Season 2, Episodes 21–22: Miss Twin Peaks / Beyond Life and Death — June 10, 1991–August 27, 1992

In article <1991Jun20.031338.9583@unislc.uucp> dave@unislc.uucp (Dave Martin) writes:
>From article <1991Jun18.163629.13709@watdragon.waterloo.edu>, by kjmcrae@lotus.waterloo.edu (Kevin McRae):
.
> >
> >Did anyone else notice when the "log lady" (WE in disguise) "moved" across
> >the room from the bar to near the exit.  The guy form the weasle incident
> >who was bugging him reached over into empty air and bobby who looked over
> >toward the bar, saw the "log lady" turned toward the exit, saw the "log
> >lady" looked back toward the bar, no "log lady".  I haven't rewatched it
> >yet to see if I saw this right, but I haven't seen anyone else mention it
> >so I thought I would.
> >-- 

The first "log lady" , the one that Pinkle was hitting on, was the real one.
The second one, the one that Bobby talked to, was WE in disguise. It only 
appeared that she moved VERY fast because that the real log lady
left and when Bobby turned around, there was Windam Earle!


     ///  Jill Johnson
    ///   UUCP: pjohnson@jabba
\\\///    Amiga 2500 - TeleBit T2500
 \XX/     Windsor Ontario Canada

erics@sco.COM (eric smith) writes:

> >The first time we see Annie in the BL, Cooper sees her lying on the
> >floor with himself, both covered in blood. She starts to sit up and
> >her movements are very zombie-like, as if she were an animated corpse.

The point in the final episode when Annie comes to Cooper ostensibly
to get advice (but they end up in the sack), she says something like,
"I don't want to look like a demented babie-doll."  I thought of this
statement when I saw here zombie-ized in the BL.

> >-----
> >Eric Smith         |  "If the automobile had followed the same development as
> >erics@sco.com      |   the computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get
> >erics@infoserv.com |   a million miles per gallon, and explode once a year
> >CI$: 70262,3610    |   killing everyone inside."  Robert Cringely/InforWorld

-- Christopher L. Russell (yonderboy) Phone: (408)378-9078 Campbell,CA yonder@netcom.COM or clr40@amail.amdahl.com or chrisr@leland.stanford.edu

Sorry, you're right. The voice said "I'm in the Black Lodge with Agent
Cooper," not Laura Palmer. Jeez, I hope I don't get 4,888 follow-ups 
correcting me....|-:

Ron Morgan
osmigo@emx.utexas.edu

Just FYI--

In an earlier posting that I can't seem to find, I mentioned (as
did someone else) that the major is only looking for the white lodge, and 
has not yet found it.  After reviewing episodes after the major's
disappearance, I found that he did in fact mention 
that he believed he had been taken to the white lodge.
Apparently, this would mean that the hooded figure
is either a "member" of the white lodge or at least a "gatekeeper" of 
some sort-- and perhaps not an evil entity after all.


Rocky Giovinazzo

From article <4198@dali>, by ieevlsi2@ming.cs.montana.edu (VLSI):

> - Mr. Eckhart's assistant, Jones, delivered the key. Perhaps she
> - also placed the bomb and note.
> What language is it that Jones and Eckhart work speaking when they
> first arrived in TP? Sounded like Russian to me. Don't know if

South African.

Hans Mulder
hansm@dutecah.et.tudelft.nl

In article <PVOSSLER.91Jun21140004@exua.exua.exeter.ac.uk> PVossler@exua.exeter.ac.uk (Phil Vossler) writes:

> > The final episode of the current series of T.P. was shown on BBC 2 in
> > the U.K.  last Tuesday. I'd like to know if the rumour I have heard
> > that the last episode in the U.S. was a two hour marathon is true. If
> > so that explains why there were odd threads left dangling in the fifty
> > minute finale we were presented with. My impression was that it had
> > been hacked dowb to wrap up the series in one showing.

No what happen was that the last two episodes in the UK (11th and 18th 
of June) where shown together as one long episode in the US on the 10th
June.  As far as I can I am aware the UK got the same footage but
over two weeks.  For those of you in the US, the split was made just
after Annie was abducted and lights came on.  Andie says to Cooper
"Its a map".

So those threads really are hanging both here and in the US.

Alan

Alan W Black                          80 South Bridge, Edinburgh, UK
Dept of Artificial Intelligence       tel: (+44) -31 650 2713
University of Edinburgh               email: awb@ed.ac.uk

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ieevlsi2@ming.cs.montana.edu (VLSI) writes:

> >- Mr. Eckhart's assistant, Jones, delivered the key. Perhaps she
> >- also placed the bomb and note.
> >What language is it that Jones and Eckhart work speaking when they
> >first arrived in TP?  Sounded like Russian to me.  Don't know if
> >it's relevant.  Did anyone ever figure out why she tried to kill
> >Truman - other than that Josie had probably given him lots of secrets?

In article <91172.153329SML108@psuvm.psu.edu> SML108@psuvm.psu.edu (Scott the Great) writes:
> >Anyone ever catch David Lynch`s cameo in Dune?
> >
> >Scott

YES! He was the communnications guy on the spice harvester!!

--

     ///  Jill Johnson
    ///   UUCP: pjohnson@jabba
\\\///    Amiga 2500 - TeleBit T2500
 \XX/     Windsor Ontario Canada

The Log Lady's husband died in a fire shortly after their wedding. She received
the log from her husband as a wedding present.  In the final episode however
Coop had her bring in a jar of oil that her husband brought to her before he
died.  So did he go to Glastonberry Grove and see Bob or the BL/WL before his
death??  

Is her husband's spirit in the log as we saw Josie in dresser knob.  Pete
Martell saw Josie in the Great Northern after her death, could Margaret
Lanterman (Yes thats her full name) be hearing the voice of her late husband in
the log?  Seems odd but until I watched the WL/BL scene in the final episode>> 
Anyway I hope this is accurate and helps!


Don Kasprzak
UToledo

In article <1991Jun21.100225@aifh.ed.ac.uk> bjr@aifh.ed.ac.uk (Brian J Ross) writes:
> >In article <240@eclectic.COM>, justice@eclectic.COM (Hilary K. Justice) writes:
> ># Did anyone else notice a similarity between the chairs in
> ># the "waiting room" and the ones that were knocked around
> ># by the flood of blood from the elevators in _The Shining_?
> >
> >I think Lynch has a phobia of old 1930-era furniture.  _Eraserhead_,
> >_Blue Velvet_, _The Shining_, and _Wild at Heart_ all feature cruddy 
> >furniture.
> >
I agree that Lynch has an emotional relationship with the look of a 
certain era, but I would have guess the 50's.  In the red room of Twin Peaks
and in Wild at Heart, the locations of decay, the degenerating places
are tricked out in the worst examples of tawdry, mouldering 50-60 stuff.
I'm not into the history of interior decorating so I can't tell you the
exact period.
 
a.h.

In article <11227@castle.ed.ac.uk> bob@castle.ed.ac.uk (Bob Gray) writes:
> >ABienek@acorn.co.uk (Alex Bienek) writes:
> >
> >Watch the last episode again and remember
> >That everything contains its opposite.
> >That BOB is fire.
> >Hawk's description of the lodges.
> >What the Major is most afraid of.
> >The Log Lady's husband, and how he died.
> >And of course, why the traffic lights are there, and why Dr.
> >Jacoby wears those glasses.
> >Bob.


Ok. I've watched the episode and thought about those things but I'm still
no farther ahead.  Fill us in, please.
 
a.h.

In article <1991Jun20.225422.16229@daimi.aau.dk> pilgrim@daimi.aau.dk (Jakob G}rdsted) writes:
> >shephard@newsserver.sfu.ca (Gordon Shephard) writes:
>> >> 
>> >> Grin.  I wonder how many thousands of people ran to their TV during the
>> >> credits with their Head upside down.  Yes.  It was Laura.
> >
 
So Laura in a coffee cup. What the heck does *that* mean?!
 
All I could think of was an old Carly Simon hit: You're So Vain.
And the lines, "I had some dreams, they were clouds in your coffee, clouds 
in your coffee and you're so vain you prob'ly think this song is
about you."
 
I never forgot those lines because
1) what the hell are clouds in coffee?   
2) the song *was* about him.  :-)
 
a.h.

In article <1991Jun21.224028.16150@cadence.com> phz@cadence.com (Pete Zakel) writes:
> >In article <1991Jun11.223430.11800@risky.ecs.umass.edu> giovin@medr0.ecs.umass.edu (Rocky J Giovinazzo) writes:
> >}In article <13009@uwm.edu> gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu writes:
> >}>
> >
> >I think there are an infinite number of rooms.  Remember that when Coop was
> >trying to escape he went through the rooms in reverse order, and I believe
> >he went out through the same number of rooms he came in.  All the rooms
> >are identical, except for presence/lack of furniture and relative power
> >of good/evil (White/Black) influence -- although both of these could just be
> >canards.
> >

Bob is an a building with many rooms all the same, surrounded by trees.
Sounds like Mike's description of Bob's location for the past thirty 
years and 
of the black lodge too.

In article <2938@sumax.seattleu.edu> gkull@sumax.seattleu.edu (Greg Kull) writes:
> >One thought on the engine oil...didn't the coffee that Coop spilled from
> >his cup (the viscous fluid) in the waiting room have the look and feel of
> >that oil? Very strong coffee!

Or it could indicate Bob's growing skills and control over everyday
reality and not just over the "reality" of the Blacck Lodge.
 
Bob could have been playing with the coffee while watching Cooper and
Annie together.
 
a.h.

Just for the record....

Since everybody is slinging the word around like they've used it forever,
isn't the word "doppELganger" and not "doppLEganger"?

Don't mean to be picky, but oh well.

Keith

I checked the tape very carefully.  Nobody in that vault was wearing glasses.

I think this was a continuity screw-up.

--bob pellegrino

    It seems to me that a lot of people have forgotten the true meaning of
most of the symbols in the first dream sequence.  Let me just clear up the ones
I can think of offhand.  The last about the birds singing and music in the air
refers to the cabin in the woods, which incidentally has red curtains, because
of Waldo the mynah bird and the perpetually playing records.  I won't even
comment on the way people have used these to rationalize the BL sequences, but
it seems more like coincidence than foreshadowing two seasons in advance.  I
am still confused about the reason people equate the LMFAP with BOB.  When has
he ever done anything to scare or harm Cooper.  Come to think of it, he always
seems to provide helpful clues to what is forthcoming.  And he doesn't ever
refer to himself--- he says things as other people might.  "She's my cousin."
This is why I still feel that "The next time you see me, it won't be me." is
about Cooper's possession, and not himself.  The fact that LMFAP has an evil
doppelganger is, I think, another clue, as is the word "doppleganger" itself.

_________________________________________________________________________
|                  |                                                    |
|KYLE R. KROM      | Disclaimer:  If I had any ideas of my own, they    |
|PENN STATE UNIV   |              would be mine, but these belong to    |
|krk4@psuvm.psu.edu|              the general public.                   |
|__________________|____________________________________________________|

|>Subject: The Shining?

|>
|>redroom
|>RedRoom RedRoom
|>REDROOM REDROOM REDROOM!!!
|>

No, no, no.  That was "Redrum, Redrum!"  as in Murder spelled backwards.

