Season 2, Episode 02: Coma — October 06–12, 1990

     Why isn't it all red this season?    or,

     Why was it all red last season?

  Ok, so BOB is an owl.  Messages from somewhere else are talking to
Cooper,  the log lady is becoming a character who has access to many
facts, but not ability to retrieve them.
 
  The kid's magic trick was rather impressive, especially for the setting.
 
 So to anyone who thought that T.P. was going to get saner, it won't.

 Sit back, relax, watch, and enjoy, there ain't much you can do about it.

J-l P

wherry@alazif.enet.dec.com (bradley g wherry) writes:

> >I think its pretty safe to say that bob is bob, he's not an owl, and I doubt
> >that he is human.

Based on the episode 2.2, we can now conjecture that Bob just might be an
owl.

Also, I don't think the Leland killed Laura theory holds up after 2.2 either.

> >brad wherry                |  Ex ignorantia ad sapientiam; 
-- Clay Luther, Postmaster cluther@supernet.haus.com postmaster@supernet.haus.com clay.luther@supernet.haus.com Harris Adacom Corporation MS 23, PO Box 809022, Dallas, Tx 75380-9022 214/386-2356 Your mileage may vary. Void where prohibited.

I hate it when the producers decided to make n years of episodes a long
dream sequence.

St. Elsewhere, Bob Newhart, Twin Peaks...


Bernard Chang.

In article <8673@milton.u.washington.edu> twain@blake.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin) writes:
> >In article <484@kaos.MATH.UCLA.EDU> sherman@math.ucla.edu (William Sherman) writes:

//- No question about it.  The character I'd like to see most brought to TP has
//to be Diane Shapiro, Ph.d. Brandeis.

>> >>I'm with you on this.  She must be a cool character for Hawk to say that
>> >>she's given him 'a singular joy'.  And what's her Ph.D. in, anyway?

> >Probably Sanscrit.        


Um. . . why?


-- Rod Johnson * rjohnson@vela.acs.oakland.edu * (313) 650 2315 "Dogs bark at strangers" -- Heraclitus

In article <2810@jaytee.East.Sun.COM> msmiller@Sun.COM (Mark Miller) writes:

> >I agree that Leland is the obvious choice - he got Renault and Jacoby
> >(so it seems) - and he's clearly the most unhinged person there, save
> >for the Log Lady.

You know, given the fact that Cooper is getting messages from every
which way these days, and given that the Log Lady's last
"transmission" was quite appropriate, I'd have to say that we really
have no reason to think of her as unhinged AT ALL.  Odd, yes, but
pretty much on top of things as they are (as opposed to how they
seem). No?

-- Rod Johnson * rjohnson@vela.acs.oakland.edu * (313) 650 2315 "Dogs bark at strangers" -- Heraclitus

Although I had 4 years of French in Jr. High and High School, and
there are many more fluent than I, I thought the KM said,
"Et une ame solitaire" describing Harold Smith next door, whom
Donna was going to visit.

In article <15922@bfmny0.BFM.COM>, tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM (Tom Neff) writes:
> > In article <1990Oct7.114315.1@acad3.fai.alaska.edu> fsejo@acad3.fai.alaska.edu (Eric Olson) writes:
>> >>And while I'm at it, let me add that I don't think I can handle the frustration
>> >>of seeing whatsername's not to Special Agent under his bed anymore.  
> > 
> > Well, it sure doesn't say much for the maid service at the Great
> > Northern, does it?  (Knowing Lynch, he'd show us the maid carefully
> > replacing the note under the bed each day after cleaning...)
> > 

Are we, here, talking about the maid service which left a man who'd been shot
on the floor?

Ah.  No, that was /room/ service.  Sorry.  My mistake.
-- Eric Olson <fxejo@acad3.fai.alaska.edu> Gryphon Gang Fairbanks AK 99775

In article <1990Oct8.210108.8489@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, ceblair@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Charles Blair) writes:
> > 
> >    Somebody posted Cooper-as-lunatic-pretending-to-be-FBI here well before
> > it was used as ``TWIN PEAKS THEORY #42.''
 
Now that's a strange idea.  Although he did (apparently) walk into One-Eyed
Jack's with $10,000 of ``the Agency's money'' he did turn out to be a card-
counter so that doesn't rule it out.

(The point being that there aren't too many rich lunatics running around.)
(Anyone know Lynch's salary?)

> >    Why is Ben's ownership of One-Eyed Jack's supposed to be such a big
> > secret.  Einar Thorson knows, and he doesn't seem the embodiment of discretion.
 
But he's been taken in hand by the brothers weird, who're trying to sell him on
the idea that Twin Peaks is a small community with big city entertainments
available...
-- Eric Olson <fxejo@acad3.fai.alaska.edu> Gryphon Gang Fairbanks AK 99775

In article <8792@milton.u.washington.edu>, twain@blake.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin) writes:
> > 
> > Well, Killer Bob may or may not be a killer or have killed Laura 
> > Palmer, but he's one spooky dude.  I found that maniacal expression 
> > of eagerness as he scrambled spider-like over the sofa and coffee 
> > table toward Maddy very menacing and *really scary*.
> > 
So did I, but this may just be Maddie's /impression/ of big bob, since she
didn't exactly meet him under the best of circumstances.  Ahem.
-- Eric Olson <fxejo@acad3.fai.alaska.edu> Gryphon Gang Fairbanks AK 99775

In article <1158600093@cdp> forestwatch@cdp.UUCP writes:
> >The owls are not what they seem.  Killer Bob is an owl.
> >Killer Bob is not what he seems (i.e., a killer).  Ergo:  Killer
> >Bob did not kill Laura Palmer.

Agreed!  Well thought through.

As to who DID kill her, I don't think we can judge anything based on
"attitudes" displayed so far, because the authors are playing those
close to the vest, changing them at will to explain plot points.  James
could turn vicious next episode and get pinned with the killing and
that'd be it.  Or it could still be Leo, heck why not.  But I do like
Donna for it, finally.  She has the jealousy motive.
-- Anthrax Rampant in Kirghizia: Oo*oO Tom Neff Izvestia Comment -- TASS * *O* * tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM

I don't think this made it the first time, so I'm trying it again.
Enjoy...

In article <899@gnosys.svle.ma.us>, gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us (Gary S. Trujillo) writes:
|> 
|> E N D A N G E R E D   T I B E T
|> An Ecology Conference
|> Featuring
|> GALEN ROWELL
|> 
|> Saturday, October 27, 1990
|> 8:30 AM - 5:00 PM
|> Cowell Theater
|> Fort Mason Center
|> San Francisco, CA
|> 
|> " If I had to do it all over again there's only one
|> thing I would have done differently.  I wouldn't have
|> compromised the story of Tibet's environmental de-
|> struction as much as I did.  Then, I was worried about
|> going back.  Now I simply want to tell the story."
|> -- Galen Rowell
|> 
|> 
|> 8:30 - 9:00 am   Registration
|> 9:00-9:15 am     Introduction
|> 9:15-10:30 am    Galen Rowell
|>  The Agony of Tibet :  The story of
|>  the environmental destruction of Tibet.
|>  With slides
|> 10:30-11:15am    Orville Schell
|>  Chinese attitudes to conservation
|>  & to Tibet
|> 
|> 11:15-12:00  Tibetan Witnesses Panel
|> 12:00 - 1:00 pm Lunch
|> 1:00 - 1:15pm    Comments by David Brower
|> 1:15-2:25pm Nancy Nash & Tenzin Atisha
|>  Tibetan/Buddhist perceptions of nature &
|>  conservation; Tibetan ecology proposals
|> 2:25-3:35 pm Elmar Reiter
|>  Central Asian deforestation & its
|>  environmental effects
|> 3:35-3:45pm Break
|> 3:45-4:45pm Panel: What We Can Do!
|>  Moderator:  Michael van Walt
|> 4:45-5:00pm Concluding remarks
|> 
|> The highly developed Tibetan culture retains as a core value
|> compassion for all living beings and the protection of habitat.
|> Exploitation of the earth's resources is perceived as resulting
|> in disharmony.  Since the 1949 invasion of Tibet and subsequent
|> occupation by China, Tibet has witnessed ecology devastation
|> of appalling proportions.  Indiscriminate shooting has greatly reduced
|> Tibetan wildlife and endangered many species inluding the
|> snow leopard, wild yak, argali sheep and black-neck crane.
|> Severe deforestation and over-grazing has led to erosion and
|> flooding.  The Dalai Lama, in his Five Point Peace Plan for
|> Tibet, has called for "restoration and protextion of Tibet's
|> natural environment."  This conference seeks to spotlight and
|> help address the issue of the threat to the Tibetan people and
|> environment.
|> 
|> Registration
|> __ $35 conference fee
|> __  20 conference fee (students)
|> __   6 bag lunch (optional)
|> __  60 conference fee + signed copy of My Tibet
|> 
|> Please make checks payable to Bay Area Friends of Tibet &
|> note on the check "for ecology conference."
|> Mail registration forms & checks to:
|> 
|> Humanitas,
|> Post Office Box 818
|> Menlo Park, CA  94026
|> 
|> Any $$ remaining after meeting conference expenses
|> will be used for ecology projects of the Bay Area Friends
|> of Tibet, the International Campaign for Tibet, & ECO_Tibet USA.
|> 
|> For further information, please contact Ed Lazar,
|> conference coordinator, at Humanitas.
|> TEL: 415/324-9077
|> FAX: 415/328-0845
|> 
|> -- 
|>     Gary S. Trujillo                            gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us
|> Somerville, Massachusetts              {wjh12,bu.edu,spdcc,ima,cdp}!gnosys!gst

David Hollingsworth

 I s
    
 
   I sometimes wonder what would happen to the show if Lynch or Frost
started reading this newsgroup.  I'm sure they'd find it quite entertaining,
but they might also get some great ideas to incorporate into the plot.

     "Hmmmm, space aliens.  It could work." 



                    ^Twin Peaks^


%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

In article <1990Oct8.181208.19195@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> brennan@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan) writes:
> >
> >     Why isn't it all red this season?    or,
> >
> >     Why was it all red last season?



It was all red last season because they had you in the Red Room.  

It's *not* all red this season because you've been given visiting 
privileges and get to socialize with others during Happy Hour.

--Barbara 



--
Barbara HlavinMoab is my wash-pot; over Edom
twain@blake.acs.washington.eduwill I cast out my shoe; Philistia,
U Washington JC-21/Seattle 98105be thou glad of me.

> >//- No question about it.  The character I'd like to see most brought to TP has
> >//to be Diane Shapiro, Ph.d. Brandeis.
> >
>>> >>>I'm with you on this.  She must be a cool character for Hawk to say that
>>> >>>she's given him 'a singular joy'.  And what's her Ph.D. in, anyway?
> >
>> >>Probably Sanscrit.        
> >
> >
> >Um. . . why?
> >
> >
> >-  Rod Johnson- 



Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.  I meant it as a joke.  

However, let me put my Agent Cooper hair on:  Sanscrit because it is 
an ancient language of India, where the Buddha was born.  

The study of it is very esoteric; for instance, Jeffrey Masson, he of
the expose _In the Freud Archives_, has a Ph.D. in Sanscrit.

--Barbara

--
Barbara HlavinMoab is my wash-pot; over Edom
twain@blake.acs.washington.eduwill I cast out my shoe; Philistia,
U Washington JC-21/Seattle 98105be thou glad of me.

In article <30691@netnews.upenn.edu> hafken@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (David Hafken) writes:
> >Just a quick question for those of you with good memories:  was it mentioned
> >last season that Bobby had killed someone in the past?  Or was it Leo they
> >were talking about?  Does anyone know which episode # this was mentioned.

