Season 2, Episode 07: Lonely Souls — November 10–16, 1990

In article <jgp.658366583@rutabaga> jgp@rutabaga.Rational.COM (Jim Pellmann) writes:
> >Warning!  Spoilers from episode 14 (11/10) follow:
> >
> >- Did everyone notice the detail on the picture in the Palmer living room
> >  as we pan into the scene where Maddy announces her planned departure:
> >  the words "Missoula, Montana".  Hence when Leland/BOB smashes Maddy's
> >  head into the picture, he says: "Leland says you're going back to
> >  Missoula, Montana!"

A friend sitting next to me pointed this out... it's true.  The picture
is of an Elk with Hornes.   (It's probably not an Elk, I'm just
too backward to know exactly what it was)
The horns image is driving me batty, it is everywhere in TP.

> >  
> >- Perfect Lynchism: "What a Wonderful World" playing on the record player.

What did you think of that noise like popcorn when One Armed Mike was
checking for BOB?  You couldn't tell what the noise was, and then when the
camera pulled back you discovered it was all these sailors bouncing balls(?!?).


> >- Does Harold's suicide note imply he was/is Pierre Tremond, or are/were
> >  those two psychically linked?

They were neighbors, maybe this isn't a coincidence.  
Maybe there is a connection between the owl that tells Harold he'll 
die if he leaves, and Pierre?  I've always wondered about Pierre,
He could be good or bad.  He could be some spirit being or just some 
dumb kid.  I wondered if Harold didn't really commit suicide, and BOB 
had something to do with his "suicide".  I wonder if they checked the 
handwriting on the note against Harold's other writing in the room?

> >- During the scene with Leo, Bobby, and Shelly: as Bobby indicated he was
> >  going to leave Shelly to fend for herself, I was struck with the notion
> >  that Leo is going to come back as a good guy.  Just a hunch.

It would be interesting if he found Jesus Christ in his heart.  Or BOB.
It'd be just as interesting if he came to as good old Leo though..
I was really glad to see Mike (bobby's friend) again...   Glad to see
they didn't forget him.  I wonder if he is going to have another 
confrontation with Donna, or James?


> >- [Ben]

They just held Ben for questioning, no charges yet.  (right?)
Well they better not have pressed charges yet, their evidence is
absurdly weak so far.  I wonder if he will volunteer for a blood test, 
or if they can legally force him?  I'm sure there are lots of other
ways they could establish his likely guilt or innocence of course.

> >- From the previews, Leo's tape seems to implicate Ben Horne since Bobby
> >  has a sudden interest in a "career in business".

I thought this too.

> >- Margaret/Log's pronouncement "There are owls in the roadhouse" implies
> >  more than one.  

There have been other things to suggest that there is more than one owl.
BOB says that owls told him about Laura's behaivior one night in the diary.
The Log Lady seems to use the plural when referring to owls--
"sometimes owls are big." "the owls won't see us in here"
The Giant's "the owls are not what they seem".

An owl nearly killed Laura in the diary, after Laura taunted BOB.

I figure either
1) the owls are associated with BOB only  or
2) the owls are associated with BOB and every other spirit being in town,
   both good and bad alike,  or
3) the owls are associated with BOB and other evil spirits only.

I haven't decided if Mike and BOB are the only spirit beings in town,
or if there are a whole slew of them.  I think BOB is the only
evil spirit directly affecting TP people, but there might be more
who hang out in owls.  Perhaps Laura is hanging out in an owl.


> >  When we first see the back of Senor Droolcup at the bar (before the 
> >  giant appears), I thought the giant was sitting at the bar.  Is Senor
> >  Droolcup the human host for the giant?  

Sounds good to me.

> >For what was he sorry?  

For Maddy playing the gameshow BOB hosts, a kind of "wheel of fortune",
and buying a vowel.  (Maddy did buy an "o", as this poster says)


> >- The record player was left spinning, just like the one in the cabin.

There was a sound similar to the high pitched humming sound in the dream
Coop has of Laura and the Dwarf too.  Also a crackling sound like in
Maddy's carpet vision.  Maddy said she smelled something burning, as 
Jacoby did when Leland smothered Jacques.  This makes me think BOB 
possessed Leland to kill Jacques.
 
> >- Why was Sarah crawling down the stairs?  Did she realize what was happening
> >  to Leland and try to prevent it?  

Leland/BOB drugged her maybe?  Knowing that Leland molested Laura many times
before, I think what happened to Sarah in this scene may have happened before.
Sarah gets knocked out and Leland goes to torment Laura.  It would fit.

> >  Why did the vision of the horse cause her to collapse?  

I don't think it did.  I think something Leland did made her collapse.
The familiarity she had with the horse gave me more reason to think
it was Troy.

> >- Now we have the letter O.  Can we assume Cooper was right and Leland (no
> >  white spotlight during fingernail insertion) is spelling Robertson?  

Robert works just as well.
The fellow with the "Black Magic" theory, console cowboy,
(#4 on the quiz competition list) had the neat idea that BOB was 
sacrificing victims to satan to gain something from him.  
I don't think "satan" is involved though.  I like the idea of the letters 
being some evil magic ritual sacrifice to get BOB something he needs or wants.

> >  [TP prequel]
> >  Can you say MER-CHAN-DIS-ING?

When I first heard about the diary, I was dissapointed.  I really thought
it would be a cheap gimmick.  It turned out to be _fantastic_ though,
and all the people I have lent it to feel the same way.  I still would
strongly reccomend it everyone stuck on Twin Peaks.  It's still the 
#1 trade paperback in the nation.  If they do as good a job with the 
prequel, I'll look forward to it.  God I hope it isn't tacky.

My humble apologies as always if this post is rambling or incoherant.

Michael Kaye  horny@ucscb.ucsc.edu

In article <1990Nov11.233253.11366@hamblin.math.byu.edu> paul@hamblin.math.byu.edu (Paul Shawcroft) writes:
> >
> >Yes, yes, the last episode affirmed what we knew already--
> >Lynch and Frost are brilliant.  They solved the murder but not
> >the mystery.  I love it!!

I loved it too.  I'm really confident now in TP's ability to hold its
audiences interest, but you never know. 

> >In the last episode, there were a lot of closeups on the vocalist
> >at the Great Northern.  And Cooper seemed to be listening
> >intently to the music.  Is there some strange message embedded
> >in the lyrics of the songs the band was playing?

I think they might be significant.  The lyrics were written 
by David Lynch, as are all of the songs on the TP soundtrack and Julee 
Cruises "Floating into the night".  Maybe I'll post the lyrics to select 
songs from Floating into the night and the TP soundtrack if I get a chance.
Some of them seem more relevant to TP than others.  I really hope they 
use the "Swan" song from Julee Cruises Floating into the night sometime 
in the show, it's so evocative.  I'd like to see Into the Night used 
again too.  I must sound like an advertising commercial for TP merchandise.
It's all great stuff, so far.  (actually I haven't heard the diane tapes yet)

Michael Kaye  horny@ucscb.ucsc.edu

In article <JYM.90Nov7122858@remarque.berkeley.edu> jym@remarque.berkeley.edu (Jym Dyer) writes:
>> >> 9.  Why was Donna acting slutty for a few episodes?
> >.-.
> >|C|ouldn't we find a better word than "slutty" here?  It has such
> >`-' negative connotations, and as it is rarely used to describe
> >    the actions of men, it comes across as pretty sexist.  (Nobody
> >    has called Ben Horne a "slut.")

It was (I assume) intentionally negative.  Because she's toned down a little
it seems that it was just to make sure she didn't lose James, but I think
"slutty" is a fairly accurate description for her behavior in the jail.

Would you have been as offended if we went and called Ben Horne a dick?
(I apologize for being a little explicit.)

Mike

--
"Everyday, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it, don't wait for it
just let it happen. It could be a new shirt from the men's store, a cat nap in
your office chair, or two cups of hot black coffee." - Agent Dale Cooper, TP

 For all his talents, Lynch is not an astronomer. Cooper filled us in that
about 13 days have passed during the course of the show. In one of the first
few episodes, we saw a full moon, and again last night we saw the full moon.
Now, it's quite impossible to go from full moon to full moon in two weeks.
And we saw other phases of the moon that were just as out of place. I just
think shows are much more enjoyable when even the little details are
taken care of. 

Jeff Kouba
Dept. of Physics and Astronomy
University of Iowa
INET: jak@ceres.physics.uiowa.edu

In article <1990Nov12.023048.23090@daffy.cs.wisc.edu> mlee@cat23.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Lee) writes:
> >In article <JYM.90Nov7122858@remarque.berkeley.edu> jym@remarque.berkeley.edu (Jym Dyer) writes:
>>> >>> 9.  Why was Donna acting slutty for a few episodes?
>> >>.-.
>> >>|C|ouldn't we find a better word than "slutty" here?  It has such
>> >>`-' negative connotations, and as it is rarely used to describe
>> >>    the actions of men, it comes across as pretty sexist.  (Nobody
>> >>    has called Ben Horne a "slut.")
> >
> >It was (I assume) intentionally negative.  Because she's toned down a little
> >it seems that it was just to make sure she didn't lose James, but I think
> >"slutty" is a fairly accurate description for her behavior in the jail.
> >

This disturbs me a lot.  I have heard that many feminists think Twin
Peaks is anti-woman, but I love the show so much that I was willing to
let all the iffy things pass.  But then there are comments like this.
Does this guy really believe that because Donna was acting like she
wanted to have sex that she is acting slutty?  And yet Ben Horne, a
married man who owns a brothel and tries out each new "girl" before
making her available to the customers, should not be refered to as a
slut?  He doesn't seem to understand the difference between a term
that condemns behavior in general and a term that condemns only
behavior in females.  Is this typical of Twin Peaks fans?  I thought
we were a mostly intellectual and aware lot, and then this dweeb comes
along ...

I find this so depressing.

Actually, I have told many people that Twin Peaks is reason enough to own
a television.  I have already found out that I don't like David Lynch
movies, but I love Twin Peaks.  I think the restrictions of network
censors keep Lynch from some of his most exploitive habits.

Here are some corrections and/or additions to Rob and Kathleen's quote
collections.  First, the corrections:

"Sheriff, it's Pete Martell, up at the mill.  Um, I'm going to transfer
 it to the phone on the table by the red chair, the, the red chair
 against the wall, uh, the little table, with the lamp on it, the
 lamp we moved from the corner.  The black phone, not the brown phone."
-- Lucy Moran

"When did you start smoking?"
"I smoke every once in a while.  Helps relieve tension."
"When did you get so tense?"
"When I started smoking."
-- James and Donna

"You wear shiny objects on your chest."
"Yes, I do."
"Are you proud?"
"No, achievement is its own reward; pride obscures it.  Cream?"
-- Major Briggs and the Log Lady


Now, here are some quotes that I have more complete (or at least more
extensive) versions of:

"I have only been in Twin Peaks a short time, but in that time I have
 seen decency, honor and dignity.  Murder is not a faceless event here;
 it is not a statistic to be tallied up at the end of the day.  Laura
 Palmer's death has affected each and every man, woman and child,
 because life has meaning here, every life.  That's a way of living I
 thought had vanished from the Earth, but it hasn't, Albert; it's right
 here in Twin Peaks."
"Sounds like you've been snacking on some of the local mushrooms."
-- Dale Cooper and Albert Rosenfield

"Agent Cooper, I am thrilled to pieces that the Dharma came to King
 Hohoho, I really am, but right now I am trying hard to focus on the more
 immediate problems of our own century, right here in Twin Peaks."
"Albert, you'd be surprised at the connections between the two."
"Color me amazed."-- Albert and Cooper

"I performed the autopsy on Jacques Renault.  Stomach contents revealed,
 let's see, beer cans, a Maryland license plate, half a bicycle tire, a
 goat, and a small wooden puppet.  Goes by the name of Pinocchio."
"You're making a joke!"
"I like to think of myself as one of the Happy Generations."
-- Albert and Cooper

"How do you feel?"
"Me?"
"I believe it's customary to ask after the health of one recently plugged
 three times."
"Thanks for asking."
"Don't get sentimental."
"Who shot me, Albert?"
"My men are interrogating the hotel guests, the usual bumper crop of
 rural know-nothings and drunken fly-fishermen.  Nothing so far.  Oh, the
 world's most decrepit room-service waiter remembers nothing out of the
 ordinary about the night in question, no surprise there.  Senor Droolcup
 has, shall we say, a mind that wanders."
-- Albert and Cooper

"Brother Ben, we've got two ledgers and one smoked cheese pig.  Which one
 do we burn? ...and it ain't gonna be my pig."
-- Jerry


And, finally, here are some brand new quotes:

"Diane, it struck me again earlier this morning:  there are two things
 that continue to trouble me, and I am speaking now now only as an
 agent of the Bureau but also as a human being.  What really went on
 between Marilyn Monroe and the Kennedys, and who really pulled the
 trigger on JFK?"-- F.B.I. Special Agent Dale Cooper

"You're quite a girl, Norma.  I'll bet you get all kinds of Romeos in
 here, uh, begging for favors.  How do you keep them from your door?"
"I usually tell them I have a homocidally jealous husband
 who's doing 3 to 5 for manslaughter, but he expects to be a
 productive member of society real soon."
-- Parole Officer and Norma Jennings

"I'll see you in your dreams."
"Not if I see you first."
-- Bobby Briggs and Norma Jennings

"Who's the lady with the log?"
"We call her the log lady."
-- Dale Cooper and Harry S. Truman

"Can I ask her about her log?"
"Many have."-- Dale Cooper and Harry S. Truman

"Harry, the last thing I want you to worry about while I'm here is some
 city slicker I brought into your town relieving himself upstream."
-- Dale Cooper

"How ya doin' down there?"-- Sr. Droolcup

"I will tell you three things.  If I tell them to you, and they come
 true, then will you believe me?"
"Who's that?"
"Think of me as a friend."
"Where do you come from?"
"The question is, where have you gone?"
"The first thing I will tell you is:  there is a man in a smiling bag."
"Man in a smiling bag."
"The second thing is:  the owls are not what they seem."
"The third thing is:  without chemicals, he points."
"What do these things mean?"
"This is all I'm permitted to say.  Give me your ring.  I will return
 it to you when you find these things to be true."
"We want to help you."
"Who's 'we'?"
"One last thing:  Leo locked inside a hungry horse.  There is a clue at
 Leo's house."
"You will require medical attention."
-- Giant and Cooper

"Diane, my recorder is on the table.  I am unable to reach it at this
 time.  I can only hope that I inadvertently pressed the voice activation
 button.  I am lying on the floor of my room; I've been shot."
-- Cooper