--bob

When the bomb exploded in the safe deposit box, it seemed that we 
could see the beginning of the bomb flash. Since I do not have the episode on
tape, I cannot double-check to see if this is the case, or if the flame was
only the ignition of the fuse. I would that a (reliable and simple) booby-trap
bomb would be detonated electrically. This means that the bomb flashed right in
Pete and Andrew's face, so they would be goners (or at the very least blind,
deaf and all kinds of damage). The same goes for Audrey.

The one thing about the explosion that was silly was when the windows
were blown out. If I remember correctly, the force with which the glass was
shattered was pretty lame, for the explosion just looked like dust pouring out
of the windows. However, any explosion large enough to cause the windows to
break would have caused enough of a blast (especially at point blank, in an
enclosed room like the vault) to kill Pete and Andrew.

As for the possibility of anyone getting out of the way of the bomb: 
Since I think the bomb either exploded almost instantly, or maybe five seconds
after the door was opened (if a fuse were used) that is not enough time to get
away. I think the explosion was delayed only long enough to allow the reading
of the note, and the two guys certainly took long enough to stand there and
read it. I don't think those guys would have been responsive enough to an
approaching steamroller, let alone an exploding bomb. There would never have
been enough time to free Audrey from the bars. It may be possible that she
survived, but most certainly without being deaf or otherwise gravely injured.

Well, at any rate, who knows? It might not even be important if the "promised"
movie is not a continuation of the plot (wouldn't THAT be a drag?).
I guess we won't know until the Lynch/Frost crew tells us (if they do).

Keith Ball,  "You gotta work real hard to get outta this garbage can,
"The Bum with a B.S."    The banker won't admit he's just a garbage man."
-Death of Samantha

It was my thought that perhaps in the white lodge when they said "One and the
Same..."  they were referring to the Black Lodge and the White Lodge being
the same thing or the same location. Am I completely on the wrong track??

Reply directly to this user name...do not post replies on the board..I will
never see them!

Thanks...
Ally

So when is the release of the BL/WL/Red Room video game?

Keith Ball             "You gotta work real hard to get outta this garbage can;
 The banker won't admit he's just a garbage man."
-Death of Samantha

In article <91174.213844KRK4@psuvm.psu.edu> KRK4@psuvm.psu.edu writes:

> >it seems more like coincidence than foreshadowing two seasons in advance.  I
> >am still confused about the reason people equate the LMFAP with BOB.  When has
> >he ever done anything to scare or harm Cooper.  Come to think of it, he always
> >seems to provide helpful clues to what is forthcoming.  And he doesn't ever

I don't equate BOB and the LMFAP either, but I think that this is where
people who do equate them are coming from:  The LMFAP danced over 
Eckhardt's bed after BOB finished mocking Cooper.  Also, in the 
1st Thursday night episode of 1991, Coop had a little summary of 
what had happened recently and ended his speech with something like,
"the midget, BOB, the black lodge... Is there a connection?"  Of course,
the connection is at least that #1 and #2 are found at #3, but 
it's not unreasonable to suspect more than this.

Rocky Giovinazzo

In article <23780@shlump.lkg.dec.com> bobp@muffn.enet.dec.com (Bob Pellegrino) writes:
> >I checked the tape very carefully.  Nobody in that vault was wearing glasses.
> >I think this was a continuity screw-up.

The old man who worked at the bank may not have still been "in" the
vault, but he certainly was wearing those glasses.  I don't think that
someone had to be in the vault to be effected by the blast either.
Those windows were certainly not in the vault, right?  Who ever
heard of a vault with windows? 


Rocky Giovinazzo

In article <AWB.91Jun23135543@stoat.uk.ac.ed.aipna>, awb@ed.ac.uk (Alan W Black) writes:
|> In article <PVOSSLER.91Jun21140004@exua.exua.exeter.ac.uk> PVossler@exua.exeter.ac.uk (Phil Vossler) writes:
|> 
|> > The final episode of the current series of T.P. was shown on BBC 2 in
|> > the U.K.  last Tuesday. I'd like to know if the rumour I have heard
|> > that the last episode in the U.S. was a two hour marathon is true. If
|> > so that explains why there were odd threads left dangling in the fifty
|> > minute finale we were presented with. My impression was that it had
|> > been hacked dowb to wrap up the series in one showing.

Remember that in the US the show was interspersed with adverts, which we, 
watching the good old BBC, did not have. That would take quite a few 
minutes off the actual show time over two hours.

-- ============================================================================== Hazel Sydeserff |"What sad times are these when passing Centre for Speech Technology Research | ruffians can say `Ni!' at will to 80, South Bridge, EDINBURGH EH1 1HN | old ladies." - Roger the Shrubber, MPHG

In article <23780@shlump.lkg.dec.com>, bobp@muffn.enet.dec.com (Bob Pellegrino) writes:
|> I checked the tape very carefully.  Nobody in that vault was wearing glasses.
|> 
|> I think this was a continuity screw-up.

Haven't I posted this before..?
The bank chappie (old guy who watched as AH cuffed herself to the bars) wore 
ENORMOUS glasses, so I thought it was a typical ^TP^ joke when they flew 
out of the window after the blast.
No?

-- ============================================================================== Hazel Sydeserff |"What sad times are these when passing Centre for Speech Technology Research | ruffians can say `Ni!' at will to 80, South Bridge, EDINBURGH EH1 1HN | old ladies." - Roger the Shrubber, MPHG

In <23781@shlump.lkg.dec.com> bobp@muffn.enet.dec.com (Bob Pellegrino) writes:

> >|>Subject: The Shining?

> >|>
> >|>redroom
> >|>RedRoom RedRoom
> >|>REDROOM REDROOM REDROOM!!!
> >|>

> >No, no, no.  That was "Redrum, Redrum!"  as in Murder spelled backwards.

Actually, Redroom, is Moorder, which is pretty close to Tolkein's Mordor:

Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
  Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
  One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie
  One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
  One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Mordor where Shadows lie.

> >--bob
-- -- John Hawkinson jhawk@panix.com

> > 
> > Michael Ointken (aka Sheriff Truman) appeared on breakfast TV here in
> > the UK and said that - wait for it - (standby for groans of
> > disappointment):
> > 
> > 
> > Filming of TP the movie will start later this summer.
> > 
> > IT WILL BE RETROSPECTIVE - ie. IT WILL BE DEALING WITH THE EVENTS
> > IN THE WEEK LEADING UP TO LAURA`S DEATH! 
> > 
> > How they thus plan to fit Coop / Albert / Annie into the plot, god,
> > sorry David Lynch only knows.
> > 
> > So the final tv episode of TP might not be resolved (cue sounds of heads
> > being bashed against walls, etc.).
> > 
> > Yet more gnashing of teeth and wailing! Mr. Lynch - don`t keep us wound
> > up like this!
> > 
> > Paul R. Grove.
> > 
> > University of Keele.
> > 
> > iru03@uk.ac.keele.seq1
> > 
> > "Tell me about your home world Usul".
> > "Chani - it had damn fine cherry pie".

Reading Coop's biography, did anyone else notice the "man in blue" Coop
saw on the university campus before the finding of the fingers, seems to
bear an uncanny resemblane to BOB (who always appears in blue denim)?
Note also his mother's dreams about birds (cf. links with owls?) - does
this all point to the fact that BOB has been part of Coop's life since
he was a child?

RE. final episode - when the giant said "one and the same", I got the
impression that he was referring to Droolcup (note the similar dress
styles), or am I barking up the wrong pine tree?

And what about the 2 hour TV special as hinted about in the Daily
Telegraph? I think that this is not referring to the film.

Comments?

Paul R. Grove.

iru03@uk.ac.keele.seq1

"Tell me about your home world Usul".
"Chani - it had damn fine cherry pie".

In your sig...  Is that yet another Buckaroo Banzai quote?  Great!!

Is it just me, or do some of you others see a thread in BB, Repo Man, and *all*
of David Lynch's stuff?

Dan Penkauskas   danp@beach.csulb.edu

awb@ed.ac.uk (Alan W Black) writes:
> >over two weeks.  For those of you in the US, the split was made just
> >after Annie was abducted and lights came on.  Andie says to Cooper
> >"Its a map".

And the opening titles of the next (last) episode were run
over Andy and Lucy discussing the lights going out. Titles
end, cut to Cooper looking at blackboard drawing of the
petroglyph.
Bob.

> > been enough time to free Audrey from the bars. It may be possible that she
> > survived, but most certainly without being deaf or otherwise gravely injured.

MAYBE IN THE NEXT SERIES AUDREY IS GOING TO SPEAK LIKE GORDON!

-- Dave

/ hpopd:alt.tv.twin-peaks / alan@ikkyu.Eng.Sun.COM (Alan Marr, Animation) / 11:57 pm  Jun 11, 1991 /

> >...
> >Remember he voluntarily took up Bob's offer (made
> >through Windam) of trading his soul for Annie's life.
> >...

I'd read what happened more literally - that when Windom made the offer BOB
had not yet taken Windom's soul.

Neither am I convinced that BOB does indeed have Cooper's soul.

Richard.

Most of the people who have watched twin-peaks have the opinion, that
the Black and the White Lodge are different places. And of course this
fact courses a great lot of confusion.

However the Black and White Lodge are ONE AND THE SAME.

If you doubt this fact, then just watch the floor of the Lodge.

Also,
The LMFAP and Laura Palmer are ONE AND THE SAME.
Remember Dale Coopers dream where the LMFAP says:
"Watch out for my cousin (Maddy)" and
"We look just like each other"
Actually Laura Palmer and Maddy are the same actor.

The Giant and the old senile waiter at the Great Nortehrn
are ONE AND THE SAME.
Remember every time the giant showed himself, it was in some kind of
connection with the old senile waiter.

Annie and Coroline are ONE AND THE SAME.
I think this comes clear, when you see the scene from the Lodge
where those shift around in front of Cooper.

And of course
Dale Cooper and Windom Earle are ONE AND THE SAME.
Earle asks Cooper "Will you give up your soul for her" but
Earle cannot ask for Coopers soul because they are the same.
But then Bob replies
"You cannot ask for his soul, but I will take his" (Earles)
And then the great chase begins, which ends with Cooper/Earle being
caught.

Bob is not an inhibitant of the Lodge, he is just a personification of
evil, and therefore he exists in both our world and the Lodge.

As mentioned the two Lodges are the same.
The Lodge is not a place of badness, but of course a mix of good and
bad, because one of those cannot exist seperately.
The Lodge is the dream of the broken hearted as the LMFAP explains in
Industrial Symphony No. 1.
We do all agree that Dale Cooper was a good and loving person, but
finally love broke his heart, which resulted in the fact, that evil
sides of his person caught him.
The Lodge is indeed the waiting room of a persons change.


