Season 2, Episode 01: May the Giant Be with You — September 30–October 05, 1990

Speaking about glasses, coke freaks tend to walk around with extremely
dark sunglasses (the sunlight is just too bright for the eyes after a 
long night), so do you suppose that Donna has been playing in the snow?

Something to think about while we all wonder about the changes going
on...

DAMN FINE CONCLUSION TO EPISODE 2.0 Couldn't sleep for an hour...
 OR


contents copyright (c) 1990 Oleg Rovner and may not be quoted and/or
distributed without permission except by/on USENET and /dev/null
**********************************************************************
"Tommy Lasorda may not be a typical SlimFast user" SlimFast disclaimer

To the above question, I HAVE to say NO!  In fact, I could have gone
another hour or two Sun nite!

While others seem disturbed by the opening 30 minutes or so, I personally
sat that and laughed, hooted, dug an elbow into my wife's side (yeah,
she probably hates that, but I mean, come on now), etc.  Why did I
enjoy it so much?  Was it the anticipation?  Was it the humor?  Was it
the strangeness?  I am not sure.  All I know is that I found the most of
the show funny, fascinating, horrifying, and bizarre.  I am disturbed by
Jerry, Ben and Leland's behaviors - they do not APPEAR to be all there.
I mean, that dancing and singing?  But music and dancing have appeared in
quite a few episodes as integral to the plot - Leland's ghost dancing over
several episodes, including the country club scene.  The dancing and
singing at Jacque's bar.  The concert at the Haywards.  Interesting.
--
Larry W. Virden
Business: UUCP: osu-cis!chemabs!lwv27  INET: lwv27%cas.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.Edu
Personal: 674 Falls Place,   Reynoldsburg,OH 43068-1614
Proline: lvirden@pro-tcc.cts.com  America Online: lvirden CIS: [75046,606]

In article <951@sppy00.UUCP>, www@sppy00.UUCP (Victor Shakapopolis) writes...

} I found the Giant rather interesting. I loved it when he re-appeared
} and mentioned that he forgot to tell Cooper something.  These
} supernatural-beings-from-another-realm are only human right? :-)

Yes, I thought it was a nice touch that in the midst of all of this mystic
mumbo jumbo, the Giant had a few down-to-Earth touches. Not only forgetting
to tell Cooper something, but apologizing to Cooper for waking him up, and
observing that Cooper "*will* require medical attention".

} Well I kind of like this [supernatural] angle. There is something *very*
} wrong with Twin Peaks. Cooper is weird enough to deal with it, what about
} Albert?

Probably not most people. Hawk might be able to deal with it, as he seems
keep an open mind about the preternatural, it being part and parcel of his
ancestral beliefs. It'd be nice if they played Hawk up some. I really like
the character, and feel he's got too short a shrift.

And, of course, there's the Log Lady.

} Another poster mentioned Donna's hair growth, I wonder if this is
} intentional (opposed to the idea that the actress just wanted to grow
} it out), along with the cigarettes [...]

As I understand it, Boyle smokes like a chimney, and apparently would
go bananas during shoots when she wasn't able to have a drag while doing
a scene. Perhaps Donna's cigarette smoking was done to accomodate her,
on top of showing something weird happening with Donna.

}} I *think* we can ignore Major Briggs' vision.

} Maybe this was to illustrate that not *all* of the visions in Twin Peaks
} are horrible or sad.  (Giant - or whatever he represents - influence?).

Could be. I think that Briggs' vision is significant in establishing some
change in the relationship between him and Bobby. When I said that we can
ignore it, I meant in terms of the overall scheme of things. We have no
indication that it's on the same level as the visions/dreams of the other
characters. For one, we are only told about it by the Major, we don't
actually see it for ourselves, as we have with the others.

-- "Diane, 9 AM. Preparing to board Flight 210. Commuter flight, 15 seater. Arriving in Spokane 10:15 AM. One meal: breakfast. Eggs, sausage, toast, jam, juice, and the usual coffee-scented hot water. What airlines do to coffee shouldn't happen to a dog." --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA) UUCP: ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian ARPA: boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM

Speaking of good old Duluth, did you ever read Gore Vidal's "Duluth" ?
Weird stuff, sort of like "Twin Peaks"

saustin@bbn.com (Steve Austin) writes:


|I had a dream that Donna Hayward (or one of her family) is Laura's
|killer. The reason for this is Donna is the only major(ish)
|character who does not appear to be screwed up in any way and
|who appears to be a nice well-ballanced person.

Perhaps nice and well-balanced was the case in last 'season's'
episodes, but in the opening episode this 'season' she appears to be
quite different - in her dress (her clothes, or Laura's), hair,
smoking, etc. - and in wearing Laura's glasses - is she trying to be
Laura?

In article <jgp.654853622@rutabaga> jgp@rutabaga.Rational.COM (Jim Pellmann) writes:

   - In Maddy's dream/vision, did she see blood or fire spreading on the
     carpet? 
     Since they cut to a fireplace scene, I would assume it was fire.

I also think it was fire, given the way/speed it moved...if it had been
blood, it probably would have crept more or spattered.

Muffy
muffy@mica.berkeley.edu

In article <1990Oct2.031759.20141@alembic.acs.com> csu@alembic.acs.com (Dave Mack) writes:
> >In article <12890@sdcc6.ucsd.edu> enomura@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (She's dead...) writes:

[Why didn't Piper Laurie get a credit?}

> >Come now. She wasn't in this episode so she didn't get a credit, any
> >more than Miguel Ferrer was credited in the episodes he wasn't in.
> >
> >Don't mean a thang.

