  I certainly wouldn't take the message seriously as
a communication from outer space.  Although if I lived in Twin Peaks,
I might at least consider it...

Jen
--
*******************************************************************************
Jennifer Hawthorne* "Blood sausage, sheep's stomach--
*    Dad, all of Scottish cuisine is based on 
(jen@athena.mit.edu)*  a dare!" -- paraphrased from SNL

Ciao--

There be some spoilers...


Okay. When Leland said he remembered Killer Bob from his youth, right
away I had the feeling that there was more to his connection to Killer
Bob than an uncles neighbor whom Leland occasionally saw, but that
he in fact had been molested by him; now, if this is true than Leland
as Laura's molester is pretty much a sure thing--molesters become
molesters??? Anyway, it seems as though in Twin Peaks land, because
of some gateway, portal, to another world/time, that molestation takes
on a sexual sense, but also a spiritual one in that Bob, BOB, also
rapes the soul of the person, making him/her one of his minions.

Wow...shit...cream corn. That little boy was too freaky, & looked
a little too familar; upon seeing the credits Something Something
Lynch, I knew why.

And is Leland going to be offed..damn his dancing was getting pretty
good....


I still believe that Laura switched not with Maddie, but Ronette.
Laura was BOB's (geez I don't know for sure what to use: BOB, or
Killer Bob) the enity's assistant in the Teresa Bank's murder,
& was about to aide in Ronette's murder; she found out that
Leland had molested these many years ago, and opted for suicide. 
She couldn't physically kill herself, but she could do so, if
BOB thought he was killing Ronette. BOB in human form is Leland,
& hence his grief. 


   Considerate la vostra semenza:      ||  sally a. wilson
fatti non foste a viver come bruti,    ||  sally@mica.berkeley.edu
ma per seguir virtute e canoscenza.    ||  "il inferno":
_Inferno_ Canto XXVI vv.118-120.       ||  damn good poem, & hot too!

> >In article <1990Oct7.103708.14205@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> elf@dgp.toronto.edu (Eugene Fiume) writes:
> >So, why does that kid magician look like a scale model of David Lynch, and

My reaction on meeting this kid wasn't that he looked like Lynch, but
that he was almost a dead ringer for the Man From Another Place in
Cooper's third-episode dream.  

A)  He was short -- a "dwarf"
B)  He was wearing a tux.  Wasn't the dwarf wearing one in the
dream?  Coop certainly was.
C)  He snapped his fingers, like the dwarf did.
D)  He talked garbled, like the dwarf did (okay, maybe it was
French and not backwards English, but he still talked garbled.)
E)  He did "magic".  The dwarf didn't do magic but the kid's
magic suggests that he's closely involved with the "other place", the
supernatural side of Twin Peaks, as the dwarf seems to be.

Also, is the kid the Magician mentioned in the dream -- "Through
darkness of future past/The magician longs to see"???

Jen


--
*******************************************************************************
Jennifer Hawthorne* "Blood sausage, sheep's stomach--
*    Dad, all of Scottish cuisine is based on 
(jen@athena.mit.edu)*  a dare!" -- paraphrased from SNL

In article <1158600087@cdp> ddulmage@cdp.UUCP writes:
> >
> >Thank you.. no, thank you.. Where do they keep HIS dish?

I 2nd that  WOOF WOOF.

-where's Albert when you did him...
   Considerate la vostra semenza:      ||  sally a. wilson
fatti non foste a viver come bruti,    ||  sally@mica.berkeley.edu
ma per seguir virtute e canoscenza.    ||  "il inferno":
_Inferno_ Canto XXVI vv.118-120.       ||  damn good poem, & hot too!

   My guess is Norma will turn out to be an evil influence on Hank.

Hi, after last night show, our local Mpls. PBS station ran a live
special on T.P. They had Mark Frost live by sat. from L.A.
Onew of the interviewers asked about Piper Laurie (as she has been
doing some work in this area) and Frost replied that Catherine will
def. be back in the future.. All in all it was a nice special, very
positive about the future of the show.

   I agree with those posters who have identified Jerry Horne as BOB (brother
of Ben).  I think when Jerry changes into BOB, he either disguises himself or
has a physical transformation of supernatural kind (sort of like Norman Bates
turning into his mother).  

   Leland senses that Jerry is BOB, but only subconciously.  Jerry is anxious
to take appropriate steps before this becomes concious.

Ciao-

Now I found it most strange that Ben was a little nonchalant when
reporting that Audrey was missing. Most parents, even sleazy ones
like Ben would be a tade bit more concerned esp. after a local
brutal murder. Makes you wonder how much Ben knows about Laura's
death, thus knowing that the same fate had not happened to Audrey.

--Oh yeah didn't you just love Albert's remarks concerning the waiter.
Summet's exactly.
   Considerate la vostra semenza:      ||  sally a. wilson
fatti non foste a viver come bruti,    ||  sally@mica.berkeley.edu
ma per seguir virtute e canoscenza.    ||  "il inferno":
_Inferno_ Canto XXVI vv.118-120.       ||  damn good poem, & hot too!

In article <1990Oct7.183334.14745@agate.berkeley.edu> sally@eris.berkeley.edu (S. A. Wilson) writes:
> >
> >Okay. When Leland said he remembered Killer Bob from his youth....
stuff deleted
> >Anyway, it seems as though in Twin Peaks land, because
> >of some gateway, portal, to another world/time, that molestation takes
> >on a sexual sense, but also a spiritual one in that Bob, BOB, also
> >rapes the soul of the person, making him/her one of his minions.

In this and other posts, I DON'T understand why the only (or main) two
options seem to be BOB as real person or BOB as visitor from another
time or world. More correctly, BOB as *archetype* could account for 
his appearence to different individuals, *and* for both his consistencies
and differences across various individuals' visions.

It is, I admit, a somewhat fine-grained distinction, but seeing BOB (and
perhaps other "other-worldly" characters as well) as *psychological*
constructs is more in keeping with Lynch's demonstrated style and
sensibilities. It also allows these characters and forces to retain
*both* their "real" and "mystic" qualities.

-- ================================================================= Delia Cioffi: -- University of Houston: cioffi@menudo.uh.edu -- Stanford University: cioffi@psych.stanford.edu

Has anyone considered the possibility that the message Bobby's father
showed Cooper was NOT from outer space, but rather some 'unseen
force/personna/whatever'  had simply used Mr. Briggs computer to send
a message?

Just my $.02

mike
yacullo@topaz.rutgers.edu

Here is part of a transcript from the first scene in last night's show
in which Cooper and Albert are having breakfast. I am posting it for
everyone's reference. According to Coop, there is some connection to the
LP murder case.

C: Budhist tradition first came to the land of snow in the fifth century
   AD. The first Tibetan came to be touched by the Dharma was King Hathatha
   Rignamputsan. He and succeeding generations came to be collectively called
   the Happy Generations. Now some historians place them in the Water Snake
   Year, two-thirteen AD; others in the year one-seventy-three AD. Amazing
   isn't it?