"At a time like this, curiously, you begin to think of the things you
 regret, or the things you might miss.  I would like in general to treat
 people with much more care and respect.  I would like to climb a tall
 hill, not too tall, sit in the cool grass, not too cool, and feel the
 sun on my face.  I wish I could have cracked the Lindberg kidnapping
 case.  I would very much like to make love to a beautiful woman who I
 had genuine affection for.  And of course it goes without saying that I
 would like to visit Tibet."-- Cooper

"Lucy, you better bring agent Cooper up to date."
"Leo Johnson was shot, Jacques Renault was strangled, the mill
 burned, Shelley and Pete got smoke inhalation, Catherine and
 Josie are missing, Nadine is in a coma from taking sleeping
 pills."
"How long have I been out?"
-- Harry, Lucy and Cooper

"You're not going anywhere."
"Doc, when the will is invoked, the recuperative powers of the
 physical body are simply extraordinary.  Just give me a couple
 of hours to get dressed."
-- Dr. Hayward and Cooper

"Sheriff, get your mind off Shelley."
-- Cooper

"And it's another great moment in law enforcement history."
-- Albert Rosenfield (after watching Andy
   board himself in the head)

"Breathe."
*sigh*
"Again."
*sigh*
"Okay.  You were shot by a right-handed person, 5'6 to 5'10" tall, at
 a distance of less than three feet.  I'll have ballistics later this
 afternoon."-- Albert and Cooper

"Meanwhile, one of your principal suspects is killed in his hospital bed
 and the other is shot in his living room.  You tell me: vigilante
 justice or just clean, country living."
"Albert, where does this attitude of general unpleasantness come
 from?"
"I'll have to get back to you on that."
"Well, if you don't want two black eyes on a regular basis, I
 suggest you make some kind of peace with a rural life."
"Great.  After the square dance maybe we can all take a hay ride."
-- Albert and Cooper

"Andy, how's the nose?"
"Not a mark on it; only blood squirted out."
"Where do they keep his water dish?"
-- Cooper, Andy and Albert

"Is he *on* something?"
"Only what you prescribed.  I think he did take a little bit of
 his food."
"My God, could that be it?"
>blurp<-- Dr. Hayward, a Nurse, and Jacoby's food

"Bobby Briggs."
"What's he doing here?"
"He doesn't look sick."
"Sheriff Truman, to see this kind of investigative genius at
 work, it's just a real treat for me."
-- Harry, Cooper and Albert

"Harry, when Albert finishes up at the Great Northern, we'll meet back at
 the station.  I'm ready to lay the whole thing out."
"Rocks and bottles?"
"Chalk and blackboard will be just fine."
"Jelly donuts?"
"Harry, that goes without saying."
-- Cooper and Harry

"Dad?"
"Yes, son?"
"What is it that you do, exactly?"
"That's classified."
"Oh."-- Bobby and Major Garland

"Chopping wood?  Inside?"
"Yeah.  You know Leo."-- Jerry and Hank

"Hank, you leave the creative thinking to the brothers Horne.  You are a
 bicep.  Relax until we say 'flex'."
-- Benjamin

"Diane, it's 11:55 pm, approximately 19 hours since the shooting incident
 which nearly caused me to make a premature purchase of the proverbial
 farm."-- Cooper

"Sorry to wake you."
"I'm not dreaming."
"I forgot to tell you something."
"You were right about the smiling bag."
"The things I tell you will not be wrong.
 Better to listen than to talk."
"I believe you."
"Don't search for all the answers at once.  A path is formed by laying
 one stone at a time."
"One person saw the third man.  Three have seen him, yes, but not his
 body. One only, known to you, ready now to talk."
"One more thing:  you forgot something."
"What?"-- Giant and Cooper

"So, which one do we burn?"-- Jerry

"No messages, Deputy *Brennan*."
"Listen to me, Lucy Moran, you just listen.  When the Tacoma Sperm
 Bank was looking for donors, naturally I applied.  It's my civic
 duty, and I like whales.  A routine physical examination revealed
 that I'm sterile.  Sure, I thought it meant I didn't have to take
 a bath, but the doctors told me the truth.  They told me I can't
 have babies.  So what I want to know now, is why are you having
 one and how?"-- Lucy and Andy

"Sheriff Truman, I have Ben Horne on the phone for you.  Would you like
 me to transfer him to you -- well, not him but his phone call?"
"Put him on, Lucy."
"Mr. Horne, this is Lucy.  I'm going to transfer you now into Sheriff
 Truman's office.  He's in there with Special Agent Dale Cooper.  Okay,
 so, hold on."
"Sheriff Truman?  I transferred Ben Horne to you.  It's the line with the
 light that's blinking."-- Lucy and Harry

"Jerry?  Please kill Leland."-- Ben

"I don't care about the money.  I don't want Leo home."
"Leo is in dream-land.  We can stick him in a corner and hang
 donuts from his ears."
-- Shelley and Bobby

--
Human:    Gordon Davisson
Internet: gordon@phast.phys.washington.edu
UUCP:     {decvax,tektronix}!uw-beaver!uw-june!phastvax!gordon
Bitnet:   gordon@uwaphast

In article <1934.273d9a65@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com> lieser@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com writes:
> >In article <1990Nov11.210015.27042@hoss.unl.edu>, davidl@fergvax.unl.edu (David Larson) writes:
>> >> BOB was in Ben an Ben killed Laura!
>> >> [...]
>> >> I have no doubt, though, that at times before BOB inhabited Leland and
>> >> caused him to abuse Laura.
> >
> >Yes, I'm not convinced that Leland killed Laura, either.  BOB could have
> >been "hosted" by someone else at that time.

So BOB moves from person to person?  Then I guess we can put Andy
and Truman back on our lists along with Harold Smith.  Of course
we can't rule out the Laura suicide theory either.  In fact,
we can write off the whole 11/10 episode.  I don't necessarily
trust ABC's publicity department but this time I think they really
did make good on their promise.

-- Scott Amspoker Basis International, Albuquerque, NM (505) 345-5232 unmvax.cs.unm.edu!bbx!bbxsda!scott

In article <UbCliIC00Vsn8RvFpb@andrew.cmu.edu>, bobg+@andrew.cmu.edu (Robert Steven Glickstein) writes...

} Hawk spots the One-Armed Man in the hospital, follows him, and loses him
} in episode 1/1.  He reports this to Cooper in the beginning of 1/2. 
} Cooper has his dream at the end of 1/2.

} Question:  Why did Hawk follow the One-Armed Man, and why did Cooper
} seem to think that Hawk's discovery of a one-armed man was so revealing?
} By that point in the story, there had been absolutely nothing *a propos*
} a one-armed man.  What, at that point, made Philip Gerard worthy of
} investigation?

Hawk noticed a strange individual in the ICU area and decided to check him
out. Probably an instinctual thing.

Cooper didn't think anything particularly significant about an OAM until
after he had the dream. At that point, he figured that the OAM may be a
piece of the puzzle and had Hawk out trying to track him down.

-- "Good thing you guys can't keep a secret." --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA) UUCP: ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian ARPA: boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM

In article <3785@vela.acs.oakland.edu> rjohnson@vela.acs.oakland.edu (R o d Johnson) writes:
   In article <2890@dali> icsu8297@attila.cs.montana.edu (Wilbanks) writes:

   >   B) They curiously superimposed Laura's face over Donna's in one early
   >      episode.

   . . . what!?  When was this?

This was the first episode of season one.  Donna comes in to comfort
Sarah Palmer.  They commiserate for a while, then Sarah sees Laura's
face superimposd over Donna's and embraces Donna.  It's while they're
hugging that Sarah has the vision of BOB crouching at the foot of
Laura's bed.

-30-
Bob

``Do you know where dreams come from?''

cromwell@acsu.buffalo.edu (mark j cromwell) writes:

> >   How was Leland's wife slain? I didn't notice an injury. Maybe the
> >burning smell has something to do with it. It took her long enough to die,
> >and she went rather silently.

Ugh, ugh, ugh!   Everybody is jumping to conclusions!  What makes you think
Sarah Palmer is dead?  I got the impression she was just unconscious.  She
did not appear injured (outwardly).

You know Sarah Palmer... It's not like psychic distress is anything new
for her.

In article <273D0CDF.18414@ics.uci.edu> bvickers@ics.uci.edu (Brett J. Vickers) writes:

 When do we get a Twin Peaks Soundtrack
   Part II?  I want those two Julee Cruise songs.

The songs are ``Rockin' Back Inside My Heart'' and ``The World
Spins''.  Both are on the Julee Cruise album (I wonder if Julee will
eventually perform all the songs from her album at The Roadhouse?)
They also both appear in the Lynch/Badalamenti ``Industrial Symphony
No. 1'' (``Rockin' Back Inside My Heart'' is performed by Julee while
she's sitting in the trunk of a car!), a very disturbing piece.

-30-
Bob

``I find adherence to fantasy troubling and unreasonable.''

Note that Jacoby also mentioned an odd smell when Leland killed Jacques.

Here are the lyrics to "The World Spins", which Julee Cruise was singing 
as the Giant appeared:

        Moving near the edge of night
        Dust is dancing in the space
        A dog and bird are far away
        The sun comes up and down each day
        Light and shadow change the walls
        Halley's comet's come and gone
        The things I touch are made of stone
        Falling through this night alone

        Love
        Don't go away
        Come back this way
        Come back and stay
        Forever and ever

        Please stay

        Dust is dancing in the space
        A dog and bird are far away
        The sun comes up and down each day
        The river flows out to the sea

        Love
        Don't go away
        Come back this way
        Come back and stay
        Forever and ever

        The world spins

Reprinted without permission from the liner notes to Julee Cruise's album 
"Floating Into the Night" which noone on this group has any possible 
excuse for not owning :) [I don't >think< I'm violating much by posting 
these, as lotsa other words from the show have been posted here.]

BTW, 6 of the 10 songs on the disc have appeared on the show, and another 
was in "Blue Velvet". After Julee Cruise shows up and sings the other 
three, Lynch/Badalamenti may actually have to write some new ones!

--

Joe Zitt...cs.utexas.edu!kvue!zitt!joe (512)450-1916

In article <27239@cs.yale.edu> long-morrow@CS.YALE.EDU (H. Morrow Long) writes:
> >The TP theme song was just an audio question on Jeopardy (Mon Nov 12 7:40P EST).

> >TV Trivia for $200
> >The theme song for this 1990 mystery series...
> >The contestant supplied the correct answer.

scott@bbxsda.UUCP (Scott Amspoker) writes:

> >A $200 question, huh?  I would think with TP's low ratings, it could
> >have been a $1000 question.

Tch, tch.  `Jeopardy', like `Twin Peaks', tends to attract a
higher class audience.  The judges know that stuff.

:-)
-- " . . . within a nanometer (about a billionth of a yard) . . . " Reader's Digest, November 1990, pp. 31

Excerpts from netnews.alt.tv.twin-peaks: 13-Nov-90 Closing credits photo
Morris Jones@netcom.UUCP (458)

> > Did you notice?  This was the first show in which the closing credits were
> > run over something other than a Laura Palmer school photo.

That's false.  Whenever Lynch has directed an episode, the closing
credits have rolled over whatever image or images he felt like showing. 
Whenever someone else has directed, the image has always been Laura's
photo.

Lynch directed to pilot, and the closing credits image was Laura's photo.

Lynch directed the Dwarf-dream episode, and the closing credits rolled
over a long sequence of the dwarf dancing in the red-curtain room.

Lynch directed the season 2 premiere, and the closing credits rolled
over a sequence of Gersten Hayward playing the piano.

Lynch directed the Creamed-corn episode, and I can't remember what we
saw in the closing credits.

______________                  _____________________________
Bob Glickstein                | Internet: bobg@andrew.cmu.edu
Information Technology Center | Bitnet:   bobg%andrew@cmuccvma.bitnet
Carnegie Mellon University    | UUCP:     ...!harvard!andrew.cmu.edu!bobg
Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890    |
(412) 268-6743                | Sinners can repent, but stupid is forever

Excerpts from netnews.alt.tv.twin-peaks: 13-Nov-90 Re: Next week's
episode of .. I. Bibliomystic@ucscb.UC (680)

> > In article <21627@well.sf.ca.us> emmanuel@well.sf.ca.us (Emmanuel
> > Goldstein) writes:
>> > >
>> > >I have one question: who the HELL is Vivian?! The way they 
>> > >phrased it makes it sound like it's somebody we've heard of
>> > >before. Have we? I can't for the life of me recall a character
>> > >named Vivian.

> > At a guess, James' mom? I've certainly never heard of her either.

SPOILER:

According to TV Guide, it's *Norma's* mom.

______________                  _____________________________
Bob Glickstein                | Internet: bobg@andrew.cmu.edu
Information Technology Center | Bitnet:   bobg%andrew@cmuccvma.bitnet
Carnegie Mellon University    | UUCP:     ...!harvard!andrew.cmu.edu!bobg
Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890    |
(412) 268-6743                | Sinners can repent, but stupid is forever

In article <2155@maus.Morgan.COM> maus@Morgan.COM (Malcolm Austin) writes:
#Did anyone ('sides, me, of course) notice that, with Lucy gone to Tacoma,
#the only donuts in evidence during the 11/10 Twin Peaks was a discreet
#dozen donuts on a plate when Coop is piecing together Laura's diary?
#
#I thought it was nice that they didn't have the big layout (of course) but 
#they still sent someone down to pick up a fast dozen for Coop. :^)

But they were double stacked!  Maybe BOB stacks the donuts while he's
possessing Lucy!

Douglas Krause                     One yuppie can ruin your whole day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
University of California, Irvine   Internet: dkrause@orion.oac.uci.edu
Welcome to Irvine, Yuppieland USA  BITNET: DJKrause@ucivmsa

In article <34890001@hpsmtc1.cup.hp.com> azayha@hpsmtc1.cup.hp.com (Albert Zayha) writes:
#According to Laura's diary entry (and to my nearest recollection thereof)
#Twin Peaks in located 5 miles south of the Canadian border and 12 miles east
#of the Idaho border.

In Episode 1 Cooper says to Diane that Twin Peaks is 5 miles south of the
Canadian border and 12 miles east of the *state* border.  No state speci-
fied at that time.

Douglas Krause                     One yuppie can ruin your whole day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
University of California, Irvine   Internet: dkrause@orion.oac.uci.edu
Welcome to Irvine, Yuppieland USA  BITNET: DJKrause@ucivmsa

Went to see Julee Cruise at the Paradise club last night.  Not bad,
although a bit on the sterile side.  The show opened with the band
playing some of Laura's theme.  They also played other bits of the
Twin Peaks music in between songs - Audrey's dance was particularly
well done.  It was a very quiet and spooky show.  Julee Cruise didn't
say much, and didn't do much other than stand there at the mic, with
her finger in her ear (very annoying after a few songs - I realize
she's gotta be able to hear herself, but isn't that why clubs have
monitors?) and gesturing vaguely.  She didn't talk much except to say
"thank you" and introduce the band at the end.  She did a few songs
from the Industrial Symphony, but most of the show was from the
"Floating Into The Night" album.

