Fire Walk with Me — August 28, 1992–December 31, 1992

Add on to the symbolism list as you see fit....

COLOR
White:  White Angel, White Mask, White Horse, White Lodge, White Yak, Cocaine,
White Swans, Blond Laura

Blacks:  Black Lips, Black Dog, Black Lodge, Black Stitches, Black Water, 
Black King, Black Spiders, Black Grim Reaper (over white background)
, The Night, SUNglasses.

Reds:  Red Drapes, Red School Chair, Red Corvette

Greens:  Green Globe, Green Formica Table, Green Owl Cave Ring

Blue:  Blue Rose, Blue Lights, Project Blue Book

Pink:  Pink Rose, Pink Flower

Brown: Monkey, Owl, Tree

Orange: Fire, 3- Triangle Symbols

Yellow: Corn

Purple: None

Grey: None

MOON: Various Phases shown.  Symbols on box.
FIRE: Everyone has a fireplace.  Reflected in sunglasses.  Fire Walk With
Me.
ELECTRICITY:  Television, Flickering Lights, Telephone Pole, Neon Signs,
Telephone Wires, Electric Fans (stolen from Blade Runner), Static, Lightning
WATER:  The Juice Droplets, Lakes, Shaking Hands
SUN: NONE.

Numerology:  Coopers Room Number at the Great Northern. (I think this was
             303, but I don't remember.)
             The Telephone Pole #
             2 + 4 + 8 + 1 + 0 = 15   1 + 5 = 6
             2 * 2 = 4 * 2 = 8 * 2 = 16 - 10 = 6
             BIG 6
             The OAM Room Number
             5 drummers
             3 cops
             7 in the bar outside of town.
             3/3 = 6 on the domino
             Theresa Banks Room Number (1+2+3 = 6)

CIRCLES:     Circle of White candles, Circle of Trees (Glastonberry Grove),
5 Rings (Owl Cave, Golden Circle, Twisted, Audrey's, Diamond), Roulette
Wheel, Eyes

BROKEN HEART: (only 1)

SYMBOLS FROM SPACE: 3 TRIANGLES TOUCHING, 2 MOUNTAINS TOUCHING

STATUES: In the black lodge, with & without arms.

SHADOWS: Shadow against the drapes in episode 3

ANIMALS:  Monkey, Owl, Swan, Dog, Horse, Raven, Llama, Waldo

CALENDARS: Chinese (Year of the Horse, Dog, Monkey)
           Assyrians (Phases of the Moon)
           Clocks everywhere.

TWINS: Maddy & Laura, Bob & Leland, Jade & Emerald

RELIGION & THE OCCULT:  Conjuction, Magic Circles, Souls, Totem Poles,
Telepathic Dreams, Premonitions, Black/White Lodge, Sorcerers, Shamen,
Black Magic, Dopplegangers (also the name of a very good album by
Curve)., Numerology

Boneless - a light beige color.
Fire = pain & suffering.
Moon (is also called) - The Queen of Heaven or The Queen of Night.
The Forest God = The Corn Spirit (in Sylvian Mythology)
Hell in the bible is referred to as "The Fire that shall never be quenched."

"Fire Walk with me" is probably just a sort of "call to the power of evil"
STARS-SPACE-GRIM REAPER-WHITE BACKGROUND-ORANGE SYMBOLS-OWL-FIRE

I think the show is just a symbolic fest for religion with no real driving
end point now.


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Windom Earl pinned the queen of hearts on Audrey at one-eyed Jacks.  Remember,  he is the one always wearing the disguises.  He is also the one that mentions
the queen of hearts later in reference to the Miss Twin Peaks Pageant.

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goldberg@iastate.edu (Adam Goldberg) writes:
> > I think Catherine put the fish in the percolator as a prank for Pete/Josie.
Is this based on something that happened in TP:FWWM the movie?
Or the original script?
   
> > I thought The white horse meant someone drugged, not death.  I since have
> > been set straight, referring to a Lynch interview, that it is a pooka,
> > signifying death.
Then how come Mrs. Palmer saw the horse the night BEFORE Laura was killed.
Remember the next morning, Laura tells Leland to "stay away from me".
   
   
> > What happens if BOB does manage to spell out his entire name under
> > fingernails?  (He is spelling ROBERT, his proper name... per the
> > Euro-flick).  Does the placing of the "T" under Theresa Banks' fingernail
> > signify the END of a cycle and the "R" under Laura's fingernail signify a
> > new cycle beginning?
The order was T under Teresa's
              R under Laura's
              B under Ronette's (second episode of the second season?)
              O under Maddy's (seventh or eighth episode?)
I'm pretty sure that the B came before the O, so there doesn't seem
to be a pattern in the ordering of the letters.  If it was T-R-O-B,
then you could say R-O-B-E-R-(T-R-O-B)-E-R-T-....
can use the ordering of the letters t
   
> >  
> > If we take what Mike tells Cooper literally, Bob was the first person
> > posessed.  He was a veterinarian and had some sort of run in with the OWL,
> > Mike's familiar.  Now Bob the vet and BOB are one and the same.  If this is
> > the case, it is because the vet (Bob) had no ring to protect him from BOB.
Not sure I agree about BOB being Bob Lydecker, the vet.
I thought Cooper and Truman showed the police sketch of BOB to the 
vet's assistant, who said it was NOT Dr. Lydecker.

> > Time runs backwards in the lodge (futures past).  Cooper's gunshot wound
> > reappears and Annie ends up in bed with Laura "before" she enters the
> > lodge. Cooper helps Laura in the lodge after she dies.
I like this theory.  It may also explain why Agent Chester Desmond was
NOT in the lodge after disappearing.  Instead he would have shown up
BEFORE disappearing.  Maybe in the next prequel, he could appear in 
Philip Jeffries' dreams?  
   
> > accurate, he's lived them before. If the time loop theory is correct, that
> > could not have been the good Annie that came back out with Cooper,
I'm not convinced that (bad) Annie did survive.  Truman might have lied to
Cooper, considering the state Coop was in.  The reason I thought this
was to add to the irony of Coop/BOB saying "How's Annie?" over and over
at the end of the series.  I do think that (good) Annie is still alive
and well in the lodge.  BTW, I think that the white lodge and the black
lodge are one and the same, with the lodge's tiled floors representing
light and dark, good and evil, etc.

> > reinforced by the fact that Laura told Cooper she would see him again in 25
> > years, indicating the length of the time loop.
So if Coop aged 25 years during his backwards stay at the lodge, why
not Laura?  The Laura that whispered the name of her killer in Coop's ear.
   
> > Remember that the old lady said to Donna, "I didn't order creamed corn,
> > take it away".  A reference to the fact that she did not partake in the
Not the exact quote, maybe more like "I ordered no creamed corn.  Do you see
creamed corn?", but her eyes and facial expression did sort of imply
that she didn't like the substance.
   
> > Jefferies (Bowie) was definitely in "Time phase" (something to do with the
> > time loop).  He witnessed a meeting of the "aliens" but escaped before he
> > could be imprisoned in wood.  This seems to relate to the "thread" that is
> > ((Wood is the aliens method of containment/imprisonment.))
Maybe you should explain this a bit more.  My guess would be that Jurgen
Prochnow played the log lady's husband, and he is a witness who did stay
too long.  Maybe if we visited this room now, then Josie would be there too?
  
> > Dead Dog Farm had a formica table, where cocaine was cut.  The meeting
> > included Hank, Jean Renault, The Canadian Mounty, and Norma's Mom's new 
> > husband (I forget his name).  The "aliens" had a formica table where they
Ernie "Perfesser" Niles          
   
> > their obedience, but this could be true as well. * THE kink in this theory
> > and most others (including the time loop theory) is WHY was Mike there when
> > Bob gave the garbonzia to LMFAP? Was he watching LMFAP partake and wishing
> > he could help?  Or was he waiting for his portion?  (Even at the start of
> > the time loop theory, Mike already had only one arm)
I think Lynch left showed Mike there as a new twist, so it's not a kink.
Why would he do this?  To make things more interesting, and give TP fans
something to think about.  He knows they'll eventually solve the problem
for him anyway.

I have a friend who never orders veal in a restaurant, but will eat it
if served it.  Maybe Mike is like this when it comes to garmonbozia?
 
Thanks for your theories.  Very interesting.

Mike
melunney@jeeves.uwaterloo.ca 

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In article <15441@umd5.umd.edu> jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog
here...) writes:
(big 'ol snip)
> >The end result -- a slimmer, more focused film that could almost stand on
> >its own.  Anyone else want to come forward with their "improvements" to
> >FWWM?
> >

Speaking as a marketing slimeball... ;)
The thing that bugged me somewhat is that FWWM would not make _any_
sense to anyone who is not realtively well-versed in the Peaks world
by way of the series.  Well, it really didn't bug me, but it did greatly
cut down on the potential audience.  If i had sat down in FWWM not
knowing the series at all, i would have just held my head trying
vainly to follow what the fuck was going on.  As it stands, FWWM is an
excellent _companion_ piece, but not a complete movie on its own.  (and
again, this may be due to the fact that it was hacked.)

Kermit's suggestion about concentrating on the death of Laura Palmer makes
a lot of sense to me.  Take out everything with Stanley and Desmond, 
because it just isn't essential.  Take out Jeffries, and even take out 
garmonbozia.  Yes, this means no Cooper as well.  This would make it a 
completely different movie.  (Maybe not a better one).

The thing is, that with all of the bits with Jeffries and Cooper and
the room above the convenience store are great.  They add a new dimension
to the movie and the story (and get all of us to go back and watch the
tapes over again to try and fit them in place.)  

If Lynch was making a commercial movie with FWWM, he failed miserably.
Thank BoB that he wasn't.  As it stands (and the 3:40 version would
only be more so, from what i hear) FWWM is an awesome, emotional
film experience.  I saw it twice.  I can't remember the last time that
i paid to see a movie twice in the theatre (well...i can, it was T2).
Lynch is a by god director, one who knows how to manipulate images
better than anyone i've seen in a long while.

Okay, i'm off the subject here.  Sorry.  My only real complaint with
FWWM is that there wasn't enough of it, that it did seem choppy.  It
is a prequel that demands you have seen the material following it.  I
find that refreshing.

Enough babble for now. 
-------------------
Matt Maxwell
mmaxwell@ucsd.edu

"He took personality tests
 and stapled them to his lower lip" -- Stan Ridgway

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Ace of Death at Mos Eisley Spaceport BBS writes:

> >I manage a movie theatre that is playing this film so please don't tell
> >me that I must be mistaken.

In your theater, is the film as scratched up and the sound as bad as it
was in the theater I saw TP in (Boulder, CO)?  And was there anything in
the release to indicate why so many listings read "Twin Peaks: Firewalk
with me"?

By the way, I suppose we discussed this ad infinitum last year, but I
don't remember it, and having just re-watched season one, I just made
a cosmic connection:

The spirits that are in the wood communicate via wind.  Here are some
supporting arguments:
 
  1. In the movie, the camera pans down the telephone/power pole with
     the 6 on it as we hear the Indian whooping noise, reinforcing the
     concept that's pretty much been pounded into us that spirits are
     in the wood. (Remember Hawk's comment to the Log Lady that "there
     are a lot of spirits in the wood, aren't there?" from season one).

  2. In season one, Lucy explains that a call sounds like long distance
     because it has that whooshing sound, like wind blowing through the
     trees.

  3. We are given fairly frequent interludes of blowing trees.  That
     imagery is not insignificant.

The new reference to electricity has me a little perplexed, but it could
be that the spirits 'electricity' is the wind.

I am strongly reminded of the Indian legends of the four forces of nature:
Earth, Wind, Fire and Water.  We have seen constant references in the
series to wind, fire and water, but I can't really think of any related
to Earth. (Maybe "Save the Pine Weasel").  Any thoughts?

Brian WOOD    *House address 710 -- same as Blue Lady's apt in Blue Velvet
               [and darn close to Laura's - 708].
              *Live next to a grove of TREES
              *My wife's aunt's name is Annie; my sister's name is Anne
              *My wife grew up next to a forest; next street - Glastonbury
              *My father's name - Palmer Robert Wood!


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In article <3307@carroll1.cc.edu>, lzett@carroll1.cc.edu (Leslie D 
Zettergren) writes:
> > In TP Jerrard is one of the names of the OAM.
> > In Fugitive Jerrard is the police Lt. in search
> > of Kimball.  Did the Jerrards have the same first
> > names too?

Yes; Phillip.

> > In the Fugitive Jerrard chased Kimball who chased
> > the OAM.  I'm not sure whether the Fugitive's OAM
> > was ever given a name.

He was, but I can't recall it.

Terry Carroll - tjc50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com - 408/992-2152
The opinions presented above are not necessarily those of a sound mind.

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I'm sure we've all noticed the Indian themes in TP:

*Indian legends mentioned by Hawk
*Indian head gas pumps
*The Indian whooping noise that IS the sound the arm (LMFAP) makes
*Johnny Horne and his Indian headdress
*More, anybody?

I would be willing to bet that Johnny Horne knew more than we ever
suspected about the evil in TP.  That's a thread they never really
developed.  And how did he get the way he was (autistic? retarded?) -
was it also a case of incest the last time the Gateway to the White/Black
lodge was open - twentysomething years ago?  Johhny was 27 during the
series, according to Audrey.

Brian Wood
(If you don't know my .sig by now, may Bob infect your sister)


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CIRCLES: Major Briggs, first name is Garland. The one TP character who
seems to have the greatest connection to the White Lodge; one of the
most mystical of the TP folks; connection with Project Blue Book.

Coffee Mugs: Various times we see folks drinking coffee the camera
pans on the round rim of the coffee mug, which is normally filled with coffee,
again the coffee is seen in a circluar shape. Coop was offered coffee in
the last TP episode; in the last episode (2022) we see a shot of a
coffee, and then the image of a "content" Laura is seen reflecting in it.


Sally--
-- That the play is the tragedy, "Man," \\\\\ Sally A. Wilson And its hero, the Conqueror Worm. \\\\\ sally@mica.berkeley.edu ("The Conqueror Worm" \\\\\ from Egar Allan Poe's _Ligeia_) \\\\\ Spud Peel

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I am sure that the answer to this question exists on some FAQ list or
somewhere, but nonetheless I am not a frequenter of this news group but
have a TP question.

What all happens in episode 12?  I know that Blackie dies and Audrey gets
rescued from One Eyed Jacks, but I want to know Details.
What happened to everyone else in the mean time?  what else transpired?
This is the only episode I cannot get ahold of.  Would someone please 
Email me a message telling what happened?  cabal@iastate.edu


I LOVE EVERYONE......  YOU'RE NEXT!

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If we agree that Laura Palmer put on the ring that the OAM threw into
the train car, and that she is NOT wearing it when her body is found
(which she isn't) Then where is it? When she is shown in the lodge at
the end with Cooper, is she wearing it? Did anyone notice?
Or in the series in Cooper's first dream when he meets "Doesn't she
look just like Laura Pamer?" Is she wearing it then???
Or does the ring just disappear after it has done whatever it is
supposed to do?
Do we ever see it in the series at all? I am currently re-watching the
series and haven't seen it or heard a ref. to it yet...
Any theories?

-Susan

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In article <15437@umd5.umd.edu> jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog
here...) writes:
> >In article <1992Sep14.033515.6596@cco.caltech.edu> UnoJ writes:
>> >>LeBob closes the door, the OAM looks at Ronette and simply
>> >>(coward!) walks away.
> >
> >It interests me that people are building whole conspiracy theories about
> >MIKE being evil on the fact that we didn't see him check to see if
> >Ronnette was OK.  How do we know that he didn't, offscreen?  After all, 
> >a large chunk of things we saw in the series never happened on-screen
> >in the movie either.
> >
Ah my dear Kermit...I don't think anyone has really
put on a Mike-as-evil theory yet. My point is twofold:
1- LeBob was still _inside_ the train car and very obviously
bent on killing Ronette. The whole point of Mike's being
there is his delivery of the ring it seems. However you
see it, his actions were quite self-serving.
2- In the series he wasted everyone's time. Think about
it: from the movie we know that he knew about LeBob, yet
he did not spend any miniscule ounce of energy pointing
the law enforcers in the right directions.
Conclusions: Mike is not _evil_ since nothing seems to
be so clear cut in the TP world. But his is nonetheless
a character that has a variey of shady purposes of his own.


    UnoJ



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Somebody way back writes
> >    >> ...C4 will rerun the Prisoner on wednesday evenings at 11.15pm
> >    >> beginning sept. 23rd.
> >    >> Apparently this is almost exactly 25 years after the first UK screening.

Maybe we can get the US network (CBS? NBC?) to rerun it this summer to
commemorate the States 25th anniversary.

Yeah, I wish I could make it to 1993 PortmeriCon.
Should be quite a party.

------
Eeyore
"Hey baby, wanna see my Codex Seraphinianus?"

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In article <15441@umd5.umd.edu> jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog
here...) writes:
> >Second, the entire half-hour before Laura appears would be cut TO THE BONE.
> >The number of scenes could be counted on one hand.  The TV smashed -- Teresa
> >floating down the river -- Desmond and Stanley do the autopsy and find the
> >T -- Coop says he feels the killer will strike again -- BANG into the Twin
> >Peaks title sequence.  Keep the movie focused on what it's about: Laura
> >Palmer.  None of this confusion about Cliff Howard.  And no Philip 
> >Jeffries scene.  Maybe splice a couple of shots from the Gathering of Owls
> >in the convenience store into Laura's dream, to explain "garmonbozia", but
> >that's it.  All that stuff involving the FBI investigation really belonged
> >in a completely separate movie.  In fact, I'd love to see it explored to
> >that depth.  Just not here.

Now now.. I heartily disagree here. The first half (? I thought it was
a little longer than that) was brilliant. The Teresa Banks thread may
(put a thick underline on that "may") have shed little light on the
plot as whole, but it had nice little tidbits of humor and great
Lynchian filmmaking. And besides, I think it did advance the plot.
The ring for instance: Teresa had it; it disappears for a while
and then misteriously reappears under the Chalfont's trailer. 
The convenience room scene. Brr.... the whole thing was a cornucopia
of wonders for TP theorists and lovers alike.

> >
> >As for additions, I'd add a Meals On Wheels run, simply to introduce Harold
> >Smith and the Tremonds.  Otherwise they seem to just come out of nowhere.
> >At the end, I'd put in at least one scene to make it clear that Laura knows
> >she is going to die -- maybe she writes that last diary entry and mails it
> >to Harold.  Make the thematic shape of the movie clearer that way.

I disagree again. This is a part of the movie I would have shortened.
Lynch obviously knew that we were out there ready to scream foul
at every mistake he would have made (and who cares it they are little
and inconsequential anyway), therefore there were token inclusions
from Harold Smith to Peggy Lipton's mini appearance. I would have 
shortened some of Laura's scenes too. Especially the one in the
"pink room." Not because I'm a staunch puritan, mind you, but because
I got the point in five seconds. Yet it did last (including the scene
at the Roadhouse) in excess of ten minutes. 

