Season 2, Episodes 21–22: Miss Twin Peaks / Beyond Life and Death — June 10, 1991–August 27, 1992

I have one of the Donut Discs.  It is pretty cool, a jelly donut on a grass
background.  It fills the entire disc.  I was offered $50 from a record store
for it once, but I kept it.  I doubt I could get that cash now, but the disc
is pretty cool.

-------
Erick S. Dyke -- GE Simulation & Control Systems
EMail : dyke@lakevuew.dab.ge.com
"GE Aerospace -- We make the BEST video games in the world"

This is sort of a followup to Fiona's original post, where she
notes similarities between GY and other King works.

As I watched Dr. Toddhunter (what a name!), I kept thinking
"This guy would make a great Dr. Wanless", the 'mad doctor' form
Firestarter.  Nice and weird/intense.  

But when he was in  the waiting room outside the general's office
he was tearing strips out of magazines... who else do we know
that has this endearing habit?  The psycho in "The Langoliers", 
Craig Toomy!  Maybe  it's not exactly the same habit, but
watching the show brought that to mind...

On a slightly different subject, but similar:  as we know, Stephen King
often uses similar mannerisms/habits in characters;  the example I'm 
thinking of is stuttering.  The boy in The Shining that Jack Torrance
punches out, the boy that Johnny Smith tutors in The Dead Zone, 
Bill Denbrough in It, probably others I've missed.  Does anyone know
if SK has some personal contact with stuttering - did he do it himself
or some close associate?  I'm not trying to psychoanalyze him;  it just
that it's shown up enough in his works to make me wonder...

On yet another note, has anyone gotten their copy of The Waste Lands
from Donald Grant?  I haven't and I need my SK fix!

Larry Samuels
samuels@nosc.mil

> > MacLachlan has already commented in print that as much as he's enjoyed
> > the collaborations with Lynch over the years, he doesn't want people to
> > think "that's the only kind of acting I can do"--or I suppose, to think
> > that he's only a Lynch-controlled commodity.
> >
> > He may have higher
> > ambitions, as an actor, than that.  Who knows...  I'm bummed out,
> > though.  I thought the prequel idea was a good one.
> > 
> > --Fiona O.


Well, I think Lynch and company could still do the prequel without
Cooper.  Just end the prequell with the stock footage we've already
seen of him, as he firsts drives into Twin Peaks talking to Diane...



--
rj pietkivitch   |   "Aces!"  -- Agent Cooper
att!ihlpz!rjp1   |

In article <sue051w164w@cellar.UUCP>, al@cellar.UUCP (Alex Yentner) says:
> >
> >odonnell_j@apollo.hp.com (Julie Erin O'Donnell) writes:
> >
>> >> How do we get organized? Where should we start? Are there still
>> >> enough people out there willing to get motivated?
>> >>
>> >> rah, rah, rah!
>> >>
>> >> (well, it's worth a try anyway)
>> >>
>> >> Count me in....
>> >>
>> >> julie

Count me in too!!  Let's go!
.

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Kit Aikin                   /\    kja102@psuvm.psu.edu           "
Penn State University       /\                                   "
   "To his dog, every man is Napoleon; hence the constant        "
    popularity of dogs." --Aldous Huxley                         "
                            /\                                   "
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

In article <28854E34.13185@orion.oac.uci.edu> dkrause@miami.acs.uci.edu (Doug
Krause) writes:
> >In article <1991Jul17.141913.2299@grebyn.com> fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Oceanstar)
writes:
> >#comparison of mad scientist to Norman Bates
> >
> >The doctor seemed just a bit like Emilio Lizardo to me.

Be careful who you insult, monkey boy!

> >Douglas Krause                      One yuppie can ruin your whole day.

-Perfect Richard

Seen in a recent issue of Private Eye (the pinnacle of British Humour)
was another of it's regular columns of topical Rhyming Slang:

Yes, It's Twin Peaks Rhyming Slang!
===================================
FBICherry pie
New ShoesSame time as News
Lynch, DavidMust be rabid
"Twin Peaks"Plot creaks
Mark FrostEveryone's lost
Agent CooperWomen think super
ShelleyGlued to telly
Audrey HornePorn
Dirty MacsOne-Eyed Jacks
Man from Hong-KongWasn't in it long
Palmer, LauraBit of a snorer
One-armed manRatings down the pan
Tibetan TheoriesNo third series
The White HorseInspector Morse
(He was last time, Ed.)



I suppose this might be a bit irreverent and contentious for this 
column, but that's just what Private Eye is.

A friend suggested I post it (thomasson@cheers.gs.com) - flames to him,
please.

marcusj@apricot.co.uk

In article <18JUL91.00280479@skycat.usask.ca> friesenda@skycat.usask.ca writes:
> >
> >I agree with others;  we MUST have Kyle as Cooper.  No one else would do.
> >And he must 'get the girl' so to say.  I think Cooper has had enough grief
> >in his life.  He and Annie deserve each other (by the way, is Annie the
> >girl of anyone else's dreams!!).
> >
> >Darryl Friesen
> >Instructional & Research Applications
> >Department of Computing Services
> >University of Saskatchewan
> >friesenda@sask.usask.ca

Wait a minute here -- I agree that Kyle should remain as Cooper, since he
'created' the role, but how can you say "he must 'get the girl' so to say?"
Now you are dictating major plot decisions to the creators of Twin Peaks--
decisions that Lynch/Frost might not agree with.  I can understand that you
might not like the way the story is going, but remember, it's not your story
to tell -- it's Lynch/Frost's story, and they should be allowed the artistic
freedom to do what they please.  Now one might argue that Kyle has some right
to what goes on as well, since his character has long been the integral factor
to the story (and the series' success, judging from his popularity here!), but
I certainly don't believe that we, the viewers of the show have the right to
decide what should or shouldn't happen on a Lynch/Frost production.  If you
have differing views, do your own project, as it seems a few people are already
beginning.  But I think it would be dangerous to start a letter writing 
campaign which dictates a set of 'demands' concerning what the supposed next 
Twin Peaks project should contain -- I know if _I_ was Lynch, I would certainly
feel infringed upon.

Let's definitely voice our opinion that Twin Peaks shouldn't die -- but let's
also put some trust in Lynch & Frost to do the right thing for the show --
after all, it's because of them that we're all still here, isn't it?

Dave

Aside from the possibility of finding an autographed card
in the Limited Edition set, what exactly is the difference 
between the Limited Edition _Twin Peaks_ Collectible CardArt and
the regular _Twin Peaks_ Collectible CardArt?

--
Alexander Aingworth/as215 -- Cleveland FreeNet

'It's a far, far better thing I do, than I have ever done before
A far better resting place I go to, than I have ever known'

Are Cooper's Diane Tapes available on LP or compact disc,
or has SImon and Schuster only released them in cheap, audio
cassette format?

--
Alexander Aingworth/as215 -- Cleveland FreeNet

'It's a far, far better thing I do, than I have ever done before
A far better resting place I go to, than I have ever known'

Well the traffic on a.t.tp has slowed down, cosiderably. I guess most
everyone has given up on the movie, as well. 

I'll pose the following question(s) to see if there is anyone still interested,
out there. Here it goes,


When LMFAP announces the arrival of yet another friend of Coop's, Maddy,
he appears to be somewhat shaken, if not downright frightened.

Why does LMFAP hide behind the chair when Maddy comes in?
Where does this scene take place? The Waiting Room, Black Lodge, or ...
What's Maddy doing there? Re: she warns Coop about her cousin, Laura.
Could it be that what we see is not Maddy? Perhaps a figment of Coop's
imagination? Or even Bob or WE disguised as Maddy?

All responses are appreciated (well, more or less!).

Jamsheed
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
  "Inconceivable!"
  "You use that word a lot.  I don't think it means what you think it does."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In article <9107181740.AA11101@cwns2.INS.CWRU.Edu> as215@cleveland.Freenet.Edu writes:
> >
> >Aside from the possibility of finding an autographed card
> >in the Limited Edition set, what exactly is the difference 
> >between the Limited Edition _Twin Peaks_ Collectible CardArt and
> >the regular _Twin Peaks_ Collectible CardArt?
> >
> >--
> >Alexander Aingworth/as215 -- Cleveland FreeNet
> >
> >'It's a far, far better thing I do, than I have ever done before
> >A far better resting place I go to, than I have ever known'


It is my firm belief that the Limited Edition just means
the cards all come together in one neat little package as
opposed to buying them in small packs of ten or so...
at least this has been the case with other types of 
collectors cards....

could be wrong though.... it happened once before....

:-)
julie

> >
> >
> > From: hafken@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (David Hafken)
> > Date: 18-JUL-1991 17:21:48
> > Description: Re: ONE IDEA
> >
>> > >I agree with others;  we MUST have Kyle as Cooper.  No one else would do.
>> > >And he must 'get the girl' so to say.  I think Cooper has had enough grief
> >
> > Wait a minute here -- I agree that Kyle should remain as Cooper, since he
> > 'created' the role, but how can you say "he must 'get the girl' so to say?"
> > Now you are dictating major plot decisions to the creators of Twin Peaks--
> > decisions that Lynch/Frost might not agree with.  I can understand that you
> > might not like the way the story is going, but remember, it's not your story
> > to tell -- it's Lynch/Frost's story, and they should be allowed the artistic
> > freedom to do what they please.  Now one might argue that Kyle has some right

> > beginning.  But I think it would be dangerous to start a letter writing
> > campaign which dictates a set of 'demands' concerning what the supposed next
> > Twin Peaks project should contain -- I know if _I_ was Lynch, I would
> > certainly feel infringed upon.

I didn't mean to 'dictate' what Lynch/Frost should do with their story.
I was simply expressing what I would personally LIKE to see happen.  I respect
Lynch's genius, and wouln't think of questioning it.  The writers obviously
have a sense of how they wish the story to progress; unfortunatly we do not.
So despite how annoying a plot decision may seem at the time, I am content
to sit back and wait to see what becomes of it;  generally a much more
enthralling show.

Nor did I mean we should use this letter writting campaign as a means of
attempting to 'get what we want'.  That is alltogether the WRONG thing to do
in our situation, and could very well have the opposite effect of what we ALL
what, ^Twin Peaks^ back on the air.

I was simply trying to express my personal feelings, but I obviously didn't
do it very effectivly.  I hope this clears things up a bit.

Darryl Friesen
friesenda@sask.usask.ca

 I'm in too. i haven't beem reading this net long but anything to bring it
back.

In article <kcV4Hju00WBN40wH1H@andrew.cmu.edu> sw2k+@andrew.cmu.edu (Sharon Lee West) writes:
> >Are we all just going to sit passively by and watch this go down the tubes?
> >  [...]
> >Now is the time to work on Lynch/Frost.
> >
> >SO Kyle doesn't like the way his character is going.
> >Well I think I might just agree with him.  [...]
> >
> >So why don't we write Lynch/Frost Productions, possibly suggesting a
> >Secure-Kyle-Even-If-It-Means-Re-writing Plan of Action.
> >
> >Is anyone with me?

YES!  A letter writing campaign to Lynch/Frost is probably a good idea.  They
probably feel a bit beset and depressed by all the bad turns things have
taken, so a bunch of very positive mail encouraging them to do whatever it
takes to make it work might actually have an effect.

I wonder if a massive letter writing campaign directly to Kyle might also have
an effect?  If he's really concerned about what is happening to the character,
then the positive support might make him reconsider; however, if he is afraid
of being typecast, and wants to leave Dale Cooper behind the way Sean Connery
left James Bond behind, then a lot of "fan" mail might only serve to
strengthen his convictions.  Anybody have any inside insights, other than the
mass media fluff?

And speaking of inside insights, where is COOP?  Uh, hey, Bob Cappell... you
certainly used to read a.t.tp... what's going on?  Don't mean to beat up on
you, but this is TP's darkest hour to date, and some concerted action would
certainly seem to be called for!  Are you still in touch with Lynch/Frost?
Is there any hope left?  How can we have the most beneficial effect?

