Season 2, Episode 07: Lonely Souls — November 10–16, 1990

Although I do believe that Maddy is dead, it is worth pointing out that
Ronette received her letter before she died (obviously), and Laura may
have as well.  I assumed Maddy was dead because of here total lack of
reaction when the "O" was inserted (ouch!).  I would have thought even
an unconcious person would have moaned, or flinched, but I'm no M.D.

Perhaps BOB is just getting warmed up, and Cooper will have time next Saturday
to save the day.  That will certainly make me feel better about this mocking, 
know-it-all giant.  Lure Cooper away, and then give him some cryptic clue.
Sheesh.  Who does he think he is--the Riddler?-- 
===============================================================================
Malcolm Austin -- maus@fid.morgan.com 
#include "disclaimer.h"

If BOB is spelling Robert backwards without the vowels, (remember the
previous letters were T, R, and B in that order) then we should have
expected to see an R next.  The knife blade was obscuring enough of the
letter that it could quite possibly have been the expected R.

BOB Jacques

In article <16756@netcom.UUCP> mojo@netcom.UUCP (Morris Jones) writes:
> >Twin Peaks has entered a new era.
> >
> >Did you notice?  This was the first show in which the closing credits were
> >run over something other than a Laura Palmer school photo.
> >
> >Mojo

*BZZZT*!  But thank you for playing.

The episode with Cooper's dream (from the first season) had the dwarf doing
his dance during the closing credits.  I had thought one of the other Lynch-
directed episodes ended differently as well, but I don't recall it now.

-- =============================================================================== Malcolm Austin -- maus@fid.morgan.com #include "disclaimer.h"

In article <90319.103745KJA102@psuvm.psu.edu> KJA102@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
   The correct form of Andy's sperm speech follows thus:

    The Tacoma sperm bank was looking for donors
    so of course I volunteered.  It's my civic
    duty, and besides, I like whales.  The doctors
    there told me I was sterile.  Sure I thought that
    meant I didn't have to take a bath, but they told
    me the truth.  They said I couldn't have babies.
    So what I want to know is, how come you're having
    one and with whom?

Actually, it's:

Listen to me, Lucy Moran, you just listen.  When the Takoma
Sperm Bank was looking for donors, naturally I applied.  It's my civic
duty and I like whales.  A routine physical examination revealed that
I'm sterile.  Sure I thought it meant that I didn't have to take a
bath, but the doctors told me the truth.  They told me I can't have
babies.  So what I wanna know now is why are you having one and how?


-30-
Bob

``Is this real....or just some twisted dream?''

   From: carey@m.cs.uiuc.edu (John Carey)

   *The vicuna might point to Bob Lydecker, who apparently keeps llamas.
   *(another episode I missed)

Actually, though several people seem to be making this assumption,  I see
no reason to believe this.  As I remember, Bob Lydecker is a Veterinarian
and the llama was one of various animals in his office when Cooper and Co.
raided the place.  There seemed to be no indication that the llama belonged
to Lydecker, if anything it seemed to be there primarily for comic relief.

Dale Schouten
schouten@uiuc.edu

I for one was willing to give up after last week, but when I turned to my
friends and said, "Oh, well. I guess Leland did it", they tried to ripped my
head off. They are still convinced, and several have decided that Lynch/Frost
have simply got it wrong. If Truman doesn't turn out to be the killer (while
possessed by BoB), A barrage of nasty letters if not threats is likely.
    Will someone come to Princeton and calm these folks down? Please?
          Christian A. Hartleben

In article <1202@news.chips.com> bmay@chips.com (Brad May) writes:

>> >>In Episode 1 Cooper says to Diane that Twin Peaks is 5 miles south of the
>> >>Canadian border and 12 miles east of the *state* border.  No state speci-
>> >>fied at that time.
  . . .
> >sodes.  But many other things would not make sense, such as Josie's shopping 
> >trip to Seattle the night of the fire, which would then only be a 1/2 hour 
> >drive!

More like a 2-1/2 hour drive.

> >Could Cooper have said 12 miles *west* of the state border?

I don't remember for sure, but at the time that was my impression.
As someone pointed out, Eastern Washington is mostly dry and cold, desert-like.
I'm not terribly familiar with it, but from a map I checked, the far NE corner
of the state does appear to be forests and mountains.  Nevertheless, I'm
still in agreement with the majority (or at least plurality :-) of the net
in believing that what they're really describing is some spot in the
cascades, perhaps on the eastern side.  12 miles inland and 5 miles South
(I can't see them saying 12 mi east of stateborder unless it was a glitch
cuz there is no real western border, just the coast, unless maybe we're
all confused and they're really talking about Washington D.C. :-) is pretty
near Lynden WA which has some beautiful farmland and a great view of Mt Baker
(and a church on nearly every corner) but is still a ways from the mountains
in which TP seems to be nestled (and which special agent Cooper was driving
through at the time).

Basically, IMHO, the exact placement of TP was probably just pulled out of
the air.  They probably never dreamed a bunch of computer geeks would
spend months arguing about it :-)

They probably also never realized that after seeing the 11/10 episode that
some people would still be wondering WKLP!

Dale Schouten
schouten@uiuc.edu

In article <YbE7vR200juk5R64gW@cs.cmu.edu> Jon.Webb@CS.CMU.EDU writes:
> >BTW, can anyone recall a reference to Leland Palmer in Laura's diary?  A
> >description, a comment about what a great father he is, something like
> >that?  I can remember her talking about her mother, Ben Horne, and even
> >Doc Hayward, but I can't remember anything about her pop.  Seems to me
> >it would've been a clue, if true.

What Laura says about Leland in the diary doesn't sound like she thought 
he was a great father.  Here's what she does say.

(age 13)
"But now I feel awkward about dad.  Like he is a less honest man for
claiming that Troy was a gift from him."
She goes on to say she wishes she hadn't received the horse,
that way she wouldn't have lost respect for her father.

(age 15)
"I tried to talk to Dad at breakfast and he just sat there twitching,
like he doesn't have time for any extra thoughts.  Doesn't have time
for the fucking suicide dreams his own daughter is having.  Neither
one of my parents will talk to me."

"...the images I have of Mom and Dad are now awful and depressing pictures
I can't stop seeing... Oh, if she ever knew the things that have happened."


Michael Kaye   horny@ucscb.ucsc.edu   "Want to play with fire?"

In article <1990Nov14.213919.3098@lokkur.dexter.mi.us> scs@lokkur.dexter.mi.us (Steve Simmons) writes:

> >While I agree that Cooper arrested Ben in the mistaken thought that he
> >killed Laura, he did *not* arrest him for murder.

I think you're right.  If I remember correctly what they said was they 
wanted him for questioning w.r.t. the murder of LP. (though I may be mistaken)

Dale Schouten
schouten@uiuc.edu

In article <5901@rtech.Ingres.COM> elvira@ingres.com (Eric G. Elvira) writes:
> >My vote is a YES to create rec.arts.tv.twin-peaks.
> >
> >I know there is an alt group but as many people have said a lot of sites do
> >not get the alt groups. Why should we discriminate against those sites?
> >

We shouldn't.  Those sites (hopefully) are receiving rec.arts.tv.  They
can read about TP there.  If they don't receive rec.arts.tv, they should
petition their admin(s) for access to it.

Yes, TP traffic increases the load on rec.arts.tv, but I guess I just 
don't understand the problem with using kill files, thread-killing tools,
etc., or (heaven forbid) just skipping to the next article when a TP one
shows up.  Even if you have an old/bad newsreader package, is it _really_
that hard?  Seems like every time someone gets a little lazy, the call to 
split the group goes out.

Also, as it has been pointed out here, the rec* hierarchy is not for tran-
sitory groups.  Specific TV shows are transitory (or better yet--too 
specific for the rec* hierarchy).

Kip
kguinn@diana.cair.du.edu

In article <60830@bbn.BBN.COM> eboneste@BBN.COM (Liz Bonesteel) writes:
> >Perhaps the problem here is that the attitude expressed is one of my
> >personal pet peeves: men who claim that women are incomprehensible.
> >There are a lot of them.  They piss me off.  Perhaps my reaction was
> >an overreaction because of that; but I don't really see any change or
> >clarification of this attitude in subsequent episodes.  Take Lucy, for
> >example.  To those of us who know what's going on in her life, her
> >behavior makes perfect sense.  But this gang doesn't even *try* to
> >understand; 

<confused look on face . . . a shrug of the shoulders . . .>  Women!


-----
Gordy
-----

lecl@quads.uchicago.edu (elizabeth e. leclair) posts Diana Hume George's
analysis of the women of Twin Peaks:
> >     "I can see Lynch's work in three ways.  All of them scare me.  He
> > might be cynically corrupt, exploiting his now vast, gullible, prime-time
> > audience with those secrets he says it's all about.  Or I can see him as
> > the wise man, the visionary showing us our darkest depths.  Or maybe he's
> > really the gifted innocent in touch with, though incompletely aware of,
> > his own unconscious and tapping ours in ways he cannot articulate."

Oh, please.  He's none of the above.  He (and Mark Frost; it's really as
much his show as Lynch's in many ways) are attempting to communicate their
artistic vision; they are also human beings, and (since, after all, this
analysis appears in Ms.) they are male.  The third one is closest to the
truth; the show deals extensively with the unconscious, but they aren't
"gifted innocents"; they are very deliberately tapping into the unconscious.

> >     "I, we, the trendy, twenty-thirty-and-forty-something audience, are
> > getting off on the sexually tortured, brutally murdered, mutilated body
> > of an adolescnet girl.  And what's new about that?  What's new about 
> > television exploiting our love affair with the interfaces of sex and death,

OK so far.

> > or our hunger for seeing women dead or maimed or mutilated or suicidal
> > or raped or helpless, especially if they're sexually active?  Nothing
> > much.  Prime-time business as usual, only a little worse because even
> > feminists like myself are sufficiently charmed to offer it exemption."

There's a very disturbing trend in "slasher" movies where the camera
actually shows you the point of view of the killer as he stalks the
nubile young woman to kill her, to punish her.  Such films are so consistent
about this imagery that the critics who accuse them of portraying sexually
active young women as getting their just reward seem on target.  But
that's not Twin Peaks we're talking about here.

Get it: Twin Peaks is not socialist realism.  It deals with the unconscious;
the ones we have, not the ones we wish we had or think it would be politically
correct to have.  Twin Peaks portrays violence against women; our culture
contains violence against women.  I would prefer that violence be depicted
as Twin Peaks does it, with all the horror that that violence really has,
than in the sanitized form that the rest of the media portrays it in
(exception: Hawk's knife in the back to rescue Coop and Harry at OEJ's.
I thought the TP gang were above that).

> >     "Among the men there are surely many bad guys (Ben and Jerry, Leo,
> > Jacques, and sometimes Bobby).  But it's also chock-full with good guys,
> > who even when comic or relatively powerless are ethically trustworthy
> > (Pete, Dr. Jacoby, Andy, James).  The good guys, who are sympathetic, act
> > decently, and can command viewer respect as well as attention....

Dr. Jacoby?  Please.
> >    ....Now look at the women.  First we have the victims of murder and/or
> > rape and mutilation, Laura and Ronette, high school kids on coke with
> > jaded perspectives and promiscuous sex lives.  Laura is an active
> > participant in her own corruption, and the cause of fall in others.

A vast oversimplification.  Laura is also portrayed as the one who
started Meals on Wheels (with Norma), who taught Josie English, who
helped the autistic Johnny Horne, who was loved by the community.
It's the author of this article who has the "jaded perspective", Laura
didn't.  This is not the typical Madonna/whore dichotomy that Ms. rightly
accuses most of the media of possessing.

> > Leading the bordello where all these high school girls have their after-
> > school jobs is Blackie, a creature of smoothly amoral collarbones if
> > ever there was one.

Of course in real life there are no madams.

> >  Catherine is a grasping bitch about to go bad in the teeth. 

Say what?  "Bitch" is the word our culture uses to describe powerful
women.  Catherine is a powerful woman.

> > Audrey is so sexually advanced that she's 18 going on 40.

Say what?  I can almost guarantee you that Audrey is a virgin.

> >   Among the girls in white hats, we can recently include the dubious
> > Audrey-- perhaps.

Of course, we can include Audrey.  May I suggest (yes, I know, she's not
reading the net) that the author examine her own prejudices?