> >
> >The end result -- a slimmer, more focused film that could almost stand on
> >its own.  Anyone else want to come forward with their "improvements" to
> >FWWM?
> >
You seem to have preferred the "let's really tie all those little
threads together" approach. The way it was was just fine for me
thank you. Sure, I would have made minor changes here and there,
but I was satisfied. It opened up another set of totally unexpected
questions and discussion possibilities. Just what the show at
its best was all about.

Concluding remarks: I have noticed that most people who griped
most vociferously about the movie had a whole set of expectations
before they entered the theater. I'm not trying to say that it's
a bad thing, I just trying to say that rarely have I liked a 
movie where I expected it to be exactly the way I envisioned it.
When I walked in I just had this in mind: "Mr. Lynch, wash the
TP world and mystery over me again...make me gasp in disbelief"
And for me, that happened many a time throughout both my viewings.


    UnoJ





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In article <38033@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> enomura@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Eddie the 'ead)
writes:
> >Cherubini's Requiem in C Minor plays during Laura's death and over the end
> >credits.  I am having a hard time finding this on CD.
> >

If you are trying to find the exact same version
that was used for the movie, I think you are going to
have a hard time. I believe it was a recording by Riccardo
Muti and the London Symphony Orchestra on EMI. I did not
even see it in the few catalogs I perused. There are
a few versions out for the C Minor Requiem by other
performers though. What is unusual is that the entire
Requiem is sung by a mixed chorus. Most feature your
usual soloists. There is also the Requiem in D by Cherubini
sung by a male chorus alone which is supposedly even
more gloomy sounding than the C minor one. Haven't heard it
though.


> >ed
> >
> >-- 
> >   /\__Edwin Nomura -- enomura@ucsd.edu__________.:___________.____________/\
> >  / \\        .:.         .                      : .         :            / \\
> > /  \\\   :  .::     :     :  Fire walk with me  :..        : .     :    / 
\\\
> >/   \\\\..::..:::.:::::.:.:.....:::::...::..:...:::::.:.:::::.:....::.../  
\\\\
> >


    UnoJ




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If someone already have made a post regarding what I'm about to discuss
please disregard this and give me a pointer to where I might read it and 
various comments to that post...

First of all I want to state that I haven't seen FWWM and I haven't
seen the series XXX times so I might be out of my depth but I got to think
about this theory about going backwards in the lodge and rememberd something.

Now to the tie of King Arthur; has anyone given the fact that the
entrance to the lodge was placed at Glastonbury Tower (or what the name now
was) any thought? If we go back to the legend we remember that King Arthurs
most trusted advisor was Merlin who (what a coincidens...) was said to live
backward in time. Maybe this tie to Arthur/Merlin is just a hint given by
Lynch to that affect that time really goes backward in the lodge (Maybe even
Merlin was a spirit of the White Lodge) or does the connection go even deeper? 

Does anyone see any deeper connection between the two stories or am I
just out rambling about things only I see? Glad to read any followups on this
theme. See ya...

-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rickard 'Eneq' Eneqvist. | "Someone will always hate you, so why bother?" 'eneq@Meryl.CSD.UU.SE' | "The silent murmur of the gray stone always seems | to lift my spirits to yet greater heights." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Excerpts from netnews.alt.tv.twin-peaks: 6-Sep-92 Re: questions... by
Gregory Salmieri@whitebase
> > -> Theresa Banks ring. There has been speculation that the ring,
> > -> symbolizing a circle, symbolizing a circular time line, or
> > ->  that whoever wears the ring is the next to die or something
> > -> like that. But what about the symbols ON the ring? Weren't
> > ->  those same symbols the same ones on the wall of the cave
> > -> in Twin Peaks? (At this time I forget what the symbols meant,
> > ->  except that they inferred something about the white lodge,
> > -> or somthing else mystical. Or am I remembering the those
> > -> symbols  wrong? (Also, someone, maybe cooper, drew the same
> > -> symbol on a napkin in the double R diner at one time...)
> >
> > The symobls are that same as those on owl cave. Owl cave was a map to the 
> > lodges, whitch leads me to believe that the ring takes you into the lodges. 
> > Laura escaped from Bob by entering the lodges. I think she entered the white 
> > lodge because of the angle.

That's an interesting solution, and it even makes some sense. My main
question is then: Why does Cooper warn Laura not to put the ring on? It
seems to me that her final act of putting the ring on is what saves
Laura from BOB. Sure she's dead, but it's better to be dead than the
pawn of evil.

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Laura is talking with Harold. Harold doubts whether BOB is real. Laura
replies with: "Fire, walk with *ME*!"

As she says it, the camera gradually gets closer. When she says "ME!",
just for a split second (blink and you'll miss it), there is a close up.
Here face is white, her lips black, and her voice made my skin tingle.
It was damn eery. I seem to remember a similar visual effect from the TV
series finale, but it doesn't quite match with this scene. Wow!

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What's with all the backwards sound effects in this movie?  I thought they were
kinda creepy at parts and you don't really notice them until they get real loud
in certain scenes (like when Desmond and Stanley pull out the letter from
underneath Teresa's fingernail).  Reminds me of an elephant.

ed

-- /\__Edwin Nomura -- enomura@ucsd.edu__________.:___________.____________/\ / \\ .:. . : . : / \\ / \\\ : .:: : : Fire walk with me :.. : . : / \\\ / \\\\..::..:::.:::::.:.:.....:::::...::..:...:::::.:.:::::.:....::.../ \\\\

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In <BuLD22.1rI@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca> melunney@jeeves.uwaterloo.ca (Mike Lunney) writes:

> >goldberg@iastate.edu (Adam Goldberg) writes:
>> >> I think Catherine put the fish in the percolator as a prank for Pete/Josie.
> >Is this based on something that happened in TP:FWWM the movie?
> >Or the original script?
Just guessing here.

>> >> I thought The white horse meant someone drugged, not death.  I since have
>> >> been set straight, referring to a Lynch interview, that it is a pooka,
>> >> signifying death.
> >Then how come Mrs. Palmer saw the horse the night BEFORE Laura was killed.
> >Remember the next morning, Laura tells Leland to "stay away from me".
Personally, I thought it meant drugged, but I am only passing this
information forward.

>> >> What happens if BOB does manage to spell out his entire name under
>> >> fingernails?  (He is spelling ROBERT, his proper name... per the
>> >> Euro-flick).  Does the placing of the "T" under Theresa Banks' fingernail
>> >> signify the END of a cycle and the "R" under Laura's fingernail signify a
>> >> new cycle beginning?
> >The order was T under Teresa's
> >              R under Laura's
> >              B under Ronette's (second episode of the second season?)
> >              O under Maddy's (seventh or eighth episode?)
> >I'm pretty sure that the B came before the O, so there doesn't seem
> >to be a pattern in the ordering of the letters.  If it was T-R-O-B,
> >then you could say R-O-B-E-R-(T-R-O-B)-E-R-T-....
> >can use the ordering of the letters t
Even if the order is wrong, the question remains.  What happens when
BOB uses up all the letters?  Is his cycle of killing complete?

> >   
>> >> posessed.  He was a veterinarian and had some sort of run in with the OWL,
>> >> Mike's familiar.  Now Bob the vet and BOB are one and the same.  If this is
>> >> the case, it is because the vet (Bob) had no ring to protect him from BOB.
> >Not sure I agree about BOB being Bob Lydecker, the vet.
> >I thought Cooper and Truman showed the police sketch of BOB to the 
> >vet's assistant, who said it was NOT Dr. Lydecker.
Agreed, there seems to be a problem with this theory.

>> >> Time runs backwards in the lodge (futures past).  Cooper's gunshot wound
>> >> reappears and Annie ends up in bed with Laura "before" she enters the
>> >> lodge. Cooper helps Laura in the lodge after she dies.
> >I like this theory.  It may also explain why Agent Chester Desmond was
> >NOT in the lodge after disappearing.  Instead he would have shown up
> >BEFORE disappearing.  Maybe in the next prequel, he could appear in 
> >Philip Jeffries' dreams?  
Remember he shows up on the other monitor also.  The one next to where
Jefferies appears.

> >I'm not convinced that (bad) Annie did survive.  Truman might have lied to
> >Cooper, considering the state Coop was in.  The reason I thought this
> >was to add to the irony of Coop/BOB saying "How's Annie?" over and over
> >at the end of the series.  I do think that (good) Annie is still alive
> >and well in the lodge.  BTW, I think that the white lodge and the black
> >lodge are one and the same, with the lodge's tiled floors representing
> >light and dark, good and evil, etc.
I disagree with your Annie theory, agree with your same lodge theory.


>> >> reinforced by the fact that Laura told Cooper she would see him again in 25
>> >> years, indicating the length of the time loop.
> >So if Coop aged 25 years during his backwards stay at the lodge, why
> >not Laura?  The Laura that whispered the name of her killer in Coop's ear.
because Laura isn't coming back out of the lodge and Cooper is?

>> >> Remember that the old lady said to Donna, "I didn't order creamed corn,
>> >> take it away".  A reference to the fact that she did not partake in the
> >Not the exact quote, maybe more like "I ordered no creamed corn.  Do you see
> >creamed corn?", but her eyes and facial expression did sort of imply
> >that she didn't like the substance.
agreed.
> >   
>> >> Jefferies (Bowie) was definitely in "Time phase" (something to do with the
>> >> time loop).  He witnessed a meeting of the "aliens" but escaped before he
>> >> could be imprisoned in wood.  This seems to relate to the "thread" that is
>> >> ((Wood is the aliens method of containment/imprisonment.))
> >Maybe you should explain this a bit more.  My guess would be that Jurgen
> >Prochnow played the log lady's husband, and he is a witness who did stay
> >too long.  Maybe if we visited this room now, then Josie would be there too?
I don't have enough to go on, but I think your on the right track.

> >  
>> >> Dead Dog Farm had a formica table, where cocaine was cut.  The meeting
>> >> included Hank, Jean Renault, The Canadian Mounty, and Norma's Mom's new 
>> >> husband (I forget his name).  The "aliens" had a formica table where they
> >Ernie "Perfesser" Niles          
>> >> their obedience, but this could be true as well. * THE kink in this theory
>> >> and most others (including the time loop theory) is WHY was Mike there when
>> >> Bob gave the garbonzia to LMFAP? Was he watching LMFAP partake and wishing
>> >> he could help?  Or was he waiting for his portion?  (Even at the start of
>> >> the time loop theory, Mike already had only one arm)
> >I think Lynch left showed Mike there as a new twist, so it's not a kink.
> >Why would he do this?  To make things more interesting, and give TP fans
> >something to think about.  He knows they'll eventually solve the problem
> >for him anyway.

> >I have a friend who never orders veal in a restaurant, but will eat it
> >if served it.  Maybe Mike is like this when it comes to garmonbozia?
> > 
> >Thanks for your theories.  Very interesting.
your welcome,t hanks for the reply
> >Mike
> >melunney@jeeves.uwaterloo.ca 
-- Adam Goldberg ! Ask me how IOWA STATE UNIVERSITY is goldberg@iastate.edu ! censoring my usenet access!! ..!uunet!iastate.edu!goldberg ! >>I don't need a BIG BROTHER!!<<

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melunney@jeeves.uwaterloo.ca (Mike Lunney) writes:

> > The order was T under Teresa's
> >               R under Laura's
> >               B under Ronette's (second episode of the second season?)
> >               O under Maddy's (seventh or eighth episode?)

Hmm... Perhaps he's spelling it backwards, and there was an attack we didn't
know about >between< Laura's death and Ronette's letter-placement, using
the letter "E".


--
"Go to an extreme and then retreat to a more useful position"  --  Brian Eno
Joe Zitt        ...cs.utexas.edu!kvue!zitt!joe         (512)450-1916

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UnoJ writes:

> > Conclusions: Mike is not _evil_ since nothing seems to
> > be so clear cut in the TP world. But his is nonetheless
> > a character that has a variey of shady purposes of his own.

Another possibility: MIKE could simply be >incompetent< at what he does.
Considering that he did very little that was ultimately useful, perhaps
he just messed up at his task a lot. After all, we have no reason to 
believe that the Others are necessarily skilled at their tasks; in fact,
most of them seem to have >serious< communications problems.

(Just think how much better off the world would be if we could get the
Black Lodge Hooked-On-Phonics B-].)

--
"Go to an extreme and then retreat to a more useful position"  --  Brian Eno
Joe Zitt        ...cs.utexas.edu!kvue!zitt!joe         (512)450-1916

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Edward John Sabol <es2j+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

> > That's an interesting solution, and it even makes some sense. My main
> > question is then: Why does Cooper warn Laura not to put the ring on? It
> > seems to me that her final act of putting the ring on is what saves
> > Laura from BOB. Sure she's dead, but it's better to be dead than the
> > pawn of evil.

Not to make it seem like I'm on an incompetence kick... but what if Coop,
even in the Lodge, doesn't quite understand what the ring means either?


--
"Go to an extreme and then retreat to a more useful position"  --  Brian Eno
Joe Zitt        ...cs.utexas.edu!kvue!zitt!joe         (512)450-1916

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In alt.tv.twin-peaks, pitchon@paradyne.com (Howard Pitchon) writes:

> > From: Summer Storm 
> > 
> > To the powers that be (and that includes editors): to take a 3:40 
> > movie that was obviously made for the original fans, and cut it to 
> > 2:09 has to be one of the cruelest, stupidest moves of all time!

Right.  Ranks right up there with gas chambers.

> > 
> > The John Anderson review: sounds like the book he should have 
> > brought to the theatre would be Dick and Jane. (A grade school 
> > primer for those not in the US)

Of course of course.  The only possible answer is that he is
an idiot.  A clever fellow could never dislike this wonderful movie.

doug

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In article <faTP02Kk218M01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>, tjc50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com
(Terry Carroll) wrote:
> > 
> > In article <3307@carroll1.cc.edu>, lzett@carroll1.cc.edu (Leslie D 
> > Zettergren) writes:
>> > > In TP Jerrard is one of the names of the OAM.
>> > > In Fugitive Jerrard is the police Lt. in search
>> > > of Kimball.  Did the Jerrards have the same first
>> > > names too?
> > 
> > Yes; Phillip.

Minor detail, in the Fugitive it's Philip with one L according to EPI-LOG.
(And it's Gerard. )

> > 
>> > > In the Fugitive Jerrard chased Kimball who chased
>> > > the OAM.  I'm not sure whether the Fugitive's OAM
>> > > was ever given a name.
> > 
> > He was, but I can't recall it.

Fred Johnson, according to EPI-LOG.

Interestingly enough, their summary of Fugitive years 3-4 was in the same
issue (July 1992) that features TP, that's how I happened to find the info.
Their article has a detailed episode summary which is a useful complement
to the Timeline.

-Rich Haller

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In article <SBILES.92Sep13164027@dante.nmsu.edu>, sbiles@nmsu.edu (Susannah E Biles) writes:
> > 
> > Thanks to all of you who replyed about the ftp. 
> > I have another question in reference to the magazine Film Threat and
> > its Twin Peaks articles. Living in the silly little town that I do,
> > no single book store, video store or magazine place carries the
> > magazine and most haven't heard of it!
> > So, I was wondering if any of you super people who happened to be
> > fortunate enough to get this magazine would be willing to post some of
> > the more interesting articles???
> > I would love to read them!
> > Thanks
> > 
> > Susan
If you want to get a copy of Film Threat you can order it by sending
$5, in check of money order, along with a note saying you want the
Oct issue that feature TP, to:

L.F.P.
P.O. Box 16928
No. Hollywood, CA 91615

Make check out to L.F.P.

Cheers, Lou


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Hello netland,
I just saw FWWM for the second time last night and have a few new
questions. May be I've missed the answers in previous discussions, but who is
Judy. Phillip Jefferies says not to mention Judy when he arrives, and I
understand from a previous post that the second time we see the monkey, it says
Judy. 

Secondly, has anyone, other than the original poster, verified that
"garmonbozia" is "I is Windom Earle" backwards?

Lastly, after my first viewing, I was struck by FWWM's basic structure,
i.e. mostly before the murder and mostly about Laura. I understand that Lynch
would like to do another TP film, if there be enough interest. If TP does
continue in the theaters, I have a few hunches and would like some feed back. It
seems that Lynch has TP set-up pretty well to be come a trilogy. In the series,
we had the basic story-line of Laura's murder, Windom Earle's quest for the Black
lodge and Cooper's long history of visions and experiences with the paranormal
and his capture in the Black Lodge. I believe that this could be carried over to
the theaters in the form of a trilogy. Each volume of which would be very focused
on one these story-lies. The first came in the form of FWWM, a very intense
recount of the events concearning Laura and the Lodge. As a second part, I
believe the story of Windom Earle's involvement with the Lodge would prove to be
very interesting. Unfortunately I would not expect to see any more of Cooper than
was seen in FWWM. As a last and conclusionary part, It would be great to have it
all laid out on the table concearning Cooper and these visions, his ring, etc.
Perhaps it would be then that we would get a tangible answer to Jefferies "Do you
know who this is?" Now I know that Lynch isn't into "happy endings" and wouldn't
expect one such as the good Cooper returning from the Lodge, but I do think a
grim wrapping up as in end of the series could be the cap stone for the TP saga.

Note: no flames please. This last part is only my fanciful conjecture.

Adrian 
-- ----------------------------------+-------------------------------------------- adrian@cs.wm.edu ---->>>>| Support you local programmer, adrian@cebafi.cebaf.gov --->>>| STOP Software Patent Abuses NOW! Member: The League for -->>| membership info at prep.ai.mit.edu:/pub/lpf Programming Freedom ->| print "join.ps" for an application ----------------------------------+--------------------------------------------

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In article <SBILES.92Sep14210142@dante.nmsu.edu> sbiles@nmsu.edu (Susannah E Biles) writes:

   Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
   Path: intime.intime.COM!netcon!ucla-cs!ucivax!news.claremont.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!nmsu.edu!opus!sbiles
   From: sbiles@nmsu.edu (Susannah E Biles)
   Sender: usenet@nmsu.edu
   Organization: NMSU Computer Science
   Distribution: alt.tv.twin-peaks
   Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 04:01:42 GMT
   Lines: 14


   If we agree that Laura Palmer put on the ring that the OAM threw into
   the train car, and that she is NOT wearing it when her body is found
   (which she isn't) Then where is it? When she is shown in the lodge at
   the end with Cooper, is she wearing it? Did anyone notice?
   Or in the series in Cooper's first dream when he meets "Doesn't she
   look just like Laura Pamer?" Is she wearing it then???
   Or does the ring just disappear after it has done whatever it is
   supposed to do?
   Do we ever see it in the series at all? I am currently re-watching the
   series and haven't seen it or heard a ref. to it yet...
   Any theories?

