Fire Walk with Me — August 28, 1992–December 31, 1992

   Sorry if somebody already mentioned this, but I think the
monkey is a half-baked reference to THE PRISONER.

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ww10aac@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Eddie the 'ead) writes:

> >   a.  The useless Leo and Shelley scene.

    I can't imagine Leo scrubbing floors for any reason.

   Also, if Mr Gerard knew Leland was BoB, why the false alarm about
Ben Horne in the TV version?

   I still want to see a meeting of the shoe salesman:

   Phillip Gerard and Al Bundy

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In article <1992Aug30.224642.15953@ncsu.edu> rmaddy@che20.ncsu.EDU (Richard M Addy) writes:
> >
> >FWWM spoilers DEAD ahead

> >
> >
B
> >What was the significance of the blue rose?  All the other clues the
> >lady in red had were very obvious, as far as symbolism went (I'll admit
> >I didn't catch them when she appeared, though).  A blue rose - something
> >that doesn't exist naturally?  Therefore, an unusual or supernatural
> >Acase?  Anyone?  Anyone?

Perhaps the blue rose signifies Project BlueBook, the UFO project that
Windom Earl was involved with in the 60's. Project BlueBook is a very real
government project (still in operation??).  Big top secret UFO thing.

> > Also, I missed the first season of the series - were the old lady and
> >the kid who gave Luara from that period?  I think they're from the White
> >Lodge, but then why were they in the same room with Bob when David
> >Bowie's character started ranting and talking about how he had seen one
> >of their meetings.

spoilers up ahead for first few episodes of season 2:


Mrs. Tremond and her grandson appeared early in the second season.  They lived
across from Harold Smith, sort of. Actually we find out later on that somebody
else had been living there....a totally different Mrs. Tremond with NO grandson
and no record of the older woman anywhere.  It's probably not technically 
accurate to call the old woman Mrs. Tremond--maybe Old Woman And Grandson 
(OWaG)? Old Woman and Boy (OWaB)?  


They gave me the creeps even more in the movie.

ferenc

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> >George D Emmons writes:
>> >> 6) Why was Austin (Pierre Tremond) wearing a mask? I thought the 
>> >>    mask was a one-time symbol of BOB, yet Austin was wearing the 
>> >>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  mask throughout the film.

Why? Where?  

Robert Michl

(rmichl@iiic.ethz.ch)

*****************************************************************
->My mother's name is Margaret (like the log Lady)
->My brother's called Dennis (remember Denise Bryson?)
->We're Twins
->I'm BOB
->and my sister - guess what ? - Laura!
Well, the last names have been changed to protect the innocent...
*****************************************************************



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In article <1992Sep1.204412.18637@mdd.comm.mot.com> wu@mdd.comm.mot.com (Philip Wu) writes:
|In <p9efkuk@fido.asd.sgi.com> sjohnson@faulen.asd.sgi.com (Scott Johnson) writes:
|
|>In <Btv7JC.9Dz@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> ceblair@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Charles Blair) writes:
|
|
|>>   It seemed as if Cooper kept going back and forth between the area
|>>the camera was surveying and the TV monitor for no good reason right
|>>before Bowie showed up.  Did I miss something?
|
|>i think he sensed time slowing down, as someone else mentioned.  so much
|>that he went to the display room first, saw nothing.  went to the
|>display room a second time, saw his arm in the door.  and then went
|>to the display room a third time, and saw himself stuck there in
|>time as jeffries walked by, unhindered by time.  just a guess?

The second time I went to the movie, I watched *VERY* closely for this,
and saw no arm in the door.  Besides, even if we did see an arm, wouldn't
we be tying that scene in with the one armed man?

|He already had a dream about this.  That's why he was so concerned when
|he went up to Lynches character and said "It's 10:02 already".  He
|was expecting this to happen.

ObDirectQuoteFromFilm:  "Gordon, it's 10:10 February 16th."

|I think..
|
|Phil

One interesting fact:  We have discussed the references to WoOz, but
it seems that noone has felt that references to Alice in Wonderland/
Behind the Looking Glass would be worth the time to discuss them.


-- ---------------------------+- If we took the bones out, it wouldn't -- jsnyder@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | be crunchy, would it? - MPFC ---------------------------+ That is your reciept for your husband, and this is my reciept for your reciept. - Brazil

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In article <15237@umd5.umd.edu> jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog here...) writes:
|In article <KANDALL.92Sep1170900@globalize.nsg.sgi.com> kandall@nsg.sgi.com (Michael Kandall) writes:
|
|>Why did Leland's hair turn white in the TV series?  I thought it was
|>because BOB had taken over his mind/body/soul.  Coop said he should
|>have realized earlier that BOB's grey, greasy hair, and the sudden
|>change in Leland's hair was related.
|
|>In the movie, it seems that BOB had controled Leland from long ago.
|
|I think the change came about because Leland's actions AS LELAND were
|getting more Bob-like.  Apparently his killing of Jacques was his own
|act, not that of BOB.  Also, while his attack on Jacoby has been
|labeled an act of BOB by the producers, his sneaking out to follow Maddy
|earlier in that episode seems to have been Leland acting on his own.
|
|Before BOB could assert control over Leland only for moments.  Now Leland
|himself is becoming more BOB-like -- one of Robert's children.  Now that
|he has become a creature of BOB, able to commit violent acts free from guilt
|or shame (like killing Jacques), he is marked by the appearance of BOB.
|
|Sound good?

Not really ;)... I think the net.consensus from the series was a determination
that grey hair represents that the character has killed someone, probably
with malice.  I seem to remember a thread on this subject from the beginning
of the second season...

I do like the idea that here in that it ties everyone into the lodges.

Is the entire town posessed?  Is this all just a giant Twilight Zone?

-- ---------------------------+- If we took the bones out, it wouldn't -- jsnyder@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | be crunchy, would it? - MPFC ---------------------------+ That is your reciept for your husband, and this is my reciept for your reciept. - Brazil

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In article <6081@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:
|In article <1992Sep1.000831.7920@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, jjc4@po.CWRU.Edu (James J. Campanella) writes:
|
|> Okay, I got the distinct impression that the inhabitants of the Black 
|> Lodge "eat" pain and suffering (Garbonsiviaum, not even close, sorry).
|> Further, I got the impression that Bob is almost a butcher for the group.
|> That he must kill whoever wears that dreaded green ring. Near the end
|> of the movie, the dwarf and one-armed man asked for their share of the pain and 
|> suffering...
|> 2.) Do they *need* to cosume the pain and suffering
|> or do they do it for some other reason?
|> 3.) When the one-armed man saw the light and became
|> "good", he must have stopped consuming pain...
|
|What was the line MIKE spouted about -- "Appetite... fulfillment... a
|golden ring of (something).."?

Oooooo...you're good!

"Appetite...  Satisfaction...  A golden circle."
"A golden circle?  My ring!  My ring!"
...
"You have all the answers you need."

Good connection - this had not ocurred to me, and it ties in well to the
addiction theory.



-- ---------------------------+- If we took the bones out, it wouldn't -- jsnyder@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | be crunchy, would it? - MPFC ---------------------------+ That is your reciept for your husband, and this is my reciept for your reciept. - Brazil

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In article <la8ag4INNr7t@news.bbn.com> ingria@BBN.COM writes:
|
|Look!  It's Leland Palmer as the Hanged Man!  Cooper as the Magus!
|BoB as Death!  I just got the Ace of Coffee Cups!  (My Ghod, a Twin
|Peaks Tarot set?!?)
|

Or maybe only collectable cards?  A tarot deck with only 78 cards?

<shivver>

-- ---------------------------+- If we took the bones out, it wouldn't -- jsnyder@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | be crunchy, would it? - MPFC ---------------------------+ That is your reciept for your husband, and this is my reciept for your reciept. - Brazil

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In article <4245@3cpu.rain.com> edrury@.UUCP (Ed Drury) writes:

<much deleted>

| To me, the closet tie to TP:FWWM is that of the
|shaman or the quatum physicist and the works of Fred Alan Wolf have the
|most links. But look at what he has us talking about! Is Twin Peaks simply
|a call to think? Research? Read? Be inquisitive?
|
| Yes, I think it is.
|
|-- 
|   __
| /--   __/
|(___, (_/rury@3cpu.rain.com

That could explain why there is alt.tv.twin-peaks, but no
alt.tv.threes-company
alt.tv.gillians-island
alt.tv.cheers
alt.tv.<fill-in-the-blank-and-win-a-free-subscription-to-the-TVGuide>

I wouldn't have liked the show nearly as much had I not been able to
read the ideas that have been bounced around the net.

Here's to cranial activity!


-- ---------------------------+- If we took the bones out, it wouldn't -- jsnyder@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | be crunchy, would it? - MPFC ---------------------------+ That is your reciept for your husband, and this is my reciept for your reciept. - Brazil

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I am in dire need of an episode guide to Twin Peaks.  Somebody out there
has got one, please email or post, and a great big thanks.
-Steve

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lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:

> > iott@rtsg.mot.com (Joel K. Iott) writes:
> > 
>> > > The following post contains MAJOR spoilers for Twin Peaks:Fire Walk With
>> > > Me.  It is intended to be read by people who have already seen the
>> > > movie. 
> > 
>> > > In the train car, an angel appears and saves Ronette Pulaski.  The angel
>> > > appears later in the red room (?) 
> > 
> > The angel is Laura.

I thought so too at first. However, the cast listing shows the names of the
actresses who played Laura's Angel and Ronette's Angel. I believe they're
the last two items on the cast list as shown in the movie.

--
"Go to an extreme and then retreat to a more useful position"  --  Brian Eno
Joe Zitt        ...cs.utexas.edu!kvue!zitt!joe         (512)450-1916

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You said that the film was probably hacked up by the Ontario censors.
The film here in Quebec ran the full allotted length (about 140 minutes).
Was that how long it ran there?


- Eva










--
Andre Berthiaume  |  "Sometimes you're the windshield,
 |   Sometimes you're the bug"
    berthiau@iro.umontreal.ca    |
 |       Dire Straits, The Bug

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   I saw FWWM las night, and it is obvious that this movie exists in various
edited forms because some of the scenes that people are describing were not
in the version I saw.  

This is about all I can remember on the first (and last) try (I have 
jumbled some of the scenes in my mind though...

The movie begins by showing static of a television.  It backs up and the
TV explodes.  Chet & Sam are shown next arresting 2 women oustide of a schoolbusof crying children.  Gordon calls Chet back to Pittsburgh.  Chet talks to
Gordon for a while in the car.  At an airport, Gordon introduces Chet and
Gordon to the "Lady in Red".  The Lady in Red does a retarded dance.  We
see flashes of static and flashes of a body floating down a river.  Later in the car Chet explains to Sam that this is one of Gordons codes.  He explains the symbolic meaning of everything the woman does except for one "The Blue Rose"
on her dress.  Chet says that this is one of Gordons "Blue Rose" cases and
the meaning of this symbol must be kept a secret.
Chet & Sam investigate the Theresa Banks murder.  They go to see the sheriff
who is impossible to get in to see.  The 2 people in the outer office sit
and laugh at a book.  Sam calculates the value of the furniture in the office.
Chet forces his way in and gets just a little information out of the sheriff.
Chet & Sam go eat at the local diner where an old man in the back room speaks
to them over flashing lights.  A woodsman sits in the corner.  I could not
understand everything the man says, it was something like:
        'talk to Edith, but don't mention the night'
They go to talk to the waitress at the counter who seems to think that
Theresa Banks murder was an accident.  A man in the back harrasses them
about the murder.  Chet tricks sam into pouring coffee on himself. Next,
they leave the diner to take a look at Theresa Banks body.  They peel
back her fingernail to find a T and they notice that her ring is missing.
Next they visit the trailer park of Carl Rodd. They go into Theresa Banks
trailer to talk.  An odd, dark looking woman with an ice pack comes out
from a back room in the trailer.  Chet says: do you know who killed Theresa
Banks?  The woman backs up behind the corner and nothing more is said.
Chet goes to a different trailer and finds a ring with a green stone on
it that has the symbol from the top of Owl Cave on a mound of dirt.  Chet
& the trailer disappear from the trailer park when he picks up the ring.
There is also a phone pole in the trailer park that is shown twice.  The
numbers are something like:
                            26710
                            BIG 6
It Pittsburgh; Gordon, Cooper & Albert are at work.  Cooper tells Albert
about how he has had a premonition that a young blond high school girl will be murdered, but he does not know how he knows.  Cooper goes out into the hallway
& looks into a security camera & then into the nearby security room several times.  The last time he sees himself on the camera, and Agent Phillip Jefferies
walking down the hallway (there is no Buenos Aires' in our version.)  Jefferies
stumbles into the rooms and says: 'I want to tell you everything, but I don't have a lot to go on.  But I'll tell you one thing, Judy is positive about this'
Now, at the start of the next sentence the screen starts flashing with static
and the convenience store scene is melded with Jefferies explanation.  The
2 combinations are almost impossible to understand when they are running
at the same time.  The version I saw ended with Cole saying "For God sakes,
Jefferies, you've been gone nearly 2 years & Bob saying 'Fire Walk with Me"
- in the simultaneous collage of the 2 scenes.  The only thing said in the
red room is - "This is a formica table" "Green is its color" "With Chrome
& everything will proceed cyclically." "I have the fury of my own momentum"
& "Fire Walk with me". The rest has been (poorly) edited.  During the
collage, Mrs. Tremonts grandson removes a white pointed nose mask and
replaces it.  When he removes it again he is a monkey.  He replaces the  
mask again.  Bob and Mike walk into the Red room at the end of the scene.
When we come back to 'Pittsburgh' Albert verifies with the secretary downstairs that Jeffries was never there.  Cooper goes to investigate the trailer park
of Carl Rodd & doesn't really find anything.  
(Remember Harry saying in episode 1 'Same thing as happened last year in
Blodgetts Barn?', when they found Laura?)
Next the scene flashes to 'ONE YEAR LATER'
Here are the 'Laura scenes' summarized outo of order:
Laura walking down the street.  She meets Donna (now played by Moira Kelly).
We see Mike also. Laura/Donna go to school - not much happens there (except
for the strange dance Bobby & the others do).           
At home, he father tells her to wash her hands - he says she may have some
dirt under 1 of her fingernails & grabs her by the face.  Ms. Palmer screams
'Stop it', 'She doesn't like that'.
Laura finds 2 pages torn out of her diary.
Laura does a lot of cocaine & smokes & drinks at various times in the movie.
Donna talks to Laura about nothing important.
Mrs. Tremond & her son catch Laura as she is going to deliver the 'Meals on Wheels' program.  Mrs. Tremond & her grandson (wearing the white pointed mask) give
Laura a picture.  The grandson mentions something about 'The man behind the
fan.'  Laura walks into her room & sees Bob (& the inside of his mouth.)
Laura is raped by Bob when the electrical sparks in her room & the fan just 
outside are going.  Laura dreams of a room the next night with torn pink rose
wallpaper that leads to the red drape room.  A pink rose appears on her door.
Mrs. Tremond & her grandson are in the room. LMFAP is in the the room
holding the Green ring toward the screen.  Cooper (from future) says "Laura,
don't take the ring.)  Anne appears in Laura's bed.  Anne says.  I have
been with the good Dale who is trapped in the black lodge.  Write it in
your diary.  Laura wakes up with everything O.K.   
Laura identifies the next day after her dream as "Day One" in her diary.
Laura tells Mr. Palmer to 'stay away from her' after the dream.
Laura has a picture with an angel standing behind a a table with a family
eating dinner.
Laura goes over to Donna's hysterical after seeing Bob in her room one day.
Laura & Donna go on a trip one noght with Jacques, Leo & one other to a
Canadian alternative bar where they do drugs, drink & get naked. (Unfortunately
the morality of this part of the movie falls so low that most people will
probably walk out during this scene - what was this part for?  Trying to
outdo Basic Instinct for sleazy sex scenes in an R movie???  A few of the
women in the theater I was in left during this scene, but most of the
guys stayed.  I have to admit that I was wondering how much I could pay
Sheryl Lee to come to visit me at a bar near school after this part of the
movie.)  Donna borrows Laura's shirt.  Laura gets oddly upset about Donna
'borrowing her things' 
Laura & Donna somehow make it home the next night.
Laura & Bobby meet a guy in the woods for a Drug deal. Laura is out of
it.  The guy pulls a gun on Bobby & Bobby shoots him (3 times).  Bobby
tries to bury the guy.  Laura laughs & keeps saying 'You killed Mike.'
Laura & her father go driving somewhere.  Logging truck gets held up
by 2 old people crossing the street (one possibly the woman from the
trailer park.)  The one armed man desperately tries to flag down 
Leland.  Her father revs up the car.  Laura smells the burning engine
oil & says (mirroring Maddy's statements) 'What burning?  What's that
smell?)  The One Armed Man turns the truck around to the wrong side
of the street & yells: "You stole the corn (pain & suffering).  I had
it canned over the store.  And miss, the look on her face when it
was opened.  There was a closeness.  Like the formica table top.
The thread will be torn, Mr. Palmer.  The thread will be torn!  It's
him, its your father!!
Back at Laura's house the angel disappears off of her painting.
Leland has flashbacks of his affair with Theresa Banks.  He remembers
murdering Theresa Banks & throwing her body in the river wrapped
in a white bag.  He must have also taken her ring.  He remembers
telling Theresa that he is backing out (she was blackmailing him).
Leland walks off.  The grandson pops out of the bushes & dances.  We
hear 'Black dog runs at night'.  A Black dog barked twice during
the One Armed Man yelling at Leland scene.  Leland remembers killing
Theresa.  Laura remembers sitting with Ronette on a bed in lingerie (
a good thing to show ). 