An interesting evening.

+---------------------- Is there any ESCAPE from NOISE? ---------------------+
|  |   |\       | jsd@gaffa.mit.edu | ZIK ZAK - We make everything you need, |
| \|on |/rukman | -Fight The Power- | and you need everything we make.       |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

I find it interesting that Horne didn't say he didn't kill Laura, and
Bob still could have had multiple hosts. The idea that Maddie is dead
is not in evidence yet, since Ronnette was spared, although she hasnt
been much help yet.


-- ************************************************************************ ************** donb@bushido.uucp *********** ************** "My Opinions are my own, no one else's" *********** ************** Organizational Affiliation: *********** ************** CreativEdge Systems *********** ************** An Amiga Business Multimedia Developer *********** ************************************************************************

As I was reading someone's posting about the picture of some Microsoft
software package that had a bunch of memos with TP character's names, I
noticed something unusual that I have not seen anyone mention (if this 
particular dead horse has already been thoroughly flogged, flame away).

The name on the posted memo list for agent Cooper was D.B. Cooper.  Maybe I
am just high, but wasn't that the name of the man who skyjacked a jet, took
$200,000 in ransom, and then bailed out somewhere over the state of Washington
and was never seen again?  I am not sure if we have been shown Dale's
middle name, but it could begin with a 'b'.  The show itself is set in the
heavily forested area of middle Washington.  Coincidence?  I think not.  I
sincerely doubt there would be any way this could be remarked upon by the
characters, but I would believe that Lynch (and Frost and all the other authors who added to the gestalt :^) would have intentionally put this in for kicks. 

As an added note, I too would like to know if there is an ftp site with TP
gifs and/or sound files.  If som kind soul could send/post this info, I
would appreciate it.

                                      Kevin Schraith, U of Illinois

In article <QbDgI8200Vpe0EDkkd@andrew.cmu.edu>, jh6g+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jason F. Harvey) writes:
> > 3) It was said in the USA TODAY that not even the cast members new that
> > the asian was Piper Laurie.

     This is almost as bad as the ghost in Three Men and a Baby!  If you really
believe that Piper Laurie ran around in drag for weeks, completely unknown to
the rest of the cast, I've got some land for you here in Florida.

     Consider: production often runs 12, 14 hours a day.  She would have to
keep up the charade all the time, eating, talking to everyone else, going
to the bathroom.  You have to have her made up off-site, since she would 
appear as Fumio when she arrived for work each day.  She'd have to have all
sorts of lies made up, since the first things people will ask is "Where have
you worked before?"

    And most importantly: even seeing her in low-res TV, most of us realized
that was a woman in drag.  How easy would it be to determine this up close
and personal?  The biggest tip-off was her skin.  Her face was smooth, with
no shadow, even though she had this humongous moustache.  In those close-ups,
with Pete or Ben, the other actor would instantly see the makeup and fake
hair.

-- Chuck Musciano ARPA : chuck@trantor.harris-atd.com Harris Corporation Usenet: ...!uunet!x102a!trantor!chuck PO Box 37, MS 3A/1912 AT&T : (407) 727-6131 Melbourne, FL 32902 FAX : (407) 729-2537 A good newspaper is never good enough, but a lousy newspaper is a joy forever. -- Garrison Keillor

One thing that bothers me about Nadine is that she has not asked about her
eye.  According to when the accident occurred, it is after the time that
she remembers.  I personally would be very tramatized by waking up and
having an eye missing.  Even if I knew I had lost part of my memory, I
would have trouble dealing with this.

Oz

I've been wondering the same thing.  To me it sounds as if he's
yelling, "I can't!  I can't!"  But that's just a guess.  I dunno.  The
OAM was looking rather hassled as they were parading everyone in front
of him...  I think the whole Ben Horne thing was a red herring; I
don't think the OAM "pointed" at anything...  yet.

--k

In article <1990Nov14.141633.1106@lokkur.dexter.mi.us>, scs@lokkur.dexter.mi.us (Steve Simmons) writes:
|> Sorry, but you're wrong.  In the scene with the giant after Cooper was
|> shot, the giant reaches down and removes Coopers ring.  It is clear
|> from that it is possible for the possessing spirits to affect the
|> physical world without requiring a host.  Therefore there is no
|> requirement that Bob possessed anyone else in order to attack Ronette.

While I believe that Bob exclusively possesses Leland (and that "possession"
may not even be the right word to describe their link) I don't think this
proves anything.  What if giant's host is the world's most decrepit room
service waiter (WMDRSW)?  If so, the giant has a body, the WMDRSW, and
can use it to remove Cooper's ring.


--
Joe Buck
jbuck@galileo.berkeley.edu {uunet,ucbvax}!galileo.berkeley.edu!jbuck

drew.cmu.edu>
Sender: rcarter@nyx.cs.du.edu
Reply-To: rcarter@isis.UUCP (Ron Carter)
Followup-To: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Distribution: usa
Organization: Center for the Study of Creative Intelligence
Keywords: Catherine, kiss, Pete, Lynch

In article <sbDzCS600VsnE=JlES@andrew.cmu.edu> bobg+@andrew.cmu.edu (Robe
t Steven Glickstein) writes:
> >Excerpts from netnews.alt.tv.twin-peaks: 11-Nov-90 11/10 episode
> >*SPOILERS* Ron Carter@isis.cs.du.ed (794)
> >
>> >> And of course, the CATHERINE ( the great ) scene was pure LYNCH.
> >
> >AAAAAAIIIGGGGGHHHHH!
> >
> >Will people PLEASE refrain from saying that such-and-such a scene "was
> >pure Lynch," unless they know what they're talking about? 

> >(Note:  This post is not "pure Glickstein")

In saying that ( in my knowledgeable opinion ) "... scene was pure LYNCH."
I was intimating that LYNCH has done similar scenes in the past ( within
TWIN PEAKS, BLUE VELVET, DUNE as well as others ) ie the "grab the face
and smack...". In fact, it seems Lynch keeps doing variations on this 
theme, trying to explore a wide range of settings, responses, and moods.

In TWIN PEAKS we have it as a continuing theme ( established by Lynch )
with examples set by virtually every couple available.

And your posting ( flaming ) -was- "pure Glickstein" as it was pointless,
self-indulgent, and rather rude.

-- Ron Carter | rcarter@nyx.cs.du.edu Director | Center for the Study of Creative Intelligence Denver, CO | Knowledge is power; knowledge to the people.

In article <11241@goofy.Apple.COM> Paul_Burriesci.INTEGRATION@gateway.qm.apple.com (Paul Burriesci) writes:
> >(why does 'Trebo' sound familiar to me? aside from the fact that it's 
> >'roberT' backwards)

Perhaps it sounds like the name: Trebor which is either
a real name some people name their kids or is from some
obscure Sci-Fi book.
:-9

-maTT BROckman
"How 'bout them Steeplejacks?"  -Leland

There's no reason for Cooper to interpret the Giant's statement
correctly and run over to the Palmer house and save Maddy at the last
minute.  He's never met her; he doesn't know that she looks like Laura;
he doesn't even know that the Palmers have a house guest.  He *might*
eventually correctly interpret Mike's statement that only the gifted and
the damned can see Bob, and conclude that Leland must be damned (he's
obviously not gifted), but I sincerely doubt that he's going to do that
right away.  

There's also a lot of evidence in the diary that suggests that Bob is
either Ben Horne or Leland, so he's probably on to Leland as soon as he
realizes he was wrong about Ben.  Whether he'll trust his intuitions
about this after screwing up so badly on Ben, I don't know.

I don't know if anyone's mentioned that Austin Jack Lynch's statement in
French about being a lonely soul matched Harold Smith's exactly.  This
implies that Harold was killed by the magician next door; he didn't
commit suicide out of depression at being invaded by Donna.  Perhaps she
inadvertently gave them access to Harold, which would explain why they
referred her to him in the first place.

-- J

Let me start this article by saying that none of my assertions are 
"provable", things in TP never are.  If we only considered things
that were certain, and did not speculate, this would be a very
boring discussion.  I put more faith in the diary than many
readers in this group.  While it misses on a few quibbling details,
like the year (heh), it gets the major points right IMHO.
There is alot of confusion about what BOB is, hopefully
this article will give people some ideas to ponder.  Apologies
for length.  This article is one big spoiler.

In article <YbE7vR200juk5R64gW@cs.cmu.edu> Jon.Webb@CS.CMU.EDU writes:
> >I think that Sarah is not dead, but Maddy is.  
> >However, I doubt that Sarah will contribute any good information -- 
> >she's unconscious and anyway she seems to be protecting Leland/Bob.  

More importantly, since she failed to help Laura or incriminate
BOB during all the years Laura was terrorized by BOB, she
likely won't be much help here either, for the same reasons.
I don't know what those reasons are, but judging by what BOB does
to Laura, I think BOB blinded Sarah to what was going on , 
terrorized her into silence, or convinced her she couldn't do 
anything to help anyway.  Perhaps Sarah was incapacitated
every time Laura was molested by Leland the same way she
was incapacitated last episode.


   BOB is able to affect what people see.  For instance, Ronette only 
saw BOB at the traincar, not Leland.  BOB had concealed who his host 
was from Laura for years and years.  BOB seems to be able to manipulate 
people's consciousness, often appearing to his victim only, affecting 
what they perceive and remember.  I don't think BOB needs a human host
to appear to his victims, but does need one to directly affect
them physically.


  Let's hear from BOB what his powers are.  Note that he most likely 
overstated his powers to terrorize Laura, to instill a greater sense 
of helplessness in her.  Clearly he can enter peoples consciousness 
and affect their thoughts and perception of reality.  This might
include the ability to pass unseen, explaining his entrance into 
the guarded hospital room.  I don't know how much else he can do, 
but his powers probably include an uncommon ability to gather information 
and/or read minds (he probably does this in owl or spirit form?), 
and the ability to take people to a strange other world.  Whatever 
BOB can do, he clearly is an absolute expert at psychologically destroying 
Laura, making her feel dirty, unloved, helpless, like she deserved 
the abuse he gave her.

[Laura wakes up from a dream and sees BOB at the edge of his bed,
as in the show itself]

"YOU FORGOT, LAURA, I KNOW EVERYTHING, SEE EVERYTHING, GO ANYWHERE I 
WANT... I COULD TELL YOU MORE ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK ARE SECRETS THAN
YOU COULD TELL YOURSELF! [...]"   (pg 82)

[Laura says 'I'm going to have to tell everyone and make them believe]

"TELL THEM WHAT, LAURA PALMER?  TELL THEM THAT I TAKE YOU AWAY AND YOU 
NEVER ARGUE?  YOU NEVER SCREAM FOR HELP?  TELL THEM YOU SEE ME BUT NO ONE 
ELSE DOES?  NO ONE WILL BELIEVE YOU, LAURA PALMER... I'M TOO CAREFUL." (pg 85)

(pg 86)
"REMEMBER, LAURA PALMER, I CAN MANIPULATE YOUR CONSCIENCE SO THAT YOU FEEL 
NOTHING BUT WHAT I CHOOSE FOR YOU TO FEEL." 
[further vulgar psychological violence deleted] 

(pg 106)
"AN OWL TOLD ME (what Laura did last night)"

Now Laura's poetry, where she tells us what it is like to be terrorized
by BOB.

(age 12{!}, pg 12)
"From the light in my window he can see into me
But i cannot see him until he is close
Breathing, with a smile at my window
He comes to take me
Turn me round and round
Come out and play  Come play
Lie still  Lie still  Lie still.

Little rhymes and little songs               (one chants out? --mike)
Pieces of the forest in my hair and clothes  (woods = BOB's other world)
Sometimes I see him near me
when I know he can't be there                (BOB appears in visions too)
Sometimes I feel him near me
and I know it is something just to bear.

When I call out
No one can hear me                      (because laura is in another world?)
When I whipser, he thinks the message
Is for him only.
My little voice inside my throat
I always think there must be something
That I've done
Or something I can do
But no one no one comes to help [...]


(pg 20, still age 12.  Similar idea poem on pg 53.)

Inside me there is something 
No one knows about
Like a secret
Sometimes it takes over
And I drift back
Deep into darkness.
This secret tells me                     (BOB terrorized her into silence)
I will never grow older
Never laugh with friends
Never be who I should if I ever reveal Its name.

I cannot tell if it is real
Or if I dream of it
For when it touches me
I drift off
No tears come
No screams
I am wrapped up                           (Perhaps similar to what we see 
In a nightmare of hands                    happening to Maddy with BOB's 
And of fingers                             kisses and caresses.  Feeding?)
And of small tiny voices in the woods     (woods= other world, voices are
[...]                                      spirits like BOB, Mike, Giant)

Other words from Laura about BOB (and the owl{s})

(pg 19)
"   The owls have started hooting.  One of them is just above me in
the tree... Something about him is strange.  I know it is a boy owl,
and I feel like he's watching me.  Each time I look up at him his
head moves like he is quickly turning away from me. [..]
Perhaps he is a bird like in that story I read.  This big bird could
sweep down and rest on someone's shoulder, acting very sweet, but
would then read the persons mind.  If the person was thinking bad thoughts, 
the bird would peck away at the person's eyes and ears so that there would 
only be questions of sound and sight in the person's head, instead of
bad and nasty thoughts.  I dream of flying sometimes.  [..]
I would fly right over Twin Peaks and out over the land beyond it.
I'd never come back if I didn't have to."
(pg 58)

"He wants me to like it, when he is with me.  He wants me to say that 
I am dirty and that I have an odor.  I should be thrown into the river
so I will be clean. (!!)
  [..] He comes to the window, and I see him.  I always see him, and he is
always smiling like we are going to have a good time. (BOB wears a smile)
I am so close to calling my parents for help, but I am afraid of what
would happen.  I can't let anyone know about him.  If I keep seeing him,
he might get tired of me and go away.  Maybe if I stopped fighting
him, he would not like to visit me anymore.  If I weren't afraid.
If I could just not feel afraid..."

There is a vulgar 'chant' on page 58.  There are many references
to Laura's window being a portal through which BOB comes through,
perhaps through which he takes Laura to another world.  Laura
points out many times that BOB only comes at night.  She
says she receives many 'cuts' from BOB.