I think I'm going to try contacting Lynch/Frost directly.  Perhaps nothing
will come of it, but if there's any useful feedback, I'll certainly pass it
on.  Maybe I can find out how to get telegrams to Kyle, and we can act
quickly on this.
-- -larryy@apple.com "You wouldn't recognize a *subtle plan* if it painted itself purple, and danced naked upon a harpsichord, singing, 'Subtle Plans are Here Again'." - Edmund Blackadder

News handlers being what they are, there's no telling which you'll get first,
but I already responded to this once today, but that posting was "spooled
for later processing".  In the past this has caused postings to disappear
forever, or, on other occasions, to be delayed mere minutes.  Ah, the vagaries
of life and unix...  Anyway, the basic response was yes, and how about Kyle
too, and maybe I'll try to talk to Lynch-Frost.

In article <kcV4Hju00WBN40wH1H@andrew.cmu.edu> sw2k+@andrew.cmu.edu (Sharon Lee West) writes:
> >Are we all just going to sit passively by and watch this go down the tubes?
> >  [...]
> >Now is the time to work on Lynch/Frost.
> >
> >SO Kyle doesn't like the way his character is going.
> >Well I think I might just agree with him.  [...]
> >
> >So why don't we write Lynch/Frost Productions, possibly suggesting a
> >Secure-Kyle-Even-If-It-Means-Re-writing Plan of Action.

Well, after contacting Lynch-Frost, I guess this isn't such a good plan.

Basically, the receptionist (and mail-handler, so she has a vested interest
in preventing mail campaigns:-) informed me that:

* The decision is, of course, Kyle's personal decision.  [no arguing with that]

* The movie is officially NOT cancelled, but "on hold".

* Lynch-Frost very much wants to make the film, and are doing everything they
  can to make it happen, so please spare them a write-in mail campaign.

* Mail would not reach Kyle in time to affect his decision, and they [she?]
  felt it would be better NOT to try telegrams or any such thing at this
  point in time.

* What they all need right now is "a little space".

The woman who answered the phone and spoke to me did not seem particularly
happy to be conversing with the general public (though I did explain very
briefly that I would pass on the information to the Usenet folks who helped
out so much with the ABC letter writing campaign).  I hope the rest of the
L-F team are not that demoralized, or harried, or whatever.

It occurs to me that if mail won't help in time, then final decisions on the
movie may be coming real soon.

So, it looks like we've naught to do but wait for the other shoe to drop.
Sigh.  I do wish there was something we could do to affect the outcome of
all this.
-- -larryy@apple.com "You wouldn't recognize a *subtle plan* if it painted itself purple, and danced naked upon a harpsichord, singing, 'Subtle Plans are Here Again'." - Edmund Blackadder

I met the actor who played Neff, the insurance agent featured in a bit 
part in last year's season. A heck of a guy.

                         -Uzer

sw2k+@andrew.cmu.edu (Sharon Lee West) writes:

> > Secure-Kyle-Even-If-It-Means-Re-writing Plan of Action.
> > 
> > I'm sure they could come to some agreement.
> > Maybe they just need to be reassured how important it is to us.
> > Then again maybe you've all lost interest. The net sure has been quite.
> > Is anyone with me?
> > 
Yes yes yes!  Anyone still have that address?


 This is from
     kbays@bluemoon.uucp
     kbays@bluemoon.rn.com
who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet

In article <4249@nosc.NOSC.MIL> samuels@halibut.nosc.mil (Lawrence J. Samuels) writes:
> >As I watched Dr. Toddhunter (what a name!), I kept thinking

Actually, it's Todhunter. Which makes me wonder if this is, in some way,
a reference to Dr. Tod, the man who killed Jetboy in the first "Wild Cards"
novel.

Also, Harlan strikes me as being a Harlan Ellison reference..

in addition..

Twin Peaks reference in ep. #2: gee, a diner with donuts. coffee. earlier
(in #1) we get an owl, weasel.. and music that sounded, oh,
Badalamentiesque? (there's a word....)

This thing is rife with TP references. It really wants to be TP badly. Well,
as far as summer shows go, it's impressive, but it's certainly nothing great.
And it's a sad excuse for Twin Peaks, even at TP's lowest points. I can only
hope that "Golden Years" perks up once the flight of the three main characters
begins...

-jason

-- Jason Snell / jsnell@ucsd.edu / University of California, San Diego "I wake up in your room, share one piece of your life. When tomorrow comes We may not be here at all, without your whispers and moans.. Here you come to carry me home." -- Crowded House

Just heard that TP got 4 nominations. One for Kyle M. I didn't catch
what the other three were for.


Louie

In article <1991Jul18.124230.14688@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov>, nmr1248@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Nancy Rabel) writes...

} And how is it that the female head of security knows that the one guy 
} from "the shop" killed Macgyver.

Because she'd worked with him before, and she knows how he works. She didn't
so much *know* as she "strongly suspected".

} By the way who or what is "the shop".

"The Shop" is King's change-the-name-to-protect-the-guilty version of the
standard CIA nickname: "The Company", though in King's milieu, it
specifically deals with weapons research. In his novel FIRESTARTER, he
explains that the nickname was derived from the A.E. van Vogt science
fiction novel THE WEAPON SHOPS OF ISHER.

-- "Right now it's only a notion, but I think I can get money and make it into a concept, and then later turn it into an idea." --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA) boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM or ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian

In article <18453@chaph.usc.edu> ramos@aludra.usc.edu (Luis Ramos) writes:
> >
> >Just heard that TP got 4 nominations. One for Kyle M. I didn't catch
> >what the other three were for.

Actually, there were 5.  ABC got one for its work with Twin Peaks in 
"Most effective destrution of a television show by creative scheduling 
manipulation."


Rocky Giovinazzo

This line (addressed to Cooper just before his hand trembles) stuck in my
head because it was so quaint, even for Harry: "Bless my soul, I never knew
your mind to wander." ( I don't have copies of the tapes so I could have
the pronouns wrong).  Seems like soul blessing and mind wandering are both
actually pretty relevant topics--in TP if your mind wanders your skull may
be filled by someone else's.  Does this seem like it was a real hint of
things to come or am I just desperate for new plot discussions?

Laurel Stvan

In article <14740043@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> daq@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom) writes:
> >As for Annie, I find her about as attractive as William F. Buckley.

Ouch'


Louie

In article <1991Jul18.144352.9344@dialogic.com> gerry@dialogic.com (Gerry Lachac) writes:
->
->So are we saying that people actually like _Golden Years_?  It made me
->want to vomit because the acting was so bad.  Maybe it wasn't the
->acting itself, but the lines the actors were given.  Take the two
->assistants in the beginning as a good example, or the mad doctor.
->
->It came across as a Twin-Peaks wanna-be.  Especially the scene of the
->liquid in the cup (was it coffee?) fading into another scene.

Did I miss something here?  When I watched this show, never for an instant
did I sense any resemblance to TP.  I guess I missed out on the subliminal
messages to TP fans in the commercial.

But wait a minute...I get it, there were trees in both of them, right?

Actually, it was pretty good for a screenplay of a SK novel.  Which unfor-
tunately isn't saying much.

jimbo

In article <1991Jul18.160812.20781@cbnewsc.cb.att.com> rjp1@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (be here now) writes:
>> >> MacLachlan has already commented in print that as much as he's enjoyed
>> >> the collaborations with Lynch over the years, he doesn't want people to
>> >> think "that's the only kind of acting I can do"--or I suppose, to think
>> >> that he's only a Lynch-controlled commodity.
>> >>
>> >> He may have higher
>> >> ambitions, as an actor, than that.  Who knows...  I'm bummed out,
>> >> though.  I thought the prequel idea was a good one.
>> >> --Fiona O.

> >Well, I think Lynch and company could still do the prequel without
> >Cooper.  Just end the prequell with the stock footage we've already
> >seen of him, as he firsts drives into Twin Peaks talking to Diane...

OK, here's how we get around the lack of our leading man (at least until
Lynch/Frost can come up with the $$ redefine his career goals).

Opening scene: screen filled with twin mountain peaks, but instead of the
richly forested mountains we all know, these are like giant sand dunes...
a desert devoid of life.  We hear guttural Lynchian shrieks...dinosaurs?  or
sandworms?

Gradually the camera pulls back.  The shrieks increase in pitch.  We come 
to see the true location:

The sandbox.  Little Dale Cooper, happy as can be, playing with his favorite
shovel and pail.   As he claps his chubby little hands with glee, the camera
pulls back further, giving us the Suburban Playground tableau, kids playing,
running, skipping.  We see children on the teeter totter, on the jungle jim,
on the swings,  --but wait a sec, what about that kid on the swing set?  The 
one with the gray hair, and the greasy Levi jacket, hey, isn't he a little old
to be...Listen kid, you shouldn't be playing with matches, you could...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA....

"Twin Peaks: Look Who's Talking"  

jimbo

fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Oceanstar) writes:

I liked this show a lot, and will keep watching it. The writing seems better
than most TV, and the directing is quite good. I liked the way that in the
first regular episode (GY1001?) the shot of the aquarium turned into the
the shot of the rat cage.

> > And wasn't it neat, the way they worked in David Bowie's "Golden
> > Years"?

Yeah... especially the cheeeeezy version they played in the waiting room!
It is happening again.      It is happening again.      It is happening again.
Joe Zitt ...cs.utexas.edu!kvue!zitt!joe (512)450-1916

Well, here's a third attempt to post a reply to this.  Our news system has
been real flaky last couple of days.  Fortunately I saved the posts when
the system claimed my articles were being "spooled for later processing".
By now, a lot of folks have enthusiastically endorsed the letter writing
campaign as I did at first; but read on...

---------------------------------------------------------------------

In article <kcV4Hju00WBN40wH1H@andrew.cmu.edu> sw2k+@andrew.cmu.edu (Sharon Lee West) writes:
> >Are we all just going to sit passively by and watch this go down the tubes?
> >  [...]
> >Now is the time to work on Lynch/Frost.
> >
> >SO Kyle doesn't like the way his character is going.
> >Well I think I might just agree with him.  [...]
> >
> >So why don't we write Lynch/Frost Productions, possibly suggesting a
> >Secure-Kyle-Even-If-It-Means-Re-writing Plan of Action.
> >
> >Is anyone with me?

YES!  A letter writing campaign to Lynch/Frost is probably a good idea.  They
probably feel a bit beset and depressed by all the bad turns things have
taken, so a bunch of very positive mail encouraging them to do whatever it
takes to make it work might actually have an effect.

I wonder if a massive letter writing campaign directly to Kyle might also have
an effect?  If he's really concerned about what is happening to the character,
then the positive support might make him reconsider; however, if he is afraid
of being typecast, and wants to leave Dale Cooper behind the way Sean Connery
left James Bond behind, then a lot of "fan" mail might only serve to
strengthen his convictions.  Anybody have any inside insights, other than the
mass media fluff?

And speaking of inside insights, where is COOP?  Uh, hey, Bob Cappell... you
certainly used to read a.t.tp... what's going on?  Don't mean to beat up on
you, but this is TP's darkest hour to date, and some concerted action would
certainly seem to be called for!  Are you still in touch with Lynch/Frost?
Is there any hope left?  How can we have the most beneficial effect?

I think I'm going to try contacting Lynch/Frost directly.  Perhaps nothing
will come of it, but if there's any useful feedback, I'll certainly pass it
on.  Maybe I can find out how to get telegrams to Kyle, and we can act
quickly on this.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

News handlers being what they are, there's no telling which you'll get first,
but I already responded to this once today, but that posting was "spooled
for later processing".  In the past this has caused postings to disappear
forever, or, on other occasions, to be delayed mere minutes.  Ah, the vagaries
of life and unix...  Anyway, the basic response was yes, and how about Kyle
too, and maybe I'll try to talk to Lynch-Frost.