     ________________________________________________________________
    /                                                               /|
   /                                                               / |
  /---------------------------------------------------------------/  |
  |                                      |                        |  |
  | Mikael Christian Varrild Flensborg   | Phone +45 86 18 23 19  |  |
  |                                      |                        |  |
  | Computer Science Department          |                        |  |
  | Aarhus University                    | Internet:              |  |
  | 8000 Aarhus C                        | mcvf@daimi.aau.dk      |  |
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  | DENMARK                              |                        | /
  | EEC                                  |                        |/
   ---------------------------------------------------------------/



--
 
    Venn ist das nurnstuck git und Slotermeyer?
    Ya! Beigerhund das oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!

Most of the people who have watched twin-peaks have the opinion, that
the Black and the White Lodge are different places. And of course this
fact courses a great lot of confusion.

However the Black and White Lodge are ONE AND THE SAME.

If you doubt this fact, then just watch the floor of the Lodge.

Also,
The LMFAP and Laura Palmer are ONE AND THE SAME.
Remember Dale Coopers dream where the LMFAP says:
"Watch out for my cousin (Maddy)" and
"We look just like each other"
Actually Laura Palmer and Maddy are the same actor.

The Giant and the old senile waiter at the Great Nortehrn
are ONE AND THE SAME.
Remember every time the giant showed himself, it was in some kind of
connection with the old senile waiter.

Annie and Coroline are ONE AND THE SAME.
I think this comes clear, when you see the scene from the Lodge
where those shift around in front of Cooper.

And of course
Dale Cooper and Windom Earle are ONE AND THE SAME.
Earle asks Cooper "Will you give up your soul for her" but
Earle cannot ask for Coopers soul because they are the same.
But then Bob replies
"You cannot ask for his soul, but I will take his" (Earles)
And then the great chase begins, which ends with Cooper/Earle being
caught.

Bob is not an inhibitant of the Lodge, he is just a personification of
evil, and therefore he exists in both our world and the Lodge.

As mentioned the two Lodges are the same.
The Lodge is not a place of badness, but of course a mix of good and
bad, because one of those cannot exist seperately.
The Lodge is the dream of the broken hearted as the LMFAP explains in
Industrial Symphony No. 1.
We do all agree that Dale Cooper was a good and loving person, but
finally love broke his heart, which resulted in the fact, that evil
sides of his person caught him.
The Lodge is indeed the waiting room of a persons change.





--
Mikael Christian Varrild Flensborg   | Phone +45 86 18 23 19 
Computer Science Department          |                       
Aarhus University                    | Internet: mcvf@daimi.aau.dk
8000 Aarhus C, Denmark               |

csupp@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
> >The Log Lady's husband died in a fire shortly after their wedding. She received

Note the wording: Her husband died fighting the fire.

BOB is represented by fire.

> >Coop had her bring in a jar of oil that her husband brought to her before he
> >died.  So did he go to Glastonberry Grove and see Bob or the BL/WL before his
> >death??  

It seems fairly obvious to me that he found the gateway, and
then went back and entered the lodge on a later occasion.

He didn't survive. BOB got him.

> >Is her husband's spirit in the log as we saw Josie in dresser knob.  Pete

Possible. This seems to be one of the loose threads.
Bob.

In article <1991Jun21.195020.21203@ccu.umanitoba.ca> platt@ccu.umanitoba.ca writes:
> >Surely the Major would know about him, and it's possible that the Haloperidol 
> >caused him to say it in this strange way.
> >

The Major had been injected with Haloperidol to help WE reveal facts about the
Black Lodge, right?  Wasn't that the same drug Mike the OAM was taking to
control his "problem"?  Perchance Mike was now in the Major?

_______
Stephen M. Webb
"Does the 4-H club have anything to do with this?"

cdt@sw.stratus.com (Chris Tavares) writes:
> >Whoa, you just jogged my memory.  According to what I remember, the petroglyph
> >was there in plain sight when Coop went to the cave.  Andy chewed a hole in the
> >wall with a pick, and we never found out what was in it.  Then WE came in, rotated
> >a shaft, and the wall started rumbling, and we never found out what THAT was about,

A crude symbol, mixing the tattoos on the LL and the Major
and surmounted by a fire symbol, was all that was visible
at first. Andy swung at the owl which swooped at the party,
and hit the wall instead. The pick embeded itself in the
wall to the acompanyment of fireworks. A panel in the wall
then poped open to reveal the end of a rod surrounded by
another fire symbol.

WE came in later and matched the symbol on the rod up with a
similar symbol on the other side of the cave by twisting the
rod. This started the wall disintegrating and the whole
petroglyph of the map showing the gateway and when it
opened, was revealed.
Bob.

   Stealing Pete's truck is not an impressive example of getaway planning

In article <1991Jun22.131312.28952@panix.uucp>, jhawk@panix.uucp (John Hawkinson) writes:
> > I just had a kind of wierd thought: Somebody out there has a theory of
> > the BL/WL going backwards in time, and I was wondering. Perhaps the Red
> > Curtains refer to a Doppler red-shift. I forget, is that getting closer,
> > or getting farther away? Regardless, perhaps someone who knows about this
> > sort of thing could elaborate?

Quite far-fetched, but I'll explain:

Actually, if the BL/WL were getting closer, a blue-shift would occur (red is
 for moving away). We would then have blue curtains (they wouldn't happen to be
made of velvet, would they?)
At any rate, Doppler shifting is dependent on the relative velocity, or rate of
change of SPATIAL juxtaposition (due to crowding or spreading of light
wave-fronts), rather than TEMPORAL juxtaposition. Good thinking, though.

Keith Ball             "You gotta work real hard to get outta this garbage can;
The banker won't admit he's just a garbage man."
-Death of Samantha

Oh God please help me escape from Columbus! They won't let me leave!

In article <DPASSAGE.91Jun21144941@soda.berkeley.edu>, dpassage@soda.berkeley.edu (David G. Paschich) writes:
> >  cdt@sw.stratus.com (Chris Tavares) writes:
> >    howie@ivory.cc.columbia.edu (Howie Kaye) writes:
> >    > Why couldn't
> >    > Eckhart have just left the box/bomb setup around "in case of his death"?
> >    With a note that said "Got you, Andrew" -- addressed to a person he didn't 
> >    even know was alive until about a half hour before his own death?
> > That bomb could have been planted years ago, when Eckhart and Andrew
> > first got mad at each other.  

I still don't buy it.  The box was given to Catherine, and was given by Eckhardt's
secretary (or whatever she was to him).  This woman had no idea Andrew was still
alive, either; and nobody had a motive for killing Catherine (well, nobody in THAT
group, anyway).
-- cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet...

> >It was my thought that perhaps in the white lodge when they said "One and the
> >Same..."  they were referring to the Black Lodge and the White Lodge being

I just wastched it last night, again.  And SDC gives Coop coffee, after
it is served it is the giant, not SDC.  He turns, sits, and says, "one
and the same."  Must be SDC and the giant.

->>- Mr. Eckhart's assistant, Jones, delivered the key. Perhaps she
->>- also placed the bomb and note.
->>What language is it that Jones and Eckhart work speaking when they
->>first arrived in TP?  Sounded like Russian to me.  Don't know if
->>it's relevant.  Did anyone ever figure out why she tried to kill
->>Truman - other than that Josie had probably given him lots of secrets?

->From David Warner's (Eckhart) attempt at a South African accident I'd guess
->it was Afrikaans. And Jones attack on Truman is more likely to be
->motivated by Eckhart's sexual jealousy. Is it relevant? 

I guess the relevancy is still what throws me!  After Eckhart is dead
then i can see delivering the box (she, working for Eckhart stands to
win by whatever it is Eckhart delivers in the box.)  But i don't 
understand how in the world it could be important for Eckhart's 
jealousy to be an issue after he is dead.  and on and on.  I'm
interested in theories.

In article <51031@ut-emx.uucp>, osmigo@ut-emx.uucp (Ron Morgan) writes:
> > Sorry, you're right. The voice said "I'm in the Black Lodge with Agent
> > Cooper," not Laura Palmer. Jeez, I hope I don't get 4,888 follow-ups 
> > correcting me....|-:

Oh, foo, there goes a promising line of study: "TP AUDIO TRACK VS. CLOSED
CAPTIONING: TWO COMPLETELY DISCRETE PLOT LINES?"
-- cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet...

Naturally when I don't have the cast list that is usually posted but
I was wondering who the actress is who plays Annie? Is it by any
chance Heather Graham? This is the actress who played Nadine in
Drugstore Cowboy (an excellent movie, excellently acted by the way).
She looked familiar so this was my guess...Thanks for your help.
Please email me in case I can't find your reply in the crush of
TP messages.
-- Jackie Burhans (burhans@usc.edu) Data Stylist, USC Student Affairs

In article <11711.9106241006@uk.ac.keele.seq1>, iru03@seq1.keele.ac.uk (P.R. Grove) writes:
>> > > IT WILL BE RETROSPECTIVE - ie. IT WILL BE DEALING WITH THE EVENTS
>> > > IN THE WEEK LEADING UP TO LAURA`S DEATH! 
>> > > So the final tv episode of TP might not be resolved (cue sounds of heads
>> > > being bashed against walls, etc.).

Let's hope the writers are REALLY CLEVER.  A well-written prequel can easily
resolve questions in the original series.  The viewer can be places and learn
things that remain unknown to the other characters, even in the original series.
For example, we may see how Josie got into double dealing, and perhaps something
that happened in her past that foreshadows her timely end, wrapped in plywood.
We may hear the giant's voice come out of Margaret's log.  BOB may impart some
crucial Lodge secrets to Laura in an effort to entire her to let him in.  He may
describe previously unknown portions of the Caroline affair to her, or let slip
something about his plans for Windom Earl.  It Can Be Done, folks!
-- cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet...

00aasatchwil@bsu-ucs.uucp writes:
> >It was my thought that perhaps in the white lodge when they said "One and the
> >Same..."  they were referring to the Black Lodge and the White Lodge being
> >the same thing or the same location. Am I completely on the wrong track??

Spot on!

That is my interpretation.

The black lodge is the white lodge seen in a different way.

The qualities needed to survive in the Black lodge seem to
be the same as those which are required to enter the white
lodge. You enter the black lodge, and if you survive you are
in the white lodge.

The lodge is just a place where people are tested.

The Major and the Log Lady were both tested there. They were
both gone for about a day, testing Cooper took the same
length of time. The Major and the LL both passed the test,
and were marked. (A sort of hallmark).

The LL's husband fought the fire (BOB) and died.

When the Major was being tested he saw the lodge as an
ornamental garden (of a castle?). When Cooper is tested, the
lodge used elements from his original dream to confront him
with his other self. Inside the lodge has the aspects of a
bad dream. Time runs forwards at different speeds, backwards
and loops back on itself. You can run and run but you always
keep arriving back at the same place. I think that there is
only the one room and corridor as well. Leave the room and
you are in the corridor. Leave the corridor and you are
back in the room. Until the testing has finished, that is.

Coop failed the test. What better way to destroy someone
with his high personal standards than returning him with BOB
for company. Heh! heh! heh!
Bob.

#Since everybody is slinging the word around like they've used it forever,
#isn't the word "doppELganger" and not "doppLEganger"?

