Fire Walk with Me — August 28, 1992–December 31, 1992

In article <1992Sep2.062740.4564@cs.mun.ca> georgen@pooky.cs.mun.ca (George Noel) writes:
>> >>Kay Carter <carterk@cgsvax.claremont> writes:
>>> >>>    2.  If "The Man Behind the Mask" is Bob behind the mask of the
>>> >>>posess), What exactly is the meaning of the paper mache mask?
>> >>
>> >>When the younger Tremond (or whatever his name really is) said that line
>> >>*with* the mask on, did anyone else get the feeling that somehow Bob and
>> >>him were related?
> >
> > Ok, young boy (grandson).. remember in the series Leland told Cooper that
> > this family lived at a certain address, and that Bob was one that lived
> > there and that he used to torment him, flick matches at him and say something
> > to the effect of "Want to play with fire, little boy?" or "Fire, walk with
> > me". Maybe the grandson represents Bob when he was alive (and young)?
> >
> >
>>> >>>    3.  Who is the Shaman from the David Bowie scence? (I liked him)
>> >>
>> >>I'm not sure who you are talking about, since there were two (?) new
>> >>characters in that scene, one fellow with the white face and long nose
>> >>(similar to the mask) and another guy who just sat and laughed I believe
>> >>I have no idea who either of them are, though.
>> >>
> > One of the new characters (man with beard raising his arm) I *think* could
> > be the spirit "Mike". The guy dancing around in the white mask *could* be
> > someone we haven't fully seen before. Ie: "The Magician".

[deleted]

> > The line that was quoted earlier about falling and falling faster in
> > space until you burst into flames.. can you remember from the series where
> > they show an Owl in space, a robed figure and then it bursts into flames?
> > This robed figure, could he be the person dancing around in the Bowie seen
> > who is The Magician?
> >  
> >  -=*George*=-

It's not the robed figure who bursts into flames -- what we see is
the triple-triangle symbol spinning toward the screen with a starfield in
the background.  When the symbol fills the screen, the screen bursts into
flames.

As for the dancing man in the room above the convenience store, did I
just imagine it or was he dressed exactly the same as the MFAP?

The dancing man had black, flat-topped (Eraserhead?) hair, a long
nose, and a face painted white -- but he wasn't wearing the mask.  It is
"Pierre Tremond" (aka the Boy Magician) who is most frequently seen with the
mask.  One aspect of the white mask which I'm surprised to see hasn't been
discussed, to my knowledge, is that it doesn't have any eyeholes; thus, one
is unable to see when wearing the mask.  If the grandson is the Magician, is
this what is meant by "In the darkness of future past/The Magician longs to
see"?

Come to think of it, could there be a connection between this white
mask and the white mask (which I presume was Caroline's death mask) that
Windom Earle sent to Cooper?

-- ____ "Okay, the situation is totally under control as of |____|____ this moment in time." -- Zaphod Beeblebrox ____| | Julian Fong: fong_jh@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu

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In article <37591@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> ww10aac@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Eddie the 'ead) writes:
:Many probably missed what the OAM said in the car to Leland and Laura
:when Leland was revving the engine, honking the horn and screaming:
:You stole the corn!  I had it canned... over the store!
:And Miss, the look on her face when it was opened.
:There was a closeness*
:Like the formica table top.
:The thread will be torn, Mr. Palmer!
:The thread will be torn!
:It's him!  It's your father!!

That line in question is:
There was a stillness.


ed



-- /\__Edwin Nomura -- enomura@ucsd.edu__________.:___________.____________/\ / \\ .:. . : . : / \\ / \\\ : .:: : : Fire walk with me :.. : . : / \\\ / \\\\..::..:::.:::::.:.:.....:::::...::..:...:::::.:.:::::.:....::.../ \\\\

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In article <1992Sep2.232654.827@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA> bross@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Brian J Ross) writes:
> >Would someone give me the name of that requiem at the end of the film?
> >Is it on the CD soundtrack?  I suspect that it isn't, as the film credits
> >mentioned some requiem recorded by a symphony orchestra, and there is no
> >mention of this on the CD.

Requiem in C Minor composed by Luigi Cherubini.
It isn't on the soundtrack *8^(


ed



-- /\__Edwin Nomura -- enomura@ucsd.edu__________.:___________.____________/\ / \\ .:. . : . : / \\ / \\\ : .:: : : Fire walk with me :.. : . : / \\\ / \\\\..::..:::.:::::.:.:.....:::::...::..:...:::::.:.:::::.:....::.../ \\\\

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In article <1992Sep3.042443.5217@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, sborders@nyx.cs.du.edu (Scott Borders) writes...
> > 
> >Has anyone heard of any plans to put TP (the series) into syndication?
> >After seeing FWWM, I would very much like to see the episodes that I
> >missed (and fill in some plot-holes in my memory).
> >                                   Scott

     In the general sense of the word "syndication," there are too
     few TWIN PEAKS episodes to syndicate it nationally - like
     ROSEANNE, COSBY or MARRIED...WITH CHILDREN.  The ideal number -
     and many times MINIMAL number of episodes needed to get 
     a full syndication like that is 100.  
     PEAKS has, what, 31 episodes (two hours counting as 2 episodes)?
     That may be ideal for LIFETIME, as Chinabeach is... or as
     BEAUTY AND THE BEAST was for THE FAMILY CHANNEL...

     Question is, WHAT cable network would run it?  The Sci-Fi
     channel, maybe (if that network ever happens...)?  TP's
     FIRSTRUN appeal became very limited as time went on...
     what do you suppose its REPEAT appeal would be to non-cult
     fans (i.e., us)...?

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In article <14740052@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM>, daq@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom) writes...

> >Yeah, if you mean, by good acting, the regular descent into tear
> >filled histrionics that are barely justified and not especially
> >convincing.  About half way through the movie I was hoping Leland
> >would hurry up and kill her so she would stop crying all the time.

     "Regular" as compared to what?  Barely justified?  If being
     regularly raped by your father since the age of twelve, not
     to mentioned being bombarded by BOB's desire to take away 
     your body and keep you prisoner in it for fifty or sixty years...
     Sure, I'd call that barely reason to cry once or twice... or
     be scared... or to lose your mind and go on coke binges to
     forget your pain (or do anything else that might lessen the
     pain)...
     Sure, I see your point almost immediately.

     As for convincing...  Well...  I guess it is pretty easy for
     us all to be familiar with what kind of person a victim of
     all the above would be like...

> >On the whole, I thought her acting job was pretty wretched, and
> >the only real reccommendation I could give is, 'go see the movie
> >if you want to see Sheryl Lee's breasts'.  Other than that, filming
> >this movie was a pretty big mistake as it tries to embody the
> >mystery of Larua P, and merely reduces her to a whiny and less
> >than sympathetic little twit.   It really may not be something
> >Lynch could have changed.  This series was driven and empowered
> >by the very mysterious nature of Laura.  They removed that.

     A little more than half of TWIN PEAKS occured AFTER Laura's
     murder was solved...  How does THAT embody her mystery?

     If you think Laura in FWWM was unsympathetic, I'd hate to
     be judged by you.  Whiny?  You'd whine a little if your
     father was molesting you.  

     What's the problem with a movie that isn't driven on the
     mystery of how she wound up dead, but driven by HOW she
     wound up dead?  I thought FWWM was not only driving, but
     also intense and, incredibly, suspenseful.  I think Lynch
     and Engles really turned our foreknowledge of the ending
     into a strength. 

> >And the teaser scenes in the series about the murder in the train
> >car are FAR more effective dramatically than what they actually
> >filmed for the movie.

     For sheer effect, I think I'd have to actually agree with you
     here.  Ronnette's flashbacks were goddamn scary, much more
     intense than what we saw in FWWM.  But the FWWM train car
     scene (while one of the most faulty in the film, I think)
     put a new and wonderful twist on it -- how Laura BEATS BOB,
     how even though she dies, it's in dying that she wins.  For
     Lynch, this is indeed a happy ending -- that is the gold
     in the FWWM version.

> >I was disappointed.

     I'm really sorry you feel that way, because I'm thrilled with
     FWWM... The explanations are shocking and interesting, the
     possibilities are open... and the "passion play" mythology --
     I think shown for the first time to their potential (as the
     snippets we got of LMFAP and BOB and Red Room stuff in the
     series was way too few and far between).  

     You know something I just realized, Pierre Tremond and David Bowie,
     and a couple of other people in the above-the-convenience-store
     meeting were wearing OWL masks... I thought they were cute little
     witch masks... but I think they were stylized owls...  Anybody
     else think this?

     Scott

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My wife says that this month's American Cinematographer magazine (the one
that hit the news stands 2-Sep) has articles featuring David Lynch and TP.
Check it out.

-- Joe Smith (408)922-6220 BTNA GNS Major Programs, TYMNET Global Network <jms@tardis.tymnet.com> P.O. Box 49019, MS-C51, San Jose, CA 95161-9019 CA license plate: "POPJ P," Married to the LB, Quantum Leap's #1 net.fan PDP-10, 36-bits forever! Humorous disclaimer: "My Amiga 3000 speaks for me."

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htilney@vax.clarku.edu writes:
> >
> >Remember when the dwarf said "I am the arm?" I think he somehow represents
> >the evil that MIKE lost when he lost his arm and was "purified." 
> >But when did this supposedly happen to MIKE? After Laura's murder?

Before, surely.  In the first episodes of the series we see the OAM going
about his business as a shoe salesman, within a few days at most after
Laura's death.  Someone who had recently cut off their arm would almost
certainly be in hospital.

Or is there a plot inconsistency about this?


-- -=- The Leather Goddess (aka Lesley Walker) -=- Wellington, New Zealand -=- lesley@cavebbs.welly.gen.nz Vote for MMP! DoD#258 -=- Yamaha XV1000 -=- Yamaha XS650 -=- Ford Cortina -=- Altos 586

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I saw the movie Saturday.  Last night, I decided to watch the first 
2-hour episode (yet again).

Curious, but in the opening shot of Josie.  They show what appears
to be a stylized, ceramic black dog.  Coincidence?  I think not.

Connie

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Anyone else mention yet that the wounds Cooper and Leland have
while in the lodge seem identical? Perhaps a by-product of
posession?


-Mike

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In article <KANDALL.92Sep1170900@globalize.nsg.sgi.com>, kandall@nsg.sgi.com (Michael Kandall) writes:
|> 
|> Why did Leland's hair turn white in the TV series?  I thought it was
|> because BOB had taken over his mind/body/soul.  Coop said he should
|> have realized earlier that BOB's grey, greasy hair, and the sudden
|> change in Leland's hair was related.

Josie, who died with BOB taking over her body, also had a drastic
change in hairstyle, too.  But Cooper's hair never changed, so that
last scene where BOB appears in his mirror doesn't follow the pattern
(but what ever did, in that show!!!).

Donna

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Bob proves the old saying that possession is nine-tenths of the
law :-).

Benjy
Virginia Tech
--------------------------------------------
How 'bout them ASCII files.  (Anon student in computer lab)

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In article 6097@transfer.stratus.com, kvk@questor.sw.stratus.com (Ken Koellner) writes:
> >I know that Bob getting shot in the basement isn't in the series.  It
> >doesn't fit anyway and was obviously an ultra-feeble attempt at a
> >quick and dirty ending in case they had to show the thing stand-alone.

The video first appeared in Europe _before_ ABC picked up the
series. That was how it was originally shot. Once ABC picked up the
series Lynch & Frost could write more into the story. Leland and BOB
have no connection in the original pilot video.

> >Was the part were Sara Palmer saw Bob in Laura's room in the series?
> >I remember a part in the series where there was a sketch of Bob that
> >they eventually showed Ronnette in the hospital.  Is that the sketch
>from Sara's description or did it come from somewhere else?

No. Again, this was how BOB was originally explained. In the series the
sketch of BOB was made from Cooper's description (in his dreams), not
Sara Palmer's.  When Leland later saw the poster (in the series) he
said ``I know this man...''  Again, this is the series plotline where
BOB inhabits Leland, not a physical person.

> >      -John Bitmap


-ian-

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moocow@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:

> >   I've spent the past 24 hours since seeing the movie pondering the imponderable
> >   and i was wondering if any of the good people out there would help me by
> >   sending or reposting the original shooting script. I remember something about
> >   it being posted here several weeks/months ago and i didnt read it then so
> >   as to save whatever surprises the film would hold.
> >   thanks and thanks,
> >   Xtian


I have a hard copy of that posting sitting here on my desk.  
I'm not sure if I still have it on disk somewhere.  I'll look.
But the persons who posted it are:

mj1078@taurus.cse.kyutech.ac.jp (mmanuel pece)
Kyushu Institute of Tech., Iizuka, JAPAN

&

st911277@pip.cc.branbeis.edu

Kevin


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I write:

> >   I have a hard copy of that posting sitting here on my desk.  
> >   I'm not sure if I still have it on disk somewhere.  I'll look.

Well I looked.  I can't find it.  On the print out it shows that
I named that file 'junk'.  (and everyone knows that
files with that type of name are extremely volitile)

Maybe those two people I named in the previous post can help out.

Kevin

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I still have several posts to read but I thought I'd toss my
two cents in.  I overall liked the movie.  It answered many
questions for me and yes gave me several others to think about.
That is what Twin Peaks is all about.  We will never know
everything but hopefully if the series continues we will
learn more.
        It was not a perfect film (several continuity errors
as many of you have posted-the call from James, the diary,
etc...) but I was entertained.
        I do feel you need the knowledge of the series to
"understand" the film.  You could still enjoy it on its own
but I feel the more fulfilling experience comes from watching
the show too.  I do find some of the negatives reviews hard to
take.  If somebody did not like it that is fine but if they did
not watch TP before they really did not understand FWWM.  I mean
I know the blue rose means project blue book or a case involving
the Lodges (either way the same thing) but I get that from my know-
ledge of the show.  I have yet to see that reference in one review
(other than those here).  Let them point out the continuity errors,
but none of the reviews mention any of them because the people
writing the reviews do not have enough knowledge of the show to
say.\
        I do hope Lynch does another and moves the tale forward
but it is doubtful Kyle would do another.

Todd

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Although I enjoyed the movie and want to see another made I think TP should
return to the small screen.  I think the best way would be to have a
yearly miniseries (something the length of the first season).  That way
each spring they could air a new 7-9 hours (one hour a week) works
well.  I like the old each episode is a day in TP.  That got lost in
FWWM.  Lynch could stay heavily involved (more so than doing a full
22 episodes a year) and we would not have to wait a year or 2 till
we get another movie.  What do people think?