OK, I won't.  But Joan Chen and Eric Da Re both were in the credits,
and they didn't show either.

-- Rod Johnson * rjohnson@vela.acs.oakland.edu * (313) 650 2315 "Dogs bark at strangers" -- Heraclitus

In article <3481@dptg.ATT.COM>, rkh@dptg.ATT.COM (Robert Halloran) writes:
>> > >In article <0093D856.29A2F940@robot.nuceng.ufl.edu>, carl@robot.nuceng.ufl.edu (Drifter...) writes:
>> > >|>   - Cooper lying on his back still, talking to Diane (via recorder). "If
>> > >|> you can just forget the fear..." Puzzled expression, as if the phrase were
>> > >|> familiar. That one took a moment to sink in but was worth it.

> > Lynch was responsible for the film of (sort of) Frank Herbert's DUNE.
> > As I recall, McLachlan played the role of Paul Atriedes.  One of the
> > mental disciplines trained into the character by his Bene Gesserit tutors
> > was the control of fear ("Fear is the mind-killer....").  Hence the
> > connection to Cooper's comments....


If you watch the final credits of the TP second season opener,
you'll notice that the girl who played the youngest Hayward
daughter is the same girl who played Paul Atriedes' little
sister in _Dune_.  Her name is Alicia Witt.


E-mail: ereynolds@encore.com

In article <1990Oct2.031759.20141@alembic.acs.com>, csu@alembic.acs.com (Dave
Mack) says:
> >
> >In article <12890@sdcc6.ucsd.edu> enomura@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (She's dead...)
> >writes:
>> >>Was it just me or was "Piper Laurie as Catherine Martell" not in the opening
>> >>credits? Does this mean she died in the fire - not in hiding somewhere,
>> >>recovering, and planning a revenge?
> >
> >Come now. She wasn't in this episode so she didn't get a credit, any
> >more than Miguel Ferrer was credited in the episodes he wasn't in.
> >
> >Don't mean a thang.
> >
Then tell me why Joan Chen did appear in the credits?  Catherine may not
be dead, but she certainly isn't a regular anymore.  (Unless, of course
Lynch/Frost are jerking us around with the credits... and I would not
put it past them.)
            Scott Schnackenberg

In article <20239@ttidca.TTI.COM> paulb@harley.TTI.COM (Paul Blumstein) writes:
> >The actor who played the giant reminded me of the actor the played
> >Mr. Homm (Carel Struycken) on a few ST:TNG episodes.  Did anyone catch
> >the credits & notice whether they were the same actor?


I thought he was also the servant/butler to Jack Nicholson in "The Witches
of Eastwick"  but I don't remember the actor's name.  Same guy?


-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ******************************************************************************* Sandra Vavrinek

What about the Log Lady and her gum?  
Was it that gum that was supposed to come back in style?  
Why was she sitting there?  
Was she watching Maddie(Laura) and Donna?  
What else has her log seen?  
Is her log relieved it was not in the mill fire?  
Is Catherine dead?  
Was Piper Laurie's name in the opening credits?  
Did the mysterous Asian man looking for Josie shoot Cooper?  
Is Lucy keeping the baby?  
Is Ronette dead? (sure, next week's previews had a voice-over saying
that she was ready to talk, but she looked deader 'n a doornail to me...)
Why did Maddie (Laura) crunch her glasses at the same time Donna turned
into a slut-puppy?
Why did Donna want Laura(Maddie)'s sunglasses?
When are we supposed to see Diane?
Did Hank actually see Bobby when he shot Leo?
Why didn't we see Leo at all?
Why doesn't someone belt Arnold in the teeth again?
Why was Arnold sent back?
Why would Maddie(Laura!) have a vision of blood on the floor?
Wasn't she in the same place that Laura's mother saw her vision of the
mystery man (who we now know killed Laura)?

-djk

  1.  Why would whoever shot Cooper bother wearing a mask?

  2. I wonder how Nadine's being a crack shot will be relevant later.

  3.  Somebody else pointed out Josie's leaving town right after the mill
burns down doesn't make sense (attracting unwelcome attention).
  I THINK CATHARINE GOT TO HER AFTER ESCAPING FROM THE MILL AND JOSIE IS NOT
MAKING HER OWN DECISIONS.

In article <1990Oct2.031759.20141@alembic.acs.com> csu@alembic.acs.com (Dave Mack) writes:
> >In article <12890@sdcc6.ucsd.edu> enomura@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (She's dead...) writes:
>> >>Was it just me or was "Piper Laurie as Catherine Martell" not in the opening
>> >>credits? Does this mean she died in the fire - not in hiding somewhere, 
>> >>recovering, and planning a revenge?
> >
> >Come now. She wasn't in this episode so she didn't get a credit, any
> >more than Miguel Ferrer was credited in the episodes he wasn't in.
> >
> >Don't mean a thang.

Ah, but Joan Chen DID receive a credit, and she didn't appear in the
premiere.

I thought Ms. Laurie's omission was odd also.

--
Mark Vita                                  vita@sunny.dab.ge.com
Advanced Engineering
GE Simulation and Control Systems
Daytona Beach, FL

.-.
|D|on't have a cow, man!  (Oops, wrong alt.tv.newsgroup.)  If
| | you're watching it just to find out who killed Laura, you're
`-' missing a lot of great stuff!
    <_Jym_>

Isn't it kind of odd that Maddy sees things now with her glasses on, so she
breaks them.
Donna, on the other hand, has changed personalities now that she is wearing
Laura's glasses.  There must be something with these two clues.


bud

 I am wondering about a couple of things.