#Don't mean to be picky, but oh well.
                                                                           
                                                                          
Well, if you want to be REALLY picky, it's actually "Doppelgaenger," or
        .. 
"Doppelganger" if you're allowed to type umlauts (or diaereses, to 
continue the picky mode).

I usually DO mean to be picky, having taught German for some years....:-0

cheers--MVB

"What's the sense in ever thinkin' 'bout the tomb/When you're much too 
busy returning to the womb?"--TMBG
Disclaimer:  Not my planet, monkeyboy!

It's GLASTONBURY, not Glastonberry.  Let's fix this before it spreads!
Glastonberries don't make particularly good pie.

Perhaps the 'Sycamore' trees were Lynch's way of telling us he's
  "sick 'a' more trees"

Here's a new thread you can munch on and disgorge:

Suppose Ben Horne has fathered 8 daughters (who?), making the Horne family a
group of 10 horns.  If we can just find 7 heads, one of them wounded, but that
recovers, we have found the Beast of biblical fame.

Brian WOOD    *House address 710 -- same as Blue Lady's apt in Blue Velvet
              *Just got through studying major religious works like Ben Horne
              *Live next to a grove of TREES
              *My wife's aunt's name is Annie; my sister's name is Anne
              *My wife grew up next to a forest; next street - Glastonbury

In article <1991Jun24.145441.4137@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> ceblair@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Charles Blair) writes:

      Stealing Pete's truck is not an impressive example of getaway planning

Earle would have realized that there would be quite a lot of cars
available at the Miss Twin Peaks pageant.  Presumably, as well as being
a master of disguise, he is great at stealing cars.

Muffy

I would interpret Laura's upsidedownness as representing her Doppelganger,
as you would see a face reflected in a pool, for example the pool near
the entrance to the black lodge.

"He who laughs last . . . ", "How's Annie?!"

In <23781@shlump.lkg.dec.com> bobp@muffn.enet.dec.com (Bob Pellegrino) writes:

> >|>Subject: The Shining?

> >|>
> >|>redroom
> >|>RedRoom RedRoom
> >|>REDROOM REDROOM REDROOM!!!
> >|>

> >No, no, no.  That was "Redrum, Redrum!"  as in Murder spelled backwards.

> >--bob

Oh... Really??  Gee, I guess I kinda sorta thought it was Moorder. :-|

sj

bob@castle.ed.ac.uk writes:

%00aasatchwil@bsu-ucs.uucp writes:
%>It was my thought that perhaps in the white lodge when they said "One and the
%>Same..."  they were referring to the Black Lodge and the White Lodge being
%>the same thing or the same location. Am I completely on the wrong track??
%
%Spot on!
%
%That is my interpretation.

That wasn't my interpretation at all. I and all my friends believed
that "One and the same" was referring to the giant and the old man
(waiter) who often appeared just before and after the giant. Though I
must admit we all thought this was so blatantly obvious that it
seemed strange for Lynch to even mention it. So, perhaps the phrase
had a deeper meaning.


--Stefan Kozlowski
  MIT AI Lab

In article <11263@castle.ed.ac.uk> bob@castle.ed.ac.uk (Bob Gray) writes:
> >The qualities needed to survive in the Black lodge seem to
> >be the same as those which are required to enter the white
> >lodge. You enter the black lodge, and if you survive you are
> >in the white lodge.

> >The lodge is just a place where people are tested.

> >The Major and the Log Lady were both tested there. They were
> >both gone for about a day, testing Cooper took the same
> >length of time. The Major and the LL both passed the test,
> >and were marked. (A sort of hallmark).

> >When the Major was being tested he saw the lodge as an
> >ornamental garden (of a castle?). When Cooper is tested, the

I don't think that this is how it worked.  The major said that he
had "been taken to" the White Lodge.  The hooded figure apparently 
brought him there.

Rocky Giovinazzo

I don't normally post on this group, but this crossed my desk and I thought
others might find it interesting.

                            Critique of Twin Peaks
                         David Koukal, Cybertek, Inc.


The moral of "Twin Peaks." To wax enthusiastic  over  a  television program--
for only a long moment: What are we to make of the  dark  end of Lynch's
nightmare vision?  An absurdist morality play with an uncanny ability to both
entertain and disturb (rare in a medium  that  usually leaves no lasting
intellectual or emotional impressions on its audience), a story that reached
the heights of comedy, a  TV  program that achieved a style never before seen
via that medium, a  tale  rich in metaphor and motif that, in the end, was
simply too good  for  its audience--after all this, how can we conscience its
irrevocably terrifying conclusion?  "Twin Peaks" was a soap opera with a
difference: whereas the average sample of the genre limpidly animates its
characters  through a variety of motivations, some more admirable than others,
Lynch  boldly drew large the antithetics of good and evil and made  his
characters prisoners within the resulting turmoil.  This brought  a  vitality
to the story notably missing from the workaday soap.  All  in  all,  the
violence was more  jarringly violent, the erotic more so, not  by  relying on
gratuity but because of superior (and more dramatic) animating agents.  The
good were more pure, the bad  more  menacingly  sinister when motivated by
forces that were by pragmatic,  "realistic"  standards fundamentally irrational
(after all, who is really that  good,  that bad?).  The simple and the complex
were  thereby  combined,  creating a relationship which generated both mystical
beauty and base,  even taboo, tragedy.  Lynch spoke compellingly to forces
considered superstitious by our supposedly sophisticated secularism,  and  that
he did so in the seemingly "mined out" genre of the soap opera  is  a testament
to his accomplishments not only as a director of  great  style but also as a
satirist, moralist, and social critic.  Some would say that such terms are
wasted on a director that merely possesses a good eye (not to mention an ear
that has elevated the soundtrack to an art form in and of itself), but I would
insist  on their applicability.  Obviously, Lynch was  satirizing  soap
operas.  For the most part soaps have pretenses to a glamorous realism  but  at
the same time offer plots that are improbable; in this  respect  "Twin Peaks"
was hardly different.  Occasionally soaps test  the  bounds  of credibility,
and so did "Twin Peaks"; is there any  real  difference between the freezing of
Port Charles (of "General Hospital" fame) and the UFO's which abducted Major
Briggs? Lynch  introduced  four  elements to the genre that distinguished his
creation from  the  rest.  First, he chose to emphasize the "unreal" component
of soaps  by  combining metaphor and motif with absurdity and surrealism in
order  to  challenge the sensibilities of his audience.  Second, he  assumed
the  intelligence of his audience (a bold assumption) by presenting them with
mysteries they could become involved in. (On the whole, the plot  of  "Twin
Peaks" was abnormally cohesive by TV standards; basically, everything "fit,"
which allowed the audience to play Lynch's game..) Third,  by  simply applying
his genius as a director, he showed his audience  how  good a soap could look.
Last and most important, Lynch presented a moral  spectrum  that re-acquainted
his audience with the almost medieval concepts  of  good and evil.  In the
beginning Lynch's characters seemed  to  be  motivated by workaday soap opera
vices (greed, jealousy, envy,  adultery,  lust, etc.). However, as the plot
confronted more and  more  socially  taboo subjects (pornography, incest,
torture, sado-masochism),  the  story started to spin away from superficially
material explanations  of  human behavior.  It became more and more apparent
that  his  characters  were agents of forces beyond themselves, converting
human failings  to  human tragedy.  Lynch's metaphysical and at times  mystical
framework  more readily explained switches in character, which in  the
conventional soap occur mainly to shift the formula of the pseudo drama onto
another tack and re-generate a neverending story  line.  Lynch's  characters
were not motivated by the producer's need to "spice up" a  stale  story; nor
were they motivated by the allure of material  gain.  Rather,  they were
motivated because they inhabited a certain point on  Lynch's  moral spectrum,
and the closer a character came to either end of  this  spectrum (Cooper at one
end, Killer Bob at the other), the more  intriguing  they became.  Simply put,
Lynch enticed us with moral extremes,  and  in  so doing revealed the
irredeemable shallowness of soaps in general.  In satirizing the soap opera
(though some would say it  is  difficult to satirize anything so self-
satirizing), Lynch was by extension satirizing American society (one would
encounter  similar  difficulties, I should think); this in turn justifies my
appellations  of  "moralist" and "social critic," for a satirist must be both.
Lynch  began  his critique in the "perfect place" of Rockwellian myth.  The
town  of  Twin Peaks was surrounded by the unspoiled natural splendor of  the
Pacific Northwest, and peopled by persons with almost uniformly  WASPish  last
names.  A single Native American and one Oriental  woman  conspired  to spoil
their pristine whiteness.  True to the "small  town"  myth,  everyone knew
everyone else (quite a trick considering the  population  stood at 51,201; Twin
Peaks was actually a small city), and one  could  be sure that they didn't lock
their doors at night.  The  sheriff's  name was Harry Truman, bringing to mind
a more  innocent,  commonsensical era; Doc Hayward made house calls; the coffee
and the cherry  pie  at the R & R cafe was revered by all; the women were the
picture of luminous purity and wore tight sweaters.  Though  some  were
certainly characters, "simple" and "decent" were the adjectives  most
rightfully applied to the citizens of Twin Peaks, two words that have  been
elevated to ideals in the American cultural lexicon.  In Twin Peaks,  as  in
the lexicon the town embodied, there was no place for tragedy  and  evil.
Enter Dale Cooper, more an agent of good (read "simple" and "decent") than of
the F.B.I., in town to investigate the  disappearance of the typically
overachieving and loved-by-all homecoming  queen  Laura Palmer.  Laura had
secrets, and upon her death  these  were  revealed by Cooper and Truman in-
between their sporadic celebrations  of  the American utopia, which consists
mainly of strong coffee,  fresh  air, and good pie.  Laura's secrets were a
litany of American cultural taboos: vixen, coke freak, prostitute, entry in
flesh  magazine,  hints of sado-masochism, and finally  and  most
dramatically,  victim  of  child abuse and incest, the  ultimate  affront  to
the  American  sensibility of clean optimism.  As  the  investigation
continued  the  secrets  of  the town were uncovered, and  beneath  the
seemingly  pleasant  surface  of the Rockwellian myth Cooper discovered that no
one was innocent; virtually everyone was tainted  with  secrets  as  shameful
as  Laura's.  The ever-optimistic Cooper stubbornly pursued the truth; his pure
goodness shone in the  night,  which  increasingly  exposed  twin  realities.
In the end, these realities  created  between  them  a  dissonance  which could
not be reconciled.  Ultimately, this optimism  was  the  target  of  Lynch's
critique, and it was an  attack  worthy  of  Voltaire's  admiration.  (Indeed,
Lynch's analysis of American optimism was if anything more devastating because
there is no formal rationale for such an optimism, such as the Leibnizian
philosophy which provided the foundation for the optimism that was the object
of Voltaire's venomous assault.)  In challenging his audience to  reconcile
their  culturally-imbued  optimism  with  the darkest details of American life
(a life we  know  to  be  real;  our  mass media sensationalizes every detail,
and  we  voyeuristically  lap  up  every morsel), Lynch drove home the point
that these things cannot be "simply" explained away by "decency"; in  point  of
fact,.they  defy  most  known standards of decency.  These  things  will  not
go  away,  proclaimed  Lynch, by optimistically wishing them to do so; i.e.,
American optimism  is a chimera, a  morality  without  content.  Since  this
optimistic  creed is unable to remedy or even  explain  these  dark  details,
Lynch  suggested another tack.  He asked us  to  entertain  the  possibility
of  pure  evil, and the tragedy which accompanies it.  Lynch was most
vulnerable  to  charges  of  misogyny,  and  admittedly "Twin Peaks" was highly
sexual  (though  I  do  not  necessarily  equate misogyny with  eroticism).
Women  suffered  grievously  at  his  hands.  While masculine characters
occupied both extremes of the moral spectrum, Lynch's feminine characters
resided somewhere in the middle, mere decorative props costumed  in  the  most
outrageously  revealing  outfits, and they were  without  exception  negative,
weak,  victimized,  morally flawed--or all of the above.  Women  seemed  to  be
the  fodder  for  Lynch's narrative, i.e., they were  simply  meant  to  be
used.  The  strongest female character was possibly Norma Jennings, and she was
ever victimized by the vacillating memory of  her  lover's  wife  and  a
weakness for her convict  husband.  Another  candidate  would  be  Audrey
Horne, who by all accounts was the  most  independent  but  also  scheming  and
manipulative.  Lucy Moran was appealing, but with her Betty Boop voice and
awkward pregnancy she became a figure of fun.  The rest were all peripheral,
abused, raped, or deceased.  One may attempt to excuse this  as  simply
another  part  of  Lynch's satire; after all, sex is half of what soap operas
are all about, violence being the other  half.  By  displaying  his  sexism  so
blatantly perhaps Lynch was revealing the  heavily  implied  sexism  of  soaps
in general.  Yet there  was  an  exhibitionistic  cruelty  to  Lynch's  sexism,
a meanness that seemed unnecessarily excessive; in the end, he went beyond mere
sexism.  Perhaps Lynch was elevating his point to social satire and claiming an
insight into the American male libido.  Perhaps he is claiming that this
sexuality is based not on feminist notions of mutuality but on a disturbing
notion of misogyny.  Whatever its origin, the misogyny of "Twin Peaks" was all
the more disturbing in light of the fact that most male viewers which I spoke
with tended to find the series highly erotic, while most female viewers found
its sexuality abhorrent (which would prove Lynch's point if he was indeed
making such a point).  In the end, the question of whether Lynch is a
misogynist or was merely port  in  misogyny remains an open one to my mind.  on
charges of excessive violence Lynch fares better, but make no mistake: in my
opinion "Twin Peaks" was the most violent program ever to be seen on prime time
television.  The scenes depicting the deaths of Laura and her cousin Maddy were
the most devastating portrayals of violence I have ever seen on the small
screen.  Even the death of Ben Horne, while containing an element of slapstick,
communicated an even greater element of horror, and the incidents of violence
that produced a weeping Deputy Andy conveyed a lasting feeling of pathos to the
audience.  These scenes of violence were among Lynch's most impressive
accomplishments.  They were effective not because of their clinical realism
(people bled in "Twin Peaks," but not excessively so); rather, Lynch invested
these scenes with an emotional energy that was disorienting and ultimately
terrifying.  This energy accounted for and justified the violence (in terms of
the plot), and at the same time acted as the medium through which the horror
was passed on to the audience.  Lynch's situations of impending violence seemed
close, claustrophobic, emotionally taut.  This overlaying fabric of tension was
stretched tighter and tighter until it was inevitably torn to shreds by the
participants in the scene.  The horrifying emotional din that resulted exposed
the inherent irrationality that surrounds and produces acts of violence.  That
this violence was explicitly linked to pure evil only contributed to its
horror.  All of this involved little blood, and no exposure of internal organs;
if we were revolted by Lynch's violence it was an emotional, not a physical,
revulsion.  Any nightmares experienced in our sleep were due not to the realism
of any physical wounds we may have seen, but to the realism of the emotional
wounds Lynch left on the psyche of his characters--and by extension, on the
psyche of his audience.  Ultimately, Lynch's tonic to the pseudoviolence that
predominates the visual mediums was to remind us that we should not be immune
to the terror of the idea of violence, as opposed to the mere spectacle of
violence.  Rather than banalize violent acts through the clinical repetition of
a supposed realism, Lynch made violence emotionally real in all of its
corrosive ugliness--our visual arts need more of this kind of violence.  The
story of "Twin Peaks" was flawed in minor ways, but generally these flaws
sprung from the ambition of Lynch's project; Lynch actually had something to
say, whereas most in television are content to simply spoof the more
superficial aspects of reality.  Though flawed itself, "Twin Peaks" implicitly
revealed the greatest flaw intrinsic to the genre (and the society) it was
satirizing, namely, that successful soap operas never end, which ultimately
renders their content meaningless.  A story ever-unfolding with no conclusion
becomes something other than a story--it becomes a chaotic collection of
sensate fragments only marginally related to one another, a confusing plethora
of words and details unrooted in a forgotten beginning and never seeming to
advance towards any known end.  Deprived of these touchstones the audience is
abandoned to find its own way, and of course it never will.  All narrative must
end, or else it means nothing.  The metaphor of the narrative is perfectly
applicable to society, history, metaphysics.  Detached from all philosophical,
cosmological, and theological "ends," the audience of mankind is concerned only
with "means." In the  absence of any projected conclusions, meaningful advances
are no longer possible.  Indeed, the soap opera is the perfect analogy for mass
society: a clamoring aggregation ignorant of both its past and its future but
enamored with a dynamically stultified present.  Obligingly, Lynch broke with
the genre and brought his narrative to an end, disturbing in itself but doubly
so in its content.  In this end Lynch delivered the fatal blow to our mindless
optimism and made a distressing statement about the natures of both good and
evil, namely:  The naive logic of the good is no match for the irrational
genius of evil.  Ben and Audrey Horne's sincere conversions to altruism were
for naught as their lives ended through the machinations of evil, and Cooper,
for all his brilliance and mystical insight, could not consistently triumph
evil; he was overwhelmed by its many forms.  Cooper's ultimate absorption by
evil may have seemed ambiguous to the hopeful; after all, he had traded his
soul for Annie's life.  But the hopeful ignore the fact that Annie would now
surely be a victim of the evil within Cooper--the supreme irony.  Make no
mistake, pure good was irrevocably vanquished; in this Lynch broke an unstated
rule of the medium when he allowed pure evil this triumph.  In creating these
portraits of good and evil and their respective mediums of love and fear
(correlatives to the traditional formula of sex and violence), Lynch seemed to
be stating that fear held a decisive edge over love, both in sheer coercive
power and in its ability to deceive.  Whether we agree with this disturbing
assessment or not, one thing beyond dispute is that this conclusion had no
place on television, the oracle of the cult of clean  happiness.  Ultimately,
this ending would sell no soap.