Laura remembers that Theresa had the same green ring.  
Laura-Ronette-Jacques party at cabin.  Laura is looking mighty fine.
Jacques ties up Laura and has his way with her.  Waldo is there.  Leland
shows up.  Leland beats Jacque up when he walks out of the cabin.  Leo
takes off in his red corvette.  Leland pushes the girls to the train
car all tied up.  Leland torments  Laura.  Leland puts a mirror in front
of Laura.  Laura sees her face and then Bobs.  The One Armed man has been
chasing Leland through the woods.  He reaches the train car.  The one
armed man gets Ronettes door open.  Ronnete sees a white angel that
looks like Laura. Ronette is kicked out of the train car.  Laura is
killed with a knife.  Leland puts the green ring on Laura's hand.
Leland wraps Laura in a bag and dumps her in the river.
Leland holds up one half of the heart necklace.
We see the body floating down the river.  The next morning we see
Harry's hand start to take the plastic off.
Leland goes into Glastonberry Grove into the Black Lodge.
Leland floats to the ceiling.  One armed man gives his blood to the lodge.
(after the OAM and LMFAP say 'We want all our garmbozia (pain & suffering.)
We see someone eating the corn off of a spoon.
We see the face of the monkey again.
We see Laura in the Red room crying while cooper holds her hand.  An
angel appears overhead & Laura starts to laugh.  The movie ends with
Laura's face in a white glow and then the crdits.
Other things I forgot to mention:
Laura calls herself a turkey in an incredibly retarded scene with James.
(but we do get to see her topless again.)
Laura mentions that Theresa also worked at one eyed jacks.
Mrs. palmer sees the White Horse again one night in a vision.
Laura focuses on the wires and electricity as she is walking down the
street (I think this is how Phillip Jeffries travels.)
Laura visits Harold & tells him to hide her diary.  She tells him that
she will probably will not see him again.   Then she gets very angry
and yells "fire walk with me"  Her lips turn black (similar to the
way Windom Earl was & the man behind the mask.)  
In a short scene the Log Lady says something outside the Roadhouse to
Laura like 'bad feelings can turn your heart to the evil side in time
like these'
Laura tells James she is 'going home'.  
Theresas left arm went numb before she was killed. 

Overall I thought,  Chris Issak should give up acting.
                    Kiefer Sutherland did a poor job.  One more 'golly gee
Agent Chet Desmond where to now??? and I would have screamed.'
                    Sheryl Lee did way too much of the movie.  None of
the other characters were developed much at all.
                    The movie looks like it was just made to give a better
ending than the series had.  I really hope he does not make any more though
because his latest movies have gotten off the 'logic' track.
                    Moira Kelly didn't impress me that much.  
                    The film & sound quality was poor in places (if that 
was due to a low budget, I guess it couldn't be helped.
I really couldn't recommend this movie to anyone.  It is about as bad as
Wild at Heart.  It lacks style more than anything else.

Here is how it goes:    Eraserhead:     Average
                        Blue Velvet:    Awesome
                        Dune:           Good
                        Wild at Heart:  Retarded
                        Twin Peaks (season 1) : Awesome
                        Twin Peaks (season 2) : Good
                        On the Air:     Extremely Retarded
                        FWWM:           Average to Bad

New symbols from the movie?: Blue rose, pink rose, black dog, white mask, 
monkey, angel.
By the way, there were 5 rings all together....


Rings:  Audrey - See my ring? - to cooper.
        Theresa - The green ring.
        Windome Earl - The twisted snake ring.
        Cooper - The gold circle ring.
        Donna - The diamond ring James gave her.
 

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Hi fellow peakers...
This is my first time to post, but I have been reading for about 5
months. Anyway, I FINALLY saw the movie TP FWWM last night, and I now
know what you guys have been talking about!!!
Well, now having seen the movie, and having seen all the tv episodes
(season 1 twice) I am still
**confused**

So, here are my questions (excuse me if they were discussed and
discarded prior to my joining the group!)

1.What does the creamed corn symbolize? I remember Ms. Tremont
(sp?) not wanting it on her meals-on-wheels meal, and her 
grandson making it 'appear' in his hands. And then in the
movie, the person (BOB, MIke?) eating it from the spoon. (I
also noticed, this effect seemed to be shown backwards..as tho
the person was filmed spitting out the creamed corn, and it
was shown in 'reverse'.

2.I did NOT understand the reference to the blue rose type of
case. I don't remember the Laura Palmer case being referred to
with the blue rose by Cole to Cooper in the series, but I
might just not remember. Or, is it something purely in the
film? And WHAT DOES IT MEAN?????

3.Theresa Banks ring. There has been speculation that the ring,
symbolizing a circle, symbolizing a circular time line, or 
that whoever wears the ring is the next to die or something
like that. But what about the symbols ON the ring? Weren't 
those same symbols the same ones on the wall of the cave in
Twin Peaks? (At this time I forget what the symbols meant, 
except that they inferred something about the white lodge, or
somthing else mystical. Or am I remembering the those symbols 
wrong? (Also, someone, maybe cooper, drew the same symbol on a
napkin in the double R diner at one time...)

Also, the angel in the train car. At first I thougt it looked like
Annie but some of you say it was Laura, some don't. I don't know and I
would have to see the credits and movie again to decide. 
And, the David Bowie part. I figured out that he was perhaps another
agent that was working on an angle of the 'mystical' case/cases (?)
that the FBI seems involved in and that he was at or caught at a
meeting of the folk from somewhere else (I also dislike aliens :), but
anyway, I recognized everyone except for the guy who was in the upper
left hand corner that was dressed in red and looked Japanese (?)
either in hairstyle or mask or something. (I am not referring to the
plain white mask w/ long nose that the boy wears, but that other
guy...) Anyone know who/what that was? Also, I agree with whoever
decided that it was a monkey behind the mask the second time the
grandson moves the mask aside...

*whew*

I guess that is all for now, but I hope some interesting commentary
erupts from my questions, so that at least *I* know what is going 
on!!!

:)
Thanks for listing...er reading!

Susan

*******************************************************************
sbiles@dante.nmsu.edu"DO NOT EVER KNOCK
student of edcucation BEFORE 9AM EVER!!!"
and proud Democrat
*******************************************************************

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-> BUt he also saw BoB and Leland seperately. I don't think he
-> ever saw the OAM in the Lodge, did he?
The only time we or anyone elce for that matter saw both Leland and BOB at 
the same time was when Lealand was flowting in the film.

-> I think you might be confusing MIKE the spirit with Phillip
-> Gerard, the man.
No, Mike took the arm off. Because he was in the OAM (Phillip Gerard) at the 
time the OAM felt the effects. What I was saying is that if the LMFAP(the 
miget) is Mike's arm as he implies in FWWM then he cauld not be MIKE as a 
whole. 


 /-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| It's all a game...                                                        |
|                        Gregory C. Salmieri                                |
|                                                       ...It's all the same|
 \-------------------------------------------------------------------------/

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        Has anyone written a Twin Peaks episode guide?  I still don't 
know how many episodes of Twin Peaks there were..  My local video store 
has only the first 7 episodes on tape, so no chance of amassing it all 
from there.
        I heard that the Twin Peaks series came out on LaserDisc in Japan 
but not in America.  Is there any truth to this?

-----
Doug Cha
dcha@flex.com  

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I guess anyone not wanting to read spoilers has unsubscribed by now, but 
anyway, press 'n' to skip these spoilers or *read on*

  I noticed a bit of confusion about Mike's arm and his part in Bob's
crimes, I'm not sure if this has been answered, but:
  Philip Gerard, Mike's host, has only one arm in the film because he has 
already 'seen the face of God' and 'taken the arm off'. In the street at the
lights he tries to warn Laura of her father/Bob.
  In the Lodge, he asks for his 'Garmonbozia (pain and suffering)' because he
is reattatched to his arm, he and the Man from Another Place speak as one and
the MFAP has his hand on Mike's shoulder.

  This may be a bit contrived, but the telegraph pole bears the numbers 12480
and 6. If you sum the digits of 12480 you get 15, sum those and get 6. So 
that's two sixes. I looked hard for another, but couldn't see one. 666 is 
probably too traditional for Lynch anyway.

Mark.

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In article <la5eh7INNsam@news.bbn.com> hagstrop@oberon.mathcs.carleton.edu (Paul Hagstrom) writes:
|Interesting -- apparently nobody on this group was one of the people who was  
|fortunate enough to attend the screening in Mpls at which Robert Engels  
|(co-author of FWWM, for those who don't recognize the name, which I may have  
|misspelled, but I don't think so) spoke.  He did clear up a few things that  
|people have wondered about since our Internet connection went down, so I'll try  
|to fill y'all in on what he said:

No, I was only fortunate (this is my fortunate...day) enough to win free
tickets to the preview in our town...but...I did get two FWWM shirts and a
movie poster out of it...

|First, the movie was, in uncut form, about 3:40, in contrast to the measly 2:09  
|that it pulled in at in the theatres.  He said that they expect to distribute  
|the uncut version eventually on laserdisc, but the folks in charge wouldn't let  
|them get away with a movie that long, apparently.  Who the "folks in charge"  
|are, exactly, I'm not sure, but it wasn't Robert Engels, anwyay.  Apparently,  
|what got cut was mostly from the first half -- Keifer's part was, as the story  
|goes, hilarious.  There was a lot of funny stuff going on that just got  
|chopped.  It seems that he spent a lot of time going over what things must  
|cost, although we only got the tiniest glimpse of that (he mentioned once what  
|the police department must have cost).  He also was quite keen on looking into  
|every one of the casket-things in the morgue, but that was cut.  The scene at 3  
|(or 4) in the morning at the diner had some stuff in it that was cut too: all  
|of that flickering blue light came from people trying to torch open a safe, and  
|there were a few other obscurish jokes that were fully explained in the uncut  
|version, but left to speculation in the cut version.  Robert Engels had thought  
|that it wasn't possible to read the guy's button, but a lot of people in the  
|theater had managed to see it in the brief glimpse we got of it -- I assume  
|that it is made the object of more central focus in the uncut film.  Anyway,  
|all in all, I'm very much looking forward to seeing that 3:40 version.

Acutally, I recall a Terry Giliam quote to the effect of
"American audiences can take length, but the theatres cannot."
meaning, they have to make money on each showing, the same reason why
you never hear of many double features in standard theathres anymore.

|Second, the movie seemed to be very much designed around the casting that they  
|had available.  Donna had to be substituted -- no way around that, in my view,  
|anyway, since they were supposed to be best friends.  Robert Engels did say,  
|though, that he thought that it was rather "sleazy" on the parts of a lot of  
|the actors involved (and I think we're talking about Donna & Audrey, but I  
|think this applies to quite a few) that they refused to make a movie with the  
|man who essentially created their careers.  I don't think he was happy with the  
|fact that they did not have the entire cast at their disposal at all.    
|Cooper's part, for example, was so brief because they only had Kyle for about  
|two weeks -- he had some other commitments -- so, they really didn't have much  
|that they could do with him.  Apparently, the movie was shot entirely in a  
|year.. not bad.  Anyway, a lot of other things, like David Bowie's character,  
|seemed to be "escape hatches" for the next movie.. 

Makes good sense to me.

|Third, in regard to my last comment, Robert Engels said that there will be  
|another movie and that it will be post-series -- ASSUMING that FWWM does well  
|enough.  He said that it has already pulled a profit in Japan (i.e. they no  
|longer have to worry about breaking even), but he hedged a little bit on saying  
|anything for certain (understandably).  He acknowledged that there were a lot  
|of loose ends still (which got a bit of a laugh from the audience), and he  
|speculated a little bit about the next movie.  Again, it sounded like it was  
|very much grounded in what cast members were available -- He said that they HAD  
|to try to get one of the four people who knew what was going on: Cooper,  
|Windham Earle (or however you spell his name), Major Briggs, or .. somebody  
|else.  Sorry, folks.. I've forgotten.  Anyway, the point is this: it really  
|matters more who has time to make a movie than what David Lynch WANTS to do.  

Yeah!  Yeah!  <said with a my fist approaching my abdomen, and missing>

|He hoped that they would be able to do something with David Bowie's character,  
|although the way he mentioned it, it sounded like it would be kind of a last  
|resort if all of the people that they want fall through.  It sounds like Cooper  
|will NOT be doing the sequel (which has an estimated time of commencement in a  
|couple of years -- Robert & David will be doing some other project next, and  
|they don't plan to thing about the next TP movie until that project is out of  
|the way).  What Robert Engels said was that Kyle did not want to become another  
|"James T. Kirk" -- which he quickly pointed out DIDN'T happen to every actor,  
|and gave another example which was lost in the recesses of my memory soon  
|afterwards, but it was convincing enough anyway.

Kyle, I knew James Kirk...

|In fact, point the Fourth, is that when Robert Engels was talking about writing  
|with David Lynch, he said that they didn't have at the forefront of their  
|thoughts to keep everything in line with what was going on in the TV series.   
|He did admit that there was a very definite "thing going on underneath" that he  
|and Lynch knew about and planned around, but he made it sound like he wouldn't  
|be surprised in the least if there are discrepancies between the series and  
|movie, and even more importantly, he wouldn't care.  He said that he and David  
|Lynch know what the meaning of the white mask that the little boy was wearing  
|was, but that it wasn't all that important what THEIR interpretations were --  
|that people were supposed to draw those conclusions for themselves, and perhaps  
|differently.  When the question "What did the white mask mean?" was posed to  
|him a little while later, Robert Engels laughed and said, "I can't tell you  
|that."
|
|What else of interest was there?  I think I hit most of the parts that seemed  
|relevant.  It was interesting to hear him talk about it, and he seems pretty  
|pleased with the end result.  Me, I just can't wait for the laserdisk and the  
|sequel.. not that I think we'll ever get a very clear idea of what David Lynch  
|himself thinks is going on.  I got the impression that there wasn't going to be  
|a third movie, but that may be just because the second movie is all the farther  
|they want to think at the moment.
|
|If I think of something else that he mentioned that I forgot, I'll follow this  
|up -- perhaps another posting will jog my memory, and perhaps somebody else was  
|there that just hasn't posted..
|--
|schmotsignature.
|Paul Hagstrom
|(hagstrop@carleton.edu)

Well, there's always hope.  Maybe hope can conquer all...

I remain,
-- ---------------------------+- If we took the bones out, it wouldn't -- jsnyder@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | be crunchy, would it? - MPFC ---------------------------+ That is your reciept for your husband, and this is my reciept for your reciept. - Brazil

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In article <31AUG92.17461019@vax.clarku.edu> mcohen@vax.clarku.edu writes:
> >Wow, I've been buried in requests for the number of the place that sells movie 
> >scripts!  Two months ago I went to a Trek convention and this place was 
> >selling FWWM scripts (and much other movie stuff):
> >
> >PIX Poster Cellar
> >99 Mt. Auburn Street
> >Cambridge, MA  02138
> >(617) 864-7499
> >(800) 582-0085
> >
> >I can't verify the continued existance of this place - just tried calling them 
> >and got no answer.  [...]

I went over there on Friday afternoon.  They've moved.  In fact, the
day they moved was the day you called, Mitch, so that could explain it.

They are now at 1105 Massachusetts Avenue.  Rest of the address
is the same.  That's between Harvard Square and Central Square,
in the building with Games People Play and the Dolphin
Restaurant.  Or, for the Peaks-oriented, between Banks Street
and Lee Street. :-)

I got the last copy they had, but he said they'll be getting more.

It's quite clearly a bootlegged copy of a draft script.  It has
been through at least one Fax transmission and a number of Xerox
copyings.  Still quite readable, but it would take a lot of
editing after an OCR scan.  It's 126 pages long.