   -Susan

Doesn't Cooper tell her NOT to put the ring on, symbolising her marriage
to the Black Lodge? That ring is indeed a mystery.

-scottm

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In article <1992Sep2.232654.827@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA>, 
bross@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Brian J Ross) writes:
> > Would someone give me the name of that requiem at the end of the film?
> > Is it on the CD soundtrack?  I suspect that it isn't, as the film credits
> > mentioned some requiem recorded by a symphony orchestra, and there is no
> > mention of this on the CD.

At the risk of answering the question for the gadzillionth time (I'm about
400 messages behind in my FWWM reading), the wee slice of heavenly music
at the film's end is from Luigi Cherubini's Requiem Mass.  Sadly, it isn't
included on the soundtrack CD, but recordings of the entire piece should
not be too hard to find.

On the subject of heavenly music, does anyone share my hypothesis that the
shadowy shape which floated behind the red curtains during the 1003 dream
sequence has now been revealed to have been an angel?

I thought not.  Sigh...

Steve Bruun


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Well, FWWM has gone in and out of our local theaters in the space
of about a couple weeks, so I was wondering if anyone had news
on how much money it earned during its (short) run in the U.S.

Hopefully more than 10 million?

Bv

--
 ___            _    _     _  _        _
(  _) ___ ___ _( )__( )_  ( )( ) o  __( ) _  ___  ___  ___
(___)(_) (__=) (_)_ (_)_   (__) (_)(_((_)(_'(__=)(_) _(_)
Brett J. Vickers (bvickers@ics.uci.edu)

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In article <14SEP199212361365@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov> scgeoff@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (GEOFF ELLIOTT) writes:

   This makes as much sense as anything else I've read about Jacques calling 
   himself the "Great Went".

[theory about the tv show Cheers deleted that doesn't convince me, anyway]
   Geoff

 I think that perhaps it is supposed to resonate with the lost/leaving
theme of degradation and progressive evil. All along the image of
Laura is of someone "going away" being sucked farther and farther into
a destructive pit. Perhaps Jacques is saying that he's already long
gone. Perhaps it also means he's been taken over by the black lodge
already, and that's why he's as blank as a fart -- nothing left of the
original human (that had a capacity for good).
    Of course, the nonsensical nature of his expressions is clearly
meant to evoke that peculiar sort of conversation that takes place at
large crowded parties where everyone is _way out_ of a normal mental
state.

    -- David

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Additions to symbol list (20407)

CIRCLES:  Coffee Cup

BLACKS: Coffee itself

TWINS: OAM/Gerrard 


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  I think they should make another 2 hour show to tie together all the
'future' part of TP after the seies on TV.  
  I would end the last show with the whole town meeting at Glastonberry
Grove at night 
dressed in hooded black robes in a circle around the trees.  There
should be some character that hasn't been possessed protesting the meeting 
and trying to stop it.
  All the characters should raise their rings into the air and scream 
"Fire walk with me" during a lunar eclipse that just happens to be occuring.
The red drapes appear.
Then the OAM, the Midget and BOB should walk out  of the waiting room together.
BOB could bring an Owl to the center of the circle.
The OAM could sacrifice the owl.
The Hooded Man in Black could appear in the center of the circle.
The Lake next to glastonberry grove could turn to blood.
The credits could finally end the show.

NOTE:  Everybody assumes that the red room is the black lodge, but in one
episode the midget says that it is the waiting room.  The red room is
probably the waiting room between the black & white lodges.

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In article <1992Sep15.042511.27712@cco.caltech.edu> UnoJ writes:

   Concluding remarks: I have noticed that most people who griped
   most vociferously about the movie had a whole set of expectations
   before they entered the theater.

I think this is right.  I went into the theater not expecting anything
in particular (other than the last 7 days of Laura's life) and maybe
even expecting not to like the film, given the various negative
reviews and word of mouth.  Instead, I found a movie that engrossed me
from start to end and which cast a whole new light on events I thought
I knew.

-30-
Bob

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^Bret writes^

> >Well, FWWM has gone in and out of our local theaters in the space
> >of about a couple weeks, so I was wondering if anyone had news
> >on how much money it earned during its (short) run in the U.S.

> >Hopefully more than 10 million?

      Pipe dreams.  Dude... not even close.
      Opening Weekend: FWWM posted earnings of about 2 million bucks
      at 700 or so theaters, which is decent, if not wonderful.
      Second: New Line had thinned the distrib by about 100 venues
      after the opening weekend was less than they would have
      liked, and FWWM posted a B.O. of just under a million bux.

      Last Week: Nobody reported what FWWM made last week... for
      the figures, we'll have to wait for the VARIETY covering
      last week's B.O. to be released.
        Conjecture: New Line probably thinned the mixture again.
        Gross was between $500,000 and $800,000 - but probably not
        more than that.
        The studio is not arbitrarily stripping FWWM from theaters,
        but looking for a happy medium between venues and earnings:
        those venues posting decent per screen bux for FWWM will
        show it for as long as it remains profitable; obviously,
        LOEWS, Cineplex Odeon and United Artists chains won't be
        keeping FWWM in any kind of chain-wide distribution.

        In urban areas (particularly the major cities), college
        towns, and on the arthouse circuit, FWWM will probably
        enjoy a long life.  

        There is also the possibility of FWWM's continuation in
        theaters semi-permanently in the same way Heavy Metal
        and Rocky Horror are (tho FWWM is infinitely superior
        to that berthing!!).

      Basically, I'd say, it's us fans who are propping FWWM
      up at the box office at this point... so if we want a
      sequel, I'd recommend a couple or three things:

      1. SEE FWWM AGAIN -- and don't sneak in!  
      2. Write New Line praising them for supporting expressionist
         moviemaking like TWIN PEAKS - and encourage them to lend
         their distribution support to more TWIN PEAKS movies.
      3. Write the French Production Company that financially
         backed FWWM (and with whom Lynch has a 6-picture deal...
         any number of those could be Peaks pictures, you know...)
         praising THEIR support of fine cinema, the auteur David
         Lynch, and Twin Peaks...  but do it in French!
      4. Most importantly, write Lynch himself!  (in care of
         Lynch/Frost productions... somebody please post the
         address?)  Make the letters as surreal and disjointed
         as possible and, in the opening paragraph of all of
         them, use this sentence: "Emil is my lover; my lover,
         Emil."  

                 Shortly  thereafter, the health of  Annie
                 Blackburn still in question, the behavior
                 of Special Agent  Dale Cooper was noticed
                 __________________________to have changed.
                                              Scott Gorcey.            

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In article <lba0vmINNbd2@news.bbn.com> ingria@BBN.COM writes:
> > 
> > So that's why there are simians at the end of ``Fall Out'' and ``Twin
> > Peaks: Fire Walk with Me''...
> > 
> >    Or maybe it's just the same group of aliens running them both.  :-)
> > 
> > Observing the Prime Directive, obviously, since they never actively
                ^^^^^^
Did you mean PrimATE?

...Sorry! :-)

-Bob T.

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>> >>
> >
> >George, I'm impressed. There is something that doesn't quite jive
> >with me though. Remember the detail that time may flow backwards in 
> >the Lodge, but it flows forward in our world. Even the souls/spirits
> >who inhabit the lodge are at time's mercy depending on where they are.
> >This was proven by me by the grandson who speaks in plain English
> >when he warns Laura about the "man behind the mask". We had no
> >previous knowledge of their presence in the lodge, otherwise this
> >point would have been sealed by the old woman's discourse with
> >Donna in the Tremond house. Therefore, how do you reconcile the fact
> >that WE soul may have been split in the last episode but in our
> >time he had gone psycho a long time ago? As you pointed out it is
> >referred to in Coop's tapes. On one plane the OAM and the LMFAP
> >were "split" from WE, but WE should have been normal until then.

I always had the suspision that Bob knew a lot more about what happened
in Pittsburgh with Wyndem Earle and Coop then we know it. Remember in the
series, the confession episode where Leland tells all, Bob is speaking and
to Coop he says something about "Just like that time in Pittsburgh!" and  Coop
has a startled look on his face and takes a couple of steps backwards. The
thought crossed my mind that back then, Bob or Mike could have been
possesing Wyndem and Caroline was one of his victims. The events which happened
at the end of the second season - Bob taking WE's soul could represent either
Bob's past possesion of Wyndem or by Bob taking his soul was why he went
nuts and ended up in the looney bin. When Earle is in the black lodge, he
has control over how he presents himself.. he appears as evil Laura, Caroline,
wounded Annie, evil Annie before he finals reveals to Coop his image. If you
doubt me, when the evil Laura screams.. "Meanwhile..." you see a quick,
blury image of Wyndem Earle appear over her face.. if you rewind your tape
and pause it when this happens it becomes quite clear and you clearly see
Wyndem Earle's face.. how did he get the power to alter his image?

-=*George*=-


> > 



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> >
> >Don't Do Anything I Wouldn't Do plays when Stanley and Desmond are at Hap's.

This could be another example of Dear Meadow being an evil twin of Twin
Peaks because Bobby plays a song at the R&R as he leaves with shelly (I am
sot sure if it is the same song) and says to Norma, "Don't do anything I
wouldn't do" - the first time we hear "Freshly Squeezed" in Twin Peaks (
(from the original soundtrack) it was right after Ben says "Freshly squeezed"
about the orange juice he was drinking. Any other examples of songs names
taken from the dialogue?
> >



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In article <19377oINNrhc@network.ucsd.edu> mmaxwell@ucsd.edu writes:
> >In article <15441@umd5.umd.edu> jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog
> >here...) writes:
> >(big 'ol snip)
>> >>The end result -- a slimmer, more focused film that could almost stand on
>> >>its own.  Anyone else want to come forward with their "improvements" to
>> >>FWWM?

> >Kermit's suggestion about concentrating on the death of Laura Palmer makes
> >a lot of sense to me.  Take out everything with Stanley and Desmond, 
> >because it just isn't essential.  Take out Jeffries, and even take out 
> >garmonbozia.  Yes, this means no Cooper as well.  This would make it a 
> >completely different movie.  (Maybe not a better one).

Well, it would be "better" in terms of telling a more unified story, but
by no means "better" in terms of the sheer number-of-ideas-per-minute that
FWWM made you think about.  Definitely better for those who wanted to have
some sense what the story actually meant.

> >The thing is, that with all of the bits with Jeffries and Cooper and
> >the room above the convenience store are great.  They add a new dimension
> >to the movie and the story (and get all of us to go back and watch the
> >tapes over again to try and fit them in place.)  

Agreed.  Like I said, I think they deserved a completely separate movie
on their own.  There was a full-blown story in there about the Blue Rose
cases and their intersection with the drug-running -- maybe even the way
the One-Armed Man fit in with it all.  But these ideas didn't deserve to
be squeezed into the 2 hours or so devoted to Laura Palmer.

> >FWWM is an awesome, emotional
> >film experience.  I saw it twice.  I can't remember the last time that
> >i paid to see a movie twice in the theatre (well...i can, it was T2).
> >Lynch is a by god director, one who knows how to manipulate images
> >better than anyone i've seen in a long while.

Agreed wholeheartedly.  The thing is, the parts that moved me the most
about the film weren't Desmond and Cable butting heads, but Laura glimpsing
BOB behind her dresser and Laura breaking down and telling James she loved
him.  That, in my mind, is what FWWM was really "about".


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In article <H6D6qB2w165w@zitt> zitt!joe@dogface.austin.tx.us (Joe Zitt) writes:
> >melunney@jeeves.uwaterloo.ca (Mike Lunney) writes:

>> >> The order was T under Teresa's
>> >>               R under Laura's
>> >>               B under Ronette's (second episode of the second season?)
>> >>               O under Maddy's (seventh or eighth episode?)

> >Hmm... Perhaps he's spelling it backwards, and there was an attack we didn't
> >know about >between< Laura's death and Ronette's letter-placement, using
> >the letter "E".

Hmm.  I like that.  More backwards-time.

Then again, remember that he "marked" Maddy for death in the second episode
of the second season by attacking her, putting her before Ronnette (who
he didn't try to kill until the third episode).  That might be it.



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In article <goldberg.716497580@vincent1.iastate.edu> goldberg@iastate.edu (Adam Goldberg) writes:

> >Jefferies (Bowie) was definitely in "Time phase" (something to do with the
> >time loop).  He witnessed a meeting of the "aliens" but escaped before he
> >could be imprisoned in wood.  This seems to relate to the "thread" that is

> >Wood is the aliens method of containment/imprisonment.

Why wood?  Just because of the Josie death epsiode?  Both my friend and
I who enjoyed the show thought that that was rather "goofy" to say the least.
Some druid influence among the aliens no doubt.


--tom


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In article <1992Sep15.173842.20274@cs.wm.edu> adrian@cs.wm.edu (Adrian T. Filipi) writes:
> >I
> >believe the story of Windom Earle's involvement with the Lodge would be
> >very interesting. Unfortunately I would not expect to see more of Cooper than
> >was seen in FWWM.

Maybe not.  How about a pre-prequel dating back to the time when Dale was
new to the FBI and just partnered with Windom Earle?  The autobiography
makes it clear that Windom had contact with the Lodges (and maybe even BOB)
even back then.

The story could lead into the story of Caroline.  Just think: "Twin Peaks:
The Face of the Man Who Killed Me"...

Of course, Kyle wouldn't want to do another whole film just about him.
Sigh.

> > As a last and conclusionary part, It would be great to have it
> >all laid out on the table concearning Cooper and these visions, his ring, etc.

Even less likely.  David Lynch, like Andrew Cartmel, doesn't so much hate
happy endings as he hates clear endings.  Double sigh.



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In article <3Tm3qB1w164w@medley.ssdl.com> bert@medley.ssdl.com (Bert Medley  ) writes:
> >I just saw FWWM for the second time [no mean feat here in Houston TX as only 
> >2 theatres now carry it.] and realized that Annie said something verrrry
> >interesting -"The good Dale is trapped in the Lodge." - not Black Lodge,
> >not Good Lodge, nor waiting room - ,but "the Lodge".  Suppose there is one
> >and only one lodge??????
> >
> >
> >--
> >Bert Medley              !
> >bert@medley.ssdl.com     !

 I noticed this right away also.. I think "The Lodge" is composed of 3
 rooms, the Black Lodge (room), The White Lodge (room) and The Waiting Room.
 Annie saying that is like her saying "Dale is trapped in his house and can't
 leave" while in his house, Dale is in his Living Room, he is still in his
 house, thus if Dale is in either the Black/White/Waiting room, he is still
 in "The Lodge."

 This brings back and interesting parallel to Major Brigg's "dream" of Bobby's
 future in the series (maybe he SAW the future when in the White Lodge?): he
 says he dreamt of a huge house (lodge?) which was filled with light (White
 Lodge?) and that its floors were made of marble (like lodge floors), I think
 he mentioned he was filled with pride or joy and love. He further goes on
 to say he was *born and raised there* (follower of the White Lodge?) and
 though back then there was only one big room, other rooms were added onto
 it but all in all its still the same (other rooms being Black and Waiting? 
 and still the same - "One and the same"? - "The Lodge"?)

  Another question about Major Briggs, why did Major Briggs appear back
  at his home when he came from the White Lodge wearing an old fashioned
  Pilot's outfit? One of the other FBI agents who comes to investigate his
  appearance says how the Major was one of the best pilots he has ever seen.
  Why do the White Lodge need Briggs - to fly something? If so, what?
  (A UFO? :-) )

  -=*George*=-


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In article <1992Sep15.040646.27245@cco.caltech.edu> UnoJ writes:

> >2- In the series he wasted everyone's time. Think about
> >it: from the movie we know that he knew about LeBob, yet
> >he did not spend any miniscule ounce of energy pointing
> >the law enforcers in the right directions.
> >Conclusions: Mike is not _evil_ since nothing seems to
> >be so clear cut in the TP world. But his is nonetheless
> >a character that has a variey of shady purposes of his own.

Well let's think about it.  The main problem with Twin Peaks is that
Lynch did not write all the episodes himself thus opening the door
for interpretations different from his own.  Perhaps Mike was supposed
to be the good alien/spirit/pooka in the series but that isn't really
what Lynch had in mind.  The movie/series would have worked best if
it had been a 13 part series with Lynch directing and writing everything.


--tom




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In article <lba18nINNbeb@news.bbn.com> ingria@BBN.COM writes:
> >In article <Sep.13.20.27.58.1992.29730@andromeda.rutgers.edu> kwest@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Kenneth C West) writes:
> >
> >   Okay, a line in FWWM that has everybody mystified, including me, is
> >   Jacques in the Pink Room saying "I am the Great Went" and "I am as blank as
> >   a fart". I've been re-watching the series in my spare time, and have an
> >   interesting find:
> >
> >   Second season, third or fourth episode, when Norma announces that
> >   the mysterious food critic is coming to Twin peaks. No one knows who this
> >   critic is or even what they look like. The name of the critic? M.T. Wents.
> >   So, when Jacques says "I am the Great Went", I think that maybe his fart
> >   reference meant empty, as in M.T.
> >
> >No.  Remember, Jacques puts his hand to his head in the shape of a gun
> >and then ``fires'', but still stays alive; hence, the ``blank'' part.
> >But how is a fart blank?
> >
 How is a fart blank? Because it is not a sh*t - excuse my french. :-)

> >     So this means.....what? That Jacques 
> >   moonlighted as a food critic?
> >
> >But we find out who the critic is: Norma's mother, so if there's any
> >reference from the Great Went to M.T. Wentz, it's a meta-joke by
> >Lynch, et al., not one by Jacques.
> >
> >-30-
> >Bob

 I agree with The Grent Went, and The Muffin referring to Laura's and
 Jacques SEXcapades and maybe "I am blank as a fart" means there is nothing
 in bis head - drunk? These two were just jokes as far as I am concerned,
 Tommy and Buck start laughing after he says it.

 -=*George*=-


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In article <193ttpINNi5o@corax.udac.uu.se> eneq@meryl.csd.uu.se writes:
> >If someone already have made a post regarding what I'm about to discuss
> >please disregard this and give me a pointer to where I might read it and 
> >various comments to that post...
> >
> >First of all I want to state that I haven't seen FWWM and I haven't
> >seen the series XXX times so I might be out of my depth but I got to think
> >about this theory about going backwards in the lodge and rememberd something.
> >
> >Now to the tie of King Arthur; has anyone given the fact that the
> >entrance to the lodge was placed at Glastonbury Tower (or what the name now
> >was) any thought? If we go back to the legend we remember that King Arthurs
> >most trusted advisor was Merlin who (what a coincidens...) was said to live
> >backward in time. Maybe this tie to Arthur/Merlin is just a hint given by
> >Lynch to that affect that time really goes backward in the lodge (Maybe even
> >Merlin was a spirit of the White Lodge) or does the connection go even deeper? 
> >
> >Does anyone see any deeper connection between the two stories or am I
> >just out rambling about things only I see? Glad to read any followups on this
> >theme. See ya...
> >
 Merlin was also a magician (like The Magician - grandson).