In article <91175.140408U14780@uicvm.uic.edu> John R. Andrews <U14780@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
> >I don't normally post on this group, but this crossed my desk and I thought
> >others might find it interesting.
> >
> >                            Critique of Twin Peaks
> >                         David Koukal, Cybertek, Inc.

I don't know about the truth of what he says, but he should learn how
to use paragraphs to divide his writing into logical chunks.

-- / Andrew S. Gerber / Solbourne Computer, Inc / / gerber@solbourne.com / ...!{uunet,sun,boulder}!stan!gerber / / "Stress is best shared with someone you love" /

In the next to last episode, during the announcement for the season, finale
there was some morse code in the background. Has anyone deocded this message?

Ron

pritchet@hobbes.cs.scarolina.edu

In article <1991Jun24.134123.22798@daimi.aau.dk> mcvf@daimi.aau.dk (Mikael Christian Varrild Flensborg) writes:
> >Also,
> >The LMFAP and Laura Palmer are ONE AND THE SAME.
> >Remember Dale Coopers dream where the LMFAP says:
> >"Watch out for my cousin (Maddy)" and
> >"We look just like each other"
> >Actually Laura Palmer and Maddy are the same actor.  [duh!]

The red room(s) we saw may very well be both the black and white
lodges (although I'm not sure that I agree with this theory), but what
is written above was not said in Dale's first dream.  The LMFAP
said, "She's my cousin, but doesn't she look almost exactly like
Laura Palmer?"

Rocky Giovinazzo

>>>>> >>>>> On 22 Jun 91 00:59:57 GMT, halcyon!hikaru@seattleu.edu said:

> > ms5h+@andrew.cmu.edu (Marci Swede) writes:

> > Caroline, according to Cooper's bio, died about 1980. Spoils your theory 
> > - sorry.

According to Coop, the incident with Windom Earle and Caroline happened
about 4 years ago. He said this in the episode he first explained Earle &
Caroline to Truman.
--
Bob Myers       [714] 577-2339
Unocal Science & Technology Division           stssram@unocal.com
Brea, California
                      This message is my opinion only!

There will never be an answer to what happened with the 
bank explosion, but if there were, it could easily run 
like the cliffhanger resolutions in the old matinee 
serials (such as Republic Pictures "Zombies of the 
Stratosphere"), in which a sure-death calamity (like 
a car going over a cliff, the driver unconscious) is 
revealed in the next episode to be only part of what 
happened (driver actually wakes at the last second, 
throws himself clear). 
 
For example, episode 3001 could open with Pete's & 
Andrew's faces being briefly lit by a flashbulb 
attached (for some reason) to the bomb, before they 
turn and dash out, pausing to free Audrey with the 
bolt-cutters Pete had brought in case there was something 
hard to open inside the safe-deposit box. Cut to those 
three, along with the whole bank staff, exiting the building 
and running away across the parking lot. Medium shot 
as all stop, sheltering from the coming blast in the 
lee of an armored truck. Audrey asks, "Is everybody
okay?"

The group answers with murmured affirmatives. Dell 
says "I just wish I hadn't left my other glasses 
on the windowsill by the artificial rubber tree."
 
Then the bank blows up. 
 
Would this be a narrative cheat? Sure, but it would
also be a clever homage to the Golden Age of American
Film.
 
       Angus MacDonald; idddev@well.sf.ca.us
Opinions expressed in this message are solely my own.

In article <1991Jun24.135009.23025@daimi.aau.dk>, mcvf@daimi.aau.dk (Mikael Christian Varrild Flensborg) writes:

> > The LMFAP and Laura Palmer are ONE AND THE SAME.
> > Remember Dale Coopers dream where the LMFAP says:
> > "Watch out for my cousin (Maddy)" and
> > "We look just like each other"
> > Actually Laura Palmer and Maddy are the same actor.

You are confusing lines and their speakers.  MADDY says, "I'm Maddy.  Watch out
for my cousin" in the LAST episode.  In the dream sequence, the LMFAP says,
"She's my cousin," (referring to Laura), "but doesn't she look just like Laura 
Palmer?"  This entire exchange is most meaningful as a foreshadowing of the
arrival of Maddy in the next episode.  It doesn't work as an indication that
the LMFAP is either Laura or Maddy.