[I reincluded portions of the original posting here.  And it turns out
that both these postings did just disappear.]

Well, after contacting Lynch-Frost, I guess this isn't such a good plan.

Basically, the receptionist (and mail-handler, so she has a vested interest
in preventing mail campaigns:-) informed me that:

* The decision is, of course, Kyle's personal decision.  [no arguing with that]

* The movie is officially NOT cancelled, but "on hold".

* Lynch-Frost very much wants to make the film, and are doing everything they
  can to make it happen, so please spare them a write-in mail campaign.

* Mail would not reach Kyle in time to affect his decision, and they [she?]
  felt it would be better NOT to try telegrams or any such thing at this
  point in time.

* What they all need right now is "a little space".

The woman who answered the phone and spoke to me did not seem particularly
happy to be conversing with the general public (though I did explain very
briefly that I would pass on the information to the Usenet folks who helped
out so much with the ABC letter writing campaign).  I hope the rest of the
L-F team are not that demoralized, or harried, or whatever.

It occurs to me that if mail won't help in time, then final decisions on the
movie may be coming real soon.

So, it looks like we've naught to do but wait for the other shoe to drop.
Sigh.  I do wish there was something we could do to affect the outcome of
all this.
-- -larryy@apple.com "You wouldn't recognize a *subtle plan* if it painted itself purple, and danced naked upon a harpsichord, singing, 'Subtle Plans are Here Again'." - Edmund Blackadder

larryy@Apple.COM (Larry Yaeger) writes:

> > In article <r0orfgt@Unify.Com> raveling@Unify.com (Paul Raveling) writes:
>> > >
>> > >The amusing thing was that when they shot his part he
>> > >did some lines while standing alone in front of the fireplace.
>> > >When the show aired he was amid a bunch of people!
>> > >
> > 
> > Hmm, I kinda doubt his story, Paul.  Any kind of superposition is a tricky
> > business.  Blue-screen setups require serious pro's, extra time and money,

Well, they could have shot him fairly close-up by the fireplace, then shot
a room full of people, and edited him in. Even though he wouldn't have
had any other people in that shot, it would still have seemed as if he was
in a packed room, especially if they did some fairly simple tricks with the
sound.

It is happening again.      It is happening again.      It is happening again.
Joe Zitt ...cs.utexas.edu!kvue!zitt!joe (512)450-1916

I just spotted a video at the local ...uh... video place, of a movie whose
name I've already forgotten, except that it began with a "Z". It starred
Nicholas Cage and ...err... some other major male star I've forgotten, and,
the packaging trumpeted proudly, Erika Anderson from Twin Peaks! I looked at
the pictures... looked at the name... looked at the pictures... looked at
the name, and drew a total blank.

Fortunately, I had my trusty online cast listings, and found out that the
hopefully unforgettable Erika Anderson had the pivotal role of...

(if any of you want to try to remember, here's your chance...













Selina Swift ("Jade"/"Emerald") on the soap everyone watched.

Well, that's packaging for you....!

It is happening again.      It is happening again.      It is happening again.
Joe Zitt ...cs.utexas.edu!kvue!zitt!joe (512)450-1916

<jamsheed@athertn.atherton.com writes:>
When LMFAP announces the arrival of yet another friend of Coop's, Maddy,
he appears to be somewhat shaken, if not downright frightened.

Why does LMFAP hide behind the chair when Maddy comes in?
Where does this scene take place? The Waiting Room, Black Lodge, or ...
What's Maddy doing there? Re: she warns Coop about her cousin, Laura.
Could it be that what we see is not Maddy? Perhaps a figment of Coop's
imagination? Or even Bob or WE disguised as Maddy?
<end quote>

When I saw this scene I thought that BOB was going to show up and pull some
dastardly deed.  Maybe he did in the form of Maddie...

John Schultz (caffeine abuser)  !  ABC killed Laura Palmer
c491153@umcvmb.bitnet           !  Macintosh-free and proud of it!
c491153@umcvmb.missouri.edu     !  Subscriber to the hacker ethic

In article <4140@kluge.fiu.edu>, ii7gjg0b@serss0.fiu.edu (Jim Stafford) writes...

}} So are we saying that people actually like _Golden Years_?

Pretty much. I find it an acceptable show, though I wouldn't go out of my
way to recommend it to anyone.

}} It made me want to vomit because the acting was so bad.

I found the acting to be no worse than most current television. The biggest
problem I found was that Frances Sternhagen was just so damn good that she
makes the rest of the cast look like chopped liver.

} Actually, it was pretty good for a screenplay of a SK novel. Which unfor-
} tunately isn't saying much.

And which, unfortunately, isn't the case. GOLDEN YEARS is a completely
original story. It's *not* based on any of King's novels, though it
does have some ties ("The Shop") to FIRESTARTER.

-- "Right now it's only a notion, but I think I can get money and make it into a concept, and then later turn it into an idea." --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA) boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM or ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian

I am certainly one who appreciates the genius of _Twin
Peaks_, but I have seen here many a fawning person, who does not
appear to be fully aware of the show's shortcomings.

Allow me to begin by stating that the entire first season
was absolutely compelling and original.  I was instantly in love
with the music, the acting, the plot, and everything else about
it.  I was glued to the monitor without a doubt.

However, soon into the second season, Lynch and Frost
just disappeared into the shadows, and many an incompetent
writer and director played a part in ruining _Twin Peaks_.  I
have yet to figure out why David Lynch and Mark Frost allowed
this to happen, aside from lazy disdain regarding a then
successful show.  At this terrible turning point in the brief
life of _Twin Peaks_, the standard episode content became
outrageously bogged down with inane sub-plots, like Audrey
Horne's romance and Ben Horne's Civil War -- things any idiot
can create . . . things that only serve as an annoyance and
an insult to intelligent viewers.  In fact, at this sad
point in the career or _Twin Peaks_, the fascinating mystical
aspects of the show were reduced to a mere few minutes per
episode.

Even the two-part finale was bogged down with idiotic
and time-consuming acts, such as Mayor Milford's girlfriend
[who is not so appealing as the writers would have you
believe] and that insipid Miss _Twin Peaks_ contest.  Thank-
fully, the show went out with a bang in the last thirty
minutes, but that, in no way, makes up for the grave mistakes
made.

Please, I am interested in the feelings of others on
this net.  Let me know how you feel both publicly and 
privately [E-Mail].

--
Alexander Aingworth/as215 -- Cleveland FreeNet

'It's a far, far better thing I do, than I have ever done before
A far better resting place I go to, than I have ever known'

From New York Newsday, Fri. 7/19/91:

"'Peaks' Performers Turn to Screamers"

What happens to the folks who had big roles on the deceased
"Twin Peaks" shouldn't happen to, well, Dracula. A batch of
peakers have ended up being cast in -- horror flicks, what else?
According to the brand-new issue of Inside Media mag, MADCHEN
AMICK, who played Shelley, is appearing in *two* soon-to-be-
released screamers, "The Borrower" (an alien steals people's
*heads* -- would we make that up?) and "Stephen King's
Sleepwalkers" which costars RON PERLMAN. Ron never made it to
"Peaks" (we don't think) unless he was disguised as the Log
Lady's chunk of wood. LARA FLYNN BOYLE, who played Donna, will
star opposite DENNIS HOPPER in "Innocent Blood," which Warner's
describes as a vampire-gangster flick. What, blood-sucking
mobsters? EVERETT McGILL and WENDY ROBIE (Ed and his whacked-out
wife) will make like married cannibals in "The People Under the
Stairs" for Universal. And CAREL STRUYCKEN, who played the giant
on "Peaks," will portray the butler, Lurch, in Paramount's "The
Adams Family."

/Ned
walsh@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu

I just went to see a movie tonight, and I saw a preview for some movie
coming out this summer called SHOUT, which has, as a co-star the actress
who played Annie on TP...

I was impressed with the preview.... she showed more emotion in 2 minutes
than she did in the final 2 hours of Peaks....

I guess I'll have to see it, even though it looks like another sappy
love story.....

Jason Bilsky    fuzzbox@world.std.com

I may have missed any announcements concerning the
Twin Peaks 2-hour pilot movie coming out on Laserdisc.  It's
supposed to be here this month or in August.

Does anyone know if the entire series will be released on Laserdisc?
A few "cult" series have been--The Prisoner, Star Trek, Space 1999,
etc. 


-- Richard Guion ---------------------------- "This product has | rguion@ralph.mips.COM | the official NINTENDO seal of ---------------------------- disapproval."

I have the tape, got it from Coles BookStore a while back, it's just a cheap
audio tape and i doubt they have it in cd format or anything like that...


-- Via DLG Pro v0.975b

Devin Davidson

One voice chants out between two worlds
FIRE, walk with me

gerry@dialogic.com (Gerry Lachac) writes:

> >So are we saying that people actually like _Golden Years_?  It made me
> >want to vomit because the acting was so bad.  Maybe it wasn't the
> >acting itself, but the lines the actors were given.  Take the two
> >assistants in the beginning as a good example, or the mad doctor.

I'd have to agree with this.  Our whole family went into Golden Years
with high hopes.... we're all Stephen King fans, and were ready to 
watch every night.  After the first hour and a half, I had to bail
out;  my list of things I would rather be doing than watching this
lame attempt at drama got too long.  Both the acting and the writing
needed a lot of work, and the budget on this thing did seem somewhere
between Dr. Who and the original Star Trek.  The rest of my family
gave up after the first night.  
We all feel it could have been done MUCH better than it was.  :-I

> >-gerry

                                                            Kurt
--
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
|| Kurt Tappe          (215) 363-9485 || With.   Without.   And who'll ||
|| 184 W. Valley Hill Rd.     (home)  || deny it's what the fighting's ||
|| Malvern, PA 19355-2214    458-5000 || all about?    -  Pink Floyd   ||
||                            (work)   --------------------------------||
|| tappek@infonode.ingr.com OR jkt100@psuvm.psu.edu   QLink: KurtTappe ||
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------

as215@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alexander Aingworth) writes:

> > However, soon into the second season, Lynch and Frost
> > just disappeared into the shadows, and many an incompetent
> > writer and director played a part in ruining _Twin Peaks_.  I
> > have yet to figure out why David Lynch and Mark Frost allowed
> > this to happen, aside from lazy disdain regarding a then
> > successful show.  At this terrible turning point in the brief
> > life of _Twin Peaks_, the standard episode content became
> > outrageously bogged down with inane sub-plots, like Audrey
> > Horne's romance and Ben Horne's Civil War -- things any idiot
> > can create . . . things that only serve as an annoyance and
> > an insult to intelligent viewers.  In fact, at this sad
> > point in the career or _Twin Peaks_, the fascinating mystical
> > aspects of the show were reduced to a mere few minutes per
> > episode.

Welp, I would say that the turning point happened at the death of Leland.
Some of my favorite stuff happened early in the second season -- my
favorite character on the show was Harold Smith, and the slow build-up
to Maddy's death and all that worked quite well.

That being said, I do think that nobody did any planning ahead for how
to continue. The whole schmeer with Windom Earl, the Lodges, and all
that amounts to handwaving. Even the Red Room sequence, while captivating,
seemed to be an accumulation of images, where I doubt even the creators
could explain what it meant (not that I necessarily see that as a bad
thing). I think that we on a.t.tp have expended a >lot< of mindsweat
to retrojustify substandard stuff.

I think that TP may well have had at least one clear effect on "Golden
Years" -- King has said that this is conceived and created as a seven
part series, with an option for continuation, rather than a completely
open-ended show.

To the best of my recollection (I just got my second season tapes back
after having loaned them out for several months), if the show had ended
with 2009, it would have felt complete. True, BOB was still at large,
and his whole whateverness was unexplained, but that felt appropriate,
as I don't think any explanation could have lived up to the feel of the
unknown.