1) I think it was Cooper who said that they had found evidence of a third
man around a window at the cabin in the woods where Laura and Ronette
were taken. What was this evidence?

2) Leo supposedly left the cabin after they were done with the girls,
and Jacques had passed out. Where did Leo go when he left, and how did
the third man get two tied-up grown women to the railroad car by himself?

3) Do we know yet who the shadowy figure is who was with Leo in the woods
when he met Bobby and Mike?

4) Could someone send me the recent posting of the Grateful Dead song
that contained the line "Sometimes my arms bend back"...

Thank you

Jeff Kouba
Dept. of Physics and Astronomy
University of Iowa
INET: jak@ceres.physics.uiowa.edu

In article <1990Oct2.031759.20141@alembic.acs.com> csu@alembic.acs.com (Dave Mack) writes:
> >In article <12890@sdcc6.ucsd.edu> enomura@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (She's dead...) writes:
>> >>Was it just me or was "Piper Laurie as Catherine Martell" not in the opening
>> >>credits? Does this mean she died in the fire - not in hiding somewhere, 
>> >>recovering, and planning a revenge?
> >
> >Come now. She wasn't in this episode so she didn't get a credit, any
> >more than Miguel Ferrer was credited in the episodes he wasn't in.

Eric Da Re was credited in the opening but wasn't in the episode.

> >
> >Don't mean a thang.

Right.  So what.  Forget about the credits.  There are more important things to
worry about... like ... how did Lucy know that Cooper liked Jelly donuts
before he knew that she set them up every night?  :-)  Just kidding!
It's not relevant.  I still can't decide between Leland Ben and Ronnette
as the killer.  ( I liked the theory that Bob=Laura and Ronnette killed
Laura/bob in self defense.)



-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ******************************************************************************* Sandra Vavrinek

In article <1990Oct1.040811.33741@eagle.wesleyan.edu> hweibel@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
 (some stuff deleted)

> >And to go even further... The mystical force could have used Laura as a "host"
> >-- (in the way Redjac did in the Star Trek episode "Wolf in the Fold") --
> >choosing her because she had a tortured, fragmented psyche that it could easily
> >infiltrate.  Perhaps this force has now passed on to Donna.
> >
> >(Ok... one problem with this theory is the question "Why would BOB murder his
> >host?"  Oh well....)
> >

What if BOB didn't intend to murder Laura.  Maybe he was planning to prepare
her for some traveling of his type and she passed out from too much drugs.
He (BOB that is) attempted to revive her and in a fit of anger and frustration
he started pounding her against the floor.  Out she goes!



I doubt it too.


bud

In article <12889@accuvax.nwu.edu> sandell@ferret.ils.nwu.edu (Greg Sandell) writes:
> >Close to the end of the scene, there is a long pan down Ronette's body, 
> >(i.e., Ronette in the railcar, not lying in the hospital bed) from head 
> >down to belly.  You hear a heavy breathing sound, with a slight mixture
> >of moaning, such as a person makes when they're falling asleep.  But
> >this not a human moan, it the moan of some very large beast.  The
> >camera pans up to what we must assume is Bob's hand...but what is his
> >hand resting on...?  It *looks* like the giant snout of an animal,
> >and the damn thing shudders in time to the breathing!  

To me, it looks the thing his hand is resting on is his (left) knee.
He is squatting down over the body with his hands on his knees.

> >p.s. Someone mentioned being able to see Leland's face in the Railcar.
> >I've freeze-framed through every frame in that scene, and I don't know
> >what he's talking about.  A few frames do catch Bob's face in a strange
> >way, but nothing like Leland's face.

I agree; I also don't see any real resemblance between these (or any)
images of Bob and any of the other characters on the show.  As well I
shouldn't, since they are obviously played by different actors.

<inews fodder>
<inews fodder>
<inews fodder>
<inews fodder>
<inews fodder>
<inews fodder>

--
Mark Vita                                  vita@sunny.dab.ge.com
Advanced Engineering
GE Simulation and Control Systems
Daytona Beach, FL

After reading posts saying that BOB looked a bit like Leland (or Albert!)
I went through the final scene of the pilot at slow speeds varying from
1/4 speed to frame-by-frame and have some interesting results.  

First off, BOB looks exactly like Frank Silva, the actor who has always
played BOB.  I found no real resemblance to any other TP character.

Second, and perhaps more strange and perhaps even interesting, I noticed
something amidst the superposed images at the beginning of Ronnette's
flashback.  I ran the VCR in slow-motion from the moment the railway
car appears on screen.  If you recall, the first interior scene has
BOB squatting on the floor next to Laura's prone body.  There's a flash
of light and then a sequence of BOB running towards the viewer is
superposed on the railway interior, ending in a flash as BOB snaps  
his mouth shut.  In the slow-motion mode (or better yet, frame-by-frame)
you can see that the running image of BOB is running through a doorway 
with a wood frame and you can even make out the shape of objects on the
wall coming off the doorway.  If you rewind the tape a mere minute or
two to the point when we first enter the hospital for this scene, there
is a shot down the main hallway in the hospital (that leads into other
hallway shots).  The framed doorway in that hospital shot, complete
with neighbouring walls and fixtures is the same doorway that BOB
comes running through in Ronnette's dream.  Jeez, I didn't think that
an explanation of this would be so complicated - I guess you'll just
have to try it if you can; it'll be difficult without special effects
on your VCR.  What does this mean?  I'm not sure.  Any ideas?  Right
after BOB's mouth snaps shut, we return to the scream-filled innards
of the train-car.