> > Dale Cooper and Windom Earle are ONE AND THE SAME.
> > Earle asks Cooper "Will you give up your soul for her" but
> > Earle cannot ask for Coopers soul because they are the same.

Interesting idea -- yet, of all the pairs you mention, this is the only pair made
up of two "mundanes" (mortals), and is questionable for that reason.
-- cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet...

In article <10308.2865126c@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> kdb@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:
> >Since everybody is slinging the word around like they've used it forever,
> >isn't the word "doppELganger" and not "doppLEganger"?

The absolute correct spelling is "doppelgaenger", since the word is German
and has an umlaut (the two dots) over the 'a'.  When umlauts are unavailable
(as in our ASCII world), the proper German replacement is to follow the
normally umlauted letter with an 'e' (which is what the umlaut is actually
a contraction for).

In English, however, it is OK to spell it without the umlaut as "doppelganger".
In neither case does the 'l' precede the 'e', as Keith points out.

As long as we're being picky...

-Pete Zakel
 (phz@cadence.com or ..!uunet!cadence!phz)

Just for grins, say "red room" backwards and see what you get...

At the end of the penultimate episode of TP, there was an
announcement of the season (final) finale episode.  In the
background I clearly heard some morse code, but it was too
fast for me to decode, and I was not recording the episode.
    Did anyone else hear this or get it on tape?  Has anyone
decoded the message (assuming that it's a real message)?

(much jabbering about the bank blast blowing out the front windows)

Uh, reviewing my videotape (touch it and die!), I noticed that not only was
the glass blown out, but the metal frame(s) as well.

I also noticed that starting with the time he saw the burning fuse and said
"oh, no!" (or whatever it was), about one second elapsed before the explosion.
That's not much time to get out of there.

Ron Morgan
osmigo@emx.utexas.edu

alternat@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Ann Hodgins) writes:

> >So Laura in a coffee cup. What the heck does *that* mean?!
 
> >All I could think of was an old Carly Simon hit: You're So Vain.
> >And the lines, "I had some dreams, they were clouds in your coffee, clouds 
> >in your coffee and you're so vain you prob'ly think this song is
> >about you."
 
> >I never forgot those lines because
> >1) what the hell are clouds in coffee?   
> >2) the song *was* about him.  :-)
 

        "Clouds in your coffee" probably meant her dining partner was
hung-over or spaced-out for breakfast that morning, and the coffee didn't
do anything to remedy it.

       I remember many years ago hearing that "Your So Vain" was written
about Mick Jagger.  In fact, I think he's singing in the background on 
Carly Simon's version.

                                 Phil

In article <1991Jun24.145441.4137@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> ceblair@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Charles Blair) writes:
> >   Stealing Pete's truck is not an impressive example of getaway planning

It is if you want to be followed.

Ron Morgan
osmigo@emx.utexas.edu

wow -- i never knew this group existed.  ironically, i find out some week after
the final episode. it took me a while over the weekend to work through some 
200 articles.  some 60 articles back i was wondering if anybody had looked 
at the floor of the b/w lodge and whether or not they are the same...  and 
somebody did about 10 postings ago.

i also think they are the same (same location, in some way) and there may be
different ways of entering.  those trees look sad now, but maybe that was once
a cheerful little pond surrounded by trees in bloom ?  (or will be ?)

there is one lodge.  however, your environment changes with the state of the
testee.  it's a chicken-and-the-egg thing, but it also divides the those driven
by love from those driven/focussed on fear.  what i mean is that the lodge
only reflects the visitor's own state.

cooper enters the lodge(s) and things are spookey, but generally friendly.
then he starts loosing confidence, and things go downhill from there.  he fails
and leaves enbobbed.

however, it's somehow comforting to know that he has another 25 years to live.

can somebody fill me in on the 12 rainbow trout and why they got left in the
pickup truck ?

In article <12734@scolex.sco.COM> erics@sco.COM (eric smith) writes:
> >
> > The dead Annie lying on the ground outside the BL is again not
> >the real Annie, as that Cooper is likely not the real Cooper.
> >
> >Anyone have any thoughts on this theory about what may have happened to
> >Annie? Did anyone make out what she was saying as WE led her toward the
> >circle of sycamores? At first I thought it was a prayer given her convent
> >background, but after listening to it again it seemed more like a chant
> >or incantation.

I wonder if, like Cooper being possessed by BOB, Annie isn`t possessed
by someone now. I suppose we'll never know :-(, but my choices
are Josie, OAM, or maybe even Laura Palmer!



-- Lynn Schneider lzs@indetech.com {sun,sharkey,pacbell}!indetech!lzs Fremont, CA

giovin@medr0.ecs.umass.edu (Rocky J Giovinazzo) writes:
> >I don't equate BOB and the LMFAP either, but I think that this is where
> >people who do equate them are coming from:  The LMFAP danced over
> >Eckhardt's bed after BOB finished mocking Cooper.

No, it's much clearer than that.

In episode 2009 (the Leland death episode), Coop figured out that the
LMFAP represented Leland who was possessed by Bob.

--
bvickers@ics.uci.edu | "Only a large-scale popular movement toward
brett@ucippro.bitnet |  decentralization and self-help can arrest the
                     |  present tendency toward statism." - Aldous Huxley

In article <13637.9106241015@uk.ac.keele.seq1> iru03@seq1.keele.ac.uk (P.R. Grove) writes:
> >
> >RE. final episode - when the giant said "one and the same", I got the
> >impression that he was referring to Droolcup (note the similar dress
> >styles), or am I barking up the wrong pine tree?

Interpretation of this statement varies.  Some folks agree with you that
the giant meant he and Droolcup were the same.  Others thought he meant
that he and the LMFAP were the same.  Somebody recently suggested he
meant that the Black Lodge and White Lodge were the same.  I interpret
it as you did.

> >And what about the 2 hour TV special as hinted about in the Daily
> >Telegraph? I think that this is not referring to the film.

Not sure what you or the Daily Telegraph are referring to, unless it's just
the 2 hour final episode that we saw here in the States (your last two
1 hour episodes were presented back to back as a single extended episode
on this side of the pond).  Latest word from Bob Cappel (sp?), head of
COOP, via a phone call from Lynch is that a theatrical film release is
going to happen.  Report of a TV interview with Michael Ontkean, I think,
agreed with this.  Someone spoke with Scott Frost (Mark Frost's son), and
learned that all television plans had fallen through; this was a couple
of weeks ago.  Film is supposed to be about last 7 days of Laura's life,
not any further resolution of the final episode's cliffhanger (as folks
have pointed out, this was intended to be a season cliffhanger, not the
end of the show... I wish Lynch would keep that in mind!).
-- -larryy@apple.com "You wouldn't recognize a *subtle plan* if it painted itself purple, and danced naked upon a harpsichord, singing, 'Subtle Plans are Here Again'." - Edmund Blackadder

In article <1991Jun24.102043.18744@aifh.ed.ac.uk> hazel@cstr.ed.ac.uk (Hazel Sydeserff) writes:
> >In article <AWB.91Jun23135543@stoat.uk.ac.ed.aipna>, awb@ed.ac.uk (Alan W Black) writes:
> >|> In article <PVOSSLER.91Jun21140004@exua.exua.exeter.ac.uk> PVossler@exua.exeter.ac.uk (Phil Vossler) writes:
> >|> 
> >|> > The final episode of the current series of T.P. was shown on BBC 2 in
> >|> > the U.K.  last Tuesday. I'd like to know if the rumour I have heard
> >|> > that the last episode in the U.S. was a two hour marathon is true. If
> >|> > so that explains why there were odd threads left dangling in the fifty
> >|> > minute finale we were presented with. My impression was that it had
> >|> > been hacked dowb to wrap up the series in one showing.
> >
> >Remember that in the US the show was interspersed with adverts, which we, 
> >watching the good old BBC, did not have. That would take quite a few 
> >minutes off the actual show time over two hours.

Yep.  Besides the two-episodes-back-to-back way in which the show ended here
in the States, you can usually figure on an average of about 6 minutes of
commercials per half hour.  This average varies with time of day, day of
the week, and particular show.  Actual commercial time also varies over the
course of a particular show, typically with fewer commercials in the
beginning, and many more towards the end (which was definitely the case
with the TP finale over here).  So a "one hour" commercial program is
really about 48 minutes of actual program content, typically.  For what
it's worth.
-- -larryy@apple.com "You wouldn't recognize a *subtle plan* if it painted itself purple, and danced naked upon a harpsichord, singing, 'Subtle Plans are Here Again'." - Edmund Blackadder

In article <28669400.2742@ics.uci.edu> bvickers@ics.uci.edu (Brett J. Vickers) writes:
> >giovin@medr0.ecs.umass.edu (Rocky J Giovinazzo) writes:
>> >>I don't equate BOB and the LMFAP either, but I think that this is where
>> >>people who do equate them are coming from:  The LMFAP danced over
>> >>Eckhardt's bed after BOB finished mocking Cooper.

> >No, it's much clearer than that.
> >In episode 2009 (the Leland death episode), Coop figured out that the
> >LMFAP represented Leland who was possessed by Bob.

This is true, but I was thinking of only the actions and words
of the LMFAP.  Cooper's speculation (or semi-deductive reasoning)
isn't really evidence of what the LMFAP is.

Maybe we should start throwing rocks at bottles?

Rocky Giovinazzo

I've looked at the scene that has been mentioned with Eckhardt and Jones both
speaking one sentence each of a foreign language.  I my best estimation and
after three years of Russian in college IMHO they are not speaking Russian as
suggested, however because their lines are short and quick I can't state for
sure that is was not a type of Slavic language or Eastern European dialect
because there are so many.  Would like to know exactly what was stated between
the two.  I will ask a couple of foreign language professors that I know (who
are also big Peakers!) for a translation into English.


Don Kasprzak
UToledo

In article <10640011@hpsciz.sc.hp.com> miller@hpsciz.sc.hp.com (Phil Miller) writes:
> >alternat@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Ann Hodgins) writes:
> >
>> >>So Laura in a coffee cup. What the heck does *that* mean?!
> > 
>> >>All I could think of was an old Carly Simon hit: You're So Vain.
[...]
> >
> >       I remember many years ago hearing that "Your So Vain" was written
> >about Mick Jagger.  In fact, I think he's singing in the background on 
> >Carly Simon's version.
> >
> >                                 Phil

I'm pretty sure it was written about Warren Beatty, with whom she had
just broken up or something when the song was made.  Mick Jagger might
have been singing in the background, though.  I guess this doesn't have
much to do with Twin Peaks, but it could help if anybody is ever on
Jeopardy.

ObTP: I thought that Laura was in the coffee cup because they almost
always have a picture of Laura over the closing credits.  *That* part
I think was put in when they knew they wouldn't have any more shows,
to remind us all of everything we can be nostalgic about --- coffee
*and* Laura in one shot.  It brought tears to MY eyes.

-carol

--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Carol Osterbrock                        *  Such a long, long time to be gone, 
carolo@cis.ucsc.edu                     *     And a short time to be there...
================================================================================

First of all I want to say I don't know what particular scene you are talking
about since I missed the start of the discussion. It reminded me however of a
scene where a sentence Dutch was uttered. The line was

"Zij is voorspelbaar geword (sic)"

This means : "she has become predictable".
I don't remember the scene exactly, but if you're interested I will look up
the episode involved-I would not mind that.