A: Agent Cooper, I am thrilled to pieces that the Dharama came to Hohoho,
   I really am, but right now I am trying hard to focus on the more immediate
   problems of our own century right in Twin Peaks.

C: Albert, you'd be surprised at the connection between the two.

But Cooper does not elaborate on the connection. Any thoughts? Is there
anyone out there familiar with Bhudist/Tibetian tradition/folklore? Is
there an analogue to King HoHoHo in Twin Peaks or is it the other way
around, does Cooper have an analogue among the Happy Generations in Tibet?


Louie

Are there any credits given for eyebrow styling?

Audrey's have long been a classic, but Shelley's now seem to be taking on
a unique arch.

In article <13099@accuvax.nwu.edu>, kaufman@delta.eecs.nwu.edu (Michael
L. Kaufman) writes:
> > In article <Ib3gB0200aw949a1xR@andrew.cmu.edu> jh6g+@andrew.cmu.edu
(Jason F. Harvey) writes:
>> > >For the Maddy died not Laura people:
>> > >1)Do you really think that Laura would go around disguised for this long?
> > 
> > Don't be silly.  If Laura killed Maddy, then she has to spend the rest of her
> > life pretending to be Maddy.  You see, if she suddenly admits that she really
> > is Laura, it kind of makes her a suspect in her cousin's murder.
> > 

Also, don't forget that forensics showed that Laura was addicted to
cocaine.  Maddy would not continue running in the goody-goody
circle (any group of friends involving James!) if she needs a regular fix.

****************************************************************
* Greg Sandell (sandell@ils.nwu.edu)              Evanston, IL *
* Institute for the Learning Sciences, Northwestern University *
****************************************************************

>> >> in Article 3985, elf@dgp.toronto.edu (Eugene Fiume) writes:
>> >>
>> >> So, why does that kid magician look like a scale model of David Lynch, and

hmmmm.... we wondered the same thing too...

the credits note that the "Small Child" is played by "XXXX XXXX Lynch"
(sorry - can't remember his fullname and my VCR is not as close to
"my" DECstation as I'd like it to be).

nothing like keepin' it in the family ;-)

-------
Gary J Kacmarcik
platypus@dsrgsun.ces.cwru.edu

In article <1990Oct7.182716.23226@athena.mit.edu> jen@athena.mit.edu (Jennifer Hawthorne) writes:
> >In article <1990Oct7.055750.13024@zip.eecs.umich.edu> chrisl@dip.eecs.umich.edu (Chris Lang) writes:
> >Well, if I were doing the sort of work he was doing (monitoring radio
> >noise from distant galaxies) and something in perfectly recognizable
> >(albeit weird) English came up on the readouts, my conclusion
> >would be "someone on the project has a strange sense of humor".  The

I would also look close to the receiver for a local feed.  I wonder if the
alien message was in ascii or ebcdic encoding :-)

- Morrow

-- H. Morrow Long Manager of Development Yale Univ. Comp Sci Dept. Computing Facility

Just a few basic thoughts:  

 - - I am curious why no one has mentioned the extremely likely
possibility that BOB is the mysterious shut-in "Mr. Smith", Laura's
"friend" on the Meals on Wheels program.

- - Also, my boyfriend has said all along that aliens were involved
somehow.  BUT, we both think the KILLER is not one of the aliens.  (at
least I think that)

- - Obviously,  the aliens have established communication with the log - 
and hence, the log lady.  

- - Does Shelly really want Leo as a vegetable at home with her, so 
she and Bobby can "hang donuts from his ears?"  Scaarry kids!

- - Something interesting - - Maddy got rid of her glasses, and still
is hallucinating re: scary stuff and Killer BOBs.  

- - Some great one-liners last night.  My personal favorite:  Jerry
to Ben Horne:  "I am 100% certain that we are not sure!"

In article <1990Oct7.190340.10939@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> ceblair@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Charles Blair) writes:
> >   I agree with those posters who have identified Jerry Horne as BOB (brother
> >of Ben).  

Jerry is one of the few characters we can near absolutely rule out.  
He was in France when Laura was murdered.

> >   Leland senses that Jerry is BOB, but only subconciously.  Jerry is anxious >to take appropriate steps before this becomes concious.

Ben is the one who suggests eliminating Leland, not Jerry.

To me this issue is the most important one raised in the show last night:

Was Ben serious when he suggested killing Leland?  Or was he just
making a smart crack, prompted by Lelands counter productive phone call?
Ben has ordered murders before.  

If he was serious, this would provide extreme evidence for the idea
that Ben is influenced/possessed or whatever by BOB, or protecting
him for some reason.  He wouldn't suddenly order Leland murdered
because of his phone call to the icelanders.  If he was serious,
he ordered Leland murdered because he felt he could aid authorities in
identifying BOB.  I don't know if he was serious, could go either way.

The evidence for BOB being inside either Leland or Ben keeps piling on up...


---Michael Kaye   horny@ucscb.ucsc.edu

In article <k1PNq2w163w@zitt> joe@zitt (Joe Zitt) writes:
   joshua@csustan.csustan.edu (Joshua Delahunty) writes:
   > Cooper gets a call from Hawk, where he first gets news about the One-Armed
   > Man in the hospital.  ** The Phone is on the bedstand, NOT near the door

   Your message had me wondering, too -- for a few seconds, but then it struck
   me: each time the phone has been answered from the table, Cooper has been
   awake and in work mode (as he always is when awake). When he has answered
   it from the bed, he has been asleep.

   Perhaps the phone has either a modular cord and multiple jacks, or the
   phone cord is very long. In either case, Cooper could easily move it to
   where it would be most convenient.

...or perhaps, <gasp> there are two phones in the room?!?  In any event,
I don't think resolving this one will get us any close to LP's killer....

In article <7581@darkstar.ucsc.edu> horny@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Michael Kaye) writes:
> >
> >In article <1990Oct7.190340.10939@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> ceblair@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Charles Blair) writes:
> >Was Ben serious when he suggested killing Leland?  Or was he just
> >making a smart crack, prompted by Lelands counter productive phone call?
> >Ben has ordered murders before.  
> >
> >If he was serious, this would provide extreme evidence for the idea
> >that Ben is influenced/possessed or whatever by BOB, or protecting
> >him for some reason.  He wouldn't suddenly order Leland murdered
> >because of his phone call to the icelanders.  If he was serious,
> >he ordered Leland murdered because he felt he could aid authorities in
> >identifying BOB.  I don't know if he was serious, could go either way.