Finally, in watching this scene several times and before noticing the
doorway thing, I was almost ready to believe that "killer" BOB came
running to the train-car *after* Laura had reached the point of no
return and tried in vain to keep her alive!  All his screaming seems
to be heavily laced with grief and those pounding down motions may
actually be attempts to keep her heart beating.  My roommates seem
to like this idea anyway.

Hopefully we'll get some clues on this on Saturday.  But in the mean
time, does anybody have any insight?

                                                          Herb...

I have a theory about the giant (and a lot else what
has transpired!).  The giant is an alien.  Laura, Ronette,
the girl murdered earlier, are all abductions.  Cooper is
an alien, too, only he doesn't know it (the question is,
Where have you gone?).  Any takers?

-- Gary Knight Technology Strategy Section MCC gary@mcc.com 3500 W. Balcones Center Dr. phone 512/338-3694 Austin TX 78759-6509 fax 512/338-3898

There is much arguing about who the murderer is (and indeed if Laura
is actually dead).   It appears to me that one of the reasons
I am so impressed by Mr. Lynch is that arguments like these are
next to pointless since there are so many curves thrown in.  I just
want to enjoy the _journey_ to the answer.
Thus excuse me if I skip the articles with headings like Leland Killed
Laura.
Mikaeli]

In article <1077@ria.ccs.uwo.ca> hekunze@watmsg.uwaterloo.ca (Herb Kunze) writes:
> >One final note about something that is really confusing me...
> >Doc Hayward definitely says that the blood type on the shirt is AB-negative,
> >and after following up Coop's intuition confirms that Jacques has that type.
> >Yet, when Coop recaps the events of the evening of Laura's death, he says
> >that the "Fire...Walk With Me" scribbling and the blood stained rag that 
> >Hawk found are both type AB-negative, a rare type different from Leo,
> >Jacques, Laura and Ronnette.  What gives?

Maybe that's what Coop forgot.  Or perhaps Doc Hayward is lying!

-- Scott Amspoker Basis International, Albuquerque, NM (505) 345-5232 unmvax.cs.unm.edu!bbx!bbxsda!scott

In article <460@kaos.MATH.UCLA.EDU> sherman@math.ucla.edu (William Sherman) writes:
> >-) Yes, Jacques' death IS being investigated.  Cooper and Truman asked
> >Jacoby whether he saw anything.  No, but he smelled engine oil.  Anybody
> >know why Leland should smell like a service station?

How about Big Ed?

> >I'm glad we found out about how Nadine lost her eye.

I didn't tape SNL last week but I seem to recall that Nadine in the
Twin Peaks skit had the eye patch on the wrong eye.  :-)


-- Scott Amspoker Basis International, Albuquerque, NM (505) 345-5232 unmvax.cs.unm.edu!bbx!bbxsda!scott

In article <87248@aerospace.AERO.ORG> huebner@sunpoison.UUCP (Robert E. Huebner) writes:
> >I feel there are too many clues indicating that the giant WAS real...
> >                                                       ...Seems like 
> >Lynch is using every device short of a "swift kick to the head" to show
> >that the Giant is a physical presence.  

Lynch is probably trying to make us believe that BOB may also be capable
of materializing and murdering instead of merely existing in someone's
mind.  I'm don't think I'm going to buy into that.

-- Scott Amspoker Basis International, Albuquerque, NM (505) 345-5232 unmvax.cs.unm.edu!bbx!bbxsda!scott

In article <1078@ria.ccs.uwo.ca> hekunze@watmsg.uwaterloo.ca (Herb Kunze) writes:
> >
> >hallway shots).  The framed doorway in that hospital shot, complete
> >with neighbouring walls and fixtures is the same doorway that BOB
> >comes running through in Ronnette's dream.  Jeez, I didn't think that
> >                                                          Herb...

In my mind, this would imply that (1) Killer Bob is Bob L., who
lost so much AB- Blood that he had to go to the hospital
where one arm mike visits him, or (2) KB is Doc H, who is the
only male character on the show who is sufficiently dull
to get rid of.

In article <1990Oct1.170438.26919@athena.mit.edu> dot@athena.mit.edu writes:
> >In article <0093D856.29A2F940@robot.nuceng.ufl.edu>, carl@robot.nuceng.ufl.edu (Drifter...) writes:
> >|>  
> >|>   - Cooper lying on his back still, talking to Diane (via recorder). "If
> >|> you can just forget the fear..." Puzzled expression, as if the phrase were
> >|> familiar. That one took a moment to sink in but was worth it.
> >|>  
> >
> >*Sigh* Another instance of something in Twin Peaks that went straight over my head.  I've never sure when something happens if it means anything or if it's just a Lynchism.  Was I supposed to get this?
> >



Fear is the Mind Killer...




--Kirkl







<SPIT> "Excuse me.  DAMN! that's good coffee.  And, HOT! too."
- Federal Bureau of Investigation Special Agent Dale Cooper

In article <1990Oct2.150235.24311@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> ceblair@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Charles Blair) writes:
> >  1.  Why would whoever shot Cooper bother wearing a mask?

Good Question!  I wondered that myself!  Could it be so that no one ELSE
would recognize him and later say "I saw So-and-so standing outside 
Coopers room about that time." ?

> >
> >  2. I wonder how Nadine's being a crack shot will be relevant later.