In the diary, Laura writes about a drug deal gone bad where, as they (Laura,
Leo, Bobby) zoomed away in a pickup, Bobby shot and killed a man who was
hiding in the bed of the pickup.  Neither of them lets it "sink in" until
much later when Laura brings it up -- then Bobby breaks down crying.

--
Larry Spence
larry@csccat.cs.com
...{uunet,texsun,cs.utexas.edu,decwrl}!csccat!larry

In article <1990Oct7.034415.11451@zip.eecs.umich.edu> chrisl@dip.eecs.umich.edu (Chris Lang) writes:
> >Finally, what happened to Hank that turned him from "one of the best of us"
> >into a drug-dealer and a murderer?

He was seduced by the dark side of the force.  His name used to be "Anakin
Skywalker".  Furthermore, he's Cooper's father.


 Bill Sherman sherman@math.ucla.edu
Just on the border of your waking mind, there lies another time where
darkness and light are one; and as you tread the halls of sanity, you feel
so glad to be unable to go beyond.  I have a message from another time. -ELO

   Somebody posted Cooper-as-lunatic-pretending-to-be-FBI here well before
it was used as ``TWIN PEAKS THEORY #42.''

   Why is Ben's ownership of One-Eyed Jack's supposed to be such a big
secret.  Einar Thorson knows, and he doesn't seem the embodiment of discretion.

Charles Blair

In article <12627789439009@OSU-20.IRCC.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
PUTNAM-L@OSU-20.IRCC.OHIO-STATE.EDU (Lee Putnam) writes:
> >
> > -Lynch has entered the realm of sci-fi and that is great. I now intend to sit
> > back and watch many of you bicker about the "absurdity" of TP.

Entering the realm of sci-fi is fine, as long as it's GOOD sci-fi.  The
"message from outer space" scene, with Cooper's awe-struck "Oh, my God"
could have come from any bad B movie.

IM(not so)HO, Lynch has gravely misjudged his audience in throwing this
trash at us.  No longer just adding spice, the supernatural has taken
over the show.

Aside from one-liners, Twin Peaks just isn't that good this season.

-Pat
"Has anyone seen Bob on earth in the last few weeks?"

In article <1990Oct8.210108.8489@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, ceblair@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Charles Blair) writes:
> >    Why is Ben's ownership of One-Eyed Jack's supposed to be such a big
> >secret.  Einar Thorson knows, and he doesn't seem the embodiment of discretion.

Also, why would they fire Laura from OEJ's for drug use???!!!?? The whole place
is full of druggies and is managed by a junkie? 

gln

In article <1158600093@cdp> forestwatch@cdp.UUCP writes:
> >
> >The owls are not what they seem.  Killer Bob is an owl.
*>Killer Bob is not what he seems (i.e., a killer).*  Ergo:  Killer
> >Bob did not kill Laura Palmer.
> >
> >Jeffrey St. Clair



Well, Killer Bob may or may not be a killer or have killed Laura 
Palmer, but he's one spooky dude.  I found that maniacal expression 
of eagerness as he scrambled spider-like over the sofa and coffee 
table toward Maddy very menacing and *really scary*.

Twin Peaks has started giving me nightmares.  I dreamed Saturday 
night that Blackie and Jerry Horne welded a thin metal plate to 
Shelley Johnson's face.  (No analysis, please!)

--Barbara

--
Barbara HlavinMoab is my wash-pot; over Edom
twain@blake.acs.washington.eduwill I cast out my shoe; Philistia,
U Washington JC-21/Seattle 98105be thou glad of me.

          I posted once before about all the presidential references in
an episode last season (The one where the Log Lady slaps Coops hand) and
I was wondering if you would all pardon my ignorance and tell me how you
know or found out that Austin Jack (after Nance?) Lynch's character's
name is Pierre Tremond. Was it in the diary, I can't remember. Or was it
in the credits (I remember it saying something like little boy or
something). Anyway Just wondering where you got it and thanks 4 the hours
of additional entertainment and theory as well as the reminders not to
take this to seriously.
                             Yummy Fir,
                              Chris Coleman

In article <27810002@hprpcd.HP.COM> jimh@hprpcd.HP.COM (Jim Hickey) writes:
> >Maddy's full name anagrams to: FIRE SONG MEAN DUEL  (with no leftover letters)
Sorry, but "Madeleine Ferguson" has 17 letters.  Your anagram has 16.

> >Is it too obvious or do the two letters found under the girls
> >fingernails (T and R) remind you of harry s. TRuman?
There was some discussion of this a few days ago.  Or was it weeks?
There was some other evidence re: Harry discussed, if you want to go
back and look for it (a frightening prospect).


 Bill Sherman sherman@math.ucla.edu
Just on the border of your waking mind, there lies another time where
darkness and light are one; and as you tread the halls of sanity, you feel
so glad to be unable to go beyond.  I have a message from another time. -ELO

Why is the vision of Laura's mother running down the stairs important. 
I believe Cooper saw this in his first dream as well.  Any ideas about
its significance?  Sorry if this has already been covered but I don't
remember reading about it.

frank.

c2h5oh@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Idealistic Bibliomystic) writes:
> >In article <Ub3vPWu00WB5A9vIdw@andrew.cmu.edu> sb2t+@andrew.cmu.edu (Susan Lynn Bowser) writes:
>> >>Now I don't exactly support the "Maddy is really Laura" theory,
>> >>but I know everyone (including Donna) noticed the way that
>> >>James and Maddy looked at each other when they were all singing.

A friend of mine has this theory:  Maddy is Laura, and BOB is Laura.
Laura, not Leland or Ben, is the one with MPD.  Laura, in her BOB
persona, killed herself.  The man we have been calling BOB tried to
revive her, unsuccessfully.  Who wrapped her in plastic and dumped
her in the river, I'm sure I don't know.

Laura in her Diary speaks of having visions of BOB.  Maddy has visions
of BOB.  Of course, Cooper and Sarah are also having visions of BOB,
so who knows.

I wonder how much of The Book of the Subgenius (written by the followers
of J.R. "BOB" Dobbs) David Lynch has read.

[speaking of James' singing]
> >during the singing. (and Lord, what singing! How'd he DO that voice?)

I don't know about anyone else, but it sounded a lot like Richard
O'Brian, of Rocky Horror fame, to me.
-- Doug Moran | He played the `Anvil Chorus' by blowing on pyramid!ctnews!sparky!dougm | knives and forks, and for a finish he blew up dougm@sparky.Convergent.com | a turkey until music came out of its ass.

Just some grist for the mill:

Palmer:  A medieval European pilgrim who carried a palm branch as a token
of having visited the Holy Land.

Cooper:  One who makes or repairs wooden tubs and casks.

And I refuse to comment on Lucy's last name.
--
         Doug Moran         | He played the `Anvil Chorus' by blowing on
pyramid!ctnews!sparky!dougm | knives and forks, and for a finish he blew up
dougm@sparky.Convergent.com | a turkey until music came out of its ass.

In article <8792@milton.u.washington.edu> twain@blake.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin) writes:
> >Twin Peaks has started giving me nightmares......

I know what you mean about TP sensibilities invading one's life. Since
May, everytime I approach the denouement of whatever mystery novel I'm
reading, I can't *believe* they're just going to *tell* me who the
killer is! Or that the story is actually going to resolve itself...and
*end*! It seems my default clock has been reset to Twin Peaks Time.


-- ================================================================= Delia Cioffi: -- University of Houston: cioffi@menudo.uh.edu -- Stanford University: cioffi@psych.stanford.edu

(Apologies if this is a repost)

In light of this past episode's Lucy/Andy exchange and the fact that
they (L & A) appeared to be engaged in other activities, are we to
assume that the search of FleshWorld back issues for a TB connection
proved unsuccessful?


Surely The Creators didn't forget that they had L & A doing this...


Thoughts?




--
---- jbone@Sun.COM --------------------------------------------------
 "...it's a game with added reality..." - Master & Servant, D. Mode
------------------------------------------------------ Jeff Bone ----
                                                                   --

The French sentence that the young Lynch spoke while holding
the cream corn sounded to me like

                   ^
          J'ai une ame solitaire 

(translation: I have a solitary soul.)    

The "alien" message bugs me.  I haven't gone back to look at the
printout, but it looked like the printout data was supposed to be
radio signal samples, encoded into a four-character format (usually
a letter and some digits.)  So how could *any* external signal, whether
from aliens or not, yield strings like COOPER/COOPER/COOPER?
Unless you were intervening at some point *after* the signals were
supposedly received and encoded, I don't see how you'd do it.

(Of course, I'd imagine that whoever inserted the message would have
to know the implementation of the signal-coder very well, since there is as
yet no universal standard for transmitting text via radio.)

In any case, there still exist numerous possible meanings
and sources for Major Briggs' message.  Some of them could
be quite intriguing.  (I leave the possibilities as an exercise
for the reader.)  But I'll be disappointed if Lynch develops
the story to be dependent on the message taken at face value.

John Ockerbloom
-- ========================================================================== ockerbloom@cs.cmu.edu ...!uunet!cs.cmu.edu!ockerbloom ocker@yalecs.bitnet (forwarded) 4209 Murray Ave., Pittsburgh PA 15217

In article <1990Oct8.213209.16790@athena.mit.edu> patl@athena.mit.edu (Patrick J. LoPresti) writes:
> >In article <12627789439009@OSU-20.IRCC.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
> >PUTNAM-L@OSU-20.IRCC.OHIO-STATE.EDU (Lee Putnam) writes:
>> >> -Lynch has entered the realm of sci-fi and that is great. I now intend to sit
>> >> back and watch many of you bicker about the "absurdity" of TP.
> >
> >Entering the realm of sci-fi is fine, as long as it's GOOD sci-fi.  The
> >"message from outer space" scene, with Cooper's awe-struck "Oh, my God"
> >could have come from any bad B movie.

With all due respect -- bullshit!  If the exact same premise were
presented in ASIMOV'S or F&SF in a story by some respectable author,
we'd accept it without blinking an eye.  This is the SF community's
double standard working on overdrive.  When we encounter palpable
nonsense in a LeGuin or Lafferty story, we withhold scorn because we
know the creative content of the whole will justify the excursion.  Why
deny Lynch and Frost the same breathing room?  Who's more brilliant:
David Lynch or Joe Schmoe landing his first ANALOG sale?

> >IM(not so)HO, Lynch has gravely misjudged his audience in throwing this
> >trash at us.  No longer just adding spice, the supernatural has taken
> >over the show.

I have agreed with this sentiment in an earlier posting, but my point
was that the lay audience is not going to tolerate mystical mumbo jumbo
when they expect a taut thriller.  I suspect that SF aficionados are
largely a captive audience and neither ABC not Lynch/Frost need be
particularly afraid of losing them.

-- Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, || Tom Neff lying in hospitals dying of nothing. -- Redd Foxx || tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM

In article <1990Oct7.103708.14205@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> elf@dgp.toronto.edu (Eugene Fiume) writes:
> >So, why does that kid magician look like a scale model of David Lynch, and

Because he's David Lynch's son is the simple answer.  It also happens
to be the right one.  The actor's name is Austin Jack Lynch.

+---------------------- Is there any ESCAPE from NOISE? ---------------------+
|  |   |\       | jsd@gaffa.mit.edu | ZIK ZAK - We make everything you need, |
| \|on |/rukman | -Fight The Power- | and you need everything we make.       |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Could someone explain to me what's going on with the Mill ledgers?
Ben says that the real one "masterminded by Catherine" shows the Mill
sliding into bankruptcy.  The fake one, according to Ben, shows the
Mill turning a healthy profit.