Michiel v.d. Korst
email : wsinmvdk@info.win.tue.nl

I think this has been answered in the Frequently Asked Questions List,
or if not, it should be: Jones & Eckhardt were speaking Afrikaans, one
of the languages of South Africa.  It is descended from Dutch, hence its
intelligibility to a Duch speaker.  That is why Jones asked ot contact
the South African consulate after she attacked Truman. -- J

In article <1991Jun22.174333.24700@risky.ecs.umass.edu>, giovin@medr0.ecs.umass.edu (Rocky J Giovinazzo) writes:
> > In article <51011@ut-emx.uucp> osmigo@ut-emx.uucp (Ron Morgan) writes:
>> >>In article <1991Jun22.024128.14132@risky.ecs.umass.edu> giovin@medr0.ecs.umass.edu (Rocky J Giovinazzo) writes:
>>> >>>In article <50991@ut-emx.uucp> osmigo@ut-emx.uucp (Ron Morgan) writes:
>> >>
>>>> >>>>The "voice that Sarah Palmer speaks" was that of Windom Earle.
>>> >>>What makes you so sure? 
> > 
> > [text about close captioning deleted]
>> >>In this case, it said:
>> >>(voice of Windom Earle)"I'm with Laura in the Black Lodge."
> > 
>> >>That's where I'm coming from with my statement that Sarah's voice was that
>> >>of Windom Earle's.
> > 
> > I'm sorry to learn of your hearing disability.  Although
> > your information makes it pretty clear that WE was the voice speaking
> > through Sarah, what you read is definitely not what Sarah said.  The
> > first words are absolutely, "I'm in the black lodge with ..."
> > The last words, in my opinion, are "Agent Cooper."
> > 
> > Rocky Giovinazzo  

The voice did say "I'm in the black lodge with Agent Cooper."

--Cool Bean
-- **This is not cultural.

In article <1991Jun24.185218.15144@risky.ecs.umass.edu>, giovin@medr1.ecs.umass.edu (Rocky J Giovinazzo) writes:
> > In article <11263@castle.ed.ac.uk> bob@castle.ed.ac.uk (Bob Gray) writes:
>> >>The qualities needed to survive in the Black lodge seem to
>> >>be the same as those which are required to enter the white
>> >>lodge. You enter the black lodge, and if you survive you are
>> >>in the white lodge.
> > 
>> >>The lodge is just a place where people are tested.
> > 
>> >>The Major and the Log Lady were both tested there. They were
>> >>both gone for about a day, testing Cooper took the same
>> >>length of time. The Major and the LL both passed the test,
>> >>and were marked. (A sort of hallmark).
> > 
>> >>When the Major was being tested he saw the lodge as an
>> >>ornamental garden (of a castle?). When Cooper is tested, the
> > 
> > I don't think that this is how it worked.  The major said that he
> > had "been taken to" the White Lodge.  The hooded figure apparently 
> > brought him there.
> > 
> > Rocky Giovinazzo

Besides that both Hawk and the Major described the WL and BL as two
different places.  You have to go through the BL to get into the WL.
And something about having to defeat your greatest fear in order to
get out of the BL.  Etc....

--Cool Bean
-- **This is not cultural.

I've updated in the TP FTP archive the Edwin Nomura episode synopsis for-
matted for Microsoft Word. It is now complete through the final episode:
#2021 parts 1 and 2. Also updated is the version usable on the IBM PC
(DOS/Windows) version of MS Word.

 The FTP archive: audrey.sait.edu.au [130.220.16.88]

 directory:   /pub/twin-peaks

 files:       timeline-Word.sit.hqx  (111 KB)   for Macintosh 
              tlWord.RTF             (201 KB)   for DOS/Windows
              timeline               (165 KB)   Edwin's orig. Ascii
              timeline.Z              (70 KB)   " " " compressed

Included in the MS Word version are Jerry Boyajian's invented titles for
each episode (plus a few of my own). It comes to 49 pages with title page
and table of contents. Fonts used are Times and Helvetica.

timeline-Word.sit.hqx -- for Macintosh
  Move this file to a Macintosh (replacing newlines with CR's if neces-
  sary) and process it with BinHex 4.0 to produce "TP timeline (full).sit";
  process this file with Stuffit v1.5.1 to produce "TP timeline (full)".

tlWord.RTF -- for DOS/Windows
  Import this file into the DOS/Windows version of MS Word using the RTF
  (rich text format) import filter.

For those without FTP access, you can mail me an 8.5"x11" SASE with enough
postage for ~25 pages. Enclose a floppy if you want the MS Word files too.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keith Dawson | Nudiustertian Consultants | 50 North St., Westford, MA 01886-1247
dawson@world.std.com [after June 29]       dawson@Atex.Kodak.COM [until June 28]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In article <42200005@hpsmtc1.cup.hp.com>, azayha@hpsmtc1.cup.hp.com (Albert Zayha) writes:
> > I would interpret Laura's upsidedownness as representing her Doppelganger,
> > as you would see a face reflected in a pool, for example the pool near
> > the entrance to the black lodge.

I think it all meant that coffee is evil :)

-Cool Bean
-- **This is not cultural.

This review is pap.

First, he gives no credit to Frost.

Second, he reviews the ending as if it was something grandly
plotted and planned to BE and ending.  All it was meant to
be was a season two cliffhanger.  This renders all the
BS about the end more or less meaningless.

doug

Ah yes, but WE stole the only vehicle loaded with trout!  (Seven that is...)

danp@beach.csulb.edu (Dan Penkauskas) writes:

> >In your sig...  Is that yet another Buckaroo Banzai quote?  Great!!

Oh, plenty more where that came from ... :-)  Although there's currently been
an outbreak of fighting in my .fortune file between the BB quotes and the
MYSTERY SCIENCE THEATER 3000 quotes ... should cut down the numbers a
little ...

> >Is it just me, or do some of you others see a thread in BB, Repo Man, and *all*
> >of David Lynch's stuff?

Most definitively [sic]!


===============================================================================
    :: :: :: :: ::      Synth           synth@yenta.alb.nm.us   "Come on,
 :: :: :: :: :: :: ::   (F. Oberheim)   synth@euler.unm.edu        Concord!"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Fire your boss! Get out of the rat race forever. Call 24hr msg (505) 764-0621
===============================================================================
"I am your DOCTOR!  I'm here to BLEED you!  I have the LEECHES!"

One thing that needs to be pointed out here is that Lynch/Frost tend to
bend the rules a bit.

Take Leo for example, any one with a spinal cord injury, paralysis, or
anyone confined to a wheel chair for an extended period for that matter
would require considerable physical therapy.  They would not be able to
get up from a wheelchair and swing and ax and walk into the woods alone.
No way.

So if you want to get technical aboput what is possible and what isn't;
remember  their reality is not neccesarily our reality and anything cn
happen in Twin Peaks (esp. for plots sake.

I would like to think, given this scope, that audrey et.al are still alive.

Sharon L. West
sw2k@andrew.cmu.edu
Carnegie Mellon University

In article <10640011@hpsciz.sc.hp.com>, miller@hpsciz.sc.hp.com (Phil Miller) writes:
|> alternat@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Ann Hodgins) writes:
|> 
   As long as we're off the subject...

|>        I remember many years ago hearing that "Your So Vain" was written
|> about Mick Jagger.  In fact, I think he's singing in the background on 
|> Carly Simon's version.
|> 
|>                                  Phil

     Mick Jagger is indeed backup vocals for the song, but the song is about
Warren Beatty, who in case you couldn't guess, had just finished a relationship
with Ms. Simon.

     Hey, I'm the Answer Man!  Where's that Shell job application...
-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian D. Moore | Homebrewing -- the only sport exclusively for Space Physics and Astronomy | anal-retentive alcoholics. Rice University, Houston TX | Relax -- have a home brew. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'M IN THE BLACK LODGE WITH AGENT COOPER.

DEL THE BANKER WAS WEARING THE GLASSES.

JONES AND THOMAS WERE SPEAKING AFRIKAANS.

I'M WORRIED ABOUT YOU COOP.


--Cool Bean
-- **This is not cultural.

There was an article entitled TV: Winners That Were Losers in the
above referenced publication.  The following is a copy of the
more interesting parts of the article:(by Robert Goldberg)

"Every year around this time, as the TV seasondraws to a close, I try
to wrap things up by compiling a list of the season's 10 best series.
In recent years, I've been having trouble coming up with 10.

"This season seemed especially bleak.  It was a season that didn't turn
out a single hit, much to the chagrin of the networks...


"And now, at the end of the year, comes the final insult:  Most of the
shows that I would have put on the top 10 list are being canceled."

[The article then lists and describes "China Beach," "thirtysomething,"
"Shannon's Deal," "The Antagonists,"  and of course]

"Twin Peaks" - And finally, there's The Peaks.  Covered in fog, shrouded
with menace, "Twin Peaks went out in a great blaze of glory recently with
a grand finale that was one of the most indecipherable shows ever to air
on TV.  A triumph of style and symbolism over story line, it reunited the
whole cast, from Bob to Laura Palmer, in some sort of strange netherworld
- hell as a waiting room.  And then, at the very end, in the ultimate
affront to their viewers, executive producers David Lynch and Mark Frost
reveal that our hero, Agent Cooper, had in fact become Bob, the evil
spirit.  What did it all mean?  Who knows?

"When the "Twin Peaks" finale aired to anemic ratings, it was taken by the
networks as proof positive that there is no audience for experimental
television.  I believe this is a fundamental misreading of the American
couch potato.  For many weeks, a huge viewership was not only watching,
but obsessed by this idiosyncratic world of coffee, donuts, and zen-
toting G-men.  "Twin Peaks" may have eventually sunk under the weight
of its own weirdness, but this show was a noble experiment, one of the
noblestm and I believe there's an audience hungry for more. [Right gang?]
Granted, they aren't the typical TV watchers, but they are exactly the
upscale viewers that advertisers prize.

"One year ago, NBC's oracle, Brandon Tartikoff, seemed to believe this.
He pronounced that "tried and true is dead and buried."  The networks
were all set to plunge headfirst into the great pool of experimentation.
A year later, here are the results:  After gingerly testing the waters
with one big toe, the nets have run away screeching.  Mr. Tartikoff has
left NBC and TV for Paramount.  Tried and true has been disinterred.
Next fall's shows will be an exhumantion of sitcoms, sitcoms, and more
sitcoms (an all time high of 49 comedies), featuring such old warhorses
as Norman Lear, Red Foxx, James Garner, and Suzanne Somers.

"These are bad times for CBS, NBC, and ABC.  They continue to lose their
audience - chunks drop away, year of year.  Advertising sales are also
slumping.  And instead of seeking out to innovate ideas, the networks are
retreating to the same old tired concepts in times of crisis.

"So here's a prediction for the 1991-1992 season.  Mr. Tartikoff, always
a leader knew when to get out.  Tried and true will end up dead and
buried."