Maybe Nadine will eventually come out of her coma and save the Town! :-)

> >
> >  3.  Somebody else pointed out Josie's leaving town right after the mill
> >burns down doesn't make sense (attracting unwelcome attention).
> >  I THINK CATHARINE GOT TO HER AFTER ESCAPING FROM THE MILL AND JOSIE IS NOT
> >MAKING HER OWN DECISIONS.
> >

I dunno!  I think both theories make perfect sense.  Regardless of whether
Josie has been laying low or has met with foul play, anyone trying to pin
the fire on Josie would set the mill ablaze the same night she left, just
to make it look suspicious.  Josie is expecting everyone to blame it on
Leo and Catherine because she has been conspiring with Ben and Leo.  She
might just as well think ahead enough to make it look like Catherine waited
for her to leave town before setting fire to the mill.  Obviously she
told Hank she was putting some distance between her and the smell of
smoke, so her disappearance was planned to some extent.  Truman has only
been seening her for about 6 months or so (according to what he told
Cooper).  That doesn't necessarily mean long enough to establish a pattern
if she has only "gone shopping" once, three months prior.  Truman wouldn't
be aware of her tri-monthly habits, thus his question to Pete.  NOW THE
REAL QUESTION...did Josie actually go to Seattle planning to come back
with a surprised look and an armload of shopping bags or did Catherine
escape the mill fire and catch up with Josie?  I think they both will
return at some point in time...

Did this make sense?


-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ******************************************************************************* Sandra Vavrinek

I hate to spoil some fun, but Josie had to go to Seattle because Joan
Chen's commitments to filmmaking in Hong Kong ran long.  It had been
reported that she couldn't make it back to the US in time for the
start of TP taping, and I was wondering what they would do--whether
she would be able to shoot a few quick scenes in time to be dropped
into episodes, or what.  For those unaware, Joan Chen is a very big
star in Chinese movies.  A Chinese (PRC) friend said of TP, "a famous
actress is in it"--that's all he knows about the show.

  I HAVE AN OBSERVATION AND WAS WONDERING  IF ANYONE ELSE THOUGHT IT
SIGNIFICANT.  REMEMBER WHEN COOP AND HST WERE QUESTIONING JACOBY IN THE
HOSPITAL ABOUT JAQUES EARLY DEMISE?  JACOBY SAID HE REMEMBERED A SMELL-
THEN COOP RESPONDS WITH " IN THE CASE OF STRANGULATION IT IS COMMON FOR
THE VICTIM TO VOID HIS BOWELS.'  WELL WASN'T JAQUES *SUFFOCATED*.
I DISTICTLY REMEMBER LELAND TAPING JAQUES HAND TO THE BED AND THEN HOLDING
A PILLOW OVER HIS FACE--

COMMENTS??

In article <12890@sdcc6.ucsd.edu> enomura@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (She's dead...) writes:
> >Was it just me or was "Piper Laurie as Catherine Martell" not in the opening
> >credits? Does this mean she died in the fire - not in hiding somewhere, 
> >recovering, and planning a revenge?
> >
> >ed


I would guess they didn't credit her because she wasn't in the episode.  Miguel (?)
Ferrar is only credited in the episodes he shows up in.   Also, Catherine has
to be alive, how did Shelly get out of the mill?

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Brian McClendon bam@rudedog.SGI.COM ...!uunet!sgi!rudedog!bam 415-335-1110
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Something just hit me when I read that.  (then again it may be nothing
who know with Lynch.)
Anyway "The owls are not what they seem" Ben and Jerry *Horne* as in
Horned Owls maybe.  They are in the woods, evil in the woods.  They (Ben
and Jerry) are not what they seem, respectable businessmen.
  
I don't know just a guess, any comments.

wendy-o

In article <460@kaos.MATH.UCLA.EDU> sherman@math.ucla.edu (William Sherman) writes:
> >-) Yes, Jacques' death IS being investigated.  Cooper and Truman asked
> >Jacoby whether he saw anything.  No, but he smelled engine oil.  Anybody
> >know why Leland should smell like a service station?

Big Ed ids the one who smells like a service station, but no he isn't a 
suspect because Nadine went to the hospital the same evening Jacques was 
killed, Nadine and Jacoby are both in the intensive care section, and Ed 
has been at the hospital all night with Nadine (probably pacing the halls 
and walking past Jacoby's room).  Jacoby was too sedated to know the exact 
time sequence events anyway.
> >
> >-) IMHO, the outline on the rug which Maddy saw was shaped like a body
> >wrapped in plastic.  It was lying on its left side, feet on the lower
> >right hand corner of the screen.  But then again, it's a Rorschach test,
> >and you will probably see something else.

The "ink blot" looked to me like the carpet burning.  I had a flash that this 
is fire trying to break through the carpet, just as BOB is trying to break 
into Madiliene's psyche and take control over her.  This is why she is so 
frightened by this objectively very obscure image; she is reacting in horror 
not to the image, but to BOB attacking her mind.  The fire is just a manifes-
tation of BOB.  The scorched carpet does not break into open flame--Maddy 
has retained control from BOB for the moment.

Maybe the burning carpet is an allusion to the opening sequence of Bonanza ;-)

-brad@chips.com

In article <1990Oct2.031759.20141@alembic.acs.com> csu@alembic.acs.com (Dave Mack) writes:
> >In article <12890@sdcc6.ucsd.edu> enomura@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (She's dead...) writes:
>> >>Was it just me or was "Piper Laurie as Catherine Martell" not in the opening
>> >>credits? (stuff deleted..)
> >Come now. She wasn't in this episode so she didn't get a credit, any
> > (more stuff deleted)
> >
> >Don't mean a thang.