I thought Catherine was cooking a fake ledger which showed the Mill
sliding into bankruptcy.  I thought that she believed she was doing it
so that the Mill fire would look like Josie torched a losing business
to collect the insurance money.

In other words, I believed that the Mill was doing fine, and Catherine
wanted the Mill to look like it was losing money.  The ledger that
"spells bankruptcy" is the one that was hidden, remember.

By the way, this is by far *not* the most confusing thing to me about
Twin Peaks, these days.

______________                  _____________________________
Bob Glickstein                | Internet: bobg@andrew.cmu.edu
Information Technology Center | Bitnet:   bobg%andrew@cmuccvma.bitnet
Carnegie Mellon University    | UUCP:     ...!harvard!andrew.cmu.edu!bobg
Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890    |
(412) 268-6743                | Sinners can repent, but stupid is forever

Someone mentioned that the absence of the VCR atop the
Johnsons' TV (seen when Hank shots Leo as Leo tries to kill
Bobby, missing when Cooper, Truman et al. are searching chez
Johnson) is a continuity error.  I don't think so.  Remember
that they had acquired a search warrant & that usually includes
a proviso re: removal of possibly relevant items, & a video tape
has played a pivotal role in resolving a mystery earlier.  I main-
tain that the VCR was removed by those law enforcement types.

However, I think the AB- goof & the heart on a thong/chain/thong
are *definite* mistakes.

"I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV"Ge|ge

--

I still say that that "without chemicals" thingy refers to
Jacoby. He was acting even stranger than normal while in
the hospital, even Dr. Hayward commented on it, asking
the nurse what he was on. The nurse said only what you
prescibed, & something about eatting some of his food.
Then in walks Coop & he interrogates Jacoby. Jacoby in turn
tells him about Laura, & that it appeared to him that
she was about to confront something/one. He hints at
suicide to which Coop refutes, but he says that although
she did not  physically kill her ownself, she brought it
about. I think this is pointing the way to something, and
thus the 3rd clue. For prior to this we & Coop sees the
Smiling Bag, ie Jacques in the bodybag being carted off, then
he interrogates Jacoby, then this week the Owl message.
1-2-3, in that order.


   Considerate la vostra semenza:      ||  sally a. wilson
fatti non foste a viver come bruti,    ||  sally@mica.berkeley.edu
ma per seguir virtute e canoscenza.    ||  "il inferno":
_Inferno_ Canto XXVI vv.118-120.       ||  damn good poem, & hot too!

My impression of the poem Mike relates is:

In the darkness of future past
the magician longs to see
one chance out between two worlds
fire walk with me.

I reran the tape four or five times to get this impression.
That doesn't make it a certainty, though.

- ced

In article <9777@ur-cc.UUCP> clc5_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (BOB) writes:
> >I was wondering if you would all pardon my ignorance and tell me how you
> >know or found out that Austin Jack (after Nance?) Lynch's character's
> >name is Pierre Tremond. Was it in the diary, I can't remember.
> >                             Yummy Fir,
> >                              Chris Coleman

Yeah it's somewhere very near the end of the diary, Laura gives
the kid a little speech after he pulls a gold coin out of her ear.

Michael Kaye   horny@ucscb.ucsc.edu

In article <26165@megaron.cs.arizona.edu> gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary Newell) writes:
> >Also, why would they fire Laura from OEJ's for drug use???!!!?? The whole place
> >is full of druggies and is managed by a junkie? 
> >
> >gln

info from the diary, but it's no biggie if you read it anyway.


You don't understand, Laura didn't have a drug problem, she had a
>>> >>>DRUG PROBLEM<<<.  heh.  According to Blackie, the customers
were complaining about the shoddy service they had been getting
lately with Laura's increased drug use.  I don't think this is why
she was fired or left.  I think Blackie just freaked out after 
Laura's lesbian tryst with Blackie in which Laura totally dominated 
and overpowered her.  Laura says she knew she'd never work at OEJ 
after this happened.  So I think that's the reason. :)

Laura says she has to tell the world about Benjamin after leaving OEJ, 
this could well have something to do with her death.  Benjamin
kills in TP to keep people quiet.

Michael Kaye   horny@ucscb.ucsc.edu
"Say it isn't so Krusty!"

Well, I don't remember Leland saying that he knew Bob as a real person.
I could be wrong, I haven't reviewed the tape yet, but my theory (which
is mine) is this (ahem):

Bob is the evil in the woods.  He's been there a long time--a very long
time.  He has been haunting people in the area for ages.  He especially
preys on very young girls (typical of ghosts) but occasionally haunts
boys, too.  Back when Leland was a kid, his family used to summer (?) at
Pearl Lakes (not very far, I think, from Twin Peaks).  While there,
Bob haunted him.  However, he was very young at the time, the haunting
was probably short-lived, and the experience horrifying enough for
him to suppress it.

Now, many years later, he's acting crazy.  There are two related
possibilities for this.  One is that the suppressed experiences with
Bob came out as sexual abuse of Laura and now he is feeling guilty
(I believe this most) or he somehow recognized or sensed Laura's
experiences and they brought out weird reactions in him (I'm kind
of unclear about this idea).

Anyway, now he sees the picture of Bob and he recognizes him from
his boyhood haunting.  What do you think?

Gail

PS.  Jerry said something to Ben that seemed to basically sum up
     the whole atmosphere of the show.  I believe it was:  "Is this
     real or just some twisted dream?

-- Respond to claris!wet!gail@ames.arc.nasa.gov or gail@wet.UUCP

In article <7629@darkstar.ucsc.edu> horny@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Michael Kaye) writes:
> >
> >Yeah it's somewhere very near the end of the diary, Laura gives
> >the kid a little speech after he pulls a gold coin out of her ear.
> >
> >Michael Kaye   horny@ucscb.ucsc.edu

Minor point here, but several people have mentioned it.  In the diary
(page 180-181) Laura is talking about her conversation with Jacoby.

"I told Dr. Jacoby...."
"I told him...."
"I told Dr. Jacoby..."
"On the way...Pierre...picked a gold coin out of my ear and walked away."
"I told him...."

The 'him' at the start of the last paragraph is still referring to Jacoby,
not Pierre.  Pierre walked away, and can think of no reason Laura would tell
the boy about BOB. Whatever.....

*********************************
 Not Jake, but Jon  kull@msg.ucsf.edu
*********************************

If you ask me, all the events in Twin Peaks happened several months before the
events in _The Hidden_, and therefore Special Agent Cooper will soon be killed
in a forest fire and his body will be taken over by the giant.  Meanwhile,
Bob, who is in reality the villain alien from _The Hidden_ will go on a
murder, robbery, and brouhaha spree throughout the west coast until finally
being killed by The Giant's Bug-like Alien Zapper(tm).  Finally, Harry Truman,
who looks suspiciously like Michael Nouri, also of _The Hidden_ will be
fatally wounded, only to be taken over by the Giant who lets go of Late
Special Agent Cooper's body and runs off with Joan Chen.  Happy ending...

Or is the extraterrestrial sub-plot just another homage to a movie that's
a rip-off of Hal Clement?

"My Bowels are not what they seem"

Scott Le Grand aka sml108@psuvm.psu.edu

In article <15924@bfmny0.BFM.COM> tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM (Tom Neff) writes:
> >In article <1158600093@cdp> forestwatch@cdp.UUCP writes:
>> >>The owls are not what they seem.  Killer Bob is an owl.
>> >>Killer Bob is not what he seems (i.e., a killer).  Ergo:  Killer
>> >>Bob did not kill Laura Palmer.
> >
> >Agreed!  Well thought through.
> >Anthrax Rampant in Kirghizia:    Oo*oO      Tom Neff

What?? No way!  There are all kinds of things about the owls that
aren't what they seem!  This is an absurd jump of logic!
If you believe that L.A. times article, than say so.  Don't
reinterpret every new piece of evidence to insist that it proves
this conclusion, when it does not.  This is not well thought out.

There are many things about the owls that aren't what they seem.
To me we already have our answer what the giant is reffering to,
and that is that the owls are associated with BOB somehow.  
period! Ta da! No theories are demonstrated with it! (though they
might turn out to be true.)

Other things about owls and BOB that aren't what they seem include that
BOB appears as simply human in coops vision, but he is not.  There's 
more to him, perhaps he's a demon, vampire, spirit, whatever.
His powers *might* include invisibility, mind control, 
mind reading, jumping through portals that take him to and from strange 
places.  He able to conceal his true identity to Laura for 6+ years,
and TP viewers forever. :)  
There is so much about BOB that isn't what it seems,
that it is ridiculous to think "the owls are not what they seem"
means that BOB isn't Laura's killer.  I don't pretend to understand
what really happened in that train car, you shouldn't either. :)
I am on a nightmare of a terminal, apologies to all.

Michael Kaye    horny@ucscb.ucsc.edu
"look it's trying to think"

In article <ob2soz_00Vo9IXyrsG@andrew.cmu.edu> es2j+@andrew.cmu.edu (Edward John Sabol) writes:
> >But for a brief second I think it showed Laura's face, and I've never
> >seen anything so evil or scary or disturbing. Killer Bob looked like a pussy-
> >cat in comparison.

I'm not convinced he's what we think he is.


-- Bernie Roehl, University of Waterloo Electrical Engineering Dept Mail: broehl@watserv1.waterloo.edu OR broehl@watserv1.UWaterloo.ca BangPath: {allegra,decvax,utzoo,clyde}!watmath!watserv1!broehl Voice: (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]

In article <8789@milton.u.washington.edu> twain@blake.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin) writes:

[On how Hawk's girlfriend Diane's Ph.D. is:]

>>> >>>Probably Sanscrit.        

So I sez:

>> >>Um. . . why?

> >Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.  I meant it as a joke.  

Well, geez, I knew *that*.  I just didn't *get* the joke.

> >However, let me put my Agent Cooper hair on:  Sanscrit because it is 
> >an ancient language of India, where the Buddha was born.  

Uh huh. . .

> >The study of it is very esoteric; for instance, Jeffrey Masson, he of
> >the expose _In the Freud Archives_, has a Ph.D. in Sanscrit.

Not *that* esoteric--we taught Sanskrit to undergrads in my old
department at Michigan.  I've even been known to utter a few words of
it myself now and then.  I just didn't see what the connection was to
Hawk's girlfriend.  But never mind, I spose.

-- Rod Johnson * rjohnson@vela.acs.oakland.edu * (313) 650 2315 "Dogs bark at strangers" -- Heraclitus

1) Space Aliens? Supernatural Beings? Killer Bobs From Another Dimension?
   Talking Logs? Whatever happens, I can handle it because NOTHING Lynch
   could possibly come up with is as highly improbable as the fact
   that he has a Soap Opera airing on Prime Time Network TV!

2) Here in Chicago the opening credits were different than usual. The
   shot of the bird and the sawblades were cut out. Was it that way
   everywhere? If so, could it have been a reference to the mill
   burning down? No mill-no sawblades.