 Glastonbury Grove was reffered to by Cooper as "The burial place of King
 Arthur", maybe burial place in the most important part there - maybe
 the Glastonbury Grove in Twin Peaks is an old indian burial ground where
 "Mike - the seer/shaman" is buried.

  Other references to kings was when Briggs in the series was drugged and
  talks about the white lodge he says "Even the King of Rumania couldn't
  attend" - what is so important about the King of Rumania? In a flashback
  Briggs has when describing his trip to the white lodge we see him sitting
  on a throne with a bunch of trees/plants around it (King Arthur's throne?)
  And also when he was drugged he asks "Which way to the castle?" - King
  Arthur's Castle?

 -=*George*=-


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In article <iFe6qB3w165w@zitt> zitt!joe@dogface.austin.tx.us (Joe Zitt) writes:
> >UnoJ writes:
> >
>> >> Conclusions: Mike is not _evil_ since nothing seems to
>> >> be so clear cut in the TP world. But his is nonetheless
>> >> a character that has a variey of shady purposes of his own.
> >
> >Another possibility: MIKE could simply be >incompetent< at what he does.
> >Considering that he did very little that was ultimately useful, perhaps
> >he just messed up at his task a lot. After all, we have no reason to 
> >believe that the Others are necessarily skilled at their tasks; in fact,
> >most of them seem to have >serious< communications problems.
> >
> >(Just think how much better off the world would be if we could get the
> >Black Lodge Hooked-On-Phonics B-].)
> >

You also have to remember that in the movie the OAM was being posseded and
controlled by Mike BUT in the series, the OAM for the most part ISN'T being
controlled/possesed by Mike. In the series for the most part the OAM is
Phillip Gerard thus he knows nothing about Leland being Bob, knows nothing
of Bob, says the tatoo on his arm said "Mom" and says he lost it in a car
accident.. to Phillip Gerard this is all true (or so he thinks). In the
series he was taking drugs to prevent Mike from taking him over. He says
before he was a shoe salesman he was a pharmacuticle salesman (needles,
pharmacy drugs etc.) thus his knowledge of drugs to keep Mike out, and the
drug wasn't of any composition that Albert could recognize. When taking
the drugs, Phillip Gerard has a life of his own, without them he is Mike
and takes on a whole new life/personality - what is reality to one isn't to
the other. Maybe Mike made Phillip Gerard use the drugs so he wouldn't act
the same way and give anything away to Cooper - Mike's test to see if Cooper
could figure it out for himself like The Giant was seing if Cooper could
solve the puzzles he was giving him. The Giant and the LMFAP, from the last
episode of the second season we know are "one and the same".

 The reason why the OAM in the series knew nothing of Leland being Bob is
 also like why Leland didn't remember killing Laura - it was blocked by the
 possesing spirit.

  From what I can gather Mrs. Tremond, Pierre Tremond, LMFAP, The Giant and
  the log lady's husband (4 of the 7 people shown in the red room above the
  convenience store) are good, out to help either Laura/Coop or whomever on
  their path. Everything they tell or do for someone is a hint for
  an event in the future which WILL come true ("The latter events are not
  kept a secret"). They, along with the OAM (possesed by Mike), Margaret with
  her log (possesed by her husband) and Major Briggs (linked with White Lodge)
  seem to be out to stop Bob which is one of two evils.

  I keep seeing the LMFAP being referred to as Mike.. this is not correct,
  entirely.. while he is related to Mike (His arm) he is not Mike as a whole.
  For one thing he doesn't speak like Mike did through Phillip Gerard and
  the only other time we hear Mike speaking that way is when the LMFAP is
  reattached to Phillip Gerard in the movie asking for his garmonbozia - thus
  Mike as a whole. I think Mike as a whole was represented in the red room
  as the dancing man in the owl mask - the shaman.. Coop says he thinks Mike
  was a shaman/seer in his time in the series. Mike, as a whole, is the only
  person Bob is affraid of - thus why he isn't affraid of the LMFAP around
  the formica table. Mike used to take part in the killings with Bob until
  he saw the face of God and cut off the arm with the tattoo on it (thus
  creating the LMFAP in the spirit world like someone suggested) - the only
  problem with this idea is that shouldn't the shaman only have had one
  arm in the red room? Or was it where time flows differently there that
  he could be there with 2 arms even though the LMFAP is there also? Afterall,
  most of them are one and the same anyways. :-)

  -=*George*=-

 P.S. Something else just came to me - everything that happens with the
 spirits seems like a big game - ie: only providing certain pieces of the
 puzzle to be solved. In the entire red room scene above the convenience
 store LMFAP is sitting at one end of the formica table.. Bob at the other.
 LMFAP "This is a formica, green is its color" - green usually represents
 Earth doesn't it? A woodsmand says (in the cut parts) "Our World" - this
 woodsman is the log lady's husband. It was like they were looking on the
 formica table as having a "God's eye view" of everything that happens on
 earth or in Twin Peaks. Going with my theory that LMFAP et al is good
 and Bob is evil - what does that remind you of when sitting at opposite
 ends of a table and it being a game? A game of Chess. Compare that to
 Coop's and Wyndem Earle's chess game using people as pawns, a piece gets
 taken off - someone dies.. I think this is what LMFAP's and Bob's "Chess"
 game is like also .. the LMFAP being the arm for Mike playing the game like
 Pete was for Cooper playing the chess game against Wyndem. Coop or Wyndem
 says something about how they have gone beyond the borders of the board,
 investigating them. That is like the lodge folk - they are beyond
 the borders of their "board" (Earth/Twin Peaks).

  Anyone agree with this?

   -=*George*=-


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could it be that it is "who" offers the ring that defines its 
properties?  so maybe that is why coop told laura not to
accept the ring the first time since it was being offered by
a representative of the dark lodge. in the end, as others have
posted, MIKE's purpose was not to save laura from death but to
offer her the ring so as to help transport her to the lodges
and eventually to the white lodge. 

also, think that the hypothesis that earlier it was not yet
the right time for her to except the ring since, since it was offered by the 
dark forces, and also because she was not spiritually ready, she had
not yet achieved the spiritual power to confront, and overcome her
"shadow self."

as for MIKE not stating right out that BOB was in leland was
because now that he is associated with the white lodge he
cannot interfere beyond certain limits when dealing with
the physical world of TP. like the Giant he could not help
coop right out, but could give him only vague clues, and it
was then up to coop to come up with the solutions. 

still the part with him and the LMFAP, does not fit into his
"conversion." but maybe as others have posted that the ARM
represents his connection to the darker forces. removing it
is the break, yet in the final scenes of FWWM, being in
the presence of the arm--and the way the LWFAP was situated 
near him like an appendage--that he reverted back to his old
self....but again why?


it seems to me, that while in the physical plain of TP that the
"good" lodge residents are somewhat powerless.

sally--





i tend to believe MIKE. it would be rather interesting to



-- Video meliora proboque, deteriora sequor! ### Sally A. Wilson [Ovid's _Metaphorposes_] ### sally@mica.berkeley.edu Vita non est vivere sed valere vita est. ### [Martial] ### P. Spud Peel

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UnoJ writes:

> >There is another instance, and thanks for reminding me
> >of the other one, where it appears that Laura is speaking
> >as if dazed (Lodge-speak?): in the woods with James
> >again, right after they dismount from the bike, she
> >says something that sounds like "Ishmet" and James
> >says "What?" then Laura blinks and is back in our
> >world again. People with a script should be able to
> >answer this for us quite easily I hope....

According to the script, the line before James says "What?" is:

Laura (breaking away [from James' embrace]): Shit, maybe he'll kill you.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I lived in my head mostly."                | Jim Pellmann (jgp@rational.com)
"That's not a bad neighborhood."            | RATIONAL
"There were some pretty strange neighbors." | Santa Clara, California

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eneq@Haag.DoCS.UU.SE (Rickard Eneqvist) writes:

> >Now to the tie of King Arthur; has anyone given the fact that the
> >entrance to the lodge was placed at Glastonbury Tower (or what the name now
> >was) any thought? If we go back to the legend we remember that King Arthurs
> >most trusted advisor was Merlin who (what a coincidens...) was said to live
> >backward in time. Maybe this tie to Arthur/Merlin is just a hint given by
> >Lynch to that affect that time really goes backward in the lodge (Maybe even
> >Merlin was a spirit of the White Lodge) or does the connection go even deeper? 

> >Does anyone see any deeper connection between the two stories or am I
> >just out rambling about things only I see? Glad to read any followups on this
> >theme. See ya...

This was originally discussed when the series finale was broadcast.
See my recent five-part posting on the finale commentary for a summary.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I lived in my head mostly."                | Jim Pellmann (jgp@rational.com)
"That's not a bad neighborhood."            | RATIONAL
"There were some pretty strange neighbors." | Santa Clara, California

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IT WORKS.
I read the post about "Garmonbozia" being "I is Windom Earle"
backwards. I tested it by reversing a tape. It works. It was really eerie.
It works, I tell you. It's true.
Sorry, I'm a little stunned.
Any theories? I'm as blank as a fart on this one. Why did Lynch do
this? What does it mean?

Help,


:x

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As requested, here is a repost of the Film Threat summary:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

As has been reported here, the October issue of Film Threat magazine has a
series of cover stories on "Fire Walk With Me".  Although there is really
nothing new in these articles, it still represents the most thorough coverage
of both the series and movie yet seen in print.  A must for all Peaks Freaks.

Here are the articles that appear in the issue, along with a few tidbits I
thought interesting or amusing.

* Main article: The Lynch Mob Strikes Again

  A long (9-page) description of the series and movie, including the genesis of
  the movie right after the cancellation of the series, discussion about the
  different directors used in the series, summary of the shooting script for
  the movie, the effect TP has had on Sheryl Lee, and the effect TP has had on
  TV.
  
  Has about half a dozen pictures of scenes from the movie.
  
  Points of interest:
  
  - "Many familiar faces are NOT returning [to the film], although they
    were in the original script.  [Co-screenwriter Robert] Engels acknowledges
    that several scenes were trimmed to get the film down to a still-overlong
    135 minutes.  'We had to shape the story towards Laura Palmer,' he 
    explains.  'Obviously, a number of the actors [who were cut] are
    disappointed.'  Adds Catherine Coulson, who's reprising her role as
    the Log Lady: 'It must be really devastating for some of them.  But
    the spirit of ALL of the characters is in the film.'
    
    "A few who had the opportunity to renew their 'Peaks' citizenship simply
    did not or could not.  Lara Flynn Boyle, whose Donna Hayward became a
    major part in the movie, flat-out refused to re-up (her replacement is
    Moira Kelly, last seen in the ice-skating drama 'The Cutting Edge').
    'I could say something catty and self-serving,' says Engels.  'But I
    don't know why Lara didn't want to do it.  If anything, she should have
    taken it out of gratefulness for what the series did for her.'  And sadly,
    due to Sherilyn Fenn's prior acting commitments ('Diary of a Hitman',
    'Ruby'), the saddle-shoed seductress Audrey Horne sashays no more."
    
  - "The $9.5 million budget for "Fire Walk With Me" was anteed [sic] up by
    CIBY Pictures, a French film company where Lynch has a four-flick/five-year
    deal.  'With this picture's money-making potential, we could have gone
    anywhere,' says Engels.  'Even though our last show was ranked 72nd,
    it was still seen by 10 million people.  And if those 10 million people
    go to the movie, it's a hit.'"
  
  - "Some viewers resented the series myriad plot tangents.  'A lot of times
    we got creamed because people thought, "Those assholes!  What's THAT now?"'
    Engels says.  'But we were never trying to goof anybody up.  I mean,
    every time we showed the wind blowing through the trees, then cut to a
    shot of the stoplight, somebody would start another doctrine.'"
    
  - On ABC's treatment of the show: "Engels says, 'We got shoved around a
    little.  But we didn't listen to the network as much as we should have,
    either.  We got off-track in the storytelling, and by the time we put
    in Windom Earle and got going again, it was too late.'"

  - "[Director Tina] Rathborne, according to a production assistant, had a
    zest for multiple takes--which, for the outrageous funeral scene in the
    fourth episode, reportedly numbered close to a dozen: 'Ray [Wise] had
    to ride Laura's casket up and down and up and down repeatedly as Grace
    Zabriskie [playing Sarah Palmer] wailed, "Leland, don't ruin this too!"'
    Wise himself says the experience was 'not something I'd want to do again.
    It was like a mechanical bull going insane.  I had to surpress the urge
    to giggle.'"
    
  - On Lynch's behavior on the set: "Not so amusing to some is Lynch's
    penchant for using a megaphone on the set--regardless of his distance
    from the person he's addressing.  Recalls the anonymous production 
    assistant:  'One time he used it while I was standing right next to
    him.  I jumped three feet.'"  
    
    (I can't help but think that this was the impetus for the megaphone
    gags in "On the Air".)
    
  - "According to Engels, he and Lynch wasted little time [after the series
    was canceled] devising an outline for the movie.  'We liked these people
    and liked being in that place,' he says.  'We just sort of got caught up
    in it.'  Once the series was officially dead at ABC, and potential deals
    to revive on a cable channel ('not enough money could be raised to cover
    the $1.2 million-per-episode budget') and Fox Television (studio chieftain
    Barry Diller 'always felt that "Twin Peaks" was the series THEY should
    have done') fell through, the pair quickly tapped out the screenplay.
    
    "Why did they go with a 'prequel' instead of a sequel?  'This may sound
    like bullshit, but there really wasn't a conscious decision about which
    was the coolest story,' says Engels.  'It was just kind of what we
    arrived at.  The challenge was that everyone already knows how it ends.
    We had to turn that into a STRENGTH--as opposed to people sitting there
    thinking, "This is kind of dumb."  It gave us more freedom to create
    suspense than you'd initially think."
    
  - "Engels says moviegoers 'should be able to enjoy the film without having
    seen the series.'  To ensure that the screenplay stood firmly on its own
    while remaining true to 'Twin Peaks,' the script was flagged by several
    nonviewers as well as die-hard fans.  In addition, a researcher was hired
    to check the storyline's consistency with "The Secret Diary of Laura
    Palmer," "Diane ... The Twin Peaks Tapes of Agent Cooper," and other
    literary spinoffs.
    
    "Luckily for the writers, there were few logistical problems.  'The pilot
    was so loaded with stuff, so marvelously ambiguous, that we could always
    find a place to get around things,' says Engels.  'We were helped by the
    fact that Cooper wasn't on the Teresa Banks case [referenced several times
    in the series], and that he said he wanted Albert [Rosenfeld, played by
    Miguel Ferrer]--not Sam Stanley--when he drove toward Twin Peaks in the
    pilot.  That allowed us to open up the Banks story."
    
  - "'Twin Peaks' fashionably rustic lodge, the Great Northern, was barely
    shuttered when CBS' 'Northern Exposure'--another hour-long drama peopled
    with offbeat characters and filmed in the wilds of Washington State--became
    the new darling of media critics.  Although the two series are quite
    different--'Exposure' favors frothy, message-filled storylines, whereas
    'Peaks' preferred a murkier, more cynical tone--some have pointed out their
    surface similarities.  Bob Engels, for one, finds 'Exposure's' claims to
    originality offensive.  'I like [the people behind the show], and I don't
    mean to say they're copycats.  But to think that 'Northern Exposure' would
    exist at all without us is preposterous.  I mean, they have a waitress
    named Shelly--they've had a couple of things in there that were a little
    out of line, that they shouldn't have done.  But the real tragedy is that
    there aren't more shows like these on TV.'"

* Side article: Cherry Pie in the Sky

  A half-page article on the things fans did when TP was canceled.  Covers
  the creation of COOP and the Twin Peaks Gazette.
  
* Side article: The Smokin' "Twin Peaks" TV Episode Log

  A two-page listing of all TV episodes, giving titles, airdates, writer and
  director credits, short plot summaries, new characters, and other trivia.
  
  Although it has more than a few errors, and the writer clearly dislikes
  most of the post-Leland episodes, the titles he has thought up are clever,
  and it could be handy in looking up scenes on tape.
  
  Points of interest:
  
  - "Peak Freak Tidbit: On Rick Dee's short-lived TV loser 'Into the Night,'
    Madchen Amick--not Fenn--actually performed the amazing cherry stem trick."
  
* Side article: Lynch's Hall of Freaks

  A one-page chart showing the "cinematic anomalies" from Lynch's works,
  listing their "traits, talents, and fate".  Includes:
  
  - Henry's Baby from "Eraserhead"
  - Radiator Lady from "Eraserhead"
  - John Merrick from "The Elephan Man"
  - Sandworms from "Dune"
  - Baron Harkonnen from "Dune"
  - Ben, the Suave One from "Blue Velvet"
  - Nadine Hurley from "Twin Peaks"
  - Dr. Jacoby from "Twin Peaks"
  - Bobby Peru from "Wild At Heart"
  
* Side article: Into the Wood

  A one-page article about Catherine Coulson, who plays the Log Lady.
  
  Points of interest:
  
  - The Log Lady was a former ballroom dance instructor.
  
  - "'The first log brought to David [Lynch] was hollowed out, and he didn't
    like it at all.' says Coulson.  Lynch wanted Ponderosa Pine--a type of
    wood on which his father, a former research scientist for the U.S. Forest
    Service, did his Ph.D. thesis.  He settled on a solid, sap-oozing
    50-pounder from the Northwest; the log had to last, as Lynch decided there
    would be no stump doubles.  ('One time, on "Donahue," they used another
    log--but it was very offensive,' Coulson says.)"
  
* Side article: Id's Showtime!

  A one-page interview with Frank Silva, who plays Killer Bob.
  
  Points of interest:
  
  - "Silva believes the name 'Bob' is Lynch's nod to his own well-documented
    weakness for Bob's Big Boy restaurants.  It's hard to fathom how a
    freckle-faced fast-food icon with a fat ass could inspire such a sinister
    character.  But then, Lynch finds evil in the unlikeliest of places."
    
  - "Q: Have you received other acting offers?
  
     A: Not really.  But I did a stag party for a guy in Santa Monica.  His
        friends thought it would be great if Bob could be there, because this
        guy was so terrified of him.  I agreed to do it for SAG minimum.  So
        I went over to the house just as the stripper was finishing her
        striptease, and before I went in they had the guy blindfolded and
        handcuffed to a chair.  I hid behind the sofa and they took the
        blindfold off.  They played a tape of 'Twin Peaks' clips that were
        all horrific scenes with Bob; the guy was freaking out.  When the tape
        ended, I sprang out from the sofa.  I crawled up to him and started
        speaking backwards.  His wife-to-be was named Sheryl, so I screamed in
        his face, 'Beware!  Sheryl is my SISTER!'  He just totally flipped
        out."
  