Are you sure? Josie Packard is nowhere to be seen in the premiere episode
(not even in flashback, if I remember correctly), yet Joan Chen is credited
with the role of Jocelyn Packard in the premiere.

P.S. I absolutely *loved* the shot of the hayseed-type yelling "Damn, that
pie's GOOD!" that was used to open the first scene in the Double R. Priceless!
Also, who wolf-whistled at Donna when she entered the Sheriff's Department? 
I can't decide if it was actually supposed to be somebody in the Sheriff's
office that saw her come in, or it was just added in to accentuate Donna's
new personality.

In article <1990Oct2.083929.14175@world.std.com> katefans@world.std.com (Chris'n'Vickie of Chicago) writes:
> >[...]
> >How long have Harry & Josie been an item? I'd think he'd be aware that
> >she went to Seattle "every three months" to attend to business & shop.
> >[...]

Cooper asked Harry this question (in the scene from last season just before
they drank the "fishy" coffee) and Harry said "about six weeks."  If her trips
are "every three months" they wouldn't have been involved at the time of her
previous trip.

-- ====================================================================== | Germaine A. L'Eveque germaine@cs.columbia.edu (212) 854-8112 | | Academic Records Administrator, Computer Science Department | | Columbia University, 450-D Com.Sci.Bldg., New York, NY 10027 |

> > OK - I saw the butchered video of Twin Peaks (referred to as the
> > Euro-version?) on the weekend and I want to know - what rela-
> > tionship does it have to the TV series[?]
.-.
|I| haven't seen the Euro-version, but from what I've read in this
| | newsgroup, it's made up of portions of the TV series.  The
| | first two hours, I think, are the same two hours that comprise
| | the sereies' pilot movie.  The "25 years later" scene showed
`-' up as Cooper's dream in the second episode.
.-.
|T|he end of the Euro-version, in which the killer is found, has
| | not appeared in the TV series.  And it might not, since the
| | creators have said that the Euro-killer is not the same as
`-' the TV-killer.
.-.
|F|or more details, check out Jerry Boyajian's timeline.
`-' <_Jym_>

What is Audrey doing at One Eyed Jack's?




Blowing her own Horne!

--George
George Fink|  gfink@{clover,iris}.ucdavis.edu
University of California, Davis|  ucbvax!ucdavis!{clover,iris}!gfink

Actaully, Laura Palmer, Jacque Renoi, and Josie's husband were all
killed by....

The Eveready Bunny!

He keeps going...and going...and going....


-- -- jogle att!floyd!jogle jogle@floyd.att.com

In article <1990Oct2.015024.26389@cadence.com> phz@cadence.com (Pete Zakel) writes:
> >
> >Well, unlike my earlier speculation, I think the Ronette flashback at the
> >end of the show definately fingers "Killer BOB" as the killer!
> >

Don't forget that Ronette at that time was:
- probably drunk
- high on coke
- under the trauma of watching a close friend being killed.

So her flashback might be hallucination. I'd be really disapointed if
there really was a killer BOB living nearby, unknown to all.


A couple of unrelated thoughts:

If the first diary's purpose was to hide the 'bad' Laura, why on earth
did she put in it an enveloppe containing cocaine and the key to her
safe-deposit box (where 10K$ of cocaine money were to be found)??

On the 'Diane' tape we hear the entry Cooper did when he was lying on
the floor after being shot. So he had pressed (inadvertently) the
auto-record button. The discussion with the giant is not on the tape,
so it possibly never took place. The discussion with the room-service
guy is not to be heard either. Either this is an error, or it means
that cooper edited the tape before sending it out to Diane (which would
be odd).

Cooper recorded Waldo using his own voice-activated hand-recorder (or
so I remember it). When they played it back we hear: lucy feeding the
bird, the bird talking, the gunshots. On the 'Diane' tape, we hear
Cooper say "Diane, what you're going to hear is most interesting" and
then we hear the bird talking, which could mean that after all he's
been editing the tape before sending it to Diane.

In an interview with Rolling Stone, Kyle Maclachlan (agent Cooper)
mentions that he had just renewed his Twin Peaks contract for the next
5 seasons. Five more seasons of Twin Peaks !?

We had a close-up shot of the boot that was found along with Leo's
coke. Anyone else geting the feeling that the one armed man is going to
have boots/shoes of the same model in his briefcase?? Maybe another red
herring!

That's about it.

Mario
"The fishes aren't running"

Another question has to do with the one-armed man's connection.  In
the scene at the Johnson's house where Andy *bonks* himself with the
board, Cooper and Truman find a boot (among other things) underneath
the board.  Cooper turns the boot over and there's some sort of
markings; I assume this to be the manufacturer or something.  Does
anyone out there remember what it was?  Was it the brand of shoes that
the OAM sells?

--k

.-.
|M|addy had shades on at the funeral.  Coop saw her, but with the
`-' shades the resemblance isn't as obvious.
    <_Jym_>

       The giant was played by the same actor as Mr. Homm.

In article <9710@ur-cc.UUCP>, mclk@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Richard Pace) writes...
> > 
> >Has anybody else considered that Killer Bob may be the spirit of the 
> >Log Lady's dead husband (the one who was killed in a fire in the woods
> >on their wedding day)?
> > 
I think the spirit of the Log Lady's dead husband resides in the
log.  

DIARY SPOILER.  STOP NOW OR ELSE...
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
,
.
.
.
.
.
Doesn't the diary explain that the LL's husband was fighting a
fire in the woods when he fell and hit his head on the ground
(the log perhaps)?

The log "sees" things and "talks" to the LL.

What other explanation is there?