3) Ok, so who's Lucy been sleeping with?
   a) Cooper-No way, he wasn't in town.
   b) Harry-possible, if he's been seeing Josie for only six weeks
      maybe he & Lucy were having an affair before. The timing is
      good. I don't think so though. They are too natural together.
      There's no sense of tension between them at all.
   c) Hawk-no, he seems to go for well-educated classy women. Lucy
      is smarter than she sometimes appears, but just doesn't seem
      his type.
   d) There are other deputies around that we haven't really met,
      but I tend to think that it's going to be someone we all know.
   e) For some silly and illogical reason, I keep seeing Lucy and
      Jerry Horne together. I'm not seriously suggesting he's the
      one, but if he wern't such a sleezy scumbag, they'd make a cute
      couple.
   f) Until Lynch tells us who it is, the only way to get clues is
      to re-watch the earlier episodes and look for a place where
      Lucy seems uncomfortable with someone. Can anyone think of an
      instance?
   g) Possibly she was raped, but that's not very likely. She doesn't
      act like such a traumatic experience has happened to her recently.
   h) As long as we're talking about Lucy, Kimmy Robertson is making
      a guest appearance (she'll be singing!) on Roger McGuinn's 
      comeback album. It's due for release in February.

4) A small city the size of Twin Peaks would have a local police 
   department, besides a Sheriffs Office. Why haven't we seen any
   local cops? I grew up in a city of 35,000 and we had both.

5) Re: Cooper meeting Maddy. I just can't let this go. 

   I think it's an insult to Cooper's intelligence and observational
   powers to say that he didn't notice Maddy at Laura's funeral.
   My God SHE WAS RIGHT THERE! Sunglasses or no, that mouth is pretty
   unique. Cooper had not only seen Laura up close and dead, he's seen
   the photos in her house and the videotape she, Donna and James made.
   The main reason he was at the funeral was to check out people to see
   who came and who didn't (he sure noticed that Jacoby wasn't there)
   and watch how the people there acted. He would have seen when Leland
   and Sarah arrived. He would have seen that there was someone with
   them. He would have seen that that woman bore some resemblance to
   Laura. Family resemblance. 

   We don't always have to assume that, if we haven't seen it happen 
   onscreen then it didn't happen. My theory is that Cooper was
   introduced to Maddy before the service began. He probably filed her
   under "possible link/cousin/lived in another state at time of 
   Laura's death/not high priority to interview at this time/Amazing
   Resemblence!" 

   One thing about TP--it's making time slow down. BTP (Before Twin Peaks)
   weeks & months used to zip by. DTP (During Twin Peaks) every week lasts
   at least a month, waiting for the next episide. Fine by me 'cause I'll
   stay young longer :-)

Vickie
katefans@world.std.com

In article <7567@darkstar.ucsc.edu>, c2h5oh@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Idealistic Bibliomy
stic) writes:
> > 
> > In article <1990Oct3.212955.33891@eagle.wesleyan.edu> ggrosz@eagle.wesleyan.
edu writes:
>> >>
>> >>- No question about it.  The character I'd like to see most brought to TP has
>> >>got to be Diane Shapiro, PhD, Brandeis.  What is Hawk's current relationship
>> >>with her, anyway?
> > 
> > Diane Shapiro? DIANE Shapiro? Hmmm....
> > 
Nah, take off.  Dont'cha think Coop woulda known if it had been her?

Unless you're talking about someone else, that is...

+---------------------------+--------------------------------------------------+
| Gerry Grosz               | "If I had a boat, I'd go out on the ocean.  If I |
| ggrosz@eagle.wesleyan.edu | had a pony, I'd ride him on my boat." - L.Lovett |
+---------------------------+-----------------+--------------------------------+
| "Diane, I am now holding in my hand a       | I had a quote here, but I guess|
| small box of chocolate bunnies." - D.Cooper | it was unoriginal.   - ggrosz  |
+---------------------------------------------+--------------------------------+

For those of you with VCR's ....
Of course these are spoilers !   Anyway.
  - Ronette stares off into the distance and has blurry vision when we
    visit her in the hospital. The sketches of suspects are held by Cooper
    so as to unknowingly block Truman's face from her view.
  - You can hear her yelling "shhshsh"  "trtrr" What do you think she's saying?
  - Top shelf, behind some books, Truman's office. See the Black and white
    picture, the one that looks a great deal like the sketches of Bob. Hmm.
  - What is that necklace Harry is wearing? It was not there before, and it is
    most definately meant to be seen this season.
                                         Gobbledy-guk term, but hey.
  - Bob is, as was rightly pointed out, the socio-viral psychological disease
    of sexual molestation. He is not a specific person, he is at this point at
    least several specific people.  To wit:
      Leland's Uncle?/Grandfather's neighbor -- molests -- Leland
      Leland                                 -- molests -- Laura
      Laura                                  -- molests -- Harold Smith (diary)
      Laura (almost)  "Would you like to play with BoB?" to James
      and of course, Harry S Truman...... but we must wait to see why...
  - You could hear Laura's voice in the reverb of James' singing before
    Maddy joined in. wonderful.
  - Maddy now sees visions because she has taken Laura's place in the household
    as Leland's daughter. I'll even venture that the stain on the carpet was
    Laura's blood from the first time she was cut, as described in the diary,
    by her father raping her.


      Look here, anybody who has any of TP on tape, I offer a friendly
         challenge. Watch it, pretending you know that Harry is the killer.
            When you find yourself complimenting Lynch/Frost on having put
              all of these clues in so early, then you'll see the light.

Quick, will somebody please bet me huge sums of money? I can't find anyone to
bet with here. I accidentally convinced them all.(with the help of my ex-room-
mate.)
  Chris "You can say things against Lynch but I can't heeaar you" Hartleben

In article <Oct.7.15.28.21.1990.27638@remus.rutgers.edu>, yacullo@remus.rutgers
edu (Mike Yacullo) writes:
> > 
> > Has anyone considered the possibility that the message Bobby's father
> > showed Cooper was NOT from outer space, but rather some 'unseen
> > force/personna/whatever'  had simply used Mr. Briggs computer to send
> > a message?
> > 
> > Just my $.02
> > 
> > mike
> > yacullo@topaz.rutgers.edu

Here here!  (Hear hear?)

I agree, and think that it could just be a way of the Giant proving his
validity to Coop.  Hopefully, we'll solve the third clue this forthcoming
episode, and then the Giant will tell Coop the really GOOD stuff!

Just my $.015

+---------------------------+--------------------------------------------------+
| Gerry Grosz               | "If I had a boat, I'd go out on the ocean.  If I |
| ggrosz@eagle.wesleyan.edu | had a pony, I'd ride him on my boat." - L.Lovett |
+---------------------------+-----------------+--------------------------------+
| "Diane, I am now holding in my hand a       | I had a quote here, but I guess|
| small box of chocolate bunnies." - D.Cooper | it was unoriginal.   - ggrosz  |
+---------------------------------------------+--------------------------------+

In article <7636@darkstar.ucsc.edu>, horny@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Michael Kaye) writes:
> > Don't reinterpret every new piece of evidence to insist that it proves
> > this conclusion, when it does not.  This is not well thought out.

> > Other things about owls and BOB that aren't what they seem include that
> > BOB appears as simply human in coops vision, but he is not.  There's 
> > more to him, perhaps he's a demon, vampire, spirit, whatever.
> > His powers *might* include invisibility, mind control, 
> > mind reading, jumping through portals that take him to and from strange 

Geezuz - take your own advice will ya? Maybe he's f*ckin Santa Claus too huh?
My God - a few dreams/visions of a figure and suddenly he's the damn tooth
fairy...... there hasn't been one piece of 'serious' evidence that there
are super-natural beings in this show - only dreams, hallucinations and 
visions - how does this add up to mystical boogie men?????



gln

In article <15924@bfmny0.BFM.COM>, tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM (Tom Neff) writes:
> > In article <1158600093@cdp> forestwatch@cdp.UUCP writes:
>> > >The owls are not what they seem.  Killer Bob is an owl.
>> > >Killer Bob is not what he seems (i.e., a killer).  Ergo:  Killer
>> > >Bob did not kill Laura Palmer.
> > Agreed!  Well thought through.

 Hows about this - owls are not what they seem; cooper sees KB as an
owl - so, KB is not what he seems - that is, he is not an actual
person per se - he does not have long blond hair etc. - he is actually
something/someone else.......

> > that'd be it.  Or it could still be Leo, heck why not.  But I do like
> > Donna for it, finally.  She has the jealousy motive.

They sure do seem to be playing that one up (for this one episode at least).

Is there anything in the diary that would point to Donna as a possible future
killer???

gln

rbj@uunet.UU.NET (Root Boy Jim Cottrell) writes:
> >I just bought some Black Jack (and Clove) gum today. I asked the counter
> >guy how long it had been there, and he said it was a special promo
> >thing that was for a limited time only.

Black Jack, Clove and Beeman's gums are all made only in limited quantities.

You frequently see them only once a year.

They have all been around as long as I can remember, but are frequently
hard to find due to the limited quantities.

Beeman's and Clove are my two favorite flavors of chewing gum.

-Pete Zakel
 (phz@cadence.com or ..!{hpda,versatc,apollo,ucbcad,uunet}!cadence!phz)

Perhaps the owls are actually manufacturers of chewing gum?

-------------> POTENTIAL SPOILER <-------------
















Okay.  I'm not sure where I heard this.  Someplace reliable, I'm pretty sure. 
Anyway, supposedly, Lucy's having this affair with some manager over at Horne's
Dept. Store.  (No, I don't think it's Emory.)

Sorry if I can't give any more info.  But that's what I heard, and I'm sure
we'll be seeing it on TP soon enough.

+---------------------------+--------------------------------------------------+
| Gerry Grosz               | "If I had a boat, I'd go out on the ocean.  If I |
| ggrosz@eagle.wesleyan.edu | had a pony, I'd ride him on my boat." - L.Lovett |
+---------------------------+-----------------+--------------------------------+
| "Diane, I am now holding in my hand a       | I had a quote here, but I guess|
| small box of chocolate bunnies." - D.Cooper | it was unoriginal.   - ggrosz  |
+---------------------------------------------+--------------------------------+

 katefans@world.std.com (Chris'n'Vickie of Chicago) writes:

*3) Ok, so who's Lucy been sleeping with?
*(long, admirably complete list deleted)

You forgot some possibilities:
1)  Lucy is going to give birth to the Messiah!  Another Immaculate
Conception!

2)  Lucy, like some insects and at least two reptile species, has
developed a way to do parthenogenesis.  This means she will give
birth to a clone of herself.

3)  Lucy has been impregnated by a space alien, just like on "Star
Trek:  The Next Generation" when Counselor Troi was impregnated by
a glowing ball of light.

4)  Lucy is going through a false pregnancy.

5)  Lucy's lab results were mixed up at the hospital -- actually, it
is Donna/Maddy/Norma/Shelly/etc. who is pregnant.

6)  Lucy actually has an abdominal tumor (this has actually happened
to real people -- they thought they were pregnant but they actually
had a tumor).

7)  Andy's lab results were mixed up at the sperm bank, and it is
actually Harry/Hank/Leo/Bobby/etc. who is sterile.

I'm sure you guys can come up with others...

Jespah

Someone asked a while ago if people had favorite quotes from Twin Peaks.
Well, I haven't seen anything yet so I am offering my services.  Send
your favorite quotes to me & I'll compile and post them.

Jespah

(I can't believe I actually thought I was going to do serious work
when I got to graduate school!  I wonder if I could declare "Twin
Peaks" one of my areas of specialization for my orals...physiology,
animal behavior, endocrinology, and Twin Peaks...why not?)

[I tried to post this before but don't know if it got on...]

Okay, WHAT'S WITH THE OWLS?!!!