The more I think about it, the more I feel Ben was just exasperated with
Leland, and cracked the joke for that reason.  The Hornes' other crimes
have all been carefully planned out, and it doesn't fit with Ben's
calculating image to order the murder of one of his closest associates
on a whim.  Note also that if they wanted to stop Leland before he reached
the sheriff, they'd have to move pretty quickly, since it appears that's
where Leland was heading right away.  Since Jerry just stood there wondering
about the weirdness of it all, rather than actually doing something about
it, I am fairly convinced that it was a smart crack than an order.

I have trouble with the theories that Ben is BOB.  All of Ben's crimes
are business-motivated, as far as we can tell.  It makes more sense for
BOB to be in Leland than Ben.  Ben is, if nothing else, very independent,
whereas Leland seems to lean more on those around him, making him an 
easier host for BOB.  But the scene of Audrey making the phone call to
Cooper lends support to the idea that Blackie and One-Eyed Jack's play a
significant role in Laura's death.  I wouldn't be surprised if Ben doesn't
know half of what's going on at OEJ.  On the other hand, I wouldn't be
surprised if he did, but I get the feeling that Blackie (and Emory) are
involved in more than Ben suspects.

 -Chris
--
Chris Lang   |   Univ. of Michigan Engineering   |   chrisl@eecs.umich.edu
635 Hidden Valley Dr., Apt. 218, Ann Arbor, MI  48104         +1 313 663 5126
WORK: National Center for Manufacturing Sciences, 
      900 Victors Way, Suite 226, Ann Arbor, MI, 48108        +1 313 995 0300

In article <1990Oct7.114442.1@acad3.fai.alaska.edu> fsejo@acad3.fai.alaska.edu (Eric Olson) writes:
> >I'm sorry if this is stupid, but we didn't get the first year up here.  Do we
> >know anything whatsoever (except what's recently been mentioned) about Cooper's
> >ex-partner?

Nothing in the first season or the secret diary... perhaps he is
mentioned in Coopers Tapes to Diane?  (anyone?)

I already posted about Harold Smith.  Mrs. and Pierre Tremond are
mentioned in the diary, pg. 181.  Laura gives quite a speech to the little
kid (who seems like an adult in a kids body to me.)  She tells him
about BOB, her diary, dreams, drug dealings, and how messed up inside she is.

Michael Kaye   horny@ucscb.ucsc.edu
"I looked into Dad's eyes so that I wouldn't get too dizzy, and I saw
 his eyes light up, and a tear form, and then drop slowly down his cheek.
 The spinning slowed, and he grabbed me tight, held me as if he were
 afraid of something."       --L

Well, for a long time, I scoffed at the "Laura is alive" theory.  But these 
days, I am all but convinced this is true.  I think there is a lot of evidence
suggesting Laura killed Maddie.  There is also plenty of room for further 
explanation, but here is what I'm thinking. . .
Laura certainly had a decent reason for this.  Her life was pretty screwed up,
and taking over Maddie's life would let her start over.  We also have 
references in the diary to a "trade" with BOB, and this could be what we are
talking about here: Laura sacrifices Maddie in exchange for a new life.  There
is a lot of little stuff related to this such as:
- Maddie destroyed her glasses.  If it is really Laura, she wouldn't need to
   wear them.
- Waldo the bird kept yelling "Laura! Laura!"  There is no reason Laura would
   yell her own name, so we might guess the bird is impersonating someone 
   calling Laura.  Maybe Laura tricked Maddie to the cabin by telling her there
   was a great party.  Once there, she realized what was up, and screamed for
   help.
- Jacques tells us that when Laura was tied up, she was yelling a lot.  He says
   it is due to the bird, but if it was Maddie, she might very well have been
   yelling. 
- This suggests Jacques was ignorant of the plan to kill her.  I belive this,
   but I think Leo was in on it.  When Maddie started calling for Laura, Leo
   had a problem.  It was going to become obvious that it wasn't Laura.  He
   shoved the chip in her mouth to quiet her, but was still nervous.  He then
   slugged Jacques in the head with a whiskey bottle (Jacques didn't know why),
   and took off with Maddie and Ronette to find Laura (and BOB??)
   BTW, Ronette is a weak link in this theory.  I don't know how much she knew,
   and how she got brought along.  Maybe she "knew too much", and the plan was
   to kill her in the train too.
- Maddie sees blood on the carpet, and this week saw BOB in the living room.
   Either these are visions caused by guilt, she is having flashbacks, or (this
   is really weird) she is unaware of what she has done and is *very* confused
   by the visions.
- Maddie and James are giving each other the eye.  Would make sense if it was
   actually Laura looking for a normal life again.

What is the big picture?  I see a big cult of some sort that Laura got involved
in.  The cult is widespread and is responsible for the "serial killings".  The
killing in the train had a very ritual look to it.  Also, Laura looked pretty
wild in Ronette's vision (as you would guess if she just killed Maddie).  If
this is all true (yeah, right), we can guess the unidentified blood is 
Maddie's.  I see BOB as being a Manson-like figure at the head of the cult, but
I am not clear on how physical vs. spiritual he is.  
   Then again, I spoke to a friend last night who mentioned the "BOB wearing
handcuffs and lipstick" theory mentioned earlier.  Anyone else been able to
check up on this?  He also thinks that the Log Lady's husband is somehow very
key.  An interesting idea.  He supposedly died in a forest fire (walk with me),
and the Log Lady said she couldn't make out the third man the night of the
murder.  Maybe she is covering up for her husband?  Just a thought. . .
Whew.  That is a lot of random rambling, huh?  If anyone can screw up my 
theory, please do!  If anyone can support it further, be my guest.
                     Until next Saturday, 10:00,
                               Dave Pawson
                               dpawson@oracle.com
P.S.  Whatever you do, remember: the owls are not what they seem. . .

Now I don't exactly support the "Maddy is really Laura" theory,
but I know everyone (including Donna) noticed the way that
James and Maddy looked at each other when they were all singing.
And what about the look on Maddy's face when Donna was told that
Harold was on the phone (was I the only one that noticed that?).
Of course this was right before Maddy's vision of BOB, so maybe the
look on her face really had something to do with her vision.

And are Ben and Jerry really going to have Leland killed?
I hope not.  All though I didn't really like Leland at first,
I'd hate to see him killed off now.
--------
I keep thinking about everything, and now I'm
starting to have "Twin Peaks dreams"
but I haven't been able to solve anything yet.