And, >that< being said, I hope the movie happens, as I think the prequel
could be quite good. I think Lynch/Frost really have their hearts in
that part of the story, and lost interest as it trailed off. I remember
hearing that they were planning something like a 400-page book on the
history of Twin Peaks, so they have a lot of background to draw on.

For that matter, the end of the series, as it now stands, did have a
kind of tragic conclusiveness. Upon rereading Cooper's "autobiography",
it does seem that he and BOB et al were on a collision course from
early on, and Cooper is equally "gifted" and "damned". That Cooper
loses in his quest seems appropriate, and it would take something
really amazing for him to get out.

...blather, blather, blather... blah, blah, blah...

It is happening again.      It is happening again.      It is happening again.
Joe Zitt ...cs.utexas.edu!kvue!zitt!joe (512)450-1916

Could someone please mail me the complete TPtimeline?

Thanks
Vidar

David L. Lander, noted Squigaphone player, has played about three
parts on TP - the insurance claim guy, the pine weasel expert and
something else.  He also did some voices for "Who Framed Roger
Rabbit?" (one of the weasels, most prominently).

Strangely enough, I believe that the characters of Lenny and Squiggy
pre-dated L&S and they were responsible for one of my favorite TV
tie-in novelties, the Lenny and the Squigtones album.

- Dan

--
 _______________________________________________________________________
|Dan Parmenter    |"And it would have worked too, if it hadn't been|
|dan@gnu.ai.mit.edu | for those meddling kids!"|
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------

Wasn't that the guy who played Sqiggy in "Laverne & Shirley"?

Phil

Count me in as well, We got it back for the rest of the season, maybe we can
save the movie as well

-Gian Di Loreto

dan@churchy.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Dan Parmenter) writes:

> >David L. Lander, noted Squigaphone player, has played about three
> >parts on TP - the insurance claim guy, the pine weasel expert and
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
He wasn't the insurance agent, but the salesman for Leo's "swingset" :-).
And BTW, the pine weasel expert was the same *character* as the salesman.

The insurance agent that the original poster was referring to was an older
person.  Remember the scene where he heaped praise upon praise to a very
self-conscious Shelly & Bobby for wanting to take care of poor Leo?


===============================================================================
    :: :: :: :: ::     Synth         synth@yenta.alb.nm.us "Howls of derisive
 :: :: :: :: :: :: ::  (F. Oberheim) synth@euler.unm.edu     laughter, Bruce!"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 Fire your boss! Get out of the rat race forever. Call 24hr msg (505) 764-0621
===============================================================================
DISCLAIMER: "It's not my goddamn planet!  Understand, monkeyboy??"

Does anyone know what's going on with the Gazette?  Are they still making
new issues, or is our money down the drain (or can we get a refund?)

Also, did anybody ever get their free coffee mugs?  I didn't.


 This is from
     kbays@bluemoon.uucp
     kbays@bluemoon.rn.com
who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet

In article <91202.162928FELDMAN@BGUVM.BITNET>, <FELDMAN@BGUVM.BITNET> says:
> >P.S. Who killed Lora ?

Baab did...  :-)

Me

In article <1991Jul18.135954.5845@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> ceblair@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Charles Blair) writes:
> >
> >   Cooper regains consciousness.  He is lying on the floor with Wyndham
> >Earle, BoB, and the bloodthirsty version of Laura looking down at him.
> >
> >``It was all a dream,'' he says. ``And you were there, and you, and you...''

*grin*  But they did that after the first hiatus with their promos...

Personally, I've got my own ideas.  Just saw "Jacob's Ladder", and suddenly
it all makes sense.  The entire second season has been Cooper's hallucination
as he lies dying on the floor of his room after being shot in the first-
season cliffhanger...

Hello,

Here in Israel we are watching the 3rd chapter of T.P. Which chpater there

is in Europe and U.S.A ???

Bye, Feldman.


P.S. Who killed Lora ?

I know what you're saying about the wandering plotlines, but it seemed to
me that they started a lot earlier than the ones you mentioned.  For me
the show started going off the rails around episode four of the second
season, when Jean Renault and the Mysterious Asian Man became major plot
lines.

Which brings to mind...  I was thinking about editing down (for use to be
determined later, as the copyright gods permit) my off-air copies of some
of the second-season episodes.  Is anyone interested in pondering the
question of what stories Twin Peaks would have focused on if it had stayed
focused, and which plotlines I should consign to oblivion?  My early list
of edit-outs include:

Norma's mom the food critic
The Milford Brothers / Lana the human pheromone
Ernie Nyles
The escapee from "Problem Child"
Denise Bryson
the Pine Weasel Riot
as much of the Ben Horne Civil War plot as possible
Bobby and Audrey's non-fling
and every last reference to Jean Renault

Anyone else got candidates for plotlines that we can easily forget?

With the series canceled and no likely prospects for resuscitation by
any other network or cable channel, and now no likely prospects for
/\Twin Peaks/\ to continue in another medium, I feel compelled to pose
the following question:

Is there any good reason why alt.tv.twin-peaks should continue to exist?

Yes, I know the question's been asked since ABC announced that TP was
to be canceled, but there was still a movie being planned at the time.
The circumstances are different now.  The question begs to be answered
anew with these circumstances in mind.  In addressing this question we
should consider what reasons led us (I use the pronoun loosely) to create
this special-purpose newsgroup, separate from rec.arts.tv.  Do these
reasons remain in force?

I myself am ambivalent on this question.  I admit to no small reluctance
when it comes to deleting a forum I have enjoyed so much (and would have
contributed more to had there not been so much traffic and so very many
intelligent, articulate, and prolific posters here before me).  But
I would like to see alt.tv.twin-peaks die with dignity, when its time
has come, rather than be removed by uncountable system administrators
years from now when no one has posted here for many consecutive months.
I like to think this is something Dale Cooper would do and BOB would not.

Since the position in favor of removing the alt.tv.twin-peaks newsgroup
is bound to be an unpopular one among readers of this message, I will
be the "BOB's advocate" in this debate.  I'll start off with what I have
suggested as my reasons for posting this query.  That is, /\Twin Peaks/\
has no future, the last page has been written, there's nothing more to
be said about it.  Do I hear any counter-arguments?  Please post them,
there's little else to discuss here now.

On a mostly unrelated note, I wondered just how many articles have
appeared in alt.tv.twin-peaks since its creation about a week after
the pilot was first broadcast, somewhere around April 13, 1990.  Which
site sent out the original newgroup control message?  What's the article
count on that site?  (If you know for certain that your site has been
receiving a.t.t-p ab initio, you should have an essentially identical
article count.  I ask the question this way in hopes of preventing a
flood of responses.)
--
Roger Noe                            roger-noe@uiuc.edu
Department of Computer Science       noe@cs.uiuc.edu
University of Illinois               40:06:39 N.  88:13:41 W.
Urbana, IL  61801  USA               "She's dead; wrapped in plastic."

In article <9100@umd5.umd.edu>, jblum@umd5.umd.edu (Jon Blum) writes:
|> focused, and which plotlines I should consign to oblivion?  My early list
|> of edit-outs include:
|> 
|> Norma's mom the food critic
|> The Milford Brothers / Lana the human pheromone
|> Ernie Nyles
|> The escapee from "Problem Child"
|> Denise Bryson
|> the Pine Weasel Riot
|> as much of the Ben Horne Civil War plot as possible
|> Bobby and Audrey's non-fling
|> and every last reference to Jean Renault
|> 
|> Anyone else got candidates for plotlines that we can easily forget?

Sure!  How about :

1.  Nadine in the second season.  How many times did we have to have her
strength proved to us, OVER and OVER again.  From flipping Mike, to
hurling cheerleaders through the air, to stopping a speeding bullet,
leaping tall buildings in a single bound... (you get the point)  

2.  Little Nickie.  Did you refer to this in escapee from "Problem
Child?"  I didn't understand that reference.   

3.  James' brush with murderous wife and lover and Donna's excessive
bawling scenes dealing with this story. 

4.  Gordon Cole's non-fling with Shelly.  The story went nowhere, and
I hardly see what it proved, and once Gordon left, I didn't see how
it related to TP other than the fact that Lynch liked this one female
co-star. 

5.  Leo's immediate state after shooting Hank.  However amusing it was
to hear him mutter "new shoes" and sit through him spitting out food,
I felt that the writers were stretching his existence, and his re-awakening.
I mean, how many people survive shots like the one he took (obviously
bleeding profusely), become brain-damaged, and then magically wake up
one day ready to retake your axe and get back to chopping up your spouse?
Sure, his child-like fear with WE was amusing, but this one person should
have been killed 3 attempts ago.  And since when does WE kill his victims
like they were Batman and Robin (ie - always leaving the possibility
for escape)?  Right, it COULD happen!

Sure, these are nitpicks to some, however, I felt it was stories like these
that took away from the other plots we were tuned in to see.

-- Kevin H. Klinge Bellcore kevink@fugitive.soac.bellcore.com

In article <1991Jul22.024318.14196@yenta.alb.nm.us>,
synth@yenta.alb.nm.us (Synth F. Oberheim) writes:
> > dan@churchy.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Dan Parmenter) writes:
> > 
>> > >David L. Lander, noted Squigaphone player, has played about three
>> > >parts on TP - the insurance claim guy, the pine weasel expert and
> >        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > He wasn't the insurance agent, but the salesman for Leo's "swingset" :-).
> > And BTW, the pine weasel expert was the same *character* as the salesman.
> > 
> > The insurance agent that the original poster was referring to was an older
> > person.  Remember the scene where he heaped praise upon praise to a very
> > self-conscious Shelly & Bobby for wanting to take care of poor Leo?

The only part I remember with Mark Lowenthal, the actor the original 
poster is referring to, was in a scene from episode 1006.  Mr. Neff 
brings some life insurance papers to Catherine because he suspects 
(correctly) that something is not on the up-and-up.  They finish with 
the following discussion:

"Are you an ambitious man, Mr. Neff?"
"One likes to think so."
"One never knows.  There may still be a few T's left to cross."
  -- Catherine Martell and Mr. Neff (1006)          

David L. Lander plays the part of Tim Pinkle.  Mr. Pinkle is seen as the 
salesman for the Leo-lifter, as the Pine Weasel expert, and as the 
Miss Twin Peaks choreographer.  Mr. Pinkle is either multi-talented or
a professional fraud.  

Ian Abercrombie plays the part of Leo's Medical Insurance Agent.  He 
gives Bobby and Shelly the check for $700 (not $5000) and makes the 
following quote:

"You might want to child-proof those electrical sockets."
  -- Leo's Insurance Agent (2006)

References:  TP-Castlist, TP-Credits, TP-Quotes, and TP-Timeline


Has anyone else had "Brushes with ^ tp ^ fame" recently?

--
Frederick J. Igo                                            igo@hri.com
Horizon Research, Inc.                                   (617) 466-8300

"Nothing beats the taste sensation when maple syrup collides with ham."
  -- Dale Cooper, FBI Special Agent

In article <9100@umd5.umd.edu> jblum@umd5.umd.edu (Jon Blum) writes:
> >
> > I was thinking about editing down (for use to be
> >determined later, as the copyright gods permit) my off-air copies of some
> >of the second-season episodes.  Is anyone interested in pondering the
> >question of what stories Twin Peaks would have focused on if it had stayed
> >focused, and which plotlines I should consign to oblivion?  My early list
> >of edit-outs include:
> >
> >Norma's mom the food critic
> >The Milford Brothers / Lana the human pheromone
> >Ernie Nyles
> >The escapee from "Problem Child"
> >Denise Bryson

Oh, please don't get rid of Denise. S/he's one of my favorites. :-(

> >the Pine Weasel Riot
> >as much of the Ben Horne Civil War plot as possible
> >Bobby and Audrey's non-fling
> >and every last reference to Jean Renault

You have to leave in at least some of the JR/OEJ business, if your
viewers are to understand why Coop gets suspended from the FBI and
stays in TP.

