Season 2, Episode 01: May the Giant Be with You — September 30–October 05, 1990

In article <2799@jaytee.East.Sun.COM>, mario@theglove.Canada.Sun.COM (Mario Dorion - Sun Montreal) writes...

} In an interview with Rolling Stone, Kyle Maclachlan (agent Cooper)
} mentions that he had just renewed his Twin Peaks contract for the next
} 5 seasons. Five more seasons of Twin Peaks !?

Not necessarily. When a show is perceived to be a hit, the studio will
often negotiate a long-term contract with the star to ensure that they
"get him" at a relatively low salary. Just because he's been signed on
for five seasons doesn't mean the show will last that long.

-- "Diane, 9 AM. Preparing to board Flight 210. Commuter flight, 15 seater. Arriving in Spokane 10:15 AM. One meal: breakfast. Eggs, sausage, toast, jam, juice, and the usual coffee-scented hot water. What airlines do to coffee shouldn't happen to a dog." --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA) UUCP: ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian ARPA: boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM

In article <8481@milton.u.washington.edu> vampire@blake.u.washington.edu (Eric Howard) writes:
> >Has anyone else thought that owls may be important because there
> >is a rare species of owl that is threatening the whole logging
> >industry  in the pacific NW old growth forests?
> >
> >eric 

I guess the owls in Twin Peaks aren't too unhappy about the mill burning
down that was disturbing their woods.  I wonder if the owls and the
Evil thing in the Woods(tm) played any part in influencing Ben to plot
to burn the mill.  It is pretty funny to think about.  Owls 1, loggers 0
"Look we didn't care about Laura, we just wanted that damn mill burned down"
                     -- association of owls and evil things in the woods

Michael Kaye  horny@ucscb.ucsc.edu
"On the way out of the woods, I was nearly killed as an owl swooped
down out of nowhere"   --Laura

At this writing I've seen two people claiming that Cooper could not
have forgotten about Audrey's note, since he never saw it.
This is wrong!

At the end of the season finale, Cooper picks up the note that had
been slid under his door, and reads aloud, "To my special agent".
Now do you remember? :)  Cooper forgot Audrey's note.

"The little bitch                    Michael Kaye  horny@ucscb.ucsc.edu
Is awfully sorry
The little bitch
Drinks you up--
In this seed is death indeed"     -- poetry by BOB read by Laura

phillips@tegra.COM (Steve Phillips) writes:


|The second is spoken by BOB in response to Mike (notice that BOB
|shows up right after Mike recites his poem/incantation):

|    Catch you with my death bag
                       ^^^^^^^^^^
|    you may think I've gone insane
|    but I promise...
|    I will kill again!

The smiling bag?  And the smiling bag was the one Jacques Renault's
body was in.  Not sure of the connection, if one, but .....  Perhaps
Jacques was the next one killed by one who had killed before.

On Major Briggs' vision and Bobby's "touching" display of emotion:
Now, I don't believe Bobby murdered Laura, but I'm not opposed
to entertaining any possibility, so here's a thought on Bobby's
apparent wave of remorse for treating his father like an idiot.
Maybe Bobby was painfully frustrated by his father's blind
faith in his son. Maybe Bobby did murder Laura, and his look
of sorrow is because he knows his father's vision is wrong.

Here's another maybe . . . (again, I don't think I agree
with the theories that Laura-as-BOB beat up on Ronnette,
but lets go with that for a minute) maybe Laura did beat
the daylights out of Ronnette, and that's where all the
blood came from on Laura. Then she-as-BOB killed herself, somehow.
Bobby might have found her and in grief wrapped her in plastic
and dumped her in the river, knowing that the death would bring
out all of his seedy dealings and illegal behavior. Maybe he's just
hiding the evidence or the awful reminders of his unwholesome past.


--

An appeal to sample & post IBM sounds for one or both of the following
(both from Cooper):

"How...long...have...I...been...OUT??"

and/or

"Is that bag *smiling??*"

Thanks.

-- ================================================================= Delia Cioffi: -- University of Houston: cioffi@menudo.uh.edu -- Stanford University: cioffi@psych.stanford.edu

In article <87334@aerospace.AERO.ORG> huebner@sunpoison.UUCP (Robert E. Huebner) writes:
> >[about the AB- blood type problem...]
> >Although I agree it was probably a serious continuity error, there is an
> >out.  Blood can be typed on more variables than the simple A, B, +, -, etc.
> >I forget the exact number, but there are enough sub-types to make blood a
> >fairly unique indicator.  Maybe when Cooper said the blood didn't match
> >Jacque's, he was basing it on the sub-types as well.  (Probably not planned
> >that way, but it helps me sleep at night).

I doubt that it was a continuity error.  They really made a big deal
about the blood type in one episode last season.  If Lynch/Frost are
that forgetful then we might as well give up figuring anything out.

-- Scott Amspoker Basis International, Albuquerque, NM (505) 345-5232 unmvax.cs.unm.edu!bbx!bbxsda!scott

Excerpts from netnews.rec.arts.tv: 2-Oct-90 Twin Peaks:
Comments/questi.. Jim Pellmann@rutabaga.Ra (5255)

> > - Did everyone notice Mark Frost playing the TV reporter?

Not everyone, almost certainly, but I did.

> > - In Maddy's dream/vision, did she see blood or fire spreading on the carpet?
> >   Since they cut to a fireplace scene, I would assume it was fire.

I think it was a coffee stain.

> > - What is the significance of the boots found with the cocaine?  Remember when
> >   Leo told Bobby in the woods: "Leo needs a new pair of shoes."

Perhaps the smell of new shoes throws off dope-sniffing dogs?

> > - As pointed out here last week by David Tuttle, we have a serious continuity
> >   error with the AB negative blood type of the third man.  Cooper says it is
> >   neither Laura's, Ronette's, Leo's, nor Jacques', yet in episode 5 when they
> >   are searching Jacques' apartment, Cooper surmises and Doc Hayward confirms
> >   that Jacques' blood type is AB negative.  Could this be the one thing Cooper
> >   forgot (according to the Giant)?  I don't think so.

The thing Cooper forgot is almost certainly the note from Audrey
addressed to "My Secret Agent."  He was about to read it when the phone
rang, then a knock came at the door, and then he was shot.  It was lying
forgotten on the floor beside his bed at the end of Sunday's episode.

> > - When the Giant reappears, he says, "One person saw the third man.  Three
> >   have seen him, yes.  But not his body.  One only, known to you, ready to
> >   talk." It seems clear this is Ronette.  But if she does know who the third
> >   man is, why does her (very disturbing) dream/memory/vision show the same man
> >   (Killer Bob?) as in Cooper's dream, and Sarah's vision?  Why wouldn't she
> >   "see" the real identity of the third man?

Remember, we're still not sure if the concept of a "real identity" even
applies to BOB.

> > And for that matter, was she
> >   reliving the events in the railroad car?  What were the flashes of light?
> >   What was the image of Killer Bob running through a doorway (running through
> >   the hospital doorway at Ronette)?  That whole sequence was very effective and
> >   sent a shiver through my spine.

Ditto.

______________                  _____________________________
Bob Glickstein                | Internet: bobg@andrew.cmu.edu
Information Technology Center | Bitnet:   bobg%andrew@cmuccvma.bitnet
Carnegie Mellon University    | UUCP:     ...!harvard!andrew.cmu.edu!bobg
Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890    |
(412) 268-6743                | Sinners can repent, but stupid is forever

So what is a "bullet hit" that (so I have heard) Laura refers to
in her diary?  It is clearly some kind of drug, but what?

The thing that Blackie got from Jerry Horne, and Shelley got from
Bobby in the hospital, looked sort of like a bullet.  And the thing
that the Log Lady had in her mouth and then spit out, looked sort
of the same.  And the guy screaming about the pie seemed like
he was on something.

I have never heard of such a thing for cocaine or heroin, but I am not
an expert.  Could it be some weird drug from the military that
everybody is on?  That could explain all the strange behavior in
Twin Peaks.

Could someone refresh my memory on Bobby Briggs and his brother?
What do we know about him?

-----
John Carey
University of Illinois
Dept. of Computer Science
carey@a.cs.uiuc.edu
{uu-net,pur-ee,convex,...}!uiucdcs!carey

In article <7403@darkstar.ucsc.edu> horny@ucscb.ucsc.edu (Michael Kaye) writes:
> >
> >
> >Perhaps this post will seem a little off the deep end, but bear with me
> >and keep an open mind.
> >
> >Twin peaks is filled with recurring symbols.  In many, many scenes,
> >the following images appear:  Fish, Antlers, Indian Totems.
> >Often these are on the wall, directly above characters heads.
> >In the security box bank scene, antlers dominate the foreground.
> >The examples are too numerous to list so I won't even try.
> >If you look for this when you see TP again, you will be shocked
> >at how common they are.  I swear I'm not grasping at straws; there
> >is nothing subtle about these symbols juxtaposition!  They are
> >not arbitrary and do tell us something, much in the same way that
> >"Invitation to love" provides little clues.





Horns are an ancient and universal symbol of the cuckold.  It's 
a *joke*.  Get it?








--Barbara





--
Barbara HlavinReason, an ignis fatuus of the mind,
twain@blake.acs.washington.eduWhich leaves the light of nature, 
U Washington AI-10/Seattle 98195Sense, behind.  -John Wilmot

In article <1990Oct3.014732.3708@cadence.com> phz@cadence.com (Pete Zakel) writes:
> >Twin Peaks isn't just some bit of TV fluff where various clues can just
> >be thrown away or ignored at the whim of the writers.  Twin Peaks is a
> >major work that strives for a wholeness and continuity that is rarely seen
> >on TV or film today.  Twin Peaks does not exist in this world, but it is
> >every bit as real as this one.  The characters are real, and have as many
> >dimensions and facets and any real human you may meet.
> >
> >Yes, there are occasional continuity glitches, like the chain on the half-
> >heart in Jacoby's coconut, or the change in Laura's tape -- but these are
> >minor, like the occasional typos that occur in even the best of novels.
> >Twin Peaks is a masterwork.  You can't just skip over chapters like some
> >dime romance novel.  It must be viewed as a whole.

Good job, Pete!  You've quite eloquently said what's been on my mind as
I watched the show and read the many postings it has spawned.  The
second season opener was pure Lynch; it reminded me a lot of
_Eraserhead_ in that it is clearly set in an alternate reality which
is very much like ours, only different ;-) The mystic elements don't
bother me at all, although I am a scientist and avowed skeptic--this is
Lynch's vision, and like all true artists he uses his medium (first
films and now TV) to allow us to glimpse his reality, share his vision,
and in some small way to see through his eyes. This ain't _Knot's Landing_
kids!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Mike Tripicco    Astronomy Program, UMD  College Park MD 20742           +
+                                            Internet: miket@astro.umd.edu +
+"Long as we got to be, Long as we are,                                    +
+    I just want to be, One of them little stars"                          +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

In article <0b2GwQ_00WCQI3BF9A@andrew.cmu.edu>, jp4t+@andrew.cmu.edu
(Jean-Luc H. Park) writes:
> > 
> >    There's one thing that I must know before I go on.  Is the secret
> > cult that includes hawk and the sheriff an Owl cult?  if so that would
> > explain quite a bit.  Owl is the spirit that sits back and observes,
> > this spirit interferes only in the most extreame of situations.  Thus if
> > my theory is correct, the giant is Owl personified, and the references
> > to owls, such as those within the diary, "owls can sometimes be big",
> > and the scene with the owl attacking Laura,  would explain that Owl was
> > interfering in protecting the town.  Now to find something that would be
> > large enough to cause the activation of Owl.  This is where things get
> > very magical.  BOB is not a normal person, but what is Mike?   Also,
> > where is the different plane?  Is it Hell?  or Hades?  And what interest
> > does the little man have in T.P. or at least Laura Palmer? 
> >  

If you listen to the final scene of the last broadcast (Ronette's
dream), towards the end as the camera pans from Ronette's body
to Bob's face, you can hear an owl-like hooting sound.  Note that
it's not a "distant hoot in the night" owl sound, but a sound coming
from within the train car.  This is a pretty strong hint that Bob
is an Owl!