In article <Ub2_jAa00Uh7I0tOMl@andrew.cmu.edu> dk24+@andrew.cmu.edu (David Jason Kyle) writes:
> >What about the Log Lady and her gum?  
What about it?  She was chewing it.  Actually, it looked big enough to
be toffee or something.
> >Was it that gum that was supposed to come back in style?  
Several other posters seem to think so.
> >Why was she sitting there?  
She was having a cup of joe.
> >Was she watching Maddie(Laura) and Donna?  
Certainly.
> >What else has her log seen?  
The other side of the mountain.
> >Is her log relieved it was not in the mill fire?  
I know I would be.
> >Is Catherine dead?  
I don't think so.  I think she's in hiding, because she knows someone's
trying to kill her.
> >Was Piper Laurie's name in the opening credits?
No.  See the previous postings.
> >Did the mysterous Asian man looking for Josie shoot Cooper?  
I don't think so.  Why would he?
> >Is Lucy keeping the baby?  
I hope so.
> >Is Ronette dead? (sure, next week's previews had a voice-over saying
> >that she was ready to talk, but she looked deader 'n a doornail to me...)
No.  She's alive and kicking.
> >Why did Maddie (Laura) crunch her glasses at the same time Donna turned
> >into a slut-puppy?
See about a million previous postings.
> >Why did Donna want Laura(Maddie)'s sunglasses?
As a keepsake, I assume.
> >When are we supposed to see Diane?
Later.
> >Did Hank actually see Bobby when he shot Leo?
I doubt it.  It was dark, he was low, etc.
> >Why didn't we see Leo at all?
I wish we had.  Director's prerogative.  I was hoping for a quick shot
of him connected to several machines that go 'ping'.
> >Why doesn't someone belt Arnold in the teeth again?
You mean Albert?
> >Why was Arnold sent back?
Albert said why.  He's investigating Cooper's shooting.
> >Why would Maddie(Laura!) have a vision of blood on the floor?
Runs in the family (blood and ESP, that is)
> >Wasn't she in the same place that Laura's mother saw her vision of the
> >mystery man (who we now know killed Laura)?
No.  Sarah was on the couch.  Maddy was on an armchair.
> >-djk


 Bill Sherman sherman@math.ucla.edu
 ... then the ant got stepped on and the grasshopper drove to Florida
for the winter in his sports car.  - Muppet fables

The word that came most strongly to mind was "pathetic".  A few of the good
points remain: many of the characters are still interesting; the direction is
still top-notch; there are still lots of "good lines".  On the other hand:

-- Is it a murder mystery or isn't it?  In the later episodes of last season,
   they'd abandoned the murder mystery angle in favor of "surreal experience".
   Now the murder mystery seems to be back, with much desperate scurrying about
   in an attempt to get the plot on track again.  Sunday night, we saw several
   long-ago forgotten clues/characters dragged back into the story: BOB/Killer
   Bob, Mike (the shoe salesman/one-armed man), Theresa Banks, Ronette Pulaski,
   the whole train car setting, the Log Lady's clues (the owls, what she heard
   at her cabin), Sarah Palmer's visions (now Maddy's visions), the letters
   under the fingernails, and on and on.  New clues, or new twists on older
   clues, were casually tossed in: Hawk's having found evidence of a third man
   near Jacques Renault's cabin, Laura's apparent dual personalities, and her
   fondness for the "Fire" poem (both brought up by James, in his talk with 
   Truman).  Other, dead-end clues/characters/possibilities were tossed aside
   just as casually: Jacques Renault, Leo Johnson, Dr. Jacoby, the necklace.
   And, we my yet have Ronette Pulaski simply wake up and clear up everything
   in one fell swoop.  (I even wondered if Albert's extended explanation of his
   coming in from Seattle was intended partially to answer the old question
   about "How did Cooper get to Twin Peaks so soon after the murder?".)  This
   factor alone destroyed, for me, any possibility (such as it was) of enjoying
   the episode; it gave it an air of frantic desperation and near-panic that
   was at first amusing, and ultimately silly and tedious.
 
-- The tie-ins to the "Secret Diary of Laura Palmer" were getting obvious and
   tiresome.  The whole idea that "there's the normal diary, see, and then
   there's this SECRET diary" is ludicrous to begin with; the process of moving
   it into the rest of the Twin Peaks world has been, thus far, even worse.
   All of a sudden, for example, ideas like Laura's dual personality thing, and
   the whole BOB question, are being pushed hard; we also saw heavy-handed
   changes in Blackie's character in order to bring it in line with the Diary
   (i.e. she needed to become a heroin addict, and be interested in fooling
   around with her "girls").  The new Meals on Wheels angle is going to go
   nowhere but downhill....

-- Similarly, Cooper spent a lot more time talking to Diane this week.  Gotta
   sell those tapes....

-- The continuity errors still irk.  How many siblings does Donna have this
   week?  Will the half-heart be on a chain or a leather thong this week?
   Which tape will we hear this time?  (Yet another?  Why, if Cooper had
   memorized Leo Johnson's police record, as we saw last season, didn't he
   already know that Leo was in jail on the night of Theresa Banks' murder?)

-- They're starting to repeat ideas.  "Well, everyone *really* liked the dream
   sequence, so let's do another one!" "Yeah, and instead of a dwarf, we'll 
   have a, a, a giant this time!  Yeah, that's the ticket!"  Albert is another
   example; yes, it's a great trick, but he's still a one-trick pony.