> >Anyone else got candidates for plotlines that we can easily forget?

I'd get rid of the whole Dick vs. Andy paternity thing.  And just
about anything involving Dick.  Leave in that early scene with Dick
and Lucy in the diner, but junk anything after that.
-- Janet Swisher Internet: swsh@midway.uchicago.eduUniversity of Chicago Phone: (312) 702-7608 Academic and Public Computing P-mail: 1155 E. 60th St. Chicago IL 60637, USA

jblum@umd5.umd.edu (Jon Blum) writes:


> >question of what stories Twin Peaks would have focused on if it had stayed
> >focused, and which plotlines I should consign to oblivion?  My early list
> >of edit-outs include:

> >Norma's mom the food critic
> >The Milford Brothers / Lana the human pheromone
> >Ernie Nyles
> >The escapee from "Problem Child"
> >Denise Bryson
> >the Pine Weasel Riot
> >as much of the Ben Horne Civil War plot as possible
> >Bobby and Audrey's non-fling
> >and every last reference to Jean Renault

> >Anyone else got candidates for plotlines that we can easily forget?


I don't think Denise should be edited out.  I liked him very much.
It's a shame more wasn't done with his character, but I think what was
there stands on its own without detracting from TP.

Otherwise, I agree with your choices but have one major addition.
Edit out ALL of James after Leland's death, especially his little
adventure with what's-her-name and her lover.

-- ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// / Louise Marks Internet: marks@skat.usc.edu / / University of Southern California BITNET: marks@uscvm / /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

In article <1991Jul20.135853.1952@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> walsh@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Edward E Walsh) writes:
>From New York Newsday, Fri. 7/19/91:
> >
> >     "'Peaks' Performers Turn to Screamers"
> >
> >     [most of article deleted]
> >     And CAREL STRUYCKEN, who played the giant
> >     on "Peaks," will portray the butler, Lurch, in Paramount's "The
> >     Adams Family."

Someone mentioned that Carel Struycken had played the original Lurch, but
I think that was Richard Keel (of more recent James Bond _Moonraker_ and
_The Spy Who Loved Me_ fame as "Jaws").  I *do* know that Carel Struycken
played Roger Corby's large android sentinel in the old Star Trek show
called "What Are Little Girls Made Of?"  Can anyone verify that it was
Richard Keel, *not* Carel Struycken that played the original Lurch?


Margaret E. H. Hudacko
margaret@ecebucolix.ncsu.edu
"Sometimes it happens, people just explode." -Repo Man

kevink@fugitive.soac.bellcore.com (Kevin Klinge) writes:

> >4.  Gordon Cole's non-fling with Shelly.  The story went nowhere, and
> >I hardly see what it proved, and once Gordon left, I didn't see how
> >it related to TP other than the fact that Lynch liked this one female
> >co-star. 

   Somebody pointed out to me that Gordon saying to Bobby, ``Take another
look, it's happening again.''  was an echo of the Giant saying to
Cooper ``It is happening again.''

It seems to me that as long as there is traffic, then the newsgroup
should remain. This group still generates more traffic than others that
have been around for a long time.

If you've had enough, stop reading. Otherwise, if there is zero traffic for
X weeks, then maybe it should be killed.

Especially since the movie is not necessarily completely dead, maybe we 
should wait a while.

What's the rush?
I don't know that the "death with dignity" idea should apply to a newsgroup.
(What would an undignified death be?)

My 2 cents.

I was away during the month of June and came back to find that I did
not get the final episode of TP on tape.  Could someone out in the
Boston-area net.land please help?  I would greatly appreciate any
assistance.

Reply via e-mail and THANK YOU (!) in advance.

-- Carrie

I for one think that this newsgroup indeed still does hold a purpose, because
even though the series is over, and a movie is highly improbably, there are
still people who seem to be interested in continuing tp-related discussion &
products.  I think it is too early to end the newsgroup.

Dave

In article <1991Jul22.164918.12112@cbnewsm.att.com>, srm1@cbnewsm.att.com (steven.r.marcovici) writes[asks]:
|> (What would an undignified death be?)

Being forced into a conglomerate newsgroup with the following :
alt.tv.top-cops
alt.tv.babes
alt.tv.yearbook

Until this or something similar happens, I think we should leave 
well-enough alone.
-- Kevin H. Klinge Bellcore kevink@fugitive.soac.bellcore.com

In article <9107200823.AA05584@cwns1.INS.CWRU.Edu>, as215@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alexander Aingworth) writes:
> > At this terrible turning point in the brief
> > life of _Twin Peaks_, the standard episode content became
> > outrageously bogged down with inane sub-plots, like Audrey
> > Horne's romance and Ben Horne's Civil War -- things any idiot
> > can create . . . things that only serve as an annoyance and
> > an insult to intelligent viewers.  In fact, at this sad
> > point in the career or _Twin Peaks_, the fascinating mystical
> > aspects of the show were reduced to a mere few minutes per
> > episode.

I don't think you'll get much disagreement.  On the other hand, 49 minutes of
drivel and three minutes of mind-expansion beats 52 minutes of drivel any day...
-- cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet...

In article <1991Jul22.154353.9027@ncsu.edu>, margaret@ecebucolix.ncsu.edu (Margaret Hudacko) writes:

|> Someone mentioned that Carel Struycken had played the original Lurch, but
|> I think that was Richard Keel (of more recent James Bond _Moonraker_ and
|> _The Spy Who Loved Me_ fame as "Jaws").  I *do* know that Carel Struycken
|> played Roger Corby's large android sentinel in the old Star Trek show
|> called "What Are Little Girls Made Of?"  Can anyone verify that it was
|> Richard Keel, *not* Carel Struycken that played the original Lurch?
|> 
|> 
|> Margaret E. H. Hudacko
|> margaret@ecebucolix.ncsu.edu
|> "Sometimes it happens, people just explode." -Repo Man

     Ho hum.  Someone call the factchecker...

(steps approach)

     Hi ho, F.C. here.  Ted Cassidy played the original Lurch, and also Rok
in the Star Trek episode in question.  Carel Struckyen was probably burning
ants with a magnifying glass in the 60's.  Richard Kiel has no place in this
discussion at all.

     You must now pay the penalty for boneheadedness.

(wet noodle lashing abounds)

(steps away, bored)
-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian D. Moore | Homebrewing -- the only sport exclusively for Space Physics and Astronomy | anal-retentive alcoholics. Rice University, Houston TX | Relax -- have a home brew. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In article <1991Jul22.154353.9027@ncsu.edu> margaret@ecebucolix.ncsu.edu (Margaret Hudacko) writes:
> >In article <1991Jul20.135853.1952@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> walsh@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Edward E Walsh) writes:
> >>From New York Newsday, Fri. 7/19/91:
>> >>
>> >>     "'Peaks' Performers Turn to Screamers"
>> >>
>> >>     [most of article deleted]
>> >>     And CAREL STRUYCKEN, who played the giant
>> >>     on "Peaks," will portray the butler, Lurch, in Paramount's "The
>> >>     Adams Family."
> >
> >Someone mentioned that Carel Struycken had played the original Lurch, but
> >I think that was Richard Keel (of more recent James Bond _Moonraker_ and
> >_The Spy Who Loved Me_ fame as "Jaws").  I *do* know that Carel Struycken
> >played Roger Corby's large android sentinel in the old Star Trek show
> >called "What Are Little Girls Made Of?"  Can anyone verify that it was
> >Richard Keel, *not* Carel Struycken that played the original Lurch?
> >
> >
> >Margaret E. H. Hudacko
> >margaret@ecebucolix.ncsu.edu
> >"Sometimes it happens, people just explode." -Repo Man

BZZZZZZT!........BOTH wrong!  Ted Cassidy played Lurch in the old Addams
Family TV show.  Carel has also made appearances in ST:TNG as Troi's mother's
manservant.  Richard Keel is a little young to have played Lurch.

Wile E. Coyote
-- /| |\ Wile E. Coyote, Dean of the School of Hard Knocks /| |\ Acme Looniversity ,__OO|L_ *** If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called O____~__} *** RESEARCH! fnord

In article <1991Jul22.154353.9027@ncsu.edu> margaret@ecebucolix.ncsu.edu (Margaret Hudacko) writes:
> >called "What Are Little Girls Made Of?"  Can anyone verify that it was
> >Richard Keel, *not* Carel Struycken that played the original Lurch?
> >

Neither Carel Struycken nor Richard Keel, the late Ted Cassidy played
Lurch.

Steve
and very well, indeed

In article <1991Jul22.193421.4831@hubcap.clemson.edu> jtthorp@hubcap.clemson.edu (Wile E. Coyote) writes:
> >BZZZZZZT!........BOTH wrong!  Ted Cassidy played Lurch in the old Addams
> >Family TV show.  Carel has also made appearances in ST:TNG as Troi's mother's
> >manservant.  Richard Keel is a little young to have played Lurch.
> >

  Let us not forget his appearance in one of my fave' Twilight Zone episodes:
"To Serve Man."  That one was a hoot!  Has anyone else seen this one?

  - Larry


--
/  Larry J. Brackney      | E-Mail: brackney@mn.ecn.purdue.edu              \ 
|-------------------------| S-Mail: 3116 Hilltop Dr.  W. Lafayette IN  47906 |
|  Mechanical Engineering | Phone : (317)-463-1602 (Home)                    |
\  Purdue University      |         (317)-494-6552 (Office)                 /

Agreed!  Leo's plotline was a pretty big misfire all the way through.
Leaving him as a vegetable would probably have been more interesting...
but let's face it.  They HAD to bring him back from the brain-dead
somehow.

As for Shelly and Gordon -- I happened to like it, because it was so
off-the-wall.  Gordon/Shelly and Coop/Annie (at least at first) were much
more "Peakish" romances than Donna/James by that point.  At least they
were unusual...

Hmm...  Actually, if you cut out enough of the little plotlines, you
wouldn't even NEED to have Coop get suspended.  Just as he's about to
leave Twin Peaks, he finds out that Windom Earle's in town, and he's
got a new mission.

As for cutting James' fling with the Mysterious Blonde...  am I the only
one who liked that plotline?  It actually made James' running-off after
Maddy died (which I still think was really prompted by James Marshall's
contract being up for renewal) make a bit more sense.  Though by the
end I was kind of hoping that once Donna found out she'd drop him like
a hot potato, so he'd leave the show for good...

In article <s19c61w163w@zitt>, joe@zitt (Joe Zitt) writes:
> > larryy@Apple.COM (Larry Yaeger) writes:
> > 
>> > > In article <r0orfgt@Unify.Com> raveling@Unify.com (Paul Raveling) writes:
>>> > > >
>>> > > >The amusing thing was that when they shot his part he
>>> > > >did some lines while standing alone in front of the fireplace.
>>> > > >When the show aired he was amid a bunch of people!
>> > > 
>> > > Hmm, I kinda doubt his story, Paul.  Any kind of superposition is a tricky
>> > > business.  Blue-screen setups require serious pro's, extra time and money,
> > 
> > Well, they could have ...

They definitely do some other types of superposition that aren't
blue screen setups.  They DO emply serious pro's, time, and money.

A simpler case that they do quite well is supplying outdoor
background images as seen through windows and doors on various
parts of the set, especially the RR Diner and the TP Sheriff's
Dept. office.  On the show these look like legitimate outdoor
scenes, often with cars and people passing.  They look that
good even when an actor walks through a door.

On the actual set there's nothing outside those doors and
windows except the same type of thin white fabric that they use
overhead for diffusing the lighting.  Generally each set uses
it where the ceiling would be, outside all windows, and outside
any exterior doors.