Partially reprinted without permission.

Perhaps this has been mentioned numerous times - I do not seem
to remember seeing or hearing about it before.

I was watching the 2 hr finale again with my wife.  Yes, I remember
how ticked I was the last time, but I wanted to see her reaction to
some of the stuff (she wasnt nearly as ticked off - but then,I kept
stopping the tape to take notes and draw maps... :-()

Anyways, during the opening, when we were shown what had happened last time,
I stopped the tape and wondered why I had not noticed before that when
the giant appeared, the circle of spotlight that highlited him also
highlited 4 letters on the banner above his head.  The banner read:

20th Anniversary Twin Peaks

or something close to that.  And the letters highlighted were:

Anni

--
Larry W. Virden                 UUCP: osu-cis!chemabs!lwv27
Same Mbox: BITNET: lwv27@cas    INET: lwv27%cas.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.Edu
Personal: 674 Falls Place,   Reynoldsburg,OH 43068-1614
America Online: lvirden

In article <10640011@hpsciz.sc.hp.com>, miller@hpsciz.sc.hp.com (Phil Miller)
says:
> >
> >alternat@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Ann Hodgins) writes:
>> >>And the lines, "I had some dreams, they were clouds in your coffee, clouds
> >
>> >>I never forgot those lines because
>> >>1) what the hell are clouds in coffee?
>> >>2) the song *was* about him.  :-)
> >
> >
> >        "Clouds in your coffee" probably meant her dining partner was
> >hung-over or spaced-out for breakfast that morning, and the coffee didn't

For those of us who normally take our damn fine coffee black (deep black
 Joe) "clouds in coffee " means little, but for those of us who
drink coffee with cream/milk,  "clouds" are the remarkable formulations
that appear once the coffee has cooled a bit... swirling whorls of cloudy
shapes, differentlayers and depths of suspended lactate particles...

Just my .02 interpretation of The former Mrs. Taylor's hit tune...
___/:_/:__
{:/~~~~~o:o  Twin Peaks....
{/:___{__()  Somewhere Over the "Rainbow"?

Warren Beatty was/is the oh so vain one immortalized in Carly's song--around
1970, I seem to remember.  They had briefly been an "item."

Obviously Carly << Madonna.

In article <1991Jun24.141710.7088@tsltor.uucp>, stevew@tsltor.uucp (Stephen Webb) writes:
> > The Major had been injected with Haloperidol to help WE reveal facts about the
> > Black Lodge, right?  Wasn't that the same drug Mike the OAM was taking to
> > control his "problem"?

Where does everybody get this assumption that the Major was injected with
haloperidol?  Nobody ever says so on the show.  The "haloperidol cocktail"
the OAM uses is blue, and WE's wasn't that misture, at least.  It's more reasonable
to assume WE just used one or another of the truth drugs.
-- cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet...

cdt@sw.stratus.com (CD Tavares) writes:

> >In article <1991Jun24.141710.7088@tsltor.uucp>, stevew@tsltor.uucp (Stephen Webb) writes:
>> >> The Major had been injected with Haloperidol to help WE reveal facts about the
>> >> Black Lodge, right?  Wasn't that the same drug Mike the OAM was taking to
>> >> control his "problem"?

> >Where does everybody get this assumption that the Major was injected with
> >haloperidol?  Nobody ever says so on the show.  The "haloperidol cocktail"
> >the OAM uses is blue, and WE's wasn't that misture, at least.  It's more reasonable
> >to assume WE just used one or another of the truth drugs.
> >-- 

> >cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
> >OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...

Because Coop sniffs around the Major and says "He's been shot full of        
haloperidol."

That's why.


-- Prisoner 24601 "My purpose here is not to name all the valjean@uiuc.edupossibilities. My purpose is to create strife sarwate@ux1.cso.uiuc.eduand controversy for no good reason." SANJIV@UIUCVMD.BITNET-Dave Barry, from Dave Barry Talks Back

In article <YcNpVAu00UzxI1Q20X@andrew.cmu.edu> sw2k+@andrew.cmu.edu (Sharon Lee
West) writes:
> >One thing that needs to be pointed out here is that Lynch/Frost tend to
> >bend the rules a bit.
> >
> >Take Leo for example, any one with a spinal cord injury, paralysis, or
> >anyone confined to a wheel chair for an extended period for that matter
> >would require considerable physical therapy.  They would not be able to
> >get up from a wheelchair and swing and ax and walk into the woods alone.
> >No way.
> >
> >So if you want to get technical aboput what is possible and what isn't;
> >remember  their reality is not neccesarily our reality and anything cn
> >happen in Twin Peaks (esp. for plots sake.
> >
> >I would like to think, given this scope, that audrey et.al are still alive.
> >
> >Sharon L. West

Those of you have seen one of the old serials that used to run at the movies on
Saturdays between the double features (all for 25 cents; eat your hearts out)
will recall that each episode typically ended with the hero or heroine in a
perilous situation (the expression 'cliffhanger' comes from one such
situation). Rocky and Bullwinkle fans will be familiar with that format also.

Some episode endings even made death the only _plausible_ outcome. The next
episode would begin with the horrifying ending of the preceeding, but with a
twist that resulted in a miraculous survival. Sometimes it was just a change of
camera angle that let you see a last minute jump to safety or the like. On that
basis, don't rule out either Audrey or Pete. Hopefully Andrew is toast, but
even he could survive.

-Rich Haller

In article <1991Jun25.093526.13041@pbs.org> mpax@pbs.org (Cool Bean) writes:
> >In article <1991Jun24.185218.15144@risky.ecs.umass.edu>,
giovin@medr1.ecs.umass.edu (Rocky J Giovinazzo) writes:
>> >> In article <11263@castle.ed.ac.uk> bob@castle.ed.ac.uk (Bob Gray) writes:
>>> >>>The qualities needed to survive in the Black lodge seem to
>>> >>>be the same as those which are required to enter the white
>>> >>>lodge. You enter the black lodge, and if you survive you are
>>> >>>in the white lodge.
>> >> 
>>> >>>The lodge is just a place where people are tested.
>> >> 
>>> >>>The Major and the Log Lady were both tested there. They were
>>> >>>both gone for about a day, testing Cooper took the same
>>> >>>length of time. The Major and the LL both passed the test,
>>> >>>and were marked. (A sort of hallmark).
>> >> 
>>> >>>When the Major was being tested he saw the lodge as an
>>> >>>ornamental garden (of a castle?). When Cooper is tested, the
>> >> 
>> >> I don't think that this is how it worked.  The major said that he
>> >> had "been taken to" the White Lodge.  The hooded figure apparently 
>> >> brought him there.
>> >> 
>> >> Rocky Giovinazzo
> >
> >Besides that both Hawk and the Major described the WL and BL as two
> >different places.  You have to go through the BL to get into the WL.
> >And something about having to defeat your greatest fear in order to
> >get out of the BL.  Etc....

In article <10640011@hpsciz.sc.hp.com> miller@hpsciz.sc.hp.com (Phil Miller) writes:
> >alternat@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Ann Hodgins) writes:
>> >>All I could think of was an old Carly Simon hit: You're So Vain.
>> >>And the lines, "I had some dreams, they were clouds in your coffee, clouds 
>> >>in your coffee and you're so vain you prob'ly think this song is
>> >>about you."
> > 
> >        "Clouds in your coffee" probably meant her dining partner was
> >hung-over or spaced-out for breakfast that morning, and the coffee didn't
> >do anything to remedy it.

I don't think it means that at all -- I think it means her dreams were
no more substantial to him than the clouds he could see reflected in his
coffee.  Either that or it suggested he preferred his coffee black and
her dreams were unwanted intrusions as cream would be (which looks like
clouds when first poured in).

I also don't agree, exactly, that the song was about *him* so much as the
it was about his *vanity* and the pain he caused *her*, things that he
is completely blind to.

Now, how we got onto this in a TP thread...

Anyway, the end of the last episode of Twin Peaks does not show Laura inside
a coffee cup, it shows her face reflected in the cup of coffee, which means:

1) She is definitely a resident of the Black/White/Gray/Red Lodge.

2) Could possibly be showing that she is still controlled by Bob,
   since her reflection is shown in a cup of coffee that was being
   controlled by Bob in the "Wow, Bob, wow!" scene.

3) Or maybe it doesn't mean anything at all beyond that Lynch thought
   showing Laura's reflection in the coffee cup would make an
   interesting visual image.

-Pete Zakel
 (phz@cadence.com or ..!uunet!cadence!phz)

"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."  -S. Freud

Has anyone figured out the significance of sycamores as the trees forming the
Glastonbury Grove?
The TP Access Guide says they are Doug Firs.
Druids, who are an obvious choice for the hooded ones, favored oaks and the
mistletoe that grows in them.
The famous tree at the actual Glastonbury is a hawthorne.
The famous ygdrysyl (spelling?) was an ash.

All I have been able to find so far is that 
1) sycamore and hawthorne are the favorites for decking thresholds or planting
out front of houses for may day celebrations in the area around Glastonbury,
though apparently not in groves. (Groves associated with druidism were oaks).
2) a different tree (a fig, actually) by the same name was favored by egyptians
for making coffins, probably due to its association with Osirus (?).
3) supposedly a sycamore figures in the holy family's flight to egypt.

-Rich Haller

In article <6302@lectroid.sw.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (CD Tavares) writes:
   In article <1991Jun24.141710.7088@tsltor.uucp>, stevew@tsltor.uucp (Stephen Webb) writes:
   > The Major had been injected with Haloperidol to help WE reveal facts about the
   > Black Lodge, right?  Wasn't that the same drug Mike the OAM was taking to
   > control his "problem"?
   Where does everybody get this assumption that the Major was injected with
   haloperidol?  Nobody ever says so on the show.

Yes, they did say so on the show.  Dr. Hayward told Cooper that that was
what was wrong with the Major after they got him back.

Muffy

In article <1543@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU> helmut@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
(Helmut Hissen) writes:
> >
[deletions]
> >
> >can somebody fill me in on the 12 rainbow trout and why they got left in the
> >pickup truck ?  
> >

I'm sure that there is some sort of significance and I have a vague feeling it
has to do with W.B. Yeats poetry, but I can't put my finger on it. Someone out
there must know. Please enlighten us.  Also, does anyone have a copy of the
postings on the Yeats poem about Mummy Wheat that WE quoted? If so, please
mail.

-Rich Haller

Hey kids...

I didn't get to tape the final 2-hour episode while I watched it,
and I got a phone call during the scene where the Haywards & Hornes are
gathered, then Ben dies...

What was the connection between all of these people? I know that Ben
is Donna's father, but how was Mrs. Horne related in all of this? I thought
I heard the word "incest" in the heated conversation that led up to Ben's
death, but I was very unclear about what happened.

Could someone e-mail me the info -- what was the connection and what
was all that that happened in the room leading up to Ben's death? Did Doc
Hayward slam him against the fireplace?? 

I'd appreciate any help anyone can give me to clear this up, since
it is one of the few things that CAN BE answered after the last episode...:^)

Thanx

Ed Ingraffia     ingraffi@tramp.colorado.edu