* Side article: Little Fop of Horrors

  Two-page article on Michael Anderson, the little person who plays the 
  Man From Another Place.
  
  Points of interest:
  
  - Has a picture of Cooper and Man From Another Place in the Red Room.
    MFAP is examining a ring.  (Presumably a scene from the movie?)
    
  - Picture has caption written backwards.  You must hold it up to a mirror
    to read it.
  
* Side article: Ire Walk With Me

  Half-page article on the real-life town of Snoqualmie Falls, and the crass
  commercialism there the series has inspired.

As I said, it is quite a comprehensive look at TP, well worth hunting down:

Film Threat (The Other Movie Magazine)
October 1992 (Issue No. 6, Volume 2)
ISSN 0896-6389
Single copies can be ordered for $5.00 each from:
             Film Threat Back Issues Dept.
             9171 Wilshire Blvd., Suite 300
             Beverly Hills, CA  90210

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I lived in my head mostly."                | Jim Pellmann (jgp@rational.com)
"That's not a bad neighborhood."            | RATIONAL
"There were some pretty strange neighbors." | Santa Clara, California

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In article <1992Sep15.211721.22802@cs.mun.ca> georgen@pooky.cs.mun.ca (George Noel) writes:

>> >>Don't Do Anything I Wouldn't Do plays when Stanley and Desmond are at Hap's.

> >This could be another example of Dear Meadow being an evil twin of Twin
> >Peaks because Bobby plays a song at the R&R as he leaves with shelly (I am
> >sot sure if it is the same song) and says to Norma, "Don't do anything I
> >wouldn't do"

Pointless point: the cut in that case was "I'm Hurt Bad" from Industrial
Symphony #1.

 - the first time we hear "Freshly Squeezed" in Twin Peaks (
> >(from the original soundtrack) it was right after Ben says "Freshly squeezed"
> >about the orange juice he was drinking.

ObPedantry: No, that was Coop, commenting about the grapefruits at the Great
Northern (and Audrey's in particular *leer*).

> > Any other examples of songs names
> >taken from the dialogue?

Well, the cut referred to as "Dancing With A Flashlight" was used in #2008,
when Jerry reminisced about Louise Dombrowski doing just that, but I don't
know if that's the official title...

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I've been looking all over for copies of episode 5 of Twin Peaks.  I have  
the WorldVision log with the seven episodes, but I haven't been able to  
find episode 5 (I unfortunately was forced to buy them individually).  If  
anyone can tell me a mail order place to get it quickly, that would be  
great.

Alternatively, I'd be glad to reimburse someone for time and expense in  
sending me a tape of episode five and others if they are available.

Thanks!

-- Frank
__________________________________________________________________________
Frank Price      | wprice@pomona.claremont.edu
                 | "Nothing crashes like a Macintosh."
                 |      - Guy Kawasaki

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 i dont remember who posted about the king arthur/merlin reference, but
i think that merlin only lived backwards in time in t.h. white's "the
once and future king". every other author that i have read mentions nothing
about merlin living backwards in time... even malory says nothing about it.
 i dont think that there is much relevance to king arthur, except the
glastonbury grove... and that's kind of weak at best.

----
gsak@waffle.sns.com  (Gordon Sakamoto)
Systems'n'Software Free Public Access BBS --- (510)623-8652

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   Maybe it's just me, but has anyone noticed yet how odd it is that the
Trailer Park guy says that many people have been visiting Teresa's place?
I mean, Teresa had no family, no friends, and so not many people would care
just to see where she used to live.  And I'm sure the cops didn't spend too
much time looking for clues in there, if they went in there at all.
   So what's the deal?  Who are the visitors?
   I would say that the ice-pack woman is one of the visitors, stopping in to
see the trailer.  But why did she come in?  What was the whole point of that
sequence?

THEORY:  Well I think perhaps the people that have been visiting were from the
lodges.  Both of them.  They were looking for the ring, which no one found
because it was under the Deputy's trailer.  The ice-pack lady is one of them,
from the White Lodge, because she gives Desmond a (helpful?) vision.

Then Desmond found it, went to the Lodge in his new reverse-time-stream, and
gave the ring to the OAM.

So, plausible or not?

-Dres


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adrian@cs.wm.edu (Adrian T. Filipi) writes:

> > As a second part, I
> > believe the story of Windom Earle's involvement with the Lodge would prove to
> > very interesting. Unfortunately I would not expect to see any more of Cooper 
> > was seen in FWWM. 

Pending, of course, K McL's wanting to continue, Windom Earle's story is quite
closely woven with Coop's; I would expect the story to run from WE's time in
Blue Book up until the death of Caroline.


--
"Go to an extreme and then retreat to a more useful position"  --  Brian Eno
Joe Zitt        ...cs.utexas.edu!kvue!zitt!joe         (512)450-1916

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One simple question : I wonder who the murder really was ??

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The following statements do not necessarily reflect those of the
poster or the company the posting is from; and only definitely
represent the thoughts and feelings of Summer Storm.

Re: Time theory; good vs. bad; dads & daughters; baby laxative

There's been a lot of speculation about the rings, and about time
going backwards/forwards. How about this:

On Quantum Leap, they explain time thus: imagine your life is a
string. Your birth is one end; your death is the other. Now put the
two ends together. (A ring of sorts.) Now take the string, and
bunch it up. Different points in the string will touch each other;
you can leap from point to point when this happens. So, maybe the
rings symbolize that you are now able to jump from point to point
within your own lifetime. This would help to explain why the lodge
doesn't always seem to go backwards. 

Good/bad stuff: In TP the series, people/entities seem to go
through some major(not Briggs) change to get from good to bad or
vice versa. Leo gets shot-goes from being an all around SOB to
helping the Major escape from Windom. Nadine tries to commit
suicide, and goes from being a mean crazy person to a funny teenage
crazy person, gets bonked on the head, and goes back to mean (her
journey is obviously far from over). Audrey falls in love w/Coop,
and goes from being a self absorbed little trouble maker to being
her dad's "Bobby Kennedy." Ben faces ruination, has a breakdown,
and end's up trying to learn to be good (though at first he's only
trying to stop Catherine.) In My Life, My Tapes, Windom disappears,
we never really know what he goes through, and he comes back
decidedly evil. It seems that the more traumatic the journey, the
further from where you start is where you end up. In reference to
the Log Lady, perhaps she is still going through her "journey" from
one place to the other. This would explain why she seems so bizarre
to everyone, and why she seems neutral.

Dads & their daughters: Isabella Rosellini (sp?) was supposed to
play the part of Josie Packard, but backed out. She and Lynch
split. Her father was a director. So, did Lynch make daddy the bad
guy in reference to what was going on in his life at the time? Not
my theory, it got brought up in conversation.

Baby Laxative: Used to "step on" cocaine/methadrine/etc. to
decrease its purity and increase yield. Not always a ripoff as pure
cocaine can be lethal to the casual user. However, finding that
everything you bought is laxative would not only constitute a rip
off, but would probably make you want to "run" and get even!

Someone mentioned that Coop did not find a letter under Ronette's
finger nail in the pilot. Correct. But, he did find a letter later
in the series, when BOB got past the guard at the door, put the
letter under her nail, and "tainted" her IV w/halaperadol (sp?).

                    -----Summer Storm

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Adam Goldberg writes:

   Wood is the aliens method of containment/imprisonment.

Thomas J Lohmanwrites:

   Why wood?  Just because of the Josie death epsiode?  Both my friend and
   I who enjoyed the show thought that that was rather "goofy" to say the least.
   Some druid influence among the aliens no doubt.

Sez I:

   Don't forget The Log!

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FORMICA (fawr-MIGH'kuh) A trademark for any of various high-pressure 
laminated plastic sheets of melamine and phenolic materials 
used esp. for chemical and heat-resistant surfaces.

Heat-resistant!?!?!  Firewalk (sic) with me on my formica table.

carpe diem,
Kevin

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In article <10340076@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM> brian@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Wood) writes:

> >In your theater, is the film as scratched up and the sound as bad as it
> >was in the theater I saw TP in (Boulder, CO)?  And was there anything in
> >the release to indicate why so many listings read "Twin Peaks: Firewalk
> >with me"?

The theater in which I saw it (Nickelodeon at BU) also had a problem 
with the sound and file quality.  In fact the film stopped twice and the
house lights came up.  We actually missed about 2 minutes of the film due
to these blunders.  Most people thought it was Lynch behind it...ooowww the
eerie spirits of Twin Peaks are possessing the film projector...


--tom

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In article <BunsBx.J8v@news.cso.uiuc.edu> ash50842@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Dres) writes:
> >   Maybe it's just me, but has anyone noticed yet how odd it is that the
> >Trailer Park guy says that many people have been visiting Teresa's place?
> >I mean, Teresa had no family, no friends, and so not many people would care
> >just to see where she used to live.  And I'm sure the cops didn't spend too
> >much time looking for clues in there, if they went in there at all.
> >   So what's the deal?  Who are the visitors?
> >   I would say that the ice-pack woman is one of the visitors, stopping in to
> >see the trailer.  But why did she come in?  What was the whole point of that
> >sequence?
> >
> >THEORY:  Well I think perhaps the people that have been visiting were from the
> >lodges.  Both of them.  They were looking for the ring, which no one found
> >because it was under the Deputy's trailer.  The ice-pack lady is one of them,
>from the White Lodge, because she gives Desmond a (helpful?) vision.

That's what I think too.  Especially since after he comes back from his
vision (or whatever) and finds Desmond looking at him he says something
like, "I've been places.  I don't want to go any more, I just want to
stay here."  I take that to mean 'been places' the way agent Jeffries 'goes
places.'


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Someone help me please:

I still don't get the monkey.  What does a monkey have to do with TP? owls?
the Northwest? the lodges? anything?

most humble thanks

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In article <10340077@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM> brian@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Wood) writes:

> >I would be willing to bet that Johnny Horne knew more than we ever
> >suspected about the evil in TP.  That's a thread they never really
> >developed.  And how did he get the way he was (autistic? retarded?) -
> >was it also a case of incest the last time the Gateway to the White/Black
> >lodge was open - twentysomething years ago?  Johhny was 27 during the
> >series, according to Audrey.

I recall that Audrey overheard Ben talking about how when Johnny and Audrey
were little, she had left a rollerskate or something on the steps, and Johnny
slipped on it and fell, and has been the way he is now ever since.  Maybe I
read this in a script excerpt or something.  Anyway, Audrey cried after she
heard this, knowing she was responsible for Johnny's condition.

Does anybody else remember this?  I don't have a copy of the timeline available
right now to check...


--
John Sommerville (jes2x@Virginia.Edu)     "I'll see you in the trees..."

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> >It's "on a pale horse"  and yes it does come from revelations.  The 4th
> >horseman of the apocalypse is Death and corruption who rides a pale horse.

The translation "pale" comes from the Greek word that is pronounced 
"chloros", from which is derived the modern English word "chlorine". 
The pale color was thus actually a light green.

In the film, I think the horse is meant to represent drugs.  Sarah saw
the horse after being drugged, and Laura was busy sniffing cocaine at that
time.

Brian
(If you don't know my .sig by now, may Bob infect your sister)


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In article <10340077@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM> brian@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Wood) writes:
> >I'm sure we've all noticed the Indian themes in TP:
> >
> >*Indian legends mentioned by Hawk
> >*Indian head gas pumps
> >*The Indian whooping noise that IS the sound the arm (LMFAP) makes
> >*Johnny Horne and his Indian headdress
> >*More, anybody?
> >
> >I would be willing to bet that Johnny Horne knew more than we ever
> >suspected about the evil in TP.  That's a thread they never really
> >developed.  And how did he get the way he was (autistic? retarded?) -
> >was it also a case of incest the last time the Gateway to the White/Black
> >lodge was open - twentysomething years ago?  Johhny was 27 during the
> >series, according to Audrey.
> >
> >Brian Wood
> >(If you don't know my .sig by now, may Bob infect your sister)
> >


I do not think that Johnny was either autistic, or retarted. I
think, didn't Audrey mention something to this effect in one
of the shows or was it mentioned in Laura's Diary, that he
is just like that much in part to his dysfunctional family.

Laura mentions Johnny a few times in her diary, and because
of this I always thought there was more to the character than
we were shown. Wasn't Johnny shooting plastic buffalo's during
Ben's "I want to learn how to be good" speech to JJ Wheeler?

Though I doubt that Ben molested Johnny. The molestation theme
has always had me wondering, esp. after hearing Leland's
dying confession. I wondered at the time if he too was not
molested.


Sally--

-- Video meliora proboque, deteriora sequor! ### Sally A. Wilson [Ovid's _Metaphorposes_] ### sally@mica.berkeley.edu Vita non est vivere sed valere vita est. ### [Martial] ### P. Spud Peel

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In article <1992Sep15.231208.23932@cs.mun.ca> georgen@pooky.cs.mun.ca (George
Noel) writes:
 The Giant and the LMFAP, from the last
> >episode of the second season we know are "one and the same".

Careful, George. Never take Lynch/Engels at face value.
"One and the same" does not necessarily mean "identical".
I really dounbt they meant that. Since Carel Struycken did
not appear in the movie we are left to ponder on that question,
but I think that if you refer to a person, say you or me, then
each of us is composed of different facets. Depending on our
mood and feelings we tend to show one (or a few) over others.
Yet they are all a part of a whole, hence "one and the same."
Lynch and co-writers may have well had the same in mind.

> >
> >  I keep seeing the LMFAP being referred to as Mike.. this is not correct,
> >  entirely.. while he is related to Mike (His arm) he is not Mike as a whole.

His name is Michael Anderson, therefore the reference.


   UnoJ





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In article <15466@umd5.umd.edu>, jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog here...) writes...
> >In article <1992Sep15.173842.20274@cs.wm.edu> adrian@cs.wm.edu (Adrian T. Filipi) writes:
>> >>I
>> >>believe the story of Windom Earle's involvement with the Lodge would be
>> >>very interesting. Unfortunately I would not expect to see more of Cooper than
>> >>was seen in FWWM.

> >Maybe not.  How about a pre-prequel dating back to the time when Dale was
> >new to the FBI and just partnered with Windom Earle?  The autobiography
> >makes it clear that Windom had contact with the Lodges (and maybe even BOB)
> >even back then.

     I was thinking of something even more elaborate: the sequel would
     be divided into thirds, like FWWM was (pre-editing, anyway).

     I. Project Bluebook -- Gordon Cole, Major Briggs and Windom
        Earle make an odd, ominous, discovery investigating the
        bizarre murder of a woman in Bend, Oregon... as the
        Nixon Administration, which doesn't believe in Little
        Green Men From Mars, breaks the Project apart...

    II. Blue Rose (5 Years Later) -- Agent Phillip Jeffries investigates
        the disappearence in Missoula, Montana of an Agent named Judy,
        who, until now, had been Cole's top Blue Rose operative... 
        Jeffries successfully (perhaps) infiltrates The Black Lodge
        and some of its secrets are laid before him... as he confronts
        the Evil Agent Cooper...  

   III. Dweller at the Threshold -- Cooper is revealed, as Cole joins
        forces with Major Briggs (and Hawk) to attempt a rescue of
        "The Good Dale."  The question of Annie Blackburn's health
        is answered satisfactorily... Briggs is killed heroically
        and afterwards, faces the biggest challenge of his "life..."

     Or something like that...  How's that sound?

> >The story could lead into the story of Caroline.  Just think: "Twin Peaks:
> >The Face of the Man Who Killed Me"...

Of course, Kyle wouldn't want to do another whole film just about him.
> >Sigh.

     Probably not, but I'm sure he could be... er... "convinced."
     Yes, his life is his own, but he owes that life entirely to
     David Lynch and a little movie called "Blue Velvet."  
     Anyone ever make the connection between Kyle's reluctance to
     have anything more to do with Peaks and his lover Lara Flyn
     Boyle's flat out REFUSAL to have anything more to do with
     Peaks?


                 Shortly  thereafter, the health of  Annie
                 Blackburn still in question, the behavior
                 of Special Agent  Dale Cooper was noticed
                 __________________________to have changed.
                                              Scott Gorcey.            

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Where can I find these amazing Hypercard Stacks I keep hearing about?
Can't wait to see what all the fuss is about. While I'm at it, what's
the full address for Audrey? I can't remember it.

******************KT           Andrew Walsh           KT******************
*          ___   *       Mount Allison University       *   ___          * 
*   ______/0  \  *            <awalsh@mta.ca>           *  /  0\______   *
*  /          |  *    {There's only two songs in me,}   *  |          \  *
*  -------|\/|~  *     {And I just wrote the third.}    *  ~|\/|-------  *
*       /-|/\|-\ *                - TMBG                * /-|/\|-\       * 
*  OPUS FOR PREZ *   <Be cool or be cast out.> - RUSH   *  OPUS FOR PREZ *
******************Warning : This sig will self-destruct.******************

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Someone mentioned that they saw a listing for a book called "Twin Peaks 
Revisited" in the list of Forthcoming Books.  I checked into this.  It was
supposed to be written by Mark Altman and put out by Pioneer Books.  This
is the same outfit that put out the "Behind The Scenes" book last year.

I called Pioneer and they said the book was canceled due to the fact that
"the movie bombed".  So there is not going to be a "TP Revisited" book.

For those who missed out on "Behind The Scenes" I'll include my review
from when it came out in February, 1991.  Pioneer says it is out of print,
yet they can fill orders from individuals (huh?).  Anyway, you can try
ordering it from them, if you're interested.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

                         Twin Peaks: Behind The Scenes
                  An Unofficial Visitors Guide to Twin Peaks

                               by Mark A. Altman

                          trade paperback, 152 pages
                                    $14.95
                             ISBN # 1-55698-284-4

                          published By Pioneer Books
                              5715 N. Balsam Road
                              Las Vegas, NV  89130
                                (702) 658-2090

This book was put out in a hurry to capitalize on the dwindling Peaks mania,
and it shows.  A desktop publisher could produce a book with far better
production values than this one.

There is literally not a single page that isn't filled with typos, bizarre
hyphenation, formatting errors, duplicate paragraphs, conflicting information,
multiple spellings of characters' and actors' names, or (worst of all) 
horrible grammar.

(In its partial defense, the book covers plot events up through Leland's
death, so they got the book out to stores in less than two months.)

This is put out by a company that specializes in books for die-hard fans.  The
back pages contain ads (Couch Potato Book Catalog) for titles such as "The Dark
Shadows Tribute Book," "Monsterland Fear Book," "The Trek Crew Book," "The
Doctor Who Encyclopedia," and "The Lost in Space Technical Manual."