This is another element of artistry, IMHO -- they do quite well
at making it look as if it's a bright sunny day outside, with
sunlight streaming in the windows.  In truth the only lights
are those around the particular set they're shooting on, and
most of the studio is dark while they're shooting.


------------------
Paul Raveling
Raveling@Unify.com

 I just joined this forum, and I'm pleased to see that the show garnered 
enough enthusiasts to have them joined together like this in a forum.
 
 Somebody above posed the question of whether or not this newsfeed should 
continue to exist, and even though I've just arrived here, it would seem 
like a difficult question to answer.
 As a film student attending the University of British Columbia, I enjoyed 
the atmosphere created by Lynch and Frost, and I consider Lynch to be one of 
the few geniuses the U.S. has ever produced. His film work is always 
excellent, and I would like to see this forum focus more on Lynch's 
continuing work rather than re-hashing a show that we all saw and quoting 
our favorite scenes from it. The show is over, and we have our VHS memories 
above our TV shelf to behold, not meandering about like a bunch of trekkie's 
telling each other to have some "Damn fine coffee" or something.
 
 This is not to say that if you like Twin Peaks, you'll like everything that 
Lynch or Frost might undertake. Certainly not. But as a film student I would 
like to relate to Lynch's work with film, his paintings, or even his 
cartoon "The world's Angriest Dog" with others who have the same interest.
 
 Anyway, I can see perhaps some sort of name change to the forum might be 
appropriate like Alt.rec.Lynch or something like that. So that those who 
would like to continue speaking to other users about Twin Peaks can do so, 
and those who would like to talk about Eraserhead could do the same.
 
 Anyway, there is plenty to take into consideration I guess in dropping a 
newsfeed, so its up to those who have been here longer that I.
 
 Regarding the "red room" incident in Twin Peaks which a lot of people 
couldn't figure out, take a look at the black and white zigzag floor. The 
same floor can be found in the apartment bulding in Eraserhead.
 The actual CD of the soundtrack to Wild at Heart has a hole designed on the 
front, in the same shape as a puddle that the character of Henry steps into 
in Eraserhead.
 
 Lynch's approach to symbolism is extremely interesting. To quote himself, 
"I don't know why people expect art to make sense, when they all agree that 
life doesn't make sense."
 Which is not to say I guess that Lynch throws something up on the screen 
for no given purpose at all, but it can occur.

I agree that most of James from the second season should go, especially the
tedious Rich Mysterious Blonde plot.  

However, I love the Gordon and Shelley plot.  Not only does it give one more
variation on the loopiness of love pervading that diner, it give us more
time with Gordon onscreen.

--Laurel

In article <5985@spim.mips.COM> rguion@robin.mips.com (Richard Guion) writes:
> >I may have missed any announcements concerning the
> >Twin Peaks 2-hour pilot movie coming out on Laserdisc.  It's
> >supposed to be here this month or in August.

Does anyone have a price for the Twin Peaks 2-hour pilot
on LaserDisc?  Will it also have the additional material
that will be on the tape?


--
"One time I removed all the hair from a mouse with Nair hair remover,
 just to see what it looked like.  And it looked beautiful."
                                                 --- David Lynch 
Special Agent Dale Cooper         |         shiau@eniac.seas.upenn.edu

In article <1991Jul22.200142.20212@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> brackney@author.ecn.purdue.edu (Larry J Brackney) writes:
   In article <1991Jul22.193421.4831@hubcap.clemson.edu> jtthorp@hubcap.clemson.edu (Wile E. Coyote) writes:
   >BZZZZZZT!........BOTH wrong!  Ted Cassidy played Lurch in the old Addams
   >Family TV show.  Carel has also made appearances in ST:TNG as Troi's mother's
   >manservant.  Richard Keel is a little young to have played Lurch.
   >

     Let us not forget his appearance in one of my fave' Twilight Zone episodes:
   "To Serve Man."  That one was a hoot!  Has anyone else seen this one?

But of course.  BTW: Keep your eyes open during _Naked Gun 2 1/2_ if
you know the original Twilight Zone episode.

-30-
Bob

``We've translated the title; it's `To Serve Man'.''

In article <1991Jul17.161256.18941@citib.com> gregg@citib.com (Gregg Silver) writes:
<
<Just read in the July 15th Variety that Spelling Entertainment is planning 
<on releasing the first seven episodes, after the Pilot, which they don't have 
<the rights to, in the home video market.  The tapes will retail at $14.95 
<each or $99.95 for the seven tape collection.

And in September, I think, the *European* version of the pilot
is coming out on video.  I can imagine the confusion now: the murderer
is revealed in the pilot and then the investigation proceeds anyway
in episodes 1-7!

Jan Bielawski
Computervision R&D, San Diego
jpb@calmasd.prime.com

In article <1991Jul22.154353.9027@ncsu.edu> margaret@ecebucolix.ncsu.edu (Margaret Hudacko) writes:
-In article <1991Jul20.135853.1952@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> walsh@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Edward E Walsh) writes:
->From New York Newsday, Fri. 7/19/91:
->
->     "'Peaks' Performers Turn to Screamers"
->
->     [most of article deleted]
->     And CAREL STRUYCKEN, who played the giant
->     on "Peaks," will portray the butler, Lurch, in Paramount's "The
->     Adams Family."
-
-Someone mentioned that Carel Struycken had played the original Lurch, but
-I think that was Richard Keel (of more recent James Bond _Moonraker_ and
-_The Spy Who Loved Me_ fame as "Jaws").  I *do* know that Carel Struycken
-played Roger Corby's large android sentinel in the old Star Trek show
-called "What Are Little Girls Made Of?"  Can anyone verify that it was
-Richard Keel, *not* Carel Struycken that played the original Lurch?
-
-
-Margaret E. H. Hudacko
-margaret@ecebucolix.ncsu.edu
-"Sometimes it happens, people just explode." -Repo Man

!BZZZZ! Wrong! 

The original Lurch was played by Ted Cassidy. (I think that's his name- first
name definitely Ted, last name started with a hard 'C'.)  

One of the classics of '60's TV.  I used to have this plastic Uncle Fester
light bulb.  You put a piece of tin foil on your tongue, and you could make 
the bulb light up in your mouth by shorting the two terminals with the
foil.  I also had a Thing bank.  Put a coin in the slot/holder thingie and
the box would open and a little green hand came out and grabbed it.  Hey,
it beat the hell out of Ninja turtles!

Now if someone could tell me who played cousin It, my life would be complete.

jimbo

In article <288A8429.12A6@ibma0.cs.uiuc.edu> noe@sunc7.cs.uiuc.edu (Roger Noe) writes:
> >With the series canceled and no likely prospects for resuscitation by
> >any other network or cable channel, and now no likely prospects for
> >/\Twin Peaks/\ to continue in another medium, I feel compelled to pose
> >the following question:
> >
> >Is there any good reason why alt.tv.twin-peaks should continue to exist?

Bottom line is, it ain't over till it's over, and it ain't over...

Assuming you've been reading a.t.tp recently you know that the movie is
not yet officially cancelled, just "on hold".  I have enjoyed the 1000
eyes and ears that this newsgroup has brought to bear on TP news items,
and fully expect to learn of any final resolution of TP movie issues
here, before I stumble across it in some other news source.

If the news is that there is no movie, no foreign TV deal, no nothing,
then you may want to raise the issue again.  Even then, however, other
countries still have not finished their run.  And ongoing discussion
may be desired by enough people to warrant the newsgroup's existence.
I personally hate wading through hundreds of postings on topics I don't
care about to find the little nugget I do want to read; e.g.,
rec.arts.sf-lovers... I really am a strong SF adherent, in both books
and films, yet finding the occasional gem of information about Terry
Pratchett or Douglas Adams or Greg Bear or Terminator 2 or whatever
amongst the incredibly huge number of postings in that group is a
genuine pain.  I would prefer to fragment the discussion radically,
and just subscribe to the groups I really care about.  Unfortunately,
I don't control such things, and instead must wade through literally
hundreds of postings a day!  alt.tv.twin-peaks is one of the very
few groups where I read every posting.

Anywho, when the posting rate drops to zero for a week or so, then
we'll all know it's over, regardless of our intentions and desires.
Why not let it die (or live) naturally?
-- -larryy@apple.com "You wouldn't recognize a *subtle plan* if it painted itself purple, and danced naked upon a harpsichord, singing, 'Subtle Plans are Here Again'." - Edmund Blackadder

I've been reading alt.tv.twin-peaks for the past wek now and was amazed to
discover that Cooper gets possessed by this Bob person. The following coments
are gonna be fuelled with ignorance, I fear, as the local TV station is only
up to the point where Cooper got shot, but bear with me.

I kinda think it'd be out of character for Coop to get possessed and only
because he was running away. I mean, if references to other David Lynch films
abound in TP then why not Dune! Surely, Paul Atreides would've recited the
Bene Gesserit Litany against fear and then gone on to save the day!

Well, it was an idea.

Leanne Richard
University of Newcastle

In article <288A8429.12A6@ibma0.cs.uiuc.edu> noe@sunc7.cs.uiuc.edu (Roger Noe) writes:
>> >>Is there any good reason why alt.tv.twin-peaks should continue to exist?

alt.tv.prisoner exists, and The Prisoner was canceled in 1967.  The group
can stay around however long people want to read it and post to it.

In article <55224@apple.Apple.COM> larryy@Apple.COM (Larry Yaeger) writes:
> >Bottom line is, it ain't over till it's over, and it ain't over...

What he said.

> >If the news is that there is no movie, no foreign TV deal, no nothing,
> >then you may want to raise the issue again.

Why?  This is an alt group.  It was never intended that all sites carry
all alt groups.  If no one at your site wants the group, stop carrying it.
The group will disappear when people stop posting to it or reading it;
if an individual thinks there's no longer a use for it, just unsubscribe.

--
--
Joe Buck
jbuck@galileo.berkeley.edu {uunet,ucbvax}!galileo.berkeley.edu!jbuck

as215@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alexander Aingworth) writes:

> >Allow me to begin by stating that the entire first season
> >was absolutely compelling and original.  I was instantly in love
> >with the music, the acting, the plot, and everything else about
> >it.  I was glued to the monitor without a doubt.

I am absolutely in agreement with this. My reactions exactly.

> >However, soon into the second season, Lynch and Frost
> >just disappeared into the shadows, and many an incompetent
> >writer and director played a part in ruining _Twin Peaks_.  I
> >have yet to figure out why David Lynch and Mark Frost allowed
> >this to happen, aside from lazy disdain regarding a then
> >successful show.

Again, I agree. However, is it really true that Lynch and Frost
waited until the end of the first year to step aside? I seem to
remember that Lynch at least had little to do with the actual
direction of the show after the first episode or two.

My guess (and it's only a guess) is that having set up the show and
gotten all the attention of having it be acclaimed as a departure
for network TV, Lynch was basically bored at the idea of having tp
crank out a new episode every week, and preferred to leave that to
others. It does seem though that Lynch had a lot of the basic plot
line already conceptualized at the start of the show. I just wish
that the ending would have revealed more of what of his vision
actually meant.

> > At this terrible turning point in the brief
> >life of _Twin Peaks_, the standard episode content became
> >outrageously bogged down with inane sub-plots, like Audrey
> >Horne's romance and Ben Horne's Civil War -- things any idiot
> >can create . . . things that only serve as an annoyance and
> >an insult to intelligent viewers.  In fact, at this sad
> >point in the career or _Twin Peaks_, the fascinating mystical
> >aspects of the show were reduced to a mere few minutes per
> >episode.

Yes, if that. And what about the Nadine amnesia/super-strength
subplot? I have yet to figure out any connection between that
and the rest of the show.

> >Even the two-part finale was bogged down with idiotic
> >and time-consuming acts, such as Mayor Milford's girlfriend
> >[who is not so appealing as the writers would have you
> >believe] and that insipid Miss _Twin Peaks_ contest.  Thank-
> >fully, the show went out with a bang in the last thirty
> >minutes, but that, in no way, makes up for the grave mistakes
> >made.