I only got access to this board last week, so if you have all been over
the owls already, please let me know what you think.  Owl references that
I can remember from last season include:

1)  In the premiere, when James and Donna are burying the half-heart
 (while Jacoby watched), a great horned owl was watching them.  In
 fact, I thought maybe that when Sarah Palmer "saw" Jacoby taking the
 necklace, perhaps she was seeing through the eyes of the great horned
 owl.

2)  When Cooper et al. visited the Log Lady, she said something to the
 effect of "The owls can't see us here" when she invited them inside.
 Later, as she described what her log had seen, she said something about
 owls making noise or owls watching, and then said that later on (after
 the screaming), "the owls were silent".  Does anyone have a complete
 transcript of everything the Log Lady has said?  The only thing I
 remember clearly is "My husband was a logging man.  He met the devil.
 Fire is the devil, hiding like a coward in the smoke."  [I loved last
 week's "You wear shiny objects on your chest.  Are you proud?"]

3)  The Giant then said "the owls are not what they seem".  I think
 this was the first time the owls became obviously important to the plot.

4)  Later, the Major showed Cooper a message from outer space saying
 "the owls are not what they seem", presumably a confirmation of the
 Giant's clue.

5)  In a dream later that night, Cooper saw a great horned owl superimposed
 over BOB's face.

So what gives?  The obvious answer is that the Log Lady's "owls" are not
what they seem.  Does this mean they weren't owls at all, but were
actually people (i.e., other people wandering around in the woods, like
maybe the Bookhouse Boys) that the Log Lady insists on calling owls?  Does
it mean they ARE owls, but special, spiritual owls, as in "I heard the
owl call my name"?  Maybe all the Log Lady means is that she heard hooting.
What else could have been hooting?

I want owl theories.  Get cracking, everyone.  :-)

Jespah

[tried to post this before, don't know if it got on]

 bmay@chips.com (Brad May)
 Message-ID: <599@news.chips.com> complains:

*Andy goes from lovable bumbler to total moron: scene with roll of tape,
*talk with Lucy "They informed me I was sterile which I thought meant I
*didn't need to take a bath." (aprox. quote).  SHEESH!  Same for Lucy.
*Note after she pulls tape off Andy's head she is still trying to get it
*off her own fingers when scene cuts.  Also where she hangs up on caller.
*Some of this is funny, my point is that all the deveopment of these char-
*acters is scrapped and they become one-dimensional stereotypes.

I totally agree with this.  I was really annoyed by some scenes in the
season premiere, too -- Andy staggering around like an owl on DDT (yes,
I have seen an owl on DDT), for instance.  Truman, Lucy, et al. were
also acting strangely; I found it odd that when Cooper woke up after
having been shot three times(!) NONE of them asked how he was!  I felt
like that friendship that had been growing between Cooper and Truman
was just something I had imagined.

*Albert has lost his cynical edge.  We loose a great character and foil for
*Cooper's character.

No, this I don't agree with.  I *love* Albert!  I especially loved how
he said "So, has anyone seen Bob on earth in the last few weeks?"  He's
like an anchor of cynicism and relative normality in a swirling sea
of magicians and owls.  Especially now that Twin Peaks seems to be
wheeling off into weirder and weirder things -- which I like, actually --
Albert's  unshakable twentieth-century skepticism is more and more
important.   "King Hohoho"!!  Albert is great!

*It looks like the "Without chemicals he points" clue refers to Leland
*(without hair dye) pointing at BOB's poster in Ben Horne office.

Wait -- Leland never has used hair dye, has he?  So why would he be
any more "without chemicals" than any of the other characters?

*There is still funny stuff: Opening scene, Cooper expounding on 5th century
*Tibetan Bhuddism while barbershop quarted sings.  Scene with stools in
*Ronette'sroom was classic Lynch.  But while we get a couple good scenes, the
*plot goes to hell, and the show is drifting.

Yeah, I loved that barbershop quarter and those STOOLS!  Especially since
I once TA'd a lab class where all the stools were that kind.  They're
really difficult to figure out.  I must have demonstrated how to lower
those stools about fifty times.
And overall, I really liked the 1st episode.  Once you accept the fact
that it's getting spacier and spacier, you can enjoy it even more.  After
all, this is FICTION.  How many of you saw "Alien" or "Back to the Future"
and sat there grumbling "This isn't possible!  Time travel is a ridiculous
idea!  Extraterrestrials indeed!  This is too flaky for me!"  Few, I'll bet.
You just accept that it's fiction, and enjoy the ride.

The only thing that's bugging me is the growing two-dimensionality (?
shrinking three-dimensionality?  flattening two-dimensionality?) of some
of the supporting characters, namely Lucy and Andy.

*Or am I just cranky because I have to go back to work?

You're just cranky.  :-)

Jespah

More stuff from ze diary.

Lucy and Andy are scanning fleshworlds for Theresa Banks.
I think they might find the very page of fleshworld Jacques 
gives to Laura.

pg. 120 around christmas 87'
  [jacques gives a christmas present to laura]

"..When I opened it, I realized the wrapper was a folded,
torn-out page from Fleshworld, showing a guy built kind of like 
Jaqcues, kneeling in front of a really pretty blond girl. I think she
was the prettiest girl I'd ever seen in that magazine.  In the photo,
this girl was almost naked with a parrot on her shoulder, and the
man was kissing her feet like he adored her.  At the bottom of the
page, Jacques had written, "Thinking of you, fantasy girl."

hum.  Maybe the girl in the picture is Theresa Banks, and the
guy who is built "kind of like Jacques" is Jacques.  
Laura has a similar picture of her taken at the Jacques cabin, 
with a mynah bird on her shoulder.  Not that I know what to make 
of any of this or anything :) It would give a previously non-existant 
connection between Laura and Theresa, and maybe Jacques.

Michael Kaye   horny@ucscb.ucsc.edu
"Say it isn't so Krusty!"

In article <26165@megaron.cs.arizona.edu> gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary Newell)
writes:
> >
> >Also, why would they fire Laura from OEJ's for drug use???!!!?? The whole
> >place is full of druggies and is managed by a junkie? 

I don't think she WAS fired for drug use...that was just a convenient 
excuse.  Blackie didn't like her anymore.  At least, that's the impression
that I got.

Brian

In article <1990Oct2.031402.20048@alembic.acs.com> csu@alembic.acs.com (Dave Mack) writes:
> >In article <1990Oct1.143739@cs.Buffalo.EDU> mathews@cs.Buffalo.EDU (Ryan D Mathews) writes:
>> >>"There is a man in a smiling bag"

I was waiting to see a man in a Glad bag... 8-)

> >"One has seen the third man. Three have seen him, yes... but not his
> >body. One only, known to you, ready to speak."
> >
> >The three who have seen the third man are Sarah Palmer and Cooper
> >himself, in visions. The third, of course, is Ronette Pulaski who
> >is out of her coma and ready to speak.

Now here's where I want to disagree.  Ronette is *not* ready to speak;
remember Cooper's comment to Albert about her not being able to talk yet?

I have a hard time believing that this was something overlooked by Lynch and
Frost; so what could it mean?

-- -----------------+ Sean Eric Fagan | "Never knock on Death's door: ring the bell and seanf@sco.COM | run away! Death really hates that!" uunet!sco!seanf | -- Dr. Mike Stratford (Matt Frewer, "Doctor, Doctor") (408) 458-1422 | Any opinions expressed are my own, not my employers'.

In article <26178@megaron.cs.arizona.edu> gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary Newell) writes:
> >In article <7636@darkstar.ucsc.edu>, horny@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Michael Kaye) writes:
>> >> Don't reinterpret every new piece of evidence to insist that it proves
>> >> this conclusion, when it does not.  This is not well thought out.
> >
>> >> Other things about owls and BOB that aren't what they seem include that
>> >> BOB appears as simply human in coops vision, but he is not.  There's 
>> >> more to him, perhaps he's a demon, vampire, spirit, whatever.
>> >> His powers *might* include invisibility, mind control, 
>> >> mind reading, jumping through portals that take him to and from strange 
> >
> >Geezuz - take your own advice will ya? Maybe he's f*ckin Santa Claus too huh?
> >My God - a few dreams/visions of a figure and suddenly he's the damn tooth
> >fairy...... there hasn't been one piece of 'serious' evidence that there
> >are super-natural beings in this show - only dreams, hallucinations and 
> >visions - how does this add up to mystical boogie men?????
> >gln

Yeah!  Tell him!  HAhA!

Your Santa Claus theory is correct!  I've seen the light!  So help me BOB!
Sarah Palmer, Madeline, Laura and even Leland all have had visions
of BOB because they were victimized by Santa Claus as children,
forced to chant horribly tacky rhymes and pray to fat bearded men.

You know that vision of Ronette's where BOB is violently thrusting
up and down?  IT ISN'T WHAT IT SEEMS!! BOB actually is stuffing
Ronette's stocking, which was a little tight for his large knockwurst
sausage.  Why is BOB so terrifying?  HE KNOWS IF YOU'VE BEEN NAUGHTY
OR NICE.  Think about it!!  In the diary BOB admits to knowing all, seeing
all!  Laura strives to reform, but she cannot, so well BOB (santa claus)
has no choice but to teach her a lesson.  Laura's obsessive behaivior
leads her to take inordinate amounts of cocaine BECAUSE IT REMINDS
HER OF THE SNOW ASSOCIATED WITH HER BELOVED (and yet dreaded) SANTA CLAUS.
Laura takes sadistic pleasure in taking secret trips to the woods
to hunt deer and eat venison, and even sneaks off to NRA meetings.

I don't know where you got that tooth fairy idea though.
You know, you are really out there sometimes.

Michael Kaye    horny@ucscb.ucsc.edu

How come Mrs Tremont (et Pierre!) are NOT the `Dumont's????

Maybe Major Briggs is going to buy the farm soon?? I.e. his vision
relates a type of passing on to his son, and relating the extragalactic
message rather completes his purpose in life?? (What is anyone's purpose
in life anyway?)

What happened to the eerie background music?

As far as I can see from reading the newsgroup, everyone accepts
what the Major is saying. I think it's possible the Major is as
weird as anyone else, why not? After all, what he shows Cooper is
what some of us would call his 'log.' So his log has a message for
Agent Cooper. There is no real indication that there is a secret
installation in Twin Peaks, is there? I cannot recall having seen
anyone else in uniform. And people with classified information
will (usually) not pass it out, even to repected FBI agents that
they have met for the first time in a diner, yet alone remove
calssified documents from their place of work. I have to believe
this is another red-herring.


-- Terry Monks Automata Design Inc (703) 472-9400

> >bmay@chips.com (Brad May) writes:
>> >>Is is just me, or is anybody else very dissapointed in Episode 1 (10-6)?

[reasons deleted, some good, some bad]

Yup, count me in.  The thing that pissed me off the most was the outrageously
stupid musical scene.

******************************************************************************
Mike Cluff*   One who knows does not post;
v22964qs@ubvms or mike%luick@ubvms*       One who posts does not know.
UB Language Perception Laboratory*         (apologies to Lao Tzu)
******************************************************************************

In article <2844@jaytee.East.Sun.COM> msmiller@Sun.COM (Mark Miller) writes:
> >And Andy fighting with the tape. Another cute little sight gag.

What struck me about that scene was not a sight gag -- it
was a sound gag.  Radio's customary use for cellophane was
to create the sound effect ... of a fire, crackling and 
popping.  Note that while the crackling goes on (and on),
the poster for BOB is prominent next to Andy.
Dave Suesszeus@aerospace.aero.org

I just realized something. Ronette's vision of the scene at the railroad car
is what *Ronette* saw.