It is quite a bit different from the final script.  There are
small parts for Truman and Josie, for Ed and Nadine, for Ben and Jerry
and Sylvia, and Lucy.

The Jeffries part is no bigger than in the final film, so if the rumored
long version that Bob Engels talked about actually exists it must
have been trimmed before this script.

There's a scene in the Briggs home, with Betty Briggs having a
couple of lines and Major Briggs having one line "Robert, put out
the cigarette." In the beginning of that sequence, in the Briggs
basement, Bobby and Laura discover that the big cocaine buy they
killed the deputy for is actually baby laxative.

The ending is an immature version.  No angels.  No mention of the
childhood picnic/angel picture, either, unless I missed it.  So
all that motif was added later.

Anyhow, interesting as archaeology but not a final script by any means.

Bob Clements, K1BC, clements@bbn.com

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In article <1992Sep2.211218.22627@adobe.com> asente@adobe.com (A Usenet Pal) writes:
|Saw the movie for a second time last night.  Spoilers...

I'm up to #3 at this point...

|Who was the red-clothed figure jumping on and off the box during Jeffreys'
|narrative?  He was wearing whiteface and an artificial nose (like the owl
|mask) and had his hair colored black.

I was under the impression that it was Phillip Jeffries Lodge-counterpoint
BECAUSE that is the first character we see through the static in Jeffries'
diatribe.  However, the jumping figure is listed seperately in the credits
leading me to believe otherwise.

|What did the grandson have in his hand?  He was carrying it around, both
|during the scene where they gave Laura the picture and the scene where he
|jumped around after Leland fled the motel.

It looks like a slingshot, or maybe a small dowsing rod (hmmmm...looking
for water?).

|There's a long tracking shot at the end in the lodge, after the BOB/Mike/
|Leland/LMFAP scene but before the Cooper/Laura scene, where the camera tracks
|across the floor towards the curtains.  It appears that there is something
|behind the curtains right where the camera is headed.  I have no idea what it
|was.

I was looking carefully (per your suggestion), but was unable to make 
anything out.

|Observations:

<stuff deleted>

|Laura can tell that the OAM and the LMFAP are related.  After the car-yelling
|scene, Laura says something like, "Who was that?  Do I know him?"  It was
|clear that he looked familiar.  Then she flashed on the memory of her dream
|with the LMFAP offering the ring.

"No, honey, you don't know him.  Do you know him?"

I noticed that we hear the arm "whooping" as Mike's car first starts
approaching.  (You know, the "I am the arm, and I sound like this..."
whooping)  We also hear it when Desmond and Cooper get the vision of
the utility pole with the 6 on it, and in Laura's dream when it seems
to be coming from downstairs when she gets out of bed and goes to her
bedroom door, before she looks back at the picture.

|My guess is that the same thing happened to Jeffreys as happened to
|Desmond.  (What is it with FBI agents with first names for last names?
|Stanley, Desmond, Jeffreys...)
|
|Mrs. Chalfont lived in the trailer that had previously been occupied by a Mr.
|Chalfont.  As Mrs. Tremond, she lived in a house that was currently occupied
|by a Mrs. Tremond.  Interesting parallel.  I don't think we've really learned
|her name at all.

The first name in the credits reads like this:
Mrs. Chalfont (Tremond)

|There are lots of things I think I now understand, and lots of things I think
|I sort of understand, or at least have hypotheses for.  2 things I don't
|understand at all:
|
|- The ring.  Is it protection?  A mark?  Teresa had it for quite some time
|before she died (it was in all the pictures, and notice how pale her skin was
|where it had been).  Did she lose it before she died or after?  My guess is
|after since her skin was dirty elsewhere, but clean there.  What was it doing
|under the trailer?  How did the OAM get it?  Is there more than one ring?  It
|looked as if the OAM threw it to Laura in the train car.  Did wearing it at
|death help her?  Why did dream Cooper tell her not to take the ring?

Also, why did the mound of dirt after Theresa's death have the ring, while
after Laura's death the mound had her necklace?

|- Why did Laura keep saying the Bobby killed Mike?  It could just be drunken
|ramblings, but I can't help but think there was more to it.  But I have no
|idea what.

My hypothesis goes like this...Laura has some guilt associated with the
deputy's death, disqualifying her for the Federal Lodge Assistance Program.
So to speak.  Now that her habit has led to a death, Mike cannot help her.
Tie this in with the "All the angels have gone away" thread, and you have
a theory so full of holes that it's structure is now weaker than Laura's
sinus cavities.

|Questions, questions, questions...
|
|__   -paul asente
|\/     asente@adobe.com   ...decwrl!adobe!asente   moo-bear@cs.stanford.edu
|
|Bibles can ALWAYS be obtained FOR FREE from Hotels, Church organizations, the
|Gideon Society, thrift stores, and your parents' house.  Be advised that in
|certain instances theft is a moral obligation.

And if I have been able to provide and answers, I'm as surprised as you.

-- ---------------------------+- If we took the bones out, it wouldn't -- jsnyder@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | be crunchy, would it? - MPFC ---------------------------+ That is your reciept for your husband, and this is my reciept for your reciept. - Brazil

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-> I did NOT understand the reference to the blue rose type of
-> case. I don't remember the Laura Palmer case being referred
-> to with the blue rose by Cole to Cooper in the series, but
-> I might just not remember. Or, is it something purely in
-> the film? And WHAT DOES IT MEAN?????
It means Project Blue Book which was a project of the FBI and the Airforce 
to study the lodges.
-> Theresa Banks ring. There has been speculation that the ring,
-> symbolizing a circle, symbolizing a circular time line, or
->  that whoever wears the ring is the next to die or something
-> like that. But what about the symbols ON the ring? Weren't
->  those same symbols the same ones on the wall of the cave
-> in Twin Peaks? (At this time I forget what the symbols meant,
->  except that they inferred something about the white lodge,
-> or somthing else mystical. Or am I remembering the those
-> symbols  wrong? (Also, someone, maybe cooper, drew the same
-> symbol on a napkin in the double R diner at one time...)
The symobls are that same as those on owl cave. Owl cave was a map to the 
lodges, whitch leads me to believe that the ring takes you into the lodges. 
Laura escaped from Bob by entering the lodges. I think she entered the white 
lodge because of the angle.
-> What does the creamed corn symbolize? I remember Ms. Tremont
-> (sp?) not wanting it on her meals-on-wheels meal, and her
->  grandson making it 'appear' in his hands. And then in the
-> movie, the person (BOB, MIke?) eating it from the spoon.
-> (I also noticed, this effect seemed to be shown backwards..as
-> tho he person was filmed spitting out the creamed corn, and
-> it was shown in 'reverse'.
The creamed corn symolizes the pain and suffering.

 /-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| It's all a game...                                                        |
|                        Gregory C. Salmieri                                |
|                                                       ...It's all the same|
 \-------------------------------------------------------------------------/

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In article <1992Sep2.232654.827@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA> bross@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Brian J Ross) writes:
|
|
|Would someone give me the name of that requiem at the end of the film?
|Is it on the CD soundtrack?  I suspect that it isn't, as the film credits
|mentioned some requiem recorded by a symphony orchestra, and there is no
|mention of this on the CD.
|
|
|-- 
|Brian Ross                         "At the end of the day, all money gets you
|bross@sandcastle.cosc.brocku.ca     is a better place to watch television."
|                                    -- Dana Carvey


All I remember at this point is that the composer is Lugio Cherubini.
Don't remember what key.

Anyone else like the CHERUBini reference?

-- ---------------------------+- If we took the bones out, it wouldn't -- jsnyder@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | be crunchy, would it? - MPFC ---------------------------+ That is your reciept for your husband, and this is my reciept for your reciept. - Brazil

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> >the way).  What Robert Engels said was that Kyle did not want to become 
> >another  
> >"James T. Kirk" -- which he quickly pointed out DIDN'T happen to every actor,  
> >and gave another example which was lost in the recesses of my memory soon  
> >afterwards, but it was convincing enough anyway.

Don't know if it's the answer you're thinking of, but a good example would
be Sean Connery, who shot to fame as James Bond, and moved beyond that to
a wider range of films after those days were over.  Of course, Kyle may
be no Sean, either, but time will tell...

> >Paul Hagstrom

Gary W. Olson               "That's tonight's 'Unsolved Mysteries.' Next
SWEDE@DRYCAS.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU week we'll present wildly inconclusive evidence
58 days and counting down... on the Amelia Earhart disappearance, U.F.O.'s
                             and God. Be there!"-Evan Dorkin's "Milk & Cheese"

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In article <1992Sep2.184752.14566@uwm.edu> drbenway@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (The Overload) writes:
|
|     
|
|
|     Lynch sure has a penchant for large fish...


So does John Clese...
-- ---------------------------+- If we took the bones out, it wouldn't -- jsnyder@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | be crunchy, would it? - MPFC ---------------------------+ That is your reciept for your husband, and this is my reciept for your reciept. - Brazil

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jsnell@ocf.berkeley.edu (Jason Snell) writes:

> >In article <Iebumjy00WBME1vCAt@andrew.cmu.edu> Jeremy Matthew Toeman <jt3h+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>> >>This is actually a list of questions I have, but will spoil a few things..
> >
>> >>

>> >>7] How did both Chris Isaak and then Coop know which trailer to approach?
>> >>And what was the significance of the place being rented by the same guy
>> >>twice? (and what was that person's name?)

> >I think they followed a line from a telephone pole over to the trailer.
> >And I think the significance of the name was that the person who rented
> >the space (Mrs. Tremond and her grandson, the Creamed Corn Kid) just used
> >the old name. In other words, it was just a fake name, because it was really
> >Mrs. Tremond.

As I see it, there's a little more to it (though, I don't know _what_):

In the movie, _as well as in the series_, "Mrs.Tremond" and her "Grandson"
simple use the name of the previous (resp. current) owner of their 
living place.

"Mrs.Tremond" isn't her real name: In the series, we see, that she just
uses this name (or is assumed by Donna to have that name), while residing
in the Tremond's home.

So again, there's just a parallelity to the series, Mrs.T simply uses
the name of the previous owner.

Wiljo
-- wiljo@kiel.uucp voice:+49 431 95311 fax: +49 431 978126 "Alle woll'n was von mir haben / keiner will was von mir wissen" Die Lassie Singers --- "P.A.R.A.N.O.I.D"

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C491153@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu (John Schultz) writes:

> >Arr, matey!  Thar be spoilers here!

> >Jeremy Matthew Toeman <jt3h+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>> >>3] Did they forget to put in a scene of a letter being shoved under the
>> >>girls' fingernails?? I *KNOW* they both had them. (Either that, or my
>> >>memory is way-screwed)

> >I don't remember seeing this scene in the movie.  Wouldn't BOB/Leland
> >had to have put the letters under Ronette and Laura's fingers *before*
> >Mike gets there?  As Ronette tries to open the door, BOB beats her,
> >then throws her outside and leaves her there.  Did he come back for the
> >finger perhaps?


Nope. While Ronette is in hospital (in a coma) BOB visits her. The IV gets
tainted and the letter "B" (? I think ?) gets put under her fingernail.

So there's no letter under her fingernail the night, Laura gets murdered.


Wiljo
-- wiljo@kiel.uucp voice:+49 431 95311 fax: +49 431 978126 "Alle woll'n was von mir haben / keiner will was von mir wissen" Die Lassie Singers --- "P.A.R.A.N.O.I.D"

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SHILL@HARPERVM.BITNET  writes:
> > I am in dire need of an episode guide to Twin Peaks.  Somebody out there
> > has got one, please email or post, and a great big thanks.
> > -Steve


The most current issue of Film Threat with the FWWM cover has
an episode guide/summary though you have to put up with the
usual snide Film Threat remarks on all episodes.  
--
                               - Curt Tsui -
           curt@Virginia.EDU
   "Happiness might very well be a glandular condition." - David Cronenberg 

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v113np2v@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (George D Emmons) writes:

> >Some comments...

> >1) Loved the girl in the beginning. The fact she was there did
> >two things for me: One, I instantly respected Desmond for picking
> >up on all those clues JUST LIKE THAT! Two, and more importantly,
> >GORDON KNOWS ABOUT THE LODGE. Blue Rose, remember? Now, why
> >hasn't he said anything?

Well.. now that is my chance to ask a question, that shows my total
ignorance:

WHAT IS THE MEANING OF THE BLUE ROSE ???

So far I'm totally clueless. George, pls. enlighten me, I tried to 
figure it out, but I don't have the slightest idea ...

Wiljo
-- wiljo@kiel.uucp voice:+49 431 95311 fax: +49 431 978126 "Alle woll'n was von mir haben / keiner will was von mir wissen" Die Lassie Singers --- "P.A.R.A.N.O.I.D"

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I was re-watching some episodes lately and from what I can see, the Palmer
house isn't a different "set", actually, don't they use a real house? In the
TV series, we see the house from a different perspective.. mainly from the
living room into the dining room whereas in the movie we see it mainly from
the front door to the dining room or in the dining room itself making it *seem*
smaller.
 
 -=*George*=-



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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Everyone keeps referring to Leland's wound in FWWM, but is this really a
> >wound?  I don't recall him being injured at all in the train car.  I thought
> >that the blood that BOB removed from Leland (and turned into garmonbozia)
> >was Laura's blood.
> >
 Actually, yes, it *is* a wound but you are right, it wasn't shown in the
 movie (but that is not surprising as a lot of the death scene was cut.) In
 the series, Hawk finds a bloody rag down from the train cars and the blood
 does not match Laura's or Ronnette's but they said it was the blood of the
 murderer. It was a rare blood type, ab negative I think.
  
   This *really* peeves me.. I can't wait to see the uncut version on video to
   get the full story.. I mean they actually showed MORE of Laura's death
   scene on TV (Ronnette's flashback) then they did in the movie! Sickening.
    
    -=*George*=-



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'TWIN PEAKS' AWAKENS MOVIE LOVER IN US ALL

by Jeff Simon
   News Critic

   So as we watch as the creativity of American movies sinks quickly into
the Pacific and leaves behind a continent-sized oil slick, it's time to
put some movies and some necesary superlatives into the lifeboat for
survival - "Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me," for one.
   It's the most exciting American movie since the Cohen brothers "Barton
Fink" - a two-and-a-half hour long nightmare that is one of the most
stubbornly dreamlike commercial movies ever made in America.  It is, 
along with "Eraserhead," "The Elephant Man," and "Blue Velvet," (but NOT
"Wild at Heart," [guess he didn't like that one...]), confirmation that
David Lynch is exploring far-off oceans no one else in American commercial
movies has sailed before.  He may yet turn them into Ports of Call.
   You could have knocked me over with a Yule log.
   When Lynch extended his marvelously weird TV miniseries [sic] (which
seemed at the time like "Blue Velvet Meets Peyton Place") past its original
six parts into something that resembled a decidedly eccentric series, it was
more than a bit depressing to watch Lynch and company flog a dead horse every
week (though, come to think of it, if he'd had it flogged IN the series itself,
it would have been eminently more Lynchian).
   How then, could a movie "prequel" to the TV series be anything but
fileted chunks of the same beaten and dead horse clumped into a can
and fed to us as dog food?  Here's one theory propounded by the family's
young theatrical philosopher [his 20-year old daughter]: "It wouldn't
surprise me if David Lynch did the TV series just so he could get an audience
for THIS."
   Some of the actors are the same, some of the sets are the same, some of
Angelo Badalamente's [sic] brooding and beautiful music is the same.  And
yet the film is entirely different.  It isn't just the essential difference
in scale, either, although that figures enormously.
   TV series happen between commercials inside a piece of living room 
furniture that can be controlled at will by a 3-year-old.  Movies happen in
the dark on a huge screen from which one's only escape is to leave on
foot. 
   A TV show is like a household pet.  No matter how weirdly funny and
horrific it is, you think of it as if it is somehow miniaturized and cute -
hence the hailstorm of "Twin peaks" products and marketing engendered by 
the show's cult audience (in modern America what may begin as art always - 
ALWAYS - ends as packaging).  
   The TV show was created by Lynch and Mark Frost, a veteran of "Hill
Street Blues," versed in the fine art of TV beats (i.e., the placement of
emotional peaks within each twelve-minute segment).  People talked about 
the TV series as if it were a new kitten or Pomeranian that has joined
the house and entertained everyone with its antics.
   A movie, on the other hand, is bigger than life.  It swallows you up in
its dream logic, envelops you in voluptuous mystery and acquaints you 
with the weirdness of your own unconsciousness.
   Frost had nothing to do with TWIN PEAKS the movie.  It isn't chopped
up in edgy little TV pieces [suggesting, wrongly, that this is the reason
Frost wasn't involved: in fact, it is because Frost was busy filming and
editing his feature-directorial debut, STORYVILLE].  It is all fluid and
dreamlike, flowing sensually from one dream sequence to the next - 
bare-breasted orgies in fire-lit cabins, photos of empty rooms on walls in
which people suddenly appear and beckon Laura Palmer inside, crazed
drivers who pull up next to the Palmers at a traffic light and scream
incoherent imprecations at the top of their lungs.
   The violence, when it comes, is horrifically sudden.  All the dreamlike
watery flow of the plot suddenly cascades violently over a cataract into
a chasm.  And then you're yanked up again.