Todd

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In <X5qHqB1w165w@ailanth.UUCP> tallman%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Robert Oliver) writes:

> >I saw a book today about Native Amercian symbolism. While it did not have 
> >anything on owls, it did have a small section on corn. I can't remember 
> >everything it said, but what sticks in my mind is that corn is a symbol 
> >for earth, life, and more specifically, Mother Earth. This makes me think 
> >that the inhabitants of the Black Lodge (aliens?) are consuming not only 
> >the souls of humans, but the very essence of the planet itself! Perhaps 
> >the battle between the two Lodges concerns not just a small area of one 
> >state, but control over the entire planet. You could also connect this to 
> >the ecological problems of we face today--it's all BOB's fault

It didn't have anything on Owls?  I'm amazed.  Owls are of tremndous
symbolic importance, especially in the NW.  As a quick rule of thumb,
Owls represent emotions and emotional events, and almost never in a
positive manner.  I'll look up some info I have at home regarding the
mythic interpretation of Owls in the NW Coast, but if I recall, owls
were feared.

Mike Sterling

PS:  If memory serves, according to one particular tribe (Kwaikuital?
Not Positive which) Owls were created from strong emotions of fear at
the time of death.  Hopefully I can find some of my old college textx
on the subject.  And I thought my Anthro classes would never be useful
:).
  

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YES! You're right, I just remembered it too.. And it was flashed earlier
in the movie too.  But I cannot remember when.. Gonna go see it again this
weekend mebbe...

---

Jeremy Toeman
412-268-4199     (anytime)



                 " Scobell --  We're not 'Schlag!! "

















The message ended a while ago, this is just my signature. Have a nice day!

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In article <1992Sep3.072915.3655@arizona.edu> ian@ece.arizona.edu writes:
> >
> >No. Again, this was how BOB was originally explained. In the series the
> >sketch of BOB was made from Cooper's description (in his dreams), not
> >Sara Palmer's.

The sketch was made from Sara's vision of him.  Coop intentionally
stayed away when they were questioning her, and putting together the sketch
(he explained this by saying ``I'm a strong [psychic emanator]''
I don't remember the exact word he used).  When shown the picture later,
he said ``That's the same man I saw in my dream.  The eyes should be closer
together'', or something like that.

-neilb

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I saved this posting a while back:

Article: 165 of alt.tv.twin-peaks
Path: scubed!network.ucsd.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!hri.com!noc.near.net!news.cs.brandeis.edu!ST911277@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
From: st911277@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: Sooting Script to TP: FWWM
Message-ID: <1992Apr26.193109.2280@news.cs.brandeis.edu>
Date: 26 Apr 92 19:31:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Apr26.193109.2280
Sender: news@news.cs.brandeis.edu (USENET News System)
Reply-To: st911277@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Lines: 183

Well I know y'all have been waiting for weeks, but I'm sorry.  This is the
first chance I've gotten to finally post some info.  I have in front of
me the shooting draft to "Twin Peaks 'Fire Walk With Me, Teresa Banks and
the Last Seven Days of Laura Palmer."  I'm now willing to share some of
it with you.  Ahead will be major spoilers, so beware.  Stop reading now
unless you are so hooked on the whole Twin PEaks thing that you cannot
wait a few measly months to see the whole movie for yourself.
By the way, some of you have asked where I got the script.  I got
it at a store in Harvard Square, Cambridge, MA.  I'm not exactly sure
how legal this is (I can't see how it could be legal) so I think I'll
refrain from revealing the name of the store.  OK, let's rock.




































Here we go:
OK well the script is divided into three parts, like I've read in previous
postings on the network.  The first section is medium length (pp. 1-40).
It involves the death of Teresa Banks.  Opening scene: "Teresa Banks' body
wrapped in plastic floating through Hells Canyon, drifting along in Wind
River."  Then it jumps to Gordon Cole and two new FBI officers, Agent Chester
Desmond and Sam Stanley.  Here is a really cool scene involving communication
between the agents using a code.  Stanley and Desmond go to investigate
Banks' murder.  Here they have trouble with the local lawmen (which was
probably what prompted Cooper to have his talk with Truman in the first
episode about who is really in charge when the bureau is called in).  It
starts out OK but then gets weird.  The ring comes back into play, there
is a mound of dirt, a golf ball (Leland liked golf) and finally one of the
agents disapppears, which is why Cooper is brought in.
Here we switch to Cooper.  He is talking with Diane, but it is unclear
whether we actually see her because she doesn't say anything (Man I hope we
get to see her).  Now it gets really weird.  There is an agent named Phillip
Jeffries, and from what I can tell, he is a time-space traveler (possibly 
the character that David Bowie will play).  He tells about a meeting above
a convenience store.  Then it switches to the meeting.  Everyone is there:
"In the foreground the Man from Another Place (Mike) and Bob sit at a 
formica table.  Behind them on plastic torn chairs huddle Mrs. Tremond and
her grandson.  Two Bigh Woodsmen with full beards sit quietly."  It says
the whole scene is subtitled, so I assume we have more of the backwords
talking.  They talk strangely for a while and then Mike and Bob say "Fire
Walk With Me" and then a circel of fire appears.  Bob crawls through it into
the Red Room and Mike yells and leaps in after him.
After this, the second and biggest part comes on, the last week of
Laura Palmer (pp. 40-124).  I haven't read all of this part, but I'll
summarize what I know for you.  Cooper was right.  Laura did have a bad
habit.  It turns out that that habit was very very bad.  In every scene
she takes a line or two of cocaine and any pills she can get her hands on.
Donna helps Laura with her homework, Bobby loves Laura, Laura sees James
behind Bobby's back, and Mike is going out with Donna.  Laura finds pages
missing from her secret diary.  She panicks and goes to see Harold Smith.
She tells him she thinks Bob took the pages and that Bob has been having
he since she was 12.  Laura says Bob wants to be her or he will kill her.
Next day: Mrs. Tremond and her grandson help Laura.  She goes home
and finds Bob looking for her diary in her room.  SHe runs outside.  Minutes
later Leland comes out of the house.  That night, a picture given to Laura
as a present from Mrs. Tremond magically reveals the Red Room.  In it
Cooper tells Laura not to take the ring, Teresa's ring, which has symbols
identical to those of Owl Cave.  We come out of the picture and see
Laura in bed.  She wakes and looks next to her.  "She  discovers Annie
Blackburn lying in bed with her."  She has blood around her mouth and she
says, "My name is Annie.  I've been with Laura and Dale.  The good Dale is
in the lodge and he can't leave.  Write it in your diary."  Aniie disappears
and the ring is in Laura's hand.
Next day: James says he missed Laura last night.  Leo abuses Shelly
and talks to Bobby about a drug deal.  Jacques Renault enters the deal.
Laura and Donna hitch up with a few truckers.  They see Ronette Pulaski
and Bob's voice tells Laura that Donna is going to get into the situation.
Laura is afraid for Donna and tries to get her out of there.
Next day: Ed and Nadine.  Truman and Josie.  Donna and Laura discuss
last night.  Leland and Gerard Gerard says to Laura, "It's him.  It's your
father," but she can't hear him because Leland is making so much noise with
his car.  Leland has flashback to when he was involved with Teresa with
Flesh World Magazine.  Teresa figures out that Leland is Laura's father
(probably why he killed her).  Laura has flashback and begins to put the
pieces together.  Leland has flashback to when he killed Teresa Banks.
Next day: Johnny's birthday party.  Ben gives cocaine to Laura, and
Laura says she would do more than just kiss him for it.  Night: Bobby and 
Laura driving and snorting.  They go into woods to pick up drugs.  A 
deputy from Deer Meadow brings the cocaine for Jacques.  Laura grabs the
coke, the deputy pulls out his gun, and Bobby shoots him.
Next day: Bobby discovers that the coke is really laxative.  Laura
talks to Jacoby.  Night: Sarah is drugged - sees white horse.  Bob enters
Laura's room and puts hand between her legs.  Bob turns into Leland.
She screams and passes out.
Next day: "Last morning": At breakfast table Leland asks Laura what
is wrong.  Laura says to stay away.  "He knows she knows and he knows
what he has to do."  "Last night": Laura says she hates asparagus at dinner.
She goes to see Bobby.  Laura goes home and snorts a line or three.  James
calls at 9:30.  He comes by.  Leland sees Laura jump on his bike.  They
drive.  Laura screams with agony, says "James I love you" and runs away at
the corner of Sparkwood and 21.  Laura runs to Packard Logging Road and
meets Jacques, Leo, and Ronette.  They go to Jacques' cabin.  Jacques
ties Laura and Ronette up.  Both are half-naked.  Waldo is screeching.
Jacques stradles Laura and hurts her.  Leo puts a One Eyed Jacks $1000
poker chip in her mouth.  Leland appears.  Jacques decks Leo.  Leland
grabs bottle and knocks out Jacques.  Leo takes off.  Leland rapes Ronette.
Laura gets hysterical.  Log Lady is off in woods listening.  "She hears]
distant screams.  The camera moves down her leg to reveal her tattoo, beet
red and burning."  Philip Gerard runs like a madman up to Jacques' cabin.
Leland marches the girls through woods.  Gerard arrives too late.  Leland
and girls arrive at train car.  Leland wraps twine around Laura's arm,
bending her arms back.  Laura sees herself turn into Bob.  Laura says, "
"No, you have to kill me...No you can't have me.  Kill me."  Gerard arrives
at train car.  Ronette opens the door a little, but then she is hit and
flies over Gerard and knocked unconscious.  Gerard listens to the sounds
of murder inside the car.  Laura screams.  Knife enters flesh.  Bob screams.
Bloody knife goes through the air.  Leland screams.  Gerard laughs and says,
"That's his own daughter you're killing."  Leland/Bob lowers the plastic
shrouded Laura into the river.  Leland stumbles into Glastonbury Grove.
He enters the Red Room.  Gerard and MFAP sit facing him.  Leland stops and
divides.  "One half becomes Bob - opaque.  The other half floats up and
becomes Leland - transparent.  Bob reaches up and grab's Leland's wound.
Bob heals Leland's wound.  Gerard and TMFAP speak together "Bob, you're
not going home without me.  I want all my garmonbozia (corn)."
Well that's the end of the second part.  Here's the bad news:  The
third part, the one we've all been waiting for, is 3 pages long.  I was
really pissed when I saw that.  I can only hope that as the filming
evolves, they will add length to it.  Well anyway, here it is.  Annie is
brought on stretcher to emergency room.  TMFAP says to Cooper in Red Room,
"Is it future? Or is it past?...Do you know who I am?...I am The Arm...And
I sound like this..."  He makes an Indian whooping noise.
Cooper: Where is the ring?
MFAP: Someone else has it now.
Cooper: That would indicate that it's the future.
MFAP: The later events have never been kept a secret.
Cooper: Where am I? And how can I leave?
MFAP: You are here and there is no place to go...But home!
Hospital Room-night
Annie: My name is Annie.  I've been with Laura and Dale.  The good Dale is
in the lodge and he can't leave.  Write it in your diary.
The nurse listens and takes Teresa's/Laura's ring off Annie's finger.  She
leaves and puts the ring on herself.
Hotel Room - night.  Doc and Truman watch bathroom door.
Truman: Coop...Coop...
Doc: Cooper are you alright?
No response.  Truman breaks open door.
Cooper lies on floor Mirroe is shattered with blood over it and sink.  Cooper
smiles strangely.
Cooper: I slipped and hit my head on the mirror.  The glass broke as it
struck my head.  It struck me as funny, Harry.  Do you understand me, Harry,
it struck me as funny.
Doc: You are going right back to bed.
Cooper: But I haven't brushed my teeth yet. (Smiles)
Black Lodge/Red Room - Laura is sitting in a chair.  As the end credits
begin...
We move in to see that Laura is sitting in Cooper's lap in the same chair.

The End.  Well I hope y'all enjoyed that.  If anyone has any questions or
would like to discuss the implications of the script, I'm here.  Also,
I am only reporting on the shooting draft.  I know a lot could change before
the final prduct is made.



----------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Stevensstevens@s3mars.scubed.com, stevens@seismo.css.gov

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In article <6123@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:
> >In article <1992Sep2.042729.19202@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, xxxx@peptide.ecn.purdue.edu (Name Redacted) writes:
>> >> Why did Hank always carry around a domino with 3/3 dots on it??
>> >> He sent a picture of it to Josie and said 'Get my message??'
> >
> >A lucky fetish, I suppose.  Note that it was NOT always the 3/3 domino.
> >They misplaced that one during the filming, and switched to another one
> >at least once, and possibly twice.


I always liked the net's reasoning behind the changing domino, that the
dots on the domino represented a kill. Unforturnately this was not the
case. Someone had asked Chris Milkey about the domino changing and he
said that someone had taken the original domino.

Sally--


> >-- 
> >
> >cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
> >OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...


-- And I'll see you//And you'll see me || Sally A. Wilson And I'll see you in the branches that blow || Spud Peel In the breeze,//I'll see you in the trees || sally@mica.berkeley.edu Under the sycamore trees (_Sycamore_Trees_ Lynch/Badalamenti)

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In article <37591@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> ww10aac@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Eddie the 'ead) writes:
> >Many probably missed what the OAM said in the car to Leland and Laura
> >when Leland was revving the engine, honking the horn and screaming:

   (stuff deleted)
 Thank you very much for posting that.  I couldn't make out one word
 of what was said during all the yelling and revving...
 
  Ken D.

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Hey, everyone.  I watched some episodes of TP in its first
season, but kind of lost track.  Last night  I saw the movie and I 
thought it was a masterpiece.  Less of a narrative film and more
of an avante-garde film.  Thats how Lynch started out anyway...remeber
his early films like "Gramma".  

Anyway, I'm looking to get EVERY episode ever aired (except for
the original pilot--which I have) on tape.  How do I get em?  Is
there an address I can order them by mail?  Or can somebody make
copies for me?  I'll pay or send you some FWWM promo stuff (like 
movie posters or banners or whatever--I worked at a movie theater).

So, please REPLY BY EMAIL, seeing as how this is probably old
news for most of you.  Thanks

Peace...................Amil

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In article <15263@umd5.umd.edu> jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog here...) writes:
   In article <37591@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> ww10aac@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Eddie the 'ead) writes:
   >Many probably missed what the OAM said in the car to Leland and Laura
   >when Leland was revving the engine, honking the horn and screaming:

   >The thread will be torn!

   "And I know about the stitches with the red thread." -- the OAM in the
   Euroversion.  Connections, anyone?...  :-)

Any connection to the use of a different colored thread to indicate an
altered garment (code for drugs) in Lil's dance at the start of FWWM?

-30-
Bob

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In article <9209030133.AA04570@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> C491153@MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU (John Schultz) writes:

   spoilers ahead...














   Everyone keeps referring to Leland's wound in FWWM, but is this really a
   wound?  I don't recall him being injured at all in the train car.  I thought
   that the blood that BOB removed from Leland (and turned into garmonbozia)
   was Laura's blood.

I may have been the first to call it this.  Frankly, I, too, thought
it was Laura's blood while watching the movie (althought I wondered if
it might be Leland's, since it was all bunched up around his waste, as
if from a wound (Hmm, isn't it around the same place as Cooper's
wound?))  However, the script describes BoB's actions as ``Bob heals
Leland's wound''.  I need to go back and look at the movie, though, to
see if the action there supports Leland taking a wound.