I predict that we will learn that *Laura* attacked Ronette. Ronette remembers
Laura as pure evil. Perhaps Laura was trying to kill her as a present to BOB,
but something happened...too muck coke ala Len Bias, maybe. Ronette escaped
while BOB tried to revive Laura.

-
Perry Donham
Educational Services                               "Vulcans never bluff."
Digital Equip. Corp.                                                   -Spock
-

In article <1990Oct8.225740.34102@eagle.wesleyan.edu> ggrosz@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
   In article <Oct.7.15.28.21.1990.27638@remus.rutgers.edu>, yacullo@remus.rutgers
   edu (Mike Yacullo) writes:
   > Has anyone considered the possibility that the message Bobby's father
   > showed Cooper was NOT from outer space, but rather some 'unseen
   > force/personna/whatever'  had simply used Mr. Briggs computer to send
   > a message?
   I agree, and think that it could just be a way of the Giant proving his
   validity to Coop.  Hopefully, we'll solve the third clue this forthcoming
   episode, and then the Giant will tell Coop the really GOOD stuff!

Indeed, it is very likely that the message was added after the
transmission was received.  The entire printout contained slash,
letter, digit, digit, digit, slash, etc.  There weren't any other
combinations of letters that I could see (someone could check this by
freeze-framing, if you care).  So, it seems that none of the space-noise
is being translated into anything resembling words.  If this is true,
and all the noise becomes these letter-and-three-digit symbols, there
would be no way of sending a signal which would become the message to
Cooper.  On the other hand, it would be trivial (well, comparatively) to
insert the appropriate characters into the file which was printed or
into the data being sent to the printer -- probably into the file, since
I would think that would be the first thing they would check...that the
printout matched what was printed.

Muffy

   f) Until Lynch tells us who it is, the only way to get clues is
      to re-watch the earlier episodes and look for a place where
      Lucy seems uncomfortable with someone. Can anyone think of an
      instance?

       ALBERT!

When Cooper showed Ronette Pulaski the drawing of Bob, while
freaking out she kept saying the same word over and over again.
It sounded like "duress" (as in "she was held under duress")
or "dress."  Any clues in that?

****************************************************************
* Greg Sandell (sandell@ils.nwu.edu)              Evanston, IL *
* Institute for the Learning Sciences, Northwestern University *
****************************************************************

I was confused by B &J's ledger discussion at first too, until I realized
that Ben is lieing to his brother.
  Doug

horny@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Michael Kaye) writes:
>> >>   I agree with those posters who have identified Jerry Horne as BOB (brother
>> >>of Ben).  
> >
> >Jerry is one of the few characters we can near absolutely rule out.  
> >He was in France when Laura was murdered.

So HE says.  I don't believe we've ever been offerred any independent
confirmation of same.  In fact, Jerry has been my prime suspect since
he was introduced, because his alibi is apparently airtight and there
has been no investigation of him.

It's not really a valid reason, but I also suspected him because of
external associations--the actor, David Patrick Kelly, always plays
anti-social creeps, most memorably in "The Warriors."
-- Dennis Doubleday (dd@sei.cmu.edu) _ /| Software Engineering Institute \'o.O' Carnegie Mellon University ACK! PTHFT! =(___)= Pittsburgh, PA 15213 (412)268-5873 U

"Through the darkness of future past
the magician longs to see
 One chants out between two worlds
Fire, walk with me."


So, is the little boy with the creamed corn the Magician mentioned above?


Frank.

In article <26165@megaron.cs.arizona.edu> gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary Newell) writes:
> >Also, why would they fire Laura from OEJ's for drug use???!!!?? The whole place
> >is full of druggies and is managed by a junkie? 

Perhaps Laura's drug use was so severe that she couldn't function in 
her capacity as "hospitality girl".

-- Scott Amspoker Basis International, Albuquerque, NM (505) 345-5232 unmvax.cs.unm.edu!bbx!bbxsda!scott

In article <12973@sdcc6.ucsd.edu> ma299ai@sdcc6.ucsd.edu (Jan Bielawski) writes:
> >In article <1990Oct4.013458.16639@supernet.haus.com> cluther@supernet.haus.com (Clay Luther) writes:
> ><
> ><Yes, the giant's voice did fade in and out, in regular intervals, and in
> ><three volume states.  He would be loud for about a second, normal for about
> ><a second, quiet for a second, normal, and loud again, until he stopped 
> ><talking.                                
> >
> >Not here.  The giant's voice stayed at the same volume throughout.
> >I suspect the fade in/out effect had something to do with the surround
> >encoding.  Maybe it tricked some cable boxes into raising/lowering the
> >volume. 
> >

For those tracking the sound drops (which also occurred in the first
season), I have been able to establish the following.

The giant's voice did *not* drop out as viewed on a Rochester, New
York cable system. The voice *did* drop in the Chicago area on *both*
cable and over-the-air broadcasts.

So, I am pretty certain it is not a Lynch trick. Perhaps it has
something to do with the network satellite feed to the midwest (and
maybe points west.)


--
---------------------------
Peter B. Hayward                                              N9IZT            
University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Marriage proposals considered Tuesdays and Fridays from 1 pm to 8 pm

In article <1990Oct9.073905.21399@agate.berkeley.edu>,
brianm@typhoon.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Markenson) writes:
> > In article <26165@megaron.cs.arizona.edu> gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary
Newell)
> > writes:
>> > >
>> > >Also, why would they fire Laura from OEJ's for drug use???!!!?? The
whole
>> > >place is full of druggies and is managed by a junkie? 
> > 
> > I don't think she WAS fired for drug use...that was just a convenient
> > excuse.  Blackie didn't like her anymore.  At least, that's the
impression
> > that I got.

As per the diary, Laura and Blackie had a pecking order beef,
with Blackie claiming to be the most adept of anyone in
the house at their business.  Laura took a dare and showed
Blackie up in a lesbian encounter by bringing her to the
brink of purportedly incredible ecstasy, proving that Laura
was the better of the two.  Then Laura walked away without
finishing this business, leaving Blackie frustrated and
furious.


------------------
Paul Raveling
Raveling@Unify.com

> > 13) My theory, which is mine, is that Colonel Mustard did it in the
> > Lounge, with the Candlestick.  Which reminds me, Bobby's dad is most
> > certainly a Major and not a Colonel.  He's got oak leaves on his shoulders,
> > not eagles.  So he's a Major, okay?

Not OK.

  Brass Oak Leaves - Major
  Silver Oak Leaves - Lt. Colonel
  Silver Eagles - Full Colonel

I agree they are oak leaves, but what flavor?

Bob

All things considered (more or less) I think the biggest clue we have
so far is Jennifer Lynch (author of Laura's Diary) being quoted
somewhere that she thinks people will be really surprised when they
find out who the killer is.  Ben Horne is NOT surprising.  Neither is
Leo.  Neither Ben nor Leo did it, guaranteed.

--
B<   Brian Kahn   blk@security.mitre.org   "may the farce be with you"

With all of these half-baked theories coming out, I suppose it's time for
a few that are fully baked (Yeah I saw the Graduate).  :-)

  1.  Pete Martell knows more about what is going on than most folks think.
      "She's dead, wrapped in plastic."  The body is face down in pretty
      non-see-through plastic.  How'd old Pete know it was a she?

  2.  The fingernail letters 'T' and 'R' are spelling out 'Trollop' and 
      provide a definite link to Flesh World.


Bob [mostly a :-)]

A few scatter misc. observations.
TP is about ( among *lots* of other things ) dualities and dichotomies.
The twin ( 3! ) sets of Mike and Bob teams.
Also is about the seen ( good ) and hidden(!) ( evil ).
When something is missing it is always the left ( evil ) hand side.
We are given clues on how to view clues.
The Major tells us about visions.
Albert points out that -nobody- has -really- seen Killer Bob. He just
appears in visions. Beware of visions.
Maybe Cooper et al tranfers the presence of Mike ( shoe saleman ) and 
Bob ( the vet ) to the visionary ( dream state ) Mike ( one armed man )
and Killer Bob.

More misc.
Was that Jerry behind the tree ( last season ) when Leo was ( not )
picking up the drugs from Bobby ( "Leo needs a new pair of shoes?" ).
Watch for a Hong Kong/Josie/drug connection. 
Why is everyone sure that Leo put the drugs under the boards? Bobby is
our horticulturist ( a plant expert ) and sure wanted Leo out of the way.
And maybe Bobby popped the transient for the Hank/Josie deal?
And whate is the connection between the Major and Hank? Vietnam, drugs?

The killer is Leland. Logic as follows: Were definately sexual feelings
( on some level ) twixt him and Laura. He finds out about her cabin
escapade and follows, etc. The Log Lady seems a prime candidate for "the
one who saw..."

Some musings.
Is Cooper getting dumber, or what? Loss of blood?
Wish Nadine had different patches for outfits. ( A white satin patch! )
And betcha that was her prom dance dress.
Leland's white hair might be so people can tell Leland from Ben.
Possibly saw smiling bag before in morgue one armed man soliloquy.
Leland shot Cooper as well. Only one walking that night. Look for
Leland/Mattie interaction.
 
Got the second episode on tape? Fast forward ( watching ) the hospital
scene with Shelley, Doc and Coma Leo. Weird slow motion strobing.

And yeppers, that is SON-O-LYNCH holding the cream corn.
She's been hyp-no-tized...

And they better start "telling" some stuff, or TP will be canceled.

Ron ( rcarter@isis.cs.du.edu ) "Think of it as evolution in process..."

In article <7484@darkstar.ucsc.edu> c2h5oh@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Idealistic Bibliomystic) writes:
> >Cooper: Where did you come from?
> >Giant: The question is, where have you _gone_.
> >Many ways to interpret this, but the general atmosphere makes me
> >think that the giant has not come to Cooper, but that Cooper has
> >reached some new place or stage, similar to his dream-state but

Or it could be a reference to Cooper's past. This week's show talked
about Cooper's now crazy ex-partner who has escaped from the hospital
he was being kept in ..... it could be foreshadowing his appearance
in the show ....

Paul

-- Paul Campbell UUCP: ..!mtxinu!taniwha!paul AppleLink: CAMPBELL.P What most people don't realize is that those plastic cover slips that your 3 inch floppies come in are actually condoms for protecting your computer from harmfull computer viruses - practice safe computing ..... :-)

In article <9777@ur-cc.UUCP> clc5_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (BOB) writes:
> >                             Yummy Fir,

As in, Big Ed the Happy Clown!!!!  B^)

Sorry.

 Bill Sherman sherman@math.ucla.edu
Just on the border of your waking mind, there lies another time where
darkness and light are one; and as you tread the halls of sanity, you feel
so glad to be unable to go beyond.  I have a message from another time. -ELO

What follows is an article from last Friday's New York Times that may
have a spoiler in it (it does not indicate who killed LP, by the way).

The French words spoken by the "magician" were:

   C'est un homme sur de terre.

Which means: It is a man underground.

This appears to relate to what we have heard about the European version of
TP in which Killer BOB is found to be hiding (living?) in the basement of
the hospital.

Any other guesses given this translation?
-- Bruce G. Matthews, P.Eng. Be - as a page that aches for a word BGM Human Factors Engineering which speaks on a theme that is timeless. bgm@dretor.dciem.dnd.ca - Neil Diamond from J.L.S.

In article <39395@eerie.acsu.Buffalo.EDU> pjg@acsu.buffalo.edu (Paul Graham) writes:
|but i was right about the space aliens.