> >  Nadine is bonkers, and Donna's mother, Mrs. Hayward,
> > has no damned first name that I know of.  Margaret, the Log Lady, may
> > be a gifted prophet, but she's also out to lunch.  We get treated to vividly
> > suggestive scenes of Shelley's beating and bondage.  All Laura's mother
> > does is cry, but to be fair, so does her husband.  Audrey's mother began
> > cold and hysterical and then disappeared.  Lucy is wonderful, but she's
> > comic relief.  Who does this leave among the women?  Is anyone vaguely
> > in charge of herself, not a victim, crazy, and not corrupt?

Sure.  Norma, Donna, Audrey (yes, I know she needed to be resued, but
then so did Cooper and Truman).

> >   There is Maddie, Laura's cousin/double, who is so much a parody of
> > innocence that you want to puke on her shoes; the jury's out on her.

Yes, she is.  But you see, Twin Peaks is about archetypes; Maddie gets
to play an archetype, as do a number of the other characters.  Ben is
just as one-dimensional playing Corrupt Businessman.

> > We thought we has Jocelyn [Josie], who could even do double duty for
> > affirmative action as a minority, but it appears that she is involved
> > in murder and blackmail.  So who's left?  Donna?  Sweet but hardly in
> > charge, and thus far underdeveloped as a character.

Seems to me we've seen quite a lot of Donna.  I think part of the
underdevelopment is that Lara Flynn Boyle's acting is kind of flat
and wooden.

> >  It is Peggy Lipton's
> > Norma who must finally bear the burden of being the only adult woman in
> > the series who is strong so far, nobody's fool, and only one man's victim."

Oh, please.  Catherine and Josie also fit into this category.  And who says
Norma is a man's victim?  She chooses to let Hank work for her (notice: she
is his boss) and he may have her fooled about some things, but has he
succeeded in exploiting her in any way yet?  No; it seems that for all his
other sins, he puts in hard work at the diner, and for all his corruption,
he sincerely does value his relationship with her.


--
Joe Buck
jbuck@galileo.berkeley.edu {uunet,ucbvax}!galileo.berkeley.edu!jbuck

In article <1990Nov14.164422.5278@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> kevin@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Kevin Schraith) writes:
> >The name on the posted memo list for agent Cooper was D.B. Cooper.  Maybe I
> >am just high, but wasn't that the name of the man who skyjacked a jet, took
> >$200,000 in ransom, and then bailed out somewhere over the state of Washington
> >and was never seen again?  I am not sure if we have been shown Dale's
> >middle name, but it could begin with a 'b'.  

I think your on to something:   Dale BOB Cooper.   :^>

-----
Gordy
-----

In article <17256@shlump.nac.dec.com> boyajian@ruby.dec.com (Cisco's Buddy) writes:
> >In article <14646@accuvax.nwu.edu>, kaufman@delta.eecs.nwu.edu (Michael L. Kaufman) writes...
> >
> >} I don't buy this whole thing. This all started when someone called Donna's
> >} behavior slutty. Face it folks, she was acting slutty. She was not showing
> >} a "healthy" or "positive" attitude toward sex, she wanted to do it on the
> >} floor in the jail with James. This, by any reasonable definition, IMHO, is
> >} considered slutty behavior.
> >
> >I disagree. If a man wants to screw anything that moves, people think its
> >natural -- "He's just sowing his wild oats."

Bullshit.  Maybe among redneck wife-beating slugs it's OK, but not among re
sonable people.  Anywat, I think the whole problem here is that Donna had a
serious personality shift that seemd to indicate she was feeling rather
horny.  This was in sharp contrast to her "normal" self.

> >If a woman wants to screw anything that moves, she's considered a "slut".

Screwing anything that moves is deffinitely deviant behavior, male or female.

> >This is sexist. It's wrong. So she wants to do it on the floor with James?
> >So what?

So it was totally inappropriate for the situation, as well as for her 
character.

> >} Just as, if James had made this suggestion to Donna we would call him
> >} (oh, I don't know), an asshole.
> >
> >Yeah, but no one would think he was deviant because of it.

Well, I would.  I think most people would.  If James walked up to Donna and
said "Come on, I want to do it.  Here." while Donna was sitting in a booth at
the RR, I think most people would think that something was seriously screwy
(forgive the pun).


-- | kreme@nyx.cs.du.edu |Growing up leads to growing old, and then to dying, and| |---------------------|dying to me don't sound like all that much fun. | | It is the spectator and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde |

In article <1990Nov14.191303.10529@evax.arl.utexas.edu> cs4344af@evax.arl.utexas.edu (Fuzzy Fox) writes:
> >In article <1990Nov12.202422.2164@axis.dsg.ti.com> mccarty@aaet.csc.ti.com (Rick McCarty) writes:
>> >>Hey dude!  The NAME of a group has nothing to do with the ability to get
>> >>a feed.
> >This is not strictly true. 

Actually, this is not true AT ALL.  The reason that the deisgnations exist
is so that entire classes of groups can be excluded.  Many machines do not
receive the alt groups at all.  many don;t receive talk groups.  That's why
the heirarchy exists.

-- | kreme@nyx.cs.du.edu |Growing up leads to growing old, and then to dying, and| |---------------------|dying to me don't sound like all that much fun. | | It is the spectator and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde |

In article <16016@bfmny0.BFM.COM> tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM (Tom Neff) writes:

>> >>Margaret says, "The owls are at the roadhouse."  As far as I'm concerned,
>> >>this doesn't mean any ordinary inhabitant of the town of Twin Peaks,
>> >>such as Bobby, Donna, or James, but a special guest appearance of the
>> >>owls, the spiritual guardians of the woods.

> >The problem with this is that Sen~or Droolcup actually *is* an ordinary
> >inhabitant of Twin Peaks, just like Bobby or Donna.

Don't forget that Leland is just an "ordinary inhabitant of Twin Peaks"
too, yet BOB inhabits him.  My guess is that Droolcup is a host for
the giant who is an owl.

Anyone notice how there's always a bright spotlight on the "owls" and
the people they're interacting with?  This has been the case with
both BOB and the giant.

--
bvickers@ics.uci.edu
"Sometimes my arms bend back"

In article <17328@shlump.nac.dec.com> boyajian@ruby.dec.com (Cisco's Buddy) writes:
> >Other spoilers from the TVG entry:

> >"Pete delivers a message to Benjamin" and
> >"Bobby has a money-making plan"  appear as separate items. Makes me
> >think my first suspicion is correct: that the note to Ben we saw in the
> >previews was actually from Catherine, and that the voiceover by Bobby
> >is a typical deception.

Nope.  I watched the episode again (aaaagh!!!) and the previews.  The pad on
which the note is written has Leo's name on the top.

> >--- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA)
> >UUCP:...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian


--
Rob Jellinghaus                 | "Next time you see a lie being spread or
Autodesk, Inc.                  |  a bad decision being made out of sheer
robertj@Autodesk.COM            |  ignorance, pause, and think of hypertext."
{decwrl,uunet}!autodesk!robertj |    -- K. Eric Drexler, _Engines of Creation_

campbell_d@cho006.cho.ge.com:

> >Was it really "I am a lonely soul?"  
                  --    

No, but what difference does it make, really?

==============================================================================
|  Greg Anderson  |   hpcuhd!grega      |      grega@hpcuhd.HP.COM           |
==============================================================================
| "It isn't necessary to be rich and famous to be happy.  It's only          |
|  necessary to be rich." -- Alan Alda                                       |
==============================================================================

In article <1990Nov14.130010@Unify.com> raveling@Unify.com (Paul Raveling) writes:
> >BTW, if someone who has the address for Bob Iger
> >at ABC could post it I'd appreciate it...  can't
> >find it right now in my own files of such stuff.

The moment anyone posts Iger's address, I at least will take pen in hand and
plead for TP.  PLEASE, SOMEONE, POST IT!  Look for it, FIND IT, POST IT!
If it's important to you, the effort you expend finding the address will be
repaid when at least a couple hundred (hell, GET MOTIVATED, people!  WRITE!)
letters get sent.

> >Paul Raveling
> >Raveling@Unify.com


--
Rob Jellinghaus                 | "Next time you see a lie being spread or
Autodesk, Inc.                  |  a bad decision being made out of sheer
robertj@Autodesk.COM            |  ignorance, pause, and think of hypertext."
{decwrl,uunet}!autodesk!robertj |    -- K. Eric Drexler, _Engines of Creation_

I'll start by saying that I'm not going to absolutely defend the Ms.
article;  personally, I found that some of it went too far.  But I am
somewhat distressed that there are people who seem to be contending
that there is no sexism at all on Twin Peaks.  Our entire society is
sexist; why should Twin Peaks be any different?  I am not advocating,
and shall not advocate, that Lynch/Frost change their vision simply to
please me; art is art, and they are entitled to create their own
vision and put it out in the world.  I find the vision of Twin Peaks
to be a powerful and thought-provoking one.  I criticize because for
me the essence of truly effective horror (and I think TP can be
classified as horror - or is this another debate? ;-)) is an
atmosphere that has enough identifiable with the world that I live in
to affect my perceptions of my own existence.  For me, the
stereotypical gender roles presented on the show dull some of its
effectiveness.

In article <39597@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> jbuck@galileo.berkeley.edu (Joe Buck) writes:
> >
> >the show deals extensively with the unconscious, but they aren't
> >"gifted innocents"; they are very deliberately tapping into the unconscious.

I'm not so sure of that.  David Lynch, from the interviews I've read,
strikes me as just about anything but deliberate.  He thinks
"horrifying", comes up with an image, and presents it.  I did not get
the impression that he does a lot of thinking about *why* that image
is horrifying.  In this, I'll have to agree with the article.

> >Get it: Twin Peaks is not socialist realism.  It deals with the unconscious;
> >the ones we have, not the ones we wish we had or think it would be politically
> >correct to have.  

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.  Are you saying that our
collective unconscious is sexist?  That we all take a prurient
interest in violence against women (or simply those that are
helpless)?

> >Twin Peaks portrays violence against women; our culture
> >contains violence against women.  

Our culture also contains violence against men, children, the elderly,
and people of non-white ethnic groups.  Violence against women is a
terrible social problem (why it has yet to be classified as a hate
crime is beyond me), but I see it disproportionately represented on
television.

In defense of Twin Peaks, it began well on this front.  Yes, our
victim was female; but we experienced the trauma of her death without
actually having to watch her suffer and die.  I still think one of the
most powerful images the show has presented was in the pilot, when
Sarah finds out *over the phone* that her daughter is dead.  There was
something incredibly poignant about that shot of the phone receiver,
transmitting the sound of her sobs.

> >I would prefer that violence be depicted
> >as Twin Peaks does it, with all the horror that that violence really has,
> >than in the sanitized form that the rest of the media portrays it in

A point perhaps; but surely the scenes of violence have been some of
the best photographed of the series.  I watched Maddie's murder from
beginning to end, absolutely enthralled, even as I was horrified.  Is
this any less reprehensible than the sanitized quasi-killings that
populate shows like "Hunter" and "Miami Vice"?

>> >> Leading the bordello where all these high school girls have their after-
>> >> school jobs is Blackie, a creature of smoothly amoral collarbones if
>> >> ever there was one.
> >
> >Of course in real life there are no madams.

This is probably a fair shot.  (I kind of liked Blackie, myself, at
least until she turned out to be dependent on Jerry Horne; a truly
nasty, unpleasant person.) But my understanding is that most pimps are
men.  I personally don't have any problems with the character of
Blackie, but if she was meant to be a realistic character I'd be
surprised.

(I can't believe I'm arguing about "realistic" characters on Twin
Peaks!)

>> >> Audrey is so sexually advanced that she's 18 going on 40.
> >
> >Say what?  I can almost guarantee you that Audrey is a virgin.

I agree with this, too.  Audrey is my favorite character.  BUT she is
stereotypical, in that she uses her sexual precocity (whether or not
she is a virgin, she certainly knows what she's working with) as a
weapon against men.  I personally have encountered a number of men who
have attributed to deliberate manipulation what is nothing but simple
friendliness.  In this, I see Audrey as a sort of fantasy character;
if she is a virgin (and I believe she is), she is truly a madonna/
whore.  She is also one of the most complex and well-developed
characters on the show, so it's hard for me to criticize her with any
heart.

Jury's still out on Audrey.  If she lets Coop turn her into mush, I
will stop watching the show.