(pg 70)
"I do not doubt that BOB is aware of my every movement."
"Surgery of a strange and indescribable nature takes place. "

Finally let me say that I think Laura had BOB's child
growing within her.   It's always nice to end a post
on an obscure note. :)  Feel free to mail me feedback on this.


Michael Kaye  horny@ucscb.ucsc.edu  "I AM WHAT YOU FEAR I COULD BE"

In article <1990Nov12.202422.2164@axis.dsg.ti.com> mccarty@aaet.csc.ti.com (Rick McCarty) writes:
> >Hey dude!  The NAME of a group has nothing to do with the ability to get
> >a feed.

This is not strictly true.  I know for a fact that one of our sites is
unable to receive the newsgroup
"sci.physics.edward.teller.boom.boom.boom" because the software we are
using cannot handle a group with a name that long.

In article <4871@trantor.harris-atd.com> chuck@trantor.harris-atd.com (Chuck Musciano) writes:
> >In article <QbDgI8200Vpe0EDkkd@andrew.cmu.edu>, jh6g+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jason F. Harvey) writes:
>> >> 3) It was said in the USA TODAY that not even the cast members new that
>> >> the asian was Piper Laurie.
> >
> >     This is almost as bad as the ghost in Three Men and a Baby!  If you really
> >believe that Piper Laurie ran around in drag for weeks, completely unknown to
> >the rest of the cast, I've got some land for you here in Florida.

I'm not sure about that.  The Asian man was only in a few scenes.
Shooting schedules are carefully planned.  Cast members don't just
hang around the set drinking coffee all day if they are not needed.
It is possible that most of the cast never met Ms. Laurie while she 
was in drag.  Also, she supposedly couldn't speak any English and
did not mingle with other cast members.

I'm not saying that I wholeheartedly believe this story, I just
can't dismiss it so easily.

-- Scott Amspoker | Basis International, Albuquerque, NM | "I'm going out for a sandwich" (505) 345-5232 | - Ben unmvax.cs.unm.edu!bbx!bbxsda!scott |

On the subject of multiple BOB hosts:

   In my view, this would render nearly any discussion of WKLP or WKTB
or WKMF (or TP for that matter)totally pointless. And if BOB can have multiple
hosts, why hasn't he destroyed Cooper or Phil Gerrard yet? They pose the
greatest threat to him, if anyone actually does.

   And I have never heard of a multiple personality disorder that managed
to manifest in several physically seperate people if there is more than one
host, but BOB is just some mental creation of Leland or Laura or Phil Gerrard.

Ratings:
  Last I heard, the 11/10 episode won its slot, at least half-way through it.

Ending scene:
      I, like nearly all of us here, have seen far worse. I was somewhat
reminded of the end of LOOKING FOR MR.GOODBAR. I am struck, however, by 
the feeling of utter helplessness as it unfolds clearly before your eye.
No dim lights, no suggestive shadows on the wall. That, and the knowledge
that perhaps you don't have to be corrupted the way Laura was for BOB to strike
at you anyway. The violence was pretty mild. The intensity of the scene and the 
handling of the follow-up at the roadhouse are what truly bring its impact.
Remember what Cooper said about how death is not a faceless thing in Twin
Peaks. Here, we were made to feel it, too.

              -J

=========================[]========================[]=========================
James M. Vincent               JVINCENT@WESLEYAN.BITNET   Box ASTR WesStation
Le Marquis de Fumel et de Lisle                           Middletown, CT 06457
Baron de Monsegur                                         (203) 638-3803
Premier Baron d'Agenais    

"Teacher, teach science the way we scientists wrote it, and confine your
speculations to reading period, nap time, and lunch." -Dr.Science.
=========================[]========================[]===========================

I just read in "Variety" magazine today that TP has been picked up for
another nine episodes so as to make a complete season.God bless ABC
(Did I say that?).

Allison.Wonderland allison@oxy.edu

The white horse comes from the Bible's Book of Revelation and
indicates the Death is approaching.

So far the most sensible theory about the horse that I've
read is the note about "death rides a pale horse", so that
appearance of the horse is death's "calling card".

Something else that I haven't seen mentioned yet is that
when Maddie annouced to the Palmers that she'd be going
back to Missoula, after one of them said something like
they'd miss her, Maddy promised that she'd "come galloping
back".  Hmmm...

A more frivolous theory of mine was that the horse is
another inhabiting spirit for Leland.  One of his personalities
seems to be a white-haired hoofer...  [:-) of course of course]

Monday I asked Scott Frost about the horse; his answer
was roughly:  "I have no idea where that horse came from.
Maybe it's another of those inspirations of David's that pop up
while they're shooting."

If that's true, and the horse doesn't come back to haunt us,
it's probably just a harbinger of death.


------------------
Paul Raveling
Raveling@Unify.com

In article <2511@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU> bchurch@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU (Bob Church) writes:
> >
> >You might want to browse through the book "Unix Communications" by Anderson,
> >Costales, and Henderson. Among many other things it explains the reasons for
> >different prefixes such as comp. rec. alt. etc. These prefixes are there to
> >allow the easy exclusion of entire groups.  Alt. is generally the first to
> >go. In fact, the book shows a printout of the .newsrc for the authors machine,
> >the WELL ( not his machine actually, but the one he uses ) which is administered
> >by Stewart Brand. It includes the rec. groups but not alt.
> >

Are you perhaps confusing the READING of news with its TRANSMISSION?  (I'll
see if I can find the book to be sure I'm not wrong on this, but...)
In my experience, .newsrc is associated with news readers (such as rn, gnus,
nn, etc).  What I'm talking about is the software which actually manages the
news and passes it between sites (bnews, cnews, etc).

Sites don't HAVE to feed (or be fed) all groups, even within a given category.
There are some sites which must get feeds from multiple locations in order
to get all the groups they want.  There are others which limit the groups they
receive for various reasons, even though a feed is readily available.

If I want to get a feed for com.binaries.ibm-pc but not comp.sources.ibm-pc,
I can do that.  If I want to provide feeds for selected newsgroups I can do
that.  If I need a feed for a specific group, there's usually some place out
there that will help me - if I just ask.

Now I do know that it is possible for sites to wholesale say "I want all the
rec groups", AND (not that they would actually do this) sysadmins can also
say, "I want all of the rec groups except for x.  But it is through a
different mechanism than a .newsrc file.

Anyway, I still believe that what I said still stands - if any site wants
a Twin Peaks feed, they can almost surely get one from somewhere.  It does
not HAVE to become a rec group for folks to get feeds.

===========================================================================
Rick McCarty              "I'm not a Twin Peaks fan, but I play one on TV."
mccarty@aaet.csc.ti.com                       :-)~(-:
===========================================================================

There was someone killed that had a letter under the nail...

Jacques!


Theresa Banks   T
Laura PalmerR
Jacques RenaultE  <-- Yet to be found...but I'm sure its there!
Ronnette Pulaski B
Maddie FergusonO

Someone else has to die!  
The letter R must be placed for BOB to laugh at the world at not
being able to understand such obvious clues as to his identities!

Scott Frost suggested it might be a good idea to solicit
a write-in campaign to Bob Iger at ABC.  They're concerned
about their ratings, and much of the ratings problem is
probably due to Peaks' time slot.  The problem of course
is that if the ratings get too bad, Bob (or BOB?) could
murder Twin Peaks.

So if there are really something like 25,000 readers of
this newsgroup, it might make an impression if a few thousand
of them write to Bob Iger saying something like "I want to see
Twin Peaks, but 10 p.m. Saturday is tough -- how about moving
it to some more convenient time?"

BTW, if someone who has the address for Bob Iger
at ABC could post it I'd appreciate it...  can't
find it right now in my own files of such stuff.


------------------
Paul Raveling
Raveling@Unify.com

I think a great deal of the speculation that goes on here regarding 
the rules of engagement between owls and men  is exactly the 
sort of thing that made the middle ages such a swell time in human
history. And exactly why a number of TPs fans found the current 
slide toward hocus-pocus so depressing. Science may not do a lot for
the human spirit but it at least gives good accounting.

-- Jeff Davis davis@keats.ca.uky.edu Nobody knows, from sea to shining sea, why we are having all this trouble with our republic.

I think that Leland as a boy destroyed BOB's house with BOB in it 
while he was playing with matches. BOB was probably molesting the 
boy Leland so maybe Leland burned BOB in self defense. BOB's angry 
spirit has been tormenting Leland ever since. Remember the matches 
that Leland dropped in the station house when he went to say that 
he knew the man in the picture? He remembered BOB as an old neighbor
of his, but the police can't find any record  of a Robert Robertson 
in the house next to the one Leland spent time in as a child - that's 
because BOB's house was destroyed by fire. Of course, Leland has
supressed all this.

Did anybody notice that Norma's diner is named "RR" - BOB's initials?

In article <17256@shlump.nac.dec.com> boyajian@ruby.dec.com (Cisco's Buddy) writes:
> >I disagree. If a man wants to screw anything that moves, people think its
> >natural -- "He's just sowing his wild oats."

A lot of people say this, but I don't buy it.  I can think of many examples of
this sort of character in moives and books and I can't think of a single recent
one where it is considered positive behavior.   When guys stand on the street
corner wistling at every woman that walks by, we don't say there are sowing
their oats, we say they are assholes.

> >So she wants to do it on the floor with James? So what?

On the floor?  In a Jail?  Through the bars?  When anyone could just walk in?
None of thes things seem a little strange to you?  I don't know, maybe we have
a different idea of what constitutes weird sexual behavior.

> >} Just as, if James had made this suggestion to Donna we would call him
> >} (oh, I don't know), an asshole.
> >Yeah, but no one would think he was deviant because of it.

Sure we would. Well, maybe not devient. But I never said that.  My point is 
that we would not view what he was doing as a positive thing, just as some of
us don't consider Donna's behavior as a positive thing.
 
Michael



Michael Kaufman  | I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships
  kaufman        | on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter
   @eecs.nwu.edu | in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All these moments will
                 | be lost in time - like tears in rain. Time to die.

Haven't people heard the saying 'Bob's your Uncle'?
I guess this is true for Maddy ;-)

-- (------------------------------------------------------------------------) ( Bernie Wieser, wieser@cpsc.ucalgary.ca, BSWieser@uncamult.BITNET ) ( 4rth Year Dbl.Mgr Cpsc Clhc University of Calgary | ) ( S/H Developer Dept. of Psychology, " " " \|/ )

jbuck@galileo.berkeley.edu (Joe Buck) writes:

> >In article <1990Nov14.141633.1106@lokkur.dexter.mi.us>, scs@lokkur.dexter.mi.us (Steve Simmons) writes:
> >|> Sorry, but you're wrong.  In the scene with the giant after Cooper was
> >|> shot, the giant reaches down and removes Coopers ring.  It is clear
> >|> from that it is possible for the possessing spirits to affect the
> >|> physical world without requiring a host.  Therefore there is no
> >|> requirement that Bob possessed anyone else in order to attack Ronette.

> >While I believe that Bob exclusively possesses Leland (and that "possession"
> >may not even be the right word to describe their link) I don't think this
> >proves anything.  What if giant's host is the world's most decrepit room
> >service waiter (WMDRSW)?  If so, the giant has a body, the WMDRSW, and
> >can use it to remove Cooper's ring.

While I agree that the Giant uses WMDRSW as a host (whew! that's harder to
type than Senor Drool Cup), things have been pretty consistant about the
appearances of the Giant and all inhabiting spirits.  As spirits, they
appear and disappear at will.  But their hosts are bound by the physical
limitations.  The Giant materialized directly in Coopers room and vanished
in the same way.  Bob has come and gone in a similar fashion.  But Leland
and WMDRSW have never been observed to materialize/dematerialize.  So I still
think the Giant has the ring, not WMDRSW.

Just for the record, I think Leland killed Renault while Bob killed Laura
and Maddy (if she's dead).  Leland remembered and admitted to killing
Renault, thinking he was avenging Laura's death.  Clearly he does not
remember what Bob does, and so does not recall kill Laura.  Shallow cuts
and exacto blades.  Brrr...
-- "When your neighbour loses his job, it's a slowdown; when you lose your own job, it's a recession; when an economist loses his job it's a depression." -- "Six Ways To Define A Recession", The Economist, Nov. 3 1990.

X-NEWS: si194b:: alt.tv.twin-peaks: 
7042Path: lll-winken!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!
caen!ox.com!lokkur!scs
From: scs@lokkur.dexter.mi.us (Steve Simmons)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: Re: Odd Things
Message-ID: <1990Nov13.023511.19280@lokkur.dexter.mi.us>
Date: 13 Nov 90 02:35:11 GMT
References: <8824@darkstar.ucsc.edu>
Organization: Inland Sea
Lines: 15

scs@lokkur.dexter.mi.us answers the question of why the sailors were in TP:

> > Hate to do it folks, but there's a perfectly rational reason.  The US
> > Navy maintains a nuclear reactor at a training facility in Idaho.  Given
> > the indeterminate location of Twin Peaks, it's not at all unlikely
> > they'd schedule a social/work outing at a 'nearby' resort town.
 
Unfortunately, the reactor training facility is located in Idaho Falls, Idaho. 
If we accept that Twin Peaks is 12 miles from the Canadian border (from Cooper)
then Twin Peaks is ~100 miles closer to the ocean than it is to Idaho Falls,
and Twin Peaks is definately not a 'nearby' resort town to Idaho Falls.  Too
bad 8^( I liked this idea.

________________________________________________________________________________
"Diane...I am upside-down"

M.J.BrinkmanBRINKMAN@EDSEQ1.LLNL.GOV

The Log Lady said there were "owls" (plural) at the roadhouse.  I'm pretty
sure who one of them was, but can't figure the other(s).  For the record,
here's my opinions of hosts and their spirits:

  Host      Spirit
    ================    =================
    Leland PalmerBOB
    Phillip GerardMike
    Sr. Drool CupThe Giant
    Harold SmithThe Boy Magician

Sr. Drool Cup was at the road house, Harold is dead, Leland is busy, Mike
is presumably unconcious somewhere.  So who was the other one at the Road
House?
-- "When your neighbour loses his job, it's a slowdown; when you lose your own job, it's a recession; when an economist loses his job it's a depression." -- "Six Ways To Define A Recession", The Economist, Nov. 3 1990.

Jon.Webb@CS.CMU.EDU writes:

> >Cooper really is in over his head, as his boss suggested.  I think this
> >is one of the meanings of his expression in the last scene in episode 14.
 [[ list of gaffes deleted ]]

While I agree that Cooper arrested Ben in the mistaken thought that he
killed Laura, he did *not* arrest him for murder.  We don't see the
booking, but I'd assume he was arrested because he refused to co-operate
in a murder investigation ("I'm going out for a sandwitch.") and gave
false statements about same (did not reveal his personal and 'professional'
relationship with Laura).