****************************************************************
* Greg Sandell (sandell@ils.nwu.edu)              Evanston, IL *
* Institute for the Learning Sciences, Northwestern University *
****************************************************************

In article <0b2GwQ_00WCQI3BF9A@andrew.cmu.edu> jp4t+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jean-Luc H. Park) writes:
> >
> >
> >  Of course this is all conjecture, Lynch can interpret the legends in
> >any way he wishes to, including the Tebetian legends.  There's more to




Which Tibetan legends are you referring to?



--Barbara


--
Barbara HlavinReason, an ignis fatuus of the mind,
twain@blake.acs.washington.eduWhich leaves the light of nature, 
U Washington AI-10/Seattle 98195Sense, behind.  -John Wilmot

 I've been seriously considering rewatching all my tapes of TP and transcribing
 the episodes in script form.  This would probably make detective-work and just
 plain comprehension a lot easier.   My question: has anyone out there already
done this?  Is there a way that copies of shooting scripts could be obtained?
( I know, that's a long shot).  Is anyone else interested in this idea who
 would like to either share the task or receive copies of the transcripts when
they're finished?  If so, please respond via e-mail.  Thanks.

--Beth  {wonder if Maddy misses me :-) }

You know, Mike, the preppie scum that hung around with Bobby,
dated Donna abusively, and tried to beat up James. I remember
him in the pilot, and in episode #1, because he was still in
jail.

What happened to that character?

---------- Ryan Mathews
-- Internet : mathews@cs.buffalo.edu Bitnet : mathews@sunybcs UUCP :{apple,cornell,decwrl,harvard,rutgers,talcott,ucbvax,uunet}! cs.buffalo.edu!mathews

I'd appreciate corrections and help. I'm going to try to see how
much of the original dream sequence has been already used.

A one-armed man has appeared, satisfying that vision.
"Fire, walk with me" -- they found the note with that phrase
"She's my niece. But doesn't she look just like Laura Palmer?"
-- the appearance of Maddy, Leland's niece
"Where she's from, the birds sing a happy song..."
-- Waldo's "obsession" with Laura
"...and there is always music in the air."
-- they left the record player running
The red room was discovered with the bird and music in it.

That leaves only:
"That gum you like is coming back in style."
and BOB's poem.

Right?
---------- Ryan Mathews
-- Internet : mathews@cs.buffalo.edu Bitnet : mathews@sunybcs UUCP :{apple,cornell,decwrl,harvard,rutgers,talcott,ucbvax,uunet}! cs.buffalo.edu!mathews

In article <38736@eerie.acsu.Buffalo.EDU>, v101pyrw@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Michelle L Zafron) writes...
> > 
> >Then also, TP requires the audience to think, to take an active part in the 
> >show.  I really don't care who killed Laura.  Half the fun for me is the endless

I was visiting family in New Orleans when the premier aired.  A
couple days earlier (attempting to set up "Hey let's watch the
season opener") I asked them if they had seen it, and what did
they think:  Well, here is the voice of mainstream America:

--"Wierd, just plain wierd.  What kinda story-tellin' is that!"

--"It breaks all the RULES of literature.  It can't possibly be
   good."

--"They just keep teasing you on; it's getting ridiculous."

--"I just don't understand it, AT ALL.  The whole show makes
   no sense.  What is this log-lady bit anyway?"

Well, there you have it.  Can't blame it on a lack of education
either.  The four folks I quote above have the following degrees:

-- ex-school teacher, B.A. elementary education

-- ex-chemical engineer, now studying for her CPA licence,
       B.S. Chemical engineering

    -- electrical engineer, B.A. Mathematics, M.S. applied
       engineering sciences

    -- ex-chemical engineer, now 3rd-year medical student

I think you have to like things that challenge the mainstream;
you have to like wandering down a twisted path without concern
for the fact that there might be a quicker and more direct way.
You have to be a bit of a movie/tv buff to appreciate some of
the subtle, inside jokes.  It also helps increase enjoyment
being able to exchange dialogue and ideas with you folks here
on the net.  In all your musings, you have highlighted features
and made me appreciate them more.  This is always what I thought
the job of the critic should be -- enlighten, elaborate on the
viewing experience -- rather than "thumbs up" or "thumbs down."

I hope TP manages to stay on the air, but early reports are that
it continued to lose viewership as the show progressed.  NOt a
good sign, especially for the season opener.  If it does get
canned, maybe a cable station will pick it up.  Or perhaps
Lynch will single-handedly bring back the serial episode to
the big screen.  After all, a 5-year contract for McLachlan
is a long time.  

Imagine....TP on the big screen.  Wow!

In article <1990Oct2.150235.24311@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> ceblair@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Charles Blair) writes:
|  1.  Why would whoever shot Cooper bother wearing a mask?

Cooper's room is on the third floor of the Great Northern, so the killer
has to get in and out and probably prefers not to be recognized if
he or she is seen.

|  3.  Somebody else pointed out Josie's leaving town right after the mill
|burns down doesn't make sense (attracting unwelcome attention).
|  I THINK CATHARINE GOT TO HER AFTER ESCAPING FROM THE MILL AND JOSIE IS NOT
|MAKING HER OWN DECISIONS.

Do we know Josie leaves after the mill burns, or does she leave before?
-- Brian L. Matthews blm@6sceng.UUCP

In article <470@kaos.MATH.UCLA.EDU> sherman@math.ucla.edu (William Sherman) writes:
> >-> The One-Armed Man's full name is Phillip Michael Gerard.  Source:
> >"Diane...".

Additional source: the credits at the end of the season premiere.

--
Mark Vita                                  vita@sunny.dab.ge.com
Advanced Engineering
GE Simulation and Control Systems
Daytona Beach, FL

In article <1990Oct2.101118.643@ceres.physics.uiowa.edu> jak@ceres.physics.uiowa.edu writes:
|1) I think it was Cooper who said that they had found evidence of a third
|man around a window at the cabin in the woods where Laura and Ronette
|were taken. What was this evidence?

He said Hawk found evidence.  I don't think he said what, but Hawk is
a great tracker ("The best."), so it was probably stepped on leaves,
broken twigs, etc.

|2) Leo supposedly left the cabin after they were done with the girls,
|and Jacques had passed out. Where did Leo go when he left, and how did
|the third man get two tied-up grown women to the railroad car by himself?

It isn't stated, but Leo probably just goes home.  The night's fun is
over.  Laura and Ronnette may have passed out so the third man just
carried them (implying he's fairly strong).  If the third man is
supernatural, he could have got them their any number of ways.  Also,
if the third man is someone the girls both know and trust, they
may have just went where he asked them to.
-- Brian L. Matthews blm@6sceng.UUCP

In article <7837@ursa.UUCP> jmd@ursa.UUCP (Josh Diamond) writes:
|An interesting connection -- and one that I did not notice until you
|mentioned.  Maybe Coop is the Quisatz Haderach!

Talk about being type cast :-)  (And it's the Kwisatz Haderach)
-- Brian L. Matthews blm@6sceng.UUCP

In article <1990Oct3.153654.14677@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> carey@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (John Carey) writes:
> >So what is a "bullet hit" that (so I have heard) Laura refers to
> >in her diary?  It is clearly some kind of drug, but what?

She is probably refering to a small device, called a bullet, that
quickly dispenses a dose of cocaine (or any other "powder").
Presumably, this is can be done more quickly and descretely than,
say, using a spoon or straw.

-- Scott Amspoker Basis International, Albuquerque, NM (505) 345-5232 unmvax.cs.unm.edu!bbx!bbxsda!scott

could someone please refresh my memory?  what's the difference between
schizophrenia and multiple-personality disorder?

E-MAIL only please!

thanks,

     byron  (=

In article <7444@darkstar.ucsc.edu> c2h5oh@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Idealistic Bibliomystic) writes:
> >
> >In article <1990Oct2.031402.20048@alembic.acs.com> csu@alembic.acs.com (Dave Mack) writes:
> >
> >[...] The one thing the giant said I really *did* like was something about
> >"what matters is where you've been" in response to Coopers "where are you 
> >from?" [...] I liked the implication that the Giant had not come from some
> >place but that Cooper had gone someplace...

I understood the Giant's words to mean "Let's not talk about me.  What's 
important is where you've been searching for clues to the crime.  You will 
find the evidence you are looking for in one of those places.  He then says 
he will find he will find a clue at Leo Johnson's (someplace where he's been)--
sorry I can't remember the quote.

Conversely, the giant could mean that Cooper has been looking in the *wrong* 
places for clues.

If Cooper had been transported somewhere in his vision, the Giant would say 
"what matters is where you *are*", no?

brad@chips.com

Well, I can't resist, my husband and myself being literary analytic
types and all, but let's look at the meanings of the NAMES in Twin
Peaks.  It's very interesting, I think, to note that:

Cooper = barrel maker, yes, but more appropriately:  "one who
confines (i.e., in the coop, slang for jail).

Hayward = guardian of a town, especially protecting town supplies
from ANIMALS and foragers.  (obviously, the "good guys")

Hurley = well, impetuous -- James and Ed both

Palmer = wanderer, vagrant (in the woods maybe? or from the beaten
path?); also one who practices sleight of hand (hinting at some
switcheroo?)

Gerard = villain (the one-armed shoe salesman)

Truman = absolutely True Man!

Briggs = brig, dialectic variation for "bridge" -- my husband likes
to suggest:  the ways, the means, but not the end -- not sure what
to do with that.

Horne = other than the obvious, Webster (or was it the OED?) offers
that beasts may be referred to simply as "horns."

Don't remember Andy's last name.

But how about Lucy?  Moran = moron?  But she's awfully sweet.

Wouldn't you say Lynch put some thought into this??  Pretty cool.

Our favorite characters are turning up everywhere--this week on Monday
Night Football!

Toward the beginning of the Seattle Seahawks--Bengals game, the opening
shot (population sign of TP and accompanying music) appeared and then
our favorite Special Agent and our favorite Sheriff sitting before a
large pile of doughnuts and holding coffee cups (I may have dreamed the
coffee cups) made some comments about cheering for the Seahawks.

A few minutes later they were back with more comments like "Go
Seahawks."  Too bad I wasn't taping the game...

BTW they may have inspired the Seahawks to their first victory of the
season.

                One of two known Seahawks fans on the Atlantic coast

I saw all the Twin-Peaks episodes when I was in the States. Being back in
the civilised world has one disadvantage however: NO Twin-Peaks. Can anybody
tell me (in less than 100 lines) what happened in the first episode of the
new season?