Catch ya later,
Sue  :-)

In article <1990Oct7.214640.1173@theep.boston.ma.us> maj@theep.boston.ma.us (Meryl A. Joseph) writes:
> >Just a few basic thoughts:  
> >
> > - - I am curious why no one has mentioned the extremely likely
> >possibility that BOB is the mysterious shut-in "Mr. Smith", Laura's
> >"friend" on the Meals on Wheels program.
> >
> >- - Also, my boyfriend has said all along that aliens were involved
> >somehow.  BUT, we both think the KILLER is not one of the aliens.  (at
> >least I think that)
> >
> >- - Obviously,  the aliens have established communication with the log - 
> >and hence, the log lady.  
> >
> >- - Does Shelly really want Leo as a vegetable at home with her, so 
> >she and Bobby can "hang donuts from his ears?"  Scaarry kids!
> >
> >- - Something interesting - - Maddy got rid of her glasses, and still
> >is hallucinating re: scary stuff and Killer BOBs.  
> >
> >- - Some great one-liners last night.  My personal favorite:  Jerry
> >to Ben Horne:  "I am 100% certain that we are not sure!"
> > 


--
Chris Lang   |   Univ. of Michigan Engineering   |   chrisl@eecs.umich.edu
635 Hidden Valley Dr., Apt. 218, Ann Arbor, MI  48104         +1 313 663 5126
WORK: National Center for Manufacturing Sciences, 
      900 Victors Way, Suite 226, Ann Arbor, MI, 48108        +1 313 995 0300

kaufman@delta.eecs.nwu.edu (Michael L. Kaufman) writes

>> >>For the Maddy died not Laura people:
>> >>1)Do you really think that Laura would go around disguised for this long?

> >Don't be silly.  If Laura killed Maddy, then she has to spend the rest of her
> >life pretending to be Maddy.  You see, if she suddenly admits that she really
> >is Laura, it kind of makes her a suspect in her cousin's murder.

I never said that Laura killed Maddy.  I didn't even suggest that.  That
was for the people who think Maddie was killed by BOB, instead of Laura.
 

Though that would make an interesting plot twist.

-JHarvey
"I feel like my lips have been taped to the tailpipe of a bus."

Funny blurb in the "People, etc" Q&A column of the Boulder
Sunday Camera,  October 7, 1990.  (This is a column from
Knight-Ridder newspapers, btw.)

     "Has David Lynch ever been to a psychiatrist?
      If so, why didn't he get the
      help he obviously needed?"

The answer goes on to say that DL had gone to a psychiatrist
once, but gave up on it when he found out that exploring his
own psyche could very well deplete his creativity.
-- - Barry Gingrich bgingric@nyx.cs.du.edu

Twin Peaks and David Lynch are taking a bashing in the media.
Most of it seems to center around the fact that we haven't
had the whole Laura thang wrapped up (pun intended) by now. 
The _New York Times_ had a fairly nasty piece revolving
around just this question.  Personally, I don't care a whole
lot anymore about who  killed Laura Palmer.  At least, that's
not my main reason for watching TP.

However, if this were happening in real life, the whole
season+2 episodes of TP would have taken place over only 9
days.  Are all real life murder  investigations completed in
a week?  No way.  Is the problem that most tv murders are
solved within an hour (less with commercials)?

Also, Lynch has been raked over the coals in various manners
for "Wild at Heart." Now, I admit that it wasn't as good as
"Blue Velvet", but it was definitely the best movie I've seen
all year.  I'm no Lynch sycophant, but I think that perhaps
his recent success has really aggravated some of the people
who liked his work before he was fashionable.
-- - Barry Gingrich bgingric@nyx.cs.du.edu

In article <1166@gargoyle.uchicago.edu> rissa@gargoyle.uchicago.edu (Patricia O Tuama) writes:
> >In article <1990Oct7.055750.13024@zip.eecs.umich.edu> chrisl@dip.eecs.umich.edu (Chris Lang) writes:
<<This certainly seems to be what comes to mind after the last episode.  The
<<only trouble is that even if Leland has a split personality, 
<
<Given that the concept of a "split personality" was invented by 
<Hollywood and does not exist in real life, it almost seems rather 
<pointless to speculate on who has one and why.....
<

A brief lecture on abnormal psychiatry:

"Split personalities", or, as the neurosis is more properly known,
Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD), most definitely exists and is
extremely common in victims of childhood abuse, sexual and physical.
People with MPD can have up to dozens of alternate personas whose
purpose in existing is to protect the "core" personality from the
effects of severe childhood trauma. (For a very extreme case, try
reading about the Troops of Truddi Chase.)  These different personas
can have wildly differing temperments, speech patterns, skills,
habits, what have you.  It is entirely possible for one persona of an
MPD sufferer to be a successful lawyer and respected member of his
community, and for another personas to be a psychotic rapist and
killer.

Incidentally, the reason that people get MPD and schizophrenia mixed
up is that another word used to describe the personality of an MPD
sufferer is "schizoid", meaning "split".  This is not the same things
as schizophrenia, which is a serious psychosis.  Incidentally, MPD is
less serious (in terms of functoning in everyday life) than
schizophrenia;  people with MPD have reached a balance, however
tenuous, with a horrible reality, whereas people with schizophrenia
can't interatct with reality at all (for the most part, though
schizophrenia comes in varying degrees of seriousness.)  MPD can also
often be successfully treated with therapy; schizophrenia can only be
treated with drugs, which often cause long-term damage to the brain as
a side effect.  

End of lecture.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled newsgroup...

Jen
--
*******************************************************************************
Jennifer Hawthorne* "Blood sausage, sheep's stomach--
*    Dad, all of Scottish cuisine is based on 
(jen@athena.mit.edu)*  a dare!" -- paraphrased from SNL

Well, I think our newsfeed is back up, so now I can post
again.  Please excuse any duplication of other's
comments...we lost connection for about a week, I guess.

Note:  Possible *SPOILERS* on the first two episodes of
season two.  Consider yourselves warned. 



Anyway, dopey prologue out of the way, I guess I'll comment
on random items in the first two episodes of the second
season.  Without further ado:

- I was very very glad to see Lynch had directed all three
hours.  In my opinion,  the characters suffer at the hands of
others, including Mark Frost.

- Mark Frost's script for the season opener was chock-full of
info, just like  the episode(s?) he wrote for season one. 
Harley Peyton's script for episode 2 was significantly better
overall than the work he did on season one.  He seemed to
have a better hold on the TP characterizations.

- The first episode was a laugh riot!  For a while, at least.
 The old man delivering the milk was a beautiful "Lynchian"
(cf _SPY_ magazine, Nov. 1990) moment. Actually, a lot of
moments.  The way DL can linger on a scene is horribly
unsettling at times, but was horribly funny as well.  My
favorite bit in the show, though, had to be when Leland
(recently possessed by Frank Sinatra, who, oddly enough, is
not yet dead) and his singing inspired Ben and Jerry to dance
like goofballs.   Wonderful.  Albert, of course, is always
good for a laugh, even if they are often cruel ones.

- Speaking of Albert, is he really softening up?  He honestly
seemed concerned about Cooper's health in the second episode.

- After seeing the second episode, I'm positive that the Log
Lady *did* give Donna the "Look into meals on wheels" note. 
The log is obviously tuned in to the same place (outer space,
I suppose) that Coop gets his giants/dwarves/dreams.  I have
this suspicion that more than a few viewers are gonna get
turned off by the  supernatural references.  I know my sister
will be.  I guess some of the really off-the-wall speculation
on the first season in this newsgroup panned out, eh?