>> >> Is anyone vaguely
>> >> in charge of herself, not a victim, crazy, and not corrupt?
> >
> >Sure.  Norma, Donna, Audrey (yes, I know she needed to be resued, but
> >then so did Cooper and Truman).

Norma, yes.  Donna roams off on her own, does something stupid, and
then relies on James to get her out of it.  Her life currently
revolves around a man.  As for Audrey - well, considering her family
history (one thinks that her mother must have been somewhat allright,
or she'd be a total loss), I can't really blame her for being
confused; but since very early on everything she's done has been to
gain the notice/approval of Cooper.  She may be in control of her
actions, but she's hardly in control of her life.

> >But you see, Twin Peaks is about archetypes; Maddie gets
> >to play an archetype, as do a number of the other characters.  Ben is
> >just as one-dimensional playing Corrupt Businessman.

Ben is your average corrupt businessman?  You must have hit some
reeeeeel bad folks out there, Joe! ;-)

> >Seems to me we've seen quite a lot of Donna.  I think part of the
> >underdevelopment is that Lara Flynn Boyle's acting is kind of flat
> >and wooden.

I'll agree with you there.

>> >>  It is Peggy Lipton's
>> >> Norma who must finally bear the burden of being the only adult woman in
>> >> the series who is strong so far, nobody's fool, and only one man's victim."
> >
> >Oh, please.  Catherine and Josie also fit into this category.  

Catherine I'll have to see about.  She certainly let a little
afternoon delight cloud her perceptions (but then, I suppose, so has
Harry).  But Josie plays the little girl too much for me.  

Here's a question:  Don't men ever get pissed off at being portrayed
as so vulnerable to the attentions of an attractive woman?  I mean,
for God's sake, it's as bad as those commercials where a guy can't
even cope with putting a shirt in the laundry by himself.  Is there
any *man* out there who has been annoyed by images of men in Twin
Peaks?  (Harry, for example, pisses me off to no end.) Stereotyping
generally goes both ways.

Liz


I feel better than James Brown.
- Was (Not Was)

Jon.Webb@CS.CMU.EDU:

> >Cooper really is in over his head, as his boss suggested.  I think this
> >is one of the meanings of his expression in the last scene in episode 14.

> >1) He arrested a prominent member of the community, in a manner that
> >will damage his reputation, on pretty flimsy evidence partly supplied by
> >his daughter, with whom Cooper has had something approaching a romantic
> >relationship.  This isn't going to look good.

Ben was not arrested.  He was merely asked to "come down to the station"
--no the same thing at all.  It was BEN who made the fuss about it and had
to be removed forceably.

> >2) He ignored physical evidence.  What is Ben Horne's blood type?  AB-? 
> >Not likely.  A call to Doc Hayward could've eliminated him as a suspect,
> >or at least made Cooper more cautious.

Yeah, but since when has TP done anything based on physical evidence?
This is one of my biggest gripes with the show; Cooper is supposed to be
such a hot-shot Special Agent and he doesn't even attempt to piece
together the order of events at the crime scene based on more physical
evidence than most REAL crimes ever get to dream for.

> >3) He got carried away by the psychic part of the show.  OK, so Mike
> >apparently pointed to Ben, but you can't rely on him.  

Total agreement here -- as I indicated above.

> >Leland will probably get Maddy out of town somehow, dump the body
> >somewhere, and pretend that she left early the next morning without
> >saying good-bye to anyone.  

If Maddy dissappears, Leland is screwed.  Let's face it, after Ben and
Leland, there ARE no other suspects.  And now, Ben is in custody!

==============================================================================
|  Greg Anderson  |   hpcuhd!grega      |      grega@hpcuhd.HP.COM           |
==============================================================================
| "It isn't necessary to be rich and famous to be happy.  It's only          |
|  necessary to be rich." -- Alan Alda                                       |
==============================================================================

 Jon.Webb@CS.CMU.EDU:

> >There's no reason for Cooper to interpret the Giant's statement
> >correctly and run over to the Palmer house and save Maddy at the last
> >minute.  He's never met her; he doesn't know that she looks like Laura;
> >he doesn't even know that the Palmers have a house guest.  

Umm, but he knows about Donna And James' tricking Jacoby with the video.
Who did they get to "play" Laura, Shelley???

==============================================================================
|  Greg Anderson  |   hpcuhd!grega      |      grega@hpcuhd.HP.COM           |
==============================================================================
| "It isn't necessary to be rich and famous to be happy.  It's only          |
|  necessary to be rich." -- Alan Alda                                       |
==============================================================================

nolty@kastor (Bob Nolty):

> >Agent Cooper gets a lot of clues, but most of them haven't really been any
> >help in solving the crime -- 

> >HITTING BOTTLE WHEN DR. JACOBI'S NAME WAS CALLED -- didn't lead anywhere.

It lead to the discovery of the heart pendent, for that it's worth.

> >BREAKING BOTTLE WHEN LEO JOHNSON'S NAME WAS CALLED -- didn't really lead
> >anywhere, 

Not true.  At that time, *we* knew Leo was a fink but Cooper didn't know
him from Adam.  As it turned out, he is a very important witness and possible
accessory to Laura's murder.

> >MIKE: "...CONVENIENCE STORE.  WE LIVED ABOVE ONE." was true of Bob Lydecker's
> >(not BOB'S) office.  No help, really (they found Waldo by other means).

No, they found Waldo only because they had been above the Convenience store
and realised it was a vet's office.  (Also, remember that the store was a
source for Findley's Fine Twine!)

> >MFAP: "THAT GUM YOU LIKE IS GOING TO COME BACK IN STYLE." -- As far as I can
> >remember, this has no reference to anything, anytime, ever.  (Did I miss
> >something?)

No, unless Coop's fave is Adam's Clove Gum (which recently came back into
style).

> >MFAP: "DOESN'T SHE LOOK ALMOST EXACTLY LIKE LAURA PALMER" -- true but so what?

Coop hadn't known about Maddy yet.

==============================================================================
|  Greg Anderson  |   hpcuhd!grega      |      grega@hpcuhd.HP.COM           |
==============================================================================
| "It isn't necessary to be rich and famous to be happy.  It's only          |
|  necessary to be rich." -- Alan Alda                                       |
==============================================================================

In article <1990Nov11.203117.865@ceres.physics.uiowa.edu> 
jak@ceres.physics.uiowa.edu writes:
> > For all his talents, Lynch is not an astronomer. Cooper filled us in that
> > about 13 days have passed during the course of the show. In one of the first
> > few episodes, we saw a full moon, and again last night we saw the full moon.
> > Now, it's quite impossible to go from full moon to full moon in two weeks.
> > And we saw other phases of the moon that were just as out of place. I just
> > think shows are much more enjoyable when even the little details are
> > taken care of.

Hey!  I _agree_ with you!  I think they should only film the series one or 
(at most) two days a _month_ in order to make sure that they manage to 
keep the phases of the moon straight!

Write your Congressman.  Sheesh!

--
Lefty  (lefty@twg.com)              |          "And you may ask yourself,
D:.O:.D:., C:.M:.C:.                |             'How do I work this?'"

In article <1990Nov14.191303.10529@evax.arl.utexas.edu> cs4344af@evax.arl.utexas.edu (Fuzzy Fox) writes:
> >In article <1990Nov12.202422.2164@axis.dsg.ti.com> mccarty@aaet.csc.ti.com (Rick McCarty) writes:
>> >>Hey dude!  The NAME of a group has nothing to do with the ability to get
>> >>a feed.
> >
> >This is not strictly true.  I know for a fact that one of our sites is
> >unable to receive the newsgroup
> >"sci.physics.edward.teller.boom.boom.boom" because the software we are
> >using cannot handle a group with a name that long.

Perhaps.  But that, of course, is a problem with the receiving site's
software - not with the ability to obtain a source for a feed.

--Rick

Fiona, its psycosomatic (sp?).


.......chaz

In article <1617@beguine.UUCP>, George.Harris@samba.acs.unc.edu
  (George Harris) writes...
> >
> >BOB is Leland's childhood 'imaginary playmate'.
> > 

..MR. SNUFFLEUPAGUS WITH AN ATTITUDE.


JAMES DOLAN                                      V088KJ6A@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU

I don't think that twin-peaks should have a newsgroup in the "rec"
heirarchy for the following reasons:

1) Twin Peaks represents a trend.  No matter how much quality
   there may be, trends come and go (by definition).  The
   "normal" (non-alt) newsgroups should be fairly stable, not
   reflecting every slight surge or depression in interest.

2) Someone (erroneously, as it turns out) argued that their machine
   doesn't get the alt groups, so Twin Peaks should be carried on
   the rec groups.  Well, I think this is a pretty self centered
   argument.  If we use this argument for all of the alt groups
   that anyone may have an interest in, then we run into the 
   danger of overloading news servers who don't carry alt groups
   (for disk space considerations) but do carry the other groups 
   and pretty soon, *every* "non-work related" group will go away 
   on some machines.  Please, think of the larger picture.

Regards,
Michael A. Petonic
mikep@dirty.csc.ti.com

mojo@netcom.UUCP (Morris Jones) writes:

> > Twin Peaks has entered a new era.
> > 
> > Did you notice?  This was the first show in which the closing credits were
> > run over something other than a Laura Palmer school photo.

I believe the second season opener's closer (heh) was over Gersten 
playing the piano.

Joe Zitt...cs.utexas.edu!kvue!zitt!joe (512)450-1916

I have one small thing to say with regard to this debate, which is really about
a number of different things:

Re. Donna's behavior as depicted in the jail scene --> I think it's really
strange that so many people are going right along with *James'* interpretation
of the scenario--which is that she "wanted to *do* it with him right there."
Why are you taking *his* word for it?  James is a nice guy and all that, but
he seems pretty insecure and depressed and confused to me, so his interpreta-
tion of Donna's behavior may be different from ours.  If *I* were Donna, and
*my* brand-new boyfriend/lover were locked up, I, too, might take advantage
of a few seconds' eye and lip contact with him to let him know just how much
I was missing him--*physically*.  It's at least possible to view Donna's
behavior in this light.  It's at least possible to wonder if James doesn't
know a good thing when it's starin' him right in the face.  Doesn't he *want*
to be lusted after by Donna, for goodness sake?!  :-)

         --all in good fun,

Fiona Oceanstar

In article <17262@shlump.nac.dec.com> boyajian@ruby.dec.com (Cisco's Buddy) writes:
> >
> >Infallible?  Of course. But the arrest was not a "leap of illogic". I'm
> >sure any court would agree that Cooper's evidence, while not enough to
> >*convict* Ben of anything, was enough to give him Probable Cause in
> >bringing him in for questioning.


Judge:  And why exactly did you feel Mr. Horne might be responsible for Ms.
    Palmer's death ?

Coop:   Well, in a vision I had, The Giant gave me the clue "Without
    chemicals he points"-

Judge:  -any relation to The Dwarf ?

Coop:   Dunno. Anyway, we took The One Armed Man over to the Great Northern,
    after having deprived him of some unknown medication, where he freaked
    out when Mr. Horne entered the room.

Judge:  Did he actually point at Mr. Horne ?

Coop:   Well, no, he didn't point per se, but he did sort of do something
    with his arm.

Judge:  [Holds up his hand and smiles] Dale... That's good enough for me.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Neuberger                                            mjn@sbcs.sunysb.edu

Wow!  This newsgroup sure is interesting to read these days, now that
the Killer Bob business has burst wide open and we're getting some fasci-
nating speculations about what these spirits are like and where they
come from--what I like to think of as the "metaphysics" of a good horror
tale, in other words.

For example, in Dennis Doubleday's article we have:
> >...The
> >"possession" by the spirit BOB is a symbol for the uncontrollable
> >compulsions that come over Leland.  At some point along the way,
> >Leland's compulsions have gone over the edge of molestation and into
> >torture and murder.  Leland may not be aware conciously of the things
> >he does when he is his other self; he could be a dual personality
> >(more Twin imagery?).  But at some subconcious level he is aware and
> >feels deep grief over his actions, even though he cannot control his
> >compulsions.  This would explain the earlier train car scene, in which
> >BOB appears to be howling in anguish over the dead body of Laura.

OK, I can readily buy that *Leland*--who is a human being, after all--
has an escalating madness which he is aware of, on one level, and
genuinely abhors.  But what about *Bob*?  Does the spirit Bob have
any compassion, any regrets, any kinship at all with us--or does he
just treat us like *cattle*--or like playthings, as one poster suggested?

