Season 2, Episodes 21–22: Miss Twin Peaks / Beyond Life and Death — June 10, 1991–August 27, 1992

  These are I hope the last of my series of comments on repeated viewings of th
e finale.

1.  Have I missed it or did nobody mention the chessboard image on the floor of
 the stage in the Miss Twin Peaks Pageant?  With Annie looking like a white que
en (i.e. Windom's queen)?

2.  My previous post about the Indian war whoop DOES seem to reflect Johnny Hor
ne as well as Hawk, I realized this as soon as I logged off last time.  Good be
 a better story line there.

3.  There seems to be a general confusion about the bandage on Mike Nelson's he
ad.  He did not recieve Bobby's wound, as some would have it.  Chronologically,
 Bobby is hit by WE's log, Nadine is hit by a sandbag, and THEN Mike says he wa
s hit by a tree.  Maybe WE bonked him on the way out.

4.  The pool at the entrance to the Lodge is a pool of the oil.  Apparently, an
 individual leaving the BL might carry a faint trace of the scent for a few day
s, but if Leland smelled like that, then surely there is more to it?  Think abo
ut it.  The pool of oil is at the entrance to the BL.  It smells like BURNT eng
ine oil.  "Fire walk with me".  Is there a connection?  Maybe something is acco
mplished by lighting the pool of oil on fire?  Does this have anything to do wi
th the Bookhouse Boys performance mentioned in the travel guide?  Or maybe the
scene in the railraod car where Laura was murdered?  This is, I think, a crucia
l plot point.

5.  About the large number of complaint about Coop's silence and inactivity in
the Lodge.  I think you're all nuts.  I had been worried about too much convers
ation.  I was actually afraid that Harry would enter either with Coop or after
him, and we would spend the whole time hearing "Who's this?  What are they talk
ing about?  Where do we go now?  Where did all that blood come from?"  True, we
 would maybe have seen Josie that way, but the eerieness of that whole hour wou
ld have been lost.  Seriously, I was pretty terrified, particularly of Laura!
_______________________________________________________________________________
|                   |                                                         |
|Kyle R. Krom       |  "I haven't been this excited since I punctured         |
|Penn State Chem Guy|   Caroline's aorta!"                                    |
|krk4@psuvm.psu.edu |                                                         |
|___________________|_________________________________________________________|

Now that TP's run is over, I am looking to consolidate my tapes of the
show.  I find myself in need of the dream episode (1/2?) from the first
season.  If someone can send me a copy, I would be most appreciative.
Thanks in advance, and say, how's Annie?

John Schultz (caffeine abuser)    "Ma'am, I am endeavoring to construct
c491153@umcvmb.bitnet             a mnemonic memory circuit using stone
c491153@umcvmb.missouri.edu       knives and bearskins." - Mr. Spock
Macintosh-free and proud of it!   Subscriber to the hacker ethic.

Does anyone realize that they weren't really talking backwards in the
B/W lodges?  It was just altered.  If you listen, you can make out the
words plainly... sans sub-titles.

Dan

In article <APPEL.91Jun18174948@con.xcf.Berkeley.EDU> appel@xcf.Berkeley.EDU (Shannon D. Appel) writes:
> >In article <54112@apple.Apple.COM> larryy@Apple.COM (Larry Yaeger) writes:
>> >>In the original, classic dream sequence, after "Laura" (who the LMFAP has
>> >>said is really his cousin?) makes that comment about her arms bending back,
>> >>the LMFAP says:  "She's filled with secrets.  Where we're from the birds sing
>> >>a pretty song and there's always music in the air."
>> >>
>> >>Note that he says "we", and the description of their home certainly sounds
>> >>more like the White Lodge than the Black Lodge.  I've always thought that
> >
> >Not.
> >They made the record player in the Palmer house pretty darned obvious
> >throughout the first season, especially during the episodes right around
> >where Maddy was killed.  "There's always music in the air."

Well, I suppose this could be the meaning, but it's awfully obscure, and
doesn't address the "birds singing", so I think I'll stick with my
interpretation.

> >Your thoughts about that "we" fall apart anyways, because Laura is most
> >definitely not from the White Lodge.  They were both from the Palmer House
> >though, yes?

Don't think so... Laura, in the show to some extent, and especially in the
Secret Diary, is shown to be a surprisingly strong character.  The drugs
and prostitution and such are sort of to show BOB that he can't hurt her
with excess and sexuality.  She resists BOB to the end, preferring death
to possession.  In fact, until the final episode suggested that there may
very well be good and bad versions of everyone all the time, I would most
certainly have placed Laura in the White Lodge, rather than the Black Lodge.
And in the finale, I think it is pretty clearly a good/White Laura that
tells Cooper she will see him in 25 years, and, as others have pointed out,
is a good Laura speaking to a 25-year-older Coop in the original dream
sequence.  (For what it's worth, the Euro-film version even has a title
card come up before the dream sequence that says "25 years later", so I'm
reasonably certain that there is a connection between Laura's line in the
finale and that original dream sequence - at least in Lynch's mind.)

So I still think that the LMFAP is either a good guy or a union-of-the-two,
noncommital kind of guy (someone else suggested a St. Peter figure that
mans the gates to perhaps both kingdoms).  Just my opinion.
-- -larryy@apple.com "You wouldn't recognize a *subtle plan* if it painted itself purple, and danced naked upon a harpsichord, singing, 'Subtle Plans are Here Again'." - Edmund Blackadder

From article <1991Jun18.163629.13709@watdragon.waterloo.edu>, by kjmcrae@lotus.waterloo.edu (Kevin McRae):

> In article <20609@sdcc6.ucsd.edu>, jsnell@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Jason Snell) writes:
>> In article <1991Jun13.192850.8862@watson.ibm.com> rubin@watson.ibm.com (Bill Rubin) writes:
>> Honestly, even though they axed what I consider two of the best shows of all
>> time (Twin Peaks, and the BEST show ever, "Max Headroom"), the fact is that
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^?????
> How could anyone stand any more than 30 seconds of that show?!?

Well I could for one, af course a sense of satire helps. "Between the
streets of Dallas and th beaches of Miami, THIS was Max Headrooms finest
hour!" Paraphrased. This line appeared in an episode after ABC gave the
show another chance by scheduling it between Dallas and Miami Vice. Also
the treatment of the TV ratings system as if it were the stock market
(complete with real-time ratings updates) was very good... Also this show
USED stereo as opposed to a lot of "in stereo where avail" shows that have
only the theme song in stereo. And now Twin Peaks USING surround.

Ahh but i digress...

Did anyone else notice when the "log lady" (WE in disguise) "moved" across
the room from the bar to near the exit. The guy form the weasle incident
who was bugging him reached over into empty air and bobby who looked over
toward the bar, saw the "log lady" turned toward the exit, saw the "log
lady" looked back toward the bar, no "log lady". I haven't rewatched it
yet to see if I saw this right, but I haven't seen anyone else mention it
so I thought I would.
-- 
VAX Headroom Speaking for myself only... blah blah blahblah blah...
Internet: DMARTIN@CC.WEBER.EDU dave@saltlcy-unisys.army.mil
uucp: dave@unislc.uucp or use the Path: line.
Now was that civilized? No, clearly not. Fun, but in no sense civilized.

In article <1991Jun19.144909.28416@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> 
stvan@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Laurel Smith Stvan) writes:
[Stuff deleted]
> >Who (else) do you suppose Annie is addressing when she whispers something
> >like "let the wicked fall into their own nets while I with Thou escape"?
> >
> >I think the sycamore trees song is the saddest, most haunting music I have
> >ever heard.
> >
> >Laurel
> > 

I don't have a copy of the Bible here, but I think that Annie was reciting
the 23rd Psalm, which is traditionally said when facing mortal danger and
states that one is placing one's faith in God's protection.  Then again, it
might be the Lord's Prayer, with similar intent.  Remember that until
recently she was a nun.

I've transcribed the lyrics to "Under Sycamore Trees" and hope I haven't
made any errors of poor hearing.  Let me know if I did, though:

Under Sycamore Trees
by David Lynch

Under the sycamore trees
in the still
And you'll see me
And I'll see you
in the branches that blow.
In the reach (real?)
I'll see you in the trees.
I'll see you in the trees
Under the sycamore trees.



-- | Ron Sires: rsires@well.sf.ca.us (NetMail) | | | | Currently seeking position programming in C, dBASE, Clipper under MS-DOS | | in the San Francisco Area. Please send email if you can help. Thanks! |

Peter Straub and Stephen King wrote a book entitled "Talisman" which
dealt with multiple universes, doubles, time and so forth.  A black
hotel and a white hotel were key locations.  All-in-all the book
reminded me of a cross between "The Wizard of Oz" and "The Shining".

This is, perhaps, my favorite horror book.  Throughout the "Twin
Peaks" episodes, I have considered the similarities between the
hotels and the lodges as well as the subject of co-existent
universes.  This might be a "good read" for people intrigued
by the white and black lodges.

Connie

In article <1991Jun19.211549.1066@bsu-ucs.uucp>, 01dbjohns@bsu-ucs.uucp writes:
# Does anyone realize that they weren't really talking backwards in the
# B/W lodges?  It was just altered.  If you listen, you can make out the
# words plainly... sans sub-titles.

They recorded the scenes with everyone pronouncing forward-sentences
backwards, so that when the scene is played in reverse, the sentences
are forward-sounding.  For example, videotape yourself saying the
word "Oh Leh", and when you play it in reverse, you're saying "hello"
albeit strangely.  Weird effect -- thanks David Lynch!

Now, would someone kindly explain the meaning of the last episode to me?

-- Brian Ross. Diet Pepsi rules. bjr@aipna.ed.ac.uk

In article <1991Jun17.110902.53154@eagle.wesleyan.edu>, cfoster@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
> > In article <8CF440B@cs.swarthmore.edu>, plummer@cs.swarthmore.edu (David Barker-Plummer) writes:
>>> > >> 3.  The indian war whoop followed by "Hallelujah!" indicates to me that 
>>> > >> Hawk is to be one of the rescuers of Cooper, eventually, and that Dale 
>>> > >> says "Hallelujah!" after he is saved.
> > 
> > When I heard Senor Droolcup make the "whoop! whoop!" indian noise, one of the
> > tumblers in my mind slammed into place.
> > 
> > Is he the same man who played the "stereotypically-mental-defective
> > Western-type" in John Ford's _The Searchers?_
> > 
> > Chris
> > (going to check the Actor's Other Roles list, if there is one)
> > 
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Christopher J. Foster cfoster@eagle.wesleyan.edu or cfoster@wesleyan.bitnet
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, the same guy was in an old show called "The Searchers" according to
someone I work with.  He told me that when he was watching the episode
where Cooper was shot and Senor Droolcup kept slowing walking up to Coop
that he remembered Droolcup having some of the same mannerisms in
Searchers.  Lynch sure seems to be big on "in jokes".