END PART ONE OF THE REVIEW.  

Scott Gorcey

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> >
> >As for the dancing man in the room above the convenience store, did I
> >just imagine it or was he dressed exactly the same as the MFAP?
> >
> >The dancing man had black, flat-topped (Eraserhead?) hair, a long
> >nose, and a face painted white -- but he wasn't wearing the mask.  It is
> >"Pierre Tremond" (aka the Boy Magician) who is most frequently seen with the
> >mask.  One aspect of the white mask which I'm surprised to see hasn't been
> >discussed, to my knowledge, is that it doesn't have any eyeholes; thus, one
> >is unable to see when wearing the mask.  If the grandson is the Magician, is
> >this what is meant by "In the darkness of future past/The Magician longs to
> >see"?
> >
> >Come to think of it, could there be a connection between this white
> >mask and the white mask (which I presume was Caroline's death mask) that
> >Windom Earle sent to Cooper?

 But wasn't Pierre Tremond in the scene above the convenience store also
 along with the dancing "masked" man? You are right though, the dancing
 masked man WAS dressed like the LMFAP, he danced - the LMFAP also dances
 and Pierre Tremond also wore a mask like the dancing man's face. Someone
 mentioned before how they though Pierre and Bob were connected, another
 indication of this was in one of the rooms when Laura goes through the
 door in the red room above the convenience store, Pierre appears there,
 snaps his fingers (from the series - "sometimes things happen just like
 that! <snap>") and a white light appears on the wall like the same white
 light that is shown when Bob appears (ie: when he says Where's Josie?").
 Could all of the seperate "entities" in the red room be "one and the same?"
  
   Also, from the TV series, what does Pierre say to Donna in french when
   she first meets him?
    
    -=*George*=- ^^^ what does he say in french and what does it mean in
     English?


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> >
> >It didn't have anything on Owls?  I'm amazed.  Owls are of tremndous
> >symbolic importance, especially in the NW.  As a quick rule of thumb,
> >Owls represent emotions and emotional events, and almost never in a
> >positive manner.  I'll look up some info I have at home regarding the
> >mythic interpretation of Owls in the NW Coast, but if I recall, owls
> >were feared.
> >
> >Mike Sterling
> >
> >PS:  If memory serves, according to one particular tribe (Kwaikuital?
> >Not Positive which) Owls were created from strong emotions of fear at
> >the time of death.  Hopefully I can find some of my old college textx
> >on the subject.  And I thought my Anthro classes would never be useful
> >:).
> >  
 Another example to back this up is that Cooper only starts to see the
 giant after he gets shot and near death.

 -=*George*=-



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   (Part One is under the subject heading: TWIN PEAKS AWAKENS THE MOVIE
    LOVER IN ALL OF US - Buffalo News FWWM Review)

   It's both frightening and beautiful.  That's at the end when Lynch's
movie means business and tess us of the night that led to the murder of
TV's favorite corporse, Laura Palmer.  
   That it is also hilariously funny at the beginning should come as no 
surprise - Lynch himself plays a deaf FBI man who shouts all the time; Kyle
MacLachlan, as agent Dale Cooper, keeps running back and forth trying to
watch his own image on a building's security monitor, as if he could 
somehow be in two places at once.  And then, in one frozen, glorious 
Margitte moment, he DOES (Magritte-like imagery abounds in "Twin Peaks:
Fire Walk With Me.")
   The very opening of the movie announces "This isn't TV - not by a long
shot."  The flaky blue field that you see behind the credits turns out to
be a TV screen on which we're seeing "snow."  The image ends with a lance
crashing through the TV and a cut to shrieking, piercing, murderous
darkness.
   That is the movie in digest form.
   At 2 and a half hours, it is too long.  No argument therre.  But then, its
length contributes to its strange, dreamlike languor.  And yet, for all
of its dreaminess, there is inside "Twin Peaks" the movie a horror story that
may have an emotional resonance far beyond anything Lynch has done since
"The Elephant Man."
   Underneath all the surreal hacking around, this is the story of a young
teenage girl who is endlessly falling into a pit of drugs, incest and
degradation.  Incredibly, the tale is moving.  It isn't just drenched in
that knowing, post-modern irony that turns everything into a joke: it is
wild and sexy and finally, very sad.
   And it establishes Sheryl Lee as a superb young actress.  On the TV
show, she was wrapped up in a plastic tarp and stuffed into the odd flashback.
She may be a good decade beyond the age she's playing, but in the movie she
gives a full performance, an erotic, decadent, traumatized, terror-stricken
performance.  She's another actress entirely from what we saw on TV.
   What Lynch has done in "Twin Peaks," the movie, is to wrench father-
daughter incest and child murder out of the hands of Oprah and the TV
movie of the week and put it back into the incoherent horrors of the
collective unconscious where it belongs.
   "Twin Peaks: Fire Walk with Me" is so many lightyears beyond what is
usually acceptable as a movie in the local malls that it might as well
come from an alternative universe.  It's a movie in which a fat epicene
drug dealer tells a stoned-out Laura Palmer, "I am the Great Went," and
she answers, "I am the Muffin."  It's a movie in which its authors made
up a word ("garabazonia" - I think [sic - garmonbozia]) to mean "your pain
and sorrow."  It's a tragicomic pop dream universe with its own languages
that is bounded by pain and sorrow on all sides.
   It has true junk poetry.
   It couldn't possibly bear less resemblance to the corrupt film-cult
horseplay of Brian DePalma's "Raising Cain" and the rote slasher 
denouments of the summer's thrillers.
   Now that the film culture era ushered in by Arthur Penn's "Bonnie and
Clyde" has turned into a squabbling, trivial and declining babble of tedious
but film-savvy filmmakers and critics, the great figures in the ascending
generation of American movies seem to be the ones who have avoided the
corruptions of film culture all together - Lynch, and Tim Burton (who
both come from art school) and Ron Shelton (who came from the farm system
of the Baltimore Orioles).
   They create a film and narrative film language of their own, not one 
that's been patched together out of overly familiar cinematic dialects.
   And of those members of the film culture generations who HAVE emerged
from film school, the powerful ones have reasons for being powerful that
transcend it [their roots in traditional film] - Oliver Stone has Vietnam
and Spike Lee is black, two tragically good reasons in America for not
letting film savvy overwhelm what Unamuno called "the tragic sense of life."
   "Twin Peaks: Fire Walk with Me" is a film that asks for trouble in many
many ways - its length, its origins in a TV phenomenon, its radical 
dislocation from almost everything else that you can see in movie theaters.
   And trouble it got - right from the beginning, when its distributors
delayed screenings until the very last minute because it was too strange.
   And yet it seems to me one of the films of the year, and one of those rare
movies that makes some people remember what they loved about the movies in
the first place. II

[Posted by Scott Gorcey]       

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In article <1992Sep3.192852.14481@Princeton.EDU> oberst@hitam.Princeton.EDU (Daniel J. Oberst) writes:
> >In article <1992Aug29.192850.17273@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> sborders@nyx.cs.du.edu  
> >(Scott Borders) writes:
>> >> 
> >.> In the Twin Peaks saga, we have now seen the beginning (FWWM) and
>> >> the middle (the TV series).  Will we see an end? 
> >We still haven't seen the beginning!!....what about Agent Cooper's early days  
> >at Germanton Friends? And the whole thing between him and Earle and Caroline.  
> >No, I think we need a prequel to FWWM!!

 I don't think it is *needed* but it would be nice to see what went on with
 Wyndom Earle and Coop, Bob when he was alive (Mike shoots him), and when
 Bob first enters Leland.
  
   An ending is definately needed..lets hope Lynch continues with Peaks.
    
    -=*George*=-


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In article <3SEP92.14581627@wums.wustl.edu> furesz_t@wums.wustl.edu writes:
> >Although I enjoyed the movie and want to see another made I think TP should
> >return to the small screen.  I think the best way would be to have a
> >yearly miniseries (something the length of the first season).  That way
> >each spring they could air a new 7-9 hours (one hour a week) works
> >well.  I like the old each episode is a day in TP.  That got lost in
> >FWWM.  Lynch could stay heavily involved (more so than doing a full
> >22 episodes a year) and we would not have to wait a year or 2 till
> >we get another movie.  What do people think?
> >
> >Todd

 I would love for Twin Peaks to come back on TV as a mini-series. As a
 matter of fact, I think that would be the only way it would work on TV
 now. Good thing is, ABC IS making time slots soon for mini series
 throughout its schedule and they are getting big names to make mini
 series for them. They said they decided to do this so what happened to
 Twin Peaks wouldn't happen again (big name director's like Lynch getting
 involved in a work and them leaving because of its length on TV to do
 something else thus the series failing afterwards).
 
 -=*George*=-

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Doppleganger:


Now, wait a minute:

  Does this remind anyone of that business in The Waiting Room during
  the last episode, or is it just me?

  Let's compare:

  Final Episode: Coop's going from room to (nearly identical) room
  in The Waiting Room, down that corridor... and this becomes so
  confusing (not just to him) that he actually meets himself coming
  and going: the doppleganger.

  FWWM: Coop tells Gordon he's had a dream [surprise!].  Next: we see
  Coop walking from the corridor to the security monitor room, trying
  to catch an image of himself in two places at once (why, we don't
  know, but it of course has something to do with this dream he's had).

   Then: HE DOES IT.  Coop looks at Coop in the monitor.  Now, besides
   this being typical-Lynch - like Senor Droolcup always being the
   harbinger of The Giant -- something strange (Coop's trick) followed
   but something truly bizzare (in this case, Agent Jeffreys) --

   I think it's a keen foreshadowing of the final episode - and a 
   connection to Annie showing up in Laura's bed talking about "the
   good Dale is in the Lodge..."  

   Considering how everyone and everything in Twin Peaks has its
   double - whether it's a physical double (like Laura/Maddy, Leland/
   BOB) or a personality double (Donna first and second season)... this
   means... what?  Comments?  

   Has Coop been expecting what happened in the final episode... all
   along?  And because of this, does he think he knows how to get
   out of it?  

   Where does the Blue Rose (Blue book) fit in?

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In article <185u3nINNp44@agate.berkeley.edu> sally@anableps.berkeley.edu (S. A. Wilson) writes:
> >
> >After reading the Coop autobiography I also wondered if the murder
> >of Laura also was a lure to get Coop to TP for the conjunction of
> >Neptune and Saturn, which marked some occurence involving the two
> >Lodges...
> >
> >Sally--
> >
 I have been thinking about this, when Coop goes to Twin Peaks he said
 he has been having these dreams for 3 years (dealing with knowing
 things when the body and mind are in a certain state). Coop is
 fascinated with Tibet and uses a lot of Tibetan practices (throwing
 rock at bottle on stump for example). Coop also mentions about the
 Dhali Llama (SP!) being "bannished" from Tibet to live in India in
 exile until the day he can return and reclaim Tibet or something like
 that.. maybe Coop has been possessed by the Dhali Llama and Bob et al
 found him as a threat and wanted to detroy him or they need him for
 something.
 
  This could also explain what Phillip Jeffries says in the movie..
  "Do you know who this man there (really) is?" - could mean that he really
  is now Bob (and that scene was telling the future after Bob posseses
  Cooper like Annie's scene in the movie where she appears in Laura's
  dream was telling of the events that would happen in the hospital - the
  scenes that were cut). OR he could mean that Coop is really the Dhali
  Llama.
   
   -=*George*=-
   

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In article <1992Sep3.174346.7309@ac.dal.ca> 01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:
> >In article <15263@umd5.umd.edu>, jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog here...) writes:
>> >> In article <37591@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> ww10aac@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Eddie the 'ead) writes:
>>> >>>Many probably missed what the OAM said in the car to Leland and Laura
>>> >>>when Leland was revving the engine, honking the horn and screaming:
>> >> 
>>> >>>The thread will be torn!
>> >> 
>> >> "And I know about the stitches with the red thread." -- the OAM in the
>> >> Euroversion.  Connections, anyone?...  :-)
>> >> 
> >
> >And the Blue Rose was sewn to Lil's dress with... red thread. Do you think
> >that's part of Cole' code that Chet and Sam (LOVE those names) missed?
> >Mike

Ok, so assuming that the Blue Rose refers to Project Blue Book (listening
to the stars but eventually the woods in Twin Peaks) and/or the Lodges and
the red thread that is connecting it still means drugs then yes, there might
be a link. Laura was using drugs.. Cocain (maybe to keep Bob away? From
taking her over?) Philip Gerard was using drugs to keep Mike away ("Without
chemicals, he points!" - thus turning Philip Gerard into Mike and thus Mike
searching for Bob). Bob also uses drugs - the creamed corn/pain and sorrow.
He is addicted to it. Now in the movie when the OAM tells Leland the thread
will be broken, assuming the thread still means drugs then the OAM is out
to stop Bob from consuming the pain and sorrow (creamed corn) thus why he
bottled it in the container in the red room above the convenience store which
someone stole (Leland or Laura stole it?) and opened. In the European pilot
version the OAM man says to Cooper that he was waiting for Bob to show again
so there was a period when Bob wasn't killing anyone (thus the one year
between murders) and he only started again because the container was opened.
Maybe Bob is like Freddy Krueger.. he feeds off your fears.. the more people
that know about him, and the more they fear him/go through pain because of
him, the longer Bob will stay around.. if no one fears him/goes through
pain because of him, he will die from "withdrawl symptoms". Like the
one liner from Pet Semetary II in the commercials.. "No pain, no gain!"

 So you think I am onto something here?

  -=*George*=-

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Who is Scott Frost, who is listed as the author of Cooper's autobiog?
Did he have anything to do with the show?
-- Robert Chao Oakland, California

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In article <1992Sep3.180230.7312@ac.dal.ca> 01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:
> >In article <1992Sep2.084258.5488@cs.mun.ca>, georgen@pooky.cs.mun.ca (George Noel) writes:
>> >> In article <H11FqB2w165w@zitt> zitt!joe@dogface.austin.tx.us (Joe Zitt) writes:
>>> >>>01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:
>>> >>>
>> >> 
>> >>  Twin Peaks is supposed to be really close to the Canadian border. Remember
>> >>  that One Eyed Jacks is also in Canada (from what I understood). I don't
>> >>  know about anyone else but, I am from Canada and I didn't particularly like
>> >>  the impression they were trying to paint on Canadian bars, or Canada itself.
>> >>  I mean when Laura enters "The Bar" in Canada to meet Jacques and Ronnette all
>> >>  you see is sex, drugs and rock and roll. I mean girls dirty dancing on the
>> >>  floor like they were doing, stripping down, guys licking the breasts of
>> >>  women and women being "eaten out" (Laura..under the table) and then have
>> >>  Jacques (or someone) saying "Welcome to Canada" didn't seem too pleasing. I
>> >>  for one would like to know of any bars in Canada which are like *that*. :-)
>> >> 
> >
> >
> >Well, I'm Canadian too, and I thought it was a riot. I mean, when you think of 
> >it, Canada has an international reputation a lot like TP. Lots of scenery,
> >lots of trees, the Rockies, quite rural, and the people are all nice, 
> >friendly, maybe a little on the dull side. Mind, I'm not saying Canada is *like*
> >that, but I think that's what a lot of overseas people believe, or so I suspect.
> >
> >Therefore, I think it makes sence that Canada, like TP, is idyllic and quiet
> >on the surface, but is hiding lots of dirty little secrets. I wonder if Lynch
> >has ever been to Canada.
> >
> >Just a thought.
> >Mike

 Actually, this is true.. now that I think of it Twin Peaks DOES resemble
 Canada like you said. As a sidenote, on a comedy show I was watching there
 was a sketch where a comedian was saying that Canada would be the perfect
 country to invade someone else. You would have the president from the other
 country calling the UN and telling them that Canada is invading us and the
 UN would say Canada? They wouldn't do anything like that... :-)
  
  -=*George*=-

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-=*George*=-

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In article <118697@muvms3.bitnet> swk004@muvms3.bitnet (CONNIE LEINEN, SWK004@MARSHALL, HUNTINGTON, WV) writes:
> >I saw the movie Saturday.  Last night, I decided to watch the first 
> >2-hour episode (yet again).
> >
> >Curious, but in the opening shot of Josie.  They show what appears
> >to be a stylized, ceramic black dog.  Coincidence?  I think not.
> >
> >Connie

 There are numerous references to dogs in Twin Peaks.. in the movie when
 the OAM is shouting at Leland in his car they quickly cut away and show
 a black dog barking.