--Fiona Oceanstar

In article <SCHOUTEN.90Nov15135605@sp17.csrd.uiuc.edu> schouten@sp17.csrd.uiuc.edu (Dale Schouten) writes:
> >
> >   From: carey@m.cs.uiuc.edu (John Carey)
> >
> >   *The vicuna might point to Bob Lydecker, who apparently keeps llamas.
> >   *(another episode I missed)
> >
> >Actually, though several people seem to be making this assumption,  I see
> >no reason to believe this.

Especially since Bob Lydecker has been in a coma.

-- Scott Amspoker | Basis International, Albuquerque, NM | "I'm going out for a sandwich" (505) 345-5232 | - Ben unmvax.cs.unm.edu!bbx!bbxsda!scott |

Pardon me a moment while I rave over a recent posting that I found
very entertaining...

First off, there is this provocative question by Mike Miller:
>> >>I really think it's past time for them to get rid of the BOB plotline.
>> >>There seem to be plenty of other plots going, so why do they keep
>> >>dragging this out?

Hey--let's forget all about voting for Ben vs. Leland as the human host
who killed Laura Palmer, and argue about *this* one instead.  Seriously!

I was surprised that Mike could ask this question, since from my narrow
point of view I was really celebrating the ascendancy of the BOB
plotline, since it adds a whole new layer of complexity to the show--a
layer that has been hinted, before, in moments like Cooper's famous
dwarf dream, but never developed to this extent.  I see "Twin Peaks" as
breaking free of the restraints of its chosen genre focus--soap
opera/mystery--and moving into a larger, more ambitious territory.

But is this just my own twisted view?  Are there people out there in the
newsgroup who agree with Mike, who think the BOB plotline is a wash-out
of some kind?  I'm curious about this--I really am.

                    *    *    *    *    *

In defense of the BOB plotline, then, Michael J. Carlin writes:
> >I believe you have misunderstood the writers' intentions.
> >We all have a dark side that we usually keep in control.
 ...
> >Anyone who has seen the classic science fiction film Forbidden Planet
> >should recognize BOB.  The relation between the alien mind machine and
> >Dr. Morpheus is similar to that between BOB and his host.  Both the
> >alien device and BOB amplify the emotions and remove the emotional
> >controls of the user or the host, allowing the monsters in the id to
> >come to the surface.  In Forbidden Planet, the invisible energy
> >creature brought to life by the alien device carried out Morpheus'
> >dark, suppressed urges, whereas in Twin Peaks, the host carries out the
> >vile acts himself.
> >
> >The question of who or what is BOB, while interesting, is unimportant
> >to understanding Twin Peaks.  What is important is understanding BOB's
> >effect on his host.

Great stuff about "The Forbidden Planet," which is not a bad analogy.
Too bad that the psychoanalytic theory sounds so rusted and creaky to
the modern ear.  It's still largely valid, after all.

I don't agree with Michael, though, about who-or-what-is-BOB? being
uninteresting.  Why can't we be fascinated by BOB's effect on his host--
on the psychological issues that you have so eloquently described--and
ALSO, at the same time, be raising questions on what BOB is all about.
We can analyze Leland *and* analyze BOB!  Is he really *evil,* for
example?  I've haven't been convinced, in his previous films, that David
Lynch is expecting us to see his villains as *evil*.  So many of his
supposedly "bad" characters--like Frank in "Blue Velvet" or Billy Peru
in "Wild at Heart"--combine both fearful and pitiful qualities.  That's
why I think it's so important that we try to figure whether or not Bob
has anything resembling a human psyche.

By the way, on the issue of whether BOB has a heart: one of the
interesting tidbits about the UFO community's joint description of the
"visitors" they have encountered is that they are always felt to be
*utterly* without compassion.

                    *    *    *    *    *

A last, more light-hearted thought:

You know how they're saying that BOB *feeds* on fear and the pleasures.

I don't know about y'all, but I'm getting tired of these beings that
feed on fear.  They're just vampires in another guise.  But unlike the
vampire/blood connection, we never get a good explanation for how *fear*
provides nutrition.  You'd think if these creatures were so advanced and
all, they'd have figured out something a little more subtle to munch on.
I mean, why can't BOB feed on mild anxiety? or boredom? or silliness?

If *I* were a disembodied spirit forced to thrive on emotions in the
"Twin Peaks" universe, I think I'd try to thrive on bewilderment.
There's always plenty of it around in the sheriff's department. :-)


                                             --Fiona Oceanstar

   Brian O'blivion here. My name came up on this newsgroup in the past.
I inhabit a human host, and am taking  your time away momentarily.
I am dead, but still live on television. The videotapes that contain
my image warp reality to my whim. You may have seen me in the film
Videodrome. Remember that a computer is also a television.
The one person my readers suspect less than Cooper is themselves.
Hahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaa!!! All hail the new flesh!

In article <39543@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU>, jbuck@galileo.berkeley.edu (Joe
Buck) writes:
> > Just the same, Lynch and Frost are portraying a small logging town
> > here.  Is anyone really asking that he portray things that do not
> > exist in such towns in the interest of not offending anyone?  If TP
> > were an absolutely realistic portrayal of such places we'd see a lot
> > MORE sexism portrayed.

Considering that Twin Peaks has got to be the most unusual small
town around, I don't see that "expressing reality" is much of an
excuse for it to be sexist.
-- c2h5oh@ucscb.ucsc.edu | "The forces of evil can marshal even | more support than the forces of good, | especially when pizza is served."

     Some brief yet interesting Twin Peaks notes.  Kimmy Robertson
(Lucy) was on KROQ this morning.  While she refused to reveal any
substantial information (claims she doesn't know what's going on)
she did have a few interesting anecdotes.
 
1.   Apparently there was a scene explaining why the Navy personnel
     were bouncing the rubber balls at the Great Northern.  For
     some unknown reason the scene was edited out. [It must have
     something to do with General whats his name and that space
     research stuff].
 
2.   No one on the set knew that Piper Laurie was playing the part
     of the Chinese businessman.  Jack Vance was very disturbed by
     this new character and kept asking fellow cast members "where
     did they get this weird person."
 
3.   It is Lucy's theory that Sarah Palmer is psychic and because
     of this BOB was forced to incapacitate her before inhabiting
     Leland.
 
She also hinted that there may be a possibility that BOB has
utilized Ben Horne as a host.  So we may not be absolutely certain
who killed Laura.  Although the Hollywood Reporter recently
theorized that Maddy was Laura, and since Leland killed Maddy he
really killed Laura.  In which case, the real question all along
has been "Who Killed Madaline".
 
In interviews various cast members have been hinting that the next
three episodes will be the strangest yet.
 
We'll see.

In article <1990Nov14.164422.5278@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> kevin@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Kevin Schraith) writes:
> >The name on the posted memo list for agent Cooper was D.B. Cooper.  Maybe I
> >am just high, but wasn't that the name of the man who skyjacked a jet, took
> >$200,000 in ransom, and then bailed out somewhere over the state of Washington
> >and was never seen again?  I am not sure if we have been shown Dale's
> >middle name, but it could begin with a 'b'.  

Just today, I saw some fliers around town (Seattle) for the "Annual 
D.B. Cooper Scavenger Hunt"

:-)
Jespah

From: svihla@evax0.eng.fsu.edu (C. Kurt Svihla)

> >...  We also know that the log lady's husband died the day after they
> >were married.  Judging from her apparent age of 60 or so, this would also have

*Sixty* or so??  She looks more like 40 to me.  

> >... "My husband was a logging man.  He met the devil. The devil is fire,
> >hidden in smoke." ... 

Just thought I'd mention that the line actually reads:
"Fire is the devil, hiding like a coward in the smoke."

Better cadence that way, with the strange twist of "coward" thrown in.

Though I really shouldn't be correcting other people's quotes when I myself
actually forgot the "She's filled with secrets" line from the speech by
the Man From Another Place.  And I knew that line, too!  My brain crashed,
I guess.  Oh well.

In about a week I'll post some more additions and corrections to the quote
list.  Please continue sending me your favorite quotes from new episodes
(and old ones too).

Jespah

From: KJA102@psuvm.psu.edu
*As I recall, there was a clue in the 11/3 episode about a vicuna coat
*(the person who shot Cooper was supposed to be wearing one)  If I am
*not mistaken, the white animal on the windowsill in Ben Horne's office
*was a vicuna.  Leland took a piece of fur from the animal and put it in
*his pocket.

Huh?  That was a small white carnivore of some sort.  A vicuna is a large,
brown-with-a-white-belly hoofed quadruped related to the llama, with a very
long thin neck and very long thin legs.

For those who care (all 2 of you) there are four of those llama-type animals,
or at least, 4 that I know of.  Biologists insist on calling them "camellids"
and indeed they are related to camels and have much the same attitude problems.
They are the llama (which is a domestic animal), the alpaca, the guanaco, and
the vicuna.  The vicuna is the wildest and the most threatened.  They are all
from South America.

Llamas have recently become very popular in the U.S. as pack animals.  They
carry more than horses, eat less, and are less destructive on the mountain
paths they travel.  It's become common to see llamas in mountain towns...once
I was galloping a horse along a dirt road in the Green Mountains of Vermont,
and all of a sudden these two llamas appeared out of nowhere, SPITTING at my
horse.  My poor horse just about had a heart attack (and I nearly broke my
neck!).  Horses and llamas do not seem to get along.

Thus it is not as weird as it sounds for a vet in a mountain town
to be treating a llama.

Jespah

> > I'd hate to lose this feeling of duality between the
> > supernatural and the ordinary.  It gives us a richer
> > basis from which to draw up images.
.-.
|E|xactly.  (The rest of your article was right on the money too!)
`-' There are non-supernatural explanations for most of what's
    going on in _Twin_Peaks_.  The rest works well as a mystery.
.-.
|N|o need for vampire owls from outerspace.  Just a tad of extra-
`-' sensory perception (just a tad, mind you) can explain it all.
    Well, everything but the Major's message.

/F356/<_Jym_Dyer_>/B893/A972/F83/H25/N729/F387/G298/O37/X235/Q734/
/X243/K822/L262/B23/THE/OWLS/ARE/NOT/WHAT/THEY/SEEM/B383/L947/M84/
/M867/B586/K389/O98/AND/I/LIKE/WHALES/N37/B88/L867/P213/N297/B957/
/W482/jym@mica.berkeley.edu/I55/K387/P987/R80/Z903/Y983/O092/C381/

.-.
|I|nteresting theory.  Check out the diary:  Laura got into drugs
`-' because they seemed to be a good BOB-away.
    <_Jym_>

/F356/<_Jym_Dyer_>/B893/A972/F83/H25/N729/F387/G298/O37/X235/Q734/
/X243/K822/L262/B23/THE/OWLS/ARE/NOT/WHAT/THEY/SEEM/B383/L947/M84/
/M867/B586/K389/O98/AND/I/LIKE/WHALES/N37/B88/L867/P213/N297/B957/
/W482/jym@mica.berkeley.edu/I55/K387/P987/R80/Z903/Y983/O092/C381/

> > Does one eat one's cherry pie hot or cold and with or
> > without cream/custard etc.
.-.
|I|t can be hot or cold, usually depending on the season.  It will
`-' typically be available cold, with the option to heat it.  One
    often puts whipped cream on top of it.

> > Is it traditional or is there a damned good reason for Lucy
> > laying the doughnuts out in piles of two or three.
.-.
|I|t isn't traditional.  A popular stereotype about American
`-' police is that they're always hanging out at donut shops.
    Upon closer examination, one finds that they're usually
    there for the coffee.
.-.
|T|he donut setup in _Twin_Peaks_ works from this stereotype.
`-' It's a joke about a police officer's dream come true:
    Donuts!  Donuts!  Donuts!

> > Where can I buy a damned fine coffee?
.-.
|B|elieve it or not, there's a franchise in America called Dunkin'
`-' Donuts, which has the best damned coffee I've ever found out-
    side a coffeehouse.  Just come to America and follow the
    police cars.