In deep yes, over his head, no.
-- "When your neighbour loses his job, it's a slowdown; when you lose your own job, it's a recession; when an economist loses his job it's a depression." -- "Six Ways To Define A Recession", The Economist, Nov. 3 1990.

Maybe the OAM/MIKE was reacting to Ben entering into the room, not
because BOB was in Ben, but because Ben has had contact with
BOB. The privous episode the OAM/MIKE gave the clue about the Great
Northern, many think that he was referring to Leland, since he
was there; I believe this to be the case. Now Ben that night
was in the presence of Leland, and if BOB was in Leland, then
he would have got into some contact with BOB. Ben did touch 
Leland, and thus might have picked up something from this--something
only intoned OAM/MIKE would be able to pick up. Ben is a sleeze
but has no connection to BOB; he just got in contact with a Leland/BOB
and the traces of BOB remained on him, and were picked up by MIKE.

Also, I thought it was interesting on the 11/3 episode the scene
with Leland and Ben. Leland seemed to be a pretty unscruplous lawyor;
after he told Ben of his plan concerning the Ghost Wood deal Ben
came over to give him a hug, but Leland pushed him away; this
did not appear to me like the dancing Leland. I took this as a
sign that BOB was in him at this point. Then later when he did
his lounge lizard routine he grabbed Ben in a dancing manner, more
like his demented self.

====================================================================
#You might want to child proof  ###   Sally A. Wilson
#those electric sockets.        ###   sally@mica.berkeley.edu
====================================================================

Excerpts from netnews.alt.tv.twin-peaks: 14-Nov-90 Re: Bob and multiple
hosts .. Steve Simmons@lokkur.dex (1841)

> > Sorry, but you're wrong.  In the scene with the giant after Cooper was
> > shot, the giant reaches down and removes Coopers ring.  It is clear
> > from that it is possible for the possessing spirits to affect the
physical world without requiring a host.

Sorry, but you're wrong.  It is not "clear" that spirits don't need
hosts to affect the physical world.  When Cooper saw the Giant, he may
have been seeing the spirit face of the Giant's human host, possibly the
Waiter (Senor Droolcup).  Note that BOB affected Maddy (and how!) even
though he's a spirit; that's because his human host, Leland, was present.

______________                  _____________________________
Bob Glickstein                | Internet: bobg@andrew.cmu.edu
Information Technology Center | Bitnet:   bobg%andrew@cmuccvma.bitnet
Carnegie Mellon University    | UUCP:     ...!harvard!andrew.cmu.edu!bobg
Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890    |
(412) 268-6743                | Sinners can repent, but stupid is forever

In article <1990Nov13.231434.8248@athena.mit.edu> rlcarr@athena.mit.edu (Richard L. Carreiro) writes:
}What did the *OAM* say as he was convulsing in the Great Northern.
}
}I could have sworn I heard "I'm being attacked!"

I'm almost certain it was "I've fallen, and I can't get up!"

What does this mean?


-- Lance T. Franklin +----------------------------------------------+ (ltf@ncmicro.lonestar.org) | "You want I should bop you with this here | NC Microproducts, Inc. | Lollipop?!?" The Fat Fury | Richardson, Texas +----------------------------------------------+

Agent Cooper gets a lot of clues, but most of them haven't really been any
help in solving the crime -- usually we don't understand the clue until
after the investigation turns up a fact anyway, it makes the show more fun
but doesn't speed the investigation.  Here is my inventory of supernaturally-
obtained clues -- this is off the top of my head, you guys can add to it.

HITTING BOTTLE WHEN DR. JACOBI'S NAME WAS CALLED -- didn't lead anywhere.

BREAKING BOTTLE WHEN LEO JOHNSON'S NAME WAS CALLED -- didn't really lead
anywhere, except to a visit and the now-classic exchange,
    COOPER:  Did you know Laura Palmer?
    LEO:  No.
    COOPER:  How long did you know her?
At one point, when talking to Diane, Cooper referred to Leo as "the person
I think is responsible for Laura Palmer's murder", so if anything this clue
was counter-productive.

MIKE: "...FIRE WALK WITH ME..." hasn't really led anywhere, but does establish
that MIKE knows things the general public might not know about the murder.

MIKE: "...CONVENIENCE STORE.  WE LIVED ABOVE ONE." was true of Bob Lydecker's
(not BOB'S) office.  No help, really (they found Waldo by other means).

BOB: "YOU MAY THINK I'VE GONE INSANE, BUT I PROMISE YOU I WILL KILL AGAIN."
fulfilled, but Cooper did nothing with it.

RED DRAPES -- this was the one helpful clue.  Cooper recognized the drapes
in a photo of Jacques' cabin -- they would surely have gone there sooner or
later, but with this clue it was sooner.

MFAP: "THAT GUM YOU LIKE IS GOING TO COME BACK IN STYLE." -- As far as I can
remember, this has no reference to anything, anytime, ever.  (Did I miss
something?)

MFAP: "DOESN'T SHE LOOK ALMOST EXACTLY LIKE LAURA PALMER" -- true but so what?

MFAP: "SHE'S FULL OF SECRETS" -- true but so what?

DREAM LAURA: "SOMETIMES MY ARMS BEND BACK" -- revealed by ordinary 
investigation.

GIANT: "A MAN IN A SMILING BAG" -- Seen during ordinary investigation.

GIANT: "THE OWLS ARE NOT WHAT THEY SEEM" -- A lot has been made of this, but
nothing has come of it.

GIANT: "HE POINTS WITHOUT CHEMICALS" -- Led to the arrest of Benjamin, which
may or may not have been a step in the right direction.

LL: "THERE ARE OWLS IN THE ROADHOUSE"; GIANT: "IT'S HAPPENING AGAIN." -- yes
but Cooper doesn't know where, so doesn't seem to be moving to stop it.

Imagine if you will, Twin Peaks one year after Laura's murder.  At the rate
we're going ( < 1 day per episode) this will take about 400 episodes, or
20 seasons.  Of course by then the actors playing high school students will
be well into their 40s, but they're all well into their 20s now and no one
complains....

DALE COOPER - is retired from the FBI, and running a Tibetan souvenir shop
for pocket money -- the real family income comes from his wife,

AUDREY COOPER - who is running the family business with her Uncle JERRY, 
what with BENJAMIN having been jailed for a variety of felonies committed
across state and national boundaries.  (He'll go to jail during the 1996
season, I predict.)  Occasionally the Coopers play bridge with their best
friends,

HARRY and JOSIE TRUMAN -- Harry is still unaware of Josie's various behind-
the-scenes felonies, and appears happy.  He is mayor of Twin Peaks, having
left the Sherriff's office in the capable hands of

ANDY - who has become quite the ladies' man, breaking the heart of

-- well, I could go on and on.  Anyone else want to make some predictions?
You won't have to eat crow until 2010 or so.

Bob

eboneste@BBN.COM (Liz Bonesteel) writes:
> >I'm glad, because I wasn't.  Truth be told, there are lots of
> >helpless, frustrating people out there.  Lots of them are women.  But
> >a lot of the women I know are strong, self-reliant people, and I just
> >don't see them well represented on this show.  (And yes, I know it's
> >unrealistic to really expect it; but I *like* this show, and I expect
> >unusual things from this show.  I'd like it better if I found the
> >women to be as representative of the general population as the men
> >are.)

I don't think you are being fair to the women on the show.  Who do
you consider a "weak, dependant" (to invert your phrase) female?  Shelley,
perhaps, but she is a battered wife and therefore has an excuse.  Maybe the
peripheral women, such as Laura's mom, Bobby's mom, Donna's mom... are you
beginning to see the pattern there?  The women who play the roles of
"traditional family valued" women may be dependant, perhaps even weak, but
that's almost part of their job description as old-fashioned mothers.

Audrey, Donna, Norma, even Laura can certainly be considered
"strong".   Conversely, Bobby, Mike, Leo, and Andy are all "weak".

> >Perhaps the problem here is that the attitude expressed is one of my
> >personal pet peeves: men who claim that women are incomprehensible.
> >There are a lot of them.  They piss me off.  

The problem is that a lot of women really are incomprehensible to a
lot of men.  In our society, at least, women have a different set of
background experiences and expectations.  Physical differences drive some
of these cultural differences, and there is even a whole different set of
chemicals inside a woman than in a man.  Put all that together, and it
seems unreasonable to say that everything a given woman does and feels is
going to be as easy to understand if you are male as if you are female.
The reverse should logically be true, of course.

I don't mean to piss you off.  I think its a weak excuse, myself.
I'm simply claiming that men are at a disadvantage when trying to figure
out what women feel, and visa versa.  This in no way justifies dismissing
women as hopelessly silly just because you don't "get" them.  On the other
hand, I think its understandable why some men choose to just give up and
not try very hard to be fair.  That reaction is an indication of a personal
flaw, but not an uncommon or outrageous one.

> >Perhaps my reaction was
> >an overreaction because of that; but I don't really see any change or
> >clarification of this attitude in subsequent episodes.  Take Lucy, for
> >example.  To those of us who know what's going on in her life, her
> >behavior makes perfect sense.  But this gang doesn't even *try* to
> >understand; they just shrug their shoulders and say "Women!"

I am not convinced its merely a dismissal of Lucy As Woman; I think
its at least partially a dismissal of Lucy As A Somewhat Flighty Person.
At least that's how she appears a lot of the time.  That may not be the
real Lucy, but then why does she act that way?  Why didn't she just tell
Andy she was pregnant before being coerced into it?  Maybe there is a good
explanation, but it may not be easily recognizable by the men.  Another
indication of the problem in inter-sex communication.

>> >>It doesn't take spine to go undercover as a hooker or
>> >>to come up with the plan to swipe the diary from a man who might
>> >>be crazy?  Come on, Liz.
> >
> >And every single time they've tried to do something daring they've
> >been RESCUED.  Just once, I'd like to see a female character
> >(anywhere!) get herself out of a jam.

Two words: Catherine Martel.

Besides, even Truman and Cooper had to be rescued by Hawk.
-- Tim Shippert shippert@tybalt.caltech.edu Q: What is the difference between "The Twilight Zone" and "Silver Spoons"? A: "The Twilight Zone" only _occasionally_ featured the adventures of hideous mutants. -D. Letterman

In article <11093@pt.cs.cmu.edu> cwk@ORCRIST.GANDALF.CS.CMU.EDU (Charles Krueger) writes:
> >I went back over the Leland/BOB/Sara/Maddy scene frame by frame, and it is
> >clear that Leland-BOB is not trying to kill Maddy, but rather he is giving
> >her CPR!  Wow!  Also, just before Maddy comes down the stairs you can see
> >Leland-BOB putting something on his hands.  I went over this frame by
> >frame 30 or 40 times, and it appears that he is putting on handcuffs!  Wow!

I don't know of any CPR technique that includes bashing someone into a wall.
Also, he's not putting on handcuffs; he putting on rubber gloves.

-- ====================================================================== | Germaine A. L'Eveque germaine@cs.columbia.edu (212) 854-8112 | | Academic Records Administrator, Computer Science Department | | Columbia University, 450-D Com.Sci.Bldg., New York, NY 10027 |

> > ..., what was the tape in the shoe anyway? The lead to the next plot?

Well, there's this guy I ride to work with, and he's ALWAYS right in 
predicting what's going to happen next (I don't know how).  Anyway, he
remembers Leo having a phone call with Ben Horn, during which Ben instructs
Leo to torch the mill.  Leo probably recorded it on that answering machine
tape for blackmail purposes.

In article <27416874.8471@orion.oac.uci.edu> dkrause@orion.oac.uci.edu (Doug Krause) writes:
> >
> >In Episode 1 Cooper says to Diane that Twin Peaks is 5 miles south of the
> >Canadian border and 12 miles east of the *state* border.  No state speci-
> >fied at that time.

I'm confused.  The only border it could be east of is the *west* border, i.e. 
Puget Sound.  This would place it darn near next to Seattle.  But all the 
geographical discussion has put Twin Peaks in *Eastern* Washingon.  If it were 
in Western Washington, it would explain fog horns and sailors in various epi-
sodes.  But many other things would not make sense, such as Josie's shopping 
trip to Seattle the night of the fire, which would then only be a 1/2 hour 
drive!

Could Cooper have said 12 miles *west* of the state border?

In article <1990Nov14.211429.7413@cbnewsk.att.com> shy@cbnewsk.att.com (susan.hallander) writes:
> >
> >I think that Leland as a boy destroyed BOB's house with BOB in it 
> >while he was playing with matches. BOB was probably molesting the 
> >boy Leland so maybe Leland burned BOB in self defense. BOB's angry 
> >spirit has been tormenting Leland ever since.

Alright!  A sane and reasonable theory about what happened 40 years
ago.  I too have been wondering about this obsession with fire and
the recurring burning smell and how that all relates to some
mysterious event from 40 years ago.  I also get the impression
that BOB's past involves a fire tragedy.

-- Scott Amspoker | Basis International, Albuquerque, NM | "I'm going out for a sandwich" (505) 345-5232 | - Ben unmvax.cs.unm.edu!bbx!bbxsda!scott |

My wife and I were watching the Nov 10 episode, and during the last fifteen
minutes, before Leland/Bob did their thing, when the horse showed up in the
Palmer living room, my wife turned to me and asked:

"Does this mean that MR. ED killed Laura?"

I guess you had to be there, but I was sure laughing hard.

George Lambert

> >}What did the *OAM* say as he was convulsing in the Great Northern.
> >}I could have sworn I heard "I'm being attacked!"
> >I'm almost certain it was "I've fallen, and I can't get up!"

According to the closed caption decoder, he said either "My boot has a
solitary sole," or possibly "The Ted Danson cutout wears a tuxedo."

<whew> I feel like I deserve a gold star.  :-)  'Just skimmed some 350
piled-up articles in this newsgroup to make sure that no one had said
this yet:

Sarah Palmer has a spinal injury.  She does not (to this physician)
appear drugged, psychologically overcome, unconscious, or any of the 
other vague states that have been suggested.  She appears as alert
and functional as anyone *could* appear, when they have severe spinal
injury ("broken back") which has resulted in the paralysis of their
whole lower body.  Sarah is crawling down the stairs because she's
half-paralyzed.  You can clearly see her "dead" legs dragging after
her in one overhead shot.

--Fiona Oceanstar

In article <kbENIDS00jukBlcGZc@cs.cmu.edu> Jon.Webb@CS.CMU.EDU writes:
> >I don't know if anyone's mentioned that Austin Jack Lynch's statement in
> >French about being a lonely soul matched Harold Smith's exactly.  