In article <jms.4579@vanth.UUCP>, jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) writes:
> > 
> > My theory is that someone noted the mystical qualities of Glastonberry
> > [sic] Grove and decided to name it after another mystical place,
> > Glastonbury.  (By the way, is Arthur really at Glastonbury?  I thought the
> > Holy Grail was there.  Or are they both there?)

as i recall, no-one is sure where arthur is, or if he existed at all.

Glastonbury is real. the holy grail is unattainable.

the location of camelot is contreversial. almost every area of the uk can make
some kind of claim



-- Neil McDonald, Glasgow, Scotland. "Thirty spokes share one hub" Lao Tzu

From New York Newsday, Fri. 7/19/91:

     "'Peaks' Performers Turn to Screamers"
  
        What happens to the folks who had big roles on the deceased
     "Twin Peaks" shouldn't happen to, well, Dracula.  A batch of
     peakers have ended up being cast in -- horror flicks, what else?
     According to the brand-new issue of Inside Media mag, MADCHEN
     AMICK, who played Shelley, is appearing in *two* soon-to-be-
     released screamers, "The Borrower" (an alien steals people's
     *heads* -- would we make that up?)  and "Stephen King's
     Sleepwalkers" which costars RON PERLMAN.  Ron never made it to
     "Peaks" (we don't think) unless he was disguised as the Log
     Lady's chunk of wood.  LARA FLYNN BOYLE, who played Donna, will
     star opposite DENNIS HOPPER in "Innocent Blood," which Warner's
     describes as a vampire-gangster flick.  What, blood-sucking
     mobsters?  EVERETT McGILL and WENDY ROBIE (Ed and his whacked-out
     wife) will make like married cannibals in "The People Under the
     Stairs" for Universal.  And CAREL STRUYCKEN, who played the giant
     on "Peaks," will portray the butler, Lurch, in Paramount's "The
     Adams Family."

/Ned
walsh@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu

In <1991Jun18.200110.6443@watserv1.waterloo.edu> alternat@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Ann Hodgins) writes:

> >In article <machala.676679134@hcmv2> machala@hcmv2.ti.com (Chuck Machala ) writes:
>> >>will@ogre (William Sadler) writes:
>> >>
>>> >>>Maybe I am reading some of this in, but the finale seemed to be using
>>> >>>a whole bunch of imagery borrowed from Arthurian legends and even
>>> >>>Adonis myths.  The presence of the 12 rainbow trout, the 12 sycamores,
>>> >>>the name of the grove (supposedly the burial place of King Arthur),
>>> >>>and the wound in Cooper's side are all elements of what someone has
>>> >>>termed "fisher-king" archetypes as found in grail stories, the Golden
>>> >>>Bough, etc.  Supposedly what happens is that the knight, in this case
>>> >>>Cooper, finds entrance into some separate place representing the
>>> >>>psyche (?) and is there presented with 5 questions.  
>> >>3 questions!
I mis-typed that originally.
> > 
> >So what are the questions?  And why is he there and why is he called the
> >Fisher king and what happens in the end?
> >
I was a literature major a long time ago, so rather than pretend to
know something that I have forgotten, I would refer anyone interested
in this to Jessie L. Weston's book _From Ritual to Romance_, first
published in 1920 by Cambridge and most recently published in 1980
in Bath by Chivers Press.  There are many books on grail legends
in the same section in the library.

IF I remember correctly, the questions didn't really matter in most
of the stories she surveyed.  The knight is not the Fisher-king, rather
he is supposed to save the fisher-king by obtaining the grail, which
he does, sometimes.  In Catch-22 this is used when Yossarian (sp?)
tries to save Snowden in the plane.  He thinks that he is wounded in
the thigh, but in reality he has a mortal wound in his side.  The
fisher-king always has these wounds.  Also the guy who keeps ditching
his plane and who eventually gets picked up by the Swedish girl scouts
is always fishing whenever they pick him up.  Sort of a neat twist.

Will
 
--
***************************************************************************
*   _______________\|/_      Will Sadler     will@cica.indiana.edu        * 
*   Laser 44888    /|\                       sadler@iubacs.bitnet         *     
***************************************************************************

In article <91170.200524KRK4@psuvm.psu.edu> KRK4@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
> >
> >
> >4.  The pool at the entrance to the Lodge is a pool of the oil.  Apparently, an
> > individual leaving the BL might carry a faint trace of the scent for a few day
> >s, but if Leland smelled like that, then surely there is more to it?  Think abo
> >ut it.  The pool of oil is at the entrance to the BL.  It smells like BURNT eng
> >ine oil.  "Fire walk with me".  Is there a connection?  Maybe something is acco
> >mplished by lighting the pool of oil on fire?  Does this have anything to do wi
> >th the Bookhouse Boys performance mentioned in the travel guide?  Or maybe the
> >scene in the railraod car where Laura was murdered?  This is, I think, a crucia
> >l plot point.
> >
The burnt engine oil is puzzling. If it is really engine oil, then what does
that imply?  Did the black lodge begin with a car crash, a ufo crash?
 
If it is not engine oil but just something that smells and looks like it,
could it be brimstone?  Traditionally hell and devils smell of sulfer and
brimstone.  Is that smell similar to the smell of burnt engine oil? 
 
 
a.h.

> > Does anyone realize that they weren't really talking backwards in the
> > B/W lodges?  It was just altered.  If you listen, you can make out the
> > words plainly... sans sub-titles.
> > 
> > Dan

Yes, you're right. Though I think the way they probably did it was to have the
actors say the lines normally, record it, play it back to the actor backwards
who then attemnpts the reproduce the sound he/she hears. This is then recorded
onto the soundtrack backwards thus producing 'normal' speech which sounds
wierd.


Ian T.

I just thought that maybe some of you TP fans out there with
a Sparcstation would like to know that some of the famous 
things said in the series is available on some ftp sites.

What about having your Sparcstation saying:

"Laura, don't go there."

when you log in.

Other examples:

Agent Cooper saying "Diane, I'm holding in my hands a small 
                     box of chocolate bunnies..."

Agent Cooper saying "Damn good coffee and hot!"


Lucy Morgan giving the station break.


Agent Cooper saying "This must be where pies go when they die."

Catheryn Martel saying to Shelly Johnson:
        "I can't understand a word you're saying, you've got a thing
         in your mouth."

FTP-SITE:

Host dept-gw.cs.yale.edu   (128.36.0.36)
Last updated 05:06  3 Jun 1991

    Location: /pub/SparcSounds/Twin_Peaks

FILES:
47344 Jun 20 16:59 choc.au
23086 Jun 20 16:59 goodcoffee.au
29603 Jun 20 17:00 lucy_rightback.au
19470 Jun 20 17:00 out.au
36988 Jun 20 17:02 pies.au
14231 Jun 20 17:02 smilebag.au
26902 Jun 20 17:02 thing.in.your.mouth.au
17929 Jun 20 17:02 trying.to.think.au
28311 Jun 20 17:03 waldo.au
32544 Jun 20 17:03 wrapped.in.plastic.au

HOW TO MAKE YOUR SPARC PLAY:

The tools is on /usr/demo/SOUND

'x_soundtool' is a menudriven x-application
'play' simply playes the sound from the command line.
'play waldo.au' (option -v controls volume (0-100))

You may have to run raw2audio on some of the files to get them to 
work.
'raw2audio <.au file>' . raw2audio is located in the same directory.

SOUND WHEN A USER LOGIN/LOGOUT:
Edit the /local/bin/xstart file.

Kind regards !
Boerge Haga
Department of Informatics
University of Oslo
Kjeller , Norway
e-mail: boerge@tellus.unik.no
IP-address: 128.39.10.5

For my own interests, I taped three quick sounds this morning and then
recorded them on my SPARC.  They are "Wow, Bob, wow", "Fire walk with me"
and Cooper's entire "How's Annie?" spiel.  Anyone interested in a copies
can send e-mail to the address below; don't expect an immediate reply.
Sufficient interest and I'll just post them or (if someone will tell me
where) I'll ftp them to an archive site.

-- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken Hughes | (hughes@sol.csee.usf.edu) | "..... corn nuts ........." FT-Ph D student, PT-ex-sysadm | Dept of Comp Sci and Eng | .... _Heathers_ University of South Florida | --------------------------------------------------------------------

Did anyone else notice a similarity between the chairs in
the "waiting room" and the ones that were knocked around
by the flood of blood from the elevators in _The Shining_?

-hil

-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hilary K. Justice hjustice@vax1.trincoll.edu justice@eclectic.com

voice from the black lodge

I rewatched the last episode, and the voice that Sarah Palmer
speaks says "I'm in the black lodge with Agent Cooper." 

   ... then

   We cut to the black lodge, hall view, in motion, and the
voice says, "I'm waiting for you."

   Only this time, it was the voice of the little man from
another place! Perhaps he knows Major Briggs!

Darragh
dawn@netcom.COM

In article <1991Jun15.035919.29615@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> djb@mailer.cc.fsu.edu (David Brightbill) writes:
> >Early friday morning, a young man broke the glass out of one of the
> >ground floor doors of the Florida State Capital.  Much of my information
> >is hearsay but the story seems to be that he baricaded himself in the
> >Sergant at arms office and sent out demands on the fax machine.  Among
> >other demands, he is said to have asked for liquor, LSD, chinese food and
> >600 jelly donuts.  Tallahassee's finest had the place surrounded with all
> >sorts of high powered weaponary, swat teams and the bomb robot.  The man
> >gave up to the cops when they faked meeting his demand of a national network
> >news story on his concerns.  He said that he was mad that folks didn't have
> >food to eat and places to stay.  When he surrendured, he was smoking a cigar
> >and drinking whiskey.At last report, there was no word on the fate of teh
> >600 jelly donuts.