-30-
Bob

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Here be spoilers...


In article <BtzCM0.G47@acsu.buffalo.edu> v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey) writes:

No, I'd agree that BOB doesn't kill just for fun...  but he's "eager
for fun..." so I'd guess that's a large part of it - he kills for
the garmonbozia, obviously...  And the One-Armed Man/Little Man From
Another Place DON'T kill for the same reason: because the
garmonbozia is addictive, and the OAM has broken the addiction,
"I took off the arm..."  after "...I saw the face of God..."

But, it's not clear that the OAM's story of salvation is true or just
a ruse.

Anyway, I am not quite sure why Leland/BOB kills Teresa, but 
the blackmailing Leland angle is a good one... but why would
BOB care if Leland was being blackmailed?  It's no big deal to
him/it.  

He might have wanted to keep using Leland as a vessel, so that any
compromise of Leland's position might crimp his style.  Also, since
Leland represents his physical body, he might take any attack on or
threat to Leland personally.  He only abandoned Leland in the series
when he had been discovered and Leland was useless to him.

       BOB gets Laura's garmonbozia, which he must split
with OAM/LMFAP (because they were once partners... a pre-existing
deal or one of the rules of the Lodge people?)...

Or an indication that Mike was lying about giving up his killing ways.

 Remember the
episode which opened with Leland's interrogation for the murder
of Jaques Renault?  That long track throuh a dark cavernous
region with Owls hooting, girls (Laura... Maddy?) screaming,
and little voices coaxingly chanting "Maddy... Maddy... Maddy?
Maddy..."  We realize that the track has been out from a slot
wall in the interrogation room, but on another level, we've been
given admittance to Leland's own head... 

I think the voice was saying ``Daddy'' and represented Laura's voice.
There were other indications in the series that Laura may have been
seeking help beyond the grave.  In either the pilot or another early
episode, there is a pan of the TP mountains and a girl's voice, saying
very softly, ``Help.''  If these were from before Laura attained
Satori (perhaps with Cooper's help), these may represent her being
trapped in the purgatory of the Twin Peaks universe (the Black Lodge?
The Waiting Room?)

-30-
Bob

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In article <1992Sep2.084258.5488@cs.mun.ca> georgen@pooky.cs.mun.ca (George Noel) writes:

    I mean when Laura enters "The Bar" in Canada to meet Jacques and Ronnette all

    you see is sex, drugs and rock and roll. I mean girls dirty dancing on the
    floor like they were doing, stripping down, guys licking the breasts of
    women and women being "eaten out" (Laura..under the table) and then have
    Jacques (or someone) saying "Welcome to Canada" didn't seem too pleasing. I
    for one would like to know of any bars in Canada which are like *that*. :-)

Ever been down Jonge Street in Toronto?  Or the environs?

-30-
Bob

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Hmmmnnnn....
Maybe, as someone else posted once, maybe BOB is really after
Cooper, that the murders are not for any other reason but to involve Cooper
in the mess.
Look: there is evil in the woods. Twin Peaks is one of those rare places
where the lodges poke out into the real world, and the black lodge has been felt
by the spiritually tuned of the town (which seems to be a high number). So, the
good folk of the town form the BookHouse Boys to defend against the black lodge.
Bob struggles against them, but is held in check.
Knowing that good-guy Cooper would be welcomed into the BHB, perhaps
BOB lures him there, waits until he is accepted, and then takes control of him.
Now he is in on the BHB meetings and secret discussions.....eh? Perhaps that 
is why the series (and the story, really) ended on that note: BOB had won
the first round, he had gotten what he wanted. The next phase is BOB trying to
destroy all the resistance to himself while Cooper tries to break out.
Just thoughts, replies welcome..


-Jeff Somers

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In article <2SEP199220064293@violet.ccit.arizona.edu> dagnall@violet.ccit.arizona.edu (Robert A. Dagnall) writes:

   Near the end of FWWM, just before we see someone sucking the 
   creamed corn off the spoon, there's a shadowy shot of what looks
   like a monkey's face.  I didn't pay enough attention in my
   physical anthropology classes to identify the species, unfortunately.

   I've seen no discussion of this!  I found it chilling, and I'm not
   sure why - something to do with an impression that the spirits were
   tied in with humans from *way* back, maybe.  What do you make of it? 

Yes, I, too, got the impression it was a monkey (or other primate)
face.  But things were too dark and close-up at that point for me to
make out much more.  (Too bad you can't bring your remote into the
theater and have it work.)  By the way, this adds interesting new
meaning to Ben's comment to Audrey: ``Audrey, you make the rest of us
look like primates.''

-30-
Bob

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I just could NOT believe my eyes when I read this so-called review for
the Twin Peaks movie in today's paper.  Apparently it's part of a
"Teen Movie Critic" review column they have every week.

Basically let me point out some of the things this "kid" wrote!

1)  He referred to BOB as "Rob".

2)  He was reassured by the paper's "senior" critic  Bill Brownstein that
the movie was bad to begin with.  Already this kid's opinion of the movie
has been biased!

The movie up here is rated at 16+ and the theatre we went to required 
proof of age.  So I'm wondering just how old this "Teen Movie Critic"
was when he went to see this movie!  And frankly I find it inappropriate 
for the movie to have been reviewed by a teen!  Because this means that
this movie can be seen by teens under 16, which it isnt.

ALSO, there was a picture accompanying the article.  It was a photo of
James on his bike with Laura standing by him.  The caption?  (get this)

"Biker Bobby (Dana Ashbrook) talks with Laura (Sheryl Lee) in the movie."

ARGH!!! I just can't believe this article was even published!

If anyone reading this post in the Montreal area knows who is to be 
contacted about such mistakes, PLEASE let me know!


Thanks!


Eva


(ignore the following .sig)





--
Andre Berthiaume  |  "Sometimes you're the windshield,
 |   Sometimes you're the bug"
    berthiau@iro.umontreal.ca    |
 |       Dire Straits, The Bug

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Hi folks!  Just saw FWWM a second time last night and would like to share
a few thoughts.

SPOILER BELOW!


I jumped clear out of my seat when Laura was grabbing Harold and we're flashed
with the image of Laura with white face and black lips.  Later, just after
Leland pushes Laura's plastic wrapped body into the water, there's a very
quick flash of Leland with white face and black lips.  Today, I recalled that
in the series, Wyndom also had this problem with his complexion (I think when
he was doing something to Leo).  So, what does this represent - the incarnation
of evil in some outwardly physical nature?

I'm convinced that the ring has a deeper meaning than has been discussed so far.

Following the ring's journey...
-Teresa Banks has ring.
-Teresa Banks' arm goes "dead".
-Teresa Banks is murdered.
-Someone removes ring from her body (presumably after the body is discovered).
-Agent Desmond finds ring on dirt mound under trailer.
-Agent Desmond disappears.
-LMFAP has ring ("With this ring, I thee wed.") in Laura's dream.
-Cooper tells Laura not to take ring in same dream.
-Laura wakes up with "dead" arm and ring in same arm's hand.
-OAM is wearing the ring when yelling at Leland.
-OAM throws the ring into train car as Bob attempts to possess Laura.
-Laura puts on ring - Bob/Leland cries "No, Don't make me do this!"

OK, now Leland takes the half-heart necklace off Laura's body and OAM has 
already left the scene, so Laura should still have the ring on.  However, 
by the time Cooper shows up to inspect the body, the ring is gone.  Did
Bob/Leland take it before wrapping her up or did the OAM retrieve it from
Laura's body (he was in the hospital when Cooper arrived)?

And in the script, but cut from the movie, Annie shows up in the hospital
wearing the ring.  What is it about that ring...

Roger
cimu03!smith@att.att.com





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In article <KWH.92Sep1121515@GLOBE.EDRC.CMU.EDU>, kwh@CS.CMU.EDU (Kevin
Hartmann) wrote:
>> > >   like the giant did. Also, the dwarf wears a red suit-- am I reaching,
>> > >
>> > >   or what?
> > 
> > I choose 'what'.   I believe the "Waiting Room" is purgatory.  In purgatory
> > God is absent but angels need not be.  We of course see at least one angel 
> > (Laura's guardian angel) there.  Lucifer (the fallen angel) would be another.  
> > One more would be Cooper's guardian angel (the giant).  

Interesting idea. The waiting room is purgatory in the RC mythos. I think
you've got something there. More below.
 
> > Laura's guardian angel is a quite classical one.  She puts up with quite 
> > a lot before she gives up trying to help Laura.  Yet when Laura has gone 
> > through enough pain and suffering in purgatory, she returns.
> > 
> > The abandonment of Laura's angel is symbolized when the angel fades in the 
> > picture.  This happens due to Laura's choosing.  It's when she decide's to
> > let Bob enter her.

I think you're wrong about this.  Laura never decided to let BOB enter her.
In fact, in the shooting script she specifically asks Leland to kill her so
it won't happen. Also, in his deathbed speech, Leland claims L was too
strong for them.
I think the disappearance of the angel is a symbol of her dispair and maybe
a warning to repent and ask for help before it is too late, but not that
the angel has actually abandoned her.  Note however, that Ronette's angel
only appears when she repents and starts praying.  You have to ask for
help. Laura didn't, probably because she was so far gone, it never occured
to her.

Now, why does the angel appear in the waiting room?  I think it is because
of Coop.  Coop is the Christ figure that decends into the underworld in
order that others might be saved.  I believe this is actually part of one
of the creeds 'who decended into hell' etc. In going after Annie he is more
like Orpheus, but he is also Christ like.
 
> > I remember an angel helping someone in FWWM also.  But I can't remember the
> > situation.  Does anyone else?

Catherine after returning from her disappearance after the fire.
 
-Rich Haller

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In article <1992Aug29.192850.17273@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> sborders@nyx.cs.du.edu  
(Scott Borders) writes:
> > 
.> In the Twin Peaks saga, we have now seen the beginning (FWWM) and
> > the middle (the TV series).  Will we see an end? 
We still haven't seen the beginning!!....what about Agent Cooper's early days  
at Germanton Friends? And the whole thing between him and Earle and Caroline.  
No, I think we need a prequel to FWWM!!

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In article <BtzCM0.G47@acsu.buffalo.edu> v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey) writes:
>> >>Saw the movie for a second time last night.  Spoilers...


> >     Anyway, I am not quite sure why Leland/BOB kills Teresa, but 
> >     the blackmailing Leland angle is a good one... but why would
> >     BOB care if Leland was being blackmailed?  It's no big deal to
> >     him/it.  

It depends how much Teresa really knew about Leland/BOB.  She might have
just been blackmailing Leland about his sleeping around et cetera.  That
would be enough to make Leland want to kill her, especially if egged on
by BOB.  (It does seem interesting that BOB can only make people do things
that they already have some desire -- however repressed -- to do.  One of
the reasons for Leland killing Maddy certainly seemed to be him not wanting
her to leave.)

But do we really know it was LELAND she was blackmailing?

Teresa had the ring.  This meant that she too had contact with the Lodges.
Could it be that she knew about BOB being in Leland, and also that BOB was
overstepping some rule of the Lodge?  We know that there was some kind of
split between MIKE and BOB (maybe BOB was keeping all the pain and sorrow
for himself or something), and perhaps Teresa was going to turn BOB over
to some REALLY bad dudes in the Lodge.

Hence, the murder.  Hence, the letter under the fingernail.  Hence, the
entire sorry story gets started.

How's that?


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In article <1992Sep2.060600.4353@cs.mun.ca> georgen@pooky.cs.mun.ca (George Noel) writes:
> > My question is, who placed the ring there? My guess is that the One Armed
> > Man lived in that trailer..

Well, the trailer was lived in by "an old woman and her grandson"...  the
Tremonds/Chalfonts, it appears...

> > why I say the One Armed Man lived there was because of the "Lets Rock" on
> > the car windshield Cooper saw . The LMFAP says "Lets Rock!" and my guess is
> > that "Lets Rock!" was what was on the tatoo that the OAM had on the arm that
> > he removed after seeing the face of God.

Well, if the tattoo was the same as BOB's (the tattoo we saw in the Euro-
video), it said "FIRE walk with me".

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In article <29AUG199202093571@zeus.tamu.edu> wkl5819@zeus.tamu.edu (LEVERICH,  
WILLIAM KENT) writes:
..What a waste of five bucks.
Heh, be glad you're not on the East Coast.  It's SIX big ones to see a move  
here after 5:00!!

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In article <1992Sep2.062740.4564@cs.mun.ca> georgen@pooky.cs.mun.ca (George Noel) writes:

> >Aha! Some things are starting to make sense here..

>> >>When the younger Tremond (or whatever his name really is) said that line
>> >>*with* the mask on, did anyone else get the feeling that somehow Bob and
>> >>him were related?

> > Ok, young boy (grandson).. remember in the series Leland told Cooper that
> > this family lived at a certain address, and that Bob was one that lived
> > there and that he used to torment him, flick matches at him and say something
> > to the effect of "Want to play with fire, little boy?" or "Fire, walk with
> > me". Maybe the grandson represents Bob when he was alive (and young)?

Or LELAND when he was young... the spirit of "childhood innocence", which
(as those of us who really remember our childhood know) is a romantic lie --
hence the Pinocchio-nosed mask.  Children often know a lot more than they
let on, and Pierre DEFINITELY knows a lot of the darker things...



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In article <3299@carroll1.cc.edu>, lzett@carroll1.cc.edu (Leslie D
Zettergren) wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > A note on our August adventure:
> > 
> > 
> > We overnited at the North Bend Motel on Main Street --
> > just next to Mt. Si (TP).  Their rates are considerably
> > less than the published rates at the Lodge near the falls.

I should hope so. The cheapest rooms at the lodge are something like $125.

-Rich Haller

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In article <KWH.92Sep3093705@GLOBE.EDRC.CMU.EDU> kwh@CS.CMU.EDU (Kevin Hartmann) writes:
> >I have a hard copy of that posting sitting here on my desk.  
> >I'm not sure if I still have it on disk somewhere.  I'll look.

Even if no one wants to post all 200-odd pages of the script, could at the
very least some kind soul type in:

* the complete Phillip Jefferies scene

* the OAM's speech to Leland

* any references to The Ring

* whatever clues could shed light on the good/evil nature of the One-Armed
Man

... or things like that?  There are some questions that really need
answering, if only to get the newsgroup volume down.  :-)

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In article <1850k8INN7ah@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, bp092@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
(Mike Ogrinz) wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > Anyone else mention yet that the wounds Cooper and Leland have
> > while in the lodge seem identical? Perhaps a by-product of
> > posession?

The similarity certainly struck me. However, if you look at the shooting
script that is now incorporated into the timeline, you will see that
originally, there are shots of Leland stuffing a bloody towel in his shirt
and dropping it along with some pages from the diary at Glastonbury Grove
before he enters. Hawk found them in the tv series, remember?

On the other hand the timeline states 'Bob heals Lelands wound'. I wish the
owner would check and see if that is literally what was said or whether it
was an interpretation that got added after the person who had done the
posting saw the film in Japan.