> >Please, I am interested in the feelings of others on
> >this net.  Let me know how you feel both publicly and 
> >privately [E-Mail].

> >--
> >Alexander Aingworth/as215 -- Cleveland FreeNet

All in all, I think you've summed it up very well. I'm so disappointed
that this show that started with so much promise declined so quickly
and left so many questions finally unanswered.

-----
Eric Smith
erics@sco.com
erics@infoserv.com
CI$: 70262,3610

jblum@umd5.umd.edu (Jon Blum) writes:

> > Which brings to mind...  I was thinking about editing down (for use to be
> > determined later, as the copyright gods permit) my off-air copies of some
> > of the second-season episodes.  Is anyone interested in pondering the
> > question of what stories Twin Peaks would have focused on if it had stayed
> > focused, and which plotlines I should consign to oblivion?  My early list
> > of edit-outs include:
.....
> > Anyone else got candidates for plotlines that we can easily forget?

I would blow away >everything< after 2009 that didn't lead directly to the
Windom Earl/Miss TP/Red Room finale. Thus, we'd lose (heh) James after he
rode off into the sunset. We'd keep enough of the Josie line to tie her
into Coop's shooting and to lead to her death. We could lose much of the
remaining Eckhardt/Packard rivalry. The civil war could go. The stuff with
Lucy's baby could go -- in fact we could (please!) make Dick entirely
unhappen.

I think we could shrink down the remaining episodes into 3 hours, max.

It is happening again.      It is happening again.      It is happening again.
Joe Zitt ...cs.utexas.edu!kvue!zitt!joe (512)450-1916

In article <9099@umd5.umd.edu> jblum@umd5.umd.edu (Jon Blum) writes:

   Personally, I've got my own ideas.  Just saw "Jacob's Ladder", and suddenly
   it all makes sense.  The entire second season has been Cooper's hallucination
   as he lies dying on the floor of his room after being shot in the first-
   season cliffhanger...

Actually, I really expected that to be the case when he started
bleeding from the location of the gunshot wound in the Red Room and
then woke up in his hotel room bed with Harry and Doc bending over
him.  I was afraid for a minute that when he first asked "How's
Annie?", the other two would look at each other in bewilderment,
wondering who Annie was.  I was relieved when they answered that she
was in the hospital, not because I was afraid she was dead but because
I was afraid she didn't exist and the whole second season was his
dream.

Barb Miller

ii7gjg0b@serss0.fiu.edu (Jim Stafford) writes:

> >the bulb light up in your mouth by shorting the two terminals with the
> >foil.  I also had a Thing bank.  Put a coin in the slot/holder thingie and
> >the box would open and a little green hand came out and grabbed it.  Hey,
> >it beat the hell out of Ninja turtles!

> >Now if someone could tell me who played cousin It, my life would be complete.

> >jimbo   

Hey Jimbo I was kinda of wondering what happens to us when our
life is completed?  Do we just die, or sit around and listen
to our favorite Replacements CD?  Well I will just 
Let it Be.

Darren T. Burton in search for total realty and happines
dtburton@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu

In Chula Vista, California, the image of a murdered girl is allegedly
appearing on a blank billboard.  The girl's name is Laura and one person
says the killer's image is also appearing.

--
  *  From the disk of:|  jms@vanth.uucp |  "Let's become
  Jim Shaffer, Jr.|  amix.commodore.com!vanth!jms  |   alive again."
  37 Brook Street|  uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms |
  Montgomery, PA 17752|  72750.2335@compuserve.com |   --Yes

"The ultimate object of magic in all ages was and is to obtain control of
the sources of life."  (W. B. Yeats)

This is quoted in the book "Out There" by Howard Blum, which covers the
government's secret fascination with the possibility of extraterrestrial
life.  The combination reminded me of Windom Earle's and Project Bluebook's
quest for the black and white lodges in Twin Peaks.

--
  *  From the disk of:|  jms@vanth.uucp |  "Let's become
  Jim Shaffer, Jr.|  amix.commodore.com!vanth!jms  |   alive again."
  37 Brook Street|  uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms |
  Montgomery, PA 17752|  72750.2335@compuserve.com |   --Yes

Interesting.  Everybody obviously has different tastes in these things...

I liked the Denise character, laughed myself silly at Leo's progress (in
fact, since my wife bought a new pair of shoes while we were visiting
Snoqualmie recently, "Ppppppt! New shoes." has become a standard in
the lexicon; variations work great too... "Ppppppt! New booze." when
ordering a drink, etc.), and I found the Gordon/Shelley/Bobby interactions
touching and funny.

Have to agree, though, that the whole Little Nicky thing should never
have seen the light of day.  And the James-and-the-other-woman story
was pretty lame, though it didn't bother me the way it seems to have
affected some folk.

Before my recent pilgrimage to Twin Peaks, I rewatched the entire series
over a period of 4 or 5 days.  It was great!  And it really showed how
the pacing they had set for the show could have worked so much better
if only it had been aired regularly.  Even the worst bits, such as the
Little Nicky storyline, really weren't that big a diversion when the
shows weren't spaced weeks or months apart.  One of these days I think
I'll rewatch it one-show-per-day, which may be the optimal way to
enjoy it, given the one-day-per-show pacing they set for themselves
(though it'll be difficult to make myself stop after just a single episode
each night).
-- -larryy@apple.com "You wouldn't recognize a *subtle plan* if it painted itself purple, and danced naked upon a harpsichord, singing, 'Subtle Plans are Here Again'." - Edmund Blackadder

In article <13120@scolex.sco.COM> erics@sco.COM (eric smith) writes:
> >
> >as215@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alexander Aingworth) writes:
> >
>> >>just disappeared into the shadows, and many an incompetent
>> >>writer and director played a part in ruining _Twin Peaks_.  I
>> >>have yet to figure out why David Lynch and Mark Frost allowed
>> >>this to happen, aside from lazy disdain regarding a then
>> >>successful show.

> >Again, I agree. However, is it really true that Lynch and Frost
> >waited until the end of the first year to step aside? I seem to
> >remember that Lynch at least had little to do with the actual
> >direction of the show after the first episode or two.

> >My guess (and it's only a guess) is that having set up the show and
> >gotten all the attention of having it be acclaimed as a departure
> >for network TV, Lynch was basically bored at the idea of having tp
> >crank out a new episode every week, and preferred to leave that to

>> >> At this terrible turning point in the brief
>> >>life of _Twin Peaks_, the standard episode content became
>> >>outrageously bogged down with inane sub-plots, like Audrey
>> >>Horne's romance and Ben Horne's Civil War -- things any idiot

I'm getting tired of these gripes about the sub-plots so I have to say
(type) something.  True TP fans :) watched those talk
shows that Frost and company appeared on last spring and heard Frost
tell us that subplots would be intentionally introduced in the 2nd
season-- they were not, contrary to the apparently popular belief of
net-creatures, the product of last minute scrambling to get an hour
episode done on time.  This was an attempt to get people away from
thinking that if they hadn't been watching the show from the beginning,
then it was too late to start.  

Although I did think that the civil war business was dragged out too
long, some of the so-called sub-plots were done well enough to 
end up relating to the main story line(s) (i.e. BOB/the Lodges/WE).
For example, Josie's dealings with Jonathan, Eckhardt, etc., really made
Josie's death thrilling (because of all of the enemies she had made,
her last episode moved quickly and the fear thing made sense). How about 
Jean's speech before his death about 
"the nightmare?"  Even the major's disappearance didn't seem to be
as significant at first as it turned out to be.

Also remember that episodes in the U.S. were often separated by a week
or more (remember Dec/Jan?).  I wonder if Europeans & Austrailians found
that the show moved rather quickly (in comparison)--maybe fewer people
found the subplots as cumbersome.

> >Yes, if that. And what about the Nadine amnesia/super-strength
> >subplot? I have yet to figure out any connection between that
> >and the rest of the show.
By the "rest of the show" do you mean, "what does it have to
do with BOB, Laura, and Leland?"  I would say nothing.  However, it does
have to do with Ed and Hank who had both been pretty significant characters
from the beginning.  I think the deal is that we were supposed
to be wondering if Nadine would "come out of it" and maybe kill Ed (with
her super-strength) for sleeping with Norma.  By the way, I can't tell
from your comment if you understand this part:  Nadine was always strong
(remember her destroying the rowing machine?), Doc Hayward explained
the super-strength as a result of adrenilan she'd been pumping out after
her accident.  Her amnesia was probably a psychological phenomenon--
sort of a way to deny the failures of her "true" life (her relationship
with Ed, her lack of a patent on her drape runners...)

There is one other possibility with regards to Nadine's
relation to the rest of the story.  I used to think that the fact that
Cooper dreamed about curtains and the fact that Nadine was obsessed with
drapes runners was significant-- as if she knew about (what we now call) the
waiting room.  I also used to think that she had
maybe seen something through a window (i.e. Theresa's death) and was
trying to mentally "close the drapes" on that window through her
obsession with silent drape runners.  If the movie doesn't come out,
we'll probably never find out if Nadine was even around when Theresa
died.  

it's-too-late-to-re-read-this-so-I-hope-it's-coherent-ly yours,
Rocky Giovinazzo

In article <9100@umd5.umd.edu>, jblum@umd5.umd.edu (Jon Blum) writes...
> >Which brings to mind...  I was thinking about editing down (for use to be
> >determined later, as the copyright gods permit) my off-air copies of some
> >of the second-season episodes.  Is anyone interested in pondering the
> >question of what stories Twin Peaks would have focused on if it had stayed
> >focused, and which plotlines I should consign to oblivion?  My early list
> >of edit-outs include:
> > 
> >Norma's mom the food critic
> >The Milford Brothers / Lana the human pheromone
> >Ernie Nyles
> >The escapee from "Problem Child"
> >Denise Bryson
> >the Pine Weasel Riot
> >as much of the Ben Horne Civil War plot as possible
> >Bobby and Audrey's non-fling
> >and every last reference to Jean Renault
> > 
> >Anyone else got candidates for plotlines that we can easily forget?

Nadine's Wonder Woman clown role
the Lucy-Andy-Dick whodunnit love triangle
James' episode with Evelyn and Malcolm
        (come to think of it, according to the consensus on this group,
         anything that has to do with James)
Nicky the demon child (unless that was the "Problem Child" reference)

I agree with most of your list, but I did enjoy Denise.

I *STILL* miss Leland!
-->Daniel Pedersen

Steve Dallas wrote that he would like to see some discussion
relately to Lynch and some of his continuing work and thus
in that vain I was wondering if anyone out there has any
info. on his upcoming film "Ronnie Rocket," staring
Mike (Micheal, Mickey) Anderson, aka  MFAP?  I thought he
was to have begun filming early this summer. Has he begun
already? Who else is in it? And any info. what the plot
is about?--wasn't it one of the projects which he originally
developed for di Lorentis? 

Sally-


-- I really dislike it when people fondle my floss. || Sally A. Wilson (Jack Deveraux DOOL) || -So what if I have a I need to brush my teeth. || fetish for dental hygene- (CooBOB _Twin_Peaks_) || sally@mica.berkeley.edu

Certainly there has been a plethora of fascinating
artistic interpretation here on alt-tv-twin-peaks regarding the
one and only /\Twin Peaks/\.  However, despite all of the ar-
ticles which I have read, and all of the few interviews, I still
remain very much in the dark as to David Lynch.  I have seen 
many of his films and some of his are my favourites -- _Dune_ 
and _Eraserhead_ in particular.  Still, I do not know what Lynch
feels.  I have never heard or read him say how he happens to
interpret his art or what he is trying to get across with work
such as /\Twin Peaks/\ or _Eraserhead_.

Has anyone read or heard anything from Lynch, himself,
or is he really as quiet and secretive as I seem to believe.