A later report said that it was 666 jelly donuts and he wanted them "to
feed the sheriff's deputies."  It sounds a little fishy (sorry...) to me,
but that's what it said.

--
  *  From the disk of:|  jms@vanth.uucp |  "Let's become
  Jim Shaffer, Jr.|  amix.commodore.com!vanth!jms  |   alive again."
  37 Brook Street|  uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms |
  Montgomery, PA 17752|  72750.2335@compuserve.com |   --Yes

In article <1991Jun20.151118.22336@watserv1.waterloo.edu), alternat@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Ann Hodgins) writes...
)In article <91170.200524KRK4@psuvm.psu.edu) KRK4@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
)The burnt engine oil is puzzling. If it is really engine oil, then what does
)that imply?  Did the black lodge begin with a car crash, a ufo crash?
) 
)If it is not engine oil but just something that smells and looks like it,
)could it be brimstone?  Traditionally hell and devils smell of sulfer and
)brimstone.  Is that smell similar to the smell of burnt engine oil? 

Remember when Bob left Leland, and the view at the end of the show was the view 
of the owl (Bob?)?

The owl flew over a car accident right before it reached it's final 
destination.

********************************************* /// *****************************
Steve Owen                                   ///  Only AMIGA makes it possible!
owen@emds.enet.dec.com (now-June 21)     \\\///    Amiga, Unix, Mac, & IBM... 
sowen@lynx.northeastern.edu (June 22-?)   \XX/      All on one machine!

                            WOW, BOB, WOW!

In article <1991Jun18.003540.8638@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> ma2cs240@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Gian Di Loreto) writes:
<Hello all, I recieved a complete first draft of the pilot (entitled Northwest
<passage) and episodes #001 and #002 as a gift.  They were apparently bought in 
<Los Angeles at some shadey store that sells this kind of thing.  

These bookstores are not really "underground" or anything, they
seem to have a good selection of (xeroxed) scripts of about any movie
or TV show you can think of.  They are located mostly on or around
Hollywood Blvd., at least one of them ("Hollywood Book & Poster" I believe)
does mail order.  One can also get original posters there and even 
original theatrical trailers (35mm cine tape rolls).

Jan Bielawski
Computervision R&D, San Diego
jpb@calmasd.prime.com

In article <1991Jun17.131627.23973@ncsu.edu> margaret@ecebucolix.ncsu.edu (Margaret Hudacko) writes:

> >Why does everyone assume that Pete, Audrey and Thomas et al. didn't have
> >time to get out of the bank?  I would think that the "flying glasses"
> >would hint that maybe they made it far enough out of the bank for the
> >ensuing blast to knock Thomas down and send his glasses flying.  After
> >all, we DIDN'T see them blown to bits, what we saw was Thomas
> >opening the safe deposit box, the FUSE of the bomb igniting, and the
> >cut to the exploding windows and then the flying glasses.

   I've been reading this thread for some time. The only _external_
building damage seen was the blown-out windows. Now, there were _no_
windows within the vault area, so two rather inconsistent assumptions arise:

      1) The blast was so fierce that it blew out windows in another room,
         or even perhaps another floor. This seems to indicate that no-one
         could really have survived.
   
      2) Del Midler's glasses blew out of the window. If we take into account
         the slow speed at which _he_ moves, could he have got out of the
         vault area in time?

   If Del managed to get out of the vault area, can we assume that
everyone else (with the probable exception of Audrey) got out too? Two
conclusions are thus produced:

      1) The blast shown occured _later_ than it appeared ie there was a
         considerably longer time between the discovery of the bomb and
         the explosion

      2) Either that, or Lynch buggered up the continuity something rotten.




-- ***************************************************************************** * E-mail (if you can be bothered): * No-one else is responsible for my * * Matt at ch0mpc@uk.ac.bath.gdt OK? * opinions. I don't even think I am . * *****************************************************************************

In article <1991Jun19.082510.23810@aifh.ed.ac.uk> hazel@cstr.ed.ac.uk
(Hazel Sydeserff) writes: >...if they all managed to escape it would
be a bit flukey, a la Scooby Doo/DangerMouse.  > >--

  Sort of...

  (BOB takes off his mask and it's really the Log Lady)
 Cooper: It's you!
 'BOB' : Yeah, and I would have done it too if it hadn't been for
         those meddling kids!


-- ***************************************************************************** * E-mail (if you can be bothered): * No-one else is responsible for my * * Matt at ch0mpc@uk.ac.bath.gdt OK? * opinions. I don't even think I am . * *****************************************************************************

In article <1991Jun18.120228.1051@bsu-ucs.uucp> 01dbjohns@bsu-ucs.uucp writes:
<Did I miss something, or did they not clearly explain the markings on the
<Major's neck?  Where exactly did they come from?  Why did the Major disappear,
<and where did he go?  Why did he come back in the old flight suit?

And, moreover, what did they do with that suit?  I mean, if nobody
has seen it before why isn't anyone shocked to see this suit out of nowhere?
Shouldn't it go to a local museum or something?

Jan Bielawski
Computervision R&D, San Diego
jpb@calmasd.prime.com

In article <23566@shlump.lkg.dec.com> owen@emds.enet.dec.com (Steve
Owen) writes:
    Can someone please mail me the last TP quotes list.  The
whole thing (including as many episodes as possible) would be great! 
   
   Actually, I'd be real grateful if someone could mail me a copy too,
as I'm working on a few quote servers...
   Thanks muchly,
     Matt.

-- ***************************************************************************** * E-mail (if you can be bothered): * No-one else is responsible for my * * Matt at ch0mpc@uk.ac.bath.gdt OK? * opinions. I don't even think I am . * *****************************************************************************

   I've just had a brainwave. It occured about five seconds ago, and
two things triggered it.
   1) A posting that suggested that Bobby Briggs and Mike Scott(?) were
linked psychically (ie Bobby gets hit by the log, Mike claims he was hit
by a tree)
   2) An original copy of an old script, in which I was reminded that
the spirit in the One Armed Man was called 'Mike', and his familiar
was called 'Bob' (ie he who we all know and hate)
 
  Now, here's my point. Is it pure coincidence that there are _two_ pairs
of Mike/Bob ? Could Mike Scott/Mike the Spirit and Bobby Briggs/Bob
have more in common than just their names?
  The point about the log is important. Bobby was hit incredibly hard
(by the sound of WE's smack, and the way he went down) , and yet we
see him later with Shelley with not even a scratch, or a bandage, or
anything, and yet Mike is swathed in a mass of bandages. I think this
is an important lead, but I'm not sure what it indicates...
  Any ideas, folks?
-- ***************************************************************************** * E-mail (if you can be bothered): * No-one else is responsible for my * * Matt at ch0mpc@uk.ac.bath.gdt OK? * opinions. I don't even think I am . * *****************************************************************************

In article <1991Jun20.165522.3591@netcom.COM> dawn@netcom.COM (Darragh Nagle) writes:
> >
> >voice from the black lodge
> >
> >I rewatched the last episode, and the voice that Sarah Palmer
> >speaks says "I'm in the black lodge with Agent Cooper." 
> >
> >   ... then
> >
> >   We cut to the black lodge, hall view, in motion, and the
> >voice says, "I'm waiting for you."
> >
> >   Only this time, it was the voice of the little man from
> >another place! Perhaps he knows Major Briggs!

I thought it was the voice of Major Briggs himself!  That would make
the man smoozing up to Brigg's wife an evil Doppleganger!

In article <0094A5F7.3C8177C0@vax.nott.ac.uk> cczads@vax.nott.ac.uk (Drew Shearsmith) writes:

> >I reckon if it had been a BBC tv production we would now be looking forward
> >to a third series.

   Are you _joking_? Have you _seen_ Doctor Who recently...? No?...Exactly.


-- ***************************************************************************** * E-mail (if you can be bothered): * No-one else is responsible for my * * Matt at ch0mpc@uk.ac.bath.gdt OK? * opinions. I don't even think I am . * *****************************************************************************

In article <1991Jun19.211549.1066@bsu-ucs.uucp> 01dbjohns@bsu-ucs.uucp writes:
> >Does anyone realize that they weren't really talking backwards in the
> >B/W lodges?  It was just altered.  If you listen, you can make out the
> >words plainly... sans sub-titles.

   Look. It's very simple. When they 'rehearsed' their lines, they were
recorded, and then played backwards. The cast then attempted to speak these
'backward' lines (which would sound pretty garbled.) Their attempts would
be recorded and _then_ played backwards, which would sound like they were
spoken forwards. Geddit? That's why they sound weird. This could also be
taken to be the method by which the _movement_ was done ; the characters
_walked_ backwards, and this action was _transmitted_ backwards, which
is why their movement is so stilted too.



-- ***************************************************************************** * E-mail (if you can be bothered): * No-one else is responsible for my * * Matt at ch0mpc@uk.ac.bath.gdt OK? * opinions. I don't even think I am . * *****************************************************************************

In article <91170.200524KRK4@psuvm.psu.edu> KRK4@psuvm.psu.edu writes:

> >  Seriously, I was pretty terrified, particularly of Laura!
 
Am I the only person who found Laura's screaming decidedly NOT scary?
It seemed completely unmotivated by extreme terror or even extreme
rage; just a device to have her step forward and try to scare Cooper.
Could someone who WAS scared perhaps describe for me what it was that
was so frightening for them in that moment.  Perhaps my efforts to try
and figure out what was going on detached me from it emotionally to
the point where I missed the experience.

Barb Miller

Spoilers, if you haven't seen the last episode!!

'
'

'

'

'

You were warned.




Referring to the palindrome, Wow,Bob,Wow:
As I remember, the dwarf said this just before Cooper started running into the
doppelgangers.  There was no doppelganger of Bob, however.  Could the dwarf's
palindrome have some sort of reference to the 2 lodges, each a mirror image of
the other, with Bob in between?  Bob may be more significant than just a
denizen of the black lodge.  After all, he took WE`s soul.

Comments?  Theories?


________________________________________
Kit Aikin            "Civil disobedience"
KJA102@PSUVM
----------------------------------------

In article <1991Jun20.165522.3591@netcom.COM> dawn@netcom.COM (Darragh Nagle) writes:
> >voice from the black lodge
> >I rewatched the last episode, and the voice that Sarah Palmer
> >speaks says "I'm in the black lodge with Agent Cooper." 
> >   We cut to the black lodge, hall view, in motion, and the
> >voice says, "I'm waiting for you."