- I think Donna's acting so odd because she can sense that
James and Maddie are getting closer and she's trying to do
anything she can to keep him.  This is much more obvious in
the second episode in the living-room singing scene than it
was in the first episode, where I didn't know what the heck
she was up to.

- Hospital food jokes in both episodes.  They seem to be
supplanting the "good food" comments this season.  Also, note
the way Albert turns up his nose at the hospital's
coffee...does this change in TP food quality mirror the
change in many characters from "good" to "bad" and
vice-versa?  (<--- Satire alert.)

- Austin Jack Lynch as the magical little boy.  Spooky enough
to be a Lynch, I suppose...so, is he supernatural, too?  Hoo
boy.

- In Ronette's flashback scene, which I found to be the most
disturbing piece of tv  drama I've ever viewed, I really
think that Laura was enjoying the hell out of  whatever was
going on.  Those primal screams were screams of passion, not
fear or pain.  It is really hard to believe sometimes that
Sheryl Lee plays both Maddie and Laura.  She's good.  K-Bob
is *damn* spooky.  And now Maddie's seen him too...yow.

I could go on and on, but, overall, I'm going to do a lot
less analysis of Twin Peaks this season.  ("Who cares who
killed Laura Palmer?")  The biggest reason I like Twin Peaks
is the characterization.  Ben and Jerry's obsession with food
(the smoked cheese pig was great...), Big Ed's big
luggishness, Audrey's Nancy-Drew-in-a-teddy naivete, and all
the rest.
-- - Barry Gingrich bgingric@nyx.cs.du.edu

In article <1166@gargoyle.uchicago.edu> rissa@gargoyle.uchicago.edu (Patricia O Tuama) writes:
> >Given that the concept of a "split personality" was invented by 
> >Hollywood and does not exist in real life, ...

I don't know who told you this, but they were wrong.  Multiple Personalities
are a documented phenomina.  (No They arn't.)  <Don't listem to him, of course
they are.> {You're so full of it.}  (Shut up, I was talking.) <No, I was.> 
{Quiet, here he comes.}  

Michael


Michael L. Kaufman   || D-D-D-did you see the frightened ones? D-D-D-did you see
kaufman@eecs.nwu.edu || the falling bombs?  D-D-D-did you ever wonder why we had
                     || to run for shelter when the promise of a brave new world
                     || unfurled beneath a clear-blue sky?           "Pink"

In article <1990Oct7.103708.14205@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> elf@dgp.toronto.edu (Eugene Fiume) writes:
> >So, why does that kid magician look like a scale model of David Lynch, and
Could be related to his last name being Lynch. -andy

Nobody has as yet posted this (near as I can tell) but doesn't it seem
somewhat more than coincidental that

 - The main industry in Twin Peaks is the sawmill,

 - Logging interests in the Real World are busily cutting down huge old trees,

 - The main impediment to mass logging of huge old-growth trees is (surprise)
   the Northern Spotted Owl?

Maybe Killer Bob is really an owl spirit sent to punish humans for mindless
destruction of their only viable habitat.  The fingernail-letters "T" and "R"
were meant to eventually spell out "TREES".  If Bob's been around ever since
Leland's youth then maybe there are lots of letters stuck under fingernails
all around the state...

LET'S GET THE LYRICS RIGHT DEP'T:

One-armed man: "... One chants out between two worlds ``FIRE WALK WITH ME'' ..."
^^^^^^^^^^

"Mairzy Doats":

"Mares eat oats and does eat oats and little lambs eat ivy,
 a kid'll eat ivy too, wouldn't you?"

   ^^^  referring to a baby goat of course.  
No word on llama dietary preferences.

You're welcome.

  John

The owls are not what they seem.  Killer Bob is an owl.
Killer Bob is not what he seems (i.e., a killer).  Ergo:  Killer
Bob did not kill Laura Palmer.

Jeffrey St. Clair

   Has anybody considered that perhaps the message the Major delivered to Cooperwas just an attempt by the military to distract the F.B.I from investigating 
their secret project in Twin Peaks?  Maybe BOB is Air Force intelligence and theMajor would rather see Cooper investigate Owls and aliens.
   Oh, to whoever asked, the Diane tapes say nothing about Cooper's partner.

Craig

    "I consider myself a member of the Happy Generation."

1) Military classified means that he is probably the only one who can
read Cooper's reports as he gives them.  Cooper's unbelievable deductive
abilities would have me scared and fast.  Thus the assassination attempt.

2) Hornes' are too business oriented.

3) Diary mentioned BOB, not little Bobby Briggs somewhere in the text.

4) Gut feeling.  They usually work.  Also, the most climatic murder mysteries
have the murderer walking around in plain view, and the goal is to get the
viewer saying How the hell I miss that???  The 3 strong suspects for this
are the Major, the Doctor, and Leland.  There is also mention in the diary
that BOB doesn't have to worry about Mom and Dad finding out.  The doctor
would have had a lot of problems doing the moving about on that night and
performing all those operations, although that might explain how the
psychatrist survived the heart attack in the middle of night with no apparent
witnesses.

Other notes, do you realize how lucky agent Cooper was that he was wearing
that bulletproof vest, but had let it ride up like that.  The killer saw
him land flat on his face, and watched blood pouring out of the wound, and
must have assumed that all 3 bullets had caused the blood.  Otherwise, he
probably would have been rendered unconcious by the 3 bullet hits, the
assassin would not have seen any blood, and then shot Cooper in the head or
something like that...

Andy Pearlman

I just got into this net and have been perusing these
scrutinizations. Why is it automatically assumed that
the identity of the killer is BOB(whomever/whatever that may
be)? True, we all know from the diary that BOB was Laura's
tormentor and was present (?) around the time of her death.
But to jump from that piece of information to the conclusion
that BOB wasted her is to leap over a huge gap that is teeming
with alternate solutions. Or did I happen to go to the bathroom
at precisely the wrong time and miss someone saying that BOB 
dunnit. 
By the way - anyone catch the meaning of the cream corn?
Think about it- what famous company is responsible for making
canned cream corn? (Hint: Green .....)

In article <Oct.7.15.28.21.1990.27638@remus.rutgers.edu> yacullo@remus.rutgers.edu (Mike Yacullo) writes:
> >
> >Has anyone considered the possibility that the message Bobby's father
> >showed Cooper was NOT from outer space, but rather some 'unseen
> >force/personna/whatever'  had simply used Mr. Briggs computer to send
> >a message?

This is what I believe -- it is much more plausible.  Now I know that word
has no meaning when we are talking about Twin Peaks, but I don't think even
David Lynch would try to have us believe that this message was sent from a
distant galaxy, meaning the actual message would have to have been sent
hundreds if not thousands of years before Major Briggs recieved it. (Unless
of course, time travel is involved here).