Yes it was mentioned; not made too much fuss over since it lies in the
category we call "too ****ing obvious to make much fuss over" :-)

The one advantage is that now we're triple sure of the wording (a tip
o'the hat to whoever slew me with the "hovercraft full of eels"
translation!!) :-) :-)

> >                                                                  This
> >implies that Harold was killed by the magician next door; he didn't
> >commit suicide out of depression at being invaded by Donna.  

Not necessarily so.  It seems more likely to me that Kid KreamKorn was
klairvoyant enough in his kreepy way to foreshadow Smith's final words
for us.

-- Never believe anything until it has been [__ Tom Neff officially denied. -- Claud Cockburn ] tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM

In article <129@3cpu.UUCP> Mike Miller writes:

> >I really think its past time for them to get rid of the BOB plotline.  
> > 
> >There seem to be plenty of other plots going, so why do they keep dragging this
> >out?

I believe you have misunderstood the writers' intentions.  

We all have a dark side that we usually keep in control.  When we are out
driving and another driver cuts us off, what is our reaction?  We get mad
and secretly wish that we could run the other driver off the road or 
shoot him with a gun.  Rarely do we act on these violent urges, instead
settling for honking the horn or giving the finger.  We have emotional
controls that restrain these base urges.  What would happen if these
emotional controls were removed?  What would happen if the Freudian 
superego no longer controlled the Freudian id?  I believe BOB is the
means by which the Twin Peaks writers have chosen to examine this question.

Anyone who has seen the classic science fiction film Forbidden Planet
should recognize BOB.  The relation between the alien mind machine and 
Dr. Morpheus is similar to that between BOB and his host.  Both the alien
device and BOB amplify the emotions and remove the emotional controls of
the user or the host, allowing the monsters in the id to come to the
surface.  In Forbidden Planet, the invisible energy creature brought to
life by the alien device carried out Morpheus' dark, suppressed urges,
whereas in Twin Peaks, the host carries out the vile acts himself.  The
question of who or what is BOB, while interesting, is unimportant to
understanding Twin Peaks.  What is important is understanding BOB's
effect on his host.

Ann Hodgins has an inkling of what's going on.  In article
<1990Nov13.170947.24112@watserv1.waterloo.edu> she writes:

> >There seems to be a natural connection between Bob and Lelland and I
> >am tempted to call Bob merely Lelland's repressed feelings.

> >                                                  It adds to my impression
> >that Leland and Bob are not really separate because the motive
> >for Maddy's killing seem to be to express Lelland's real reaction to
> >Maddy's leaving not Bob's reaction. Lelland pretended to be mature and
> >adult about Maddy's personal decision to leave but actually he seems to
> >have felt resentment and abandonment and is petulant about it, angry at
> >Maddy.
> >The way the murder went it seems that the motive was to punish Maddy severely
> >for abandonment not to relish her fear.

BOB is not Leland's repressed feelings, per se, but is the key that 
releases Leland's repressed feelings.  When BOB inhabits Leland, BOB is
somehow able to release his id, amplify his emotions, and induce him to
act on his base urges.  Hence, Leland/BOB sends Maddy on a one-way trip
to Missoula.  What we are seeing is the dark side of Leland's being--the
dark side that we all possess.  

I suspect that this not the first time Leland has hosted BOB.  There
have been strong hints that Leland molested Laura or engaged in incest
(for example, the funeral scene with Leland on Laura's coffin and
Cooper's reading from the secret diary).  Incestuous yearnings are base 
feelings that are normally suppressed--the social and perhaps instinctual
taboos against incest are among the strongest.  In normal circumstances a
father, Leland for example, would not act out these base urges, but a
father whose emotional controls had been removed might.

I believe the same thing has occurred with Ben.  It is not uncommon for 
an adult man, Ben in this case, to be sexually attracted to (or even fall
in love with) under-age girls and to entertain brief thoughts of illicit
sex.  Under normal circumstances a man, including Ben, would not act on
those urges and would quickly dismiss such thoughts.  If BOB were to have
inhabited Ben (I believe the purpose of the scene with MIKE in the hotel
lobby was to establish that), then BOB would have removed Ben's emotional
restraints, freeing Ben to act on his primal urges.  Ben's purchase of
One-Eyed Jacks is probably a consequence of this.

Recall that BOB feeds on fear and the pleasures.  These are the very
things that evoke the strongest urges in us--urges that we continually
struggle to control.  The writers gave us a character with strong,
suppressed sexual urges, Ben, and one with strong, suppressed violent
urges, Leland.  Then they introduced a means by which those characters
could act on these base, primal urges, BOB.  The result, Twin Peaks, is
a window through which we can see the dark side of our souls.

In summary, BOB is a powerful tool allowing the writers and audience to
view the darkest recesses of the many characters' (and our) souls.  It
is unlikely that the writers will discard BOB in the near future.

Mike Carlin

Concerning the song, "What a Wonderful World":

In the pilot episode, a bunch of bikers are sitting at a table
in the Roadhouse.  When Mike and Bobby come in, Joey Paulsen
says "Scotty...Mutt and Jeff just crawled in."  Scotty looks,
turns back, and says "Oh, what a wonderful world."

I had to wait 13 more episodes, but I *knew* I'd hear that
again!

In article <1202@news.chips.com> bmay@news.UUCP (Brad May) writes:
> >In article <27416874.8471@orion.oac.uci.edu> dkrause@orion.oac.uci.edu (Doug Krause) writes:
>> >>
>> >>In Episode 1 Cooper says to Diane that Twin Peaks is 5 miles south of the
>> >>Canadian border and 12 miles east of the *state* border.  No state speci-
>> >>fied at that time.
> >
> >I'm confused.  The only border it could be east of is the *west* border, i.e. 
> >Puget Sound.  This would place it darn near next to Seattle.  But all the 
> >geographical discussion has put Twin Peaks in *Eastern* Washingon.  If it were 
> >in Western Washington, it would explain fog horns and sailors in various epi-
> >sodes.  But many other things would not make sense, such as Josie's shopping 
> >trip to Seattle the night of the fire, which would then only be a 1/2 hour 
> >drive!
> >
> >Could Cooper have said 12 miles *west* of the state border?


Don't take TP's geography so literally.  It seems to me that Lynch and
Frost have dispensed with all of Eastern Washington and moved the
Cascade Range over to the Idaho border.  As most people know by now, the
real TP (Snoqualmie/North Bend) is in the western foothills of the
Cascades, about 1.5h drive from Seattle (on I-90).  The real Eastern
Washington looks very little like TP!

I'm glad that L&F have altered the geography.  There are enough people
here in the Puget Sound region who are offended in some way about how
the region is portrayed in the show.  Making the geography even more
realistic would probably make them even more upset.

On the other hand, Spokane has been removed from the face of this
fictional Earth - and real Eastern Washington people are probably not
amused!

-----

"I would like to climb a tall hill - not too tall -  sit in the cool
grass - not too cool - and feel the sun on my face."  - Agent Cooper

In article <39543@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU>, jbuck@galileo.berkeley.edu (Joe
Buck) writes:
> > 
> > Just the same, Lynch and Frost are portraying a small logging town
> > here.  Is anyone really asking that he portray things that do not
> > exist in such towns in the interest of not offending anyone?  If TP
> > were an absolutely realistic portrayal of such places we'd see a lot
> > MORE sexism portrayed.

Precisely.

My wife frequently comments that in terms of sexism,
whether subtle or blatant, moving from L.A. to Sacramento
was like moving back 10 years in time.  Moving to Twin Peaks
would probably be like moving back 30 or 40 years.


------------------
Paul Raveling
Raveling@Unify.com

In article <17258@shlump.nac.dec.com> boyajian@ruby.dec.com (Cisco's Buddy) writes:
> >In article <1990Nov13.235641.6985@agate.berkeley.edu>, sally@eris.berkeley.edu (S. A. Wilson) writes...
> >
> >} There was that scene prior to this when Dr. Hayward ased the nurse
> >} at Jacoby was on. It was implied that the food was to blame fore his
> >} stranger than ever actions.
> >
> >I hardly think that's evidence of anything. It was part of an ongoing
> >joke throughout the episode about hospital food.
> >
> >-- 
> >
> >"Good thing you guys can't keep a secret."
> >
> >--- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA)
> >UUCP:...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian
> >ARPA:boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM


You are probably right about that. Yet, it still could
be possible about Jacoby being the key. For I also mentioned
that under hypnosis he mentioned the strange oder. Now if
he smelt the oder both while he was attacked and Jacques was
murder than he is pointing to the host body, ie Leland. And
it was without chemicals....


====================================================================
#You might want to child proof  ###   Sally A. Wilson
#those electric sockets.        ###   sally@mica.berkeley.edu
====================================================================

>> >>In article <27416874.8471@orion.oac.uci.edu> dkrause@orion.oac.uci.edu (Doug Krause) writes:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>In Episode 1 Cooper says to Diane that Twin Peaks is 5 miles south of the
>>> >>>Canadian border and 12 miles east of the *state* border.

I'm pretty sure Cooper had said "12 miles west".  I'll check the tape tonight.

- Mark

In article <2410@byron.ed.ac.uk> lorraine@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Lorraine Leddy) writes:
> >In the fourth episode of TP last night we saw Laura Palmer's funeral...
> >[...]
> >Can someone out there answer me one question? Why did Leo marry his
> >wife(can't remember her name!)? All he ever does is scream abuse at her
> >or beat her up! And what happened to the shirt with the blood on it
> >she(the wife) found in Leo's bag!

Well, that's two questions.  Get used to the show.  Things will
get answered in due time.  They haven't forgotten about Leo's
shirt.  (You don't want us to ruin it now, do you?)

> >Also on the night L was killed Leo said that he was in Canada(Or
> >somwhere far away) and if you remember correctly he vcouldn't have been
> >as Bobby and his wife(What is her name???!!!) came back to her home the
> >morning Laura's body was found to find Leo's truck....Much to there
> >amazement!!!

Canada is only a few miles away.  However, Leo is not one to tell
the truth.

> >What gives with Norma and Ed?
> >[other questions about plot and characters deleted]

All of those questions eventually get answered.  If you really want
someone to tell you now, perhaps they'll e-mail to you.

-- Scott Amspoker | Basis International, Albuquerque, NM | "I'm going out for a sandwich" (505) 345-5232 | - Ben unmvax.cs.unm.edu!bbx!bbxsda!scott |

I have to admit to being a new follower of this conference -- but I've
been watching TP since the beginning with avid interest, and I have some
things to add.  If they've been said/asked before, please forgive.

1)  I don't think we can assume that BOB is closely tied either to the
Great Northern or to the woods.  MIKE informed Cooper in his dream that
they at one time lived above a convenience store, and remember that
Teresa Banks was killed at some distance from TP.  Moreover, MIKE
apparently roams free, as he was responsible for Gerard's loss of an arm
again at some distance from TP.

2)  How is it that BOB's victims see BOB's face, but MIKE shows only the
face of Philip Gerard?  Is it possible that we've seen MIKE's "other"
appearance (i.e., the dwarf, the giant, the horse)?

3)  Recall the piece of paper in the railroad car: "Fire walk with me."
Although the evidence suggests BOB is fascinated with fire, it is only
from MIKE's lips that we've heard the phrase.  Was MIKE at the railroad
car, either in Gerard's body or in someone else's (say, Ronette's)?
Could MIKE have been attempting to kill BOB by killing his then-host,
Laura?  No-one has asked MIKE about Laura's murder; all Cooper seems
interested in is BOB, BOB, BOB.

4)  Just who/what are the "owls" that Margaret, the Giant and Major
Briggs have referred to?  They're not what they seem, sometimes they're
big, they're at the Roadhouse.  My girlfriend suggests this to be a
generic term for the various supernatural types we've met; I have
problems with this explanation, but she was dead on about Piper Laurie
being the Japanese businessman, so who am I to argue.  And hey, who were
all those Navy swabs and what were they doing at the Great Northern and
the Roadhouse?  Some connection with Major Briggs' classified work?

5)  Current favorite silly theory: MIKE and BOB are Mike and Bobby
Brady, they killed Laura and tried to do Ronette because they looked so
much like Marsha and Jan, and the letters are going to spell out "Robert
Reed."

6)  Are we all taking this just a wee bit too seriously?  No, I thought
not.

                                lrubinow

  So the news is out and everybody's talking.

  Some clues you seemed to miss:

  When Leland went into the Sherrif's office to tell them that he had seen
Bob before, did any of you notice how *accurately* he tossed that match?

  Leland was fine and in control of himself -in fact, he was the one supporting
Sarah- until Sarah saw Bob watching her (while hugging Donna) and Maddy
arrived.

  Maddy was in no real danger until she decided to leave. Bob was watching 
her, yes, but wasn't planning to move on her until people would think she was
missing because she had gone home...

  I forgot where Leland said that house was, or what the name of the lake was,
but did any of you catch his reference to Maddy about "wouldn't it be nice if
this was all just another vacation.." TO THAT VERY PLACE????

  Postulation: Laura and Maddy may both have been abused by Leland. Maybe they
were even really sisters in stead of cousins. Odd to notice that Maddy already
had an apartment while Laura was still in high school, but supposedly they 
were the same age. Did Theresa Banks vacation at that lake too? Or maybe even
live in the vicinity? Possibly Leland killed Jaque because he was afraid that
J. had really NOT been unconscious when he took the girls to the train car.
I also wonder if Leo has been so reluctant to talk (before the coma, that is)
because Leland "caught" him with Laura and has been threatening him ever since.

  What is Hank doing with a police badge?

  Oh well. I probably haven't said anything new but I did NOT have time to read
the reams and reams of STUFF people wrote here.

Good Night, loves.

Deliver the Message.

In article <10987@milton.u.washington.edu> twain@blake.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin) writes:
> >The giant and the waiter from the Great Northern are owls, representing 
> >the spirit world. 
> >
> >Margaret says, "The owls are at the roadhouse."  As far as I'm concerned, 
> >this doesn't mean any ordinary inhabitant of the town of Twin Peaks, 
> >such as Bobby, Donna, or James, but a special guest appearance of the 
> >owls, the spiritual guardians of the woods. 

The problem with this is that Sen~or Droolcup actually *is* an ordinary
inhabitant of Twin Peaks, just like Bobby or Donna.  We know this
because he was at his Great Northern job and available for Albert to
interrogate after the wacky encounter opening this season's premiere.
Real owls like Bob or the Giant are manifestations that appear and
disappear magically.

I have Droolcup down as another endearing psychic grotesque like
Margaret; as opposed to a plain grotesque like Nadine or this... Dick.