The shots that follow BOBs act strongly suggest that it represents the
sorrow, etc. that BOB managed to generate in the traincar.  Remember that
Mike says, "Do you understand the parasite? It attaches itself to a life
form and
feeds.  Eh.  BOB requires a human host.  He feeds on fear...and the
pleasures."

BOB was also Mike's 'familiar', hence the LMFAP demanding a share, in fact
all, the garmonzobia.

-Rich Haller

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In article <H11FqB2w165w@zitt>, zitt!joe@dogface.austin.tx.us (Joe Zitt) writes:
> > 01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:
> > 
>> >> So, I guess the Canadian tourism industry is in for a boom after
>> >> that Pink Room scene ;-)
> > 
> > Come to think of it, how far from Canada is Twin Peaks supposed to be? I
> > thought it was rather far away from it, but characters seem to get to and
> > from Canada rather quickly.
> > 
> > 
Five miles south of the Canadian border, twelve miles east of the State line.

Mike (you can start making that fresh pot of coffee *right**now*)

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In article <rhaller-030992124455@rhaller.cc.uoregon.edu> rhaller@oregon.uoregon.edu (Rich Haller) writes:

   On the other hand the timeline states 'Bob heals Lelands wound'. I wish the
   owner would check and see if that is literally what was said or whether it
   was an interpretation that got added after the person who had done the
   posting saw the film in Japan.

That's what the script says.

-30-
Bob

``I am not here.  I am not saying this.''

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In article <15263@umd5.umd.edu>, jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog here...) writes:
> > In article <37591@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> ww10aac@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Eddie the 'ead) writes:
>> >>Many probably missed what the OAM said in the car to Leland and Laura
>> >>when Leland was revving the engine, honking the horn and screaming:
> > 
>> >>The thread will be torn!
> > 
> > "And I know about the stitches with the red thread." -- the OAM in the
> > Euroversion.  Connections, anyone?...  :-)
> > 

And the Blue Rose was sewn to Lil's dress with... red thread. Do you think
that's part of Cole' code that Chet and Sam (LOVE those names) missed?
Mike

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In article <1850k8INN7ah@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bp092@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike Ogrinz) writes:
> >
> > 
> >Anyone else mention yet that the wounds Cooper and Leland have
> >while in the lodge seem identical? Perhaps a by-product of
> >posession?
> >
> >
> >-Mike


Weren't they also similar to Caroline's, and the transient's wounds.
The transient, the one found at the police station, bound and gagged
at the chess table, looked like Coop (wasn't the actor Kyle's brother),
and the transient also had the same surname as Caroline's maiden name.
Maybe the would is not so much a by product of possession, but similar
to a sacrificial wound.

After reading the Coop autobiography I also wondered if the murder
of Laura also was a lure to get Coop to TP for the conjunction of
Neptune and Saturn, which marked some occurence involving the two
Lodges...

Sally--


-- And I'll see you//And you'll see me || Sally A. Wilson And I'll see you in the branches that blow || Spud Peel In the breeze,//I'll see you in the trees || sally@mica.berkeley.edu Under the sycamore trees (_Sycamore_Trees_ Lynch/Badalamenti)

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In article <1992Sep2.070553.4924@cs.mun.ca>, georgen@pooky.cs.mun.ca (George Noel) writes:
>> >>
>>> >>> i can't even remember what bowie was talking about in his part. 
> >  Thread.. I have heard that mentioned a few times now.. in the European
> >  Pilot episode where the OAM calls Cooper and says he knows about the
> >  red thread and letters under the nails, Gordon's "mother's sister's girl"
> >  had a piece of red thread missing from her dress.. is that what the OAM
> >  was referring to when he shouted it out while driving? Or did he mean
> >  that sometime the thread (loop of time) will be broken. Maybe if Laura
> >  never had to take the ring (Like Cooper warned her) it would have put an
> >  end to the loop?>
> > 
With all our talk about threads of conversation...
I wonder if Lynch knows/ is lurking about alt.tv.twin-peaks....

Just a thought.
Mike

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In article <1992Sep2.084258.5488@cs.mun.ca>, georgen@pooky.cs.mun.ca (George Noel) writes:
> > In article <H11FqB2w165w@zitt> zitt!joe@dogface.austin.tx.us (Joe Zitt) writes:
>> >>01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:
>> >>
> > 
> >  Twin Peaks is supposed to be really close to the Canadian border. Remember
> >  that One Eyed Jacks is also in Canada (from what I understood). I don't
> >  know about anyone else but, I am from Canada and I didn't particularly like
> >  the impression they were trying to paint on Canadian bars, or Canada itself.
> >  I mean when Laura enters "The Bar" in Canada to meet Jacques and Ronnette all
> >  you see is sex, drugs and rock and roll. I mean girls dirty dancing on the
> >  floor like they were doing, stripping down, guys licking the breasts of
> >  women and women being "eaten out" (Laura..under the table) and then have
> >  Jacques (or someone) saying "Welcome to Canada" didn't seem too pleasing. I
> >  for one would like to know of any bars in Canada which are like *that*. :-)
> > 


Well, I'm Canadian too, and I thought it was a riot. I mean, when you think of 
it, Canada has an international reputation a lot like TP. Lots of scenery,
lots of trees, the Rockies, quite rural, and the people are all nice, 
friendly, maybe a little on the dull side. Mind, I'm not saying Canada is *like*
that, but I think that's what a lot of overseas people believe, or so I suspect.

Therefore, I think it makes sence that Canada, like TP, is idyllic and quiet
on the surface, but is hiding lots of dirty little secrets. I wonder if Lynch
has ever been to Canada.

Just a thought.
Mike

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In article <1992Sep1.152224.10890@news.uit.no> perk@stud.cs.uit.no (Per-Ivar Knutsen) writes:

   Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
   Path: cc.tut.fi!news.funet.fi!sunic!aun.uninett.no!news.uit.no!stud.cs.uit.no!perk
   From: perk@stud.cs.uit.no (Per-Ivar Knutsen)
   Keywords: GIF
   Sender: news@news.uit.no (USENET News System)
   Organization: University of Tromsoe, Norway
   Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 15:22:24 GMT

   Anyone that knows where to find/have lots of GIF pictures from the TwinPeaks 
   series. Especially interested in the female acters (Sherilyn Fenn)...


   Please R E P L Y sooooooon... (Waiting eagerly!)


try nic.funet.fi
/pub/pics/gif/pics/tv+film/twinpeaks

they usually have something
--

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
          Muisti palaa, ATK-osaston musta paiva.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

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I wonder if we aren't going about this "Coop in the Lodge" thing all wrong.
Think about it... When Laura enters the Lodge after her death, there's Coop,
with a reassuring hand on her shoulder, almost steadying or guiding her as she
makes the transition. It's almost as if his whole reason for beong in the lodge
is to guide her in there. 

This would, I think, make the whole TP timeline circular, begining
with LP's death and ending in Coop's entrapment. Larus Palmer dies, Coop
investivates, and is brought to the lodge to help out when... Laura Palmer
dies.

Another possibility is that Coop wasn't so much trapped by BOB so that 
he (BoB) could do evil, but that the Giant/LMFAP conscirpted him for "damage
control" of BoB's latest caper. Perhaps Coop is in the Lodge not so much 
because his courage is imperfect, but because his courage is *so* perfect he
is needed as a "good guy in the Lodge". Maybe Annie was mistaken when she said
"the good Dale is trapped in the Lodge".

One other thing. Did anyone else notice the different ways the members
of the room above the Convienence Store interacted with people in the real
world:

The Tremonds/Chalfonts interacted with people in their own plane (What we 
call the "real world")

Assuming the Woodsman is the Log Lady's husband, he interacts through the Log
and his wife.

Bob interacts through bodily possesion

The LMFAP interacts in the opposite manner from the Tremonds: Instead of 
going to people in the real world, he brings them to his plane of being.

The Giant interacts with people of this plane through visions.


Maybe BoB is then angry because his mode of interaction requires the permission
of a real world person, and this anger has turned him viscious. ALso, this 
might make him the least powerful of all of them.

The LMFAP, on the other hand, can (maybe)whish people to an from the lodge at 
will, either physically or in dreams. He is therefore the *most* powerful of
the bunch. Another possibility is that he physically controlls the "dominant"
arm of a person, and can therefore force them to do his bidding.

ANyone have any thoughts on this? (and do you notice how many people have 
been saying this of late ;-) 

Mike 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
I have a fondness for big hair, and the industrial strength heavy-duty 
environment-mangling aerosol hair spray that creates it. 

Laura LeMay
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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I think Leland definitely had a wound.  If I remember correctly from the
series, the killer wrote the note which said "FIRE WALK WITH ME" in blood.
And Albert(?) determined that it wasn't Laura's or Ronnette's blood so it
must have been the killer's blood.  Therefore it must have been Leland's
blood.  I must say I was very dissappointed that we didn't get to see
him writing the note or the note at all.  After all, wasn't this where
the phrase originally came from?

Also on Leland's wound...if it was just blood from Laura the Bob/Leland
could probably clean it off in the real world w/o too much trouble.  But
if Leland had some kind of wound it would be harder to hide esp. from Sarah.
So BOB probably has the power to heal inside the lodges.  Also he wouldn't
want his vessel to die from bleeding.
-- ^ Steven Greco ^ (aka Windom Earle) slg20427@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu "Color Me Amazed"-Agent Albert Rosenfield greco@suna0.cs.uiuc.edu

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In article <15286@umd5.umd.edu> jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog here...) writes:
> >Even if no one wants to post all 200-odd pages of the script, could at the
> >very least some kind soul type in:
                           ^^^^

What would really be great is if someone with a
hard copy and an OCR scanner would scan it and
post the result.

If anyone does do this, please accept my
*thanks in advance!!!*

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  I guess the Ben-Horne-as-Laura's-father (and killer) and Josie-did-
not-shoot-Cooper notions are gone for good.

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The following post contains MAJOR spoilers for Twin Peaks:Fire Walk With Me. 
It is intended to be read by people who have already seen the movie.

Do not read this if you are thinking about seeing the movie!  Go see it
yourself, while it's still in the theaters.


I saw TP:Fire Walk With Me, last weekend.  I didn't know what a lot of the
symbolism was supposed to mean, so I thought I would ask if anybody else had
some ideas.  Things I don't totally remember are marked (?).

After the movie, I went home and watch the TV series premeire.  I was suprised
both by how well the movie leads into the premeire, and how the premeire
managed to introduce just about every character and theme that would be fully
explored later in the series.

As I write this, I think: Does anybody know except Lynch?  Should I get a life
and give up TP? 

1. The angel.

Laura has a (cutesy) picture of a family having dinner around a table.  There
is an angel in the picture near the table.  Laura appears to like the picture.

Laura sees the angel disappear and reappear in the picture (?).  At the time
of her death the picture is shown again, and the angel disappears.

In the train car, an angel appears and saves Ronette Pulaski.  The angel
appears later in the red room (?)

So what is this supposed to mean?  Ronette isn't as "bad" as Laura was, so she
deserved to be saved by some heavenly power, while Laura did not?  And why
would the angel appear in the red room?


2. The one-armed man/arms.

The one-armed man manages to make it to the train car, open it up, and pull out
Ronette Pulaski.  He doesn't go in, though, and he doesn't help Ronette away
from the train car, as we see later when Leland leaves her for dead when he is
carting away Laura.

Maybe he doesn't go in because he's afraid of Bob??? But why didn't he help
Ronette away from the train car?

The one-armed man appears in the red room with the dwarf.  They say something
praising Bob (?).  But isn't the one-armed man supposed to be a good guy???

Also, regarding arms, we find out that Ronette & Laura both have their left (?)
arms go numb before they are killed.  The one-armed man cut off his arm "when
he saw the face of God" (from Cooper's dream).  Towards the end of the second
season, various people's hands are twitching uncontrollably. Hmmm...

Anybody understand what the one-armed man was saying to Leland, when Leland was
stuck behind the logging truck?

3. Mrs. Duchamp and her grandson

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I don't know if this is mentioned in the script or not, but noticed a
_very_ fascinating thing on my second trip to FWWM:

During the Phillip Jeffries scene, when watching the People from Another
Place (alien seems like such a lame tag for them), the young Tremont has
a mask which has been commented on extensively, and appears in other scenes.

Watch closely, though.  He holds the mask up, turns it to cover his
face, then turns it away again.  We get only a split-second view of his
face when he turns the mask away, but this time it is heavily bearded!
I think it was Mike, but I would love independent verification!  Are
Mike and the young Tremont the same?

Jeremy


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I saw a book today about Native Amercian symbolism. While it did not have 
anything on owls, it did have a small section on corn. I can't remember 
everything it said, but what sticks in my mind is that corn is a symbol 
for earth, life, and more specifically, Mother Earth. This makes me think 
that the inhabitants of the Black Lodge (aliens?) are consuming not only 
the souls of humans, but the very essence of the planet itself! Perhaps 
the battle between the two Lodges concerns not just a small area of one 
state, but control over the entire planet. You could also connect this to 
the ecological problems of we face today--it's all BOB's fault!

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iott@rtsg.mot.com (Joel K. Iott) writes:

> > The following post contains MAJOR spoilers for Twin Peaks:Fire Walk With
> > Me.  It is intended to be read by people who have already seen the
> > movie. 

Not to be rude, Joel, but you missed an *awful* lot -- I suggest you see it
again.  In the meantime, this should clear up a few of your questions:

> > In the train car, an angel appears and saves Ronette Pulaski.  The angel
> > appears later in the red room (?) 

The angel is Laura.

> > The one-armed man manages to make it to the train car, open it up, and
> > pull out Ronette Pulaski. 

Mike doesn't pull Ronette out of the car -- Leland *throws* her out.

> > Also: did Leland kill Jacques Renault outside the cabin or not???

No, just knocked him senseless.

> > At the end of the movie, a woman is shown in the red room.

Laura again.

> > Someone shows up next to Laura in her bed with her throat cut.

Annie, telling Laura that the Good Cooper was trapped in the Lodge (as shown
in the series finale) and warning her to write that down in her diary.

--
Lazlo (lazlo@triton.unm.edu)

"No date by eight? Inflate! Inflate!"
-- Dr. Bronner's All-Faith-One-Church Multi-Purpose Mint Castile Jelly

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In article <1992Sep3.224341.5741@rtsg.mot.com>, iott@rtsg.mot.com (Joel K. Iott) writes:
|>Xref: nntpd.lkg.dec.com rec.arts.movies:98538 alt.tv.twin-peaks:19735
|>7. Who is that, anyway?
|>
|>At the end of the movie, a woman is shown in the red room.  It is a blonde
|>woman with large curls in a black dress.  Is this Laura with a new hairdo ?  It
|>isn't Annie, but it might be Caroline (from the TV series finale).
|>

   I haven't seen anyone suggest this yet, but everyone with whom I attended
the movie agreed that it was Donna.  She always was Laura's guardian angel...