 When Mike and Bobby (students) are in jail they bark like dogs to James
 (after they threaten to kill him - "When you least expect it")
  
  Sarah described Bob from her vision as "looking like an animal" - dog?
   
   The LMFAP in Cooper's first dream was "shaking like an animal" - so was
   Josie who was "trembling with fear".
    When Jacques was smothered, Jacoby described him as sounding like a
    dog barking.
     
      Thats all I can think of for now. This is common with black dogs..
      in the movie "The Omen" a black dog was always following Damien
      Thorne around.. the black dog being the devil. Maybe Bob is Mike's
      son?

      -=*George*=-

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Could someone repost the Twin Peaks Allusions from about 9 months ago.
I've dusted off the tape of the first two seasons, and would like to have this
handy as I watch them.

Thanx

-- Jim Setzer

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 The script that was posted seems different then the original one I saw,
 I thought the one I saw had actual word forword I thought.
> >
> >
> >WHOA.  This is new.  Wonder if this ties in with Leland's near-attack on
> >Donna in 2009?
> >
>> >>Gerard and TMFAP speak together "Bob, you're
>> >>not going home without me.  I want all my garmonbozia (corn)."
> >
> >"You're not going home without me"???  Hmm...  theories, anyone?
> >
>> >>Cooper: Where am I? And how can I leave?
>> >>MFAP: You are here and there is no place to go...But home!
> >
> >"There's no place like home"?  What is this, Wild at Heart???  :-)

This is again supporting my idea that the Dhali Llama is possesing Coop and

> >Has anyone noticed some MAJOR things left out of the script?
> >
> >No monkeys.  AND NO ANGELS.
> >
> >No ascent to heaven scene either.  Maybe the producers felt the movie was
> >too bleak as it stood, and added on a "happy" ending later?...
> >
> >Also -- did the script specify that the Red Room where Laura and Coop was
> >is the Black Lodge?...
> >
> >Somehow, it figures.  After reading the script, we only have more questions.
> >
 You have to remember that was only the posters summary of the script, it
 wasn't, obviously, the entire script.

 -=*George*=-

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In article <15305@umd5.umd.edu> jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog here...) writes:
|In article <1992Sep3.165652.1595@scubed.com> stevens@scubed.com (Jeff Stevens) writes:
|Spoiler sightings...

|
|A thousand thanks to the person who posted the script summary of FWWM.
|(Ten thousand thanks to someone who would post the complete uncut script,
|but we can't have everything...)

Hopefully some kind soul will either send a copy to someone (like me) who
will scan it in, or do so themselves...

<much deleted>

|>Leland has flashback to when he was involved with Teresa with
|>Flesh World Magazine.  Teresa figures out that Leland is Laura's father
|>(probably why he killed her).  Laura has flashback and begins to put the
|>pieces together.  Leland has flashback to when he killed Teresa Banks.
|
|So this was explicit in the script, and only implied on screen?
|

It was explicit on screen.  During LeBOBlands flashback, the first
image we see of Theresa is a photo of her in Fleshworld.

|>"Last night": Laura says she hates asparagus at dinner.
|>She goes to see Bobby.  Laura goes home and snorts a line or three.  James
|>calls at 9:30.
|
|So all this happened as it was told in the pilot.  Even the asparagus.
|Personally I thought the "Goodnight, sweetheart" line they used was much
|more heartbreaking -- totally missed by non-fans, but for those like me
|who had just rewatched the pilot it sends chills up your spine.

Agreed.  It also makes the scenes with Sarah Palmer in the pilot even
more heart-wrenching afterward.

<more deletions>

|>Log Lady is off in woods listening.  "She hears]
|>distant screams.  The camera moves down her leg to reveal her tattoo, beet
|>red and burning."
|
|Why oh why did they cut this?

Because we also would have had to have seen Laura's tattoo beet red and
burning.  Am I the only one who saw it?  It hasn't been mentioned yet.
I saw it my second viewing, in the scene where BOB is raping Laura.  If
you look closely, while he is lifting her dress/nightgown above her knee,
on her right knee is a tattoo that looks like a circle and its radius.
Or am I just being obtuse?  Did anyone else see it? (It is also visible
later when on her last night, she is talking with James on the phone - 
sometimes into the wrong end - and putting on her stockings that match
her One-Eyed-Jacks outfit.

|Somehow, it figures.  After reading the script, we only have more questions.

And would we have it any other way?  It is nice, having my favorite newsgroup
back in full swing again!  C'mon, everyone!  Join in the fun!  We can top
-- ---------------------------+- If we took the bones out, it wouldn't -- jsnyder@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | be crunchy, would it? - MPFC ---------------------------+ That is your reciept for your husband, and this is my reciept for your reciept. - Brazil

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In article <lafir5INNmo4@news.bbn.com> koralesb@carleton.edu writes:
|Hi there,
|  Two, does anyone know where  
|to get copies of the TV series on video?  Is there an address that I could  
|order them from?  I have most of the first season on tape and I would like to
|finish that and get the second too.  That reminds me, is the second season on
|tape?  Well that was more than two questions, sorry.
|
|
|barron koralesky
|
|koralesb@carleton.edu


I called Lynch/Frost productions this past week (actually, they answered with
some other company name, but the guy knew what he was talking about) and
asked when the second season would be released on tape.  Apparently, the 
second season should be out by the end of this month.  I left a message 
at some lady's voice mail at Worldvision (in regard to laserdisk availability)
but have not recieved any response yet.

-- ---------------------------+- If we took the bones out, it wouldn't -- jsnyder@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | be crunchy, would it? - MPFC ---------------------------+ That is your reciept for your husband, and this is my reciept for your reciept. - Brazil

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> >
> >
> >
> >++++++
> >Well, that is all I can do right now.  I do have to pay this long distance
> >bill for dialing up, and I do have to work tomorrow.  Boy, summer jobs are
> >hell...
> >
> >I will continue tomorrow, and hopefully this has some brains churning with the
> >impications of what was said.  I hope you could decipher this all, my typing
> >that is, and I will paginate this better nexttime....
> >
> >stay tuned...
> >

 This stuff is exellent and definately does shed new light on what is going
 on in the movie.. man I want to see the entire version.. the thing is, if
 there is a sequel, and all these scenes that were cut are in the 3:40
 version being released to laserdisc and video, it will restrict even
 further the people who will understand the sequel - being the people who
 will only view the 3:40 version.. obviously if you go by the movie version
 alone, you will not understand a lot of what happens if they do a sequel.
  
  Ok, the scenes you just described explaine "Fire, walk with me" - the
  scene in the movie where they all go into another room from the red room
  and where Piere snaps his fingers and a light/fire appears on the wall,
  thus the light we see in the TV series when Bob shows - and now also
  Jeffries appearing back in South America with a scorched wall behind him
  means that that red room is a portal through time - it can bring you to
  the waiting room ("find the middle place" - middle world where all can
  exist) and it can also send you through time -back/forward ("future past")
   
   Ok, something else.. the ring.. it has the same owl on it as in Owl Cave
   which supposedly opened the door to the black lodge thus meaning the
   ring also opens the door to the lodge, or the waiting room. Remember,
   the LMFAP had the ring above the convenience store when they all supposedly
   go through the fire into the waiting room.

   Theresa Banks also had the ring, thus maybe could enter the lodge where
   Bob wouldn't be able to posses her, Laura had the ring she entered the
   lodge thus Bob couldn't posses her, the OAM had the ring, we see him in
   the lodge ONLY in the movie , Annie, in the cut scene had the ring, she
   was in the lodge..the nurse takes it.

    If these scenes stay in the uncut version, how much do you want to make
    a bet that we will see Cooper (if he returns to do the sequel) appearing
    like Jeffries to warn Truman about what is going on and about the ring.
    Truman will hunt down the nurse, find the ring, and with the help of others
    like Major Briggs, The Log Lady, the Bookhouse Boys, will enter the fire
    in the convenience store to confront the evil (Bob et al) once and for all,
    freeing Cooper and *possibly* seeing/freeing Laura and Theresa Banks,
    Agent Desmon and maybe even Jeffries (unless he was still in South
    America).
     
     Seattle was mentioned and Judy (possibly another victim? Jeffries 
     girlfriend?).. Jeffries found something there.. the ring? Where else
     have we heard about Seattle? Pete to Truman: "This isn't uncommon for
     Josie, she takes off every few months to Seattle, to go shopping - she
     comes back with bags full of new clothes, I personally think she is
     seeing someone there" - not word for word quote but that is the basic
     jist.. ok, hypothetical situation here.. maybe Josie IS "Judy" and is
     seeing Jeffries there but changed her name, maybe she was using
     Jeffries for some reason like she was sort of "using" Truman. Jeffries
     was probably buying her a lot of stuff. I will re-read that post to
     make sure it was Judy in Seattle and not Stanley..:-) This sounds too
     good to be true. :-) I will continue anyways.. if Josie knew of/had
     possesion of the ring then she is linked with the lodge people and thus
     why Bob imprisoned her in the wood handle so she could be used at at 
     later date (once they found out Josie shot Cooper Bob realized she
     couldn't be used as a "spie" anymore so he took her away until later).
     If this is the case, then the Log Lady's husband must have also had
     connections with the lodge people (if that was indeed him in the red
     room and he is listed in the credits as a woodsman) and he was being used
     as a spie and the same thing happened.. he got found out/rendered
     useless, imprisoned in a tree for later use. The tree happend to get
     cut down and a piece of it happened to be given to the Log Lady who 
     uses it to communicate with her husband and her husband has turned
     good like Mike and is trying to stop Bob.
      
      Am I unto something or what? :-)
       
       -=*George*=-

  

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Yes, since I posted about the tatoo I had remember that Phillip Gerard said
it was "Fire, walk with me" on it. In the TV series, Phillip Gerard (not
in Cooper's dream) says the tatoo said "Mom" not "Bob" - thus why he 
started crying. He could be seen as lying OR because of the drugs he was
using to keep "Mike" from showing he didn't know any better thus would
give a different story then Mike.

 As for Bob Lydecker, we never actually see him but maybe he too was being
 used as a host for one of the lodge family. Did anyone notice that there
 was a *Llama* in Bob Lydecker's Veterinary.. a Llama in Twin Peaks? Aren't
 they from places like Tibet/Peru? etc.? The Llama also looks Cooper in
 the face as the owner takes it out.
  
  -=*George*=-



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In article <Bu38nu.211@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> ceblair@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Charles Blair) writes:
> >ww10aac@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Eddie the 'ead) writes:
> >
>> >>   a.  The useless Leo and Shelley scene.
> >
> >    I can't imagine Leo scrubbing floors for any reason.

 I disagree, that scene wasn't useless.. to the Laura Palmer story it was,
 BUT it answers a question from the TV series.. in the TV series Shelly
 says to Bobby when he tells her about Leo and Jacques and the drugs and says
 "I *KNEW* he was upto something" - in the movie Shelly overhears Leo on the
 phone with Bobby during that floor scrubbing scene and hears Leo ask about
 the $5000 and mouths to herself "$5000?".
  
  Also, remember in the pilot version when Josie tells Pete to "pull the
  plug" at the mill.. Pete is sitting down, saying to himself..
   "2X4s, 4X8s.." repeatedly (I found that scene funny alone) apparently in
   the movie there is a scene cut where Josie and Pete make reference to a
   choice between 2X4s and 4X8s which was supposed to be funny. This would
   explain why Pete was saying that in that scene.
> >
> >   Also, if Mr Gerard knew Leland was BoB, why the false alarm about
> >Ben Horne in the TV version?

 I don't think it was because of Ben Horne, it was because Leland was
 a little ways outside the room, in a hall and after Phillip Gerard
 falls to the floor, they shown Leland smiling evily.
> >
> >



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> >|
> >|
> >|>>   It seemed as if Cooper kept going back and forth between the area
> >|>>the camera was surveying and the TV monitor for no good reason right
> >|>>before Bowie showed up.  Did I miss something?
> >|
> >|>i think he sensed time slowing down, as someone else mentioned.  so much
> >|>that he went to the display room first, saw nothing.  went to the
> >|>display room a second time, saw his arm in the door.  and then went
> >|>to the display room a third time, and saw himself stuck there in
> >|>time as jeffries walked by, unhindered by time.  just a guess?
> >
> >The second time I went to the movie, I watched *VERY* closely for this,
> >and saw no arm in the door.  Besides, even if we did see an arm, wouldn't
> >we be tying that scene in with the one armed man?

 Nope it is definately there.. everytime Coop looks at the monitor time
 is getting slower and slower until Jeffries arrives and it is so slow Coop
 can still see himself standing by the camera with Jeffries walking behind
 him. The first 3 times we seen nothing in the hallway when Coop looks at
 the monitor, Coop at monitor, you can see his hand for a second going in
 the door, Coop at monitor, you can see Cooper walking in the door and then
 finally Coop still at the camera.
> >
> >|He already had a dream about this.  That's why he was so concerned when
> >|he went up to Lynches character and said "It's 10:02 already".  He
> >|was expecting this to happen.
> >
> >ObDirectQuoteFromFilm:  "Gordon, it's 10:10 February 16th."
> >
> >|I think..
> >|



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> >they leave the diner to take a look at Theresa Banks body.  They peel
> >back her fingernail to find a T and they notice that her ring is missing.
> >Next they visit the trailer park of Carl Rodd. They go into Theresa Banks
> >trailer to talk.  An odd, dark looking woman with an ice pack comes out
>from a back room in the trailer.  Chet says: do you know who killed Theresa

Old woman with an icepack over her eye? While it has been suggested she
 is Mr.s Tremond's "familiar" would she possibly have any relation to
 Nadine?

> >(Remember Harry saying in episode 1 'Same thing as happened last year in

 He was referring to what happened in a barn the previous year where they
 found someone dead or injured (in Twin Peaks) and he was referring to
 Andy crying again.


> >We see the face of the monkey again.

Could the monkey behind the mask represent that the spirits hide in hosts
 and they can take more then one form (host) thus why Pierre is seen behind
 the mask, he puts it back on and when he takes it off again it is the
 monkey.

> >Laura focuses on the wires and electricity as she is walking down the
> >street (I think this is how Phillip Jeffries travels.)

Bob: "Electricty!" - yes, I agree here.. not only Jeffries but all that
 go through the portal.

> >By the way, there were 5 rings all together....
> >

Audrey's ring - the one she shows to Coop

 Ring of innocence?
> >        Theresa - The green ring

   Ring of travel?
> >        Windome Earl - The twisted snake ring.

Ring of deceit/evil?>
Cooper - The gold circle ring.

 Represents the garmonbozia - circle of Appetite... fulfilment
> >        Donna - The diamond ring James gave her.
> >
 Represents love?

-=*George*=-

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Speculation about the ring...

The ring had been Teresa's for quite some time, since it was in all the
pictures.  After her death, it was found by Desmond on a pile of dirt.

Laura's necklace had been hers for quite some time also.  After her death
it was found by the police on a pile of dirt.

Perhaps the ritual aspects of Bob's killing someone involves taking one
of the person's possessions and making sort of an offering of it.

(Enter wild speculation mode)

Teresa's ring was found under Mrs. Chalfont's trailer.  Perhaps she "booby
trapped" it to bring its finder into the lodge.  Once it and its finder
entered the lodge, it could be taken by Mike.  Nobody bothered doing this
with Laura's necklace because it, unlike the ring, was not valuable to the
lodge members.

__   -paul asente
\/     asente@adobe.com   ...decwrl!adobe!asente   moo-bear@cs.stanford.edu

Feminism:  a socialist, anti-family political movement
           that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their
           children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and
           become lesbians.-Pat Robertson

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Uhhh, sorry to be ignorant, but I've only managed to catch bits and
pieces of TP on TV. I liked it very much but don't have the whole
compilation and am completely lost. Before FWWM arrives, could a kind
soul post me a synopsis of what was happening in TP, or maybe point
me to a source?