-- Television is a medium because anything /+\ Tom Neff well done is rare. -- Fred Allen \-/ tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM

>>> >>>Margaret says, "The owls are at the roadhouse."  As far as I'm concerned,
>>> >>>this doesn't mean any ordinary inhabitant of the town of Twin Peaks,
>>> >>>such as Bobby, Donna, or James, but a special guest appearance of the
>>> >>>owls, the spiritual guardians of the woods.
> >
>> >>The problem with this is that Sen~or Droolcup actually *is* an ordinary
>> >>inhabitant of Twin Peaks, just like Bobby or Donna.
> >
> >Don't forget that Leland is just an "ordinary inhabitant of Twin Peaks"
> >too, yet BOB inhabits him.  My guess is that Droolcup is a host for
> >the giant who is an owl.

I have no problem with Droolcup being the human host for our friendly
Giant, only with the previous suggestion that 'Cup himself is some kind
of apparition, which he's not.

Also *if* there were more kinds of spirits than just the owls, then I
would nominate the Giant as one example of a non-owl spirit.  A long
time ago someone suggested that he was a Douglas fir; I still kind of
like that idea.  That way owls might just be evil spirits, and when the
Giant says 'The owls are not what they seem' he is talking about someone
other himself, which is how it sounds.

In article <1990Nov15.002003.28140@rice.edu> fi@whittaker.rice.edu (Fiona Oceanstar) writes:
> >
> >Sarah Palmer has a spinal injury.  She does not (to this physician)
> >appear drugged, psychologically overcome, unconscious, or any of the 
> >other vague states that have been suggested.  She appears as alert
> >and functional as anyone *could* appear, when they have severe spinal
> >injury ("broken back") which has resulted in the paralysis of their
> >whole lower body.  Sarah is crawling down the stairs because she's
> >half-paralyzed.  You can clearly see her "dead" legs dragging after
> >her in one overhead shot.
> >
> >--Fiona Oceanstar


This feels right to me, too, though I'm no physician. I do think she
passes out after seeing the white horse, as I don't remember any sign
of consciousness from here during the attack on Maddy. 

But here's the interesting question: does this mean we will see Sara
in a wheelchair next episode, just like Donna's mother? We never did
get an explanation for that...

Still shivering,
Barry Eynon
--
Barry Eynon
barry@playfair.stanford.edu

In article <2885.2741c3b0@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu> lklaber@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu writes:
> >  Some clues you seemed to miss:

What makes them "clues"?

> >  When Leland went into the Sherrif's office to tell them that he had seen
> >Bob before, did any of you notice how *accurately* he tossed that
match?

Yep.  But after it was noticed, what else was there to say about it?

> >Leland was fine and in control of himself -in fact, he was the one supporting
> >Sarah- until Sarah saw Bob watching her (while hugging Donna) and Maddy
> >arrived.

Interesting point.  I'm trying to remember our early views of Leland.
After his initial freakout, when was the next time we saw him?

> >Postulation: Laura and Maddy may both have been abused by Leland. Maybe they
> >were even really sisters in stead of cousins. Odd to notice that Maddy already
> >had an apartment while Laura was still in high school, but supposedly they 
> >were the same age. 

No.  Maddie was four years older.  (The rest of what you say here
seems to be pure speculation to me.)

> >What is Hank doing with a police badge?

He swiped it from Daryl Lodwick (the state prosecutor) the week
before.

-- Rod Johnson * rjohnson@vela.acs.oakland.edu * (313) 650 2315 "You will never hear surf music again" -- Jimi

From: fi@whittaker.rice.edu (Fiona Oceanstar)

*<whew> I feel like I deserve a gold star.  :-)  'Just skimmed some 350
*piled-up articles in this newsgroup to make sure that no one had said
*this yet:
*
*Sarah Palmer has a spinal injury. 

Sorry, I beat you to the punch!  But maybe my post hadn't reached you yet,
or maybe you (understandably) didn't feel like reading through my long dull
post to get to the one little sentence in which I mentioned it.

I repeat, can someone with a tape please check and see if it is correct
that Sarah's legs are NOT moving as she drags herself around?

Kathleen

From: carey@m.cs.uiuc.edu (John Carey)

*The vicuna might point to Bob Lydecker, who apparently keeps llamas.
*(another episode I missed)
*A vicuna is just a small llama, so he might have one of those too.

I too have been thinking Lydecker might be involved.  The problem is that
vicunas are not just small llamas -- they are a wild species that looks
quite different from a llama.  They have never successfully been domesticated.
To make matters worse, llama hair and vicuna hair are quite different.  I've
been hoping the lab made a mistake, and that Lydecker's llama patient is in
fact the source of the "vicuna coat", but the more I think about it the more
unconvinced I am.

Kathleen

Well, I'm surprised to admit that I finally had a TP-related nightmare.
And BOB wasn't even involved!  Actually, I don't remember how the dream
started (I rarely do, if I'm lucky enough to remember my dreams at all),
but basically I remember Sarah (a.k.a. Sara) killing Josie (a.k.a. Jose)
with a large knife and then killing Pete (no known misspelled aliases).
Both of the victims ended up tumbling down a stairwell (which happened
to be in my grandparents' house...I don't know how that relates to
anything).  After Sarah killed Pete (whom I seemed to think was her
husband in the dream), I had a shouting match with her (somewhat along
the lines of "How could you?").  At some point, I think I must have
realized that I was dreaming or I was just really really upset because
I finally ran up to her (while she was holding the raised knife) and
punched her in the face.  Then, of course, the phone rang, waking me up.

Other notes:  I'm convinced (without even reviewing the tapes) that it
was Jonathan and not Pete in the window watching Harry and Josie based
on the subsequent conversation between Jonathan and Josie (sorry, jayembee).

Question:  I've noticed that it doesn't seem to be possible to see the
letter hidden underneath the fingernail from the top of the fingernail.
Do you think it's possible that the letter also doesn't cause any pain?
Maybe the missing "E" is underneath Jacoby's fingernail, and he just
doesn't realize it (he did smell burning oil at the gazebo, didn't he?).

Loony theory of the week:  Gary (gln) Newell is actually David Lynch
getting kicks out of knocking his own show and directing/producing
abilities.

Blue

In article <YbE7vR200juk5R64gW@cs.cmu.edu>, Jon.Webb@CS.CMU.EDU writes...

} 1) He arrested a prominent member of the community, in a manner that
} will damage his reputation, on pretty flimsy evidence partly supplied by
} his daughter, with whom Cooper has had something approaching a romantic
} relationship.  This isn't going to look good.

[And so forth...]

You're missing an important part. They did arrest Ben for suspicion of
murder. They explicitly stated that they were bringing him in *for
questioning* about the murder of Laura Palmer.

Cooper's evidence wasn't strong enough to build a court case on, but it
was clearly sufficient for Probable Cause to bring Ben in for questioning.

-- "I can't die yet. I haven't seen THE JOLSON STORY." --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA) UUCP: ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian ARPA: boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM

In article <27416874.8471@orion.oac.uci.edu>, dkrause@orion.oac.uci.edu (Doug Krause) writes...

} In article <34890001@hpsmtc1.cup.hp.com> azayha@hpsmtc1.cup.hp.com (Albert Zayha) writes:
}} According to Laura's diary entry (and to my nearest recollection thereof)
}} Twin Peaks in located 5 miles south of the Canadian border and 12 miles
}} east of the Idaho border.

} In Episode 1 Cooper says to Diane that Twin Peaks is 5 miles south of the
} Canadian border and 12 miles east of the *state* border.  No state speci-
} fied at that time.

True, but if you consult a map, you'll see that Idaho is the only possible
state it could be. The only other state that shares a border with Washington
is Oregon, and that's a bit far from the Canadian border.
-- "I can't die yet. I haven't seen THE JOLSON STORY." --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA) UUCP: ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian ARPA: boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM

In article <4871@trantor.harris-atd.com>, chuck@trantor.harris-atd.com (Chuck Musciano) writes...

} Consider: production often runs 12, 14 hours a day.

But not for everyone. She could appear already made up, film the scenes
with her in them (note that until Episode #14, Tojamura never appeared
in more than one scene an episode), and left. I'd be surprised if she
spent more than a couple of hours on the set.

} She would have to keep up the charade all the time, eating, talking
} to everyone else, going to the bathroom.

The first and last aren't necessarily applicable if she wasn't there all
day. As far as "talking to everyone else", part of the cover was that
Fumio couldn't speak English (and had an interpreter around -- undoubtedly,
they made sure that no one else in the cast spoke Japanese :-)) and was
quite stand-offish.

} And most importantly: even seeing her in low-res TV, most of us realized
} that was a woman in drag. How easy would it be to determine this up close
} and personal?

This was the foundation of my assertion that he was not she. I dislike the
"drapes over the eyes" business that someone else postulated. If "we"
(quotes because *I* didn't think that "he" looked like a woman in drag)
can see through the disguise, Ben should have, too.

-- "I can't die yet. I haven't seen THE JOLSON STORY." --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA) UUCP: ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian ARPA: boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM

In article <1990Nov14.164422.5278@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, kevin@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Kevin Schraith) writes...

} The name on the posted memo list for agent Cooper was D.B. Cooper. Maybe
} I am just high, but wasn't that the name of the man who skyjacked a jet,
} took $200,000 in ransom, and then bailed out somewhere over the state of
} Washington and was never seen again?

It's not just you. This has been hashed and rehashed since the series began
last April.

} I am not sure if we have been shown Dale's middle name, but it could begin
} with a 'b'.

His name has never been given other than as "Dale Cooper". That his middle
initial is "B" is pure speculation.

} The show itself is set in the heavily forested area of middle Washington.
} Coincidence? I think not.

Few people do. "Harry Truman", for instance, also has a Washington connection.
He was an old gaffer who refused to vacate his house when Mt. St. Helen's
barfed, and got buried in ash for his troubles.

-- "I can't die yet. I haven't seen THE JOLSON STORY." --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA) UUCP: ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian ARPA: boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM

In article <UbEJtbq00VsnEJ5lQP@andrew.cmu.edu>, bobg+@andrew.cmu.edu (Robert Steven Glickstein) writes...

}}} I can't for the life of me recall a character named Vivian.

}} At a guess, James' mom? I've certainly never heard of her either.

} According to TV Guide, it's *Norma's* mom.

Welllllll....not really. TV GUIDE *does* say that Norma's mother comes
visiting, with her husband in tow, which does fit the description given
of "Vivian", but they don't explicitly refer to her by that name.

James' mom was a good guess (it was mine, too, after all), but I agree
that Vivian has to be Norma's mom.

Other spoilers from the TVG entry:

"Pete delivers a message to Benjamin" and
"Bobby has a money-making plan"  appear as separate items. Makes me
think my first suspicion is correct: that the note to Ben we saw in the
previews was actually from Catherine, and that the voiceover by Bobby
is a typical deception.

-- "I can't die yet. I haven't seen THE JOLSON STORY." --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA) UUCP: ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian ARPA: boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM

In article <129@3cpu.UUCP> mke@3cpu.UUCP ( Mike Miller) writes:
> >I really think its past time for them to get rid of the BOB plotline.  I'm
> >past tired of young women on being brutally murdered on the show.  

You sure tire early.  This is the first one!

Laura was already dead when the show started -- she wasn't brutally
murdered on the show.

The other attacks on women that we've seen have been part of non-BOB
subplots: Leo/Shelley, Jean/Blackie, Hank/Catherine.

> >the 11/10
> >episode where Maddy is almost certainly killed had by far the most disturbing
> >scene I've ever seen on TV.  

Got a tape of Challenger?  But from a horror fiction standpoint I agree.

> >I havn't even been mildly freaked by anything
> >else that has went on before.  

It would seem hard not to be at least 'mildly' freaked by Ronette's
vision.  I sure fluttered.

> >There seem to be plenty of other plots going, so why do they keep dragging this
> >out?

Because this one isn't RESOLVED yet, and the others aren't far enough
along to guarantee audience interest by themselves.  (They may never be.)

-- "Nature loves a vacuum. Digital \O@/ Tom Neff doesn't." -- DEC sales letter /@O\ tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM

In article <2410@byron.ed.ac.uk>, lorraine@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Lorraine Leddy) writes...

} In the fourth episode of TP last night we saw Laura Palmer's funeral [...]

A word of advice, given only so that you're in synch with everyone else.
The commonly accepted nomenclature is to start counting from the first
hour-long episode, and to refer to the pilot film for the series as
"Episode #0". This is in line with how Lynch/Frost Productions treats
them. The reasons for this are somewhat complicated and I don't want to
get into it at the moment. So, the episode with Laura's funeral is actually
the *third* episode, not the fourth.

} Can someone out there answer me one question? Why did Leo marry his
} wife(can't remember her name!)? All he ever does is scream abuse at her
} or beat her up!

Unfortunately, some men marry for exactly that reason: to have someone
they can lord over. (Her name, by the way, is Shelley.)

} And what happened to the shirt with the blood on it she(the wife) found
} in Leo's bag!

You'll find out later.

} Also on the night L was killed Leo said that he was in Canada(Or somwhere
} far away) and if you remember correctly he vcouldn't have been as Bobby
} and his wife(What is her name???!!!) came back to her home the morning
} Laura's body was found to find Leo's truck....Much to there amazement!!!

Shelley told Bobby that Leo called saying he was in Butte, Montana, which
is far enough away that he couldn't have gotten to Twin Peaks that soon.
Seems pretty obvious that he lied to Shelley. Later on, you'll come across
other evidence that Leo was, in fact, still in the environs of Twin Peaks
and not, as he claimed, in Butte.

} What gives with Norma and Ed? They were childhood sweethearts(alomost!!)
} Why did he marry his current wife then?(The one with the eye-patch) And
} what happened to her eye anyway? Or is it fake?

Their story is told later on, in Episode #8 (the two-hour second season
premiere), eye-patch and all. (No, it's not fake -- in fact, though I
haven't seen any independent confirmation, I've been told that the patch
is "real" for the actress, not just the character.)

} Don't you just feel sorry for Josie Packard with such a wicked
} sister-in-law..but at least she'll have the Sherrif to protect her(if
} you know what I mean!!!)

Heh heh heh.

} We were introduced to Maddie...Laura's cousin last night...amazing
} resemblance to Laura ...Is it her with a black wig on? I thought I heard
} something about that earlier.

This seems to be a point of contention. In some photos of the actress,
she's brunette, in others she's blond. I'm not sure which is her natural
hair color.

-- "I can't die yet. I haven't seen THE JOLSON STORY." --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA) UUCP: ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian ARPA: boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM

In article <1990Nov11.203621.25930@hoss.unl.edu> davidl@fergvax.unl.edu (David Larson) writes:
> > how does Cooper know to start reciting the quote at the exact very
> >moment the Mike does?