-- Rop Gonggrijp (ropg@ooc.uva.nl) is also editor of Hack-Tic (hack/phreak mag.) quote: "We don't care about freedom of the mind, | Postbus 22953 (in DUTCH) freedom of signature will do just fine" | 1100 DL AMSTERDAM Any opinions in this posting are wasted on you | tel: +31 20 6001480

> > "You *like* raisins!"
.-.
|S|o John Cusack's mom works at the Twin Peaks hospital now?
| | Tomorrow there'll be Fronch Fries, Fronch Dressing, and
`-' Perrioo!

> > Who's the log lady?  What kind of wood is it?
.-.
|M|argaret.  The wood is probably Douglas Fir.  You've gotta get
`-' hold of the series pilot to appreciate that!

> > I'm just going to sit back, have a beer, turn the VCR on and the
> > brain off, and ENJOY.
.-.
|S|orry, but it's hard to enjoy with the brain off.  Leave the
| | brain off and you'll end up posting hundreds of untenable
| | theories to alt.tv.twin-peaks.  Lord knows we need more of
`-' that!
    <_Jym_>

In article <1990Oct1.204115.29606@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, ceblair@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Charles Blair) writes:
|>    By the way, is ``Killer Bob'' or ``BOB'' referred to as such in
|> any episode of the show?

BOB was mentioned in the 2nd season premiere by James who remembered
that Laura had talked about him once.  I believe it is the first
time the name BOB has been verbalized on TP (as opposed to the diary).


--
H. Morrow Long
Manager of Development
Yale Univ. Comp Sci Dept. Computing Facility

Mail Stop 2158,UUCP: yale!Long-Morrow
Yale Station,ARPA: Long-Morrow@CS.Yale.EDU
New Haven, CT  06520BITNET: Long-Morrow@YaleCS.BITNET
(203)-432-1254FAX:(203)-432-0593

In some article hweibel@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
> >The Third Man must have physical reality for the Log to hear him move past the
> >cabin on the night of the murder and for him to write "Fire walk with me" in
> >his own blood.  If we accept that the Giant has physical existence, then BOB
> >could be both a "real" person (therefore the real killer) AND a mystical
> >force that is the "presence" that HST tells Cooper the Bookhouse Boys are
> >against.
> >And to go even further... The mystical force could have used Laura as a "host"
> >-- (in the way Redjac did in the Star Trek episode "Wolf in the Fold") --
> >choosing her because she had a tortured, fragmented psyche that it could easily
> >infiltrate.  Perhaps this force has now passed on to Donna.
> >
> >(Ok... one problem with this theory is the question "Why would BOB murder his
> >host?"  Oh well....)

ok, i can't supress myself any longer.  BOB didn't murder his host!

my guess is ronnette is the killer, but...is another person involved?
josie perhaps?  

casting
imagine BOB to be bob lydecker (does his clinic really say "the beast
incarnate"?).  my guess is bobby put him in the hospital--why? maybe some
drug-related connection.  lydecker's condition is bad...bobby may be
thinking that he has almost killed someone, the intent to kill was there,
so he acts as though he has succeeded.

the one armed man and lydecker have an obvious connection--a previous
murder.  let's leave this to cooper's dream.  OAM has "reformed."

pulling hawk's comment about a spirit personality, lydecker's spirit is
set free to roam and cause chaos, more than before.

BOB "possessed" laura and tried to get her to act out his murder of ronnette
(hence the "r" under laura's fingernail-- a convienient place to keep a 
small scrap "safe".  laura however is self destructing (bob's power over her
is weakening), and does not carry out the murder.  instead she herself is 
killed by ronnette.  ronnette experiences BOB possessing her as he 
spiritually runs into the car.  remember how in the last scene of the 
r, BOB is holding laura's body and seems angry that she is dead?  BOB
"loved" laura, his emotional fury causes the complete emotional breakdown in
ronnette.

other clues that fit?
 "three have seen him -- yes -- but not his body"
ronnette
cooper
sarah palmer
 "only one known to you, ready now to talk"
the one armed man.
remember how this guy told lucy that this was his first
chance to get around to seeing cooper.  ronnette (at the
time the giant speaks) is still in a coma.

something that doesn't quite fit:
FIRE, WALK WITH ME.  whose blood?  josie's? is josie the "j"
that laura was worried about meeting that night?  i don't
necessarily buy into josie being involved with BOB as BOB, but
maybe as lydecker. josie's been around...and is undoutably "bad".
but i can't quite pin this down...how about the blood is that
of an animal, and it is "falsing" an AB- test, maybe the blood 
of that cross between a rottweiler and a poodle?
who wrapped up laura's body? leo?

related:
donna seems to be on drugs...didn't she used to do drugs with laura?
BOB may be staking out new territory now that ronnette is in such
sorry shape, and laura is dead.

theory:
the giant is real.  cooper finishes off his message to diane with
some mumble about "i wish the tibetians would get their country
back and the dali lama (sp?) can return home" and the giant appears.
seems i remember some easter religions course i had that mentioned
that some sects claimed to be able to (in a sense) "teleport"
themselves and objects over great distances.  cooper's ring is gone.
leland is just nutso.

i want to see:
what does bob lydecker look like?
is the giant's voice on the recorder?
who are the two orientals? assassins?
who shot cooper?  (i don't think leland did it--oriental?)

i don't expect to see:
ronnette may be out of a coma, but this girls going to be pretty
disfunctional--i don't expect to get anything sensible out of her.

off beat:
albert is the killer, he has been spelling his name, and just
finished his first name.  now on to his last name.

~spass
--
spass otto stoiantschewsky"i shot agent cooper"
put this subject in your kill file

> >Also, I think that in all the chaos of the train car scene, the 
> >letter 'R' ended up under the wrong girl's fingernail, and it
> >was meant for 'R'onnette (like the 'T'hersa Banks, earlier). In fact, 
> >Leland my have been thinking he was killing Ronnette the whole time, 
> >up until that wild scream at the end.  
> >

"The owls are not what they seem"
At the end of the murder scene we hear owls hooting. As the killer
looks down we hear "Who?". Is it an owl or is it the killer being suprised
by his victims identity?

sandell@ferret.ils.nwu.edu (Greg Sandell) writes:

> > 
> > Did anybody notice the unidentifiable animal in the railcar scene
> > at the end of the last episode?  
> > 
> > Close to the end of the scene, there is a long pan down Ronette's body, 
> > (i.e., Ronette in the railcar, not lying in the hospital bed) from head 
> > down to belly.  You hear a heavy breathing sound, with a slight mixture
> > of moaning, such as a person makes when they're falling asleep.  But
> > this not a human moan, it the moan of some very large beast.  The
> > camera pans up to what we must assume is Bob's hand...but what is his
> > hand resting on...?  It *looks* like the giant snout of an animal,
> > and the damn thing shudders in time to the breathing!  (Actually, on
> > the left side of the 'snout' you can see something that resembles
> > a human nose, but nothing else there looks like it could be a face.)
> > Next, the scene turns black and we find ourselves looking at Bob,
> > and he starts screaming...but it's not just his voice alone, there
> > are other people and perhaps animals screaming.

His hand was resting on his own knee, he was crouching.  That was Laura's
body, BTW

paul

When I first read this, I thought it was a little far fetched.  But after
the season premiere, it really makes alot of sense.  There (obviously) is
a lot of that good ole theme Good and Evil (Fire (in the message,
the mill, the log lady: "Fire is the devil..."), Leo's red corvette, red
curtains, the traffic light turns red as we watch, Dr. Jacoby's glasses:
one Red and one Blue, killer-Bob wears a crown of thorns in the visions).
Not to mention all the mysticism.  And then we have Laura who seems to be 
the epitome of evil, contrasted with Madeleine, who is everything good.
What if Maddy was the one that died, sacrificed (twelve candles in a
circle around a mound of dirt) so that Laura could be 'reborn'; there
are other rebirths, Leland's white hair (purity?) and new outlook on life;
the one armed man: "but when I saw the face of God, I was changed", to 
name a few.  Some other things to think about:

Why visit Tibet?  (more of a belief in the afterlife, etc?)
One armed man in dream:
  Through the darkness of future pasts,
  The magician longs to see
  One chance odds between two worlds,
  Fire, walk with me.
The DWARF in the dream:  "She's my cousin.  But doesn't she look
  almost exactly like Laura Palmer?"  ("Laura" in this dream had brown
  hair, like Maddie)

In article <1990Oct2.213054.15071@morrow.stanford.edu> jake@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Jake Lowenstern) writes:

> >Still, the third man is still a mystery...Laura did have sex with three men
> >that night,correct?  jacques, Leo, and ?.

James ? She did have a date with James before the party with Leo, Jacques
and Ronette that night.
    
Eduardo Krell                   AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ

UUCP: {att,decvax,ucbvax}!ulysses!ekrell  Internet: ekrell@ulysses.att.com

kaufman@delta.eecs.nwu.edu (Michael L. Kaufman) writes:

> >I just though of another big support of the L=M theory.  Special Agent Cooper
> >has met everyone on the show except Madeleine.  Why not?  Because as soon as
> >he meets her he is going to know that she is Laura.

Not true.  Or at least only partially true.  They may not have been
formally introduced, but they were both in the front row at the
funeral.

  Jeff Spencer
-- "I'm well armored, though stupid" - Jack (Lalo) Griem Jr, Dec. 4,1989 UUCP: ...!{harvard,linus,inhp4}!dartvax!eleazar!jspencer OtherNets: jspencer@eleazar.Dartmouth.EDU "We are destined to flunk most egregiously." -Bill (B&T's Exlnt Advent.)

> > much desperate scurryindbout in anh: ru3tem>
Date: fto get the plot on
> > track again.  Sunday night, we saw sever
soong-ago forgotten
> > clues/charion ttrs dragged@sdPck into the story . . .
.-.
|L|ong-ago forgotten?  With a memory lifor eat, you could get a
| | job as a "top writer" for _TV_Guide_!  Who says they were
`-' forgotten?

> > The tie-ins to the "Secret Diary of Laura Palmer" were getting
> > obvious and tiresome. . . . All of a sudeen, for example, icalMs
> > like Laura's dual  Aesonality thing, and the whole BOB question,
> > are being being pus!  D
 heard . . .
.-.
|W|ell, I'd expect the two to br, mnsistent.  The dual  Aesonality
| | thing was picked up here on alt.tv.twin-peaks before the diary
| | came out.  And it only makes sense for there to br some more
`-' emphasis on BOB.

> > we also saw heavy-handed changes in Blackie's character any erder
> > to bring it in line with the Diary (i.e. she needed to become a
> > heroin addict, and be interested in fooling around with her "girls").
.-.
|A|gain, here on alt.tv.twin-peaks there was pre-diary conjecture
| | that Blackie had the hots for Audrey.  And Blackie's emaciated
`-' appearance has always been consistent with heroin addictiond ta       * * *
.-.
|I|t's clear to me that Twin Peaks' creators have a real artistic
| | bent to them; they're willing to follow their musesillehver
| | they meandeHews.  Jennifer Lynch was allowed to create a lot
| | of Laura's past
| | when David Lynch directs, the storyline has to scramble to
`-' ince'Bup.
.-.
|T|o me, this isn't "making it up in theDhey go along," it's uralaing
| | Mosce to one's creative soightoe.  Camie may be an occasional
| | slip (the chaany en the locket is one; Donna's other sister
| | certainly is not); but having this kind of creativity on TV
| | is so rare that one ought to appreciate it rather than trying
| | to nitpick it to death, or relatecribe negative mos netoations
| | ("sell those Diane tapes!" and "make s Jwhe Cooper and Audrey
`-' show")upp.nothing of the mon

> > much desperate scurrying about in an attempt to get the plot on
> > track again.  Sunday night, we saw several long-ago forgotten
> > clues/characters dragged back into the story . . .
.-.
|L|ong-ago forgotten?  With a memory like that, you could get a
| | job as a "top writer" for _TV_Guide_!  Who says they were
`-' forgotten?