------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm saying this, not Digital.  Don't hold them responsibile for it!

Michael J. Grier                           Digital Equipment Corporation
(508) 496-8417                             mjg@ktbush.ogo.dec.com
Stow, Mass, USA                            Mailstop OGO1-1/E16


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In article <1992Sep4.005157.25659@athena.mit.edu> jhbrown@athena.mit.edu (Jeremy H Brown) writes:
> >During the Phillip Jeffries scene, when watching the People from Another
> >Place (alien seems like such a lame tag for them), the young Tremont has
> >a mask which has been commented on extensively, and appears in other scenes.
> >
> >Watch closely, though.  He holds the mask up, turns it to cover his
> >face, then turns it away again.  We get only a split-second view of his
> >face when he turns the mask away, but this time it is heavily bearded!
> >I think it was Mike, but I would love independent verification!  Are
> >Mike and the young Tremont the same?

I thought it was that monkey that they've shown a couple of times... anyone
else see it that way?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kirsten Starcher"All I want is that second of time
kirsten@morgan.ucs.mun.ca        and a few square inches inside of your mind."
- Joyful Noise
This post brought to you by the letters f, y, v, and the number i.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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jhbrown@athena.mit.edu (Jeremy H Brown) writes:
> >Watch closely, though.  He holds the mask up, turns it to cover his
> >face, then turns it away again.  We get only a split-second view of his
> >face when he turns the mask away, but this time it is heavily bearded!

No, it's the monkey (the same one we see at the end).

--
 ___            _    _     _  _        _
(  _) ___ ___ _( )__( )_  ( )( ) o  __( ) _  ___  ___  ___
(___)(_) (__=) (_)_ (_)_   (__) (_)(_((_)(_'(__=)(_) _(_)
Brett J. Vickers (bvickers@ics.uci.edu)

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In article <la87mmINNqfc@news.bbn.com> ingria@BBN.COM writes:
> >In article <KWH.92Sep1121515@GLOBE.EDRC.CMU.EDU> kwh@CS.CMU.EDU (Kevin Hartmann) writes:
> >
> >   I remember an angel helping someone in FWWM also.  But I can't remember the
> >   situation.  Does anyone else?
> >
> >An angel appears to Ronette and apparently cuts her bonds.  And
> >Catherine claimed that an angel appeared to her after the mill fire
> >(in the series).
 WoW.  I'm planning to see FWWM a second time, and I'd better see all these
scenes I'm reading about here.
 Is it possible Lynch released 6 slightly different versions of FWWM to the
theatres?  An extra scene here, a missing scene there.
 One more thing: in Laura's Secret Diary, didn't she say Bobby shot a man
who was chasing her (after she had nicked a bag of coke from the dealer's
house)?  She & Bobby were in the back of a pickup truck and left him dead
by the side of the road.
--Jim
Jim Lester  (an employee)               Citicorp slash TTI
90405  (310)450-9111, x2209             lester@soldev.tti.com
 "Thunder is good, thunder is impressive,
  but it is lightning that does the work."  - M. Twain

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In article <1992Sep3.192852.14481@Princeton.EDU> oberst@hitam.Princeton.EDU 
(Daniel J. Oberst) writes:

> >In article <1992Aug29.192850.17273@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> sborders@nyx.cs.du.edu
> >(Scott Borders) writes:
 
>> >> In the Twin Peaks saga, we have now seen the beginning (FWWM) and
>> >> the middle (the TV series).  Will we see an end?

> >We still haven't seen the beginning!!....what about Agent Cooper's
> >early days at Germanton Friends? And the whole thing between him and
> >Earle and Caroline.  No, I think we need a prequel to FWWM!!

Maybe the second movie (if it ever gets made) could have a similar
structure to FWWM: a half-hour introduction depicting the Pittsburgh
events, thus introducing Caroline and Windom Earle; then a jump
forward to post-series events. That way, there might be a tiny chance
that people who haven't seen the series or FWWM could understand
what's going on (if there's no chance of that, no one will want to
finance it, I think).

How about "Twin Peaks: I Saw the Face of the Man Who Killed Me"?

Yeah, I know, "Get a life!"... :-) 
/Ola

--
Ola Torstensson, dat91oto@ludat.lth.se
No part of this article (including this .sig) should be taken seriously.

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kirsten@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Kirsten Starcher) writes:
: In article <1992Sep4.005157.25659@athena.mit.edu> jhbrown@athena.mit.edu (Jeremy H Brown) writes:
: >
: >Watch closely, though.  He holds the mask up, turns it to cover his
: >face, then turns it away again.  We get only a split-second view of his
: >face when he turns the mask away, but this time it is heavily bearded!
: >I think it was Mike, but I would love independent verification!  Are
: >Mike and the young Tremont the same?
: 
: I thought it was that monkey that they've shown a couple of times... anyone
: else see it that way?
: 

Yes, I also say it was the monkey, that was also shown at the end. What it 
means ?? Good question !

/Sture

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jim writes:

> >   In article <la87mmINNqfc@news.bbn.com> ingria@BBN.COM writes:
> >
> >   >An angel appears to Ronette and apparently cuts her bonds.  And
> >   >Catherine claimed that an angel appeared to her after the mill fire
> >   >(in the series).
> >
> >    WoW.  I'm planning to see FWWM a second time, and I'd better see all these
> >   scenes I'm reading about here.
> >    Is it possible Lynch released 6 slightly different versions of FWWM to the
> >   theatres?  An extra scene here, a missing scene there.
> >
> >   --Jim

I concurr with ingria@BBN.COM that an angel did cut Ronette's bonds.  

And I'm amazed that someone remembered the angel at the mill,
but wasn't Shelly the one who claimed that an angel saved her?
This angel being Catherine?  There could be a number of reasons why Shelly
didn't divulge the identity of the 'Angel'.  

I looked in the timeline and allusions, but the scene isn't described
in great detail.  I'll have to look on tape, unless someone beats me
to it.

Kevin

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Speaking of angels I found this in the quotes file:

Cooper:  But she wouldn't let them in.
Leland:  She said she'd die before she'd let them... so they made me kill her!
         Oh, God, have mercy on me!  What have I done!  What have I done!  Oh,
         God!  _I_love_her_!!  I love her, with all my heart!  My angel,
         forgive me....

Maybe this use of the word 'angel' means nothing, but the entire dialogue during
Leland's confession is quite informative.  It may help some (as it did me), to
go read it.

Kevin


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lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:

> >iott@rtsg.mot.com (Joel K. Iott) writes:

>> >> The following post contains MAJOR spoilers for Twin Peaks:Fire Walk With
>> >> Me.  It is intended to be read by people who have already seen the
>> >> movie. 

> >Not to be rude, Joel, but you missed an *awful* lot -- I suggest you see it
> >again.  In the meantime, this should clear up a few of your questions:
> >
>> >> In the train car, an angel appears and saves Ronette Pulaski.  The angel
>> >> appears later in the red room (?) 

> >The angel is Laura.

No, no, no. The angels are not Laura, Annie, or anyone else we know. 
The two angels are not even the same actress. The angels were simply
protector spirits, guardians. 'you fall faster and faster and the angels
can't help you...' Laura was falling too fast. Ronette started praying
and an angel showed up for her. 

Frankly, I thought the inclusion of angels in this saga simply muddled
the issues more. Just pulls in yet another major myth cycle 
(judeo-christian) That only *appears* to have some meaning. 


>> >> At the end of the movie, a woman is shown in the red room.

> >Laura again.

This seemed to be the wrap up from the train car. Ronette was not falling
so fast that she couldn't be saved in the 'real' world. Laura was
targeted by BOB for attack, so she died rather than open up, and that
was her triumph. She defeated BOB, and her angel came to show her (or us)
that it all turned out OK. SHe's fine. Saved. Just like Darth Vader.
--
==============================================================================
Steven J. Koster                      |Internet: kosts@calvin.edu
Calvin College Video Productions      |Compuserve: 72020,3342
Grand Rapids, MI 49546   USA          |(616) 957-6335 vox   (616) 957-8551 fax

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In article <7scFqB3w164w@whitebase.ukp.com>, salmieri@whitebase.ukp.com (Gregory Salmieri) writes:
> > 01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:
> > 
>> >> I just realized something. The Little Man From Another Place is Mike.
>> >> Think about it: he "spoke" through the One Armed Man in the Lodge. I 
>> >> would therefor say that he is "possessing"  the OAM in the same way BOB
>> >> possesses Leland. We know the being possing the OAM is Mike. Therefore,
>> >> the LMFAP is probably MIKE. Neat, eh?
>> >> So, I guess the Canadian tourism industry is in for a boom after
>> >> that Pink Room scene ;-)
>> >> Later, 
>> >> Mike (no, not *that* Mike!)
> > 
> > Thay can't be the case because then coup would see mike as the lmfap in his 
> > dreams, he doesn't he sees them seperately. 

BUt he also saw BoB and Leland seperately. I don't think he ever saw the OAM
in the Lodge, did he?

> > Also if the LMFAP is the arm 
> > that containes the tatoo and the eavel part of MIKE then he can't be Mike as 
> > a hole. 

I think you might be confusing MIKE the spirit with Phillip Gerard, the man.

> >I think that the seen in the convienence store with the "pain and 
> > suffering was supposed to take place befor the rest of the film and before 
> > mike cut his arm off and became good. Rembur in coops dream "We le it." Mike 
> > lived in the store with bob BEFORE turning good. Does anyone rembur if he 
> > had the arm in that sean.


I don't remember seeing the OAM in the room with the formica table at all. 
was he actuslly in the room?


Mike

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In article <1992Sep4.050141.4110@ttinews.tti.com>, lester@soldev.tti.com (jim) writes:

> >  One more thing: in Laura's Secret Diary, didn't she say Bobby shot a man
> > who was chasing her (after she had nicked a bag of coke from the dealer's
> > house)?  She & Bobby were in the back of a pickup truck and left him dead
> > by the side of the road.


She did. I remember reading it. so is this a) a continuity error, or b) did
Bobby kill TWO people?

Mike (WHERE'S MY GODDAMN HOT WATER?)

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In alt.tv.twin-peaks, 01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:

> > Saw FWWM Friday night (it was in a neighboring city). Here are my thoughts:
> > 
> > The film was beautiful. I loved it. 
> > 
> >Let's face it, the critics are panning it because they are fools with no souls.

Yes, this is clearly the case.
> >They all have feet of clay, how could they possibly understand a brilliant 
> >piece of work like that? They want movies like _Ghost_ or _Home Alone_, stupid 
> >movies (apologies to anyone who liked these flicks) with a plot your average 
> >five year old would sneer at. I don't care that the critics panned it, because 
> >all they want is mediocre anyway. If Twin Peaks hadn't been the trendy thing 
> >to watch back in the beginning,they'd have panned it then; the only reason 
> >they didn't was because everyone else said it was great.

BULLSHIT!  What about those of us who loved and cherished the show, but
dislike the movie.  Your rhetoric is convenient to your philosophy,
but is essentially overblown nonsense.

> > 
> > JOKES?
> > 
> >The critics sneered at __EraserHead__, until Lynch became trendy. Then they 
> >decided he was a visionary, and their opinion of that film changed, or at least
> >they kept their philistine opimions to themselves. Now they are just moving with
> >the rest of the flock. It's that simple.

It is that simple if you feel forced to stick complicated ideas into
simple little boxes.

> > putrid little brains into third grade oatmeal. Quite frankly, all the critics 
> > can go straight to hell. I thought the film was magic. It was wonderful.

You seem to take criticism awfully personally.

> > 
doug

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In alt.tv.twin-peaks, ww10aac@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Eddie the 'ead) writes:

> > Well hot damn, it seems very few people like this movie.  I saw it with my
> > roommate and we both loved it!!  Enough to see it a second time today.

On the contrary,  it is getting little but rave reviews
here.

doug

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In article <1992Sep3.174346.7309@ac.dal.ca> 01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:
> >
> >And the Blue Rose was sewn to Lil's dress with... red thread. Do you think
> >that's part of Cole' code that Chet and Sam (LOVE those names) missed?
> >Mike

  "Her name was Magill, and she called herself Lil, but everyone knew her as
Nancy"    -- The BeatleS


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kosts@ursa.calvin.edu (Steven Koster) writes:


>>> >>> In the train car, an angel appears and saves Ronette Pulaski.  The
>>> >>> angel appears later in the red room (?)  
>> >>
>> >> The angel is Laura. 
> >
> > No, no, no. The angels are not Laura, Annie, or anyone else we know.  

I really hate to disappoint you, Steven, but you're *wrong*.  There's a
still of the "angel-in-the-train-car" scene in the booklet of the soundtrack
CD and it's definitely, unmistakably Laura.

Go watch the movie again.

--
Lazlo (lazlo@triton.unm.edu)

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In article <6123@npri6.npri.com> eric@npri6.npri.com (Eric Williams) writes:
> >In article <15222@umd5.umd.edu>, jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog here...) writes:
>> >> They misspelled "Garmonbozia", called Michael Anderson's character the
>> >> "Man From Another Planet" (maybe they were thinking of "Eraserhead"?),

> >Actually, I read the review before going and checked the end credits...
> >I could swear that in the film LMFAP is indeed from a Planet, not a Place...
> >Could have been a typo by the titlers...  Anyone wanna double check?

I still had enough presence of mind following the finale to check when I
saw it the first time.  It said "Place".  And I think there was no "Little"
in his name, it was just "Man From Another Place".

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In article <1992Sep4.115353.7332@ac.dal.ca> 01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:
> >In article <1992Sep4.050141.4110@ttinews.tti.com>, lester@soldev.tti.com (jim) writes:
>> >>  One more thing: in Laura's Secret Diary, didn't she say Bobby shot a man

> >She did. I remember reading it. so is this a) a continuity error, or b) did
> >Bobby kill TWO people?

c) RETCON.  The diary, like Coop's autobiography (which said that Coop was
the one who found the letter under Teresa's finger) and the Access Guide
(which says that you can't get TV in Twin Peaks... guess fans of "Invitation
to Love" were hallucinating the whole time), aren't officially considered
accurate.  Remember, in the show itself, the excerpts from the diary that
they read weren't quite the same as in the book.

I guess the books have the same relationship to TV/movie TP as the Star Trek
novels do to the TV show.  Accept them if you want, but the producers feel
free to ignore them when convenient.

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In article <1992Sep4.115353.7332@ac.dal.ca>, 01sybok@ac.dal.ca wrote:
> > 
> > In article <1992Sep4.050141.4110@ttinews.tti.com>, lester@soldev.tti.com (jim) writes:
> > 
>> > >  One more thing: in Laura's Secret Diary, didn't she say Bobby shot a man
>> > > who was chasing her (after she had nicked a bag of coke from the dealer's
>> > > house)?  She & Bobby were in the back of a pickup truck and left him dead
>> > > by the side of the road.
> > 
> > 
> > She did. I remember reading it. so is this a) a continuity error, or b) did
> > Bobby kill TWO people?