Thanks in advance.

kelvyn
(ps I don't mind spoilers at all)

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Hmm. Here's a really far-fetched connection:

"formica table" == "For Mike, a table"

I distincly remember that the syllables were stressed like this (
with 1 being the greatest stress):


 4 13 24
formicatable

That is, with the primary empasis on "mic" or "Mike". I realize this
sort of conflicts with the subtitle, but perhaps thats the idea. Note
also that the distances between 1-2, 2-3, and 3-4 may not all be equal.
--
John Hawkinson
jhawk@panix.com

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There's probably a simple reason for this that I'm forgetting, but if MIKE
was capable of warning Laura about Leland in the movie, why did he need to
spend all that time in the series searching for BOB and interrogating Ben 
Horne? I suppose (legally speaking)he couldn't have Leland arrested 
without evidence.

-|   "A guy with a hard-on is not
Bart "Webb" Tilney|    my idea of art."
Email: htilney@vax.clarku.edu|    - John Mellencamp

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In article <1992Sep2.065249.4832@cs.mun.ca> georgen@pooky.cs.mun.ca (George Noel) writes:
>> >>
>> >>What is the symbolism of the White Horse that Mrs. Palmer sees in her visions?
> >
> > The only other time we see Sarah seeing the white horse was when Maddy
> > was killed and Leland gave her the same type of drink (milk..warm milk?). If
> > you noticed, it left a residue in the glass.. Leland drugged Sarah so she
> > wouldn't know that he left the house (to kill Laura). He drugged Sarah in
> > the series so she wouldn't know he killed Maddy. The White Horse represents
> > the drug that he gave her I guess (a vision because of the drug).

I don't know where the expression "Death rides a white horse" comes from but it'something that I've heard for many years.  "Death comes on a white horse"????
maybe????  Is it from Revelations?  

It would be an extreme stretch to suggest that the white horse has to do with
the white liquid in Sarah's glass.

I may be totally wrong but I'm a.....................

ferenc


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> >In Eraserhead, it was clear that Lynch's Ultimate Fantasy was not the
> >kind of perversions he shows us today, but in seeing a true Goodness
> >lead to Happiness.  So, why Wild At Heart and FWWM?  There is no 
> >beauty in these films, while there was plenty of beauty in Twin Peaks.
> > 
> >So, flame me, call me a nut, but respond.  Am I even close?
> > 
> >------------------------------------------------------
> >David Eschatfische -- 2609COWEND@VMS.CSD.MU.EDU



I would definitely have to disagree with what you said about Wild at Heart and
Fire Walk With Me lacking any beauty.  I think that Lynch's purpose behind both
these movies is to shock the audience with glimpses of the evil in the world,
Big Tuna in WAH, and the Black Lodge in FWWM, and then show how good can
prevail in spite of these evils.  In both of these movies, angels appear at the
end and reveal love and goodness to the main characters.  I think the message
here is that if someone loves you, you stand a chance to escape the evils and
find happiness.  This is similar to the plot of Blue Velvet.

P.S.: Does anyone know the title of the requiem at the end of FWWM?

Internet address: Floyd@ufcc.ufl.edu
Bitnet address  : Floyd@ufcc
All opinions expressed are my own or mine.

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> >If anyone wants the script, I have the address around someplace...think it was 
> >$20... just ask

I would love to get a copy of the Script!  Please post or e-mail the address to 

Floyd@ufcc.ufl.edu
or for Bitnet
Floyd@ufcc

Thanks in advance.

Internet address: Floyd@ufcc.ufl.edu
Bitnet address  : Floyd@ufcc
All opinions expressed are my own or mine.

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> >All I wanted to know was, "How did Audrey Horne die?"


She was blown to bits in the bank vault explosion in the last television
episode.

You're welcome.

Internet address: Floyd@ufcc.ufl.edu
Bitnet address  : Floyd@ufcc
All opinions expressed are my own or mine.

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Does anyone remember way back in the premire episode when Cooper bags the letter from Laura's fingernail and tells Diane to give it to Albert, not Sam, because Albert is more on the ball.  Or something along those lines.  Is Sutherland's character this same Sam?  I would have to say yes.  Or perhaps I'm imagining the whole thing.
Internet address: Floyd@ufcc.ufl.edu
Bitnet address  : Floyd@ufcc
All opinions expressed are my own or mine.

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In article <qsVNqB7w165w@flex.com>, dcha@flex.com (Doug Cha) writes:
|>         Has anyone written a Twin Peaks episode guide?  I still don't 
|> know how many episodes of Twin Peaks there were..  My local video store 
|> has only the first 7 episodes on tape, so no chance of amassing it all 
|> from there.
|> -----
|> Doug Cha
|> dcha@flex.com  

Here you go. I wrote this for the credits library in the TP ftp site at
audrey.sait.edu.au several months ago.  It does not contain any plot
information.

The short answer to your question is that there were 30 episodes, two
of which (the first season pilot episode and the second season premiere
episode) were two hours in length.  Note that the last episode as shown
in the USA was two hours long because it was actually the last two episodes
edited together.

--


NOTE FOR _TWIN PEAKS_ CREDITS:
  The show is divided into two seasons. The first season consisted
of a 2 hour pilot and 7 one hour episodes. The second season
consisted of 22 episodes, the first of which was 2 hours.
According to sources in the production company (i.e., Scott
Frost) the episodes are numbered as follows: The seven first
season episodes were numbered sequentially 1001 to 1007.
The pilot had no production number, so for convienience,
it is refered to as episode 1000.
  The second season episodes were numbered starting with the
number 2001, the two-hour season opening. The rest of the
episodes are numbered sequentially 2002 to 2022 to the end
of the season. So, the broadcast order is 1000, 1001 to 1007,
and 2001 to 2022.
  Additionally, there is a version of the pilot that was released
in Europe and Japan. It is slightly different from the American
version, and for sake of convenience, I refer to it as episode
0000, although this is not the offical production code.
  I summarize this information below.
    
Episode #      Date(s) shown in USA     Nature of Episode
-----------    --------------------     ----------------------
0000 (2hrs)    Never shown in U.S. European Video Release
     
1000 (2hrs)    04/08/90, 08/05/90       American Season One
1001           04/12/90, 08/11/90       
1002           04/19/90, 08/18/90      
1003           04/26/90, 08/25/90       
1004           05/03/90, 09/01/90       
1005           05/10/90, 09/08/90       
1006           05/17/90, 09/08/90       
1007           05/23/90, 09/15/90       

2001 (2hrs)    09/30/90                 American Season Two
2002           10/06/90                 
2003           10/13/90                 
2004           10/20/90                 
2005           10/27/90                 
2006           11/03/90                 
2007           11/10/90                 
2008           11/17/90                 
2009           12/01/90                 
2010           12/08/90                 
2011           12/15/90                 
2012           01/12/91                 
2013           01/19/91
2014           02/02/91
2015           02/09/91
2016           02/16/91
2017           03/28/91
2018           04/04/91
2019           04/11/91
2020           04/18/91
2021           06/10/91
2022           06/10/91


-- "One time I removed all the David E. Coufal hair from a mouse with Nair-Hair BITNET:dcoufal@mitwccf just to see what it looked like. INTERNET:dcoufal@athena.mit.edu And it looked beautiful." - David K. Lynch dec@alumni.caltech.edu

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In article <Bu6Iu6.1yr@well.sf.ca.us>, rchao@well.sf.ca.us (Robert Chao) writes:
|> 
|> Who is Scott Frost, who is listed as the author of Cooper's autobiog?
|> Did he have anything to do with the show?
|> -- 
|> Robert Chao
|> Oakland, California

Scott Frost is the brother of Mark Frost, one of the two creators of
"Twin Peaks."  He's not only the author of the Autobiography, but he also
wrote the Twin Peaks Tapes of Agent Cooper and the second season episodes
2008 and 2014.  

Old Time a.tv.tpers will also recall that Paul Raveling (are you still out
there, Paul?) was related to Scott Frost by marriage, so he was the source
of lots of inside production information.

-- "One time I removed all the David E. Coufal hair from a mouse with Nair-Hair BITNET:dcoufal@mitwccf just to see what it looked like. INTERNET:dcoufal@athena.mit.edu And it looked beautiful." - David K. Lynch dec@alumni.caltech.edu

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BTW, I heard from someone that Angelo Badalamenti's son, Andre, was supposed to be playing an instrument on the new soundtrack.  But his name isn't mentioned anywhere.  Anyone know what happened?
Internet address: Floyd@ufcc.ufl.edu
Bitnet address  : Floyd@ufcc
All opinions expressed are my own or mine.

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Spoiler spaces...





















Since no one else has mentioned it, I'll throw this out for
consideration. How about Deer Meadow as a twin of Twin Peaks.
You have a great case for a doppelganger community here. The
Sheriff's secretary is completely antithetical to Lucy's
sweet, winsome, helpful, generous ways. The deputy always
laughs, Andy always cris. Sheriff Cable couldn't be further
from Truman. The town (at least, the Fat Trout Trailer Park)
seems to be at the diametrically opposed end of the socio-
economic spectrum from Twin Peaks. Contrast Harry Dean Stanton
with Ben Horne for guest accomodations. Then there's the
diner, with the sardonic waitress, cigarette but hanging
from her lip; hardly Norma. But she is blond, as it the
Sheriff's secretary.

Another thought: point has been raised as to a possible
continuity error whereby Laura has already given Harold Smith
her secret diary _before_ she wakes up with Annie in her bed
telling her to write in her diary about Cooper and Laura
being in the Lodge. But this is in fact perfectly correct,
because this dream is not reflected in the diary, we don't
find out about it until Cooper and Donna (in the series)
encounter the _real_ Mrs. Tremond, who gives them the note
that Harold or Laura had given her to give to Donna. That
note describes Laura's dream in which she believes Cooper
is going to help her, the dream about the Lodge. So she
must have given that to Harold or Mrs. Tremond the next day.



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In article <1992Sep6.235939.20555@cs.mun.ca> georgen@pooky.cs.mun.ca (George Noel) writes:

   In article <118697@muvms3.bitnet> swk004@muvms3.bitnet (CONNIE LEINEN, SWK004@MARSHALL, HUNTINGTON, WV) writes:
   >I saw the movie Saturday.  Last night, I decided to watch the first 
   >2-hour episode (yet again).
   >
   >Curious, but in the opening shot of Josie.  They show what appears
   >to be a stylized, ceramic black dog.  Coincidence?  I think not.
   >
   >Connie

    There are numerous references to dogs in Twin Peaks.. in the movie when
    the OAM is shouting at Leland in his car they quickly cut away and show
    a black dog barking.


 -=*George*=-

   Did anyone else notice that when Leland sees the owl-mask Pierre
dancing or walking or whatever, that a very low voice in the
background was saying "The black dog (barks/walks) at night" over and
over... I'm sorry I can't remember the exact words.

    -- David


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When Mike is yelling at Leland saying "the thread will break" I
couldn't help but think or Bob's last words before he left Leland
(from memory, so no flames if it's not quite right, but corrections
welcomed) "And then I'm going to pull the cord, and all the memories
are just going to flood back in". And then Leland realizes what he's
done. So perhaps Mike is warning Leland that if he doesn't give up
Bob, he's eventually going to have to face all that he's done.

   Also, Laura notices the burned smell _before_ Leland starts racing
the engine -- so it must be a Bob-ish manifestation, not a the engine
racing.

   Perhaps (as suggested by the fact that the arm is already gone)
Mike _is_ good in FWWM, but just somehow powerless against Bob (in
traincar scene). When he and the LMFAP insist on their Gormonzobia,
and Bob heals Leland, perhaps that's for Leland's own good: If he died
before Bob pulled the string he'd lose his chance for redemption,
which does get (like Laura) through Cooper with an assist from the
Tibetan book of the dead.

    Many things to think about...


    -- David Durand

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-> The ring had been Teresa's for quite some time, since it was
-> in all the pictures.  After her death, it was found by Desmond
-> on a pile of dirt.
-> 
-> Laura's necklace had been hers for quite some time also.
-> After her death it was found by the police on a pile of dirt.
-> 
-> Perhaps the ritual aspects of Bob's killing someone involves
-> taking one of the person's possessions and making sort of
-> an offering of it.
Humm. Then why would the ring be connected with the lodge (ie: don't put on 
the ring). I would say that Bob's "offering" of it gives it those 
properties, but that doesn't explain the Owl cave symbols which are a mush 
better conection to the lodges. I think that Bob used the necklace quite 
simply because the ring wasn't there any more.

 /-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| It's all a game...                                                        |
|                        Gregory C. Salmieri                                |
|                                                       ...It's all the same|
 \-------------------------------------------------------------------------/

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I have searched and searched but I still cannot find a GIF or JPG of
David Lynch. (as Gordon Cole or otherwise)  I am looking in the 
GIF and JPG dirs at 130.220.16.88 (thats the audrey thingy) and
nic.funet.fi also.  Does anyone know if one (any) exists?

-- ( )-------------------------------------------------------------( ) | Peter T. Norman Memorial University of Newfoundland | ( )---------------------------------( )-------------------------( ) | UNIX: pnorman@morgan.ucs.mun.ca | "...if we wanted to | | VMS: pnorman@kean.ucs.mun.ca | make films that would | ( )---------------------------------( ) not offend anyone, we | | "... i think i've reached that | would make them about | | point, where every wish has come | sewing, maybe; although | | true and tired disguised oblivion| even that could be | | is everything i do..." | ...dangerous" | | -Robert Smith | -David Lynch | ( )---------------------------------( )-------------------------( )

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This is my first post, so bear with me.

Does anyone have a complete list of the cast from the closing credits
of the movie? I have accumulated a list of over 400 "characters" from
the show, the books, the TP Gazette, etc, and would like to complete
it. (Yes, I suppose I should get a life.)

The cast list that is regularly posted is limited to only the major
characters of the show and movie.

If I can get my FrameMaker list into Emacs, I'll try to post it once
it's complete.



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Movie spoiler


Seeing BOB (it looked like BOB was the one eating "the pain and sorrow" in
the movie) makes me wonder even more about Josie's missing weight after
her death from fear--wasn't that how Coop referred to her death, that it
was as if she died from fright.  It seemed obvious that somehow Josie
was mixed up with the dark forces. She was the first TP person we ever
saw, in that weird scene of her applying lipstick, and humming as if she
were possessed, or knew something. Almost the exact scene was seen just
before she went off to visit Thomas Eckhert. And I remember the scene
when Hank did that brother siblings stuff....after he leaves she spreads
their blood over her lips as if its lipstick. Speaking of lipstick,
didn't Laura do something similar in the movie--and possibly even Ronnette.
Anyway, just before Eckhert and Josie meet we see fire reflecting off Eckhert's
sunglasses. All this makes me wonder if Josie was tied with the Black
Lodge, BOB, and that her missing weight is her "pain, and sorrow," her
Creamed Corn, which BOB consumed?

Sally--
-- And I'll see you//And you'll see me || Sally A. Wilson And I'll see you in the branches that blow || Spud Peel In the breeze,//I'll see you in the trees || sally@mica.berkeley.edu Under the sycamore trees (_Sycamore_Trees_ Lynch/Badalamenti)

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I recall reading an interview with David Lynch (maybe in Rolling Stone?);
he states that he likes happy endings.  I think that this is relevant to 
all discussion of the angel in the final scene.

-- ( )-------------------------------------------------------------( ) | Peter T. Norman Memorial University of Newfoundland | ( )---------------------------------( )-------------------------( ) | UNIX: pnorman@morgan.ucs.mun.ca | "...if we wanted to | | VMS: pnorman@kean.ucs.mun.ca | make films that would | ( )---------------------------------( ) not offend anyone, we | | "... i think i've reached that | would make them about | | point, where every wish has come | sewing, maybe; although | | true and tired disguised oblivion| even that could be | | is everything i do..." | ...dangerous" | | -Robert Smith | -David Lynch | ( )---------------------------------( )-------------------------( )

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What bothered me a bit was that in the series Laura was said to have
bled to death from many small wounds, but in FWWM Leland/Bob seems to
be smashing her, as in the case of Teresa Banks and the series.  I
wish Lynch would make up his mind.


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In article <kgmLqB2w165w@eisley.wa.com> ace@eisley.wa.com (Ace of Death) writes:
> >There are seperate listings in the credits for each angel and neither one 
> >is Laura. I believe that these are the angel that "left" Laura's picture 
> >earlier on.  Laura "got her angel back" at the end with the help of 
> >Cooper.  This includes the fore/back shadowing presence of Annie who 
> >tells Laura to wright in her Diary, which Cooper finds and helps her.
> >Yes I know it's confusing but that makes it great, IMHO.

Hmm, can you remind me how Cooper used the diary entry to help *her*, whoever
*her* is?


William
-- email: lai@seas.gwu.edu | "I want to do everything. I want to have everything. Dept. of Electrical Eng.| I have a wonderful, wonderful life. But there's so George Washington Univ. | much more out there. Do I have it all? Yes. Do I Washington, D.C. | want more? Yeah, sure." -Demi Moore

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Does anyone know when FWM is due to be released in Australia?
Could someone tell me who is handling the distribution in the
States?  That would certainly help me track down who is handling
it over here.