> > The tie-ins to the "Secret Diary of Laura Palmer" were getting
> > obvious and tiresome. . . . All of a sudeen, for example, ideas
> > like Laura's dual personality thing, and the whole BOB question,
> > are being being pushed heard . . .
.-.
|W|ell, I'd expect the two to be consistent.  The dual personality
| | thing was picked up here on alt.tv.twin-peaks before the diary
| | came out.  And it only makes sense for there to be some more
`-' emphasis on BOB.

> > we also saw heavy-handed changes in Blackie's character in order
> > to bring it in line with the Diary (i.e. she needed to become a
> > heroin addict, and be interested in fooling around with her "girls").
.-.
|A|gain, here on alt.tv.twin-peaks there was pre-diary conjecture
| | that Blackie had the hots for Audrey.  And Blackie's emaciated
`-' appearance has always been consistent with heroin addiction.

      * * *
.-.
|I|t's clear to me that Twin Peaks' creators have a real artistic
| | bent to them; they're willing to follow their muses wherever
| | they meander to.  Jennifer Lynch was allowed to create a lot
| | of Laura's past.  According to the recent _Time_ article,
| | when David Lynch directs, the storyline has to scramble to
`-' keep up.
.-.
|T|o me, this isn't "making it up as they go along," it's keeping
| | true to one's creative source.  There may be an occasional
| | slip (the chain on the locket is one; Donna's other sister
| | certainly is not); but having this kind of creativity on TV
| | is so rare that one ought to appreciate it rather than trying
| | to nitpick it to death, or to ascribe negative motivations
| | ("sell those Diane tapes!" and "make it the Cooper and Audrey
`-' show") where nothing of the sort exists.
    <_Jym_>

6sigma2@polari.UUCP (Brian Matthews) writes:

> > 6.  Why was the note to Donna sent to the Double-R, and not Donna's
> >     house?  Was the sender afraid someone other than Donna would read
> >     it first?  And who sent the note?


Possible SPOILERS follow
^L























The note was sent by Harold, who is keeping Laura's secret diary.
He knows Donna from the diary, that she was close to Laura and is
relatively good, but does not know where she lives.  He contacts
her the only way he can, through meals on wheels, as he is a chronic
agorophobic and cannot leave his house.  He wants Donna to come to
his home so he can give her the diary.  Who knows what she'll do
with it, although if she gives it to Cooper, that would advance
the story te fastest, so that's probably what she WON'T do.

paul

In article <1990Oct1.222919.17384@alembic.acs.com> csu@alembic.acs.com 
(Dave Mack) writes:
> > BONUS ANSWER: The classified project that Major Briggs can't talk
> > about is a nerve gas which induces psychotic behavior. The factory
> > is in the Woods and, now and then, they have leaks.

I LOVE IT!

"Floating Dragon", that's the answer!  Who do suppose the first "leaker" is going to be?

--
Lefty  (lefty@twg.com)                        "And you may ask yourself,
DoD # 0152                                       'How do I work this?'"

In article <7400@darkstar.ucsc.edu>, horny@ucscb.ucsc.edu (Michael Kaye)
writes:

|>Someone mentioned that Jerry Horne could
|>have done it: he was out of town, in Europe, eating those baguettes. :)

That was me. I said he was the type who could do it. A scary little
twirp he is.

I agree that Leland is the obvious choice - he got Renault and Jacoby
(so it seems) - and he's clearly the most unhinged person there, save
for the Log Lady.

But maybe he's a bit too obvious. And why would he drag Ronnette 
along to the RR car if his hang-up is with Laura? And "Fire walk with
me" seems a bit too, I dunno, spiritual for Leland. He's obviously
capable of killing under stress, but the other ritualistic stuff
that went on at the crime scene just doesn't fit.

Now, the clue from the premiere about Leo being in jail. That
has possibilities. That's an easy source for some cult-killer type
with a link to the cabin (by knowing Leo). This would be a real
cheap way to solve things though.

-MSM
____________________________________________________________________________
Mark S. Miller      UUCP: msmiller@Sun.COM      "In a nation ruled by swine,
                                                all pigs are upward mobile."
Disclaimer: I work for me, so do my words.             - Hunter S. Thompson

Diary Spoiler Coming Up . . .










I hate to refer to the diary, since it's really a supplementary
piece of evidence, but there's a lot of people who think Donna
and Maddie have never met before. In the diary, it's clear that
they have. Maddie even gave Donna and Laura their first cigarettes.
I think you could infer this relationship even without reading the
diary. I mean, Donna was Laura's best friend and Maddie seems like
a cousin Laura would be close with since they look so much alike
and Maddie has such a strong link emotionally with Laura. That
explains why Maddie knows Donna's phone number so well, too     
(referring to that person who said Maddie must be Laura because
she dialed Donna's number without looking at the phone).   

Also, in the diary, Donna's no angel. She's just less screwed
up than Laura.
--

In article <jgp.654853622@rutabaga>, jgp@rutabaga.Rational.COM (Jim
Pellmann) writes:
|>    
|>- From where or what did Jacoby get the smell of scorched engine oil?

The only place that makes sense would be Big Ed's garage.
____________________________________________________________________________
Mark S. Miller      UUCP: msmiller@Sun.COM      "In a nation ruled by swine,
                                                all pigs are upward mobile."
Disclaimer: I work for me, so do my words.             - Hunter S. Thompson

Alan Clegg at Matrix Corporation, Raleigh, NC, writes:

> >After having watched my FIRST episode of Twin Peaks (season premier),
> >I could not get this *(*&(^*&^*& tune out of my mind.  What are the words?

> >                Does eat oats
> >                And lambs eat oats
> >                and little kids eat ivy ... ??? ... ???

I think the words are:

(Ohhhh) Mares eat oats
and does eat oats
and little lambs eat ivy.

- ced

>> >> Why didn't we see Leo at all?
> >  I wish we had.  Director's prerogative.  I was hoping for a
> >  quick shot of him connected to several machines that go 'ping'.
.-.
|I| thought that the machine that goes 'ping' meant that the baby
| | was still alive.  Does this mean Leo's pregnant?  Perhaps his
| | "Leo needs a new pair of shoes" was a reference to the old
`-' saying, "baby needs a new pair of shoes?"
    <_Jym_>

In article <90275.190241JMN101@psuvm.psu.edu> JMN101@psuvm.psu.edu writes:

> >Maybe it was Mike the OAM who killed laura and beat up Ronnette.  After the
> >deed was done Bob comes upon them (or BOB who is really Laura's other personali
> >ty) and sees what has been done and screams out in agony, helping Mike to cut
> >off his own arm which is where all of the blood came from.

Laura was killed just after midnight on Feb. 24.  Cooper et al question
Mr. Gerard the afternoon of Feb. 28.  In that scene we see him naked 
from the waist up.  If his missing arm was cut off on the night of the
LP murder, that is one amazing recuperation. 

Of course, nobody here will need to be reminded of the amazing 
recuperative powers of the human body, once the will is invoked...


--
************************ |UUCP: ...!sun!EBay!thismoment!duane
  but one of the choices | COM: duane@thismoment.EBay.sun.com
turns existence into art |ARPA: duane@sun.arpa                      
************************ |USPS: 2550 Garcia Ave. M/S M3-76, Mtn. View CA 94042

References: <1990Oct2.193018.12783@velvet.com>

In article <1990Oct2.193018.12783@velvet.com> barb@velvet.com (Barbara Petersen) writes:
> >The word that came most strongly to mind was "pathetic".  A few of the good
> >points remain: many of the characters are still interesting; the direction is
> >still top-notch; there are still lots of "good lines".

I agree.  I didn't find this episode interesting at all.  The dry, unexplanably
weird little touches that I associate with Lynch's work were missing from this
show.  The existing weirdness sort of whomped one upside the head - no
subtleties whatsoever.  I also hated the music - too much "standard prime-time
drama" music and almost no "eerie Lynch/Cruise" music. If I hadn't known that
Lynch directed this episode, I would have guessed that it was done by someone
who didn't quite "get" the concept.

I didn't like the last episode from last season because too much was crammed
in; this spoiled the dreamy pace of the initial shows.  That dreamy pace has
not returned in the new season.

> >-- The continuity errors still irk.  How many siblings does Donna have this
> >   week?  Will the half-heart be on a chain or a leather thong this week?
> >   Which tape will we hear this time?  (Yet another?  Why, if Cooper had
> >   memorized Leo Johnson's police record, as we saw last season, didn't he
> >   already know that Leo was in jail on the night of Theresa Banks' murder?)

Was anyone else disconcerted by the difference in Harriet?  I thought
at first that she was being played by a different actress.  Then I
decided that it was just that the actress has had her braces removed
and her hair straightened.  Quite a change for a story that has
advanced only a few days...

> >-- The quirkiness and moodiness is no longer an integral part of the show; it's
> >   become forced.  It felt almost as if they produced an episode of a "normal"
> >   television show, then, as an afterthought, ran the whole thing through their
> >   patented "quirkiness and moodiness" post-processor.  Things like the opening
> >   scene with the room-service waiter, or the bit with Ben and Jerry dancing as
> >   Leland sings, bordered on the farcical (or the idiotic -- take your pick).

I agree 100%.  The thing I like best about Lynch's other works, including the
first 2 episodes of Twin Peaks, is that the quirkiness is both understated
and unexpected.  I also LOVE the way that Lynch's violence and evil is both
funny and attractive (in the sense that the "bad" characters are far more
interesting than the "good" characters).  I laughed the whole way through
the very first episode last season.  I did not find that kind of enjoyment
in this latest episode. In particular, I thought that the final
Laura/Bob/violence scene was overdone and mishandled.

> >Ultimately, I wonder if it's even *possible* for a week-after-week television
> >show format to be compatible with the sort of production that "Twin Peaks"
> >wanted (and wants) to be.  As a mini-series, it could have been a classic; as
> >it is, it continues to grow embarrassing.

I thought so, too, but I'll keep watching in hopes of a better episode
coming along...

Anne Chenette
  anne@cray.com
    or
      ..!uunet!cray!anne

The subject says it. There was a timeline for part of the first
season.  Anyone have any newer ones?

-- John Lutz jnlst1@unix.cis.pitt.edu Phone (412)622-1018 "A world that needs disclaimers on news postings has WAY too many lawyers"

> > Another one was the sudden addition of another daughter in the
> > Hayward family, the piano-prodigy/bright-student/fairy-princess.
.-.
|A|s far as I'm concerned, Lynch can introduce a new Hayward
| | daughter with every episode he directs.  Harriet was one
| | of my favorite characters from the pilot.  The new daughter
`-' was the catalyst for my favorite part of the season premiere.
.-.
|I| was worried that Harriet was brushed aside.  (None of Donna's
`-' sisters were in the diary.)
    <_Jym_>

P.S.:  And of course Mike hasn't been forgotten either.  James
    did mention him when talking to HST.