The voice is actually in three stages: the first is Sarah Palmer's,
the second is a slowed-down version of someone, and the third (the
one during the hall view of the lodge(s)) is the standard backwards-
forwards style.

Has anyone tried speeding up the second of the three stages to identify
the voice?

-- Bernie Roehl, University of Waterloo Electrical Engineering Dept Mail: broehl@sunee.waterloo.edu OR broehl@sunee.UWaterloo.ca BangPath: {allegra,decvax,utzoo,clyde}!watmath!sunee!broehl Voice: (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]

In article <1991Jun19.211549.1066@bsu-ucs.uucp> 01dbjohns@bsu-ucs.uucp writes:
> >Does anyone realize that they weren't really talking backwards in the
> >B/W lodges?  

Does anyone read the FAQL?

> >It was just altered.  

No.




-- Rod Johnson * rjohnson@vela.acs.oakland.edu * (313) 650 2315 "All wax is wedding wax" --Gertrude Stein

In article <91171.155916KJA102@psuvm.psu.edu> KJA102@psuvm.psu.edu writes:

> >Referring to the palindrome, Wow,Bob,Wow:
. . .
> >Comments?  Theories?

It's "mom, pop, mom" upside down.

The twin-peak theme is expressed in the dual points of the W/M, and in
the double W's of "wow", and in the double-wow's of the palindrome.

Just as the double-W's of "wow" represent the twin peaks with the town
of TP between them, the palindrome as a whole represents the twin
"wow"s of the lodges with the mundane world between them--and Bob is
in the place represented by the mundane world.

The reversed-ground version of "mom, pop, mom" is "pop, mom,
pop"--Donna's dilemma.  And the two "pop"s are the "horns" (i.e.,
peaks) of the dilemma.

I can keep this shit up all day.



-- Rod Johnson * rjohnson@vela.acs.oakland.edu * (313) 650 2315 "All wax is wedding wax" --Gertrude Stein

shephard@newsserver.sfu.ca (Gordon Shephard) writes:
> > 
> > Grin.  I wonder how many thousands of people ran to their TV during the
> > credits with their Head upside down.  Yes.  It was Laura.

What? I didn't turn the TV off as soon as the credits start appearing,
but I didn't look at them either. What was this?
--

In article <BARB.91Jun20152334@chamarti.ai.mit.edu> barb@zurich.ai.mit.edu writes:
> >Could someone who WAS scared perhaps describe for me what it was that
> >was so frightening for them in that moment.  Perhaps my efforts to try
> >and figure out what was going on detached me from it emotionally to
> >the point where I missed the experience.

I would guess that was it.  I watched it in the eyes-glued-to-the-screen-
trapped-in-the-Twin-Peaks-world mode I normally watch the show in, and
I felt like I was trapped in the Lodge with Cooper, unable to move or
flee from the nightmarish evil dopplegangers running all over the place.
It was so nasty not knowing what would happen next!  BOB with blue eyes?!
Annie?!!  Windom??!!!  Caroline!!!!!  AAAAAAAAAGGGHH!!!!!!

--
Rob Jellinghaus                 | "Next time you see a lie being spread or
Autodesk, Inc.                  |  a bad decision being made out of sheer
robertj@Autodesk.COM            |  ignorance, pause, and think of hypertext."
{decwrl,uunet}!autodesk!robertj |    -- K. Eric Drexler, _Engines of Creation_

tvanhorn@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Thomas F Van Horne) writes:


> >Bob/Coop is saying "how's Annie" as a parody of his acting like
> >Coop. As in: Hah that goodie-goodie Cooper, to act like him I have
> >to say stupid (and ironic) things like "how's Annie" so I can stay free
> >to kill again.
The continued repeating of things he've said, isn't that a trademark of BoB?
I seem to remember, that Leland did this too(amongst other places, while
driving in the car turning from side to side with a body in the trunk), while
possessed by BoB.
--

barb@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Barb Miller) writes:


> >In article <91170.200524KRK4@psuvm.psu.edu> KRK4@psuvm.psu.edu writes:

>> >>  Seriously, I was pretty terrified, particularly of Laura!
> > 
> >Am I the only person who found Laura's screaming decidedly NOT scary?

   I felt that this was an attempt to re-use a scene which had been very
effective earlier.  This was also the case with bringing Sarah Palmer
back, and, for that, matter, the whole  thing was just a re-run of 
Cooper's ``dancing dwarf'' dream from the first season.  I will confess
I would have liked to see Mr Gerard again, though.

Ok...
It was backwards.  I just hadn't heard how they managed that effect.
I only seriously picked up the series this past year.
Sorry to offend anyone by my ignorance.

cdt@sw.stratus.com (Chris Tavares) writes:

> > APPLICANTS BEARING LOVE OR FEAR, PROCEED DOWN CORRIDOR
> > APPLICANTS BEARING OIL AND ALL OTHERS USE SIDE ENTRANCE        ;-)

"The White Lodge is for Loading and Unloading..."

It is happening again.      It is happening again.      It is happening again.
Joe Zitt ...cs.utexas.edu!kvue!zitt!joe (512)450-1916

Sounded like a really great post right?  Well I for one would love to see a new
SoundTrack Twin Peaks Volume II!  I have really enjoyed listening to the CD as
I'm sure many of you have and I would like to see a new release from this past
season.  Both Lynch and Badalamenti have injected great music in this season
and IMHP it would sell just as many as the previous CD.  In addition the cast
photos could be updated as well!

All the best to you as I try to find something worth watching on TV now that
^Twin Peaks^ is gone (for now) besides the episodes I taped!!



Don Kasprzak
University of Toledo

In article <240@eclectic.COM>, justice@eclectic.COM (Hilary K. Justice) writes:
# Did anyone else notice a similarity between the chairs in
# the "waiting room" and the ones that were knocked around
# by the flood of blood from the elevators in _The Shining_?

I think Lynch has a phobia of old 1930-era furniture.  _Eraserhead_,
_Blue Velvet_, _The Shining_, and _Wild at Heart_ all feature cruddy 
furniture.

-- Brian Ross. Diet Coke rules. bjr@aipna.ed.ac.uk

Hi,

I was wondering if any of you could have ideas on the following.

Most seem to believe that the Black Lodge is a 'place', 'universe', 'dimention'
etc. occupied by evil spirits, dopplegangers and general bad guys. I was 
puzzled then by the presence of Maddy and more importantly the Giant/Droolcup
whom had seemed, by his actions, to belong to the White Lodge.

Any ideas?

Steve.

The final episode of the current series of T.P. was shown on BBC 2 in the
U.K.  last Tuesday. I'd like to know if the rumour I have heard that the last
episode in the U.S. was a two hour marathon is true. If so that explains why
there were odd threads left dangling in the fifty minute finale we were
presented with. My impression was that it had been hacked dowb to wrap up
the series in one showing.

--

I give Catherine a lot of credit.  I believe that Thomas is still alive and
he conspired with Catherine to kill Andrew once and for all.  This would
explain why she "permitted" Andrew to take the key to the bank.  This
woman rarely misses a trick, and I found almost unbelievable that Andrew
could outsmart her.  This would also explain why Thomas would be certain
that it was Andrew that finally opened the safe deposit box.

Comments?


                                          Clay Speicher
                                          speicher@mwunix.mitre.org

In article <1991Jun18.120228.1051@bsu-ucs.uucp>, 01dbjohns@bsu-ucs.uucp writes:
> > Did I miss something, or did they not clearly explain the markings on the
> > Major's neck?  Where exactly did they come from?  Why did the Major disappear,
> > and where did he go?  Why did he come back in the old flight suit?
> > 
> > Someone either post the answers, or write back directly to me.
> > 
> > Dan

We don't know exactly.  There has only been speculation.

--Cool Bean
-- **This is not cultural.

I think it unlikely that anyone escaped the vault area for the following
reason(s):

Catherine could not have known WHEN her targets would have been in the vault,
so the triggering device had to have been rigged to go with the opening of the
safety deposit box outer door to get her intended victims.

To have any guarantee of a lethal effect the bomb would have to have been
triggered to detonate only after the outer door of the safety deposit box was
opened.  So again a timing device, allowing escape was unlikely.

Unless of course BOB was the one who actually planted the bomb....Then all
bets are OFF!



open
                             Mostly THE BEAR

aka MXL4@PSUVM <Mark Lafer>                   ()      ()
                                                 o . o
Not a By-product of Any Technology!               xxx

In article <91169.164114ICNEW@ASUACAD.BITNET> ICNEW@ASUACAD.BITNET writes:
> >Dopplegangers are associated with doulbes (of people). They are considered
> >to be mischievous beings interested in promoting chaos. In Christopher
> >Stashev's (<-- ? spelling) "Warlock Series" the method for getting rid of a
> >doppleganger is provided. ie. Turn your coat, and whistle... which translates
> > to put your clothes on insideout and whistle a tune.... 

What you have described is the traditional method for finding your way out of
the fairies.  When you're in the fairies, you become disoriented even if you're
very familiar with your surroundings.  It is said that time goes backwards for
people who are in the fairies.  Fairies are mischevious beings, often malicious,
who may or may not be visible, and when seen are often small in stature.
     People who have been in the fairies often disappear (and are sometimes
replaced by a look-alike fairy), only to reappear later (when the double is
destroyed), having memories of being in a strange place.  Their memories are 
often confused with what happened to their fairy doppleganger.

     Any of this sound familiar?  This is Newfoundland (and I assume Irish
before that) mythology.  I heard a docu on it on CBC a couple of weeks ago,
including interviews with several Newfies who had actually been in the fairies.
One of them described being followed up a hill by little men in suits, and 
when he turned his cap inside out and backwards, they disappeared one by one....

_______
Stephen M. Webbb
"Wow Bob wow"

In article <91170.200524KRK4@psuvm.psu.edu> KRK4@psuvm.psu.edu writes:

> > Have I missed it or did nobody mention the chessboard image on the floor of
> > the stage in the Miss Twin Peaks Pageant?  With Annie looking like a white 
> > queen (i.e. Windom's queen)?

Wow Bob Wow.  How about the fact they were all dancing wrapped in
clear plastic (raincoats)?