/F356/<_Jym_Dyer_>/B893/A972/F83/H25/N729/F387/G298/O37/X235/Q734/
/X243/K822/L262/B23/THE/OWLS/ARE/NOT/WHAT/THEY/SEEM/B383/L947/M84/
/M867/B586/K389/O98/AND/I/LIKE/WHALES/N37/B88/L867/P213/N297/B957/
/W482/jym@mica.berkeley.edu/I55/K387/P987/R80/Z903/Y983/O092/C381/

.-.
|H|is bearing reminded me of Catherine.  The way he moves his
`-' head, the places he sets his arms, and his general shape
    and size.  Still, I wasn't very sure.
.-.
|I|t seemed to me that the Mr. Tojamura character was indeed
`-' heavily made-up.  Whether it was "too white" or not was
    hard for me to judge (I don't know how to adjust the
    color and tint on a TV, mostly because I don't know when
    the colors are quite right).

/F356/<_Jym_Dyer_>/B893/A972/F83/H25/N729/F387/G298/O37/X235/Q734/
/X243/K822/L262/B23/THE/OWLS/ARE/NOT/WHAT/THEY/SEEM/B383/L947/M84/
/M867/B586/K389/O98/AND/I/LIKE/WHALES/N37/B88/L867/P213/N297/B957/
/W482/jym@mica.berkeley.edu/I55/K387/P987/R80/Z903/Y983/O092/C381/

[F> = "Fiona Oceanstar"   M> = "Michael Kaufman"   D> = " Diane Hume George"]

F> Ben Horne, on the other hand, is such a jerk that I wouldn't
F> hesitate to call *him* a slut.
.-.
|Y|ou might not, and I've heard people refer to some men as sluts
`-' (or, more commonly, as "male sluts"), but it seems always to
    be less pejorative when applied to men.  Ben Horne can be a
    "slut" and still (as you say) charming.

M> Face it folks, she was acting slutty.  She was not showing a
M> "healthy" or "positive" attitude toward sex, she wanted to do
M> it on the floor in the jail with James.
.-.
|U|h, we don't know that for sure.  James felt as if she wanted
`-' to do it through the bars or something, but we really don't
    know that Donna wanted to do that!

M> Just as, if James had made this suggestion to Donna we would
M> call him (oh, I don't know), an asshole.
.-.
|Y|ou've underscored my point.  "Asshole" is a generic insult!  It
`-' doesn't carry with it any particular sex-is-bad-and-wrong-for-
    a-member-of-this-sex connotations like "slut" does.

D> [From a _Ms._ article:]  I, we, the trendy, twenty-thirty-and-
D> forty-something audience, are getting off on the sexually
D> tortured, brutally murdered, mutilated body of an adolescnet
D> girl. 
.-.
|G|etting off?  Is this serious?  One of the things I like most
`-' about _Twin_Peaks_ is that the things that happened to these
    women aren't about exploiting them.  They help us to feel
    real pain, rather than the numbness that typical TV violence
    engenders.

D> Laura is an active participant in her own corruption, and the
D> cause of fall in others. 
.-.
|T|his is a vast oversimplification.  Laura's "corruption" was one
`-' part of her; and it was always at odds with the other half.

D> Donna's mother, Mrs. Hayward, has no damned first name that I
D> know of.
.-.
|E|ileen, I believe.
`-'
D> We get treated to vividly suggestive scenes of Shelley's
D> beating and bondage.
.-.
|S|uggestive?  If Shelley's beating suggests anything, it's that
`-' men who beat women are bad news.  I found the Leo/Shelley
    storyline very valuable in that it shows some dynamics of
    an abusive relationship in a realistic way.  (The misogyn-
    istic salesrep was also a nice touch.)

D> There is Maddie, Laura's cousin/double, who is so much a parody
D> of innocence that you want to puke on her shoes . . .
.-.
|I| have a completely different view of Maddy, but I got it from
`-' the diary.  After all, she gave Laura her first cigarette
    (*gasp!*) and told her about French kissing.  And I think
    recent episodes show her as not so innocent, but rather
    wise about relationships.
.-.
|A|s a footnote, note that BOB/Leland's attack on Maddy has
`-' nothing to do with her being corrupt or promiscuous.

/F356/<_Jym_Dyer_>/B893/A972/F83/H25/N729/F387/G298/O37/X235/Q734/
/X243/K822/L262/B23/THE/OWLS/ARE/NOT/WHAT/THEY/SEEM/B383/L947/M84/
/M867/B586/K389/O98/AND/I/LIKE/WHALES/N37/B88/L867/P213/N297/B957/
/W482/jym@mica.berkeley.edu/I55/K387/P987/R80/Z903/Y983/O092/C381/

I was rewatching the scene with Catherine and the insurance man,
Mr. Neff last night and it struck me as interesting.  I think Catherine might be
getting help from him.  Mr. Neff asks her if there's "anything, anything at   
all" that her can do for her.  Shes says something like "well, you never know."
She also asks Mr. Neff if he is an ambitious man and he smiles.  How this ties
in with the original Asian man who is Tojamoura's assistant, I don't know.
It's just a posssibility, not a very likely one though.

Did anyone catch the movie "Electric Dreams" last Friday on TBS?      
Starring Lenny Von Dohlen?  Pretty lame movie but he was nice in it.  Also nice
to see another Lynch actress in it, Virginia Madsen [Dune].

During last seasons The Nation Enquirer said that the killer was Ben  
Horne.  Does anyone have this article and the details of it?  I guess the
Enquirer was wrong for once, unless...

-The Disco Strangler

Are you going to give us the other half of the gif?
Or are you going to let us suffer the pain of suspense?
You must think you're David Lynch.

Thanks if you do.

In article <1990Nov16.032419.28872@rice.edu> fi@whittaker.rice.edu (Fiona Oceanstar) writes:

   If *I* were a disembodied spirit forced to thrive on emotions in the
   "Twin Peaks" universe, I think I'd try to thrive on bewilderment.
   There's always plenty of it around in the sheriff's department. :-)

You'd be better off as a disembodied spirit who feeds on doughnuts . . .
--
Hal PetersonInternet:  hrp@cray.com
Cray Research, Inc.
655F Lone Oak Dr.
Eagan, MN  55121  USATelephone:  +1 612 683 5440

It is happening again.

        This is an odd question; given Lynch's tendency to have truly 
outrageous characters on the show, let's consider Albert's behavior.  Did 
he
        (A) Make up that whole thing about his being a 'peaceful 
warrior,' and "I love you, Sherriff Truman," to save his personal hide, 
or,
        (B) Is Albert, in true Lynchian style, a true 'peaceful 
warrior,' except that he is also the most grating and obnoxious 
personality one should ever meet?
        What's your opinion?
_________________________________________________sig 32________________
Elf Sternberg      | Didja ever realize that if it wasn't for Newton
elf@halcyon.wa.com | we wouldn't haveta eat bruised apples?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From the very beginning I've known who really killed Laura Palmer, but
until this last episode I've not had enough evidence to prove my
theory... yes you guessed it:

JULIE CRUSE KILLED LAURA PALMER!

As you will recall Julie Cruse appeared in the pilot episode and the
latest (11/10) where a large portion of the show was devoted exclusively
to her. This directly relates to Lynch's statement about "finding out
who killed Laura Palmer in the 11/10 episode".

I recently purchased Julie Cruse's new album and upon playing it
backwards several times I have successfully deciphered the following
messages:

I ate the chair
Shoelace forest tops
I killed Laura Palmer

Although the first two messages are a little confusing to the untrained
observer the third is an obvious confession of the murder of Laura
Palmer.

I have also managed to find and purchase one of the only `Really,
Really, Secret Diary of Laura Palmer' (The one that still has not been
discovered in the show yet). On page 34 it states:

"She is in him, who is in me. It
wouldn't be so bad but he hates the
damn singing-- he hurts me. She
excites me most of all, more than
Josie, Ben, James, Bobbie, Leo,
Jaque, Johnny Horne, Daddy, Shelly,
Andy, Hawk, and even Waldo. But,
as kinky as she is, Julie's dangerous!
I'll have to watch it...Oh daddy's
coming I'd better go."

---L

This only confirms my theory that when the swarm of red herring clears
everyone will clearly view Julie as Laura Palmer's true killer.

AND I SAID IT FIRST!!!


"Wanna buy a bridge?" - Jacoby

First,

,-.
|I|s there some automatic program to generate this annoying little
`-' posting idiosyncracy from paragraphs of normal text, so we can ALL
    do it in ALL our messages?  Or is it handcrafted every time?  

 :-) :-)  peace Jym  :-) :-)

Now to business...

 * Perhaps the blue drug's purpose is to help the user SUPPRESS or fight
being taken over by inhabiting spirits; or maybe to fight against the
influence of certain *kinds* of spirits.  Gerard feels faint in the
stationhouse, heads to the bathroom, and tries but apparently fails to
inject himself; afterwards it appears to be MIKE saying "BOB I know
you're out there."  So, was the drug to keep MIKE away, or BOB?  Then in
the hospital we see Ronette coming out of her coma and seeing horrible
visions.  Later we see Cooper and Albert coming into her room and
noticing the blue IV.  So, which is cause and which effect?  Was the
blue stuff put there to GIVE her the vision, or to fight it?  Also,
either way, was the vision "good news" or bad?  For instance, did her
coma represent enthrallment to the evil spirits, until MIKE administered
the drug and dragged her out of it kicking and screaming?

 * I disagree with Newell that this stuff makes no sense.  I think it
makes all too MUCH sense... only you can't be lazy about watching, or
you won't be able to keep up.  Which is definitely out of character for
network TV!  Some people like their mysteries laid out all neat and
schematic with no distractions; but that's not the only valid approach.
I think Newell's grousing about red herrings and unseemly Lynch-worship 
is mostly sour grapes.  TWIN PEAKS is not like MTV or blue jeans
commercials, which truly do pander to viewer mindlessness.  PEAKS just
panders to viewer weirdness.  Lynch has always had a love-hate rep, and
we're seeing it in action here.

 * Audrey's life isn't worth a plugged nickel now.  Ben would rather
have her out of the way than risk his empire, I betcha.

 * I don't think it matters what gestures MIKE seemed to be making when
his host Gerard collapsed, because he had ALREADY pointed!  When the
blue drug wore off and MIKE first took over, in the interrogation scene,
Cooper slides the BOB drawing in front of him and MIKE emphatically
sticks his finger out and POINTS to Bob's face!  Close up shot of this.
I think THAT was the exact fulfillment of the prophecy "without
chemicals, he points."  Remember that the Giant's predictions are not
clues in themselves, but reminders of predestination like Jesus saying
"you will deny me thrice before the cock crows."

 * Speaking of special effects, did you notice that they sped up the
action (by frame culling) when Nadine lifted that refrigerator door?
The suggestion of superhuman strength was amusing, even if they're not
fooling anyone.

-- "NASA Announces New Deck Chair Arrangement For \_/ Tom Neff Space Station Titanic" -- press release 89-7654 \_/ tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM

In article <39597@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> jbuck@galileo.berkeley.edu (Joe Buck) writes:
> >contains violence against women.  I would prefer that violence be depicted
> >as Twin Peaks does it, with all the horror that that violence really has,
> >than in the sanitized form that the rest of the media portrays it in
> >(exception: Hawk's knife in the back to rescue Coop and Harry at OEJ's.
> >I thought the TP gang were above that).

...i think everyone who keeps mentioning this is being a little too
critical of the show...they surely weren't going to be able to rescue
audrey w/o some sort of confrontation, and there was one involving
hawk and the knife...what would u have preferred?...julee cruise
crooning in the background?...how else would u have written it?...i
think they realized a confrontation was necessary, and made it short,
sweet, & to the point...like it should have been

console cowboy

In article <2423@byron.ed.ac.uk> lorraine@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Lorraine Leddy) writes:
> >The UK Version of Twin Peaks now has a mailing list set up so if there is
> >anyone out there who is interested in joining us mail:
> >
>> >>twin-peaks@UK.AC.DARESBURY<


Bzzzt. Wrong answer. It is of course:

twin-peaks-request@uk.ac.daresbury. 

Standard practise on most mailing lists is to have a seperate
address for subscription requests so people already on the list don't
have to wade through people's messages asking to be added/removed.
Tony

-- Tony Cunningham, Edinburgh University Computing Service. tjc@castle.ed.ac.uk If a man among you got no sin upon his hand Let him cast a stone at me for playing in the band.

This should be my last post to alt.tv.twin-peaks since I'm unsubscribing --
the volume of posts is overwhelming! [Sorry to add to the clutter]
I just wanted to thank the people who took the time to submit the
interesting posts:

1) The revelation that Waldo Lydecker was the name of Laura's murderer
   in the movie _Laura_ starring Gene Tierney. I'm REAL ticked the 
   bird didn't do it.