> >  I still can't decide between Leland Ben and Ronnette
> >as the killer.  ( I liked the theory that Bob=Laura and Ronnette killed
> >Laura/bob in self defense.)

I like this theory too but there are two major problems with it:

1) Who's blood is it on the 'fire' note?

2) Who is the third man who had sex with Laura?

Right now, I'd have to say the Leland theory is top on my list, although I
don't know how this would fit with my first question above...

By the way, could someone let me know what Leland's first name is? --I forgot.
Thanks.

Dave

In article <1990Oct2.213047.16956@Matrix.COM> abc@Matrix.COM (Alan Clegg) writes:
> >After having watched my FIRST episode of Twin Peaks (season premier),
> >I could not get this *(*&(^*&^*& tune out of my mind.  What are the words?

I may have the spelling wrong, but it's something like this:

Oh, mairzy doats and dozy doats
And little lamzy-divy.
A kiddly-divy too, wouldn't you?

Now if the words sound queer
And funny to your ear,
A little bit jumbled and jivy,
Sing "Mares eat oats and does eat oats
And little lambs eat ivy."

Oh, mairzy doats and dozy doats
And little lamzy-divy.
A kiddly-divy too, wouldn't you?
A kiddly-divy too, wouldn't you?

-- Bob Weissman Internet: bob@omni.com UUCP: ...!{apple,decwrl,pyramid,sgi,uunet}!omni!bob

In article <1222@beguine.UUCP> Heidi.Aycock@samba.acs.unc.edu (BBS Account) writes:
> >I hate to refer to the diary, since it's really a supplementary
> >piece of evidence, but there's a lot of people who think Donna
> >and Maddie have never met before. In the diary, it's clear that
> >they have. Maddie even gave Donna and Laura their first cigarettes.
> >I think you could infer this relationship even without reading the
> >diary. I mean, Donna was Laura's best friend and Maddie seems like
> >a cousin Laura would be close with since they look so much alike
> >and Maddie has such a strong link emotionally with Laura. That
> >explains why Maddie knows Donna's phone number so well, too     
> >(referring to that person who said Maddie must be Laura because
> >she dialed Donna's number without looking at the phone).   

Except that this is one of the plasces where the diary wildly diverges from 
the show.  When M and D meet in the RR, M has to tell D who she is.  If they
knew each other, she would not have had to introduce herself.  Also, I am
not sure how close M and Laura were.  Didn't M tell D that she had not seen
Laura for many years?

I also think that it is dangerous to use specifics from the diary.  The diary
and the show are not to well related.  First of all, Laura is still making
notes in the diary for 8 months after she is supposed to have died.  In the
show, doesn't M say that she is Laura's age?  In the diary, she is 4 years
older.  I am only about 50 pages into the diary, but there are lots of 
things that don't match up.  (Well, a few anyhow.)  I think that the diary
is better for getting Laura's impressions of things and not as good for
solving questions about the show.

Michael

Michael L. Kaufman   || It is time to face up to the fact that the government
kaufman@eecs.nwu.edu || is not just adding to the problem; the government is
                     || the problem.
                     ||                                  David D. Friedman

In article <1990Oct3.142016@cs.yale.edu> long-morrow@cs.yale.edu (H. Morrow Long) writes:
<In article <1990Oct1.204115.29606@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, ceblair@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Charles Blair) writes:
<|>    By the way, is ``Killer Bob'' or ``BOB'' referred to as such in
<|> any episode of the show?
<
<BOB was mentioned in the 2nd season premiere by James who remembered
<that Laura had talked about him once.  I believe it is the first
<time the name BOB has been verbalized on TP (as opposed to the diary).

"Bob" was named in Cooper's dream in the second episode of the first
season: "My name is Mike -- his name is Bob" and repeated in the third
episode when Cooper describes the dream to Truman and Lucy.

Jan BielawskiInternet:jbielawski@ucsd.edu
Bitnet:jbielawski@ucsd.bitnet
Dept. of MathUUCP:jbielawski@ucsd.uucp
UCSD  ( {ucsd,sdcsvax}!{igrad1,sdcc6}!ma299ai )

In article <90276.121639BXJ101@psuvm.psu.edu> BXJ101@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
<
< I've been seriously considering rewatching all my tapes of TP and transcribing
< the episodes in script form.  This would probably make detective-work and just
< plain comprehension a lot easier.   My question: has anyone out there already
<done this?  Is there a way that copies of shooting scripts could be obtained?

I've seen the script for the very first (or zero-th) episode in
a Hollywood bookstore (titled "Northwest Passage a.k.a. Twin Peaks") and
I assume more scripts will soon follow.  It's remarkably close to what
we can see on the screen (although Lucy's famous "I'm going to transfer
it to the phone by the red chair" isn't there for example).  As far as
an exact description of the finished film goes (a cutting continuity)
sorry, I have no idea.  The effort of preparing these is considerable.

Jan BielawskiInternet:jbielawski@ucsd.edu
Bitnet:jbielawski@ucsd.bitnet
Dept. of MathUUCP:jbielawski@ucsd.uucp
UCSD  ( {ucsd,sdcsvax}!{igrad1,sdcc6}!ma299ai )

In article <JYM.90Oct2111513@remarque.berkeley.edu>, jym@remarque.berkeley.edu 
(Jym Dyer) writes:
>> >> OK - I saw the butchered video of Twin Peaks (referred to as the
>> >> Euro-version?) on the weekend and I want to know - what rela-
>> >> tionship does it have to the TV series[?]
> > ..-.
> > |I| haven't seen the Euro-version, but from what I've read in this
> > | | newsgroup, it's made up of portions of the TV series.  The
> > | | first two hours, I think, are the same two hours that comprise
> > | | the sereies' pilot movie.  The "25 years later" scene showed
> > `-' up as Cooper's dream in the second episode.
> > ..-.
> > |T|he end of the Euro-version, in which the killer is found, has
> > | | not appeared in the TV series.  And it might not, since the
> > | | creators have said that the Euro-killer is not the same as
> > `-' the TV-killer.
> > ..-.
> > |F|or more details, check out Jerry Boyajian's timeline.
> > `-' <_Jym_>

Please excuse me if this has already been mentionedin some previous posting.  I
still have about 156 more to go through, but I wanted to comment.

I haven't seen the Euro-version either, but from what I understand, it is NOT
made up of portions of the TV series.  The 2-hr show had different names for at
least most of the characters, lo and behold: different actors, and a very
clear cut ending.

In it, Bobby Briggs was NOT the killer, as some previous poster had mentioned. 
Instead, BOB (aka Killer Bob) was the real murderer, and he was some time
travelling psychopath who actuallly killed his victims in reverse chronological
order.

I don't know how that 25-year-after scene (not a dream) was actualized, though.

Hope this helps.

+---------------------------+--------------------------------------------------+
| Gerry Grosz               | "If I had a boat, I'd go out on the ocean.  If I |
| ggrosz@eagle.wesleyan.edu | had a pony, I'd ride him on my boat." - L.Lovett |
+---------------------------+-----------------+--------------------------------+
| "Diane, I am now holding in my hand a       | I had a quote here, but I guess|
| small box of chocolate bunnies." - D.Cooper | it was unoriginal.   - ggrosz  |
+---------------------------------------------+--------------------------------+

who actually travelled

I have heard that both the BBC (UK) and RTL4 (Luxemburg)
have bought the TP series. In fact, I just saw a trailer
on the BBC. But no dates were mentioned when the series will start.

Does anyone know the facts? I wouldn't want to miss the pilot.
-- Pim Zandbergen domain : pim@cti-software.nl CTI Software BV uucp : uunet!mcsun!hp4nl!ctisbv!pim Laan Copes van Cattenburch 70 phone : +31 70 3542302 2585 GD The Hague, The Netherlands fax : +31 70 3512837

www@sppy00.UUCP (Victor Shakapopolis) writes:


> >I wonder if his voice will appear on Cooper's tape?  Also did the Giant's
> >voice fade out at certain points like a signal losing strength?  It did
> >here in Columbus.

I paid very careful attention to sound during the episode.  Lynch appears to
use sound (or the lack of it) to frustrate the viewer and make him pay more
attention.

Yes, the giant's voice did fade in and out, in regular intervals, and in
three volume states.  He would be loud for about a second, normal for about
a second, quiet for a second, normal, and loud again, until he stopped 
talking.                                

I have come to the conclusion that Indian Burial grounds and aliens are
responsible for the problems in TP.
-- Clay Luther, Postmaster cluther@supernet.haus.com postmaster@supernet.haus.com clay.luther@supernet.haus.com Harris Adacom Corporation MS 23, PO Box 809022, Dallas, Tx 75380-9022 214/386-2356 Your mileage may vary. Void where prohibited.

A few people have been discussing this poem, and I've been
wondering: is the word "ours" or "out"?  I thought the poem went
like this:

In the darkness of future past
the magician longs to see
one chance *out* between two worlds
fire walk with me.

I listened to Mike saying it three or four times, and thought it
sounded like "out"; does anyone else hear that, or is it
generally agreed that the word is "ours"?

- ced

Does anyone remember a scene from the first season where Leland is     
getting his blood tested?  I'm sure I remember seeing it.  He was in his house
and some woman had just taken a blood sample I assume.  We don't actually see
blood being drawn but he puts a cotton ball(?) on his arm and closes his arm
by bending his elbow on the cotton ball.  As anyone who has been in a hospital
will tell you, this is what happens after someone takes your blood?

Why was Leland having his blood tested?  To find out what type it was?

I'm sure this scene exists but I haven't been able to find it on any
of my tapes (which are incomplete).  The scene is very short and can go right
by you.  Can someone else verify such a scene?  It was around the middle of
the first season.

Did anyone see the new commercial for this week's Twin Peaks.  We see killer
Bob climbing over a couch (in the Palmer's house?).  Can't Wait.

The Disco Strangler

What I don't understand is why everyone thinks Bob was screaming or howling.

He was, most definitely, laughing, in quadraphonic no less.


-- Clay Luther, Postmaster cluther@supernet.haus.com postmaster@supernet.haus.com clay.luther@supernet.haus.com Harris Adacom Corporation MS 23, PO Box 809022, Dallas, Tx 75380-9022 214/386-2356 Your mileage may vary. Void where prohibited.

A friend of mine suggested this.  I think it sounds good.

Bob is...

BeelzeBOB

:)

-- Clay Luther, Postmaster cluther@supernet.haus.com postmaster@supernet.haus.com clay.luther@supernet.haus.com Harris Adacom Corporation MS 23, PO Box 809022, Dallas, Tx 75380-9022 214/386-2356 Your mileage may vary. Void where prohibited.

> >A one-armed man has appeared, satisfying that vision.
> >"Fire, walk with me" -- they found the note with that phrase
> >"She's my niece. But doesn't she look just like Laura Palmer?"
> >-- the appearance of Maddy, Leland's niece
> >"Where she's from, the birds sing a happy song..."
> >-- Waldo's "obsession" with Laura
> >"...and there is always music in the air."
> >-- they left the record player running
> >The red room was discovered with the bird and music in it.
> >
> >That leaves only:
> >"That gum you like is coming back in style."
> >and BOB's poem.

How about the log lady's hitting the catsup bottle with the gum she spit 
then pressing it on to the wall (as opposed to under the table)? Has
anyone noticed any gum chewers among the characters lateley?