According to his biography, Altman is a "prominent film and television
journalist" who writes for such magazines as Starlog and Cinefantastique,
and wrote the scripts for the films "Moving Targets" and "Moving Targets II."
It also notes:  "As a 1988 graduate of Brandeis University, the author never
knew or met Diane Shapiro."  Nor did he take any English composition classes,
apparently.

The copyright page also tells us that the book is not licensed by Lynch/Frost
Productions and it is "a scholarly work intended to explore an American
cultural phenomenon and use "Twin Peaks" as a case study in the exploration of
a cult television show."  Yeah, right.

There are a fair number of black and white production still photos (most of
which we've seen in other magazine or newspaper articles) and a number of Peaks
related magazine covers.

What it lacks in polish, it definitely makes up for in enthusiasm and new
information.  Altman has spent time talking to the production team and provides
lots of background on the producers and writers as well as nearly all of the
directors.   There is some insight into the locations used for various scenes
and some set details that haven't been noticed before.  And he apparently had
an extensive interview with Miguel Ferrer, whom he quotes often.

Best of all, there are lots of plot, casting, and production tidbits that I
haven't seen discussed anywhere, even on the net.  I'll list some of those
later.  In short, this is a "must have" for the true Peaks Freak.

Contents:

- Introduction - "I'd Rather Be Here Than Philadelphia"

- Chapter 1 - The Genesis of Twin Peaks - "Wrapped in Plastic"
  discussion of Lynch's previous work and how the pilot came about

- Chapter 2 - First Season - "She's Full of Secrets"
  introduces the production team, themes explored, Peaks mania

- Chapter 3 - Second Season - "The Owls Are Not What They Seem"
  similar coverage for second season (up through Leland's death)

- Chapter 4 - The Cast - "I Hate Cherry Pie . . . Really"
  brief biographies of the major cast members

- Chapter 5 - The Creative Team - "Look, It's Trying To Think"
  more on Lynch, Frost, Harley Peyton (producer/writer), and Robert Engels 
  (executive script consultant)

- Chapter 6 - The Merchandising - "Dear Diary"
  the diary, audio tape, and future merchandising plans

- Chapter 7 - After Laura - "The Woods Hold Many Spirits"
  recurring themes and conventions, plot developments, new characters

- Chapter 8 - The Ten Best Theories About Who Killed Laura Palmer
  nothing that hadn't been discussed on the net

- Episode Guide - plot summaries for the pilot and episodes 1 through
  16 (Leland's death)

- Appendix A - A Twin Peaks Freaks Filmography
  a short list of films with Peaks actors, writers, directors, and themes

- Appendix B - Glossary
  a fairly comprehensive list of characters and places, with many 'one scene'
  minor characters

New revelations from the book:

- confirms that Mark Frost purposely delayed revelation of Laura's killer
  as a means to force ABC to renew for a second season
  
- Lynch first wanted to set the show in North Dakota, but Frost convinced him
  it was "a flat barren place that's very cold"
  
- the only change ABC has imposed was changing the town's population from 
  Frost's original 5,201 to 51,201
  
- the first choice for Sheriff Truman was David Strathairn (Moss on "Molly
  Dodd", later appeared as a quirky sheriff on Wiseguy)
  
- Frost confirmed that the show's title refers to "a male joke about women's
  breasts," whose in particular he did not say
  
- Ben & Jerry's sent ice cream to them, and Lynch and Frost suggested a new
  flavor containing donut pieces, the sale of which would benefit the fight
  to save the spotted owl
  
- Gordon Cole is the name of a character in the movie "Sunset Boulevard"

- William S. Burroughs expressed interest in playing a part and they
  wanted to get him to play the mayor's brother, but it didn't work out
  
- Frost directed all the "Invitation to Love" segments; they were dropped
  due to episode running time constraints; at one point they considered
  having the lead actors from the soap vacation in Twin Peaks
  
- Madchen Amick originally auditioned for the part of Donna; Shelly was 
  only to be a minor character in the pilot, but her part was expanded
  
- Dangling subplots were not forgotten, according to Peyton: Ronette's
  coma only lasted a week and Mike Nelson only disappeared for a few days
  in Twin Peaks time
  
- Director Todd Holland reveals that it was the oriental man (Jonathan)
  who was watching Josie and Truman make love during the thunderstorm
  
- James' alcoholic mom became the subject of a running joke on the set;
  they actually filmed a scene with her, but had to keep cutting it out
  due to time constraints
  
- Likewise, a scene filmed for episode 3 was cut:  Cooper visited Laura's
  grave and an old caretaker explained "that if you put your ear to the 
  ground, you can hear the dead 'singing' as the wood of the casket expands
  beneath the sod"
  
- future merchandising is to include a computer game, Cooper's autobiography
  (consisting of every tape recording he's made since the age of 17), and
  a guidebook to Twin Peaks, describing walking tours and "where to get
  a really good donut"
  
- of Bob's ability to possess a human soul, Frost says:

  "It's kind of like the relationship between an artist and an angel.  He is a
  creature from somewhere else and maybe he's only from within Leland.  We
  don't exactly say where he was belched up from.  He is somebody who kind of
  went along for the ride.  
  
  "When Leland talks about knowing Bob as a child and says this was someone who
  invited me to play and I invited him in, there's a certain classic type of
  vampire myth that comes into play when a soul that invites something into it
  to take part in its life cannot then refuse it anything.  That's a myth that
  goes way back before pre-Christian times and that's one possible explanation
  . . . the other is that Leland is just completely whacked out of his mind.
  
  "We want you to decide what you think is right because I don't know for sure
  that things like that exist and I don't know that they don't."
  
- a note in the summary for the first season finale says: "The assailant
  who attacks Dr. Jacoby was never revealed on the show, but it was indeed
  Leland possessed by Bob, according to Mark Frost.  He sees Maddy leaving
  the house and follows her.  Fearing that Jacoby is going to attack her,
  he strikes the doctor and is forced to leave when James and Donna arrive."
  
--------------------

If you can't find this in your local bookstore, you can order it from the above
address.  Send check or money order, and add $3.25 for postage ($7.00 if you
want rush service).

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I lived in my head mostly."                | Jim Pellmann (jgp@rational.com)
"That's not a bad neighborhood."            | RATIONAL
"There were some pretty strange neighbors." | Santa Clara, California

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In article <10340076@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM> brian@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Wood) writes:
> >The spirits that are in the wood communicate via wind.  Here are some
> >supporting arguments:
> > 
> >  1. In the movie, the camera pans down the telephone/power pole with
> >     the 6 on it as we hear the Indian whooping noise, reinforcing the
> >     concept that's pretty much been pounded into us that spirits are
> >     in the wood. (Remember Hawk's comment to the Log Lady that "there
> >     are a lot of spirits in the wood, aren't there?" from season one).
> >
> >  2. In season one, Lucy explains that a call sounds like long distance
> >     because it has that whooshing sound, like wind blowing through the
> >     trees.
> >
> >  3. We are given fairly frequent interludes of blowing trees.  That
> >     imagery is not insignificant.
> >


So is "great went" really "great wind," spoken in French-CAnadian? :-)


> >The new reference to electricity has me a little perplexed, but it could
> >be that the spirits 'electricity' is the wind.
> >
> >I am strongly reminded of the Indian legends of the four forces of nature:
> >Earth, Wind, Fire and Water.  We have seen constant references in the
> >series to wind, fire and water, but I can't really think of any related
> >to Earth. (Maybe "Save the Pine Weasel").  Any thoughts?
> >

Don't remember the classical four elements: the same ones, save that
it's (no-motion-indicated) air.  In any case, caves are in the earth, or
a mixture of earth, air, and water, made visible through fire (or electricity)

-- Bruce Pencek bpencek@nevada.edu Political Science Dept bpencek@nevada2.bitnet University of Nevada, Las Vegas (702) 739-3307 "Just because I work at UNLV, it doesn't mean I support basketball."

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In article <1992Sep16.153814.21797@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> jes2x@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (John Sommerville) writes:
> >In article <10340077@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM> brian@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Wood) writes:

>> >>I would be willing to bet that Johnny Horne knew more than we ever
>> >>suspected about the evil in TP.  That's a thread they never really
>> >>developed.  And how did he get the way he was (autistic? retarded?) -

> >I recall that Audrey overheard Ben talking about how when Johnny and Audrey
> >were little, she had left a rollerskate or something on the steps, and Johnny
> >slipped on it and fell, and has been the way he is now ever since.  Maybe I
> >read this in a script excerpt or something.

Yep, that was from a scene cut from episode 6 of the first season.

> >Anyway, Audrey cried after she
> >heard this, knowing she was responsible for Johnny's condition.

Except that after she left her hiding place, Dr. Jacoby went on to reassure
Sylvia Horne that Audrey wasn't responsible... but Audrey didn't hear that
bit.  It would have been a wonderful subplot.  Shame they cut it.

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In article <Buooqv.E6p@acsu.buffalo.edu> v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey) writes:
> >     I was thinking of something even more elaborate: the sequel would
> >     be divided into thirds, like FWWM was (pre-editing, anyway).

> >     I. Project Bluebook -- Gordon Cole, Major Briggs and Windom
> >        Earle make an odd, ominous, discovery investigating the
> >        bizarre murder of a woman in Bend, Oregon... as the
> >        Nixon Administration, which doesn't believe in Little
> >        Green Men From Mars, breaks the Project apart...

> >    II. Blue Rose (5 Years Later) -- Agent Phillip Jeffries investigates
> >        the disappearence in Missoula, Montana of an Agent named Judy,
> >        who, until now, had been Cole's top Blue Rose operative... 
> >        Jeffries successfully (perhaps) infiltrates The Black Lodge
> >        and some of its secrets are laid before him... as he confronts
> >        the Evil Agent Cooper...  

minor point: Judy appears to actually be around at whatever time Jeffries
came from.  After all, she's "positive about this".

> >   III. Dweller at the Threshold -- Cooper is revealed, as Cole joins
> >        forces with Major Briggs (and Hawk) to attempt a rescue of
> >        "The Good Dale."  The question of Annie Blackburn's health
> >        is answered satisfactorily... Briggs is killed heroically
> >        and afterwards, faces the biggest challenge of his "life..."

> >     Or something like that...  How's that sound?

Far too mainstream for Lynch.  Explains too much.  However... it would
make a BRILLIANT piece of fan fiction.  Or maybe even... dare we say?...
an independent novel.

My other worry is that, with a trilogy structure, once again all the
segments would be too squeezed to be coherent.  If it weren't for the
two-hour time limit for a movie, I'd say go for it.  However, I think
that part III should probably be a film on its own in that case.

>> >>Of course, Kyle wouldn't want to do another whole film just about him.
>> >>Sigh.

> >     Probably not, but I'm sure he could be... er... "convinced."
> >     Yes, his life is his own, but he owes that life entirely to
> >     David Lynch and a little movie called "Blue Velvet."  

The only way I could think of that Kyle would be glad to come back is
if he pulled a Blake (or a Spock) -- have it in his contract that he
would be DEAD, as dead as humanly possible in Twin Peaks.

Of course, when the focus of the show has been dead since before the
first episode, and appeared in the next fifteen episodes, being dead
doesn't really mean that much.

> >     Anyone ever make the connection between Kyle's reluctance to
> >     have anything more to do with Peaks and his lover Lara Flyn
> >     Boyle's flat out REFUSAL to have anything more to do with
> >     Peaks?

Why, yes.  I've just been too polite to say anything about it.  :-)

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I was just thinking about this phrase.... sounds like "fell asleep", leading
to some kind of sleep - victim correlation. Or perhaps life in a Lodge is in
some way a sleep-like state ( dreamlike? )

Anyone who's familiar with the Lovecraft mythos and, in particular, the
Nyarlathotep stuff ( I don't have actual quotes ) : the " fell a " part could
have other meanings ( fellah, fellahin, etc. ) ???????

Musings
       - T

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In article <1939lsINNd4i@agate.berkeley.edu>, sally@anableps.berkeley.edu
(S. A. Wilson) wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > CIRCLES: Major Briggs, first name is Garland. The one TP character who

Aha!  garland=wreath warn on head (laurel wreaths symbol of the hero)
Listed in Roget's under the circlularity entry.
If you are the first to point this out, Sally, congratulations!

I assume Circle Brand Boots is on the list?  Connections both with OAM,
Leo, and WE (boot tracks around transformer that was sabotaged).

Broken Circle Stable where Laura kept her horse.

-Rich Haller

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In article <1992Sep15.183246.23131@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>,
miata@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (steve.bruun) wrote:
> > On the subject of heavenly music, does anyone share my hypothesis that the
> > shadowy shape which floated behind the red curtains during the 1003 dream
> > sequence has now been revealed to have been an angel?

I have to vote for Waldo.

-Rich

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Does anybody know if the second season of Twin Peaks is available on
video in Canada. My video store has only the first season (Episode 1001
to Episode 1007).

Also, they don't have the Pilot Episode (1000). Can anyone tell me what
that episode was about.

               Thanks for your replies



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In article <OLE_P.1.716635811@gribb.hsr.no>, OLE_P@gribb.hsr.no (Dahl, Ole Petter       7-95) writes:
> > One simple question : I wonder who the murder really was ??

That may sound like an obvious question....I have an even more obvious one,
How was Laura Palmer killed? The script,if I recall correctly, sdaid she
died of multiple small cuts. But if so, they didn't show on the body or what6
we saw of it in the plastic and in the morgue. To say she died of multiple
small cuts, would be to say that she bled to death. If so, why was there not
a HUGE amount of blood in the train where the murder was done? There was a
fairly small stain, but not the amount there would have been expected if a
person's arterial system had been emptied.

For that matter, exactly what was the cause of death of Teresa Banks? In FWWM
she looked as if she had been drowned. But one assumes that LeBOB bashed
her, whilehe was bashing the TV. Yet the body didn't show any bashing.

Answers, anyone?

Lou



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All the recent talk in alt.tv.northern-exp comparing TP and NX reminded
me of this fiction posted about 6 months ago.

NX fans will appreciate it more if they know who Albert in TP is.
TP fans will appreciate it more if they know something about NX characters.

Anyway, here it is:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: ceblair@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Charles Blair)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv
Subject: NEXP: A Future Episode
Date: 28 Feb 92 16:13:42 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 477


             [This is a synthesis of Northern Exposure and Twin Peaks.
             The more you know about both programs, the better.  

                 An early version of the first half of it was posted
             several months ago.
 
                 Thanks to Matt Brockman, Victor Kan, and thmartin for
             encouraging remarks and suggestions.

             Charles Blair]
**********************************************************************

   A man in a suit and tie with a crewcut arrives in Joel's
office, accompanied by two subordinates wearing dark glasses.

   ``Where's Fleischman?''

   Marilyn holds out a card, ``You are number six.''

   The newcomer ignores the card.  ``Sweetheart, I am not a number,
I am a free man.  You tell your doctor that he has something more
important than handing out leaflets on how to avoid heatstroke, and
that if he isn't out here in...''

   While he has been talking a man has come in holding card number 5.
Like many other Cicely residents, he is not particularly belligerent,
but he is big.

  ``It should be another 40 minutes, Steve,'' Marilyn says.

  The newcomer stalks out.
*********************************************************************

   Chris is in the mood for theoretical physics today.

   ``Kant liked to talk about a priori, universal truths.  He considered
geometry a good example, but nothing seems safe in our non-Euclidean
world.  Is the gravitational constant really a constant?  Is---''

   The newcomer [his name is Albert, but we don't learn that for a
while]  storms in.

  ``One universal truth, pal.  A town may not have a city hall, it
may not have a police station, but such are the wonders of electromagnetic
radiation that there is always some mush-head ready and able to pass
on his notion of enlightment to a captive audience...''

   [ As Albert began his harangue, Chris had grabbed the nearest record
(which happened to be ``Pennsylvania 6-5000'') and put it on.  
However he made a mistake with the microphone, and Albert's thoughts
are being carried all over town.  We have a series of shots of people
staring at each other in Dr Fleischman's office, Ruthanne's store,
etc as Albert continues. ]

   ``I guess this is a case of a government as good as its people.
I saw some derelict in a blue hat imitating Bigfoot on my way into
this excuse for a town, and it's been downhill from there.  I have
never seen such a collection of lowlifes except on the back of a record
jacket.'' 

[ Final shot in Holling's bar with Albert coming through loud and clear] 

   ``Welcome to Cicely!  Mean temperature, 10.  Mean IQ, the same,
maybe a little higher if you include the bears...''

   Ed says ``That's what Cicely needs--- a bureau of tourism.'' as
Maurice dashes out.
********************************************************************

   Chris has finally realized his mistake with the microphone.  The
record is now being broadcast.  It consists of swing music, punctuated
by the single line ``Pennsylvania 6-5000'' every once in a while.

   Albert asks, ``What does this village have in the way of an authority
figure?  I saw a moose on the sidewalk.  Maybe he's the chairman
of the  Planning Commission. [deep voice]  Watch me pull a rabbit out
of a hat.''  

   Chris points at Maurice, who has just come in, followed by Ed.

   ``I can see it must really hurt you to be here.  I'm sure there's
a real good reason, and I just can't wait to hear what it is.''

   ``Forensic pathology.  Got that? F-o-r-e-n-s...''

   ``Doesn't that mean you're a high-class undertaker?''

   ``Somebody dies here.  You send fingerprints by dogsled and we
finally learn that you've got somebody we've wanted for an assortment
of attempted murders and drug deals.  Then we get organs with enough
tarantula venom for three people.  It might be worth taking a look
at the body.''

   ``I don't think we can help you.''

   ``Can you say court order, boys and girls?  C-o-u-r...''

   ``I'm sorry, we didn't keep the ashes.  Around here, we don't 
believe in urns.''

    Albert stares at Maurice.

   ``I know the concept of homicide investigation is beyond most 
backwater burgs.  I was doing an autopsy in one hick town when they
decided it was time for the funeral, but your pre-emptive strike has
them beat.''

   Chris says, ``This conversation is getting a little heavy.  Why
don't we all grab a bite and re-orient ourselves?''

   Everyone else ignores him, and Chris leaves.

   Albert says.  ``Maybe this is a town of immortals.  Nobody dies,
so you don't need a morgue.''

   ``We have a meat freezer, but it was the middle of deer season.''

   ``A meat freezer?  I see the spirit of Albert Packer lives on.''

   [Chris has come back with a sandwich]

   ``This place would fascinate an anthropologist, but I am a simple
law enforcement officer, and I have to get back to the real world.''

    ``You may have the pleasure of our company a bit longer,''
Chris says.  ``Did you drive here in a blue van?''

    ``That's just great.  We spend ninety minutes trying to get
straight answers out of the village elders, and already the yokels
have stripped our van.''