In article <91171.155916KJA102@psuvm.psu.edu>, <KJA102@psuvm.psu.edu> says:
> >Referring to the palindrome, Wow,Bob,Wow:
> >As I remember, the dwarf said this just before Cooper started running into the
> >doppelgangers.  There was no doppelganger of Bob, however.  Could the dwarf's
> >palindrome have some sort of reference to the 2 lodges, each a mirror image of
> >the other, with Bob in between?  Bob may be more significant than just a
> >denizen of the black lodge.  After all, he took WE`s soul.
> >
> >Comments?  Theories?

I think Lynch was playing a mind-game joke with us.  The dream speech is done
by having the actors speak their lines backwards, then playing the tape in
reverse.  Folks figured that out a long time ago.  Now here the LMFAP has
a dream speech line, which reads the SAME backwards and forwards.  For *once*
he just read the line normally.  In reverse, it sounds weird, but the same
words.  8-)

***************************************************************************
Dave Whitman                   "The idea is to die young, as late as possible."
rsndww@rohvm1.bitnet           -Ashley Montague
***************************************************************************

ABienek@acorn.co.uk (Alex Bienek) writes:
> >some such. This way he could have moved toward a more consistant conclusion rather
> >than having to constantly create new threads and hence dilute the initial idea.

One of the major themes of the series was how things are composed
of two parts, one of which is the opposite in some sense of the
other.

This theme was carried through the whole series.

> >I was rather dissapointed. I expected much better things. The whole scene in the
> >black/white lodge was a complete anti-climax I thought. After months of building

I thought it was a brilliantly done tying together of all the
different threads, hints and clues we have been presented with
since the first episode.

> >I maintain that had David Lynch had the complete story in mind when he started
> >writing we would have been spared this damp squib ending !

He must have had a number of key points in mind leading up
to the ending which he insisted on being included in the
earlier stories. If he hadn't, everything wouldn't have
fitted so neatly into place.

Watch the last episode again and remember
That everything contains its opposite.
That BOB is fire.
Hawk's description of the lodges.
What the Major is most afraid of.
The Log Lady's husband, and how he died.
And of course, why the traffic lights are there, and why Dr.
Jacoby wears those glasses.
Bob.

I'd like a copy, too.

                                 Half a bee       | But half a bee
    Jim Thomas                   Philosophically  | Has got to be
   Penn State Univ.              Must ipso facto  | Vis a Vis it's entity
                                 Half not be      | You see?

alternat@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Ann Hodgins) writes:
> >The burnt engine oil is puzzling. If it is really engine oil, then what does
> >that imply?  Did the black lodge begin with a car crash, a ufo crash?

If you burn oil you get a fire. Look at what is centre of
the petroglyph. And on the wall that was where the
petroglyph is. And surrounding the keystone WE turned to
reveal the petroglyph. etc.
Bob.

sminkin@bbn.com (Scott Minkin) writes:
> >This may already have been mentioned, but in the final episode of The Prisoner,
> >"Fall Out", the hero (#6) meet his own evil doppleganger (#1).

Not exactly the same sort of meeting. #1 was just the person
in charge who made everything happen. Patrick McGoohan was
also the writer and director as well as being #6.
So it was more of actor meets director who also happens to
be himself rather that the classic hero meets doppelganger.
Bob.

Everything pointing at Catherine is merely circumstantial.  Why couldn't
Eckhart have just left the box/bomb setup around "in case of his death"?  Why  
would Catherine have gone through the trouble of having Eckhart's assistant  
bring the box to her?  How would she have gotten Eckhart's assistants  
complicity?  

-------------------------------------------------------------
Howie Kaye                              howie@columbia.edu
Columbia University                     hlkcu@cuvma.bitnet
UNIX Systems Group                      ...!rutgers!columbia!howie

In article <BARB.91Jun20152334@chamarti.ai.mit.edu> barb@zurich.ai.mit.edu writes:
> >
> >In article <91170.200524KRK4@psuvm.psu.edu> KRK4@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
> >
>> >>  Seriously, I was pretty terrified, particularly of Laura!
> > 
> >Am I the only person who found Laura's screaming decidedly NOT scary?
 
I was completely terrified and haunted by her "death in the train car"
scene in a previous episode  but quite unmoved by her in the lodge
screaming for no reason at all. It seemed silly.
 
Maybe if it had been filmed differently....
 
a.h.

In article <1278@sys.uea.ac.uk> swc@sys.uea.ac.uk (S.W. Cox CMP Staff) writes:
> >Most seem to believe that the Black Lodge is a 'place', 'universe', 'dimention'
> >etc. occupied by evil spirits, dopplegangers and general bad guys. I was 
> >puzzled then by the presence of Maddy and more importantly the Giant/Droolcup
> >whom had seemed, by his actions, to belong to the White Lodge.
> >
> >Any ideas?

Okay, here we go.

I saw the whole thing as a representation of the afterlife.  The
dwarf says, "the next time you see me, it won't be me", and that is
followed by the giant/droolcup sitting next to the dwarf, "one and
the same".  In that sense, I saw the giant/Droolcup/dwarf being a
sort of trinity.  Bob, therefore, is either the Devil himself, or a
servant thereof.  At any rate, the dwarf refers to the place as "the
waiting room", which looks to me to be like some kind of limbo,
where a person's good and evil sides battle it out.  All of the
people Cooper saw in this limbo were dead (except Annie, who kept
phasing in and out, as if she were dying, but not quite).  The only
real problem with all of this is that it doesn't help explain *at
all* what happened the first time in the red curtained room.

Well, my brother thought it was a neat interpretation, even if it
doesn't hold water.

Jim Berninger                     | "This is no 'Whoops!'  This is an
Green Lantern Fan, Extraordinaire | Aaaaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuuggggggghhhh!"
B0 w- c- g+ k s- e h r- p         |    - Harvey ("Arnold") Fierstein
berninge@cn.ecn.purdue.edu        |      "Torch Song Trilogy"

In article <1991Jun19.153907.1161@tsltor.uucp> stevew@raven.uucp (Stephen Webb) writes:
> >In article <B6eN41w163w@zitt> joe@zitt (Joe Zitt) writes:
>> >>
>> >>Josie is now the Black Lodge coat check girl. And we didn't
>> >>get to see the Legendary Jimmy Whatever's backing band: The
>> >>Renault Brothers!
>> >>
> >
> >Hasn't anyone yet realized that the Lounge Lizard was the Log Lady's husband?
> >
> >_______
> >Stephen M. Webb
> >"Wow Bob wow!"

You know...
Leland bashed his head in.
Cooper tries bashing his head in.
Could it be that Bob is just a big headache to have around?

In article <1991Jun20.181308.6505@gdt.bath.ac.uk> ch0mpc@gdt.bath.ac.uk (M P CLIFTON) writes:
> >   I've been reading this thread for some time. The only _external_
> >building damage seen was the blown-out windows. Now, there were _no_
> >windows within the vault area, so two rather inconsistent assumptions arise:
> >
> >      1) The blast was so fierce that it blew out windows in another room,
> >         or even perhaps another floor. This seems to indicate that no-one
> >         could really have survived.

Gee, why should we even assume that the windows we saw blow out were part
of the bank at all?  After all, we never SAW the bank beforehand and I
don't remember whether or not there was a visible sign in the front of
the building saying that it WAS the bank (so there could be an even worse
continuity problem under these assumptions...)













Margaret E. H. Hudacko
margaret@ecebucolix.ncsu.edu
"How's Annie?....oh, she's OK, just a mild case of Frost bite..."

In article <1991Jun20.183926.7770@gdt.bath.ac.uk> ch0mpc@gdt.bath.ac.uk (M P CLIFTON) writes:
> >In article <0094A5F7.3C8177C0@vax.nott.ac.uk> cczads@vax.nott.ac.uk (Drew Shearsmith) writes:
> >
>> >>I reckon if it had been a BBC tv production we would now be looking forward
>> >>to a third series.
> >
> >   Are you _joking_? Have you _seen_ Doctor Who recently...? No?...Exactly.

Hmmmmm....if TP followed the pattern of Dr. Who, we WOULD be looking forward
to the next season since Dr. Who's third and fourth regenerations seem
to be the most popular (read: best IMHO).....


Margaret E. H. Hudacko
margaret@ecebucolix.ncsu.edu
"How's Annie?....oh, she's OK, just a mild case of Frost bite..."

In article <1991Jun21.160037.29358@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, howie@ivory.cc.columbia.edu (Howie Kaye) writes:
> > Why couldn't
> > Eckhart have just left the box/bomb setup around "in case of his death"?

With a note that said "Got you, Andrew" -- addressed to a person he didn't even
know was alive until about a half hour before his own death?
-- cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet...

In article <1991Jun20.181308.6505@gdt.bath.ac.uk>, ch0mpc@gdt.bath.ac.uk (M P CLIFTON) writes:
> >       1) The blast shown occured _later_ than it appeared ie there was a
> >          considerably longer time between the discovery of the bomb and
> >          the explosion

But we see the bomb flash light up Andrew and Pete's faces...
-- cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet...

TP Gazette subscribers just received a notice from the Gazette
saying that there will be a movie or telivision special, and
that the Gazette will change its publication period to coincide
with the new production. They also expressed their thanks from
Lynch/Frost productions for all the supportive letters, and
said it's too bad TP won't be a weekly series anymore, but following
Albert's advice, "Let a smile be your umbrella!"

Darragh
dawn@netcom.COM

I was out of town and unable to watch the final episode live (which
was the *only* episode I didn't watch live), but had my wife record it
for me.  Imagine my horror when I stuck in the tape, hit play, and
discovered that the damned VCR was broken and hadn't recorded the
sound.

Arrghh!

My wife offered to narrate, but I'm hoping someone here'll be able to
come through for me.  I'm desparate, so I'm willing to do almost
anything to get a copy.  I'll happily pay postage and either return
the tape or buy it outright.

-- Dave Sill (de5@ornl.gov) Tug on anything in nature and you will find Martin Marietta Energy Systems it connected to everything else. Workstation Support --John Muir

In article <1991Jun20.183124.7288@gdt.bath.ac.uk>, ch0mpc@gdt.bath.ac.uk (M P CLIFTON) writes:
> >   Now, here's my point. Is it pure coincidence that there are _two_ pairs
> > of Mike/Bob ? Could Mike Scott/Mike the Spirit and Bobby Briggs/Bob
> > have more in common than just their names?