Thanks,

Morgana
miuvdd@lure.latrobe.edu.au

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lai@seas.gwu.edu (William Y. Lai) writes:

> > In article <kgmLqB2w165w@eisley.wa.com> ace@eisley.wa.com (Ace of Death) writ
>> > >There are seperate listings in the credits for each angel and neither one 
>> > >is Laura. I believe that these are the angel that "left" Laura's picture 
>> > >earlier on.  Laura "got her angel back" at the end with the help of 
>> > >Cooper.  This includes the fore/back shadowing presence of Annie who 
>> > >tells Laura to wright in her Diary, which Cooper finds and helps her.
>> > >Yes I know it's confusing but that makes it great, IMHO.
> > 
> > Hmm, can you remind me how Cooper used the diary entry to help *her*, whoever
> > *her* is?

the *her* is Laura Palmer.
I don't think that Copper used a specific entry in the diary.
What I mean is that writing something like that *in general* would give 
them something that might help figure things out and help her.
And the fact that part of her really wants to be helped.


Bye For Now...
           ___  ____  ____           ____   ____     ___  _____  _   _
  /\      /   |/  __||  __|         |  _ \ |  __|   /   ||_   _|| | | |
 /  \    / /| || |   | |__   __  __ | | \ || |__   / /| |  | |  | |_| |
(    )  / __  || |__ | |__  |  ||_  | |_/ || |__  / __  |  | |  |  _  |
 ~/\~  /_/  |_|\____||____| |__||   |____/ |____|/_/  |_|  |_|  |_| |_|
  ~~                ace@eisley.wa.com

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The David Lynch circus is back.  While Mark Frost is happy to leave the
town he helped make a prime-time legend, his ex-partner is still living
there, with all the warped ingenuousness of a rural kid who tells his
friends, "Let's put the freak show on right here!  Again!"  Twin Peaks Fire
Walk With Me, Lynch's way-too-late prequel to the 1990 TV series, relates
the last days of teen queen Laura Palmer (Sheryl Lee).  After an agonizing
first half-hour designed to empty the theater, Lynch unleashes his patented
perfervid style, puts the familiar dwarfs and feebs on display and elicits
a nicely horrifying turn from Lee.  But the magic has died:  nothing seems
older than a two-year-old fad on the comeback trail.  How ya gonna keep 'em
down in Twin Peaks after the Zeitgeist's gone?


John Schultz (caffeine abuser)   !  ABC killed Laura Palmer
c491153@mizzou1.bitnet           !  Macintosh-free and proud of it!
c491153@mizzou1.missouri.edu     !  Subscriber to the hacker ethic

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Well, I saw FWWM a second time and here are some thoughts and observations...

We hear the whooping noise from the LMFAP in the waiting room, twice when
shots of the poles are shown, and when the OAM is driving behind Leland.

The fan makes three appearances, the first is when Laura goes home to find
BOB looking for the diary.  Second is when the lights are flashing and BOB
says 'I want to taste through you.'  Finally, Leland turns the fan on before
BOB crawls in through Laura's window.  I believe the fan motif is a sign of
BOB exerting his influence in the physical world or making himself known, but
I would have to check my tapes to make sure of this assumption tho.

The monkey makes two appearances.  The first is in Jeffries' dream sequence -
Pierre lifts his mask (showing Pierre), lowers it, and lifts in again showing
the monkey.  The second is after we see the shot of someone (I believe it to
be Leland) eating the creamed corn.  The monkey here doesn't look the same as
the first monkey, almost fake in fact.  Although I'm no primate expert, the
shot of the first monkey reminded me of the macaques (I think that's right)
that inhabit Japan (nature shows often show them at hot springs there in the
winter).

Although I thought that the person in bed with Laura was Annie the first time
I saw it, I am no longer so sure.  It *does* look quite a bit like Ronette.
However, the fact the credit Heather Graham makes me think it is just a bad
camera angle.

John Schultz (caffeine abuser)   !  ABC killed Laura Palmer
c491153@mizzou1.bitnet           !  Macintosh-free and proud of it!
c491153@mizzou1.missouri.edu     !  Subscriber to the hacker ethic

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I work for the company that produces NEXIS and thus have access to the
full text of hundreds of publications going back several years.  I did
a search on GARMONBOZIA and potential variants, and got back a message
that said GARMONBOZIA (and its variants) did not exist in our data 
(apparently not even in the recent movie reviews).

I then tried the phrase "GREAT WENT", as in Jacques saying that he is
the Great Went.  The answerset had over 100 documents. In most
instances, the two terms were coincidently used in proximity. In the
remaining documents, it was quoted from the movie, usually as an
example of the meaninglessness of the movie.

I wonder where Lynch et al get things like this.  I suspect that
he makes up half of it, and that it's not supposed to make any sense.
Kind of like the real world.

Mark

Carl Rodd:  "Damn, these people are confusing."


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In article <1992Sep6.215543.19362@cs.mun.ca>, georgen@pooky.cs.mun.ca (George Noel) writes:
>> >>
>> >>It didn't have anything on Owls?  I'm amazed.  Owls are of tremndous
>> >>symbolic importance, especially in the NW.  As a quick rule of thumb,
>> >>Owls represent emotions and emotional events, and almost never in a
>> >>positive manner.  I'll look up some info I have at home regarding the
>> >>mythic interpretation of Owls in the NW Coast, but if I recall, owls
>> >>were feared.
>> >>

>> >>
>> >>PS:  If memory serves, according to one particular tribe (Kwaikuital?
>> >>Not Positive which) Owls were created from strong emotions of fear at
>> >>the time of death.  Hopefully I can find some of my old college textx
>> >>on the subject.  And I thought my Anthro classes would never be useful
>> >>:).
>> >>  
> >  Another example to back this up is that Cooper only starts to see the
> >  giant after he gets shot and near death.
> > 
> > 

I wonder if that what the Log Lady meant when she said "The Owls are not what 
they seem." (ie maybe she meant that death isn't as bad as Coop or Laura 
thought). Anyone have thoughts? Anyone? Buller....

Mike

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Well, I just got back from my fun Lynchian weekend and watched (genuflect)
FWWM twice.  I just finished piling through all of the news on it and HAVE I
GOT SOME IDEAS....

First a comment on the For mike a table- clever.
Someone said that there were no owls - hello?  The arm's call was an owl's.
I picked up the message when the kid with mask is jumping in a circle "The
Black Dog Walks at Night", could this mean that Bob comes out of 
Lelund at night?
What was the significance of the old woman in the trailer park, the one with
the icepack on her face, Lynch what are you on?
I know that it was very muffled and so vague but when the OAM was yelling at
Lelund and Laura in the car i think he said "Did you see how happy
she looked", maybe in the lodge or about Teresa?
Hey Laura, when I see dead people in my bed talking to me, i dont sit there
and look passively, and flip out when they leave, sniff some more.
Possible something about how the future/past and time continueum is
totally messed.  How does Annie know Coop when they don't meet until
right before the Miss Twin Peaks Pageant?
I think Sarah is like some all-knowing person who cant interfere- i mean, 
she is always willing to drink the drug and then she foresees the 
WhiteHorse and then Bob comes out (reference to the Maddy seen and 
in FWWM)
Why was the formica table green- significance?
Another comment on the parallels with TP and DeerMeadow - that's good, the
diner esp.  But what about the man "are you talking about that
young girl who was murdered".  What was that?
One comment on the series - Audrey Horne CAN NOT POSSIBLY BE DEAD!!  (Lynchloves the character too much) and besides, she left the post office
before the explosion.
Ronette Pulanski - now this was interesting
She was babbling to Lelund/Bob that she was sorry.  Then the first 
angel appeared in silence and then she was saved by OAM.  But to 
save Laura, he threw the ring, she puts it on and is murdered.
She then sees her angel in the lodge (color unknown, maybe white).
Does anyone have anymore on that?  Was she happy finally, or free?

My applause to David Lynch for creating this movie- but I'm confused at
why people want to buy scripts - i think that this was a visual movie.
Good cameo by Keifer.
The woman in the Deer Meadow cafe said that Teresa's left arm went numb.
Anything on that?

Alot of people said that this movie was a total drug thing and that it
was all Laura's problem, but how does that explain the lodges and the 
others involved.
I also remembered Harold in the movie, the one who could not leave his
house, he knew about everything including Bob, i think it is not all 
from Laura.
What happened to Ben,Jerry,Josie,Windham,Audrey,Catherine,Nadine, and the 
rest of the crew that we so dearly love.





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I think the thread that must be broken is another metaphor for the circle
Mike spoke of in the series (appetite, something, fullfillment (I think)).
It make more sense than any of the more literal theories that have been
proposed.

__   -paul asente
\/     asente@adobe.com   ...decwrl!adobe!asente   moo-bear@cs.stanford.edu

o       In China's remote Dimsum province, oxen are used in
        place of technical writers, with no apparent loss of
        readability.

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In article <1992Sep6.211420.18741@cs.mun.ca>, georgen@pooky.cs.mun.ca (George
Noel) writes:
> >I was re-watching some episodes lately and from what I can see, the Palmer
> >house isn't a different "set", actually, don't they use a real house? In the
> >TV series, we see the house from a different perspective.. mainly from the
> >living room into the dining room whereas in the movie we see it mainly from
> >the front door to the dining room or in the dining room itself making it
*seem*
> >smaller.
> > 
> > -=*George*=-
> >
> >
Yes it clearly is a real house, but it is also just as clearly not the same
house (I went back and looked at the pilot episode too).  You are right that
the angle is different, but I think that was done to try to disguise the fact
that the house is different.  In fact, I noticed that many of the locations in
the movie are different than the ones used in the show.  I think much of the
show was shot on location.  Perhaps the people who live/work in those spaces
didn't want to have the movie shot there after 2 years of being disturbed by
the series' filming?

A.J. LoCicero >> cicero@hotcity.com

This message comes to you from beautiful Morgan Hill, California, U.S.A.:
The front line in the war against Suburbanization!

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In alt.tv.twin-peaks, v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey) writes:

>> > >Yeah, if you mean, by good acting, the regular descent into tear
>> > >filled histrionics that are barely justified and not especially
>> > >convincing.  About half way through the movie I was hoping Leland
>> > >would hurry up and kill her so she would stop crying all the time.
> > 
> >      "Regular" as compared to what? 

Regular as opposed to occasional.

> > Barely justified?

Barely justified by the screenplay.

> >  If being
> >      regularly raped by your father since the age of twelve, not
> >      to mentioned being bombarded by BOB's desire to take away
> >      your body and keep you prisoner in it for fifty or sixty years...

Hey, I am NOT denying that these are good reasons.  The screenplay
did nothing at all to create the emotional horror that these
would cause.  Sure, it SHOWS us that the character feels it, but
early on it gives almost no logical justification, and it never
gives an adequate sense of the emotional justification for
her reactions.  The CLOSEST it comes is to show her father raping her,
but that whole scene is so ethereal and abstract that one is left
to suspect that it was entirely a dream.  The whole business
is just too plodding and matter of fact to convince me of any
justification for her distress.  The screenplay seemed to assume
that all it had to do was go through the motions of making us
feel Laura's horror, and I think it failed miserably compared
to the little tidbits that were offered on TV.

Of course rape and possession are good reasons for hysterics, but
the screenplay managed to turn these things into poorly managed
props rather than things of horror.

> >      Sure, I'd call that barely reason to cry once or twice... or
> >      be scared... or to lose your mind and go on coke binges to
> >      forget your pain (or do anything else that might lessen the
> >      pain)...
> >      Sure, I see your point almost immediately.

No, you don't.  You see your point, and you want pretend that this
gives you a reason to be sarcastic about MY point.  You do
not see my point at all.

> > 
> >      As for convincing...  Well...  I guess it is pretty easy for
> >      us all to be familiar with what kind of person a victim of
> >      all the above would be like...

Of course it isn't easy.  The movie is supposed to pull us along into
that horror,  much like the tv show managed to do far more effectively.

> > 
>> > >On the whole, I thought her acting job was pretty wretched, and
>> > >the only real reccommendation I could give is, 'go see the movie
>> > >if you want to see Sheryl Lee's breasts'.  Other than that, filming
>> > >this movie was a pretty big mistake as it tries to embody the
>> > >mystery of Larua P, and merely reduces her to a whiny and less
>> > >than sympathetic little twit.   It really may not be something
>> > >Lynch could have changed.  This series was driven and empowered
>> > >by the very mysterious nature of Laura.  They removed that.
> > 
> >      A little more than half of TWIN PEAKS occured AFTER Laura's
> >      murder was solved...  How does THAT embody her mystery?

It doesn't, but it still left her a mystery.  Even with the diary,
there were very broad parts of Laura's character that had to
be fleshed in by the imagination.  This left that fleshing in
job to the icons and symbols and archetypes of the imagination.
This is far more powerful than the picture we were given on the screen.
Admittedly, this is just my opinion, but I think there is 
a great deal of truth to it.  Embodying L.P. reduced her.

> > 
> >      If you think Laura in FWWM was unsympathetic, I'd hate to
> >      be judged by you.  Whiny?  You'd whine a little if your
> >      father was molesting you.

ITS A MOVIE.  If your father was molesting you, I would NOT condemn
you for crying. I am condemning a SCREENPLAY and an editing and
directing job.  These are completely different things, as you well
know.  My judgement of things in the REAL world is somewhat different,
and I find your personal attack to be a cheap and offensive attempt
to make your point through sarcasm.

FWWM is an attempt at art, and hence the burden of proof rests
on its shoulders, not mine, and I was left somewhat unconvinced.

> > 
> >      What's the problem with a movie that isn't driven on the
> >      mystery of how she wound up dead, but driven by HOW she
> >      wound up dead?  I thought FWWM was not only driving, but
> >      also intense and, incredibly, suspenseful. 

It was vaguely suspenseful in periods when I was not looking at
my watch and thinking, "Well, at least it isn't Prospero's Books".

> >      I think Lynch
> >      and Engles really turned our foreknowledge of the ending
> >      into a strength.

No, he wasted a screenplay.

> > 
>> > >And the teaser scenes in the series about the murder in the train
>> > >car are FAR more effective dramatically than what they actually
>> > >filmed for the movie.
> > 
> >      For sheer effect, I think I'd have to actually agree with you
> >      here.  Ronnette's flashbacks were goddamn scary, much more
> >      intense than what we saw in FWWM. 

I am glad we agree on at least this, because I found these scenes
in the tv show to be some of the most distubing things ever
shown on tv.  I wish the movie had achieved this effect. 
Its failure to do so, is a big part of the reason that I
was ultimately disappointed.

> >      But the FWWM train car
> >      scene (while one of the most faulty in the film, I think)
> >      put a new and wonderful twist on it -- how Laura BEATS BOB,
> >      how even though she dies, it's in dying that she wins.  For
> >      Lynch, this is indeed a happy ending -- that is the gold
> >      in the FWWM version.

This is not a new twist.  That whole viewpoint was adequately
pointed out in the tv show.  The tv show made it clear that
it was a battle for possession of her soul.  It made it clear
that she died so that she would not lose her soul.  The 
implication was obvious to anyone who gave it some thought.

> > 
>> > >I was disappointed.
> > 
> >      I'm really sorry you feel that way, because I'm thrilled with
> >      FWWM... The explanations are shocking and interesting, the
> >      possibilities are open... and the "passion play" mythology --
> >      I think shown for the first time to their potential (as the
> >      snippets we got of LMFAP and BOB and Red Room stuff in the
> >      series was way too few and far between).

You have your right to your opinion.  This movie made me not care
if Lynch EVER does a T.P. subject again.  In fact, I hope that
he doesn't.  The series stands as an artistic statement, and there
is no reason to flog the corpse.  The movie strongly reinforces
that view in me.


doug


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On the subject of possible future miniseries:

I too woul be overjoyed to see them this might be the perfect vehicle for TP,
however there are big problems ahead for this.  Many of the original cast are
now unwilling to do twin-peaks work, and as time passes, the younger actors
will be unable to play the characters because they are getting to old.  Sheryl
Lee did IMHO a wonderful job in FWWM, but lets face it,  She's already pushing
it as a convincing teenager.

A.J. LoCicero >> cicero@hotcity.com

This message comes to you from beautiful Morgan Hill, California, U.S.A.:
The front line in the war against Suburbanization!