    Maurice has been looking out the window.  He is amused. ``People
don't steal hubcaps in Cicely.  Nobody's touched your van.  And nobody's
going to for a while, either.''

    Albert looks out the window.  An igloo has been built around the van.

    Before Albert can say anything Maurice continues, ``I assure you
I had nothing to do with this.  It would be the farthest thing from
my mind to delay your departure.''

    He looks at Albert's helpers.  ``Let me see if I can get you boys
some tools.''  The helpers look at Albert.  He shrugs, and they leave
with Maurice.  From time to time for the rest of the episode, we see
them working with pickaxes in the background.

   By now, ``Pennsylvania 6-5000'' has gone through about its 20th
chorus.  The phone rings.  Chris answers, ``I know.  We're a little
off our regular programming today.  I'm just going to put on something
else.''  

   Chris is reaching for the phonograph, when an attractive woman
comes in, whom some long-time viewers will recognize.  ``Really, there
should be a better sign for US 1.''

   Albert says, ``Why bother? Nobody in this town can read.''

   Chris recognizes her instantly.  He forgets the phonograph and
makes gasping noises.  He opens a drawer, grabs a piece of paper,
and hands it to the lady.

   She reads, ``I thought I would never see you again.''

   Chris hands her another note. ``G. K. Chesterton questioned whether
an arbitrary system of grunts and squeals could denote all the mysteries
of memory and all the agonies of desire.''

   The lady smiles at Chris.  She glances at Albert.  ``Somebody can
certainly write.''  She reads another note, and says to Chris.  ``I
can see this is pretty intense for you.  I'd be happy to join you
for lunch.'' As she and Chris leave together, Albert pantomines playing
a violin (which looks strange with the record still going),
while Ed watches impassively.

   The record has gotten to the 30th chorus of ``Pennsylvania 6-5000.''
The phone rings.  Albert leans over the desk and snatches it.  ``No,
I'm not.'' Looks at Ed. ``Are you Chris?''  Ed shakes his head.  Back
to the phone: ``Well, would you rather have a marathon of `Louie,
Louie'?'' Slams down the phone.  It rings again immediately.

   Albert grabs the phone.  ``If you don't like it, why don't you
watch Sesame Street?''  Slam.  Phone rings again.

   Albert sits behind the desk and studies the equipment for a minute.
He takes off the record and switches on the microphone.

   ``Your regularly scheduled drivel has been cancelled due to hormonal
imbalance.  The music you have been listening to is `Pennsylvania
6-5000.' That wasn't too hard to figure out, was it?''

   As Albert talks he is browsing the record collection.  

   ``Apparently Glenn Miller isn't appreciated here.  Even in the
civilized world, big band music doesn't get the attention
it deserves.  The last person I met who really understood it was a
serial killer, one of whose victims was his daughter.''

   ``Anyway, I've found a Frank Zappa number which has a lot
to say about you, me, and us.''

   Albert puts on a selection from Freak Out (1966):

                  You're probably wondering
                       Why I'm here,
                   And so am I!  So am I!
                 Just as much as you wonder,
                 'Bout me bein' in this place
                That's just how much I marvel
                At the lameness on your face
                        ...

   As Albert switches off the microphone, Ed says ``A stranger comes
to town, tearing the lid off all its dark secrets.  Clint Eastwood
in  `High Plains Drifter.'  The Man With No Name.''

   ``I have a name.  Albert A-l-b-e-r-t Rosenfield R-o-s-e-n-f-i-e-l-d.''

   ``I'm Ed E-d ---''

   ``Of course, of course.''

   ``Do you think the second gunman was on the grassy knoll?  Or was
he in another room of the Schoolbook Depository?''

   ``I don't know.  I was supposed to be on the panel that looked
at the X-rays for the House Committee, but Bill Webster got cold feet.
He was afraid I wouldn't get along well with others.''

   ``Oh.''
**********************************************************************

   Maurice and Ed are at the bar with Holling.  Maurice is in a good
mood. Through the window, we can see Albert's helpers hard at work.

   ``I don't approve of vandalism, you understand, but its amazing
how  much a determined, public-spirited, group of people can accomplish
in a short time.''  

   The radio has just finished the 7 Dwarves Song (``Hi-ho, hi-ho,
it's off to work...'') and Albert comes back on the air.  ``I'm running
low on juvenile entertainment.  The phone has been pretty quiet here.
Maybe someone out there could try using his or her paws to lift the
receiver, then punch numbers with your snout...''

   Holling says to Maurice, ``Are you sure it's a good idea to let him 
abuse the public that way?''

   ``We don't have much choice.'' Maurice points out Chris writing
notes for his guest at a nearby table.

  ``That's an interesting ice sculpture they're making,'' She says.
Chris scribbles some more.  ``I saw somebody who was really good at 
pantomine with a circus about a month ago.'' 

    We hear Albert take a phone call.  A familiar voice:  ``You called
me a DERELICT?  Do you want to DIE?''

  ``We all have to go sometime, pal. I just hope you're not going
to stomp me to death.''  Albert hangs up.

   ``Do you want to go on the air again?'' Maurice asks.  Holling
shakes his head.  ``We're stuck with what's-his-name while nature
takes its course.'' 

   ``His name is Albert,'' Ed says. ``A-l-b-e-r---''  Maurice and
Holling glower at Ed, and he shuts up.

   Shelley comes up.  ``Well, I think he's fun.  Things have been
too quiet around here.''

   ``He's not funny,'' Holling insists.

   Albert continues from the radio, ``I understand the local bistro
is called The Brick.  I'm not sure if the name refers to the food
or the customers.''

   Shelley giggles.  Holling scowls.  Maurice shrugs and grins.

   ``This is your captive commentator, coming to you on station
K-something-something-something, on the minefield Communications Network.''

   Maurice bangs the table with his fist.  Holling still scowling.
Shelley laughs out loud.  Ed eats.
*********************************************************************

   Albert has just finished playing a musical version of ``Jack and the
Beanstalk,'' with an annoying singsong chorus of ``FEE FI FO FUM.''
His phone rings.

   We cut to a shot of Joel in his office holding a phone.  ``You think
you're a radio host?  We're the host and you're the parasite!''  
He hangs up.

   Back to Albert at the station.  ``Parasite?  Three whole syllables!
I think I've had the privilege of talking to this town's answer to
Albert Schweitzer.  

   Listen, pal.  I wasn't impressed with the job you did on those organs,
but, for your own good, maybe you should go into my line of work.  Just
remember, cadavers don't file malpractice suits.''
***********************************************************************

   Back at The Brick, Chris is still writing notes for his companion.
``No, that's not what Jung meant,'' she says.  ``There's a long discus-
sion in his correspondence with von Zahnd.''

   Chris writes more.  Shelley brings a tray.  ``It's nice to see some
new people,'' she says.  She sees Holling coming over with a bottle
and wanders to Ed's table.

   ``Ed, don't you ever find things get boring?''  Shelley is talking
noticeably louder than usual.

   ``You mean like in MARTY?  Ernest Borgnine's greatest performance?''

    Shelley is puzzled.  ``I guess so.''

    Ed thinks for a minute.  ``No.''

    At the other table, Holling says to Chris' guest (also noticeably
louder than usual), ``It's nice to have somebody who appreciates our 
place.  Some people start taking it for granted.''

    Chris nods to Holling in a friendly way, but it is clear he is 
anxious to get back to writing.  As he starts again, his guest asks
``You are going to draw me a map of US 1, aren't you?''

   Chris' pencil breaks.  His companion cries out and puts a
hand to her eye.
**************************************************************

    Joel's office.  He gently removes the woman's hand and looks
at the eye as Chris watches.  

   ``It's not really dangerous, but I think it should be
treated right away.  I haven't had to deal with embedded
foreign bodies often, but I'm sure I can---''

   Joel stops as he notices something through his window.

   ``Wait a minute!  You're in luck!  Just hold on a second...''

   An Optomobile trailer which Chris remembers very well has
just pulled into the street.  Joel has rushed outside to summon
the optometrist, whom Chris also remembers very well.  The
lady is holding her eye, and not paying any attention to Chris.

   Chris does not like the idea of talking (or writing) his
way out of this situation.  He sidles out of the room,
out the back door into an alley.

   Chris had been quiet as he left the office.  He sees a bear
in the alley.  The bear has its back to Chris and
is treading slowly down the alley on all fours.  Chris is
VERY quiet as he moves towards the other end of the alley.
He notices that one of the footprints left by the bear has
a missing toe.

   Chris gets to the end of the alley and dashes across the street to
The Brick.  Only Holling and Shelley are inside, cleaning at
opposite ends of the bar, ignoring each other.

    Chris shouts ``HOLLING!''  All three are astonished that
his voice has returned.  ``I think it's Jesse!''
**************************************************************

   The bear is standing on two legs, awkwardly manipulating a
doorknob.  It manages to go in what turns out to be a back
entrance to the radio station.

   Still on two legs, the bear goes into the broadcast room,
where Albert is leafing through a stack of books.  The bear
makes growling noises.  Albert looks at the bear.  The bear
looks at Albert.  It waves its paws and growls again.

    Albert lays a pistol on the desk.  ``This is a Walther
PPK.  It is very good for accuracy, but not powerful.  If
you were a real bear, I would be worried.  But you're not,
so I'm not.''

    Ed takes off his bear head and smiles.

    ``Did you really think you were going to scare me away?''
Albert asks.  ``Was this your idea of a good deed?''

   ``No, I was doing a different good deed.''  Albert looks
puzzled.  ``You really don't want to know.''

    ``No, I guess I don't.''  Albert goes back to the stack
of books.
************************************************************

   Holling in the alley, clutching a rifle, looking at the 
footprints.  He is puzzled.

   ``Don't worry, hon,'' Shelley says, her arm around his waist.
``You'll get Jesse sometime.''
**************************************************************

   Albert has run out of records.  ``I see that my predecessor reads
a lot of Jung.  I have to admit this place is ideal for doing research
on the collective unconcious.''

   Albert takes a phone call.  The voice on the other end is recognizable
to watchers of another program.

  ``ALBERT, I WAS WONDERING WHAT HAD HAPPENED TO YOU.''

  ``It's a long story, Gor---''

  ``WE NEED YOU RIGHT AWAY.''

  ``We were vandalized and I'm not sure how long it's going to take.''

  ``COOP'S BEEN ACTING VERY STRANGELY AND HAS JUST DISAPPEARED.  I
  THINK HE'S ABDUCTED SHELLEY THE WAITRESS.''

   Shot of Shelley and Holling in The Brick, arms around each other.
Shelley is puzzled.  ``I haven't been abducted.  I'm right here.''
Holling makes a reassuring noise.

   Back to Albert at the station.  ``WE'RE GOING TO FLY YOU BACK.''

   At these words, the self-assured Albert we all know and love starts
changing. ``Gordon, you know I don't fly.''

   Another scene of Shelley and Holling, with the conversation coming
through on the radio.  ``WE'RE HAVING A BUSH PILOT GET YOU BACK TO
JUNEAU, THEN YOU'LL BE ON THE RED-EYE SPECIAL TO SEATTLE, WITH A
CHOPPER TO TWIN PEAKS.

   THIS IS IMPORTANT, ALBERT.  WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE WOMAN I LOVE.''

   The line goes dead, as Holling looks at Shelley with some concern.

   Back at the station, Albert is saying ``I don't fly'' to himself
as firmly as possible.  Maggie comes in, slamming the door.

   ``Welcome to amateur hour,'' she says.  ``I've known trees that main-
tained a higher level of discourse.
 
   Did you know there's a composition consisting of one minute thirty-three
seconds of complete silence?  We would have been better off with a marathon
performance of that!

   Anyway, that's academic now.  I'm your pilot.''

   Albert turns green.

   ``Don't tell me you're sexist.  I'm perfectly qualified.  It's been
months since the last time I ditched.''

   Greener.

   ``And after that happened, your buddy Fleischman fixed the engine, so
it's good as new!''

   Albert does not resist as Maggie grabs his tie and hauls him out of
his chair.
***********************************************************************

   What seems like the whole town has gathered at the airstrip for Albert's
departure, complete with appropriate music.  Many people have signs:

   Joel --- HAPPY LANDINGS, ALBERT

   Maurice --- WE'LL MISS YOU.  PLEASE TRY TO MISS US

   Ed --- ROUND UP THE USUAL SUSPECTS

   The plane takes off.  Maggie delights the townspeople by turning her
plane upside-down and back.  We do not get a shot of Albert's reaction.

   What we do get is a shot of Albert's assistants, almost finished with
their task.  They look up at the inverted plane and give cheerful waves
as the screen goes black.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I lived in my head mostly."                | Jim Pellmann (jgp@rational.com)
"That's not a bad neighborhood."            | RATIONAL
"There were some pretty strange neighbors." | Santa Clara, California

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Perhaps "Fire walk with me" [as uttered by Laura to Harold] is BOB actually
saying, "I want your soul".  Meaning BOB wants to be with the soul or he would
like to take it to the Black Lodge.  I seem to remember, having only seen the
movie once, that when BOB takes Windom's soul that some sort of fire sprouts
from Windom's head.  Or was it just smoke??

-John

John Schubert
schubert@united.berkeley.edu

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In article <BunsBx.J8v@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, ash50842@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Dres) writes:
(Questions about visitors to Teresa's trailer)

> >    So what's the deal?  Who are the visitors?
> >    I would say that the ice-pack woman is one of the visitors, stopping in to
> > see the trailer.  But why did she come in?  What was the whole point of that
> > sequence?
> > 
> > THEORY:  Well I think perhaps the people that have been visiting were from the
> > lodges.  Both of them.  They were looking for the ring, which no one found
> > because it was under the Deputy's trailer.  The ice-pack lady is one of them,
> > from the White Lodge, because she gives Desmond a (helpful?) vision.

I think that there may be some truth to this -- at least in terms of the
context in which the ice bag lady appears.  When she comes in, we here that
buzzing noise associated with electricity (the way that people from the lodges,
time travellers or whoever, travel) and then HD Stanton's character says
something about how he's travelled a lot and doesn't want to travel anymore. 
Like maybe they were travellers together.

I was struck by the discoloration of the ice bag lady's skin -- it's darkened,
she looks like she been scorched or something (by electricity?  fire?).  Makes
me think of Annie's last name:  BLACK-BURN.  Any significance to that?  Perhaps
an indication that Annie (and the ice bag lady?) have been touched by the Black
Lodge?

Holly
> > 
> > -Dres
> > 

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I just found this group, so pardon if this is an old Q:

What is the story with "On The Air"? I loved it. Any chance of it returning,  
perhaps as a mid-season replacement, or is it history?

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I just started readind here, so...

I read here where FWWM was originally 3:40 long, and it might be released on  
video in its full length. Can someone clarify this for me?

Thanx, all.

Bryan

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Glastonbury is a small town in Somerset England. It is believed to be the 
site of Britain's first Christian community. Some tidbits about 
Glastonbury gleaned from the many tales of King Arthur:
 
1. Lancelot's retreat
2. Somehow associated with the Grail
3. The burial site of Arthur (Cooper?)
4. Derived from the celtic word Glastonia meaning "blue-green"
5. The highest hill in Glastonbury is the Tor, which many folk beliefs 
claim is hollow and is an entry to the underworld or otherworld (The 
Lodges?).
6. Guenevere (Annie?) was kidnapped by King Melwas (Windom Earle?) and 
kept in a stronhold in Glastonbury (The Lodges?), later to be rescued by 
Arthur (Cooper?).

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In article <KWH.92Sep16095849@GLOBE.EDRC.CMU.EDU> kwh@CS.CMU.EDU (Kevin Hartmann) writes:
> >
> >
> >FORMICA (fawr-MIGH'kuh) A trademark for any of various high-pressure 
> >laminated plastic sheets of melamine and phenolic materials 
> >used esp. for chemical and heat-resistant surfaces.
> >
> >Heat-resistant!?!?!  Firewalk (sic) with me on my formica table.
> >
> >carpe diem,
> >Kevin

 What about my idea that the ring is also made of formica? If formica is heat
 resistant, then the ring resists fire. Bob = fire, who ever wears the ring
 is protected from Bob's possesion.

 -=*George*=-


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In article <198lf0INNl9m@agate.berkeley.edu> schubert@capri.berkeley.edu.UUCP (John Schubert) writes:
> >Perhaps "Fire walk with me" [as uttered by Laura to Harold] is BOB actually
> >saying, "I want your soul".  Meaning BOB wants to be with the soul or he would
> >like to take it to the Black Lodge.  I seem to remember, having only seen the
> >movie once, that when BOB takes Windom's soul that some sort of fire sprouts
>from Windom's head.  Or was it just smoke??
> >
> >-John
> >
> >John Schubert
> >schubert@united.berkeley.edu

 I think "Fire, walk with me" would have been/is best described in the cut
 portions of the movie. There is a scene where a ring of fire appears in the
 red room above the convenience store on the wall, Bob looks at LMFAP and
 says "Fire, walk with me" - they both walk through the ring of fire and enter
 the waiting room in the lodge. Basically its their invitation to "Home" that
 they say to someone.

 -=*George*=-


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From Summer Storm:

George, did I read correctly that you think Mrs. Tremond/Chalfont (sp?)
is one of the good guys? I guess that by steering Donna to Harold,
she helps solve the crime, but that ultimately leads to Annie and Coop
ending up in the lodge, and bashed in the face. Also, the picture that
she gives to Laura in FWWM doesn't exactly lead to pleasant dreams.

You may be right, she may be a good entity, because... the road to hell
(the black lodge) may be paved w/good intentions.

Just a thought.

------ss</pre>
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Yes, more wild speculation.

Blue rose.  There are such things.  I have one in my garden.  Now
actually, it's not really blue (although it's classified as a 
Blue Rose by the American Rose Society), it's more of a mauve
color, but it's common name is Silver Moon.

There are a number of blue roses listed, many of which involve the
word "moon" in the common name.

Now, in the original series, one of the more irritating aspects
was the seemingly continuity error of the moon shots.  First a 
full moon, then a quarter moon, etc., etc.

Now, some random thoughts.

Speculation in this group has been that Lynch is aware of this
group and some of the theories.  We all went way off the deep-end
listening to things backwards, spelling things backwards, etc. to 
try and find clues.  I think "garmonbozia" is Lynch's bone to us.

I thought all along that the way the word was pronounced was odd.
I don't, however, buy the "I is Windom Earle" but I might possibly
agree with "Eyes...." of something.  


As for the ring and the necklace, could there be some significance
to the fact that they are metal.  The fact that the table was
formica (not metal) with chrome (metal) seems somehow significant.

As for doppelgangers....  Laura/Maddy.  Bob/Leland.  Deer Meadow/
Twin Peaks.  It seems significant to note the people that do not
have an equal/opposite.  Josie, for one.  Is, perhaps, Judy the 
equal/opposite of Josie.