It seems that these mysterious lines are not really clues but they
some more like teasers on what is coming ahead. It kinda feels great
though once you figure them out (yet another tool used by Lynch
for manipulating our minds and emotions).


the owl doesn't seem to be pointing at a smiling man holding a bag of 
chemicals,
Louie

In article <2531@polari.UUCP> 6sigma2@polari.UUCP (Brian Matthews) writes:
> >But some "looks" pass between James and Maddy, and at least one time
> >Donna notices this and seems jealous.  It's certainly not inconceivable
> >that Donna thinks James is falling for Maddy.

In this season's premiere, Donna has one conversation with Maddie and
one with James.  Almost the very first thing each one does is ask about
the other...

This is clearly a sub-plot we will see more of in the future.

Pat
"I think now I understand how you feel about your husband's death."
Disclaimer: I have no employer.

If this has been discussed, I'm sorry.  As much as it pains me, I just don't
have time to read all these posts.

Questions:

1.  Why aren't Jacque Renault's initials in the diary on the page of 
    sexual experiences?  They ought to be.  She clearly discusses
    her activities with Jacque on previous pages?

2.  Diary again.  Initials again.  The several unseen persons in the
    woods ought to be listed with Leo Johnson.  Are the initials in
    code?  I worked out a code which makes the first entry of B. convert
    to Z (possibly Zippy in the diary).  Converts J.H. to L.J. (Leo 
    Johnson), etc.  Am I stretching things here.  Is this a continuity
    error in the diary?  Bobby Briggs becomes D.D.

3.  Leo inside a hungry horse.  Laura let her horse Troy loose.  He
    is found near the border hungry and shot in Benjamin's presence.
    Perhaps that clue has nothing to do with Leo in jail.  Hmm.

4.  BOB in the window.  Possibly a reflection from the door.

5.  Laura doesn't seem upset enough when she is writing about the
    death of her cat.  I mean she discusses dinner, etc. before
    she gets to it.

6.  Laura sleep walks frequently!

7.  I think Donna was also being molested, she just handled it 
    differently.  Recall her speech to Maddie about worrying
    about the effects of what they had done.

8.  Doesn't anybody think that the little family night at the
    Hayward's was quite cruel to Leland and Sarah Palmer.
    Displaying and showcasing their daughter's talents and
    achievements?  Are these people friends?


Enough for now.  I really think there must be some significance to
Jacque's initials not being on the list.  It is driving me crazy.

Connie

In article <1158600077@cdp> ddulmage@cdp.UUCP writes:
> >Hi, ok, I'll try and get those up in the next 24 hours.. if I can find
> >them.. were they both from the season premiere?
> >Doug Dulmage

Yes, both from the 9/30 show. Mega-thanks:
 
-- ================================================================= Delia Cioffi: -- University of Houston: cioffi@menudo.uh.edu -- Stanford University: cioffi@psych.stanford.edu

In article <38839@eerie.acsu.Buffalo.EDU> riacmt@ubvmsa.cc.buffalo.edu writes:
> >
> >I was visiting family in New Orleans when the premier aired.

My 73-year-old grandmother's response to her first exposure to Twin Peaks,
which happened to be the last 15 minutes of the second season premier:

"What fun!"

Maybe there's something to genetics after all. ;-)

Liz
 --------------------------------------
/ My grandmother killed Laura Palmer. /
--------------------------------------

Oh, Owl is not always "good", just useful to man, there maybe things
that the log lady does not want Owl to know.  Then again, it may be
playing both sides of the fence, Anyways the evil spirit that has
existed since before at T.P. is something, maybe it's the spirit that
has allowed BOB his powers from the neitherworld?
 
J-l P

I saw a commerical for episode 2.1 last night on ABC.  It featured:
 - A scene where killer BOB is entering a room through an open window,
   with the curtains billowing in the wind.  He climbs over a couch in
   front of the window.  
 - Coop (and others) go to talk to Ronnette.  In the clip, they Coop shows
   her the sketch of BOB made from Coop's dream and Mrs. Palmer's vision
   and asks if he was the 3rd man.  

There was something else, but I was so heavily hit by the first two clips
I can't remember any more.  I guess I need a giant to come and visit me...

   Herb...

In article <JYM.90Oct3235046@remarque.berkeley.edu> you write:
>> >> First of all, Laura is still making notes in the diary for 8
>> >> months after she is supposed to have died.
> >.-.
> >|S|he died in February, 1990.  The last dated entry is in October
> >`-' 1989.  Theresa Banks was killed in February 1989, not Laura.

I got the impression that the show takes place in 1989. February 23 is a
Thursday in 1989, not 1990. The days are verified when in the second "day"
in the series, when James is at the Haywards, Mr. Hayward asks if Donna
will be at church tommorow. The next day, she meets Audrey at the RR after
church.
In the last episode, Andy mentions that Theresa Banks was killed in 1988,
and Ronette's charts at the foot of her bed was dated 2/24/89. Those 1990
dates in Mr. Battis' book must have been a continuity error.

ed

-- "Are you suggesting there is something... irregular at work here?" Edwin Nomura enomura@sdcc13.ucsd.edu

WARNING:  Discussion of 2nd season premiere follows




 An observation:  In the final scene, Killer Bob        
strikes Laura by clasping his hands, raising them 
high above his head, and swinging them down onto 
Laura (at first I thought he was stabbing her, but
1. I couldn't see any knife, even in freeze-frame
and 2. Laura died from all the small wounds--right?).
This is *exactly* the same blow delivered to Dr. Jacoby
in the park by the masked man.  Are the two assailants
the same person--"masked" in each case?
Going out on a limb:  the giant (and his friends) are
angels.  Go ahead, call me a religious crank!!
But even his pocket flaps look slightly winglike.
Speculation:  Maddie's vision is of her own death.
-- Ed Hughes, SAS Institute |"Not all goaltenders are nuts, you Cary, NC | understand--only about 90% of them." | --Lorne "Gump" Worsley

In article <2536@polari.UUCP> 6sigma2@polari.UUCP (Brian Matthews) writes:
> >In article <1990Oct2.101118.643@ceres.physics.uiowa.edu> jak@ceres.physics.uiowa.edu writes:
> >
> > [...]
> >|2) [...] Where did Leo go when he left, and how did the third man get two 
> >|tied-up grown women to the railroad car by himself?
> >
> >Also, if the third man is someone the girls both know and trust, they
> >may have just went where he asked them to.

Also, we have been told (Albert's autopsy, I think) that Laura and Ronette 
were tied up in the railroad car, *Laura for the second time, Ronette for 
the first*.  So Ronette was *not* tied up, and Laura had been untied (else 
why tie her up a second time?).

In article <30532@netnews.upenn.edu> hafken@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (David Hafken) writes:
> >
> >By the way, could someone let me know what Leland's first name is? --I forgot.
> >Thanks.
> >
> >Dave

Mister?  As in Mister Leland Palmer.

What's your first name, Dave?







--Kirkl
"Look.  It's trying to think."
-- Albert Rosenfield

In article <1212@beguine.UUCP>, Heidi.Aycock@samba.acs.unc.edu (BBS Account) writes:
> > Then she-as-BOB killed herself, somehow.

    One has to wonder, if Laura, as this killer BOB, had a part to
    play in the beating up of Ronda and her own death, does she
    have an alibi for the first serial killing a year ago?  

    Or perhaps this BOB is a mysterious evil force that can pop 
    around from person to person possessing whomever it chooses.
    (Which is pretty bogus...IMHO)

-- -- jogle att!floyd!jogle jogle@floyd.att.com

In article <1990Oct3.212955.33891@eagle.wesleyan.edu> ggrosz@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
> >- Any clues on why 'Mike Gerard' (season 1) turned into 'Philip Michael Gerard'
> >(season 2)?
The name 'Mike' was always his middle name.  Cooper (or Truman?) says,
"Your middle name is Michael."  OAM/PMG replies, "That's right; named after
my uncle."  I guess they wanted to emphasize that OAM isn't the same as
the dream-Mike.  Or should I spell it 'MIKE'?  Oh Lordy, I hope not.
Please, nobody post theories about MIKE.

> >- No question about it.  The character I'd like to see most brought to TP has
> >got to be Diane Shapiro, PhD, Brandeis.  What is Hawk's current relationship
> >with her, anyway?
I'm with you on this.  She must be a cool character for Hawk to say that
she's given him 'a singular joy'.  And what's her Ph.D. in, anyway?


 Bill Sherman sherman@math.ucla.edu
 ... then the ant got stepped on and the grasshopper drove to Florida
for the winter in his sports car.  - Muppet fables

In article <JYM.90Oct3122654@remarque.berkeley.edu> jym@remarque.berkeley.edu
(Jym Dyer) writes:

>> >> much desperate scurrying about in an attempt to get the plot on
>> >> track again.  Sunday night, we saw several long-ago forgotten
>> >> clues/characters dragged back into the story . . .

> > Long-ago forgotten?  With a memory like that, you could get a
> > job as a "top writer" for _TV_Guide_!  Who says they were
> > forgotten?

The problem is not that the viewers forgot them -- the problem was that the
writers seemingly forgot them.  Until Sunday's episode, of course....  As I
said, my complaint here is that the show started off being, among many other
things, a murder mystery.  That aspect of the show was increasingly downplayed
as the story progressed; with the start of the second season, the writers
evidently decided it was time to worry about "who killed Laura Palmer?" once
again.  I had visions of them all sitting around watching last season's shows,
with someone yelling "....and let's take notes this time, dammit!" 

(Honestly, I thought the best option, given the state the plot was in at the
end of last season, would have been to continue on their surreal, chaotic path
to some utterly off-the-wall solution to the murder -- provide two parallel
answers, both correct, for example.  But that wouldn't have gone over too well
with most viewers, I suppose....)

> > Again, here on alt.tv.twin-peaks there was pre-diary conjecture
> > that Blackie had the hots for Audrey.  And Blackie's emaciated
> > appearance has always been consistent with heroin addiction.

Blackie's character, however, was not -- until Sunday, she was bright, alert,
calm, self-assured, together.  And an emaciated appearance is consistent with
an awful lot of things, most notably current fashion in female bodies.

> > It's clear to me that Twin Peaks' creators have a real artistic
> > bent to them; they're willing to follow their muses wherever
> > they meander to.

Their muses are leading them on quite the merry chase....

> > According to the recent _Time_ article, when David Lynch directs,
> > the storyline has to scramble to keep up.  To me, this isn't
> > "making it up as they go along," it's keeping true to one's creative
> > source.

"Hey, why worry about quality?  We're *artistes*, dontcha know?"

> >                                    There may be an occasional
> > slip (the chain on the locket is one; Donna's other sister
> > certainly is not); but having this kind of creativity on TV
> > is so rare that one ought to appreciate it rather than trying
> > to nitpick it to death, or to ascribe negative motivations
> > ("sell those Diane tapes!" and "make it the Cooper and Audrey
> > show") where nothing of the sort exists.

"Creative" does not automatically equal "good".  If the other elements of the
show (or of any work) are so poorly executed that they distract to an extreme
degree, all the creativity in the world won't help.  For me, those other
elements have destroyed any possibility of appreciating the show; as to the
negative motivations, well, Lynch and Frost *are* businessmen, too, and I'm
not the first to point that out.  I am most emphatically not saying that you
shouldn't enjoy the show; my intent was only to present, as I said, another
opinion....