I wouldn't call it a continuity error. I would call it a decision to do the
movie version differently from the Diary.  They also handled the TB
investigation differently from the Autobiography. In it, it is Coop who
discovers the letter under the nail and there is no mention of the other
agents. While having them isn't inconsistent, having them finding the
letter is.

As Emerson said (but is widely misquoted, so I will probably disgrace
myself as well): "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."

A true continuity error is how they handled the chess positions and the
domino in the series, (though in the latter case, apparently the original
domino disappeared from props).

-Rich Haller

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Does anyone know if there is going to be a novelization of the movie
coming out?  According to my girlfriend, who works at a bookstore, no such
book is listed as coming out soon.

BUT...there is a book called "Twin Peaks Revisited" coming out in October
maybe.  Does anyone know anything about this book?
-- ^ Steven Greco ^ (aka Windom Earle) slg20427@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu "Color Me Amazed"-Agent Albert Rosenfield greco@suna0.cs.uiuc.edu

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DAVID LYNCH'S PREQUEL OF CONTEMPT

     * TWIN PEAKS: FIRE WALK WITH ME. (R)  All the eccentricity,
       and none of the electricity, of David Lynch.  With Sheryl
       Lee, Moira Kelly, Ray Wise, James Marshall.  Directed  by
       David Lynch.  At area theaters.


By John Anderson
   STAFF WRITER

   IF YOU PLAN on seeing "Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me," bring a book.
   You won't be able to read it in the darkened theater, of course, but
it should still provide more entertainment than what's on the screen.  
Feel the binding.  Flip through the pages.  Wear it on your head.  By 
the time this movie - and calling it that presumes, wrongly, that it
moves - ends, playing with your book will seem like high adventure.
   David Lynch's long-gone and unlamented [Fucker!] TV series "Twin
Peaks" began with a two-hour pilot that was truly exciting television, and
from there it was all downhill.  Lynch seemed to lose interest.  Other
directors of the series managed to capture Lynch's obscurity without 
turning out anything particularly compelling.  By the time it was
cancelled, the series seemed to be daring viewers to try to watch it.
Which they couldn't.  With "Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me," a "prequel"
to the series, Lynch is making the same challenge of moviegoers.
   Anyone who managed to watch the show knows who killed Laura Palmer 
(Sheryl Lee), the young woman in plastic wrap whose murder was the focus
of the first season [Don'tcha love how authoritatively pretentious they
are - especially when they're wrong?].  But Lynch wants to tell us again.  
He also either is trying to justify the series or punish us for not having
watched it.  Characters and bits of plot line appear and disappear without
explanation; there are so many hallucinations you give up trying to
determine what the different characters are or are not seeing; time is an
elusive quality.  But that wouldn't bother a director who makes a movie
based on a canceled TV show so he can tell us a story whose ending we 
already know.
   The film starts with the murder of Theresa [sic] Banks (Pamela Gidley),
a young woman who worked with Laura as a prostitute.  Two FBI agents (Chris
Issak and Kiefer Sutherland) are sent to investigate.  Then they [...um,
wrong again, John...] disappear strangely and are never heard from again.
Then it's a year later and we meet the ill-fated Laura, who's cocaine-
addicted, a part-time prostitute and increasingly hysterical.  It's never
quite clear in the film whether her drug problems are caused by her sex
problems or vice versa, but abuse by her father Leland (Ray Wise) who is
apparently possessed, is contributing to her nervous, self-destructive
state.  But thinking one will care what happens to her or why by the time
the movie ends is the height of presumption.  [This guy can't even allow
himself to write a synopsis that might pique people's curiosity - not that
this synopsis is even close to the truth].
   Lynch has proved in the past [Ah... here, he justifies avant garde
cinema, and justifies himself as a true arthouse critic - NOT!...] that
he's capable of producing exciting and disturbing films - "Eraserhead"
[what was that stuff about the difference between hallucination and
reality], "Blue Velvet" [that stuff about bit characters appearing and
disappearing without justification], and "Wild at Heart" [Glinda...Elvis...
Willem...who cares?].  But the pretensiousness [look who's talking, guys!]
of "Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me," and what can be construed only as 
utter contempt for its audience, threaten to make David Lynch irrelevant.II


     [Notice how they get all upset and offended when they...don't
      get it?  Maybe that should have been rewritten a bit (at least):
      "...and what can be construed only as utter LOYALTY TO its 
       audience..."  Sounds more true-to-the-facts that way, I think.]

     -Scott Gorcey











es?...].
But the pretensiousness [look who's talking] of "Twin Peaks: Fire Walk

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kwh@CS.CMU.EDU (Kevin Hartmann) writes:
> >I concurr with ingria@BBN.COM that an angel did cut Ronette's bonds.

Well, the angel didn't explicitly come down with a knife and cut her bonds,
but after seeing the angel, Ronette noticed that her bonds were undone.
I think it's pretty safe to assume there's a connection.

--
 ___            _    _     _  _        _
(  _) ___ ___ _( )__( )_  ( )( ) o  __( ) _  ___  ___  ___
(___)(_) (__=) (_)_ (_)_   (__) (_)(_((_)(_'(__=)(_) _(_)
Brett J. Vickers (bvickers@ics.uci.edu)

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lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:
> >I really hate to disappoint you, Steven, but you're *wrong*.  There's a
> >still of the "angel-in-the-train-car" scene in the booklet of the soundtrack
> >CD and it's definitely, unmistakably Laura.

You kidding?  That's not Laura.  I've got the same picture and I'm looking
at it right now.  No resemblance.

Furthermore, the angel in the car was played by another actress as
Steven noted.  Read the credits.

--
 ___            _    _     _  _        _
(  _) ___ ___ _( )__( )_  ( )( ) o  __( ) _  ___  ___  ___
(___)(_) (__=) (_)_ (_)_   (__) (_)(_((_)(_'(__=)(_) _(_)
Brett J. Vickers (bvickers@ics.uci.edu)

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WALDER@rzmain.rz.uni-ulm.de (Walder Matthias) writes:

> >Dear fellows,

> >does somebody of you know if there's a soundtrack of FWWM available?

> >I really liked the music - especially in this canadian club...

It is available here in the USA on CD and tape, I saw it in a local
store just last weekend.


-- David De Trolio - (detrolio@andromeda.rutgers.edu) __________________________________________________ "We're sailing on the wind of better days"

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What follows in the culmination of re-watching the entire series, seeing FWWM,
and gathering up the best theories from the net:

SPOILERS A GO-GO
^L



 
THE FOLLOWING ARE MY "CONCLUSIONS TO DATE".  THEY ARE FAR FROM SET IN STONE.
 
I think Catherine put the fish in the percolator as a prank for Pete/Josie.
 
I thought The white horse meant someone drugged, not death.  I since have
been set straight, referring to a Lynch interview, that it is a pooka,
signifying death.
 
I think Jacques told Cooper what he actually BELIEVED happened that night
at the lodge.  He and Leo argued so much, and there was So MUCH coke.  I
don't see a continuity error here.
 
The mask that the "child" wears is an owl mask.  It has no eye holes.
It seems to be reinforced by the quote "The magician longs to see".
 
That was Annie in bed with Laura.  (Some have said it looked like Ronette).
 
It seems that whomever puts on the ring, dies.  There also has to be a
correlation between the ring and Laura's necklace.  Both ended up over
a pile of dirt.  The only theory I have for this is that BOB USED to use
the ring, but upon Laura's death, kept the ring and left the necklace.
This causes a problem with Maddy's death (no symbol or dirt at all), but
could indicate that the posessor of the NECKLACE would be the next vicitm.
This, of course, ended up to finally be Cooper.
 
What happens if BOB does manage to spell out his entire name under
fingernails?
 
Mike can not physically stop Bob or doesn't really want to.  Is it
possible that BOB IS the magician and MIKE the familiar?  (This would
indicate that OAM has been covering for Bob instead of helping cooper)
 
That was the shadow self of Leland in the lodge.  Shadow Leland says he
didn't kill Laura, which we know to be true.  The real but posessed
Leland did it.
 
Time runs backwards in the lodge (futures past).  Cooper's gunshot wound
reappears and Annie ends up in bed with Laura "before" she enters the lodge.
Cooper helps Laura in the lodge after she dies.
 
There is a theory going around that Cooper is caught in a time loop and
that the TV series references to a ring, refer to this unbroken circle of
time.  Now, If we look at the time loop as a cirlce, starting where Cooper
enters the Black Lodge, the circumference is 25 years. If Cooper was indeed
caught in a time loop, this would explain why so many of his dreams are
accurate, he's lived them before. Another bit of evidence is that the angel
that unties Ronette is none other than Laura!! (For proof, look at the
still picture in the soundtrack booklet).  If the time loop theory is
correct, that could not have been the good Annie that came back out with
Cooper, otherwise she wouldn't be able to go backwards in time (in the
lodge) and end up in bed with Laura at the beginning of the loop.  This is
also reinforced by the fact that Laura told Cooper she would see him again
in 25 years, indicating the length of the time loop.
 
I whole heartily agree with the addiction theme (that SOME of the "aliens"
are addicted to pain in suffering like Laura is addicted to cocaine).
Remember that the old lady said to Donna, "I didn't order creamed corn,
take it away".  A reference to the fact that she did not partake in the
substance.
 
Bowie/Jefferies was definitely in "Time phase".  He witnessed a meeting
of the "aliens" but escaped before he could be imprisoned in wood.  This
seems to relate to the "thread" that is hinted at by the "aliens" in the
speech:
 
OAM yelled to Laura when Leland was reving the engine, honking the horn and
screaming:
 
:You stole the corn!  I had it canned... over the store!
:And Miss, the look on her face when it was opened.
:There was a stillness.
:Like the formica table top.
:The thread will be torn, Mr. Palmer!
:The thread will be torn!
:It's him!  It's your father!!
 
If we continue with the time loop theory, the saving of Laura Palmer (or
another, see below) by Mike or anyone else, would break the loop.  What
Mike would gain by this is unknown.  Continuing one step further, if
Ronette has been dying in these time loops and Laura saved her THIS TIME
through the loop, the circle was broken in the train car.  In which case
Laura finally goes to the white lodge (after all these loops) and this time
the real Annie escapes from the lodge instead of the evil one.  Now Cooper
would have to be rescued from the lodge before he passes the time of his
entrance.  The Sheriff waited about a day for Cooper to reemerge, so they
would have about that much time to rescue Cooper before he moves backwards
to before he left.  If they fail to rescue him, he would become like
Jefferies, lost in time.
 
I believe that the picture in Laura's room, the meeting room where we saw
all the "aliens", and the room above the convenience store are all the same
room.
 
Wood is the aliens method of containment/imprisonment.
 
Now ...  Here's the best "chain of command" theory I have come up with:
(I am not buying the two Mike (one good/one doppleganger theory)
 
I think Bob, Mike's familiar (owl) turned on Mike.  This is when Mike
realized the errors of his ways and cut off his arm (LMFAP).  The happened
long before Teressa Banks' murder. He physically cut off his arm as a so he
could be sure that he would never revert back to his old ways.  See, LMFAP
seems to possess ARMS (probably the dominant one). Arms go dead, remember?
So, LMFAP can no longer control any of Mike's actions, Mike has no arm
LMFAP can possess.  LMFAP need not possess Bob's arm, Bob already does
dirty work for him.  LMFAP is the one with the addiction. I don't know
whether the LMFAP PHYSICALLY possesses the arm of his minions to insure
their obedience, but this could be true as well. * THE kink in this theory
and most others (including the time loop theory) is WHY was Mike there
when Bob gave the garbonzia to LMFAP? Was he watching LMFAP partake and
wishing he could help?  Or was he waiting for his portion?  (Even at the
start of the time loop theory, Mike already had only one arm)
 
 
If there was indeed a time loop and it WAS broken, this would actually
JUSTIFY most of the continuity errors! (haha!)
-- Adam Goldberg ! Ask me how IOWA STATE UNIVERSITY is goldberg@iastate.edu ! censoring my usenet access!! ..!uunet!iastate.edu!goldberg ! >>I don't need a BIG BROTHER!!<<

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sally@anableps.berkeley.edu (S. A. Wilson) writes:

> >Am I the only one who believes that the lack of humor during the
> >TP segment of the film worked. I thought that since the theme
> >was more or less "Laura Palmer's decent into hell" that humor did
> >not fit. I think that the intense darkness, the somberness of that

You are correct, and I feel exactly the same way.  Humor didn't
have much place in this story, and for those who "needed the humor"
to enjoy the movie, sorry.  No film handles situations exactly
the way you'd want (more humor, less humor), and I'd rather see what
the writers/creators have in mind than "fans whining for funny parts".

> >of humor, the whole first part was damn funny, and really work to
> >get me off guard for the TP section of the movie, and thus, at least
> >for me made the TP part even more intense.

agreed - I can't get my mind off some parts of this movie,
interconnections and all.  brilliant.  it was like having a
disturbing nightmare, and you slowly recall more bits and bits
of it every day.

> >Sally--Flame away--A. Wilson

::j


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In article <1992Sep3.165652.1595@scubed.com> stevens@scubed.com (Jeff Stevens) writes:
Spoiler sightings...


A thousand thanks to the person who posted the script summary of FWWM.
(Ten thousand thanks to someone who would post the complete uncut script,
but we can't have everything...)

Anyway, a bunch of details caught my eye.

> >It involves the death of Teresa Banks.  Opening scene: "Teresa Banks' body
> >wrapped in plastic floating through Hells Canyon, drifting along in Wind
> >River."

No TV getting smashed.  Odd.

> >there
> >is a mound of dirt, a golf ball (Leland liked golf)

No golf ball in the final version.  Hmm.  Also, the Jefferies scene comes
after Desmond's disappearance.  I'm surprised that the summary doesn't so
much as mention the Tremonds.

> >She wakes and looks next to her.  "She  discovers Annie
> >Blackburn lying in bed with her."  She has blood around her mouth and she
> >says, "My name is Annie.  I've been with Laura and Dale.  The good Dale is
> >in the lodge and he can't leave.  Write it in your diary."  Aniie disappears
> >and the ring is in Laura's hand.

See?  It _IS_ Annie!  Nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah!  :-)

> >Laura and Donna hitch up with a few truckers.  They see Ronette Pulaski
> >and Bob's voice tells Laura that Donna is going to get into the situation.
> >Laura is afraid for Donna and tries to get her out of there.

WHOA.  This is new.  Wonder if this ties in with Leland's near-attack on
Donna in 2009?

> >Leland has flashback to when he was involved with Teresa with
> >Flesh World Magazine.  Teresa figures out that Leland is Laura's father
> >(probably why he killed her).  Laura has flashback and begins to put the
> >pieces together.  Leland has flashback to when he killed Teresa Banks.

So this was explicit in the script, and only implied on screen?

> >"Last night": Laura says she hates asparagus at dinner.
> >She goes to see Bobby.  Laura goes home and snorts a line or three.  James
> >calls at 9:30.