The pedestrian answer is that there are two pairs of Mikes and Bobs because Lynch
wanted to keep us guessing over the first season every time the name "Mike" or
"Bob" came up in conjunction with who killed Laura Palmer.  The far-fetched answer
is that the old Mike and Bob are the young Mike and Bob years "later" after a stay
in the Black Lodge (where some think time runs backwards) when they re-entered the
world both older and earlier.  However, there are problems with this.  We know there
are neat eye-color effects in the Black Lodge, but hair color effects still seem to
be out of their league...
-- cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet...

In article <10340037@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM>, brian@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Wood) writes:
> > Not meaning to sound proud or anything, but did you read my recent posting
> > where I bring up this point of time flowing backwards? ...  Although
> > they haven't observed the killing of Laura Palmer...

Anyone ever catch David Lynch`s cameo in Dune?

Scott

In article <11228@castle.ed.ac.uk>, bob@castle.ed.ac.uk (Bob Gray) writes:
> > And surrounding the keystone WE turned to
> > reveal the petroglyph. etc.

Whoa, you just jogged my memory.  According to what I remember, the petroglyph
was there in plain sight when Coop went to the cave.  Andy chewed a hole in the
wall with a pick, and we never found out what was in it.  Then WE came in, rotated
a shaft, and the wall started rumbling, and we never found out what THAT was about,
either.  Did we?
-- cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet...

HEY! Can I jump on this bandwagon too? I want one...
Thanks...

"12 rainbow trout"

The engine oil is one of the few elements of the BOB/Black Lodge storyline that
has, IMHO, remained consistant throughout the series. In the 2007 episode, just
before Maddy discovers who BOB is, she says "it smell's like something's
burning!" I didn't understand this at the time, or connect it with the
"scorched engine oil" Jacoby smelled until I saw 2022 and thought about it for
awhile. some netters who were once comic-book fans may recall the Marvel 
character Nightcrawler, who could teleport from place to place and who left
behind a sulfur trail. My theory is that BOB can jump in and out of his host's 
body by using the oil somehow (perhaps it is the anti-substance to MIKE's 
Haloperidol) when he can't use fear.This would mean that BOB has some "down time" in which he isn't in
the host but stays close (i.e. Sarah Palmer's and Maddy's visions -maybe he was 
"staking" out his next victim). This might explain why the LMFAP appeared with
 BOB after Josie died -he was just around for the ride, as it were. My 
question is, where does one go when BOB has taken over? They could just black 
out, but to my mind they go somewhere else... ...perhaps the WAITING ROOM? That 
would explain what SDC was doing in the Red Room -maybe the Giant was in SDC's 
body when SDC was there. Actually, I'm not 100% behind this theory, but I am 
pretty sure that the engine oil allows BOB go into a body.

Dave Platt
Winnipeg,
Manitoba,
Canada,
"Secrets are dangerous things, Audrey" -Dale Cooper

I don't think there's been nearly enough debate about what the
Major said, so here goes with  an attempt to start some...

I was extremely puzzled by the line (I don't have my tape with
me and don't want to start another set of misquotes) about "the 
King of Romania" not being able to attend. It took me awhile to
realize that Romania doesn't have a king! Yet according to the
encyclopedia, the last king of Romania before the communists took
over was named Michael! A reference to MIKE, maybe? Surely the Major
would know about him, and it's possible that the Haloperidol caused 
him to say it in this strange way.

Another clue to the saving of Cooper?

Dave Platt
Winnipeg,
Manitoba,
Canada
"Secrets are dangerous things, Audrey." -Dale Cooper


I don't think there's been nearly enough debate about what the
Major said, so here goes with  an attempt to start some...

I was extremely puzzled by the line (I don't have my tape with
me and don't want to start another set of misquotes) about "the 
King of Romania" not being able to attend. It took me awhile to
realize that Romania doesn't have a king! Yet according to the
encyclopedia, the last king of Romania before the communists took
over was named Michael! A reference to MIKE, maybe? Surely the Major
would know about him, and it's possible that the Haloperidol caused 
him to say it in this strange way.

Another clue to the saving of Cooper?

Dave Platt
Winnipeg,
Manitoba,
Canada
"Secrets are dangerous things, Audrey." -Dale Cooper

> >Does anyone realize they weren't talking really talking backwards in the B/W
lodges?  It was just altered.  If you listen you can make out the words
plainly... sans sub-titles

Of course, one of the best sound-eiting jobs i've ever heard..right up there
with Art of Noise.

`I really have to urinate.'  Coop

   Who remembers when Annie went to the convent (about 5 years ago?).  I
ask because if it was the same time that caroline was killed this
scenario could have taken place:  What if the scars on Annie's wrist
were the marks of a successful suicide attempt?  Annie may have been an
empty vessel and if Caroline was being killed her spirit may have
entered Annie.  Annie/Caroline may have gone to the convent to wait for
the right time (a conjunction, perhaps?) to enter Coops life.

My timing may be off, can someone verify the timing of caroline's death
and annie's disapearing into the convent?




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
MJ Swede
CMU graduate program in the biological sciences

"If I have seen farther, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants"

"Standing on the shoulders of giants leaves me cold/I want a main idea
to call my own."

In article <speicher.677509422@mwunix.mitre.org> speicher@mwunix.mitre.org
(Clay Speicher) writes:
> >
> >I give Catherine a lot of credit.  I believe that Thomas is still alive and
> >he conspired with Catherine to kill Andrew once and for all.  This would
> >explain why she "permitted" Andrew to take the key to the bank.  This
> >woman rarely misses a trick, and I found almost unbelievable that Andrew
> >could outsmart her.  This would also explain why Thomas would be certain
> >that it was Andrew that finally opened the safe deposit box.
> >
> >Comments?
> >
> >
> >                                          Clay Speicher

I think you are right about Catherine letting him get the key.  It is also
possible that the uxorious Pete didn't catch him by accident, but was put on
watch by Catherine to make sure that if it wasn't a trap, he would protect her
interests. If it was a trap, then she was rid of both of them, giving her soul
ownership of the Mill and the development. I don't know about her being in a
conspiracy with Ekhardt, though. She just might have assumed that this gift
would be a trojan horse, given Ekhardt's personality and past history and acted
accordingly.

-Rich Haller

In article <1991Jun20.120803@aifh.ed.ac.uk> bjr@aifh.ed.ac.uk (Brian J Ross)
writes:
> >In article <1991Jun19.211549.1066@bsu-ucs.uucp>, 01dbjohns@bsu-ucs.uucp
writes:
> ># Does anyone realize that they weren't really talking backwards in the
> ># B/W lodges?  It was just altered.  If you listen, you can make out the
> ># words plainly... sans sub-titles.
> >
> >They recorded the scenes with everyone pronouncing forward-sentences
> >backwards, so that when the scene is played in reverse, the sentences
> >are forward-sounding.  For example, videotape yourself saying the
> >word "Oh Leh", and when you play it in reverse, you're saying "hello"
> >albeit strangely.  Weird effect -- thanks David Lynch!

I was particularly struck by how understandable BOB was. I figure he must have
worked particularly hard on getting it right because he wasn't a 'real actor'.

> >Now, would someone kindly explain the meaning of the last episode to me?
> >

I'm working on it.

> >-- 
> >Brian Ross.                                             Diet Pepsi rules.

-Rich Haller

In article <1991Jun11.223430.11800@risky.ecs.umass.edu> giovin@medr0.ecs.umass.edu (Rocky J Giovinazzo) writes:
}In article <13009@uwm.edu> gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu writes:
}>
}>> Has anyone sorted out what was in each place (there are 3 rooms right?
}>> Waiting room, and two others?)  Perhaps if we break down what was
}>
}>I think maybe there were just the two rooms, that just kept changing
}>their inhabitants...  based on who was inside or what they wanted him
}>to see or something...
}
}It could be that the order of the rooms and who is the rooms when is 
}related to what Cooper said about the gateway to the lodges.  The
}gateway appears at a certain time at a certain place-- similar to the
}path of a falling star over time from the point of view of the falling
}star.  In other words, the contents of the rooms depended on points in
}time.  For instance, Maddy appeared in a room for some period of time
}and then began to vanish.  

I think there are an infinite number of rooms.  Remember that when Coop was
trying to escape he went through the rooms in reverse order, and I believe
he went out through the same number of rooms he came in.  All the rooms
are identical, except for presence/lack of furniture and relative power
of good/evil (White/Black) influence -- although both of these could just be
canards.

Also, everyone seemed to have a doppelgaenger except for the Giant and Bob
(at least I don't remember a Giant double).  This may indicate that the Giant
is all good and Bob all evil.

Also, I don't believe, as someone else suggested, that WE needed Annie to
enter the Lodge -- I believe he thought that she would be proof of his
evilness and win him power, but of course WE didn't know diddley.  I think
WE getting Annie into the Lodge was all part of Bob's plot to get Coop to
enter so he could substitute Coop's doppel (yes, I think the "good" Coop
is trapped in the Lodge).  I *do* think Coop is slated to "win" in the
end (twenty-five years in the future) -- although I'm not sure exactly
what "winning" entails - perhaps wresting control of his body back from
the doppel (and Bob).

-Pete Zakel
 (phz@cadence.com or ..!uunet!cadence!phz)

In article <6257@lectroid.sw.stratus.com>,
 cdt@sw.stratus.com (Chris Tavares) writes:
   In article <1991Jun21.160037.29358@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, 
   howie@ivory.cc.columbia.edu (Howie Kaye) writes:
   > Why couldn't
   > Eckhart have just left the box/bomb setup around "in case of his death"?

   With a note that said "Got you, Andrew" -- addressed to a person he didn't 
   even know was alive until about a half hour before his own death?

That bomb could have been planted years ago, when Eckhart and Andrew
first got mad at each other.  

My whole interpretation of this whole thing was that Eckhart planted
the bomb with the intent of killing Andrew.  To make sure that Andrew
would find it, he hides it inside 3 (or was it 4?) puzzle boxes.
Gotta admire a mind bent on revenge like that one.