--
Barbara Petersen
barb@velvet.com                         ..{uunet, decwrl}!sjsca4!velvet!barb
                             "Dial 888...."

In article <ob2Zrx600WAx4_PEcu@andrew.cmu.edu> jp4t+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jean-Luc H. Park) writes:
> > 
> > About tebetian legends, there are a few, such as the Dali Lama being
> >selected from birth, and being a personification of a god.   I don't
> >have that much information, but can anyone get back to  my first
> >question, and tell me if it is Owl that Hawk and the Sheriff and others
> >are worshipping?
> > 


I have no reason to believe that Hawk and the sheriff "and others" are 
worshipping *anything*, much less an owl.  There are some people in my 
neck of the woods (as it were) who believe environmentalists worship an 
owl, but I don't believe that's particularly relevant.  :-)

By the way, the process of identifying the child who is believed to be 
the reincarnation of all previous Dali Lamas is a fact, not a legend.  
That is, the process actually happens; it is not an unverified popular 
myth.  Not many Westerners believe in reincarnation, but the Buddhists
do.  I understand there's a Western religion that believes its founder 
rose from the dead.  :-)


--Barbara 

--
Barbara HlavinReason, an ignis fatuus of the mind,
twain@blake.acs.washington.eduWhich leaves the light of nature, 
U Washington AI-10/Seattle 98195Sense, behind.  -John Wilmot

In article <Oct.3.18.01.53.1990.1701@cars.rutgers.edu> keane@cars.rutgers.edu
(John Keane) writes:

> >In article <1990Oct2.193018.12783@velvet.com> barb@velvet.com (Barbara
> > Petersen) writes:

>> >> [A very articulate and well-thought-out disparagement of the second
>> >>  season opener]

> > Look at it this way: what other show would motivate that level of
> > criticism?  Yes, it failed to meet your expectations, but would you
> > have expected so much from "Three's Company"?

No.  "Three's Company", on the other hand, does not have newsgroups, fan
clubs, product tie-ins, season premiere parties, zillions of column inches
in newspapers and magazines, masses of critical acclaim, and so on and so
on.  Your point *is* well-taken; I suppose that's the problem, really.  The
show was, in many ways, so close to being so good; that just makes it all
the more frustrating when, in other respects, it falls so short.

> > It's flawed, but it's still better than virtually all of the remainder
> > of the TV wasteland.

Probably why I watch so little TV....

--
Barbara Petersen
barb@velvet.com                        ..{uunet, decwrl}!sjsca4!velvet!barb
                            "Dial 888...."

More likely the giant is a spirit of the trees, which would explain
his height!  What did Tolkien call them, "ents"???
--

---- Henry Kautz

:uucp:allegra!kautz
:arpa/internet: kautz@research.att.com
orkautz@allegra.att.com
:csnet: kautz%research.att.com@RELAY.CS.NET
:old csnet:kautz%allegra@btl.csnet

In article <19080016@hpclpa.HP.COM> dupree@hpclpa.HP.COM (Chuck Dupree) writes:
> >A few people have been discussing this poem, and I've been
> >wondering: is the word "ours" or "out"?  I thought the poem went
> >like this:
> >one chance *out* between two worlds

I agree.  It's 'out'.  Whatever that means.  It's not 'ours', nor is it
'odds' or anything else.
I mean it like it is; like it SOUNDS.


 Bill Sherman sherman@math.ucla.edu
Just on the border of your waking mind, there lies another time where
darkness and light are one; and as you tread the halls of sanity, you feel
so glad to be unable to go beyond.  I have a message from another time. -ELO

   It has been a few days since someone asked about the reference to the
   movie _The Third Man_.  I haven't seen anyone else post a description
   of the movie, so I thought I try.
   
(Spoilers for those who haven't seen the movie)

   At first, I thought the only tie was in the title.  However, after
   thinking about it, it seems that the similarities go much deeper.
   First of all, the movie is about the mysterious death of Harry Lime,
   played by Orson Welles.  Harry is dead at the start of the movie - he
   has been hit by a car.  The movie follows a friend of his who shows up
   the day of Harry's funeral after being summoned to Venice by Harry a
   few days earlier.
   
   This friend (I forgot his name) quickly learns from the police that
   Harry had been dealing on the black market (stealing penicilin,
   diluting it, and reselling it) but he is sure they are wrong - Harry
   was a very nice guy.  Even Harry's girlfriend doesn't believe the
   accusation (Harry had seeecrets).
   
   Through his own investigation, the friend finds someone who saw three
   men with the body after the car accident.  The problem is that the
   people who were with Harry at the time of the accident said there was
   only the two of them, ie the search for the THIRD man.
   
   Later, after leaving Harry's girlfriend's place, he sees a man standing
   in a dark doorway.  The friend realizes he's been followed and assumes
   it is a cop.  He then strikes up a one sided conversation with this
   man, trying to goad him into coming out of the darkness.  After a few
   minutes of shouting, a light is turned on in one of the apartments
   overlooking the street and the man in the doorway is revealed: Harry.
   [zither music jumps about 20 decibels]  Harry faked his own death.
   The light is turned off and Harry runs away.  The movie then goes on
   to chronicle a meeting with Harry and his eventual death.  (Great
   movie!)
   
   Personally, I think the tie in to Twin Peaks is solely in the title.
   However, if it does turn out that Laura is alive, this could be the
   source of David Lynch's inspiration.
   
-- Peter. wilson@iowasp.physics.uiowa.edu ********************************************************************* * "You don't need no crystal ball, Don't fall for a magic wand * * We humans got it all, we perform the miracles " * * - "Them Heavy People", Kate Bush * *********************************************************************

> > ("Laura" in this dream had brown hair, like Maddie)
.-.
|A|re you watching the show on a black & white set?  Laura in
| | the dream had the same color hair as Laura outside of the
`-' dream.  Much lighter than Maddy's.
    <_Jym_>

> >though last 3 minutes were probably some of the most disturbing on the tube
> >to date...

This made the entire show worth it. I'm not sure what everything was that was
shown. But for a brief second I think it showed Laura's face, and I've never
seen anything so evil or scary or disturbing. Killer Bob looked like a pussy-
cat in comparison.

> > That jives with the fact that Laura dies of many small wounds
> > inflicted by Waldo the bird, while Ronette had the heavy bruises
> > and more serious wounds.
.-.
|T|he claw marks and scratches on her body were not the small
| | wounds that she lost a fatal amount of blood from.  If they
`-' were, the murder investigation would be over.
    <_Jym_>

***
***
...whether u like it or not, i think we will have a new
age/supernatural solution to the LP's murder...there are now too many
characters (dwarf,OAM,BOB,giant) for these to be just dreams...also,
the giant *is* real, implying he's not a dream, but is in fact from
the other plane, a *twin* world...the woods in TP are the entrance/exit
to this plane...therefore, the evil is associated w/ the woods

...now, i don't believe the killer is a physical person that looks
like BOB...i think we can all agree that BOB is the force driving the
killer who is actually a member of TP that we've seen...i think M.
Frost said that we've all seen the killer, but not that we know
him...i think this could mean that it is someone we've seen like
johnny horne but do not know well...but then how was johnny able to
travel when he killed teresa banks?...i also think that when the 10/6
episode is shown, we'll find out that BOB is a supernatural presence
but not who he 'possessed' to kill TB & LP

...one more thing...the ring that the giant took from cooper...what
ring was that?...just one he wears?...not a wedding/engagement ring or
anything significant like that right?...why would he take it?

console cowboy

***

I'm interested in getting some Twin Peaks quotes. Post e-mail me your
favorite *AUTHENTIC* Twin Peaks quotes. I'll post a complete file with all
quotes later.

Here are some to get the ball started:

"I've got compassion running out of my nose, pal. I'm the sultan of sentiment."
                        Albert Rosenfield, "Twin Peaks"

"Diane, 3 P.M. Just back from the Lydecker Clinic. While a llama may produce
some of the finest wools prized around the world, their breath on the other
hand could only be prized somewhere in the far reaches of llama hell."
                        FBI Special Agent Dale Cooper, "Twin Peaks"

"Harry, I'm gonna let you in on a little secret. Every day... once a day...
give yourself a present. Don't plan it; don't wait for it; just... let it
happen. Could be a new shirt at the men's store, a cat-nap in your office,
or... two cups of good, hot, black coffee."
                        FBI Special Agent Dale Cooper, "Twin Peaks"

   "You're quite a girl, Norma. I'll bet you get all kinds of Romeos in here,
uh, begging for favors. How do you keep them from your door?"
   "I usually tell them I have a homocidally jealous husband who's doing three
to five for manslaughter, but he expects to be a productive member of society
real soon."
                        Norma Jennings, "Twin Peaks"

+-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
| Edward J. Sabol               | Arpa:   es2j+@andrew.cmu.edu          |
| Carnegie Mellon University    | Bitnet: R746ES2J@CMCCVB               |
+-------------------------------+ UUCP:   !{psuvax1,uunet}!andrew!es2j+ |
| "The streets that Balboa      | USMail: Edward J. Sabol               |
| walked were his own private   |         Box 4540                      |
| ocean and Balboa was          |         5125 Margaret Morrison St.    |
| drowning." - August Wilson    |         Pittsburgh, PA 15213          |
+-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+

***
***
...for all the magnificent theories concerning the killer that there
have been, and there have been some truly great ones, do any take into
account the letter 't' & 'r' under the fignernails?...i believe this
has got to be the single most important clue?...either its truman and
he wants to be caught or else..?...why would the killer leave any
message there?...who is he trying to talk to?...

console cowboy
***
***

In article <2965@ryn.esg.dec.com>, boyajian@ruby.dec.com (Cisco's Buddy) writes...
< 
<As I understand it, Boyle smokes like a chimney, and apparently would
<go bananas during shoots when she wasn't able to have a drag while doing
<a scene. Perhaps Donna's cigarette smoking was done to accomodate her,
<on top of showing something weird happening with Donna.
< 

Oh come on! Absolutely ridiculous!

--
John Howells
howells@earth.arc.nasa.gov 
howells@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov

   I agree that the supernatural element is going off the rails and didn't like
the personality changes in Donna and Audrey (was glad to see Leland quit crying
all the time, though).  It's amusing in a way that the hand fishing out the
heart half in the woods, which provided one of the most shocking moments of 
the premiere, turns out to have a pretty innocuous explanation.

   I think the scene with the Tibetan lecture and rock throwing ceremony
pretty much symbolizes the show.  The policeman are looking at each other,
wondering ``what are we doing here?'' but they go along with it.  So do we.

   In spite of all the loose ends and implausibilities, there are a lot of 
us who can't resist trying to guess what's supposed to be going on.  They
must be doing something right to keep us interested.

In article <19080016@hpclpa.HP.COM> dupree@hpclpa.HP.COM (Chuck Dupree) writes:
<A few people have been discussing this poem, and I've been
<wondering: is the word "ours" or "out"?  I thought the poem went
<like this:
<
<In the darkness of future past
<the magician longs to see
<one chance *out* between two worlds
<fire walk with me.
<
<I listened to Mike saying it three or four times, and thought it
<sounded like "out"; does anyone else hear that, or is it
<generally agreed that the word is "ours"?

I think it is "chants out" -- the two t's are quite visible I'd
say.