I think it makes much more sense that some outside person or supernatural being
used this opportunity to send Cooper a message through Briggs, which I think
_is_ significant.

Dave

disclaimer: it's late and there ain't no coffee around here -or
            it's late and i'm TIRED!!
anyway - forgot to put this in my last message to y'all:
How can one say for sure that BOB is the guy that was thrashing
Laura in that oh-so-vivid flashback of Ronnette's?
For my money (which you can't have) BOB is the giant that was play-
ing "stump the FBI guy" with DC. It's as plausible as any other 
theory I've seen so far. Over and in.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
How can I be free?  How can I get out?  And am I really me?
Or am I someone else?

In article <15864@shlump.nac.dec.com> hallyb@globbo.enet.dec.com (John Hallyburton) writes:
> >LET'S GET THE LYRICS RIGHT DEP'T:
> >
> >One-armed man: "... One chants out between two worlds ``FIRE WALK WITH ME'' ..."
> >^^^^^^^^^^
Why do you say that?  Where did you see it?

I think the commonly-accepted transcription makes more sense.

  Within (? my memory fails me) the darkness of future past,
  the magician longs to see
  One way out between two worlds.
  Fire.  Walk with me.

     << Brian >>

| Brian S. Kendig      \ Macintosh |   Engineering,   | bskendig             |
| Computer Engineering |\ Thought  |  USS Enterprise  | @phoenix.Princeton.EDU
| Princeton University |_\ Police  | -= NCC-1701-D =- | @PUCC.BITNET         |
.. s l o w l y,  s l o w l y,  w i t h  t h e  v e l o c i t y  o f  l o v e.

bgingric@isis.UUCP (Barry L. Gingrich) writes:
> >Twin Peaks and David Lynch are taking a bashing in the media.
> >Most of it seems to center around the fact that we haven't
> >had the whole Laura thang wrapped up (pun intended) by now. 
> >The _New York Times_ had a fairly nasty piece revolving
> >around just this question.  

On the other hand, both the main TV critics in the _L.A. Times_
(well, the ones I read, anyway) still rave occasionally about the show.  My
big worry is that if enough critics jump ship, and the audience share stays
pitiful, TP might get cancelled before it runs itself out.  And that would
be a shame.

> >Personally, I don't care a whole
> >lot anymore about who  killed Laura Palmer.  At least, that's
> >not my main reason for watching TP.

I think anybody who watches for the whodunnit is probably not very
happy at this point.  Those of us who still watch religiously have
transcended the WKLP question.

> >
> >Also, Lynch has been raked over the coals in various manners
> >for "Wild at Heart." Now, I admit that it wasn't as good as
> >"Blue Velvet", but it was definitely the best movie I've seen
> >all year.  I'm no Lynch sycophant, but I think that perhaps
> >his recent success has really aggravated some of the people
> >who liked his work before he was fashionable.

You can see the same thing with Matt Groening and _The Simpsons_.
Well, I read _Life in Hell_ many years ago, and I still like _The
Simpsons_.  I don't need to be on the fringe to appreciate the good stuff.


--
Tim Shippert                                  shippert@tybalt.caltech.edu
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to
spell any word."
-Andrew Jackson

Hello, I tend to think the bashing that tp and Lynch are getting
is due to both the show and Lynch being considered a renegade by
the other networks. The last thing NBC or CBS wants to do is have

to raise the levels and production values i.e. single camera, film
vs tape, of its shows. He has set a precedant, and these boys don't
want to follow.. They have lots of money and clout to throw around
the media, and you can bet they will use it if they even get a
hint that they're going to have to spend more of their profits to
remain competitive..

Doug Dulmage

In article <Ub3vPWu00WB5A9vIdw@andrew.cmu.edu> sb2t+@andrew.cmu.edu (Susan Lynn Bowser) writes:
> >Now I don't exactly support the "Maddy is really Laura" theory,
> >but I know everyone (including Donna) noticed the way that
> >James and Maddy looked at each other when they were all singing.
> >And what about the look on Maddy's face when Donna was told that
> >Harold was on the phone (was I the only one that noticed that?).
> >Of course this was right before Maddy's vision of BOB, so maybe the
> >look on her face really had something to do with her vision.

I didn't notice that, but Maddy was certainly looking a lot more
like Laura than like Maddy! I think my thoery that Donna was
putting on an act out of jealousy looks pretty good. She was
essentially back to "nice" this time, though rather lipsticked
during the singing. (and Lord, what singing! How'd he DO that voice?)

> >I keep thinking about everything, and now I'm
> >starting to have "Twin Peaks dreams"
> >but I haven't been able to solve anything yet.

Wow, I thought I was the only one! I had dreams and nightmares
all Saturday night - for some reason the 10/6 episode really
freaked me out - and I could swear I solved it...but like Cooper,
when I woke up, I forgot. Sigh...
-- c2h5oh@ucscb.ucsc.edu | "The answer is, do it yourself and don't keep | asking me."...."I should get C minus for that. | It doesn't seem to bear much relevence to the sum."

In article <12378@chaph.usc.edu>, luisr@aludra.usc.edu (Luis Ramos) writes:
> > Here is part of a transcript from the first scene in last night's show
> > in which Cooper and Albert are having breakfast. I am posting it for
> > everyone's reference. According to Coop, there is some connection to the
> > LP murder case.
 
Sorry, this doesn't really have to do with why Agent Cooper espouses 
Buddhism, but what I really noticed during that scene was their (Albert and
Agent Cooper's) respective lapel pins.  Albert is wearing an American flag,
and Cooper (although you can't tell unless you saw the same thing on a 
close-up of the cover of US magazine) is wearing a crane, which is a
common Buddhist symbol.

Nice subtle touch.

I'm using secret diary info here.  Don't blame me if you read this. :)


Who's seen BOB?  This list ignores what the giant says about 3 have 
seen him blah blah etc...

  1) Laura            for at least 6 years.
  2) Ronette          train car.  May have heard about him from Laura too.
  3) Sarah Palmer     Vision(s) (donna + top of stairs)
  4) Cooper           his dream.
  5) Madeline         vision (haywards + fire).  Probably earlier ones. 
  6) Leland Palmer    met BOB as a child at the lake. (just like Laura! hmm..)
and maybe
  7) One Armed Mike   Coop's dream implies mike knows BOB in a very big way.

Who else knew about BOB prior to the murder?