As for creamed corn/cocaine and addictions.  Laura was on again 
and off again the cocaine.  She used it to stay numb.  I think the
lodge people do the same.  They partake and then they don't.  On 
and off the wagon so to speak.  The question is why.

And I'm not sure time runs backward.  I think time runs in a circle.
I think events depend on where you are in the circle.

And why did Le/Bob wrap both Teresa and Laura in plastic. It seems 
odd that he removed the metal from them (at least the metal he knew
about...I think he wasn't aware Laura had the ring) and put them in 
plastic.

And what about the hooded guy.  I think events were dependent somehow
on his absence.  (BTW, I think the hooded guy is connected to the
major, much as the giant is connected to Coop.)

And just where were the owls?  Who didn't we see?  So, we saw monkeys
and dogs instead.  Hmmm.  

Saturday night just hasn't been the same since Twin Peaks was cancelled.

Connie

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In article <lbch98INN5aq@news.bbn.com>, ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria) wrote:
> > 
> > In article <1992Sep15.042511.27712@cco.caltech.edu> UnoJ writes:
> > 
> >    Concluding remarks: I have noticed that most people who griped
> >    most vociferously about the movie had a whole set of expectations
> >    before they entered the theater.
> > 
> > I think this is right.  I went into the theater not expecting anything
> > in particular (other than the last 7 days of Laura's life) and maybe
> > even expecting not to like the film, given the various negative
> > reviews and word of mouth.  Instead, I found a movie that engrossed me
> > from start to end and which cast a whole new light on events I thought
> > I knew.

I also agree. My experience of the first viewing was mixed.  I had both
expectations and questions which got in the way of letting the film just
take hold.  Despite all that I was surprised by how much it grabbed me. 
The first part is just plain funny, specially if you don't get hung up on
playing dectective and trying to notice every last detail of the whoo whoo
stuff.  The second time I was able to relax and let the movie tell it's own
story.

I am particularly angry with the critics who clearly did not give this film
a chance.  They didn't see FWWM, they saw something filtered through their
preconceptions.  Course they are usually full of it anyway, why should I be
surprised?

-Rich Haller

-Rich Haller

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In article <1992Sep15.042511.27712@cco.caltech.edu>, UnoJ wrote:
> > 
> > Now now.. I heartily disagree here. The first half (? I thought it was
> > a little longer than that) was brilliant. The Teresa Banks thread may
> > (put a thick underline on that "may") have shed little light on the
> > plot as whole, but it had nice little tidbits of humor and great
> > Lynchian filmmaking. And besides, I think it did advance the plot.
> > The ring for instance: Teresa had it; it disappears for a while
> > and then misteriously reappears under the Chalfont's trailer. 
> > The convenience room scene. Brr.... the whole thing was a cornucopia
> > of wonders for TP theorists and lovers alike.

I agree (except on length; the first part is about 35 mins and the whole
film is 2hrs 9 mins).  The first part is:
1. funny all by itself
2. introduces and sets up the ring, an important (and new element)
3. gives us some more clues about TP metaphysics
4. has some brilliant scenes.

>> > >

> > I disagree again. This is a part of the movie I would have shortened.
> > Lynch obviously knew that we were out there ready to scream foul
> > at every mistake he would have made (and who cares it they are little
> > and inconsequential anyway), therefore there were token inclusions
> > from Harold Smith to Peggy Lipton's mini appearance. I would have 
> > shortened some of Laura's scenes too. Especially the one in the
> > "pink room." Not because I'm a staunch puritan, mind you, but because
> > I got the point in five seconds. Yet it did last (including the scene
> > at the Roadhouse) in excess of ten minutes. 
> > 
>> > >
>> > >The end result -- a slimmer, more focused film that could almost stand on
>> > >its own.  Anyone else want to come forward with their "improvements" to
>> > >FWWM?
>> > >
> > You seem to have preferred the "let's really tie all those little
> > threads together" approach. The way it was was just fine for me
> > thank you. Sure, I would have made minor changes here and there,
> > but I was satisfied. It opened up another set of totally unexpected
> > questions and discussion possibilities. Just what the show at
> > its best was all about.
> > 
> > Concluding remarks: I have noticed that most people who griped
> > most vociferously about the movie had a whole set of expectations
> > before they entered the theater. I'm not trying to say that it's
> > a bad thing, I just trying to say that rarely have I liked a 
> > movie where I expected it to be exactly the way I envisioned it.
> > When I walked in I just had this in mind: "Mr. Lynch, wash the
> > TP world and mystery over me again...make me gasp in disbelief"
> > And for me, that happened many a time throughout both my viewings.
> > 
> > 
> >     UnoJ

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bpencek@nevada.edu (Bruce Pencek) writes:

> > In article <10340076@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM> brian@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Wood
>> > >The spirits that are in the wood communicate via wind.  Here are some
>> > >supporting arguments:
>> > > 
>> > >  1. In the movie, the camera pans down the telephone/power pole with
>> > >     the 6 on it as we hear the Indian whooping noise, reinforcing the
>> > >     concept that's pretty much been pounded into us that spirits are
>> > >     in the wood. (Remember Hawk's comment to the Log Lady that "there
>> > >     are a lot of spirits in the wood, aren't there?" from season one).
>> > >
>> > >  2. In season one, Lucy explains that a call sounds like long distance
>> > >     because it has that whooshing sound, like wind blowing through the
>> > >     trees.
>> > >
>> > >  3. We are given fairly frequent interludes of blowing trees.  That
>> > >     imagery is not insignificant.
>> > >
> > 
> > 
> > So is "great went" really "great wind," spoken in French-CAnadian? :-)
> > 
> > 
>> > >The new reference to electricity has me a little perplexed, but it could
>> > >be that the spirits 'electricity' is the wind.
>> > >
>> > >I am strongly reminded of the Indian legends of the four forces of nature:
>> > >Earth, Wind, Fire and Water.  We have seen constant references in the
>> > >series to wind, fire and water, but I can't really think of any related
>> > >to Earth. (Maybe "Save the Pine Weasel").  Any thoughts?
>> > >
> > 
> > Don't remember the classical four elements: the same ones, save that
> > it's (no-motion-indicated) air.  In any case, caves are in the earth, or
> > a mixture of earth, air, and water, made visible through fire (or electricity
> > 
> > -- 
> > Bruce Pencek                     bpencek@nevada.edu
> > Political Science Dept           bpencek@nevada2.bitnet
> > University of Nevada, Las Vegas  (702) 739-3307
> > "Just because I work at UNLV, it doesn't mean I support basketball."

Corn is a symbol for Earth and life in some Native American lore.

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In article <1992Sep15.042511.27712@cco.caltech.edu>, UnoJ wrote:
> > 
> > In article <15441@umd5.umd.edu> jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog
> > here...) writes:
>> > >that's it.  All that stuff involving the FBI investigation really belonged
>> > >in a completely separate movie.  In fact, I'd love to see it explored to
>> > >that depth.  Just not here.
> > 
> > Now now.. I heartily disagree here. The first half (? I thought it was
> > a little longer than that) was brilliant. The Teresa Banks thread may
> > (put a thick underline on that "may") have shed little light on the
> > plot as whole, but it had nice little tidbits of humor and great
> > Lynchian filmmaking. And besides, I think it did advance the plot.
> > The ring for instance: Teresa had it; it disappears for a while
> > and then misteriously reappears under the Chalfont's trailer. 
> > The convenience room scene. Brr.... the whole thing was a cornucopia
> > of wonders for TP theorists and lovers alike.

I agree (except on length; the first part is about 35 mins and the whole
film is 2hrs 9 mins).  The first part is:
1. funny all by itself
2. introduces and sets up the ring, an important (and new element)
3. gives us some more clues about TP metaphysics
4. has some brilliant scenes.

>> > >
>> > >As for additions, I'd add a Meals On Wheels run, simply to introduce Harold
>> > >Smith and the Tremonds.  Otherwise they seem to just come out of nowhere.

So what? The Tremonds sure come out of the air to Laura. You are looking at
it from the point of view of someone who has seen TP. Such a person already
knows who they are and doesn't need any background, for someone who
doesn't, they don't lose anything important by not knowing the connection
with MOW and take it for what it is.  Harold Smith is more problematic, but
I'll bet people who know nothing about him in TP, don't feel the need to
know more about him in FWWM. He is a person that Laura entrusts her diary
to and reveals some info about BOB. All that is lost is that he can't go
out the door which gives additional meaning to the end of the scene, but
isn't crucial. 

>> > >At the end, I'd put in at least one scene to make it clear that Laura knows
>> > >she is going to die -- maybe she writes that last diary entry and mails it
>> > >to Harold.  Make the thematic shape of the movie clearer that way.
> > 
> > I disagree again. This is a part of the movie I would have shortened.
> > Lynch obviously knew that we were out there ready to scream foul
> > at every mistake he would have made (and who cares it they are little
> > and inconsequential anyway), therefore there were token inclusions
> > from Harold Smith to Peggy Lipton's mini appearance. I would have 

Once again, I think criticism of token appearances is missplaced.  The key
element in the MOW scene is the introduction of the picture.  Why not do it
via MOW rather than something else?

> > shortened some of Laura's scenes too. Especially the one in the
> > "pink room." Not because I'm a staunch puritan, mind you, but because
> > I got the point in five seconds. Yet it did last (including the scene
> > at the Roadhouse) in excess of ten minutes. 

The major problem they faced was having to cut something like a hour from
what they wanted to screen.  Otherwise we would have seen a lot more
mini-appearances.  I felt the problem with losing all that stuff was, for a
TP viewer, the feeling that no one lived in TP except High School students
and people closely connected to Laura Palmer.  In particular, the absence
of Donna's family seems somewhat strained, but one can defend it
artistically, I think, as a device to focus on Laura and her isolation.

As far as Laura's scenes go, if you think the Pink Room scene was too long,
you should talk to the crew. They had to listen to that music for 14 hours
according to the cinematographer Ron Garcia and at top volume. 'Bout drove
them crazy.  I wouldn't have minded it being shorter, but didn't mind it
being as long as it was. Laura's line "chug a lug, Donna" was delivered
perfectly and was one of many examples of the fanatastic job Sheryl Lee did
displaying the various facets/personalities of Laura Palmer. She deserves a
nomination at least for her performance, but probably won't get it.

What I would be tempted to lose is 'you killed Mike' unless someone comes
up with a better explanation than she is stoned and teasing Bobby.
>> >>The end result -- a slimmer, more focused film that could almost stand on
>> >>its own.  Anyone else want to come forward with their "improvements" to
>> >>FWWM?

> > You seem to have preferred the "let's really tie all those little
> > threads together" approach. The way it was was just fine for me
> > thank you. Sure, I would have made minor changes here and there,
> > but I was satisfied. It opened up another set of totally unexpected
> > questions and discussion possibilities. Just what the show at
> > its best was all about.
> > Concluding remarks: I have noticed that most people who griped
> > most vociferously about the movie had a whole set of expectations
> > before they entered the theater. I'm not trying to say that it's
> > a bad thing, I just trying to say that rarely have I liked a 
> > movie where I expected it to be exactly the way I envisioned it.
> > When I walked in I just had this in mind: "Mr. Lynch, wash the
> > TP world and mystery over me again...make me gasp in disbelief"
> > And for me, that happened many a time throughout both my viewings.

Hear, hear!  Engels reports (Film Threat) that they kind of liked the
challange of doing a prequel since everybody knew what the ending was going
to be. How then, do you create and maintain interest?  I think they did a
fantastic job. They may have underestimated the degree to which
preconceptions about how they "should" have handled the prequel were going
to keep some people from watching the film with open minds.

Oh well, it's your (I'm not speaking of UnoJ here; we agree) 6 or 7 bucks,
so bitch away, but you're cheating yourselves out of a wonderful
experience. Relax and enjoy the film for what it is and make your own
someday. Stop kibitzing.

-Rich Haller

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In article <92260.170454DCC117@psuvm.psu.edu>, <DCC117@psuvm.psu.edu>
wrote:
> > 
> > I was just thinking about this phrase.... sounds like "fell asleep", leading
> > to some kind of sleep - victim correlation. Or perhaps life in a Lodge is in
> > some way a sleep-like state ( dreamlike? )
> > 
> > Anyone who's familiar with the Lovecraft mythos and, in particular, the

What about 'dweller on the threshold' (Hawk).  Lovecraft/Derleth wrote a
book 'Lurker on the Threshold', but is there anything in it that would shed
any light on the Lodge situation in general or the dweller in particular?

-Rich Haller

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In article <1992Sep16.161228.1@cubldr.colorado.edu>, crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu writes:
|> 
|> For that matter, exactly what was the cause of death of Teresa Banks? In FWWM
|> she looked as if she had been drowned. But one assumes that LeBOB bashed
|> her, whilehe was bashing the TV. Yet the body didn't show any bashing.
|> 
|> Answers, anyone?
|> 
|> Lou
|> 
Theresa Banks died of a crushed skull.  Kiefer states this during the autopsy.
We actually see Leland/Bob hitting her over the head several times with some
blunt object during the movie.

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1>t tried reversing the word Garmonbozia on my Sound Blaster Pro. While 
others have heard "I is Windom Earle" I distinctly heard "Is Windom 
Earle". We know that garmonbozia is pain and suffering. Therefore I 
propose the following:
 
Pain and suffering . . . is Windom Earle.
(Garmonbozia)            (Garmonbozia reversed - Lodge Speak)
 
Pain and suffering is Windom Earle                

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DCC117@psuvm.psu.edu writes:

> >I was just thinking about this phrase.... sounds like "fell asleep", leading
> >to some kind of sleep - victim correlation. Or perhaps life in a Lodge is in
> >some way a sleep-like state ( dreamlike? )

If we were playing Match Game, I'd say: Fell a _____ ... tree (which takes
us back to the wood theme).

Dictionary says:

     Fell [vt] : 1a: to cut, beat, or knock down
                 1b: kill
                  2: to sew (a seam) by folding one raw edge
                     under the other and sewing flat on the
                     wrong side

Both 1a and 1b seem appropriate for BOB.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I lived in my head mostly."                | Jim Pellmann (jgp@rational.com)
"That's not a bad neighborhood."            | RATIONAL
"There were some pretty strange neighbors." | Santa Clara, California

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In article <BuLD22.1rI@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca> you write:
> >goldberg@iastate.edu (Adam Goldberg) writes:
>> >> I thought The white horse meant someone drugged, not death.  I since have
>> >> been set straight, referring to a Lynch interview, that it is a pooka,
>> >> signifying death.
> >Then how come Mrs. Palmer saw the horse the night BEFORE Laura was killed.
> >Remember the next morning, Laura tells Leland to "stay away from me".
> >   

I think that the horse symbolizes the victims realization of who bob really
is (physical host). The only ones who can see his true face are the gifted(Laura)
or the damned(Laura and Maddy).
> >   
>> >> What happens if BOB does manage to spell out his entire name under
>> >> fingernails?  (He is spelling ROBERT, his proper name... per the
>> >> Euro-flick).  Does the placing of the "T" under Theresa Banks' fingernail
>> >> signify the END of a cycle and the "R" under Laura's fingernail signify a
>> >> new cycle beginning?
> >The order was T under Teresa's
> >              R under Laura's
> >              B under Ronette's (second episode of the second season?)
> >              O under Maddy's (seventh or eighth episode?)
> >I'm pretty sure that the B came before the O, so there doesn't seem
> >to be a pattern in the ordering of the letters.  If it was T-R-O-B,
> >then you could say R-O-B-E-R-(T-R-O-B)-E-R-T-....
> >can use the ordering of the letters t
> >  
What if BoB is spelling his name backwards by the sounds (phenetcally(sp?))
put the letters(sounds) in reverse order. O-B-R-T => obert. He only needs one more 
letter the 'R'.

Dan Boardman
boardman@jerry.sal.wisc.edu

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I missed the first few hundred posts after the movie came out.  Are you
serious?  Did someone post the uncut version of the movie?  If so, would
some kind soul tell me how to get a copy?  Be kind.  I've been reading
this newsgroup for a year and a half and this is my first post.  THANKS.



--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80

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In article <1992Sep17.115250.2668@pdn.paradyne.com> pitchon@paradyne.com (Howard Pitchon) writes:
>From Summer Storm:
> >
> >George, did I read correctly that you think Mrs. Tremond/Chalfont (sp?) 
> >is one of the good guys? I guess that by steering Donna to Harold, 
> >she helps solve the crime, but that ultimately leads to Annie and Coop 
> >ending up in the lodge, and bashed in the face. Also, the picture that 
> >she gives to Laura in FWWM doesn't exactly lead to pleasant dreams.
> >
> >You may be right, she may be a good entity, because... the road to hell 
> >(the black lodge) may be paved w/good intentions.
> >
> >Just a thought.  
> >
> >     ------ss



Well, I think just because Mrs. Tremond/Chalfont did not "outright"
help/save Laura does not prove she is part of the "evil" entities,
but tends to make it more likely that she is part of the "good"
entities. I always thought that the inhabitants of the White Lodge
could not "outright" come to the aide of any of the terrestrial TPers,
that they could not interfer beyond a certain point in their lives. I think
that like the GIANT the Tremonds could not tell Laura directly about
BOB being in Leland, nor could they prevent her death, but could provide
vague clues, hints which were up to Laura to decipher and to use. It
was up to Laura to choose her own path, they could not get too involved
in this. Laura had to deal with her own demons, and Laura had to
confront her "shadow-self" and had to deal with it on her own. I am
not sure that, even though the picture was errie, they probably gave it
to her to get a vision of the lodges and from there she had to decide
for her self.  Again, maybe the dream/vision was like Coop's dream,
it held the clues and thus the answers, and it was up to Laura to
find that out for herself, and to use it as she liked. 

Sally--any info. as to when the video version of FWWM will be coming out?
-- Video meliora proboque, deteriora sequor! ### Sally A. Wilson [Ovid's _Metaphorposes_] ### sally@mica.berkeley.edu Vita non est vivere sed valere vita est. ### P. Spud Peel [Martial] ### [A member of Babble since 87]

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I don't have any questions or answers, but rather, only a statement about my
viewing experience of TP:FWWM.

Here in College Station, the movie theatres are old, small, and dirty.  In the
theatre that I watched FWWM, they still have a lot of the things which you would
expect to find in an old theatre.  Seats that pop back.  Realistic speakers,
Curtain in front of the screen. Fifty five year old gum.  $4.75 a ticket.  The
thing that really impressed me were the curtains on the walls.  Not only were
they red, but the lights that the fire marshall requires the theatre to have on
during the movie created a room that reminded me very much of the Black Lodge.
It was a really strange feeling.  It was distracting at first, but after a 
while, I felt like I was in a room specially designed for this film.  It was
a really neat experience.  All I needed was some doughnuts and coffee...

BTW - I thought the movie was excellent.  Lynch did a hell of a job.

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