Jan BielawskiInternet:jbielawski@ucsd.edu
Bitnet:jbielawski@ucsd.bitnet
Dept. of MathUUCP:jbielawski@ucsd.uucp
UCSD  ( {ucsd,sdcsvax}!{igrad1,sdcc6}!ma299ai )

In article <22093@spudge.UUCP>, johnm@spudge.UUCP (John Munsch) writes:
> > 1:  Ronette is clearly the one who has seen his (Bob's) body and is now ready
> > to talk.  Her grisly flashback at the end seems to me to kill the idea that
> > Bob could be anything other than a real live person.  No alternate
> > personalities or other nonsense, he's real.

Huh? How can anyone say this based on the final scene? Did that look like
some kind of real-time sensible sequence of actions to you? Looked clearly
like an attempt to throw a number of visions/views of a number of moments
and ideas to me. The continued flashing back and forth between Laura and
'BOB' seemed like a clear attempt to equate the two IMHO. If some yahoo
that we know nothing about is the actual killer then this show is a joke -
"Here look for clues and try to figure out who the killer is - but whoops
it doesn't matter because we're going to throw a meaningless character in
for you that you could not possibly have known about". If it turns out to be
some sort of bullsh*t alien/parallell world storyline then they can kiss
my interest goodbye - why watch a show like this if they can throw in
*anything* they like under the guise of 'it is an alternate reality"???
I'd like to think that the clue about 'only one has seen his body' or
whatever it was - is a clear indication that only Ronnette has seen the
true embodiment of BOB - Laura. Hell, Cooper and Mrs. Palmer have both
'seen' the image of BOB that we saw in Ronnette's vision - why would
it be so damned important that he was not actually physically present?
I really think the key to that 'clue' is that only Ronnette knows that
Laura IS BOB, and those images we saw were the symbolic representation
of that from the mind of a drugged up, badly beaten young woman. 

As to who tied her up? Could be anyone who came along and fought BOB off
of Ronnette - my guess is either Donna's old man or Leland but it could
be anyone.

Whether or not this is even close to correct, I only hope that they avoid the
ridiculous possible endings of an unknown psycho or some screwy magical
world scenario.

gln

  Q: Why was the person who shot Cooper wearing a mask?

  A: Because he or she did not want to be identified by Cooper.

  Q: But wasn't Cooper supposed to be dead?

  A: No.  The idea was to incapacitate him.  The assailant knew
     Cooper was wearing a bulletproof vest.  If it hadn't been for
     the tick, he wouldn't have been seriously wounded.

  Q: Who shot Cooper? 

  A: It had to be somebody who knew about the vest, which would
     suggest a participant in the stakeout.  Harry Truman is a 
     good suspect because (1) He just seemed to have too much
     emotion when he asked Cooper if he got a good look at the
     gunperson. (2) He seemed to be reaching for his gun in the
     scene where he rushes out of Leo's apartment to see Andy and
     Albert.

     Unfortunately, Harry Truman seems well over the 5 feet 10
     Albert specifies as the gunperson's maximum height.  The
     same applies to Ed Hurley and Hawk.  Andy was on the phone.

     Maybe I'm overlooking somebody, but Josie, acting on in-
     structions from Harry, is the best I can think of.  Lucy
     is another possibility, but I can't think of any motive.

       AND DON'T FORGET TO BUY THESE FINE TWIN PEAKS PRODUCTS

            Plastic Wrap
            Camcorders (with zoom-in features available nowhere else)
            Ledger books (two for one special)
            Cotton balls
            Twine
            Percolators (makes DAMN good stuff--- and we don't mean coffee) 
            Ear plugs

In article <1990Oct4.013458.16639@supernet.haus.com> cluther@supernet.haus.com (Clay Luther) writes:
<
<Yes, the giant's voice did fade in and out, in regular intervals, and in
<three volume states.  He would be loud for about a second, normal for about
<a second, quiet for a second, normal, and loud again, until he stopped 
<talking.                                

Not here.  The giant's voice stayed at the same volume throughout.
I suspect the fade in/out effect had something to do with the surround
encoding.  Maybe it tricked some cable boxes into raising/lowering the
volume. 

Jan BielawskiInternet:jbielawski@ucsd.edu
Bitnet:jbielawski@ucsd.bitnet
Dept. of MathUUCP:jbielawski@ucsd.uucp
UCSD  ( {ucsd,sdcsvax}!{igrad1,sdcc6}!ma299ai )

In article <1078@ria.ccs.uwo.ca> hekunze@watmsg.uwaterloo.ca (Herb Kunze) writes:
 <something i shouldn't have cut that describes the similarity of
killer bob's entering the doorway at a run, and the doorway
to the hospital>

> >Finally, in watching this scene several times and before noticing the
> >doorway thing, I was almost ready to believe that "killer" BOB came
> >running to the train-car *after* Laura had reached the point of no
> >return and tried in vain to keep her alive!  All his screaming seems
> >to be heavily laced with grief and those pounding down motions may
> >actually be attempts to keep her heart beating.  My roommates seem
> >to like this idea anyway.

whack!  something just came to me, and i'm feeling kind of dense
because of it. 

what if jacques' brother is the man we see as BOB?  he may have been
pretty looney (everyone else is...), and may have been in love with laura.
he may also have been responsible for the fire in the woods that killed
the log lady's husband, so we have a fire connection.  presumeably he
would have been pissed that laura was dead--may have taken his fury out on
something or someone (jacques's blood on leo's jacket?) 

he could have written "FIRE WALK WITH ME" in his own blood.

it would fit well with the blood-typing being identical to jacques',
siblings often are of the same blood type.

cooper has definitely not followed up on jacques' brother. forgot?
the giant has only provided some pretty general clues.

leo could have killed him in self defense, or for "business" reasons, or
to shut him up.

no one has seen his body except for leo (i'll stick to my theory that
the giant's quote suggest only that three people may have seen him,
and that one person has actually seen his body and is now ready to talk--
leo?)  damn, i liked my theory about bob lydecker, and the one armed man
(a dream, but not a vision?).  the three could have been leo, ronnette,
and laura (jacques was unconscious).

three men in the woods.

assume that most of what we see are visions of BOB, but that ronnette
may be having both a vision and a dream (hence we see him running in
through the hospital entrance--he's dead, but ronnette is dreaming that
he's coming to get her--and sees him running in through the last thing
she remembers before going into a coma: the hospital entrance).

if this is it, somebody damn well better buy me a cherry pie and a cup
of coffee.

sure there's a lot more going around in twin peaks, lynch has us chasing
some mighty agile owls...uh...geese.  lynch has buried the clues as deep
as he possibly can (and jacques' brother too).

~spass
--
spass otto stoiantschewsky"i shot agent cooper"
put this subject in your kill file

ceblair@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Charles Blair) writes:


> >  Q: Why was the person who shot Cooper wearing a mask?

> >  A: Because he or she did not want to be identified by Cooper.

> >  Q: But wasn't Cooper supposed to be dead?

> >  A: No.  The idea was to incapacitate him.  The assailant knew
> >     Cooper was wearing a bulletproof vest.  If it hadn't been for
> >     the tick, he wouldn't have been seriously wounded.

These are both pretty far fetched.  End of a hard day, Coop goes
back to his hotel room, he may be a straight arrow, but probably
doesn't sleep in his vest.  How could the guy be sure that 
he would have the vest on when he opened the door.  What would
he do if he didn't say pardon me I didn't want to kill you so
I'll just put my gun away and be going.

He wore the mask because you don't know what will happen when
the door opens.  What if Coopers in the john and Audrey opens
the door, what if Cooper opens the door and Audrey is in the
sack looking at the door....  He had to be prepared to kill
Cooper when the door opened.

Some interesting things:

Maddy's full name anagrams to: FIRE SONG MEAN DUEL  (with no leftover letters)

hmmm.

The log lady said the fish aren't running.  Pete found a fish in his 
coffee pot.  I know, it's stretching.

Music (SONG) (as well as FIRE) has a lot to do with things.  Lynch has
said in the past that "Music is a way to transmit thoughts and
energy without words."  Opening theme.  Music playing in Leos cabin.
The dream-dwarf says "... and there's always music in the air."  

Just what was the Roman statue in the MIDDLE of the dream-room?

Is it too obvious or do the two letters found under the girls
fingernails (T and R) remind you of harry s. TRuman?

The Chicago broadcast had some nasty audio drop-outs, and one came
when the Asian man was on the phone.  I heard all of what he said
to Truman, but nothing of his second phone call.  Can someone
post a transcription (even if approximate)?

Greg

The published form of the song that Leland sang is written out
phonetically.  The title is "Mairzy Doats", and the words in
the sheet music are spelled like this:

Mairzy Doata and Dozy Doats
And little lambzy divy!
A kiddledy divy too, wouldn't you?

Greg Sandell

In article <3976.2708bcaa@wums2.wustl.edu> smith_c@wums2.wustl.edu writes:
> >   Other comments I have about the new season include Maddy's vision about 
> >the carpet in the living room at the Palmer's home.  Could it be her vision
> >is telling her that Killer Bob (or is it BOB) is living/had lived in the
> >Palmer basement.  I would like to see somebody go down there and check it 
> >out.  Just thinking out loud.  What do people on the net think?
> >
> >                                                 Todd

i ain't gonna go down there, nope, nope, nope, not without a BIG gun...

actually, i just remembered some things some of my friends said while
watching twin peaks for the first time.  i though you might enjoy them.

"hospital?  god, i hope they don't show any hospital food...uk! even
worse than the stuff we have"
(they are a physician and a nurse...)

"look's like it's all the same processed stuff with different types
of food coloring"

"so why is donna sitting on her hands?"
(the leland dinner--"sometimes my elbows bend back"?)

"hey, look they're eating hospital food!!!"
(the leland dinner---?????  I haven't got a vcr!!!)

~spass
--
spass otto stoiantschewsky"i shot agent cooper"
put this subject in your kill file

In article <1990Oct2.182856.7107@cbnewsi.att.com> jogle@cbnewsi.att.com (jogle) writes:
> >
> >Actaully, Laura Palmer, Jacque Renoi, and Josie's husband were all
> >killed by....
> >
> >The Eveready Bunny!
> >
> >He keeps going...and going...and going....
> >

this is funny! i agree....it keeps going...going...


--
Harish Dindigal                               Email: dindigal@rodan.acs.syr.edu
152 Oakland St. #2                            Phone: (315)-475-5856   
Syracuse NY 13210

Everyone seems to think that the giant said:

"One has seen the third man [...]
 One only, known to you, ready now to talk."

I heard it as:
"One only, known to you.
 Ready now, to talk?"

Cooper nods. The giant had previously told him not to talk, but to listen.
I thought the giant was telling him that the time was right to talk. Of
course, Cooper doesn't say anything, but since when have dream sequences
ever made logical sense?

---------- Ryan Mathews
"If Star Trek fans are Trekkies, does that make us Peakies?"
-- Internet : mathews@cs.buffalo.edu Bitnet : mathews@sunybcs UUCP :{apple,cornell,decwrl,harvard,rutgers,talcott,ucbvax,uunet}! cs.buffalo.edu!mathews

In article <1990Oct3.214531.33892@eagle.wesleyan.edu> ggrosz@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
> >
> >Is there someone out there from TP Headquarters reading this net?
> >
> >If so (and I've got to believe that there is), why not introduce
> >yourself to the rest of us?  PLEEEEEEEASE?
> >

Nope.  Nobody here but us owls.