  8) Log Lady         knows about owls being big, children being victims.
  9) LL's husband/log/giant/tree This spirit seems to know something about BOB.
 10) harold smith     strange bird tells him he'll die if he goes out. owl?
                      Laura tells harold alot of things.  maybe BOB, maybe not
                      Harold has the secret diary, if he read it he knows lots
 11) Leo              perhaps he saw BOB the night Laura was murdered. nah.
 12) Pierre Tremond   Laura told this magic kid a bit about BOB
 13) Jacoby           might have learned about BOB from Laura during counceling.
 14) James            "Do you want to play with fire?  Want to play with BOB?"
 15) Bobby            Bobby might have caught a little about BOB from Laura.
 16) Johnny Horne     Hey.  Stop laughing.  I'm serious here.  maybe  :)

random thoughts:  maddy and sarah have had weird dreams for a very long time.
Leo tells laura that he hears voices in the woods.  Jacques is 6 feet under.
I think one armed mike is the one the giant says is ready to talk about BOB.

BOB is not a simple physical being.  I think he's an evil spirit who
likes to hang out inside owls and Leland from time to time, and was 
almost done taking over Laura when she died.  Poor Leland and Laura.
I'll elaborate more about BOB in my next (hopefully less messy) post.


Michael Kaye         horny@ucscb.ucsc.edu
"Dad took off all his clothes and shouted, `It's a dream ...
 Fucking relax would you?`"   --L

Does anyone else feel that Ben and Jerry Horne are really unusually
close for brothers?  I don't know any two brothers who are as close
and consistantly in agreement about everything as they are.

#Ron

Prediction: Patty Duke killed Laura Palmer. It seems Ms. Duke is insanely
jealous of ANY identical cousins on television.

And now, on a *slightly* more serious subject...We have the owls, Deputy
"Hawk", Waldo the *amazingly* verbal mynah...any other bird references? Some
have made the 'Ben & Jerry Horne => horned owls' leap...one (not myself, of
course) could also make a 'Blackie => blackbird' jump, if one were so inclined.

If Maddy is actually Laura trying for a 'new life', what (besides tight
scripting, of course) is keeping her in Twin Peaks? It would certainly seem
safer for her to be living with the Fergusons than with the Palmers.

A side-plot this season may become "Who's gonna kill Albert Rosenfield?" Miguel
Ferrer is doing a GREAT job...easily MY vote for favourite TP character!

Far left-field, and certainly NOT a theory I believe in (but fun speculation
anyway): If the 'Dale Cooper is really his flipped-out parner making it all up
in his head 'cause he's over the edge' theory pans out, you could say these
characters have 'flown the Coop'. (sorry)

How 'bout that James Hurley? He sure gets good bass & percussion from a single
guitar with a small amp, no? :)

While I'm here...I'd really like to find an ftp site with TP GIF files. If you
know of one, PLEASE post or let me know. Thanks.

_Twin Peaks_: Think of it as _A Prarie Home Companion_ for the disturbed. :)

---
Sorry...I can't sign it with *these* things!

In article <1990Oct7.114315.1@acad3.fai.alaska.edu> fsejo@acad3.fai.alaska.edu (Eric Olson) writes:
> >And while I'm at it, let me add that I don't think I can handle the frustration
> >of seeing whatsername's not to Special Agent under his bed anymore.  

Well, it sure doesn't say much for the maid service at the Great
Northern, does it?  (Knowing Lynch, he'd show us the maid carefully
replacing the note under the bed each day after cleaning...)

-- "Well! Is somebody a teensy bit low on self-esteem ===== Tom Neff today?" -- Irwin [|||] tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM "Shuddup. Go away. Scram. Get lost." -- Broom Hilda [|||] uunet!bfmny0!tneff

  AUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
<THUNK THUNK THUNK>
 
  Are you people DELIBERATELY trying to find as many ways as possible to
circumvent my ignore settings on Twin peaks?!
 
  I love the series. I watch it intensely. I'm trying to convert Debbie Brown
to it, even. But I only wanna read about it on alt.tv.twin-peaks.
  So of course, someone has to post messages with the title "TwinPeaksTheories"
which is OBVIOUSLY and only for the reason to get past my ignore strings!
 
  Ok, someone is going to DIE for this! I swear! Killer Bob ain't nothin'
compared to MY wrath!!
 
 
(Take half a smilie and lemme alone)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
     CARL%NUCENG.DECNET@PINE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU  -  "Here, have a scooby snack."  
"There's a big difference between making instant coffee and bringing a dead 
 Rastafarian back to life!"                 --Tubs, Miami Vice 
                     (HEADBANGERS DO IT AGAINST THE WALLS!) 
   [*DISCLAIMER* - Contents is not connected with UF or NucEng department.]

I suspect a lot of people don't know about "Mairzy Doats."  It was a
popular novelty song of about 60 years ago.  The gimmick is that it's a
slurring of this:

Mares eat oats, and does* eat oats
And little lambs eat ivy
A kid'll** eat ivy too
Wouldn't you?

etc.

Just retro, nerdy and weird enough for Lynch and Frost to use.

____________________

Explanations for our functionally illiterate friends:

 * plural of female deer

** infant goat

-- A doubled signature is the devil's work. ** Tom Neff <tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM>
-- A doubled signature is the devil's work. ** Tom Neff <tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM>

Upon Albert's return, Andy gets face-spanked by the board, and
Albert removes his glasses THREE (3) times: twice in the distance
while standing beneath the tree, and once in his first close-up.

Eat a smoked-cheese pig.

In article <90277.224431G99HC@CUNYVM.BITNET> <G99HC@CUNYVM> writes:
> >
> >hey, i watch twin peaks, and i think its cool.
> >but u gotta realize, we're spending more time analyzing
> >this on netnews than we do watching the show.
> >probably more than we spend with our loved ones.
   Hey! Speak for yourself! I analyze Twin Peaks with MY loved ones. That's
what's know as =quality time=   :)
> >WE'RE LOSING OUR MINDS!!!!
   But why are we given minds, if not to loose them?
> >its getting like a joke, like when they all watch
> >that inane soap opera, "Another World." on the show
> >we all laugh at that, right? its very cute.
> >does the name Dr. Brian O'Blivion ring a bell?
   Okay, I give up. YES, it rings a bell. Now who the hell is he?!?
> >so kill me.
   Bang.

-- _ _ _ The Rule of Fives: All things happen in 5s or multiples of / ) ) ) / 5 or are in some way directly or indirectly related to 5. / / / __/_> "The harder I look the more I find this to be true." / ( (_/(_) \ -Malaclypse the Elder, KSC

   Now, we finaly know what the Major's job is. He is an interstellar Mailman.

"My log has something to say. Do You know it?"
"No we haven't been introduced."
"I do not introduce the log. Can you hear what it says?"
"No Maam, I cannot."
"Then I shall translate. Deliver the Message."

   That may have been from memory, but one ting is clear. That chunk of wood,
or maybe the lady herself is very sensitive to messages from the aether.

   Somehow, I missed the point of this post. I have accepted that this is a
supernatural thriller instead of a murder mystery, but outer space wasn't
in that description either. What next? Aliens come down from outer space
and tell Cooper who killed Laura Palmer? That's it! The Giant is an alien!