It's in the script?

In article <1990Nov14.130010@Unify.com>, raveling@Unify.com (Paul Raveling) writes...

} They're concerned about their ratings, and much of the ratings problem
} is probably due to Peaks' time slot.

I'd say it's a little more sure than "probably". Looking at some of the
weekly Nielsen lists that get posted to rec.arts.tv, it seems to me that
most of the Saturday evening shows are close to the bottom of the list.

Of course, the others probably don't cost quite as much as TP.

-- "I can't die yet. I haven't seen THE JOLSON STORY." --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA) UUCP: ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian ARPA: boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM

>> >>|W|ell, I wouldn't worry too much about it.  After all, Piper
>> >>`-' Laurie managed to fool the entire _TP_ cast, too!  I, too,
>> >>    am dying to hear how Catherine arranged the whole thing.
> >
> >I find this rather hard to swallow.  If it was so obvious to so many net
> >readers, how could the cast not know?  

Perhaps because the cast members didn't have the luxury of going home
after a hard day of work and FREEZE-FRAMING back through everything they
saw on the set...

-- Stalinism begins at home. }{ Tom Neff }{ tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM

Last weekend i posted a post about TP graphics files...
i found a ftp site for them, and they are now available from anonymous

ftp at freebie.engin.umich.edu
in the directory /pub/twin-peaks 

be sure to download them in binary format.
If i do any more next saturday i'll post those as well, but i have no
guarantee's as to how long these files can stay around.  I don't want
to hog disk space either, so i'll remove them as i replace them with
better ones... They are in full color gif format and hopefully are 
usable that way... They aren't necessarily the best resolution either...
but i'm not sure what i can do about that.
good luck!... 

please keep me informed via e-mail your success in using these files.
thanks...


-- Darrin Jewell ----------jewell@athena.mit.edu-----------------KA2ZLZ------ 4 Ames Street | Massassachusetts Insttute of Technology | Darrin B. Jewell Cambridge MA | Senior House -- Runkle 304 | 8 Thomaston Lane USA 02139 | | Orchard Park, NY (617)225-6771 | The graphics imbicile from hell | USA 14127-2526 (617)225-6624 | | (716) 662-9440

The UK Version of Twin Peaks now has a mailing list set up so if there is
anyone out there who is interested in joining us mail:

> >twin-peaks@UK.AC.DARESBURY<

As this mailing list has been set up please do not send anymore BBC2
related queries or questions to the main Twin Peaks newsgroup....mail us
instead. We are looking forward to hearing from you.

DAMNLorraineGOODCOFFEE

In article <11266@goofy.Apple.COM> mdtaylor@Apple.COM (Mark Taylor) writes:
#>>In article <27416874.8471@orion.oac.uci.edu> dkrause@orion.oac.uci.edu (Doug Krause) writes:
#>>>
#>>>In Episode 1 Cooper says to Diane that Twin Peaks is 5 miles south of the
#>>>Canadian border and 12 miles east of the *state* border.
#
#I'm pretty sure Cooper had said "12 miles west".  I'll check the tape tonight.

I probably just mistyped, sorry.  Anyway, we're looking at the upper
right hand corner of whatever state it is.

Douglas Krause                     One yuppie can ruin your whole day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
University of California, Irvine   Internet: dkrause@orion.oac.uci.edu
Welcome to Irvine, Yuppieland USA  BITNET: DJKrause@ucivmsa

In article <17322@shlump.nac.dec.com>, boyajian@ruby.dec.com (Cisco's Buddy) writes...

} You're missing an important part. They did arrest Ben for suspicion of
                                         ^^^

If I leave another "not" out, I AM GOING TO SCREAM!!!

-- "I can't die yet. I haven't seen THE JOLSON STORY." --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA) UUCP: ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian ARPA: boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM

> >
> >We were introduced to Maddie...Laura's cousin last night...amazing
> >resemblance to Laura ...Is it her with a black wig on? I thought I heard
> >something about that earlier.
> >
My wife says it's the same actress, I didn't notice any resemblance. Is it
or isn't it? Views please...


Dave Curtis

Academic Department of Psychiatry,    Janet:       dc@UK.AC.UCL.SM.PSYCH
Middlesex Hospital,                   Elsewhere:   dc@PSYCH.SM.UCL.AC.UK
Mortimer Street, London W1N 8AA.      EARN/Bitnet: dc%PSYCH.SM.UCL@UKACRL
Tel 081-380 9475 Fax 081-323 1459     Usenet: ...!mcsun!ukc!mrccrc!D.Curtis

From: carey@m.cs.uiuc.edu (John Carey)

> >The vicuna might point to Bob Lydecker, who apparently keeps llamas.
> >(another episode I missed)
> >A vicuna is just a small llama, so he might have one of those too.

A vicuna coat is always rather expensive, and someone else has mentioned
its either a dark brown or black.  Sound likes some of the things that
Josie wears.  She's the right height, too.
-- "When your neighbour loses his job, it's a slowdown; when you lose your own job, it's a recession; when an economist loses his job it's a depression." -- "Six Ways To Define A Recession", The Economist, Nov. 3 1990.

I know exactly who and what BOB is.  I have to make someone believe me.

It came to me as I was watching "Batman" on HBO last night.  BOB is the
Joker's right-hand man, senselessly murdered near the end of the film!

It all makes sense!  The long, greasy hair; the penchant for demented
crimes; the eagerness for fun...

``Diane, this is Cooper.  Get into your `Robin' gear and meet me in the
Batmobile.  We haven't one!  Moment!  To lose!''

______________                  _____________________________
Bob Glickstein                | Internet: bobg@andrew.cmu.edu
Information Technology Center | Bitnet:   bobg%andrew@cmuccvma.bitnet
Carnegie Mellon University    | UUCP:     ...!harvard!andrew.cmu.edu!bobg
Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890    |
(412) 268-6743                | Sinners can repent, but stupid is forever

The correct form of Andy's sperm speech follows thus:

                 The Tacoma sperm bank was looking for donors
                 so of course I volunteered.  It's my civic
                 duty, and besides, I like whales.  The doctors
                 there told me I was sterile.  Sure I thought that
                 meant I didn't have to take a bath, but they told
                 me the truth.  They said I couldn't have babies.
                 So what I want to know is, how come you're having
                 one and with whom?

I'm pretty sure this is the whole speech.  It's one of my favorites. :)
         _______
KJA102@PSUVM
Kit Aikin_______  Vicuna?

As I recall, there was a clue in the 11/3 episode about a vicuna coat
(the person who shot Cooper was supposed to be wearing one)  If I am
not mistaken, the white animal on the windowsill in Ben Horne's office
was a vicuna.  Leland took a piece of fur from the animal and put it in
his pocket.

Now, the question is, why?  Does Leland hope to frame Ben with Cooper's
shooting?  Is he going to leave some of this fur on Maddy to tie the two
incidents together?  Leland has been in Ben's office enough to come into
contact with the vicuna (although I haven't seen it until now)  Did Leland
shoot Cooper while being possessed by Bob and the animal triggered some
sort of memory for him?

I have only questions, and I can't bear to watch the 11/10 episode again.
At least, not by myself at night.

_________________________________
KJA102@PSUVM
Kit Aikin      "It's happening again."
_________________________________

In article <1990Nov13.154508.23296@wpi.WPI.EDU>, jroyea@wpi.WPI.EDU (James E
Royea) says:
> >
> >I heard this from my parents who are also big Twin Peaks fans.
> >
> >Supposedly you see a white horse before you die and go to hell.  Remember,
> >only


I concurr.  Besides, doesn't Death ride a pale horse?

_____________________________
KJA102@PSUVM   "Warning Will Robinson, Warning"
Kit Aikin

In article <1616@beguine.UUCP> George.Harris@samba.acs.unc.edu (George Harris) writes:
> >
> >A couple of random comments:
> >
> >Now we know that the vision Maddy had on the Palmers' carpet was
> >blood.
> >
> >"Leland says you're going back to MONTANA!"
> >George.Harris@samba.acs.unc.eduGe|ge

  I have another thought on the carpet thing.  When you rub carpet the wrong
way, it looks exactly like what maddie saw happen to the carpet IMHO.
This same rubbing looks a lot like what would happen if someone crawled along
on it like Mrs. Palmer did.  I think maybe Mrs. Palmer the crawling King Snake
never made it to that particular spot where Maddie saw the mark appear, but it
was the same carpet, and the effect looked to me just like a *rub mark*, not
drooled or spattered like your generic television blood stain.
Anyone care to cook this half-baked idea a little further???


--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
..and where is the Batman?  HE'S AT HOME - WASHIN' HIS TIGHTS!!!
 - The Joker

In article <4871@trantor.harris-atd.com>, chuck@trantor.harris-atd.com
(Chuck Musciano) writes:
|> In article <QbDgI8200Vpe0EDkkd@andrew.cmu.edu>, jh6g+@andrew.cmu.edu
(Jason F. Harvey) writes:
|> > 3) It was said in the USA TODAY that not even the cast members new that
|> > the asian was Piper Laurie.

I believe this.

|> 
|> This is almost as bad as the ghost in Three Men and a Baby!  If you really
|> believe that Piper Laurie ran around in drag for weeks, completely unknown
|> to the rest of the cast, I've got some land for you here in Florida.

I don't necessarily believe this.

|>     And most importantly: even seeing her in low-res TV, most of us realized
|> that was a woman in drag.  How easy would it be to determine this up close
|> and personal?  The biggest tip-off was her skin.  Her face was smooth, with
|> no shadow, even though she had this humongous moustache.  In those close-
|> ups with Pete or Ben, the other actor would instantly see the makeup and
|> fake hair.

Consider the theory we have been going on. What if Tojimura was actually
played by an Asian woman in drag, until the climactic scene with Pete? In the
opening credits, we found a female Asian that we could not account for. Our
explanation: She played Tojimura until the revelation which was played by
Piper Laurie in prosthetics.

Copyright 1990 Eric SalituroEric Salituro @ Rice University
This is not a .signature line...Houston TX 77251-1892 
(713) 527-8101 x2474
Life is like a metaphor.INTERNET: wasg@rice.edu

In article <1990Nov14.130010@Unify.com> raveling@Unify.com (Paul
Raveling) writes:
> > So if there are really something like 25,000 readers of
> > this newsgroup, it might make an impression if a few thousand
> > of them write to Bob Iger saying something like "I want to see
> > Twin Peaks, but 10 p.m. Saturday is tough -- how about moving
> > it to some more convenient time?"

Hang on now. If it ain't broke don't fix it. What if they moved it up
against Cheers or something. I think we should just write in support
of the show and not take any chances. Hell, we're supposed to be an
upscale audience so we all have VCR's anyway, right?

--
| Chuck Henkel                      |                            |
| N.C. State University             | Curious about evolution?   |
| Department of Nuclear Engineering |   Read Stephen J. Gould.   |
| henkel%nepjt@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu      |                            |

Well, now that we all know who killed Laura Palmer (uh-huh), ABC can finally 
remove TWIN PEAKS from its schedule without fear that its executives will be
(dare I say) "lynched" by angry mobs.  It may be gone by Christmas.

So what do we, the loyal fans, have to look forward to?

Spinoffs!  That's right, new shows to take advantage of TWIN PEAKS, err, 
popularity, while returning to a more conventional television format.
So David Rind and I decided to raid to computers in ABC's program development 
department.  We discovered the following treatments, plus some rather 
embarrasing corporate memos which we are reserving for our own use.  (You'll 
be hearing from us, Mr. Koppel.)

David Rind did all the illegal breaking-and-entering; I just transcribed what 
he found.  That's Dee-Ay-Vee-Eye-Dee Arr-Eye-Enn-Dee, pronounced like it looks.
He's at rind@hscfvax.harvard.edu  [I *told* you you'd get full credit, David!]

Here are some of the shows we can expect to find on ABC's schedule next fall:

-----------------------------------

TWIN PEAKS, R.F.D.
Small-town humor with Sheriff Harry S. Truman and his hapless deputies in the 
rural Northwest.

Tonight's Episode: Andy (Harry Goaz) quietly tries to find his lost gun, 
while Lucy (Kimmy Robertson) has surprising news for her mom.

-----------------------------------

BELTONE FORCE
Having resigned from the F.B.I., Agent Gordon Kohl (David Lynch) recruits a 
special team of operatives to deal with unusual crimes no one else will handle.

Tonight's episode: Kohl sends Coop and the Man From Another Place (Michael J.
Anderson) to rescue Agent Audrey from the Columbian coffee 
cartel, while, in Tibet, Agent Albert (Miguel Ferrer) faces trumped 
up assault charges.

-----------------------------------

PUMPED UP with NADINE HURLEY
Morning execise show for the truly committed.

Today's show: The full refrigerator workout.

-----------------------------------
THAT GUM YOU LIKE
Sheryl's identical cousin Sherilynn moves from Missoula, Montana to stay 
with her big city cousin.  Madcap misadventures ensue.

Tonight's episode: The twins' plans backfire after Sherilynn takes Sheryl's 
place during a drug buy.

-----------------------------------

COOKING ADVENTURES with JERRY HORNE
Master Gourmet Jerry Horne takes us around the world to sample exotic
dishes from several lands.  Regular feature: Desserts of the Pacific Rim,
with Norma Jennings

Today's show: Jerry prepares Minced Crow a la jayembee

-----------------------------------

TWIN PEAKS HIGH
Hilarious hijinks of wacky teens in America's strangest high school.

Tonight's episode: Donna (Lara Flynn Boyle) is jealous as James befriends 
the mysterious new girl (Fumiko Yamaguchi), and Bobby and Mike scheme 
to obtain the answers for their history midterm.

-----------------------------------

NEW SHOES
A moving story of love and courage as ex-waitress Shelly Johnson (Madchen
Amick) learns to cope with her new life as devoted nurse to her consciousness 
challenged husband Leo.

Tonight's episode: Facing serious money problems, Shelly considers taking a 
part-time job at a local department store.

-----------------------------------

RUNNING IT INN TO THE GROUND
Family fun as the Horne family inherits a large inn in Washington State.

Tonight's episode: Trouble develops as Uncle Jerry (Dave Kelly) books a
SwedishMeatball Contest opposite Sylvia's church meeting, Audrey 
tries to fix the plumbing, and Johnny discovers an Indian burial 
ground in the basement.




Anyone know what the other networks are planning?!? (hint, hint)
-- =============================================================================== Malcolm Austin -- maus@fid.morgan.com #include "disclaimer.h"

Okay, I checked the tape and found that Cooper's words were:

"5 miles south of the Canadian border; 12 miles west of the state line."

- Mark