There are lots of down-to-earth (:-)) ways the message to Cooper could
have got into Major Briggs' reams of gibberish.  It wasn't necessarily
actually from aliens.
-- Brian L. Matthews blm@6sceng.UUCP

In article <1990Oct8.213209.16790@athena.mit.edu>, patl@athena.mit.edu (Patrick J. LoPresti) writes:
|> In article <12627789439009@OSU-20.IRCC.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
|> PUTNAM-L@OSU-20.IRCC.OHIO-STATE.EDU (Lee Putnam) writes:
|> >
|> > -Lynch has entered the realm of sci-fi and that is great. I now intend to sit
|> > back and watch many of you bicker about the "absurdity" of TP.
|>
|> Entering the realm of sci-fi is fine, as long as it's GOOD sci-fi.  The
|> "message from outer space" scene, with Cooper's awe-struck "Oh, my God"
|> could have come from any bad B movie.

Oh, come off it!  Lynch makes fun of soap operas the first season (Cooper says
something like "I only have two questions: who shot J.R....", _Invitation to Love_,
etc.) and it is acceptable to most people.

In the second season he satirizes (bad, as you say) sci-fi (the giant, the space
aliens, BOB, the log lady...it's starting to sound like a bad "Twilight Zone"
episode, actually) and everyone suddenly starts taking him seriously.  Didn't
the very first scene of the season opener clue you in at all; take all this
stuff with a grain of salt.
 
|> IM(not so)HO, Lynch has gravely misjudged his audience in throwing this
|> trash at us.  No longer just adding spice, the supernatural has taken
|> over the show.

Perhaps he has misjudged the audience.  My guess is that he felt that after the
first season he would have an audience that would be able to roll with the punches
without crying uncle.
 
|> Aside from one-liners, Twin Peaks just isn't that good this season.

Then don't watch it and quit whining.
 
|> -Pat
|> "Has anyone seen Bob on earth in the last few weeks?"

In article <7581@darkstar.ucsc.edu> horny@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Michael Kaye) writes:
|Jerry is one of the few characters we can near absolutely rule out.  
|He was in France when Laura was murdered.

It wouldn't be the first time that a character that was supposedly out of
the country flew back early, committed the crime, and then appeared later
as if he/she had just arrived back.

|Ben is the one who suggests eliminating Leland, not Jerry.
|Was Ben serious when he suggested killing Leland?  Or was he just
|making a smart crack, prompted by Lelands counter productive phone call?

I think he was just frustrated at another screw-up by Leland, especially
after how strange Leland has been acting lately.  In one of
last season's shows, Ben tells Jerry something like "get a net, and
get him out of here".  He was obviously upset then at Leland.

Also, Leland seemed to be headed for the sheriff right after he recognized
BOB, so they'd have to hurry to catch him, which they didn't.
-- Brian L. Matthews blm@6sceng.UUCP

In article <1990Oct7.214640.1173@theep.boston.ma.us> maj@theep.boston.ma.us (Meryl A. Joseph) writes:
|Just a few basic thoughts:  
| - - I am curious why no one has mentioned the extremely likely
|possibility that BOB is the mysterious shut-in "Mr. Smith", Laura's
|"friend" on the Meals on Wheels program.

This was discussed a few weeks ago.  As with most theories, there
wasn't any consensus.  Some things point to him being BOB, others
indicate there's no way he could be BOB.

|- - Does Shelly really want Leo as a vegetable at home with her, so 
|she and Bobby can "hang donuts from his ears?"  Scaarry kids!

$5000 a month can be a great incentive.

|- - Something interesting - - Maddy got rid of her glasses, and still
|is hallucinating re: scary stuff and Killer BOBs.  

This could be evidence that Laura is alive.  She killed Maddy and took
over her life to try to escape from BOB.  But BOB found her anyways.

On the other hand, I don't think Laura would have been as frightened
of BOB as Maddy.  Near the end of her diary, Laura seems to have
come to terms somewhat with BOB, where she still hated him, but
wasn't really afraid of him.

On the third hand :-), if Laura thought she had got away from BOB,
she might be that frightened when she discovers she hasn't.

|- - Some great one-liners last night.  My personal favorite:  Jerry
|to Ben Horne:  "I am 100% certain that we are not sure!"

Jerry's one of my favorite characters.  He's always saying fun
things, and he certainly loves to eat and party!
-- Brian L. Matthews blm@6sceng.UUCP

rcarter@isis.cs.du.edu (Ron Carter) writes...
> >Why is everyone sure that Leo put the drugs under the boards? Bobby is
> >our horticulturist ( a plant expert ) and sure wanted Leo out of the way.

Bobby didn't have any drugs at the time.  Remember Leo in the forest?
If Bobby had that much dope he woulda offered some to Leo just not to
get shot.  Plus the connection between Leo's needing a new pair of boots
is just a bit too obvious.

> >And whate is the connection between the Major and Hank? Vietnam, drugs?

Why does there have to be a connection?  Maybe Hank is just putting on his
good side.  Though it would be interesting to have a 'Nam drug connection...

> >The killer is Leland. Logic as follows: [deleted]

The killer is not Leland.  Logic as follows:  Theresa Banks was killed
elsewhere in the state.  Nobody in Twin Peaks would commit a second similar
crime that close to home.  Of course if you postulate mental illness then
anybody can be guilty...

"Without chemicals he points" is a reference to Leo.  Logic as follows:
"Smiling bag" refers to Jacques as we have seen, "Owls" are likely a
reference to Killer Bob given the owlface in Cooper's dream.  It would
make sense to identify the 3rd of 3 men involved with Laura the night
of her death.  This is all the giant's way of telling Cooper the giant
knows who is involved, and we can expect to see further clarifying (?)
clues in the future.

Maybe Audrey's fan club should form a vigilante posse and rescue her
from OEJs.

  John, speaking for myself

-Message-Text-Follows-
we've just caught with the heavy message flow and have
a few quck observations.

1.  Waiter who comes across Cooper on floor is mad in THE SEARCHERS and 
keeps saying "thank you, thank you kindly". But in same movie John Wayne
and partner meet mad woman in fort who has been tortured by Indians. In
her arms she cradles a log as if it were a baby. There has been a very
strong Indian imagery in TP, particularly at beginning. Violation of sacred
forests (Ghostwood Estates), nature, etc.

2. "The owls are not what they seem." In cheap pulp fiction a line like
that would mean that men in the forest are making owl noises. Also, the
technical term for an owl's ears is "horns".

3. The main problem with the first show was that it was two hours long.
TP should stick to one-hour slot.

4. Anybody notice the 2001 food in the hospital with a kick! Prelude to
sci-fi imagery in subsequent episode.

5. Ronnette Pulaski=Roman Polanski. Rosemary's Baby about to arrive?

6. Paramount Picture contrasted with Twin Peaks. Look at logo for town
on billboard on outskirts and then examine logo of Paramount Pictures.
Very similar. But Lynchian duality contrasted with monolithic (paramount)
Hollywood fare.

7. Fire can destroy wood but ice can put out fire and ice can
 also be melted by fire  but ice can't hurt wood (like paper, scissors,
stone). The Hornes sit at the center of the ice-fire-wood nexus. Ben and
Jerry's icecream, "we have to burn SOMETHING" (plus arson of mill), and
they want to control the woods (mill and Ghostwood Estates). Also both
are dealing with the Icelanders who "live above the timberline".
Characters in TP can be divided according to wood (e.g. the log lady), 
fire (e.g. Donna who now smokes) and ice (e.g. Mr Frosty getting his 
"rocks" off). The shows key resolutions are a) the woods will win by
being preserved from the ravages of man b) it will end in a great 
conflagration which will make the burning of the mill look like a 
boyscouts' bonfire c) the Icelanders and their like will build Ghostwood
and still the town's passions and torments. In any case, the brothers
Horne will be at the center of the final resolution.



Diarmuid Maguire                    Hillard Pouncy

In article <BLK.90Oct9123309@vanity.mitre.org>, blk@mitre.org (Brian L. Kahn) writes:

|> 
|> All things considered (more or less) I think the biggest clue we have
|> so far is Jennifer Lynch (author of Laura's Diary) being quoted
|> somewhere that she thinks people will be really surprised when they
|> find out who the killer is.  Ben Horne is NOT surprising.  Neither is
|> Leo.  Neither Ben nor Leo did it, guaranteed.
|> 
|> --
|> B<   Brian Kahn   blk@security.mitre.org   "may the farce be with you"

Isn't there a logic problem called something like the "hangman's paradox"?
I think it goes like this:

The guilty party is told by the judge that he will be executed at dawn
some day within the next week, but that he [the guilty party] will not know when
this will occur until that very day.

After thinking about this for some time, the guilty party recognizes
something:  he cannot be executed on the last day of the week.  After all, if the
first 6 mornings pass without incident, then he will know late into the 6th day
that he execution must happen "tommorrow".  However, the judge told him that he
would not know until the day it is going to happen.

Likewise, once the first 5 mornings pass by, the prisoner will know that,
because he cannot be executed on the 7th day, the only day left is the 6th.  But
then again, he would have the foreknowledge that the judge's statement claimed
that he would not have.

The same argument continues until we discover that his execution must occur
on the very next day, but that it cannot, because he has just concluded so, and
therefore "knows" that it must be the day.

Therefore the prisoner is content the knowing that the sentence cannot be
carried out, because it is paradoxical.

Now here's the neat part.  Because the prisoner has "proved" that none
of the days may be "the big one", they are all fair game.  The prisoner will be
equally surprised no matter which day it occurs because he believes that the event
cannot happen at all.  By logically analyzing the situation, he has reduced it to
the original scenerio.

So if you assume that neither Ben nor Leo did it, "guaranteed", then you
will definitely be surprised if either one DOES turn out to be the killer...thus
making Jennifer's statement true.  So much for the "biggest clue we have so far"...

David E. Hollingsworth

Excerpts from netnews.alt.tv.twin-peaks: 9-Oct-90 Re: TP: Confusion
about Mil.. Doug vanderVeen@andrew.c (116)

> > I was confused by B &J's ledger discussion at first too, until I realized
> > that Ben is lieing to his brother.

I don't believe that, mainly because the way Ben said it, it doesn't
make any sense even as a lie.  "The real ledger, masterminded by
Catherine..."  You don't mastermind a real ledger, you mastermind a
phony ledger.  Real ledgers just happen.

Could this be another continuity slip, like the AB- blood and the
superfast lunar cycle?  Oh, how distressing.

______________                  _____________________________
Bob Glickstein                | Internet: bobg@andrew.cmu.edu
Information Technology Center | Bitnet:   bobg%andrew@cmuccvma.bitnet
Carnegie Mellon University    | UUCP:     ...!harvard!andrew.cmu.edu!bobg
Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890    |
(412) 268-6743                | Sinners can repent, but stupid is forever

In article <39729@eerie.acsu.Buffalo.EDU>,
v22964qs@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Mike Cluff) writes:
>> > >bmay@chips.com (Brad May) writes:
>>> > >>Is is just me, or is anybody else very dissapointed in Episode 1
(10-6)?

For the record, 10-6 was episode 2 of this season, formally
numbered 2002 -- season 2, episode 2.  Numbering for the show
as a whole is this:

Original pilot:Unnumbered
rest of 1st season:1001 through 1007
2nd season:2001 through 2013 [...?]

2001 was the 2-hour opener that aired on Sept. 30.
2002 (episode 2) was the last one shown
2003 (episode 3) is next
2013 is the last episode that ABC has committed to at this time.

A full season would run 22 episodes.  At this point they're
shooting 2009 or 2010, and ABC needs to place script orders
within about 2 weeks if they're going to extend past 13 episodes.
Unless they do that, the company will shut down, and ABC
would then have to pay startup costs to resume production.