   I lost my grip on reaity LONG ago, but now I feel like I'm starting to
loose my grip on Twin Peaks. And TP is so much simpler than reality... Oh,
well. Life is like being run over by a semi.


-- _ _ _ The Rule of Fives: All things happen in 5s or multiples of / ) ) ) / 5 or are in some way directly or indirectly related to 5. / / / __/_> "The harder I look the more I find this to be true." / ( (_/(_) \ -Malaclypse the Elder, KSC

In article <39272@eerie.acsu.Buffalo.EDU>, v22964qs@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Mike Cluff) writes:
> > In article <1990Oct5.115617.1@acad3.fai.alaska.edu>, fssrk1@acad3.fai.alaska.edu writes...
>> >>dear dorks 
>> >> you  guys seem to be overanalyzing  this completely
>> >>and i think that for the most part the better half of you are stupid
>> >>and that Twin Peaks is not different thaN days of our lives
>> >>well the point im trying to make is  to shut  up cause none
>> >>of you no nothing. i rule i know everything 
>> >>     thank  you 
>> >>     Sean  
> > 
> > Can I be the first?  Oh, pleeeeeze?  Okay, here goes...
> > 
> > "Look, it's trying to think!"
> > 

I hope Sean doesn't read rec.arts.startrek.

Chris
(what's significant about copious spelling errors, anyway)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher J. Foster cfoster@eagle.wesleyan.edu or cfoster@wesleyan.bitnet

Excerpted from FASA's latest, banned edition of the _Star_Fleet_
_Intelligence_Manual_, "Common Codewords" section--
"CONDITION TURQUOISE: Declared when the interior of a Federation
                      starship has been violently redecorated."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

About that kid with the creamed corn fetish:

    He said something in French(?) What does it translate to in English?
  
    (I missed the credits.) Is he David Lynch's son/grandson or clone?


Mark Holtholtm@dg-rtp.dg.com          
Data General Corporation...!uunet!dg-rtp.dg.com!holtm
62 T.W. Alexander Drive | these opinions are MINE, all MINE
Research Triangle Park, NC  27709 | "Ben! You are so f*^%ing suave."

In article <185@ncmicro.lonestar.org> ltf@ncmicro.lonestar.org (Lance Franklin) writes:


   Don't know, but I can't help but associate this name with the Television
   show "The Fugitive".  The obvious reference is the one-armed man, but
   the name Philip Michael Gerard strikes a cord.  Does anybody know if
   any of the characters on The Fugitive had the name?

   Lance


The police inspector obsessed with the capture of Dr. Richard Kimble
(The Fugitive) was Philip Gerard (I don't know what his middle name
was).  

--
              -- Nick

Well, Clarice, have the lambs stopped screaming?  [...]  I won't be
surprised if the answer is yes and no.  The lambs will stop for now.
But, Clarice, you judge yourself with all the mercy of the dungeon
scales at Threave; you'll have to earn it again and again, the blessed
silence.  Because it's the plight that drives you, seeing the plight,
and the plight will not end, ever.
                                     Hannibal Lecter

In article <39395@eerie.acsu.Buffalo.EDU>, pjg@acsu.buffalo.edu (Paul
Graham) writes:
|>nope we don't want any creamed corn here.

Did that kid look a bit Eraserhead-ish or what?

And, we get yet another character: the mysterious Mr. Smith in the
next cabin.

And, we also get Cooper's ex-partner escaping from the nut house.
That's 2 new loose ends. Just what we needed.

|>sperm banks save [sperm] whales and sterile folks don't need to bathe.

That was funny. Lucy's character sure was put into a different light.
First, the dumbness not to let that call to Truman through - WE know
that was an important call (I'm betting it was Leland calling to say
he knew who BOB was). And then how she got preggers even though Andy's
equipment ain't working.

Another funny bit was the hospital stools in Ronnette's room. Nice
touch. You expect that scene to get heavy right away, and they pull
this sight gag with the stools.

And Andy fighting with the tape. Another cute little sight gag.

|>ok i admit i didn't think it could get any weirder.  so i was wrong.
|>
|>but i was right about the space aliens.

Geez ... I don't know about adding that bit. I suppose it's possible
that the Major's equipment just picked up on some heavy psychic
activity, but if this ends up being Plan 10 from Outer Space, I
think people will be really pissed off.

...

I guess next week Cooper will do his Lone Ranger bit and rescue Audrey.
They've got that all nicely set up. They're really wasting her character
keeping her out at OEJ's, wardrobe improvementst aside.

Interesting the way that mysterious oriental was eyeing Cooper. Like
maybe he was surprised Coop was alive.

Are all the Palmer women psychic or something? They all seem to have
these visions of BOB.

And I guess Shelly and Bobby will live of Leo's insurance and "hang
donuts from his ears". Ain't young love wonderful?

I think Leland's reaction to BOB's picture, and Ronnette's recollection
kind of let Leland off the hook. Which doesn't make him any more sane.
Maybe it's Coop's ex-partner. Sheesh what a mess.

-MSM
____________________________________________________________________________
Mark S. Miller      UUCP: msmiller@Sun.COM      "In a nation ruled by swine,
                                                all pigs are upward mobile."
Disclaimer: I work for me, so do my words.             - Hunter S. Thompson

In article <1990Oct8.013419.12931@isis.cs.du.edu> bgingric@isis.UUCP (Barry L. Gingrich) writes:
> >- After seeing the second episode, I'm positive that the Log
> >Lady *did* give Donna the "Look into meals on wheels" note. 

Donna left Harold a note to call her.  He calls.  One of the
first things Donna says on the phone was "I got your's".  I
assumed that to mean that the note she got in the RR Diner was 
from Harold.  (Perhaps the Log Lady delivered it, or Norma).

-- Scott Amspoker Basis International, Albuquerque, NM (505) 345-5232 unmvax.cs.unm.edu!bbx!bbxsda!scott

During Ronette's vision, we see a fade-in of Bob running and screaming into
some building. "Outside", it was black/dark. The doorway that he came 
through was a double-door entranceway, framed with dark wood, with yellowish
walls. We only see the structure for about 1 second due to the closing-in
upon Bob. When I wondered as to what building it could be, the only one which
came to mind was the "town hall" (where the town gathered to here Cooper's
announcement, and the only place where we saw Mayor Milford..). I thought
of it only because of its similarity in structure (if I remember it cor-
rectly..) rather than any underlying significance of the town hall itself.

Any thought's on this? After episode #10 (10/6/90), I realize that it *could*
have been the Hayward's due to Madeline's vision... 

No theories on this one yet....


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------    
"Looks like a new pair of boots.....
"Leo needs a new pair of boots!...
"Well, I'm here to sell him some shoes...
 
"Shoes?..."fnord@wam.umd.edu

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------