On another note, Mark Frost is certainly much more 
vocal, but I have not heard or read him try to interpret th
meanings or symbolism of his works, either.  I am always
interested in hearing what the artists have to say about their
work.

--
Alexander Aingworth/as215 -- Cleveland FreeNet

'It's a far, far better thing I do, than I have ever done before
A far better resting place I go to, than I have ever known'

In article <1991Jul22.162407.12386@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, ceblair@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Charles Blair) writes:
> > kevink@fugitive.soac.bellcore.com (Kevin Klinge) writes:
> > 
>> >>4.  Gordon Cole's non-fling with Shelly.  The story went nowhere, and
>> >>I hardly see what it proved, and once Gordon left, I didn't see how
>> >>it related to TP other than the fact that Lynch liked this one female
>> >>co-star. 
> > 
> >    Somebody pointed out to me that Gordon saying to Bobby, ``Take another
> > look, it's happening again.''  was an echo of the Giant saying to
> > Cooper ``It is happening again.''

A VERY LOUD ECHO.

--Cool Bean
-- **This is not cultural.

In article <46659@netnews.upenn.edu> hafken@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (David Hafken) writes:
> >I for one think that this newsgroup indeed still does hold a purpose...

I agree.

Without this group, where will we discuss
Northern Exposure and Golden Years???

Mat


-- W Mat Waites mat@cdbhp1.UUCP | Unlike most of you, I am not a nut. {gatech,emory}!cdbhp1!mat | -H. Simpson

In article <1991Jul22.154353.9027@ncsu.edu> margaret@ecebucolix.ncsu.edu (Margaret Hudacko) writes:
> >Someone mentioned that Carel Struycken had played the original Lurch, but
> >I think that was Richard Keel [...] I *do* know that Carel Struycken
> >played Roger Corby's large android sentinel in the old Star Trek show
> >called "What Are Little Girls Made Of?"  Can anyone verify that it was
> >Richard Keel, *not* Carel Struycken that played the original Lurch?

*None* of the above is correct.

There are *three* people being discussed:

Ted Cassidy - played Lurch on the original Addams family,
              and Corby's assistant in "What Are Little Girls Made Of?";
              currently deceased.

Richard Kiel - played "Jaws" in the James Bond flicks.

Carel Struycken - played the Giant in Twin Peaks and Lwaxana Troi's manservant
               in the Star Trek: The Next Generation.

Note that none of them are Mick Fleetwood.

(Mick Fleetwood played a normal-sized alien in Star Trek: The Next Generation
(wearing a full-body costume that obscured his face)).

This must be at least the fourth time this topic has come up in various
newsgroups.  Someone really ought to add this to the Frequently Asked
Questions lists in rec.arts.tv, alt.tv.twin-peaks, rec.arts.startrek...

-- Bernie Roehl, University of Waterloo Electrical Engineering Dept Mail: broehl@sunee.waterloo.edu OR broehl@sunee.UWaterloo.ca BangPath: {allegra,decvax,utzoo,clyde}!watmath!sunee!broehl Voice: (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]

But I guess I should have expected that knowing Lynch's somewhat bizarre
ideas...

Nonetheless, I still was very disappointed to watch the last episode.
Coop running about in red curtains, ending up breaking a mirror with his
face, clearly possessed by BOB....

Disappointing, IMHO.

*sigh*
-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Asger Hoegsted, Comp. Science, University of Copenhagen, Denmark -- -- E-mail : bims@freja.diku.dk -- -- --

broehl@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Bernie Roehl) writes:

> >Ted Cassidy - played Lurch on the original Addams family,
> >              and Corby's assistant in "What Are Little Girls Made Of?";
> >              currently deceased.

    Which currently deceased character do you want back most?  Leland? Josie?
the Renault brothers?  Thomas Eckard?  Blackie?  Jeffrey Marsh? Harold Smith?
   [hate to admit it, but I don't want Laura & Maddie back--- it would
    mess up the plot too much]

I received the following letter about a month ago (reprinted here without
permission, of course):

------------
The Twin Peaks Gazette
P.O. Box 1804
Pacific Palisades, CA  90272

June 10, 1991

Dear Subscriber:

Due to ABC's cancellation of "Twin Peaks", we will no longer be able to 
publish the Twin Peaks Gazette monthly. However, our intent is to
continue publishing the Gazette periodically, as Lynch/Frost Productions
intend to produce a "Twin Peaks" movie, or perhaps a series of feature
films. We plan to publish fewer but expanded issues (more inside scoop,
more Horne's items) this fall and winter in conjunction with the
production of the "Twin Peaks" film.

As a subscriber, you should have received three issues of the Gazette
(February, March and April, 1991), a Sheriff's Department Coffee Mug and
a residence card. If you have not, please write to the Twin Peaks
Gazette, P.O Box 1804, Pacific Palisades, CA 90272. Let us know when you
ordered and what you have received, and if you have had a change of
address. If you paid for your subscription after May 1, 1991, allow
another two weeks for delivery before writing. Please do not contact the
800 number, as the operators cannot expedite your order.

We regret that we have had to change our original vision of a monthly
issue written in collaboration with the weekly TV shows. However, we
anticipate that "Twin Peaks" will continue to live in theater release
and that we will be able to continue as the town newspaper. Of course,
all subscribers would continue to receive the Gazette in its new,
expanded format.

Thank you on behalf of of the Twin Peaks Gazette and Lynch/Frost
Productions for all your creative submissions and supportive letters.
Contest entries are still accepted! It is disappointing that "Twin
Peaks" will no longer exist as a television show, but we are taking the
practical advice of Gordon Cole to "let a smile be our umbrella."

Sincerely,

The Twin Peaks Gazette Staff

In article <9107230830.AA20472@cwns1.INS.CWRU.Edu> as215@cleveland.Freenet.Edu writes:
> >
> >and _Eraserhead_ in particular.  Still, I do not know what Lynch
> >feels.  I have never heard or read him say how he happens to
> >interpret his art or what he is trying to get across with work
> >such as /\Twin Peaks/\ or _Eraserhead_.
I don't remember the exact quote, but I read Lynch saying that
he hasn't been trying to get anything across-- it was something like, 
"If you want to send a message, call Western Union."

Rocky Giovinazzo

In article <2988@calmasd.Prime.COM> jpb@calmasd.Prime.COM (Jan Bielawski) writes:
> >
> >And in September, I think, the *European* version of the pilot
> >is coming out on video.  I can imagine the confusion now: the murderer
> >is revealed in the pilot and then the investigation proceeds anyway
> >in episodes 1-7!

> >Jan Bielawski
> >Computervision R&D, San Diego
> >jpb@calmasd.prime.com

I just rented the currently-available version of the Laserdisc
(with the Japanese subtitles) last weekend.  (Is it the same as
the European version? I dunno.  Same as the one that's about to
come out? I dunno.)

It sure was a shock to the system to see it all resolved in the
last 15 minutes:

Oh, yeah:  SPOILERS follow...


The first hour and three quarters (or so) was the same(*) as the
pilot.  Then in a couple of minutes it all concludes:

We get a scene of Andy and Lucy cozying up at Lucy's apartment.
Lucy is interrupted to handle a few phone calls, pointing
everyone to the final denouement.  Mike says "Bob's in the
basement".  Everybody bops down to the basement.  Sure enough,
Bob is lurking in the basement.  A little dialog ensues but is
interrupted by Mike bursting in and shooting Bob.  And Bob just
dies.

(*) I admit it, I didn't keep my tapes of the pilot, or most of
the series.  So I can't say for sure what, if any, minor
differences there were between the real pilot and the first part
of this version.

Bob Clements, K1BC, clements@bbn.com

In article <1991Jul23.030925.22951@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu>, dtburton@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Darren Todd Burton) writes:
|> ii7gjg0b@serss0.fiu.edu (Jim Stafford) writes:
|> 
|> >the bulb light up in your mouth by shorting the two terminals with the
|> >foil.  I also had a Thing bank.  Put a coin in the slot/holder thingie and
|> >the box would open and a little green hand came out and grabbed it.  Hey,
|> >it beat the hell out of Ninja turtles!
|> 
|> >Now if someone could tell me who played cousin It, my life would be complete.
|> 
          Hey, that's Cousin ITT.  And you call yourself a fan...  :-)
-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian D. Moore | Homebrewing -- the only sport exclusively for Space Physics and Astronomy | anal-retentive alcoholics. Rice University, Houston TX | Relax -- have a home brew. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In article <1991Jul23.030925.22951@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu> dtburton@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Darren Todd Burton) writes:
 >ii7gjg0b@serss0.fiu.edu (Jim Stafford) writes:
 >
 >>the bulb light up in your mouth by shorting the two terminals with the
 >>foil.  I also had a Thing bank.  Put a coin in the slot/holder thingie and
 >>the box would open and a little green hand came out and grabbed it.  Hey,
 >>it beat the hell out of Ninja turtles!
 >
 >>Now if someone could tell me who played cousin It, my life would be complete.
 >
 >>jimbo   
 >
 >Hey Jimbo I was kinda of wondering what happens to us when our
 >life is completed?  Do we just die, or sit around and listen
 >to our favorite Replacements CD?  Well I will just 
 >Let it Be.
 >
 >Darren T. Burton in search for total realty and happines
 >dtburton@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu

Gee, Darren, I didn't know you'd take it so seriously!  I guess I meant 
to say "completer"!  8-)

By the way, what is total realty?  Is that when everyone dies and becomes
a real estate agent in California?

jimbo

Sorry for possibly overlapping the thread, but can someone summarize the
different version/format that TP video materials are to be published?

Gone for a couple months, and now I'm totally lost! :-0


William



-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- email: lai@seas.gwu.edu (preferred) | "Life is cheap, but toilet paper is lai_wy%ncsd@gte.com | expensive." -Movie Title -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In article <1991Jul20.135853.1952@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, walsh@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Edward E Walsh) writes:
> > From New York Newsday, Fri. 7/19/91:
> > 
> >      <Stuff deleted>
> >   
> >      Lady's chunk of w LARA FLYNN BOYLE, who played Donna, will
> >      star opposite DENNIS HOPPER in "Innocent Blood," which Warner's
> >      describes as a vampire-gangster flick.  What, blood-sucking
> >      mobsters?  EVERETT McGILL and WENDY ROBIE (Ed and his whacked-out
> > 
> > /Ned
> > walsh@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu

Lara Flynn Boyle also appears in the new Brat Pack (Christian
Slater, Richard Grieco) movie "Mobsters."  IMO, it's an
"Untouchables" rip-off, as well as a waste of such beauty to be
playing opposite such a rerun as Slater.

Also, I'm all for whatever can be done to briung back TP.  It is
missed greatly here.

On Golden Years--I thought it was awful.  I read that Stephen King
said it was supposed to be TP without the delerium, so I tuned in,
hoping to see something familiar.  I was bored, bored, bored.  It
was King rehashing his same old plots without much change, if any.
Maybe if he did something with The Dark Tower series.  Now that
could be good TV.

trip3

Personally, I liked Gordon, or should I say I LIKED GORDON.  I found his
character and his character's interactions with the town folk to be quite
refreshing (much like Cooper when he first arrived in Twin Peaks; over-
joyed at the simple pleasures of life they enjoyed, like superb cherry
pie and 'a damn fine cup of coffee').  I think the Gordon/Shelly thing
was more "Twin Peaks-ish" (more that the first seasons episodes that we
all seem to agree were better than the second's) than most of the other
sub-plots.

Can those of you who didn't like the Gordon/Shelly thing truthfully
say that it wasn't at least a little funny?  Gordon would lean across
the table toward Shelly, saying to her in an almost whisper how well
he could hear her, or how beautiful she looked, then immediatly turn
to Cooper and SCREAM ABOUT HOW GOOD THAT CHEERY PIE WAS!!


Darryl friesen
friesenda@sask.usask.ca