2) The report that Senor Droolcup was in _The Searchers_ and gave a 
   similar speech there to the one he gave the fallen Cooper. I like 
   to think that the ghost of Natalie Wood haunts the set of TP.

3) The parallels between Streiber's _Communion_ and the owl imagery in
   Twin Peaks. Streiber sounds like that unique American type: the
   huckster/believer. A stand-in for David Lynch.

4) All the fantastic, laborious, intricate hallucinatory analyses. True
   net heroes. 

Finally, I'd like to suggest a destination for TP and I hope this will
sound as cracked as anything I've read here: bring Laura back. In TP
time, it will soon be Easter...and they didn't bury her deep enough!

Also -- if you aren't a lit type, take the time to read Robert Frost's
two great stories of the supernatural "The Witch of Coos" and "The Pauper
Witch of Grafton." I know...they're verse...poems....but if you read
those you might read his odd, genuinely horrifying "Directive." 

Thanks for the posts.
-- Jeff Davis davis@keats.ca.uky.edu Nobody knows, from sea to shining sea, why we are having all this trouble with our republic.

I haven't been reading a.t.t-p very long, so sorry if this has come up before
(hell, what hasn't come up here).  Somebody told me that Lynch has at least
acted in interviews like a serious Reagan-styled rightwinger, a real old
fashioned macho-type guy.  I laughed pretty hard about it then, but that was
before the questions about sexism in TP.  What's the deal?  

Another point, more directly about the show:  the TP community does not strike
me as role model material on ANY count, sex roles or anything else.  Lynch is
painting a pretty dismal world here, for whatever reason, not exactly the 
socialist realist approach to TV. In the middle of all the greed, corruption,
violence, deceit, etc., a progressive set of gender roles would not fit the
pattern.  One of Cooper's early mistakes was seeing TP as an idyllic place,
wasn't it?

Excerpts from netnews.alt.tv.twin-peaks: 14-Nov-90 Re: Who BOB is Scott
Amspoker@bbxsda.UU (872)

> > I also get the impression
that BOB's past involves a fire tragedy.

You mean, like Freddy Krueger?

______________                  _____________________________
Bob Glickstein                | Internet: bobg@andrew.cmu.edu
Information Technology Center | Bitnet:   bobg%andrew@cmuccvma.bitnet
Carnegie Mellon University    | UUCP:     ...!harvard!andrew.cmu.edu!bobg
Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890    |
(412) 268-6743                | Sinners can repent, but stupid is forever

.-.
|I| doubt it.  He says he rejects revenge and retaliation, yet
`-' according to Gordon Cole, Albert wanted Truman's badge.
    Then again, Gordon might have misheard Albert. :-)

/F356/<_Jym_Dyer_>/B893/A972/F83/H25/N729/F387/G298/O37/X235/Q734/
/X243/K822/L262/B23/THE/OWLS/ARE/NOT/WHAT/THEY/SEEM/B383/L947/M84/
/M867/B586/K389/O98/AND/I/LIKE/WHALES/N37/B88/L867/P213/N297/B957/
/W482/jym@mica.berkeley.edu/I55/K387/P987/R80/Z903/Y983/O092/C381/

In article <11225@milton.u.washington.edu>, jespah@milton.u.washington.edu (Kathleen Hunt) writes...
> >From: svihla@evax0.eng.fsu.edu (C. Kurt Svihla)
> > 
>> >>...  We also know that the log lady's husband died the day after they
>> >>were married.  Judging from her apparent age of 60 or so, this would also have
> > 
> >*Sixty* or so??  She looks more like 40 to me.  

* I know some 40 year-old women - Margaret looks older than that to me.  Norma
(Peggy Lipton) is about 40 - do she and Margaret appear to be coeval? I
may have been stretching it a bit to fit my theory, but, hey, even Einstein
fudged a little.  Besides, I was referring to the age of the character, not the
actress - I think we can allow for a few years of discrepancy.  Sherilyn Fenn
is 25, after all, (I think) and she's playing a character who's all of 17 or 18
I still think there must be a connection between the death of the LLH and BOB.

>> >>... "My husband was a logging man.  He met the devil. The devil is fire,
>> >>hidden in smoke." ... 
> > ...
> >Just thought I'd mention that the line actually reads:
> >"Fire is the devil, hiding like a coward in the smoke."
> > 
> >Better cadence that way, with the strange twist of "coward" thrown in.
> >...
> > Jespah

* Thanks for the correction. I was quoting from an imperfect memory, and should
have indicated a paraphrase.     - K.
______________________________________________________________________
  C. Kurt Svihla    |                                                 |
SVIHLA@EVAX.ENG.FSU |                SPACE AVAILABLE                  |
____________________|_________________________________________________|

jespah@milton.u.washington.edu (Kathleen Hunt) writes:

> >Though I really shouldn't be correcting other people's quotes when I myself
> >actually forgot the "She's filled with secrets" line from the speech by
> >the Man From Another Place.  And I knew that line, too!  My brain crashed,
> >I guess.  Oh well.

> >Jespah

The double bonus question:
Can anybody quote all the instances that somebody says something
about "secrets"?

I can think of MFAP, Cooper with Albert, Cooper and Audrey, Jacoby, 
there must be more.
--
John Carey
University of Illinois
Dept. of Computer Science
carey@a.cs.uiuc.edu
{uu-net,pur-ee,convex,...}!uiucdcs!carey

.-.
|I|'ve heard that Lynch was conservative and like Reagan, but I've
`-' never heard the details.  I can imagine Lynch liking Reagan as
    some kind of retro-icon, as somebody who went far with kitsch.
.-.
|L|ynch can't possibly be a standard-issue Republican, though.
`-' He's too negative about society to be a "it's morning in
    America" Reaganaut.  He may be negative enough about human
    nature to reject a lot of liberal ideas, though.

/F356/<_Jym_Dyer_>/B893/A972/F83/H25/N729/F387/G298/O37/X235/Q734/
/X243/K822/L262/B23/THE/OWLS/ARE/NOT/WHAT/THEY/SEEM/B383/L947/M84/
/M867/B586/K389/O98/AND/I/LIKE/WHALES/N37/B88/L867/P213/N297/B957/
/W482/jym@mica.berkeley.edu/I55/K387/P987/R80/Z903/Y983/O092/C381/

Before we decide if twin peaks is sexist we must answer a simple question.
(Forgive me if it does not have simple answers.)  Should television reflect
real life or influence it?  Yes, it's a "What came first, the chicken or
the egg?" problem.

My answer is that in this case art reflects life.  And, since Lynch/Frost
choose to reflect disturbing aspects of life, in this case it would be
sexist if they did not depict sexism, and the behaviors that lead to
sexism.  Using a broad definition of sexism (anything damaging to one of the
sexes) I think we have been exposed to quite a bit of disturbing sexism.
Leo beats Shelly.  Audrey learns to use sex as a weapon.  James appears
incapable of dealing with women who are not "sweet."  There are more;
the point is that TP is reflecting these disturbing realities, and not
in the usuall sanitized manner.  (Neither is it propaganda.)  To
paraphrase Agent Cooper, "In Twin Peaks death is not a faceless thing."

Likewise any disturbing facet of life is not a faceless thing.  While we
did not actually see Leo beat Shelly, the immediatly preceding scene was
one of the most disturbing in the series.

As a short asside, remember that a major theme of TP is that things are not
as they seem.  Laura started out as pure as new fallen snow.  (pun
recognized after the fact.)  If you're looking for female role models
your not likely to find them here, nor will you find a male role model.  It
just wouldn't last.  Everyone has tragic faults, and everyone has redeeming
qualities.  I believe that it is the play between them that is so interesting.
Doug van der Veen
dv0o@andrew.cmu.edu

Did anybody ever think that the vicuna outside Coop's room could
have been from a vicuna coat, and have nothing to do with llamas
or Bob Lydecker. I took it as a clue that Jonathon, he of the Oxford
educated British accent and obviously expensive clothing, shot Coop.
Owen Byrne
obyrne@ac.dal.ca

Jeez, 99% of the messages here are about the Twin Peaks newsgroup, but
no-one's talking about twin peaks!

British readers stop here!!!!!!!!!  Spoilers ahead!

This

is 

your

last

chance!!!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------



So, we know that "Bob" is the bad guy, and we know whose body "Bob" was in
at the violent end of last week's episode.  The question is, has Bob been
in the same body all month (/year/decade), or can he inhabit anyone's body
at will?

This way Andy's body still _could_ have killed Laura.  I like Andy a lot,
but I really like that theory, too...
-- Fred Hamilton Any views, comments, or ideas expressed here Harris Semiconductor are entirely my own. Even good ones. Santa Clara, CA

In article <2902@dali> icsu8297@ming.cs.montana.edu (Wilbanks) writes:

    JULIE CRUSE KILLED LAURA PALMER!

This, of course, is the evil twin of Julee Cruise, fitting in well
with all the other twins in Twin Peaks!

-30-
Bob

``Let's rock!''

In article <1990Nov15.204653.22265@isis.cs.du.edu> kreme@isis.UUCP (Fred Zeats IV) writes:
> >In article <1990Nov14.191303.10529@evax.arl.utexas.edu> cs4344af@evax.arl.utexas.edu (Fuzzy Fox) writes:
>> >>In article <1990Nov12.202422.2164@axis.dsg.ti.com> mccarty@aaet.csc.ti.com (Rick McCarty) writes:
>>> >>>Hey dude!  The NAME of a group has nothing to do with the ability to get
>>> >>>a feed.
>> >>This is not strictly true. 
> >
> >Actually, this is not true AT ALL.  The reason that the deisgnations exist
> >is so that entire classes of groups can be excluded.  Many machines do not
> >receive the alt groups at all.  many don;t receive talk groups.  That's why
> >the heirarchy exists.
> >
> >-- 
> >| kreme@nyx.cs.du.edu |Growing up leads to growing old, and then to dying, and|
> >|---------------------|dying to me don't sound like all that much fun.        |
> >| It is the spectator and not life, that art really mirrors.   Oscar Wilde    |

Still, I believe my point stands.  If you don't have it, you can most surely
get a feed for it SOMEWHERE!  The name does not PREVENT you from obtaining
a feed.

--Rick

In article <1990Nov14.204627.29016@axis.dsg.ti.com> mccarty@aaet.csc.ti.com (Rick McCarty) writes:
> >In article <2511@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU> bchurch@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU (Bob Church) writes:
>> >>
>> >>go. In fact, the book shows a printout of the .newsrc for the authors machine,
>> >>the WELL ( not his machine actually, but the one he uses ) which is administered
>> >>by Stewart Brand. It includes the rec. groups but not alt.
>> >>
> >
> >Are you perhaps confusing the READING of news with its TRANSMISSION?  (I'll
> >
I mention .newsrc to show what was available to the author, not what could
possibly become available. Judging by the mail I am receiving many people 
did not read the original post. It stated that the naming of a newsgroup
had nothing to do with it's availability. 

bob church
bchurch.oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu

Fiona Oceanstar hang me out to dry with:
> >Bill Donahue has some very intriguing things to say:

> >You are prepared to accept an "evil" that can possess our souls at will?
> >What a thought, Bill!  I'm not sure Dale Cooper would agree with you.

Psychoanalytic fight!! Psychoanalytic fight!! No, I bet you would demolish
me rather quickly.

But isn't it a theory that what we label "evil" are those internal traits
which cannot be accepted and so must be projected outside? True, the BOB
entity has become rather a "Jason" character from some Saturday matinee
instead of something more interesting like the shadow of some communal
guilt shared by the town. At Laura's funeral, Bobby said the whole town
was to blame for her death. I hoped that Andy's "I'm a whole damn town."
had echoed that.

> >He feels devastated right now.  His job is to uncover and stop the murderer,
> >and he's failing miserably.  I can't imagine that he's going to be able
> >to sit back and enjoy his pie and cup o' coffee, when the feeling of
> >impotence--the feeling of the hero fallen from grace, as others have
> >suggested--is flooding into his awareness.  If Cooper goes back to being
> >"naive" and finding Twin Peaks "heaven"--which I'm not at all sure that
> >he *does* anymore, even before Maddy's death--it's going to take a major
> >effort of denial on his part.  He is, first and foremost, a lawman.