BTW, Scott Frost says episode 3 has some really choice humor.
We'll just have to stay tuned to see what it is.

He also wasn't sure exactly what Little Lynch said in French,
but thought it was the variant that translates to "I have a
solitary soul", or something to that effect.


------------------
Paul Raveling
Raveling@Unify.com

In article <1158600092@cdp> ddulmage@cdp.UUCP writes:
   Hi, after last night show, our local Mpls. PBS station ran a live
   special on T.P. They had Mark Frost live by sat. from L.A.
   Onew of the interviewers asked about Piper Laurie (as she has been
   doing some work in this area) and Frost replied that Catherine will
   def. be back in the future. [...]

...of course, this doesn't mean she's not dead....

:-)

In article <1157@bbxsda.UUCP> scott@bbxsda.UUCP (Scott Amspoker) writes:
D
> >
> >Perhaps Laura's drug use was so severe that she couldn't function in 
> >her capacity as "hospitality girl".
> >

Well, maybe, but if her drug use was so out of control how was she 
managing to deceive everyone she dealt with on a daily basis and 
function as a high school student, a daughter, a volunteer?

Everyone except her closest friends seem to be oblivious to the fact 
that Laura abused drugs:  Dr. Hayward, Laura's parents, Norma as Laura's 
Meals on Wheels supervisor (I think). 


--Barbara

--
Barbara HlavinMoab is my wash-pot; over Edom
twain@blake.acs.washington.eduwill I cast out my shoe; Philistia,
U Washington JC-21/Seattle 98105be thou glad of me.

In article <Ab4FSwW00Vsn85zVB3@andrew.cmu.edu> bobg+@andrew.cmu.edu (Robert Steven Glickstein) writes:
> >Could someone explain to me what's going on with the Mill ledgers?
> >Ben says that the real one "masterminded by Catherine" shows the Mill
> >sliding into bankruptcy.  The fake one, according to Ben, shows the
> >Mill turning a healthy profit.

My understanding is that Catherine has been embezzling money from the mill 
for some time now; that's the "masterminded by Catherine" part.  In the 
meantime, she has a fake set of books that show the mill making a profit 
to keep Josie from getting suspicious.  After they burn the mill down, 
they produce the real set of books showing the mill going bankrupt to make 
it look like the Josie burned the mill down to get the insurance money.  

Maybe they would even make sure Josie had the fake books in her possesion 
to give to the insurance company.  They could then produce the real books 
(and of course point out where the fake books were faked, since they know 
where to look 8^) ), to insure Josie is sent to jail for fraud.

I have made 4 sound files for the SparcStation available on
dept.cs.yale.edu for anonymous ftp (in ~ftp/pub/SparcSounds/Twin_Peaks:

choc.au         out.au          pies.au         smilebag.au

Thanks to Steven Slade for capturing choc.au and pies.au on the Mac.  They and
out.au and smilebag.au (posted by Doug Dulmage in 1158600079@cdp)
were converted from MAC sounds.

I made them avail via ftp rather than contribute to usenet traffic.  If you
have mac sounds you can convert them to sun sparc audio files with
the sound2sun program (in dept.cs.yale.edu:~ftp/pub/SparcSounds/sound.shar).

Is there an ftp site with the other mac sound bites that were posted?

.....now I only need an Y/C NTSC color frame grabber to make some GIF files........


Dear Diary, broccoli for dinner again.  I hate broccoli.  Does this mean
I'll never grow up?  - George

--
H. Morrow Long
Manager of Development
Yale Univ. Comp Sci Dept. Computing Facility

Mail Stop 2158,UUCP: yale!Long-Morrow
Yale Station,ARPA: Long-Morrow@CS.Yale.EDU
New Haven, CT  06520BITNET: Long-Morrow@YaleCS.BITNET
(203)-432-1254FAX:(203)-432-0593

In article <1990Oct8.210108.8489@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> ceblair@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Charles Blair) writes:
> >   Why is Ben's ownership of One-Eyed Jack's supposed to be such a big
> >secret.  Einar Thorson knows, and he doesn't seem the embodiment of discretion.

What makes you think Einar knows?  Einar may be under the impression that
OEJ's is Ben's favorite play spot, and that Ben _knows_ the owner.

> >Charles Blair


-- Rob Jellinghaus | "Next time you see a lie being spread or Autodesk, Inc. | a bad decision being made out of sheer robertj@Autodesk.COM | ignorance, pause, and think of hypertext." {decwrl,uunet}!autodesk!robertj | -- K. Eric Drexler, _Engines of Creation_

OK, I thought surely someone would point this out before me, but it
hasn't happened.

Doesn't the whole bit of getting messages in dreams from outer space
aliens kind of reek of ALL of Philip K. Dick's later works?  I mean,
that seemed to be his whole theme near the end.

Does anyone else feel this way?

(Has anyone else read Philip K. Dick?)

-James

Some people were earlier speculating on the location of Seattle.  Well, if
we assume that Lynch and Frost are keeping cities that coexist in both the
Twin Peaks world and our world in the same location, then Seattle is
almost equidistant between the Northern and Southern borders and about a
quarter of the way in from the Western border.  I'd call it "west central",
myself.

Approximate ASCI map of Washington State below.

          North                      British Columbia (Canada)
            |\
            |       -----------------------------------------------------.-----
            |       \                                              Twin *|
                     |                                             Peaks |  I
                      \                                                  |  d
     _                |                                                  |  a
     |\__             |                                                  |  h
     /   --___        |                                                  |  o
    |         ---_    |            WASHINGTON                            |
     \            \   /                                                  |
      |           |  |                                         Spokane * |
      |           |  |* Seattle                                          |
      |           |  |                                                   |
      \           |  /                                                   |
       |          \_/* Tacoma                                            |
       |                                                                 |
       \                                                                 |
        |                                                                |
        |                                 * Yakima                       |
        |                                                                |
        |                                                                |
        |                                          * Tri-cities          |
        |_-_                                                             \ 
            |                                ________---------------------`
             \           ____ ----____-------
              `----___--- 
                                    Oregon


-Pete Zakel
 (phz@cadence.com or ..!{hpda,versatc,apollo,ucbcad,uunet}!cadence!phz)

"I don't introduce my log."

Well I freeze framed Ronette's vision again this morning, repeatedly.  A
few observations and questions:

 * The >only< place where it looks like Killer Bob (KB) might be wearing
cuffs is in the very first establishing shot of KB kneeling by LP in the
train car.  There could be something thin linking his wrists as he holds
them in his lap and looks up at the camera [at Ronette?].  The rest of
the time it really doesn't look like he's in cuffs or anything.  But
neither is there a knife -- just his fists.

 * Nevertheless it does NOT look like KB is trying to kill Laura.  I get
the impression he's trying to save her.  Either with crude CPR, or with
exorcism!  Laura looks positively demonic -- possessed.  When Bob
realizes she's gone, his look seems to be one of powerful sorrow and the
roar is one of rage.  There's no glee.

 * We see Laura on the floor; and separately, we see Bob slamming
something.  We never actually see Bob slamming Laura.  Is he doing
something else?

 * Bob running "at ya" could be in pursuit of the killer, or something
else.  It certainly looks scary but we don't know what it means.

 * What IS that blinking light in the railroad car supposed to be?  It's
certainly atmospheric but where does it come from.  Nothing in the
exterior shot suggests a source.

 * I must agree that that corset shows a little more than we're
accustomed to in network prime time.  One assumes the director felt
nobody would be looking THAT closely, at least not in Standards &
Practices.  The poster who thought he saw, um, Trafalgar Square, either
had a very vivid imagination or is 100% right and ABC gets some kind of
award -- I can't decide which.  :-)

 * Freeze frame junkies alert: After the slow pan down Laura's body,
when we come up to Bob crouching by her side, his hand is ON something.
WHAT is it on?  I can't make it out.

-- To exit -- [__] Tom Neff press <Enter>. [__] tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM

In article <956@sppy00.UUCP> www@sppy00.UUCP (Victor Shakapopolis) writes:
> >In article <8603@milton.u.washington.edu> howells@earth.arc.nasa.gov writes:
> >
> >}Oh come on! Absolutely ridiculous!
> >
> >What's ridiculous about it?  
> >
> >That "Boyle smokes like a chimney and apparently would go bananas during
> >shoots when she wasn't able to have a drag while doing a scene"?
> >
> >Well I can buy this.  Being an ex-heavy-smoker I can see how Boyle would
> >be bothered by not being allowed to smoke during a scene.  I'm certain
> >that acting is stressful, particularly TV acting with all of its' time
> >and budget constraints (few retakes).  Boyle probably was going nuts.

Oh, come on.

What is the longest single shot Donna [or any other character] appears in
in any given episode?

Let's guess way high and say 3 minutes.

Now, a large percentage of those 3-minute shots will be accompanied by at least
15, if not 30-45 minutes of fussing around with lights, cameras, and the like.

Let's assume that the TP crew really has their stuff together, and that it 
only takes them 15 minutes to set up between shots.

Boyle is then prohibited from smoking for a three-minute period every fifteen
minutes.  In reality, it would be more like three minutes every half-hour.

If Boyle is in fact _such_ a heavy smoker that she can't abide this, how did
she get through college?  Has she ever done stage acting?  If so, she must
insist that every role she plays on the stage be rewritten to allow smoking.

The idea that Boyle's smoking _required_ this alteration in Donna's character
is ridiculous.

> >Or "Donna's cigarette smoking was done to accomodate her [Boyle], on top
> >of showing something weird happening with Donna"?
> >
> >What's the problem with accomadating the actress since it fits so well
> >with Donna's weirdness?  Even if the writers hadn't originally intended
> >that smoking being evidence of Donna's personality change it works so why
> >not accomidate Boyle?

Assuming that the writers didn't make the change of their own free will, this 
would seem reasonable. 

However, I find the theory that the TP producers were forced to make changes
in the character of Donna to "accommodate" Boyle's sad addiction to nicotine
preposterous.  Boyle doesn't have that kind of power.  Maybe Jack Nicholson
could get a shooting schedule disrupted because he didn't want to miss a
Laker game, or a script rewritten because he couldn't go without an hourly
haircut, but not Boyle.  If she really has _that_ bad a nicotine addiction,
I really believe we would have seen a new actress portraying Donna this season.


chaz.


-- -- "I Am The Reincarnation of Abraham Lincoln", Insists Prince. -spew clarson@ux.acs.umn.edu AOL:Crowbone

patl@athena.mit.edu (Patrick J. LoPresti) writes:
> >Entering the realm of sci-fi is fine, as long as it's GOOD sci-fi.  The
> >"message from outer space" scene, with Cooper's awe-struck "Oh, my God"
> >could have come from any bad B movie.

Huh?  Exactly why do you assume the message comes from outer space?

Do you assume that because the Margaret can hear her log that dead wood has
a soul?  The message came form a computer that was connected to a radio
receiver that happened to be pointed up.  The message could have originated
from 2 feet above the receiver, from within the receiver, or even from
within the computer.

I don't think TP is sci-fi at all, TP is fantasy.  And it *IS* good fantasy.
Actually, by television standards it is *GREAT* fantasy.

It is at the same time a GREAT spoof on the soap-opera genre.  It is also,
in my humble opinion, Art.  As opposed to most TV fare, which is Schlock.

-Pete Zakel
 (phz@cadence.com or ..!{hpda,versatc,apollo,ucbcad,uunet}!cadence!phz)

"Do you understand the message?"
"Yes, as a matter of fact, I do."