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In article <1992Sep6.224823.19835@cs.mun.ca>, georgen@pooky.cs.mun.ca (George
Noel) writes:
> >In article <185u3nINNp44@agate.berkeley.edu> sally@anableps.berkeley.edu (S.
A. 
> >Wilson) writes:
>> >>
>> >>After reading the Coop autobiography I also wondered if the murder
>> >>of Laura also was a lure to get Coop to TP for the conjunction of
>> >>Neptune and Saturn, which marked some occurence involving the two
>> >>Lodges...
>> >>
>> >>Sally--
>> >>
> > I have been thinking about this, when Coop goes to Twin Peaks he said
> > he has been having these dreams for 3 years (dealing with knowing
> > things when the body and mind are in a certain state). Coop is
> > fascinated with Tibet and uses a lot of Tibetan practices (throwing
> > rock at bottle on stump for example). Coop also mentions about the
> > Dhali Llama (SP!) being "bannished" from Tibet to live in India in
> > exile until the day he can return and reclaim Tibet or something like
> > that.. maybe Coop has been possessed by the Dhali Llama and Bob et al
> > found him as a threat and wanted to detroy him or they need him for
> > something.
> > 
> >  This could also explain what Phillip Jeffries says in the movie..
> >  "Do you know who this man there (really) is?" - could mean that he really
> >  is now Bob (and that scene was telling the future after Bob posseses
> >  Cooper like Annie's scene in the movie where she appears in Laura's
> >  dream was telling of the events that would happen in the hospital - the
> >  scenes that were cut). OR he could mean that Coop is really the Dhali
> >  Llama.
> >   
> >   -=*George*=-
> >   
I'm glad you brought up the line about "Don't you know who he is?"  I think
that is very important, and I don't see anyone addressing it yet.  I think that
perhaps, yes, it is an allusion to Cooper being possessed by BOB.  As for the
Dali Lama, He is a real person not a spirit.  I am not aware of his ability to
possess anyone.

A.J. LoCicero >> cicero@hotcity.com

This message comes to you from beautiful Morgan Hill, California, U.S.A.:
The front line in the war against Suburbanization!

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In article <1992Sep6.230736.20045@cs.mun.ca>, georgen@pooky.cs.mun.ca (George
Noel) writes:
> >In article <1992Sep3.180230.7312@ac.dal.ca> 01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:
>> >>In article <1992Sep2.084258.5488@cs.mun.ca>, georgen@pooky.cs.mun.ca (George
No
> >el) writes:
>>> >>> In article <H11FqB2w165w@zitt> zitt!joe@dogface.austin.tx.us (Joe Zitt)
write
> >s:
>>>> >>>>01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:
>>>> >>>>
>>> >>> 
>>> >>>  Twin Peaks is supposed to be really close to the Canadian border. Remember
>>> >>>  that One Eyed Jacks is also in Canada (from what I understood). I don't
>>> >>>  know about anyone else but, I am from Canada and I didn't particularly
like
>>> >>>  the impression they were trying to paint on Canadian bars, or Canada
itself.
> >
>> >>Well, I'm Canadian too, and I thought it was a riot. I mean, when you think
of 
> >
>> >>it, Canada has an international reputation a lot like TP. Lots of scenery,
>> >>lots of trees, the Rockies, quite rural, and the people are all nice, 
>> >>friendly, maybe a little on the dull side. Mind, I'm not saying Canada is
*like
> >*
>> >>that, but I think that's what a lot of overseas people believe, or so I
suspect
> >.
>> >>
>> >>Therefore, I think it makes sence that Canada, like TP, is idyllic and quiet
>> >>on the surface, but is hiding lots of dirty little secrets. I wonder if Lynch
>> >>has ever been to Canada.
>> >>
>> >>Just a thought.
>> >>Mike
> >
> > Actually, this is true.. now that I think of it Twin Peaks DOES resemble
> > Canada like you said. As a sidenote, on a comedy show I was watching there
> > was a sketch where a comedian was saying that Canada would be the perfect
> > country to invade someone else. You would have the president from the other
> > country calling the UN and telling them that Canada is invading us and the
> > UN would say Canada? They wouldn't do anything like that... :-)
> >  
> >  -=*George*=-
Most Americans who don't live near the Canadian border know next to nothing
about Canada.  They have vague notions about beer drinking, Lumber jacks, and
the McKenzie twins.  It is really a sad situation that we are so ignorant of
one of our nearest neighbors.  However, cinematicly speaking this ignorance
means that you can construct a mileu like TP and create a very effective
MYTHICAL Canada to set your film in.  (Of course this won't work for
Canadians).  It is also true the Twin Peaks is a lot like Canada in some ways ,
because it is true the much of the U.S. near the boarder is like Canada. 
Listen to a northern Minnesotan talk sometime.

A.J. LoCicero >> cicero@hotcity.com

This message comes to you from beautiful Morgan Hill, California, U.S.A.:
The front line in the war against Suburbanization!

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Here are my questions and comments. I was never a PEAKS FREAK, though
I did watch each and every episode, and gave the BOB/red room/etc
angle mmuch thought. I'm hoping to spark some thought...

1. Who was Mike?
2. Explain the electrical wires/current..
3. Where goes Chet Desmond?
4. How long has Cooper been experiencing the Red Room?
5. Do all people who descend (?) to the room acquire Doppelgaenger?
6. What mean Chalfont?
7. Phillip Jeffries was damong the "people." In like manner
of Cooper?
8. Why does the evil not invade everyone?
9. Can someone post their theory of the meaning of the RED ROOM
PEOPLE?
10. Are we to really believe in BOB? Is Lynch just making evil tangible
so as to enable one to feel?
11. What happened to the other world stuff (Briggs, et. al.)


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In article <7SEP92.15510476@vax.clarku.edu>, htilney@vax.clarku.edu writes:
> >There's probably a simple reason for this that I'm forgetting, but if MIKE
> >was capable of warning Laura about Leland in the movie, why did he need to
> >spend all that time in the series searching for BOB and interrogating Ben 
> >Horne? I suppose (legally speaking)he couldn't have Leland arrested 
> >without evidence.
> >
> >-                              |   "A guy with a hard-on is not
> >Bart "Webb" Tilney             |    my idea of art."
> >Email: htilney@vax.clarku.edu  |                       - John Mellencamp
I think MIKE doesn't know that BOB is Leland.  I'm not sure he knows who Leland
even is.  I think MIKE just knows BOB when he sees him.  He may have just
assumed that Leland was Laura's father in the car scene.

A.J. LoCicero >> cicero@hotcity.com

This message comes to you from beautiful Morgan Hill, California, U.S.A.:
The front line in the war against Suburbanization!

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In article <3SEP92.14581627@wums.wustl.edu> furesz_t@wums.wustl.edu writes:
> >  I think the best way would be to have a
> >yearly miniseries (something the length of the first season).  That way
> >each spring they could air a new 7-9 hours (one hour a week) works
> >well. 

I agree.  I think about 12 episodes a year would be right.  That would
probably be about the same amount of work as shooting the orginial
season.  I think the second season would have been better if they
had only done 12 episodes and then done the second 12 a year later.
It would have given them more time to work out details of the plot
and make sure everything was of higher quality.




-- An amazing insight may have paid you a fleeting visit and then retreated. Resist the temptation to chase it; it is faster than you are. Value your glimpse of it, and invite it to return some other time. -John Bitmap

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FWWM spoiler below





In FWWM, the last time we see the brief image of the small monkey (just
about the time of the shot of the corn being slurped off the spoon), the
monkey says something.  Its mouth moves, and if you listen closely you 
hear a deep male voice speak a single word - well-synched to the visual.  

And, according to the friends with whom I viewed the movie last weekend, 
that single word spoken by the Monkey From Another Place is:

"Judy"

!!

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In article <BtzCM0.G47@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey) writes:
> > Date:  2 Sep 1992 21:52 EDT  
> > Distribution: world
> > Keywords:  
> > 
> > In article <1992Sep2.211218.22627@adobe.com>, asente@adobe.com (A Usenet Pal) writes...
<previous interesting stuff deleted>

>> >> But with Laura, on the other hand, I think you've missed a big
> >      piece of the point: Laura wasn't killed out of jealousy, Laura
> >      was killed out of RAGE because she had the strength (as Leland
> >      when he was a child did not) to resist BOB...  BOB wanted Laura
> >      as his new host...  She resisted him from the ages of 12 to 17,
> >      and it nearly cost her sanity (or maybe it DID cost her sanity).
> >      Scott Gorcey

Comment to above paragraph:

Yes, I think that Laura was killed out of RAGE because sh resisted, BUT only
that last day - up until then I think she was too afraid to resist Le/Bob so
gave in, and only on that last day, when she saw Le/Bob as he was really he
dad did she get up enough courage and remember when she went to school that
last day, and told him no more, leave me alone?  To me that marked her as
Le/Bob's next victim.  Interesting thoughts you've given me about the train
sceen.  Just saw the movie FINALLY last night so it is really fresh in my mind.
I *LOVED* it, my husband just thought it was OK.  I'd say, but the audience
here in Dallas, seven in the whole theatre last night (movies been out 1 wk)
that we will see this out on video within two months.

Quietest show I've even been in.  My husband and I were the only ones (I think)
that were fans from the other 5 people's reactions.

Any other thought's on when we will all get to rush out and buy the video
(and ruin one copy just using freeze frame again, and again, and again...)

debbie > dcormell@SSCVX1.gov

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   Are we ever going to get a chance to see the so-called "White Lodge" as
mentioned during the series? The next movie would be a good time to explore
this, I think. What bothers me is that I got the impression from the series
that both lodges would be dealt with at about the same time, i.e. that some
character or characters ( like Cooper ) would have to pass through the Black
lodge before entering the White one. It seems like the focus during the series
leaned heavily toward the Black Lodge and never fleshed out the White.

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Spoiler spaces












My first thought when I saw the old woman with the icepack
at the trailer park was that it was the same hunched-over woman
that sewed the Q of hearts onto Audrey at OEJ's in the first
season.  I suspected at that time and I still sort of suspect
that the character is played in drag.  I even wondered if it
might be David Lynch himself.

When the LMFAP says "I am the arm and I sound like this..." and he
makes the Indian woo-woo noise, he deliberately made the noise
slow down and taper off.  This got me to wondering about the nature
of the noise.  I almost think that it's supposed to be like a sine-wave
audio signal (siren?).  This would make sense in the "Electricity" context.  It
seems like the "woo-woo" sound is linked with a TV set and Laura's
apparent fear of power lines.

One final out-on-a-limb thought.  Assume that the pain and suffering theme
of TP:FWWM is related to addiction.  Addiction=electricity=TV=TP=
Our (the fans of TP) addiction to the television series.  I don't think
that's really the message that Lynch intended, but I know that there
were times during the series that if I didn't get my TP fix I was going
to go mad.

Keep 'em flying!

Terran J Boylan

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As I did last week, I have taken the numbers reported
in a clari article and computed $/screen for many of the
top films. This is for the labor day weekend.

M$screens$/screen

Honeymoon in Vegas9.21749$5300
Unforgiven6.42058$3100
Single White Female5.11744$2900
Pet Sematary 23.81852$2100
Death Becomes Her3.21841$1700
A League of their Own2.71564$1700
Sister Act 2.51395$1800
Rapid Fire 1.91456$1300
Enchanted April1.6274$5800
Housesitter1.2810$1500
Out on a Limb1.1703$1600
Raising Cain1.0829$1200
TP:FWWM0.94692$1400
...
Bob Roberts0.318$38800???

So FWWM finishes in 13th place for total earnings or 11th place for 
$/screen. I am not counting Bob Roberts there, can it really have made
seven times what any other film made on a per-screen basis? I am
skeptical.

Last week FWWM finished in 8th place, or a very positive 4th
for $/screen ($2700). While this week's clari article mentions 
$/screen in noting the success of "Enchanted April" and "Bob Roberts",
it failed to do so last week for FWWM, saying simply that it
"failed to generate much heat". A bit of a bias in the reporting
there, I think.

Of course the box office results should not be our guide in
deciding whether FWWM is a good film, any more than TV ratings
decided whether we thought Twin Peaks was a good series. Still the
numbers are interesting.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Cole  (steve@sep.stanford.edu, apple!sep!steve)
Department of Geophysics, Stanford University, Stanford, CA 94305

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In alt.tv.twin-peaks, dagnall@violet.ccit.arizona.edu
(Robert A. Dagnall) writes:

> > Near the end of FWWM, just before we see someone sucking the 
> > creamed corn off the spoon, there's a shadowy shot of what looks
> > like a monkey's face.  I didn't pay enough attention in my
> > physical anthropology classes to identify the species, unfortunately.

As others have pointed out, scenes of a barking dog are also intercut in
various places.

> > I've seen no discussion of this!  I found it chilling, and I'm not
> > sure why - something to do with an impression that the spirits were
> > tied in with humans from *way* back, maybe.  What do you make of it? 

A long time ago, someone speculated that BOB and MIKE might have been
two animals who had "cut a deal with the Devil". By going on a killing
spree, they earned the right to human forms or spirit forms. (Remember,
there was some kind of connection between the convenience store and
veterinarian Bob Lydecker's office. I think his office was supposed
to be above the convenience store, just like the "meeting place".)

Anyway, I've kind of held on to this theory ever since it was first
discussed here on alt.tv.twin-peaks, and I really found the intercut
scenes of monkeys and dogs to be proof positive the theory was correct.
Deep in my subconscious, I'm sure I've somehow connected the mysterious
actions and motivations of BOB and MIKE with the mysterious actions of
my cats.

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To all the Twin Peaks fan in Sydney, Australia.  SBS will be showing
an interview of David Lynch this week.  Check your local TV guide for
the time.


Dennis Lu
School of architecture,
University of New South Wales,
Sydney, Australia.


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Perhaps this was mentioned last year, but it is news to me.  A very
interesting visual has been spotted in identical (or very similar) scenes
from both the Euroversion and the TP TV premiere.

This is not really a spoiler, but if you haven't seen any TP and you don't
want to hear about a little Bob sighting, then read no further.

Okay.  In the TV pilot, right near the end, Sarah Palmer is sitting on the
couch and has a vision/remembrance of Laura's bedroom.  She sees Bob crouched
at the foot of Laura's bed.  Then the camera shows her on the couch again
(I think she screams).  Look on the wall right behind her.  It's on the
right side of your TV screen.  It's a mirror, right?  Look closely.  Now
rewind tape & look again.  It's okay if you wish to freeze-frame it.  WoW.

The same image appears in the Euroversion:  immediately after Sarah's vision
of the gloved hand picking up the necklace.
I must give credit to Ken Brown, who noticed this while viewing the Euro-
version.  Later, we checked the pilot episode to verify.

****
I thought the new FWWM film was a bit helter-skelter when I first saw it,
but I knew I had to see it again.  Am I ever glad I did!  I now can highly
reccommend FWWM, not that anyone here needs to hear that.  Lots of things
that didn't seem to gel on first viewing made a lot more sense.

Also, I wish I hadn't ignored the Euroversion until now.  It's more than
just a different ending.  There are lots of clues which are alluded to in
FWWM, not to mention a wonderful scene with Andy & Lucy getting ready for bed.

There were 16 attendees at the theatre at 4PM on Saturday for FWWM!  And my
group consisted of 4 of these!

Jim
Jim Lester  (an employee)               Citicorp slash TTI
90405  (310)450-9111, x2209             lester@soldev.tti.com
 "Thunder is good, thunder is impressive,
  but it is lightning that does the work."  - M. Twain

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In article <17otp3INNkvp@agate.berkeley.edu> sally@anableps.berkeley.edu (S. A. Wilson) writes:

> >sally---yes that picture had to be the best, and most freaky part of
> >the movie--a. wilson

I noticed alot of people have been stating that they were "freaked"
out by the picture that Laura Palmer was given.  I didn't find it the least
bit "freaky".  It was interesting, very "Twilight Zoneish" if you ask me.

Overall I found the movie interesting but in the end not entirely
enjoyable.  Definitely not the best work Lynch has produced and my question
is whether he has anything left to offer.  Perhaps the Coen brothers 
should have made "Twin Peaks."...an interesting thought since I found
"Barton Fink" to be a much "freakier" film than anything which has come
from "Twin Peaks."


--tom



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Why didn't Lara Flynn Boyle play Donna in the movie? Did she have other
commitments, or did she not want to do the nudity? I'm sorry if this is
common knowledge but this has been bothering me since I saw the movie.

E-mail replies appreciated in addition to any post you might make.

Thanx.

-- C.A. Hardin |hardcle@elof.iit.edu |"Men Rule. | Being PO Box 805862 |hardcle@iitvax.bitnet |Rap Sucks. | weird Chicago, IL 60680|chardin@nyx.cs.du.edu |Eat Fatty Foods." | isn't USA |bw286@cleveland.freenet.edu|-Oliver Wendell Jones| enough

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