Well, what did he respond to the judge when challenged just that way?
Something like "Heaven can be very large." Or something like that.
Coop strikes me as rather more laid-back. Sure he messed up, but he won't
obsessively dwell upon it. Just take another jelly donut and some hot Joe
(or maybe a chocolate malted from Bob's Big Boy) and make another go at it.
In the pilot, Truman says "We lost them." and Cooper just replies "Give me
a donut." Now good old Albert, on the other hand, seems like he might
become very upset at any failures and would be rather energetically upset,
even to the point of projecting the failures on those around him.

> >I'm not saying I can't identify with your lovely description about "seeking
> >out the good and the pleasant."  I'm just wondering if this desire, on
> >Cooper's part, doesn't contain an element of flight from reality.  This

Like I tried to suggest later, Cooper has found his rightful place: a
quirky person in the midst of other quirky people! What is so sacred
about reality that it shouldn't be fled from, at least occasionally!

> >is a man who is haunted by his past.  His admirable quality of wanting
> >to give himself a present every day, may contain a secret core of fear.

I thought it was just good common sense.

> >Could it be that Cooper is tired, ready to give up being an FBI agent?
> >Is Twin Peaks his fantasy of the place to prove his prowess, one more
> >time, before hanging up his hat?  Twin Peaks is a quirky place.  It
> >may not oblige Cooper in this fantasy.

Well, if Bend Oregon can have a district office, then maybe the thriving
metropolis of Twin Peaks ...

In article <4bEzbDu00VsnQeaUtG@andrew.cmu.edu> bobg+@andrew.cmu.edu (Robert Steven Glickstein) writes:
> >Excerpts from netnews.alt.tv.twin-peaks: 14-Nov-90 Re: Who BOB is Scott
> >Amspoker@bbxsda.UU (872)
> >
>> >> I also get the impression
> >that BOB's past involves a fire tragedy.
> >
> >You mean, like Freddy Krueger?

It's hard to say.  I've never seen any of the Freddy Krueger movies.

-- Scott Amspoker | Basis International, Albuquerque, NM | "I'm going out for a sandwich" (505) 345-5232 | - Ben unmvax.cs.unm.edu!bbx!bbxsda!scott |

Please excuse any gaffes as this is my first post, and I'm suffering from some
kind of gastrointestinal disorder so my brain is a little foggy.  I also can't
find my notes on confining distribution so please, any British viewers who
do not want to find out what is currently happening, logoff.

I have read a few articles about possible child abuse.  Since I have not been
able to find a copy of the diary I have obtained this information from this
net.  However, no one seems to agree whether she was abused by her father or
not.

saseph@segovia.unx.sas.com (Ed Hughes) writes:


> >I agree--BOB apparently is present when Leland is violent.
> >It's strange, though, that Jacoby doesn't recall a burning
> >smell from the park, because I'm almost certain that it was
> >Leland who attacked him.  Of course, maybe BOB only cares to
> >show up when killing is going to be done.  He *is* Killer Bob,
> >after all--he's got his image to think about.
> >Why a smell of scorched engine oil?  Perhaps the person who
> >BOB once was died in some kind of car fire.  Or maybe BOB
> >just stands for Burning Oil Boy.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

You should rewatch Jacoby's hypnosis scene again.  Jacoby cleary changes his
story.  He states that the burning smell was not in the hospital, but rather
earlier that evening when he was in the park.  Which indicates that Jacoby
was attacked by ?/BOB while Jacques was killed by Leland/Leland.

Kiwl da wabbit!  Kiwl da wabbit!  Kiwl da wabbit!
-- Elmer J. Fudd
-- +--------------||--##--%%--@@------+--------------------------------------+ |El-Rayo-X-----||--##--%%--@@----->| Brain! Brain! What is brain! | |El-Rayo-X-----||--##--%%--@@----->| --Star Trek (Spock's Brain) | +--------------||--##--%%--@@------+--------------------------------------+

Someone I work with took the TP plot/characters and tried to describe
the relationships using some pretty advanced design management software.
It turned out to be too complex and made no sense!  TP has EXCEEDED
the state of the art! (Oh my!)

===========================================================================
Rick McCarty              "My BOB the car..."
mccarty@aaet.csc.ti.com                                       :-)~*|>
===========================================================================

In article <27370@megaron.cs.arizona.edu> gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary Newell) 
writes:
> > Yeah - great, everyone loses as the show takes the easy way out... I'm
> > impressed...

Yeah, great, everyone loses AS YOU CONTINUE TO POST TO THIS GROUP!

Why do you do it?  Why do you watch the show if you hate it so much?  Are 
you some sort of masochist?  Why don't you watch a show that you can 
appreciate, like "Tiny Toons" or "Captain Planet" and leave the rest of us 
alone?

Better still, the next time Twin Peaks comes on, why don't you turn off 
the TV by shorting it out at the outlet with your tongue.  Instructive for 
you, and a much needed relief for the rest of us, eh?


--
Lefty  (lefty@twg.com)              |          "And you may ask yourself,
D:.O:.D:., C:.M:.C:.                |             'How do I work this?'"

In article <6040@mace.cc.purdue.edu> salmons@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Joe 
Salmons) writes:
> > What's going on with the perspective when Maddy enters the room? As soon as
> > she sees Leland, he turns into Bob.  Does this mean that she's damned--since
> > the OAM said the damned could see Bob's real face?

Considering the way she got thrown around the room, I'd say she's, at the 
very least, having a bad day...

--
Lefty  (lefty@twg.com)              |          "And you may ask yourself,
D:.O:.D:., C:.M:.C:.                |             'How do I work this?'"

Well, it is possible that the other girl was killed by Leland.  He works for
the Great Northern, and it can be that he simply took a business trip there and
then BOB took over.


Lynette Lake
UIC <U51657@uicvm.uic.edu>

"Not to mute."

I agree with playing it at your wedding.  I am getting married next year, and
plan on having it played at mine, too.  My fiance loves it, too, which is nice.
As a matter of fact, I like it so much that I bought the cassette single of it.
It isn't annoying, and anyone who thinks so must not truly get into TP.

Lynette Lake

One reason for BOB killing Laura is that he is a "punisher".  Leland found out
what Laura was doing, and BOB took over and punished her for doing "wrong".
Could also be why he killed (is she really dead?) Maddy for leaving, because
Leland felt that it was wrong for her to leave.
Just a theory....

Lynette Lake
U51657@uicvm.uic.edu

In article <1990Nov16.010856.17629@sbcs.sunysb.edu> mjn@sbgrad6.cs.sunysb.edu (The Sixth Replicant) writes:
> >Judge:  And why exactly did you feel Mr. Horne might be responsible for Ms.
> >    Palmer's death ?
> >
> >Coop:   Well, in a vision I had, The Giant gave me the clue "Without
> >    chemicals he points"-

Nonsense.  Laura's diary stated something like "I have to tell the world
about Ben Horne."  Audrey revealed that Ben was sleeping with Laura, and
the question of who the third man who had sex with Laura the night she
was killed is still unresolved.  They had plenty of cause to bring Ben
in for questioning.

-paul asente
asente@adobe.com...decwrl!adobe!asente

Bibles can ALWAYS be obtained FOR FREE from Hotels, Church
organizations, the Gideon Society, thrift stores, and your parents'
house.  Be advised that in certain instances theft is a moral
obligation.

In article <1990Nov15.220859.9590@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> svihla@evax0.eng.fsu.edu writes:
> >
> >[stuff deleted] Now given BOB's putative penchant for pyromania, isn't
> >it perfectly proper to posit that he set some huge blaze, maybe in the forest,
> >that the log lady's husband (hereafter LLH) died trying to extinguish? Along
> >with maybe some other people? And maybe BOB himself?

Is it even possible that LL's husband IS BOB (or MIKE)?

===========================================================================
Rick McCarty                                    "TP is reaching new peaks!"
mccarty@aaet.csc.ti.com                                 :-)~*|>
===========================================================================

In message <3314@jaytee.East.Sun.COM> bdowning@otc.East.Sun.COM (Bill Downing - Sun BOS Human Resources) writes:

> >Any truth to the rumor that TP will be pre-empted 11-24-90 by the Notre Dame foo
> >tball game??

I called ABC here in Los Angeles, and they said that Twin Peaks WILL be
preempted on November 24. They will be showing a movie instead.
I assume the same thing will be happening all over the country.

> >How many episodes of TP will be shown this season total?

The L.A. Times reported last Monday that ABC ordered 9 more
episodes to make a full season of Twin Peaks. I assume this
means that there will be 22 episodes.
--
-- Dave Coufal -- coufal@piglet.caltech.edu

"Is this real, or some strange and twisted dream?"
- Jerry Horne, _Twin Peaks_

> >In article <1990Nov14.164422.5278@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> kevin@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Kevin Schraith) writes:
>> >>The name on the posted memo list for agent Cooper was D.B. Cooper.  Maybe I
>> >>am just high, but wasn't that the name of the man who skyjacked a jet, took
>> >>$200,000 in ransom, and then bailed out somewhere over the state of Washington
>> >>and was never seen again?  I am not sure if we have been shown Dale's
>> >>middle name, but it could begin with a 'b'.  
> >
Just a note:  D.B. Cooper, the one successful U.S. skyjacker, carried out
his crime in the early to mid 1960's.  Also, portions of the ransom have
been found in the mud on the banks of the Columbia River.  If our Dale B.
Cooper is THAT D.B. Cooper, then he and Ron Reagan have been sharing
hair-care secrets.

That's not to say he couldn't be D.B. Cooper, _Jr._


-- D. Patrick Beckfield beckfdp@eros.network.com Network Systems Corporation Minneapolis, MN

@midway.uchicago.edu>
Sender: 
Reply-To: rcarter@isis.UUCP (Ron Carter)
Followup-To: 
Distribution: usa
Organization: Center for the Study of Creative Intelligence
Keywords: Summary, 11/10, speculations

Ooopppsss... Yep, Janet is right... It was Donna and Mike that were
going out... I mucked up...
Hmmm... I wonder if Donna and Bobby are going to get together for the
first time? ( Shared psychic shock? )    =-)

-- Ron Carter | rcarter@nyx.cs.du.edu Director | Center for the Study of Creative Intelligence Denver, CO | Knowledge is power; knowledge to the people.

Some of you may recall that toward the end of the initial season, 
and long before the Major disclosed his SETI connection, I posted a note to 
the effect that I believed Cooper was an alien (without knowledge of the 
fact), that some other characters were aliens, and that the ideas of alien 
visitation and alien abductions (killings, implants, etc.) were the basis 
underlying everything that goes on in Twin Peaks.  So much for setting my 
priority on the idea.

Now I want to extend that theory further.  I think virtually 
everyone in Twin Peaks is an alien, masquerading in one or more human 
skins.  I think it is a staging area for alien anthropology field teams that 
are checking out this planet.  Some points:

1) The government may not be in on it, but it's aware enough that 
something is going on to put a SETI listening post near Twin Peaks.

2) Cooper has unusual powers, as do several other Twin Peaks 
characters, yet his inability to remember his true origin as an alien and his 
deep cover role manifests in the childlike wonder with which he views the 
planet.

3) The various groups moving in and out (Icelanders, Norwegians, 
orientals, military units, etc.) are simply field teams coming and going 
about their business.

4) Bob is to the alien community what Lucifer is to Christian 
mythology -- the fallen angel, the renegade.  Mike is the good angel and is 
doing battle to prevent Bob from creating further damage and frustrating 
the purpose of the mission.  But Bob is good at what he does and therein 
lies the main conflict in the Twin Peaks saga.

5) Some of the key townspeople, such as Ben Horne and Sheriff 
Truman, are local organizers of the alien expedition and are responsible for 
the flow of personnel and information.  Ben Horne has the hotel, of course, 
which is a perfect cover for lots of travel; and Harry Truman has the 
communications capability to monitor what's happening.

6) The giant is probably the head of the alien task force and 
manifests himself to Cooper in an attempt to help Cooper restore his 
identify and to fight the renegade alien Bob.

7) The dramatic personality shifts (e.g., Donna) are probably due to 
problems associated with the aliens' struggle with their human identities.

8) One-Eyed Jack's is simply a lab for observing human behavior 
under special conditions.

9) The owls are similar to the AI animals in Blade Runner -- 
observation mechanisms placed about to keep track of particular activities 
under investigation.

I could go on (and on . . .), but you get the idea.  Next episode, watch 
for data that fits the theory -- pretty soon you'll see that almost 
everything fits!  Any takers out there?