So all this happened as it was told in the pilot.  Even the asparagus.
Personally I thought the "Goodnight, sweetheart" line they used was much
more heartbreaking -- totally missed by non-fans, but for those like me
who had just rewatched the pilot it sends chills up your spine.

> >Leo puts a One Eyed Jacks $1000
> >poker chip in her mouth.

Good, they didn't miss that.

  Leland appears.  Jacques decks Leo.  Leland
> >grabs bottle and knocks out Jacques.  Leo takes off.

Still no shirt.  Sigh.

> >Log Lady is off in woods listening.  "She hears]
> >distant screams.  The camera moves down her leg to reveal her tattoo, beet
> >red and burning."

Why oh why did they cut this?

> >Gerard listens to the sounds
> >of murder inside the car.  Laura screams.  Knife enters flesh.  Bob screams.
> >Bloody knife goes through the air.  Leland screams.  Gerard laughs and says,
> >"That's his own daughter you're killing."

Is this the action of a reformed spirit?...

> >Gerard and TMFAP speak together "Bob, you're
> >not going home without me.  I want all my garmonbozia (corn)."

"You're not going home without me"???  Hmm...  theories, anyone?

> >Cooper: Where am I? And how can I leave?
> >MFAP: You are here and there is no place to go...But home!

"There's no place like home"?  What is this, Wild at Heart???  :-)

> >Hospital Room-night
> >Annie: My name is Annie.  I've been with Laura and Dale.  The good Dale is
> >in the lodge and he can't leave.  Write it in your diary.
> >The nurse listens and takes Teresa's/Laura's ring off Annie's finger.  She
> >leaves and puts the ring on herself.

Now what on earth does that mean?  Is this another form of "it is happening
again"?

> >Black Lodge/Red Room - Laura is sitting in a chair.  As the end credits
> >begin...
> >We move in to see that Laura is sitting in Cooper's lap in the same chair.

And that's it?  Has anyone noticed the two BIG things missing from the
script?

No monkeys.  AND NO ANGELS.

No ascent to heaven scene either.  Maybe the producers felt the movie was
too bleak as it stood, and added on a "happy" ending later?...

Also -- did the script specify that the Red Room where Laura and Coop was
is the Black Lodge?...

Somehow, it figures.  After reading the script, we only have more questions.


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Could the monkey we see at the beginning and end of FWWM symbolize
addiction?  You know, "he's got a monkey on his back"???

Or is this WAY to trite for Lynch?

Just askin.

Frank
--
Frank Luksa
Institute for the Learning Sciences
Northwestern University
luksa@ils.nwu.edu (129.105.49.1)

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In article <goldberg.715633226@vincent1.iastate.edu> goldberg@iastate.edu (Adam Goldberg) writes:
> >What follows in the culmination of re-watching the entire series, seeing FWWM,
> >and gathering up the best theories from the net:

> >SPOILERS A GO-GO
^L



 
> >What happens if BOB does manage to spell out his entire name under
> >fingernails?
 
Why, obviously he starts all over again.  "It is happening again,"
remember?

This brings to mind an interesting point.  Teresa's letter was a T... the
LAST in the name.  Laura's was an R, beginning the cycle.  Maddy, the 
next one BOB marked as a victim (by attacking her in #2002), got the O.
Ronnette got a B one episode later.  He's going through the letters in
sequence, it seems.

This would mean that, instead of being the beginning of a cycle, Teresa
Banks was the end of one.  But what exactly was repeating in this
cycle?...



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  I have not yet seen FWWM, and I don't want to miss all the discussion
but at the same time I don't want to read all the spoilers.  I haven't
seen the movie because I haven't seen the 2nd Season.  Is there anyone
who is going to sort out and maybe archive this stuff?  Also, if there
is anyone kind enough to offer the second season on tape, I can trade
the 3 1/2 hour version of Aliens, the Extended version of Dune (almost
4 hrs), or the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy (approx. 5 hrs).  I'm
willing to copy them myself. 

  Thank you so very much,
James    
 st1p5@rosie.uh.edu

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Hi there,

I was just wondering two things...  One, does anyone have the script to  
post/repost?  I would really like a copy of that.  Two, does anyone know where  
to get copies of the TV series on video?  Is there an address that I could  
order them from?  I have most of the first season on tape and I would like to  
finish that and get the second too.  That reminds me, is the second season on  
tape?  Well that was more than two questions, sorry.


barron koralesky

koralesb@carleton.edu

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In article <3113@tardis.Tymnet.COM>, jms@tardis.Tymnet.COM (Joe Smith)
wrote:
> > 
> > My wife says that this month's American Cinematographer magazine (the one
> > that hit the news stands 2-Sep) has articles featuring David Lynch and TP.
> > Check it out.

Yup, and lucky me, our library actually put it out on the shelf.
It is an interview of Ron Garcia, the Director of Photography for FWWM (and
the pilot). This is basically a trade mag, so it gets pretty technical. If
you know anything about lighting and film stock, you will find it
particularly fascinating, but the rest of us will find it of interest as
well. Some nice pictures, too, both color and B&W.  Here are some tidbits
of particular interest.

'Garcia himself is unsure of Lynch's true motive [in deciding to make
FWWM], but has his theories. "By listening to David talk to other people, I
began to piece it all together," he says.  "There was a book, The Secret
Diary of Laura Palmer [written by Lynch's daughter], and the people who
weere really following David Lynches ongoing story of Twin Peaks were still
out there [us!]. I think he decoded tp reign in the fanstastic elements a
bit more for the film, which tells the story of Laura Palmer's last seven
days.  The plot of the film dovetails perfectly into the pilot; David was
adamant about the details of the script and how they merged with the
series."'

The backwards stuff is actually shot with the camera running backwards and
posed some tricky technical problems when they shot the convenience store
scenes due to lighting units (Unilux) that drive the cameras. No one had
ever used them with cameras in reverse before.

<Spoilers ahead>


<Spoilers ahead>


<Spoilers ahead>


<Spoilers ahead>


<Spoilers ahead>


<Spoilers ahead>

'"We got a bit more unbalanced in the design of the film, using high and
low angles.  The high-angled shots reflect an angelic presence that
continues throughout the film, with an unseen angel looking down on the
evil events below."'

'"The shot [of the boy inside the picture] originally ended with the boy
gesturing toward the corner of the room, where a ring of fire appeared,"
saya Garcia. "David was going to use an optical, but he just didn't like
the way the ring of fire was coming out; he felt no one would believe it,
and substituted a dissolve instead."

He also comments that the convenience store room was originally designed to
have the ring of fire as in the script.

-Rich Haller

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     Does everyone already know that the One-Armed Man named Gerrard is
from the TV show 'THE FUGITIVE' where Dr. Richard Kimble was chasing
an unknown one-armed man who turned out to have killed his wife in
the series.  In the final episode of the fugitive it is fairly definite
that the one-armed man was the killer, but it also could have been Taft.
Lt. Gerrard was the police officer chasing Kimble across the U.S. in
the series which is still running in reruns on A&E.

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lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:

> > kosts@ursa.calvin.edu (Steven Koster) writes:
> > 
> > 
>>>> > >>> In the train car, an angel appears and saves Ronette Pulaski.  The
>>>> > >>> angel appears later in the red room (?)  
>>> > >>
>>> > >> The angel is Laura. 
>> > >
>> > > No, no, no. The angels are not Laura, Annie, or anyone else we know.  
> > 
> > I really hate to disappoint you, Steven, but you're *wrong*.  There's a
> > still of the "angel-in-the-train-car" scene in the booklet of the soundtrack
> > CD and it's definitely, unmistakably Laura.
> > 
> > Go watch the movie again.
> > 

I don't want to be rude but the none of the angels are Laura.

There are seperate listings in the credits for each angel and neither one 
is Laura. I believe that these are the angel that "left" Laura's picture 
earlier on.  Laura "got her angel back" at the end with the help of 
Cooper.  This includes the fore/back shadowing presence of Annie who 
tells Laura to wright in her Diary, which Cooper finds and helps her.
Yes I know it's confusing but that makes it great, IMHO.

I manage a movie theatre that is playing this film so please don't tell 
me that I must be mistaken.

If there are any questions about specific parts of the film that anyone 
wants to know I'll be happy to check for you.

I think the scene at the end where her angel comes back is the most 
powerful in the film.

Thanx

Bye For Now...
           ___  ____  ____           ____   ____     ___  _____  _   _
  /\      /   |/  __||  __|         |  _ \ |  __|   /   ||_   _|| | | |
 /  \    / /| || |   | |__   __  __ | | \ || |__   / /| |  | |  | |_| |
(    )  / __  || |__ | |__  |  ||_  | |_/ || |__  / __  |  | |  |  _  |
 ~/\~  /_/  |_|\____||____| |__||   |____/ |____|/_/  |_|  |_|  |_| |_|
  ~~                ace@eisley.wa.com

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   I found many good .gifs at audrey.sait.edu.au....  All of them Sherilyn 
Fenn, I might add...

L8R

reaper@3cpu.rain.com

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This is from Ed Hughes (saseph@unx.sas.com), who no longer has access to
alt.tv.twin-peaks:

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This is from Ed Hughes (saseph@unx.sas.com), who no longer has access to
alt.tv.twin-peaks:

From saseph@unx.sas.com Thu Sep 3 08:35:40 1992
From: Ed Hughes <saseph@unx.sas.com>

For what it's worth (2 cents ?), here's my list of what made
me dissatisfied with FWWM on the first viewing.  As I mentioned
before, Sheryl Lee *was* brilliant.  Chris Isaac was great, and
I wish we'd seen more of him and Keifer Sutherland.

FLAME ON

And now, a little file I like to call "Fire, Piss Me Off"

Things that I disliked about this movie:

1. Changed exteriors of Palmer house, Hayward house, Jacques' cabin.

2. Changed interiors of Palmer house (1st floor) and Hayward house (?).
   (I mean, my God, they *own* the sets from the TV series, don't they?
    So why not USE 'EM?!)

3. Numerous instances of re-writing ^TP^ history:
   a. Bobby shoots the Deer Meadow deputy.
   b. Leland, not Leo, knocks out Jacques.
   c. Laura is tied on a mattress, not a chair, in the cabin.
   d. Laura gets a call from James instead of Leland on the last night.
   e. Laura never gets her arms tied so that her arms bend back!

4. Omissions of oft-mentioned, anticipated, or crucial scenes:
   a. No scene of the infamous asparagus at dinner on the last night.
   b. No scene with Coop talking to Diane.
   c. No fight scene between Desmond and Sheriff Cable.
   d. Only one scene of Sam Stanley pricing everything.
   e. Almost no scenes where BOB talks to Laura and Silva
      actually has some lines!
   f. Just about all traces of Albert were obliterated.
      Did his great lines REALLY take up that much time?

5. Uncalled-for murkiness at key points:
   a. Phillip Jeffries' visit, and the recounted meeting above the
      convenience store (aggravating use of montage).
   b. TERRIBLE sound in the scene where the OAM drives up next to
      LeBOB and Laura.  I had read the script, and I *still* had
      a lot of trouble hearing what he was saying.

6. WAY too little use of Frank Silva.  He said he'd have some lines 
   in this movie.  He had ONE ("I want to taste through you").
   At least they let him crawl into Laura's bedroom through the
   window (and on top of Sheryl Lee!), as in the diary.

7. Kyle MacLachlan mailed in his performance.  Completely flat.

8. Token use of series regulars.  Why bother?  Took time away from
   other scenes that mattered, but were cut or removed.
   a.  The useless Leo and Shelley scene.
   b.  The Log Lady's 10-second appearance.

FLAME OFF

--ed


-- Ed Hughes, SAS Institute | "I'm human; now shut up and pass the salt!" Cary, NC | --Crow, "Rocketship X-M," MST3000 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ And this was my response:
> > 2. Changed interiors of Palmer house (1st floor) and Hayward house (?).
> >    (I mean, my God, they *own* the sets from the TV series, don't they?
> >     So why not USE 'EM?!)

Is the Hayward exterior changed?  Looks kind of the same....

> >    a. Bobby shoots the Deer Meadow deputy.

This was never mentioned in the series was it?  Other than James mentioning
that Laura said Bobby killed someone.  I ignore anything in the diary.

> >    b. Leland, not Leo, knocks out Jacques.

Jacques doesn't know any better, he was hit from behind.  As far as he's
concerned, it's just Leo.  Maybe Leo had an old shirt lying around at J's so
he uses that to stop the bleeding and for then next time they meet J throws
the shirt back at L.

> >    c. Laura is tied on a mattress, not a chair, in the cabin.

Wait, was this different from what?
(Ed Hughes thinks possibly Jacques mentions this)

> >    b. No scene with Coop talking to Diane.

Maybe it'll be in the 3:40 version.

> >    c. No fight scene between Desmond and Sheriff Cable.

Maybe it'll be in the 3:40 version.

> >    d. Only one scene of Sam Stanley pricing everything.

This will be in the 3:40 version.

> >    e. Almost no scenes where BOB talks to Laura and Silva
> >       actually has some lines!

Maybe it'll be in the 3:40 version.

> >    f. Just about all traces of Albert were obliterated.
> >       Did his great lines REALLY take up that much time?

Maybe it'll be in the 3:40 version.

> >    a. Phillip Jeffries' visit, and the recounted meeting above the
> >       convenience store (aggravating use of montage).

(Ed Hughes means that it was shortened way too much, I agree)

> >    b. TERRIBLE sound in the scene where the OAM drives up next to
> >       LeBOB and Laura.  I had read the script, and I *still* had
> >       a lot of trouble hearing what he was saying.

It is the same as the script except for the line
"There was a closeness"
was changed to
"There was a stillness"

> > 6. WAY too little use of Frank Silva.  He said he'd have some lines 
> >    in this movie.  He had ONE ("I want to taste through you").
> >    At least they let him crawl into Laura's bedroom through the
> >    window (and on top of Sheryl Lee!), as in the diary.

Again, maybe it'll be in the 3:40 version.

> > 7. Kyle MacLachlan mailed in his performance.  Completely flat.

Others think so too.  Why?  Yeah, his role was short, but flat?  He looked
pretty concerned in Philadelphia.  He just wasn't smiling and happy as in TV
cuz he certainly had no reason for that...

> > 8. Token use of series regulars.  Why bother?  Took time away from
> >    other scenes that mattered, but were cut or removed.
> >    a.  The useless Leo and Shelley scene.

That was only 10 seconds and it built up for the telephone.  TV watchers who
watch this movie and say why the hell is Norma, Shelly, etc. in there, but
hell what are they gonna do?  Recast the roles just cuz they're small?
I think it adds just that little bit more of flavor and continuity.

> >    b.  The Log Lady's 10-second appearance.

What was wrong with this?  Something to make you go, what the hell was that?