--
David G. PaschichOpen Computing FacilityUC Berkeley
dpassage@ocf.berkeley.edu
"Can Spam increase sexual potency?  `No!' say scientists!" -- Trygve Lode

In article <1991Jun21.190259.1680@ncsu.edu>, 
margaret@ecebucolix.ncsu.edu (Margaret Hudacko) writes:

   In article <1991Jun20.183926.7770@gdt.bath.ac.uk> ch0mpc@gdt.bath.ac.uk (M P CLIFTON) writes:
   >In article <0094A5F7.3C8177C0@vax.nott.ac.uk> cczads@vax.nott.ac.uk (Drew Shearsmith) writes:
   >
   >>I reckon if it had been a BBC tv production we would now be looking
   >>forward to a third series.
   >
   >   Are you _joking_? Have you _seen_ Doctor Who recently...? No?...Exactly.

   Hmmmmm....if TP followed the pattern of Dr. Who, we WOULD be looking forward
   to the next season since Dr. Who's third and fourth regenerations seem
   to be the most popular (read: best IMHO).....

And another 22 or 23 more.  Although I doubt Lynch would be able to
keep it boing that long without things like Daleks and Cybermen to
fall back on when the writing gets REALLY bad.


--
David G. PaschichOpen Computing FacilityUC Berkeley
dpassage@ocf.berkeley.edu
"Can Spam increase sexual potency?  `No!' say scientists!" -- Trygve Lode

In article <6257@lectroid.sw.stratus.com>, cdt@sw.stratus.com (Chris
Tavares) writes:
|> In article <1991Jun21.160037.29358@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>,
howie@ivory.cc.columbia.edu (Howie Kaye) writes:
|> > Why couldn't
|> > Eckhart have just left the box/bomb setup around "in case of his death"?
|> 
|> With a note that said "Got you, Andrew" -- addressed to a person he
didn't even
|> know was alive until about a half hour before his own death?

Mr. Eckhart's assistant, Jones, delivered the key. Perhaps she
also placed the bomb and note.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Cole  (steve@hanauma.stanford.edu, apple!hanauma!steve)
Department of Geophysics, Stanford University, Stanford, CA 94305

One thought on the engine oil...didn't the coffee that Coop spilled from
his cup (the viscous fluid) in the waiting room have the look and feel of
that oil? Very strong coffee!

ms5h+@andrew.cmu.edu (Marci Swede) writes:

> > 
> >    Who remembers when Annie went to the convent (about 5 years ago?).  I
> > ask because if it was the same time that caroline was killed this
> > scenario could have taken place:  What if the scars on Annie's wrist
> > were the marks of a successful suicide attempt?  Annie may have been an
> > empty vessel and if Caroline was being killed her spirit may have
> > entered Annie.  Annie/Caroline may have gone to the convent to wait for
> > the right time (a conjunction, perhaps?) to enter Coops life.
> > 
> > My timing may be off, can someone verify the timing of caroline's death
> > and annie's disapearing into the convent?

Caroline, according to Cooper's bio, died about 1980. Spoils your theory 
- sorry.

**************************************************************************
"I especially hate guidance counselors.                       Demosthenes
If they knew ANYTHING about career moves,              18004 146th Ave NE 
Would they have ended up as guidance                Woodinville, WA 98072 
counselors?"                                                (206)487-1312 
   - Happy Harry Hard-On, PUMP UP THE VOLUME        Compulsive Polemicist
                                       (with apologies to Bruce Sterling) 
**************************************************************************

In article <1991Jun21.115103.13003@pbs.org> mpax@pbs.org (Cool Bean) writes:
> >In article <1991Jun19.052300.17954@odin.corp.sgi.com>, sjohnson@texas.vlsi.sgi.com (Scott Johnson) writes:
>> >> In <50700@ut-emx.uucp> osmigo@ut-emx.uucp (Ron Morgan) writes:
>> >> 
>>>>> >>>>>1.  ...So there you are, in the Black Lodge, with your trusty FBI-issue
>>>>> >>>>>    Smith & Wesson Model 1076 10mm pistol at your side
>> >> 
     [and others have wondered why Cooper was so passive in the Red Rooms]

It was Dale Cooper's nature to be an observer rather than a participant.
The autobiography drives this home repeatedly, but it's also evident from
the show.  His love of observation certainly takes him into a lot of
strange and interesting situations, but he is ultimately there as the
passive viewer.  The one motivation that seems to kick him into genuine
action is a head to head confrontation with known evil.  I suppose you
could say that the evil in the Red Rooms should have spurred him to
greater action, but the nature of the evil and all of the experiences
in the Red Rooms (not all of it was evil) was unknown to Dale.  And while
those experiences would have been totally disorienting to most mortals,
Dale lapsed into his observe-it-for-all-it's-worth mode, and probably
dealt with it better than almost anyone else could have.

At least that's my take on Dale's personality and the nature of his
actions (or lack thereof) in the Lodge waiting rooms.
-- -larryy@apple.com "You wouldn't recognize a *subtle plan* if it painted itself purple, and danced naked upon a harpsichord, singing, 'Subtle Plans are Here Again'." - Edmund Blackadder

reckless cut-and-paste:


   >Look. It's very simple. When they 'rehearsed' their lines, they were
> >recorded, and then played backwards. The cast then attempted to speak these
> >'backward' lines (which would sound pretty garbled.) Their attempts would
> >be recorded and _then_ played backwards, which would sound like they were
> >spoken forwards. Geddit? That's why they sound weird. This could also be
> >taken to be the method by which the _movement_ was done ; the characters
> >_walked_ backwards, and this action was _transmitted_ backwards, which
> >is why their movement is so stilted too.

I'm not sure that's how they did it, but there's a lot of evidence in the
final scenes that time *is* going backwards. Notice how Laura deliberately
snapped her fingers backwards, for example. The most outstanding event in this
regard is when Windom Earle "stabs" Coop with that thingie. Coop falls to the
floor, then suddenly we see that *exact* same event in reverse! He "falls"
"up" to the knife (or whatever it is). Does this signify a point when time
made a U-turn of some sort?

I find it very, very difficult to believe that all this is just for "special
visual effect." I'm not sure what is *is* for, though, with regard to the
plot line.

Ron Morgan
osmigo@emx.utexas.edu

> >I rewatched the last episode, and the voice that Sarah Palmer
> >speaks says "I'm in the black lodge with Agent Cooper."

The "voice that Sarah Palmer speaks" was that of Windom Earle.

Ron Morgan
osmigo@emx.utexas.edu

In article <1278@sys.uea.ac.uk> swc@sys.uea.ac.uk (S.W. Cox CMP Staff) writes:
> >
> >I was wondering if any of you could have ideas on the following.
> >
> >Most seem to believe that the Black Lodge is a 'place', 'universe', 'dimention'
> >etc. occupied by evil spirits, dopplegangers and general bad guys. I was 
> >puzzled then by the presence of Maddy and more importantly the Giant/Droolcup
> >whom had seemed, by his actions, to belong to the White Lodge.

The amiguity of the Black Lodge concept gives it a much wider possible
meaning than a single interpretation, but, for what it's worth, I base
my interpretation on the concept of it being a place where the "Dream
Soul" meets its dark opposite.  My guess is that the Black Lodge
appears different to each person who enters it, and that the beings
that he or she meets there are those who have a special significance
in the person's life and are particularly close to whatever it is that
characterizes the person's "dark side".  Those people may not be in
the Black Lodge at all; it may just be that, upon entering the Lodge,
the nearness to the dark side of oneself causes leftover fears,
regrets, hatreds, etc., to take concrete form as people.

I haven't thought this through in detail, but assuming that Cooper is
about to have to confront his worst fear about himself, what might
that fear be and how would these people be related to it?  I think he
sees his conscious mission in life to protect the innocent people from
the evil that seems to consume so many of them.  He is so invested in
this mission that his worst fears would have to be:

1) He is incapable of stopping evil, either because it is simply too
strong, or because he isn't smart enough or capable enough;

2) The innocent are not really innocent;

3) He is capable of doing these evil things himself;

4) The mission itself is flawed, i.e. truly smart people take the side
of evil, only fools try to be good.

In addition, he is probably afraid that he acts as a sort of jinx to
women that he cares about.  (Some of this analysis comes from reading
his autobiography.)

Maddy and Caroline are strong symbols of his past failure.  Bob is a
symbol of the power of evil, Leland saying he didn't kill anybody
could show some unconscious doubt that Cooper might have that he
identified the wrong killer.  The Laura who screams in his face could
stem from a fear that the innocent are not really innocent.  Windom
Earle shows how very intelligent the side of evil can be.  And the
presence of the Giant and Dwarf could taunt him with the sense that
information is being given to him but he is incapable of figuring out
what it means in time.  In Annie he could see his hope for future
happiness mingled with the dread that by letting himself get close to
her, he will cause her death and bring on the pain of loss once again.
Thus, the doppelganger concept could have one single being, i.e.
Cooper's dark side, or his deep fear, taking all these different
forms.

If I can risk further interpretation along these lines, it seems that
he faces a number of these fears reasonably well (although the willingness
to give up his soul to let Annie live may or may not be the best way
to handle the fear tied up in her) but when the doppelganger takes the form of
himself (which I would take to be his fear that he himself is capable
of committing the evil he is trying to fight), that fear consumes and
overcomes him.  He awakens from his dream possessed by that fear, and
so of course he sees Bob when he looks in the mirror, and it appears
for now anyway that he will be driven to act out that fear. 

This doesn't necessarily mean that the Black Lodge is not an actual
place, or that people can't be seen to disappear into it.  I just am
inclined to believe that its appearance and what goes on there is very
much affected by the psyche of the individual dream soul.  For Cooper,
who is so intensely conscious of hidden evil, it makes sense that the
Black Lodge decor would be curtains the color of blood and fire,
which could be hiding anything at all, since one of the scariest
aspects of the evil he tries to fight is that it can stay hidden for
so long, until it suddenly and unexpectedly strikes.

Barb Miller

In <1991Jun21.185843.1475@ncsu.edu> margaret@ecebucolix.ncsu.edu (Margaret Hudacko) writes:

> >In article <1991Jun20.181308.6505@gdt.bath.ac.uk> ch0mpc@gdt.bath.ac.uk (M P CLIFTON) writes:
>> >>   I've been reading this thread for some time. The only _external_
>> >>building damage seen was the blown-out windows. Now, there were _no_
>> >>windows within the vault area, so two rather inconsistent assumptions arise:
>> >>
>> >>      1) The blast was so fierce that it blew out windows in another room,
>> >>         or even perhaps another floor. This seems to indicate that no-one
>> >>         could really have survived.