-- Gary Knight Technology Strategy Section MCC gary@mcc.com 3500 W. Balcones Center Dr. phone 512/338-3694 Austin TX 78759-6509 fax 512/338-3898

In article <46647@apple.Apple.COM> barr@Apple.COM (Ron Barr) writes:
> >Does anyone else feel gratified that most of the loose ends so far have been
> >tied together? For example, early on it looked like the Theresa Banks,
> >Ronette Pulaski, "Fire walk with me" and dwarf dream sequences were fun
> >interesting visuals not particularly related to anything.
> >
> >Now it looks like Frost & Lynch had a pretty clear notion of where they were
> >going from the beginning and that a lot of yet to be tied loose ends are
> >part of a central vision. I'm pretty impressed.

Funny, I had the same thought over lunch.  I don't think they've tied
up many loose ends so far.  However, I am noticing that some details
from early episodes appear to point to events in recent episodes.
This would appear as though Frost/Lynch really did have much of 
story laid out in advance.  On the other hand, they could merely
be doing a good job at writing new episodes that correlate with
older episodes.

-- Scott Amspoker | Basis International, Albuquerque, NM | "I'm going out for a sandwich" (505) 345-5232 | - Ben unmvax.cs.unm.edu!bbx!bbxsda!scott |

            Here is my theory, (which is mine, ahh-hmm).



            David Lynch is really Thomas Pynchon.  They both have been      
     linked to the Pacific Northwest (Seattle) and seem to have the same
     interests in conspiracies and popular culture.  My theory is that
     Pynchon got tired of doing purely literary work and wanted to do 
     something visual. Now since film-making is a collaborative art and
     he wanted to keep his Pynchon anonymity, he just developed the
     Lynch character (who would fit nicely in a Pynchon novel).  Maybe
     this is all performance art.  Now I'm sure someone can prove me
     wrong in a zillion ways, but just think about it ...

In article <46647@apple.Apple.COM> barr@Apple.COM (Ron Barr) writes:
> >Does anyone else feel gratified that most of the loose ends so far have been
> >tied together? For example, early on it looked like the Theresa Banks,
> >Ronette Pulaski, "Fire walk with me" and dwarf dream sequences were fun
> >interesting visuals not particularly related to anything.

What was the Teresa Banks sequence?  I wasn't aware that we knew
anything about Teresa directly--only what Coop (and later Albert) have
to say about her.

-- Rod Johnson * rjohnson@vela.acs.oakland.edu * (313) 650 2315 "You will never hear surf music again" -- Jimi

In article <4781@trantor.harris-atd.com> chuck@trantor.harris-atd.com 
(Chuck Musciano) writes:
> >      My local paper (Orlando Sentinel) reported sightings of T-shirts 
that
> > said "Laura Palmer was bored to death".  No mention of how to obtain one.

In the 11/3 USA Weekend magazine (it comes in my Sunday Denver Post), the back page had the name of the group selling these T-shirts and how to obtain them.

/ shippert@nntp-server.caltech.edu (Tim Shippert) /  2:07 pm  Nov 12, 1990 /

> >                              I was amazed at the power in the last few
> > scenes.  Maddy's murder was the most brutal thing I have ever seen on TV;
> > it wasn't the "fun" violence that you see on cop or action shows, or even
> > on regular "dramas".  It rang very true, with the sickening sounds of
> > impact and the force of the blows, and the crying and confusion and horror
> > of it all.

I felt the same as you did. However, the part of Maddy's attack which made the
biggest impression on me was when Maddy actually broke free of Leland/BOB's
grasp for a few seconds and ended up in the far right corner of the room behind
a stool. Unable to run very fast because of her shoes, skirt, or fear, she
looked absolutely helpless even when it looked like she might escape by
running past BOB to his right. Sheryl Lee's performance was wonderful; she was
absolutely terrified and, to me, managed to convey an intuition that she *knew*
she couldn't escape even when it looked like she might.

Mark Collier

mccarty@aaet.csc.ti.com (Rick McCarty) writes:

> > Still, I believe my point stands.  If you don't have it, you can most surely
> > get a feed for it SOMEWHERE!  The name does not PREVENT you from obtaining
> > a feed.

Yes, 'tis true.  I'll feed anyone wishing to get *anything I carry--as long
as they pay the phone bill.  I think 'feed' is analogous to 'free feed' in
this discussion; some folks get upset if it's suggested they make a toll
for news.

*within baudrate and quantity restraints, due to limited line access

--
  TANSTAAFL

Thre traffic to alt.tv.twin-peaks is becoming huge, and a large part of this is
because of people posting excerpts from the diary.  The diary isn't helping,
it's pages can support any theory!  Please discuss excerpts from the super-
secret diary in alt.tv.twin-peaks.diary.
:wq!

In article <27234@cs.yale.edu> long-morrow@CS.YALE.EDU (H. Morrow Long) 
writes:
> > I have heard that TP starts earlier than 10PM in Mountain and Pacific time
> > zones, is that true?

Nope.

10 pm out here on the Left Coast.


--
Lefty  (lefty@twg.com)              |          "And you may ask yourself,
D:.O:.D:., C:.M:.C:.                |             'How do I work this?'"

In article <1990Nov11.203117.865@ceres.physics.uiowa.edu> jak@ceres.physics.uiowa.edu writes:
> >
> > For all his talents, Lynch is not an astronomer. Cooper filled us in that
> >about 13 days have passed during the course of the show. In one of the first
> >few episodes, we saw a full moon, and again last night we saw the full moon.
> >Now, it's quite impossible to go from full moon to full moon in two weeks.
> >And we saw other phases of the moon that were just as out of place...

yes, i think i first noticed this when the moon was full the night
of Audry's rescue, but then we had a half-moon the next night...

it bothered me a little too, but i can cope with the fact that
it would be prohibitive for them to have a whole library of
different shots of the moon in all it's phases just to keep
the continuity police happy.

-timr
-- And nothing ever happens Nothing happens at all The needle returns to the start of the song and we all sing along like before, and we'll all be lonely tonight and lonely tomorrow --Del Amitri

In article <61419@masscomp.ccur.com> danny@joisey.westford.ccur.com (Daniel Pearl) writes:
> >In article <10372@ur-cc.UUCP> brlw_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Chris Coleman's girlfriend) writes:
>> >>My friends and I were debating the same thing..whether the letter under
>> >>Maddy's fingernail was an "O" or a "D"..while the net consenus is an "O", we
>> >>went through the scene in slowmotion and frame by frame on the VCR a
>> >>couple of times and the letter is a "D". Only our humble opinion,
>> >>however.Can anybody else confirm it?
> >
> >When the letter first appeared, it seemed as though it was a "D", but 
> >several frames later, the letter appeared to be an "O".

My first reaction was also that it was a "D".  In reviewing the tape
in real time, it still looks like a "D" to me, but my freeze frame
was too grainy to confirm one way or another.

> >I figure the paper was a little bent in the middle.  When first seen,
> >we see the left side of the paper more edge-on than the right side,
> >yielding the phantom "D" effect...

i'll buy this, simply becuase i don't want to believe that BOB is
spelling out a personalized license plate.

also, with regards to the ``Where, then, is the missing "E"?''
question, my first thought was of Jacques.  But then how would
Albert have missed the letter?  (given that Leland/Leland didn't
have motive or opportunity to do it, but maybe BOB/? did).
and the fact that it's the wedding ring finger and always with
females seems significant--maybe there's been another murder/
battery in some other part of the state (or Canada) that's yet
to be revealed?

-tim(hmmm)r
-- And nothing ever happens Nothing happens at all The needle returns to the start of the song and we all sing along like before, and we'll all be lonely tonight and lonely tomorrow --Del Amitri

I rewatched the 11/10 episode this morning, and during the
murder scene, when Leland/BOB has chased Maddy into the living room,
she stands with her back to the windows for a moment just before he
grabs her.  The sound is heavily distorted and played at slow speed,
and the sounds don't match her lip-movements, so it's hard to tell
for sure if she's really articulating anything while she screams, but
it sounded a lot like she was saying "don't murder me BOB".

Did anyone else hear that?  Did anyone else hear words at
all?  (It was so distorted I could easily have misheard it.)

-- Evan A.C. Hunt evanh@sco.COMThe Santa Cruz Operation, Inc. uunet!sco!evanh (408) 425-7222 evanh%sco.COM@ucscc.ucsc.EDU

In article <0qyNs1w163w@darkside.com> kablooey@darkside.com (Blue Dragon) writes:
> >
> >Question:  I've noticed that it doesn't seem to be possible to see the
> >letter hidden underneath the fingernail from the top of the fingernail.
> >Do you think it's possible that the letter also doesn't cause any pain?
> >Maybe the missing "E" is underneath Jacoby's fingernail, and he just 
doesn't realize it...


Oh, my GAWD!  Have you ever had a splinter under the quick of 
your fingernail?  I squeaked with agony and hid my face when 
Cooper retrieved the letter from beneath Laura's nail in the 
very first show.  He sank those tweezers DEEP under the nail. 

And if Leland/BOB needs to insert the letter with an exacto 
knife, you *know* he's cutting flesh that is extremely sensitive -- 
what do you think we have fingernails *for*?

--Barbara 

--
Barbara HlavinOh I am a cat that likes to 
twain@blake.acs.washington.eduGallop about doing good.
U Washington JC-21/Seattle 98105  -Stevie Smith

A while ago someone posted a uuencoded file containing the sound of
Leo's "thhpt  new shoes" bit for IBM PC's.  I uudecoded it and dezip'ed
it on my PC but it did not produce an executable.  Is there some program
to run to get the sound out or what?

(Sorry but I don't have the original posting, else I would send e-mail to
the originator).

Please e-mail response.

/ brinkman@si194b.llnl.gov /  1:16 pm  Nov 12, 1990 /

> > As a brief aside, it is interesting to note that Maddy's visions foretold her
> > own death:
> > 
> > 1) Maddy "saw" Bob attacking her and
> > 
> > 2) Maddy saw a blood stain on the living room carpet of the Palmer house in
> > the same place that she was lying at the end of 11/10.

Would someone please remind which episode it was in which Maddy saw this
bloodstain? I've been paying close attention to Twin Peaks, really I have,
but I just can't seem to remember this event, even though nearly everyone
else seems to remember it.

Thanks,
Mark Collier

In <8296@gollum.twg.com> lefty@twg.com ("Lefty") writes:
> >In article <27234@cs.yale.edu> long-morrow@CS.YALE.EDU (H. Morrow Long) 
> >writes:
>> >> I have heard that TP starts earlier than 10PM in Mountain and Pacific time
>> >> zones, is that true?
> >Nope.
> >10 pm out here on the Left Coast.

It does, however, start at 9 p.m. in the Mountain and *Central* time zones,
as most network shows are synchronized to start at the same time on the
coasts (East and West).  Those of us in Hicksville get everything an hour
"earlier."

This means that by 10 p.m., we have THREE hours before the bars close at the
disgustingly early hour of 1 a.m.  Three hours to drink away our confusion,
if we can keep our alcohol down while thinking about BOB/Leland and 
Maddy/Maddie (um... how do you spell that????)
--
        ... Michael Ho, University of Nebraska
Internet: ho@hoss.unl.edu | "Mine... is the last voice that you will ever hear."

/ jespah@milton.u.washington.edu (Kathleen Hunt) /  6:10 pm  Nov 12, 1990 /

> >                                                       I like the Ben-is-
> > Laura's-father theory, especially if Sarah told Laura but Sarah never told
> > Ben!  So Ben doesn't even know that the Laura he molested and loved was 
> > actually his own daughter. 

This is an especially neat theory considering the parallel between it and the
fact that Ben almost had sex with Audrey, his "acknowledged" daughter!

Mark Collier

Maybe the log lady's husband is bob.  Probably not, but what is the
LLH's real name?

-FL

shy@cbnewsk.att.com (susan.hallander) writes:

> > he knew the man in the picture? He remembered BOB as an old neighbor
> > of his, but the police can't find any record  of a Robert Robertson 
> > in the house next to the one Leland spent time in as a child - that's 

I'll bet that if you look at the Julee Cruise performance on a REALLY 
good VCR, you'll find that Robert Robertson is, after all, in The Band. 
In the next episode, they play "The Night They Burned Old Packard's Down" 
and "I Shall Be Possessed".

Joe Zitt...cs.utexas.edu!kvue!zitt!joe (512)450-1916