(Ed Hughes thinks the movie was poorly edited.  Isn't Lynch married to
Mary Sweeny, FWWM editor?  Is that why Duwayne Dunham didn't edit this?)

ed

   /\__Edwin Nomura -- enomura@ucsd.edu__________.:___________.____________/\
  / \\        .:.         .                      : .         :            / \\
 /  \\\   :  .::     :     :  Fire walk with me  :..        : .     :    /  \\\
/   \\\\..::..:::.:::::.:.:.....:::::...::..:...:::::.:.:::::.:....::.../   \\\\
-- /\__Edwin Nomura -- enomura@ucsd.edu__________.:___________.____________/\ / \\ .:. . : . : / \\ / \\\ : .:: : : Fire walk with me :.. : . : / \\\ / \\\\..::..:::.:::::.:.:.....:::::...::..:...:::::.:.:::::.:....::.../ \\\\

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In article <37698@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> ww10aac@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Eddie the 'ead)  
writes:
> > 
>> > > 7. Kyle MacLachlan mailed in his performance.  Completely flat.
> > 
> > Others think so too.  Why?  Yeah, his role was short, but flat?  He looked
> > pretty concerned in Philadelphia.  He just wasn't smiling and happy as in TV
> > cuz he certainly had no reason for that...
> > 
It seems to me that this was very well done, because, thinking back to the  
first episodes of Twin Peaks, this robotic man WAS Cooper -- Cooper "loosened  
up" a whole lot during the second season, but what he did in FWWM was quite in  
character with what he should have been like before the first season, IMHO.  In  
fact, I think I would have been much more disgruntled if he had been all jokes  
and smiles (or even serious, but human), because of that very continuity with  
the beginning of the series..
--
schmotsignature.
Paul Hagstrom
(hagstrop@carleton.edu)

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Ciao,




I wonder if the fact that it is "creamed" corn has some significance.
"Creamed" being some sort of preversion of the corn, ie. symbol of
life, the essence of life.  Then again I enjoy how Lynch takes
mundane things and somehow shows it in a weird light. How he takes
simple and innocent things and turns the tables on it. Like the song
"Blue Velvet, which is such a stupid, innocent little song, yet in
context of the movie it represents sado-masochism, darkness, and evil.

Sally--
-- And I'll see you//And you'll see me || Sally A. Wilson And I'll see you in the branches that blow || Spud Peel In the breeze,//I'll see you in the trees || sally@mica.berkeley.edu Under the sycamore trees (_Sycamore_Trees_ Lynch/Badalamenti)

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-> No. Again, this was how BOB was originally explained. In the
-> series the sketch of BOB was made from Cooper's description
-> (in his dreams), not Sara Palmer's.  When Leland later saw
-> the poster (in the series) he said ``I know this man...''
-> Again, this is the series plotline where BOB inhabits Leland,
-> not a physical person.
That isn't entirely true. At the end of the second 1hr episode (in Coop's 
dreem) he see's Bob. An episode of two later Sara has a vision of Bob. Coop 
refuses to go neef her, but has Harry and Hawk go and skech the man. When 
Harry brings back the skech Coop sayes that it is the man from his dream, 
that he knew his dream and Sara's vision were related, and that he didn't go 
becasue he is, "A strong sender," and he didn't want to influence her. The  
rest is right.

 /-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| It's all a game...                                                        |
|                        Gregory C. Salmieri                                |
|                                                       ...It's all the same|
 \-------------------------------------------------------------------------/

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lesley@cavebbs.welly.gen.nz (Lesley Walker) writes:

> > htilney@vax.clarku.edu writes:
>> > >
>> > >Remember when the dwarf said "I am the arm?" I think he somehow represents
>> > >the evil that MIKE lost when he lost his arm and was "purified." 
>> > >But when did this supposedly happen to MIKE? After Laura's murder?
> > 
> > Before, surely.  In the first episodes of the series we see the OAM going
> > about his business as a shoe salesman, within a few days at most after
> > Laura's death.  Someone who had recently cut off their arm would almost
> > certainly be in hospital.
> > 
> > Or is there a plot inconsistency about this?
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> >   -=- The Leather Goddess (aka Lesley Walker) -=- Wellington, New Zealand -=-
> >         lesley@cavebbs.welly.gen.nz                      Vote for MMP!
> >    DoD#258 -=- Yamaha XV1000 -=- Yamaha XS650 -=- Ford Cortina -=- Altos 586

When they first encounter the OAM he is not under Mike's possesion and he 
says he lost the arm in a car crash, Mike says that he took it off 
(he never uses the word "cut"). Is it possable that Mike used his 
super-natural powers to cause the car crash in which the OAM says he lost 
his arm when he is not under the control of MIKE. Also when we see the OASM 
in the piolet he is walking around in the hospital in a cloke, but there is 
no evidence he is selling shews, and you cant see weather his arm is there 
of not. SO he could have lost his arm after bot Laura's death and the piolet 
 (it was not untill later that they actualy found him) or he could have been 
under the control of Mike when we saw him and possably impervious to pain. 
Actualy Mike feeds on pain so...

 /-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| It's all a game...                                                        |
|                        Gregory C. Salmieri                                |
|                                                       ...It's all the same|
 \-------------------------------------------------------------------------/

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-> > why I say the One Armed Man lived there was because of the
-> "Lets Rock" on
-> > the car windshield Cooper saw . The LMFAP says "Lets Rock!"
-> and my guess is
-> > that "Lets Rock!" was what was on the tatoo that the OAM
-> had on the arm that
-> > he removed after seeing the face of God.
->  more  
->       
-> Well, if the tattoo was the same as BOB's (the tattoo we
-> saw in the Euro- video), it said "FIRE walk with me". 
This is a rather interesting question. Humm in the Euro-Movie the tatoo said 
"Fire Walk With Me", but in the TV show then the OAM (when not possesed by 
MIKE) said that there was a tatoo on the arm that he lost and that it said 
"BOB" then he started to cry and he told us that BOB was a veterinarian whi 
was a friend of his. Then Cooper and gang goto BOB's offices and confiscate 
his files. In them he findes Waldo a mina birsd owned by Renoulght. I wonder 
who that Bob was he is obiously in someway related to all this because he 
was very close with the OAM and because Renoulght used him.

 /-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| It's all a game...                                                        |
|                        Gregory C. Salmieri                                |
|                                                       ...It's all the same|
 \-------------------------------------------------------------------------/

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In article <1992Sep3.133528.24704@fig.citib.com> dmp@fig.citib.com (Donna M. Paino) writes:
> >
> >In article <KANDALL.92Sep1170900@globalize.nsg.sgi.com>, kandall@nsg.sgi.com (Michael Kandall) writes:
> >|> 
> >|> Why did Leland's hair turn white in the TV series?  I thought it was
> >|> because BOB had taken over his mind/body/soul.  Coop said he should
> >|> have realized earlier that BOB's grey, greasy hair, and the sudden
> >|> change in Leland's hair was related.
> >
> >Josie, who died with BOB taking over her body, also had a drastic
> >change in hairstyle, too.  But Cooper's hair never changed, so that
> >last scene where BOB appears in his mirror doesn't follow the pattern
> >(but what ever did, in that show!!!).
> >
> >Donna

I don't remember this, and I just re-watched the entire series before
going to see the movie. I do remember that she weighed only 80-some-odd
pounds after death, this was part of the her autopsy report. Back when
the series aired there was net speculation that the missing weight,
20-some-odd pounds had something to do with the projected weight of a
human soul.

Thinking about it, I think it would have been interesting to have
a cut of Josie applying her lipstick somewheres in the movie; since
afterall she was the first person whom we saw when the series premiered.

Also, while re-watching the episode 2020 (???) when Ben turns around
as if he sees something, I still think it was a flash of Josie, for
the next shot is of Pete staring at something and muttering something
like "Joise, I still she your face."

Sally--So did Ben die...and if so, who of Doc Hayward--A. Wilson



-- And I'll see you//And you'll see me || Sally A. Wilson And I'll see you in the branches that blow || Spud Peel In the breeze,//I'll see you in the trees || sally@mica.berkeley.edu Under the sycamore trees (_Sycamore_Trees_ Lynch/Badalamenti)

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Oh, by the way, I am not sure about the legality of doing this, copyrights and

all, and also how legal my copy is, but let me just say that, since this is
done all the time on the net anyhow, what the hell...  IF there are any
problems with this, well, let me know.

OK, there are some small little bits that I will leave out, word changes for
the
better and all, I will leave out the insignificant stuff, since that would
take forever anyhow.  I am dialing up to my account, so I have no access t
sorry, to a scanner for about two weeks, so I cannot post the thing.  Yet.

I am going to warn you here, this will spoil the WHOLE movie if you have not
seen it, so too bad.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The first twenty min. with Desmond and Stanley is all the same, with my copy
showing Stanley to be more annoyingly unfunny than he was.  But the first
change comes towards the end.  In my copy, the whole scence withthe old woman
and the icepack, where there is a dead silence and no explination whatsoever. 
Well, that does not exist in my script.  Instead, there is a short sequence
where they find a "Titleist Golf Ball" under TB's trailer. 
(Endorsement?)This, I have no explination for.  Then, the other major change
comes when they want to take TB's body away for study.  Cable and Desmond
fight eachother, and truthfully, this is better left out.

====
The script moves on, and later we find Cooper meeting with Stanley in his
apartment, Stanley's that is, which was left out of the movie.  Nothing really
important here, just that Stanley asks Cooper about the Blue rose, and Cooper
says that he will not tell him about it either===
=====
[Sorry about all these typos.]

The first MAJOR change comes with Phillip Jeffries/David Bowie.  After Cooper
goes thru with his bit of looking at the camera and then running to view the
tv monitor, there is a cut to:
EXT. BUENOS AIRES HOTEL-DAY
PHILLIP JEFFRIES checks into the hotel.

So there he is in South America, and then 
we read, 
BACK ON COOPER
He runs back out the door into the hallway.  Behind him at the end of the hall
a door opens and _Phillip Jeffries who moments ago was in Buenos
Aires_{Italicized} enters the hallway...

Obviously, this is all meant to shed a little more light on the picture, which
MR. Lynch convinently left out of the movie.
Jeffries moves into the room, and here is the text of what he says, that is,
in my script, though the whole sequence is different.  I will copy it as best
I can so you can tell the difference...

JEFFRIES: I want to tell you everything, but I don't have a lot to go on.  But
I'll tell you one thing: Judy is positive about this.
ALBERT: How interesting.  I thought we were going to keep Judy out of this.
JEFFRIES: Listen to me carefully.  I saw one of their meetings.  It was above
a convenience store.  
ALBERT: Who's meeting?  Where have you been?
COLE: For God sakes, Jeffries, you've been gone damn near two year.s
JEFFRIES: It was a dream.  We live insides a dream.
ALBERT: And it's raining Post Toasties.
JEFFRIES: NO, NO. I found something...in Seattle...at Judy's...and then,
tthere they were.,  They sat quietly for hours.

INT ROOM ABOVE THE CONVENIENCE STORE-DAY

SIX PEOPLE IN A LARGE, BARREN, FILTHY ROOM.  CHEAP PLASTIC STORM WINDOWS FLAP
IN THE COLD WIND.  I NTHE FOREGROUND THE MAN FROM ANOTHER PLACE (MIKE) AND BOB
SIT AT A FORMICA TABLE.  BEHIND THEM ON PLASTIC TORN CHAIRS HUDDLE MRS.
TREMOND AND HER GRANDSON.  TWO BIG WOODSMEN WITH FULL BEARDS SIT QUIETLY.

{This is mostly subtitled...}
FIRST WOODSMAN: We have descended from pure air.
MFAP: Goin up and down.  Intercourse between the two worlds.
BOB: LIght of new discoveries.
MRS TREMOND: Why not be composed of materials and combinations of atoms?
GRANDSON: This is no accident.
MFAP: This is a formica table.  Green is its color. [He touches the table].
FIRST WOODSMAN: Our Wold.
{sorry, that's 'World'}
MFAP: With chrome.  And everything will proceed cyclically.
SECOND WOODSMAN: Boneless.
MIKE: Yes, find the middle place.
BOB:[screaming] I have the fury of my own momentum.
GRANDSON: Fell a victim.
MFAP: Fire walk with me...
BOB: [claps his hand and a circle of fire appears in the room.]  Fire walk
with me

THE RED ROOM

[Bob crawls into the Red Room and Mike starts to yell and leaps in after him.]

SECOND WOODSMAN:  Thus time moves on.

FBI OFFICE.

JEFFRIES: I followed. [he cries]. The ring..ring...
COLE: Albert, I'll take that second mineral water.  [AFTER HESIATAION, ALBERT
GETS THE MESSAGE AND LEAVES THE ROOM.]  Phillip, let's calm down and get all
of this interesting story on paper.  [COLE TRIES TO RAISE SOMEONE ON THE
INTERCOM BUT IT DOESN'T SEEM TO HAVE ANY JUICE.]  Hello...Hellol...[HE IS
GETTING NOTHING.  THE STATIC BEGINS TO BUILD ON THE INTERCOM.  THE WIRING ON
THE WALL AND THE FLOURESCENT LIGHTS START TO HUM AS WELL.]
Let me hear some good news.  My device is faulty. Where the hell is the sound
in this thing?  Mayday...

HEARING 'MAY', JEFFIRES TURNS AND STAES AT A _CALENDAR ON THE WALL_ MOVE INTO
JEFFRIES.
?
JEFFRIES: MAY? 1989?  [STARING AT THE CALENDAR, IT IS 1989.]

{To save space, they check the tape and see that he was there, although now he
has disappeared...The next scence has him reappear in the hotel in Buenos
Aires, in a hallway with terrified workers and a blackened, smoking wall.}


++++++
Well, that is all I can do right now.  I do have to pay this long distance
bill for dialing up, and I do have to work tomorrow.  Boy, summer jobs are
hell...

I will continue tomorrow, and hopefully this has some brains churning with the
impications of what was said.  I hope you could decipher this all, my typing
that is, and I will paginate this better nexttime....

stay tuned...


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I just realized.  Someone has already posted a summary of the same script that
I have.  Could someone please post it again, or give me the article #, so I
can save myself and others trouble...

thanx!

marc hause

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lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:

> >kosts@ursa.calvin.edu (Steven Koster) writes:

> >
>>>> >>>> In the train car, an angel appears and saves Ronette Pulaski.  The
>>>> >>>> angel appears later in the red room (?)  
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The angel is Laura. 
>> >>
>> >> No, no, no. The angels are not Laura, Annie, or anyone else we know.  

> >I really hate to disappoint you, Steven, but you're *wrong*.  There's a
> >still of the "angel-in-the-train-car" scene in the booklet of the soundtrack
> >CD and it's definitely, unmistakably Laura.

no you are *wrong*.  I've got the cd, it is
NOT "definitely, unmistakably Laura".  There is a similarity but
it's not her, unless she got chubby cheeks all of a sudden.

> >Go watch the movie again.

yeah, and watch the credits this time for "angel 1  angel 2"
or something like that.   they aint sheryl lee.

> >--
> >Lazlo (lazlo@triton.unm.edu)

::j


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