> >Gee, why should we even assume that the windows we saw blow out were part
> >of the bank at all?  After all, we never SAW the bank beforehand and I
> >don't remember whether or not there was a visible sign in the front of
> >the building saying that it WAS the bank (so there could be an even worse
> >continuity problem under these assumptions...)

Hey, why don't we just drop this line of debate for the possibilty
(I know it's stretching) that these things were used as ARTISTIC 
LISCENSE in an attempt to PROVE A POINT that there was some kind of
damage here. (that is all that is known).  Maybe we could get on
to arguing about some more interesting things, like the species
of Mr. Log Lady, or SDC's favorite brand of coffee.  :-/ :-\

Sheesh.

sj

In <1991Jun21.192214.11771@netcom.COM> dawn@netcom.COM (Darragh Nagle) writes:


> >TP Gazette subscribers just received a notice from the Gazette
> >saying that there will be a movie or telivision special, and
> >that the Gazette will change its publication period to coincide
> >with the new production. They also expressed their thanks from
> >Lynch/Frost productions for all the supportive letters, and
> >said it's too bad TP won't be a weekly series anymore, but following
> >Albert's advice, "Let a smile be your umbrella!"

Sorry Mr. Gazette editor, but Gordon said that one.

sj

 sjohnson@texas.vlsi.sgi.com (Scott Johnson) writes:

>> >>TP Gazette subscribers just received a notice from the Gazette
>> >>saying that there will be a movie or telivision special, and
>> >>that the Gazette will change its publication period to coincide
>> >>with the new production. They also expressed their thanks from
>> >>Lynch/Frost productions for all the supportive letters, and
>> >>said it's too bad TP won't be a weekly series anymore, but following
>> >>Albert's advice, "Let a smile be your umbrella!"
> >
> >Sorry Mr. Gazette editor, but Gordon said that one.
> >
> >sj

   I stand corrected, it was my typo, not the Gazette's.

Darragh
dawn@netcom.COM

SML108@psuvm.psu.edu (Scott the Great) writes:

> >Anyone ever catch David Lynch`s cameo in Dune?

"COOP! WE CAN'T LEAVE ALL THIS SPICE BEHIND, COOP!"


===============================================================================
    :: :: :: :: ::      Synth           synth@yenta.alb.nm.us   "Come on,
 :: :: :: :: :: :: ::   (F. Oberheim)   synth@euler.unm.edu        Concord!"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Fire your boss! Get out of the rat race forever. Call 24hr msg (505) 764-0621
===============================================================================
"I don't care if you drive through a mountain in Texas; this is New Jersey,
 and when you play my joint you're just another act ... I want some *music*
 outta you characters ..."

I just had a kind of wierd thought: Somebody out there has a theory of
the BL/WL going backwards in time, and I was wondering. Perhaps the Red
Curtains refer to a Doppler red-shift. I forget, is that getting closer,
or getting farther away? Regardless, perhaps someone who knows about this
sort of thing could elaborate?
-- -- John Hawkinson jhawk@panix.com

In article <okuP45w164w@halcyon.uucp> hikaru@halcyon writes:
> >I guess we now know that Cooper is damned, not gifted....
> >

And the converse is true for Major Briggs...



-- Bill Downing, President Email: bdowning@unixland.natick.ma.usDOWNING ASSOCIATES, INC. 68 Washington St, Natick, MA 01760 508-655-3040

In article <1991Jun22.024128.14132@risky.ecs.umass.edu> giovin@medr0.ecs.umass.edu (Rocky J Giovinazzo) writes:

> >In article <50991@ut-emx.uucp> osmigo@ut-emx.uucp (Ron Morgan) writes:

>> >>The "voice that Sarah Palmer speaks" was that of Windom Earle.

> >What makes you so sure? 

Well, Rocky. I'm hearing impaired. Not deaf, just hard of hearing enough that
I need to use a Closed Caption Decoder to understand most of what's said on
a TV. Twin Peaks did have closed captions.

The people who actually type in the captions do so from a printed script of
the show as part of the original video recording process. Sometimes when a
character speaks, his/her voice will have an unusual aspect, and this will be
noted on the captions, as "gasping" is used below, for example:

(gasping)"We've got to get out of here"

In this case, it said:

(voice of Windom Earle)"I'm with Laura in the Black Lodge."

That's where I'm coming from with my statement that Sarah's voice was that
of Windom Earle's.

One advantage of this is that I get (i.e., read) *every single* word of a
TV show. If any of you folks have some segment on the tape where you can't
figure out what was said because of background music or something, let me
know and I'll watch my tape and check it out for you.

What this *means* is something else. It certainly points out that WE had
some power to inhabit other people in a manner similar to BOB.

Ron Morgan
osmigo@emx.utexas.edu

> >   Who remembers when Annie went to the convent (about 5 years ago?).  I
> >ask because if it was the same time that caroline was killed this
> >Annie/Caroline may have gone to the convent to wait for
> >the right time (a conjunction, perhaps?) to enter Coops life.
> >My timing may be off, can someone verify the timing of caroline's death
> >and annie's disapearing into the convent?

I just rewatched the episode in which Coop tells Truman about the 
"baggage" that he has brought with him.  He says that "4 years ago"
he was guarding a material witness.  I think that the biography of 
Coop would probably be a better source.  As far as Annie goes, i have
no idea, haven't rewatched that one yet.

> >My theory is that BOB can jump in and out of his host's 
> >body by using the oil somehow (perhaps it is the anti-substance to MIKE's 
> >Haloperidol) when he can't use fear.This would mean that BOB has some "down time" in which he isn't in
> >the host but stays close (i.e. Sarah Palmer's and Maddy's visions -maybe he was
> >"staking" out his next victim). This might explain why the LMFAP appeared with
> > BOB after Josie died -he was just around for the ride, as it were. My 

I think so too - remember when Leland died?  He said that he knew that
there was a presence called Bob (that he'd invited in, etc).  He said 
that he didn't know what happened when Bob was there - that he didn't
remember.  Bob said that too, while he was in Leland while sitting in
the chair.  When Bob left, the "memory" came back.

Here's another question - can there be more than one bob-ized person at
a time?  My theory was that Bob roamed around, and only inhabited when
he wanted to do some dirty deed.  Bob's roaming around include his
appearances to people who are either gifted or damned.  And that he
only had one host.

> >My theory is that BOB can jump in and out of his host's 
> >body by using the oil somehow 
> >pretty sure that the engine oil allows BOB go into a body.

Well sure it does!  The pool, at the entrance to the lodge(s?)
was filled with the stuff - it's the gateway.  Doesn't Margaret
come in with oil, and say that it's the key or gateway or entrance
or something?

- Mr. Eckhart's assistant, Jones, delivered the key. Perhaps she
- also placed the bomb and note.
What language is it that Jones and Eckhart work speaking when they
first arrived in TP?  Sounded like Russian to me.  Don't know if
it's relevant.  Did anyone ever figure out why she tried to kill
Truman - other than that Josie had probably given him lots of secrets?

In article <51011@ut-emx.uucp> osmigo@ut-emx.uucp (Ron Morgan) writes:
> >In article <1991Jun22.024128.14132@risky.ecs.umass.edu> giovin@medr0.ecs.umass.edu (Rocky J Giovinazzo) writes:
>> >>In article <50991@ut-emx.uucp> osmigo@ut-emx.uucp (Ron Morgan) writes:
> >
>>> >>>The "voice that Sarah Palmer speaks" was that of Windom Earle.
>> >>What makes you so sure? 

[text about close captioning deleted]
> >In this case, it said:
> >(voice of Windom Earle)"I'm with Laura in the Black Lodge."

> >That's where I'm coming from with my statement that Sarah's voice was that
> >of Windom Earle's.

I'm sorry to learn of your hearing disability.  Although
your information makes it pretty clear that WE was the voice speaking
through Sarah, what you read is definitely not what Sarah said.  The
first words are absolutely, "I'm in the black lodge with ..."
The last words, in my opinion, are "Agent Cooper."

Rocky Giovinazzo

01dbjohns@bsu-ucs.uucp writes:

> >Does anyone realize that they weren't really talking backwards in the
> >B/W lodges?  It was just altered.  If you listen, you can make out the
> >words plainly... sans sub-titles.

I thought it was fairly easy to understand what was being said, unlike
the original "dream" scene, where the subtitles were really necessary.

-----
Eric Smith         |  "If the automobile had followed the same development as
erics@sco.com      |   the computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get
erics@infoserv.com |   a million miles per gallon, and explode once a year
CI$: 70262,3610    |   killing everyone inside."  Robert Cringely/InforWorld

Well, I just reviewed the final episode in the attempt to gain some
information on the crucial question, "how's Annie?" Specifically, for
me it comes down to where is Annie and is she dead?

The first time we see Annie in the BL, Cooper sees her lying on the
floor with himself, both covered in blood. She starts to sit up and
her movements are very zombie-like, as if she were an animated corpse.
She then is transformed into Caroline, then a series of figures that
end with WE. While WE and Cooper are facing each other, Annie appears,
with a pleading look in her eye and looking very alive, then disappears
again. The next time we see her is when she and Cooper are lying on the
ground outside the BL, covered in blood, and she looks very dead.

Here's my stab at a theory: the Annie we see on the floor of the BL is
not the real Annie, but is in fact Caroline or some other manifestation
that appears as Annie to Cooper. The living Annie who later appears and
disappears is the real Annie, but she's in some other place (the WL?),
trying to aid Cooper, but unable to remain in the BL for long. In 
general it seems that characters who may be from the WL (like the Giant,
Maddy, maybe the "good" Laura, etc.) are able to enter the BL only
briefly. The dead Annie lying on the ground outside the BL is again not
the real Annie, as that Cooper is likely not the real Cooper.

Anyone have any thoughts on this theory about what may have happened to
Annie? Did anyone make out what she was saying as WE led her toward the
circle of sycamores? At first I thought it was a prayer given her convent
background, but after listening to it again it seemed more like a chant
or incantation.

-----
Eric Smith         |  "If the automobile had followed the same development as
erics@sco.com      |   the computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get
erics@infoserv.com |   a million miles per gallon, and explode once a year
CI$: 70262,3610    |   killing everyone inside."  Robert Cringely/InforWorld