-- The quirkiness and moodiness is no longer an integral part of the show; it's
   become forced.  It felt almost as if they produced an episode of a "normal"
   television show, then, as an afterthought, ran the whole thing through their
   patented "quirkiness and moodiness" post-processor.  Things like the opening
   scene with the room-service waiter, or the bit with Ben and Jerry dancing as
   Leland sings, bordered on the farcical (or the idiotic -- take your pick).

-- The emphasis of the show has undergone a subtle shift; "favorite" characters
   are starting to get a lot more screen time compared to the rest of the
   ensemble.  How long before it's reduced to little more than "The Dale and
   Audrey Show"?  (Does anyone else think that the character of Audrey has lost
   some of the "edge" she had last season?  In becoming "nice", she's had to
   give up much of what made her interesting to begin with.)

-- The supernatural angle is getting out of hand.  Is Cooper a crack detective
   or a mystic?  Once again, the show seems to have taken off in yet another
   new direction.

-- And, yes, it's STILL a soap opera.

Ultimately, I wonder if it's even *possible* for a week-after-week television
show format to be compatible with the sort of production that "Twin Peaks"
wanted (and wants) to be.  As a mini-series, it could have been a classic; as
it is, it continues to grow embarrassing.

--
Barbara Petersen
barb@velvet.com                           {uunet, decwrl}!sjsca4!velvet!barb
                              "Dial 888...."

> > Classic Lynch.  Find something weird, then stick with it until
> > it's beyond weirdness into discomfort into unbelievability into
> > a kind of sublimity.
.-.
|C|lassic Lynch indeed!  That scene made me feel exactly the way
| | I felt when I saw _Eraserhead_.  I couldn't quite say that
| | anything was happening, but I was on the edge of my seat the
`-' whole time.
.-.
|A|lso, I was aware the whole time that the would-be killer might
| | step back into the open door at any time.  But it was just the
`-' roomservice man again.  And then the giant.
.-.
|A|nd let's not forget the ominous shadow the giant cast on Coop
`-' when he appeared again!
    <_Jym_>

In article <jgp.654853622@rutabaga> jgp@rutabaga.Rational.COM (Jim Pellmann) writes:
> >
> >Many thoughts/comments/questions on the new episode:
[gobs and gobs of stuff deleted]
> >- As pointed out here last week by David Tuttle, we have a serious continuity
> >  error with the AB negative blood type of the third man.  Cooper says it is
> >  neither Laura's, Ronette's, Leo's, nor Jacques', yet in episode 5 when they
> >  are searching Jacques' apartment, Cooper surmises and Doc Hayward confirms
> >  that Jacques' blood type is AB negative.  Could this be the one thing Cooper
> >  forgot (according to the Giant)?  I don't think so.

Although I agree it was probably a serious continuity error, there is an
out.  Blood can be typed on more variables than the simple A, B, +, -, etc.
I forget the exact number, but there are enough sub-types to make blood a
fairly unique indicator.  Maybe when Cooper said the blood didn't match
Jacque's, he was basing it on the sub-types as well.  (Probably not planned
that way, but it helps me sleep at night).

huebner@aerospace.aero.org
The Aerospace Corporation

.-.
|I| think the best time to have read the diary is before the
| | second season premiere, simply because that's when it was
| | released.  Same for the "Diane" tape, though I haven't
`-' bought that one myself.
.-.
|I|t's not required reading, but it does provide a lot more
`-' depth.
    <_Jym_>

>> >> Whatever BOB is, it so terrified Laura that she wouldn't spell
>> >> it out, not even in the Secret Diary.
> >  Sure she does; it's a classic recursive acronym: Beware of BOB.
.-.
|E|ver try to "think through" a recursive acronym?  Your mind
| | loses track after about seven iterations and you're just
`-' left with a weird feeling.
.-.
|F|or BOB to just mean "Beware Of BOB" is a great way for Laura
| | to avoid dealing with who BOB really is (assuming that's
`-' what she is doing).
    <_Jym_>

> > I get the opinion that James is still a virgin *gasp* and also a
> > bit naive.  ( I can just imagine him asking Big Ed what he
> > should do next... )
.-.
|I| can just hear Big Ed warning him not to shoot out her eyeball
`-' on their first night . . .
    <_Jym_>

In article <15901@bfmny0.BFM.COM> tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM (Tom Neff) writes:
> >
> > * I know the cast has to get on with their lives between shooting
> >   seasons, but couldn't we have some semblance of continuity in a
> >   series whose action is still supposed to be taking place within days
> >   of the pilot?  If Fenn, MacLachlan, Ontkean, Beymer, Zabriskie,
> >   Ashbrook, Davis, Lipton et al. can look so convincingly back in
> >   character, why must we endure these radical appearance changes from
> >   (...) Jack Nance
> >   (have a nice time in St Barts, Jack?)...

I thought Pete's coloration was from his being in a big fire the previous
night.  Looks like a light burn to me.  Hair length and weight gain/loss
is one thing, but a change in skin coloration would *certainly* have
been fixed by the make-up folks.  Did James look a little heavier?

Okay, here's some other stuff for you all:

-> Lucy bought a new brooch!  Yay.  I like the old one, though.
Maybe it's a gift to "Punky" from her "Sweetie".

-> Bobby breaking down in 15 seconds of analysis is a little hard to
swallow.  It's not that easy, folks.  (note: this is not a reference
to the premiere.  sorry.)

-> "Leo locked in a hungry horse" was NOT one of the three 'predictions'.
Those were the bag, the owls, and the chemicals.  My guess is that the
chemicals will be about Leland explaining his hair: "Look at this!  It
changed color, without chemicals!" (points to head)

-> Leo was wearing the new boots when he torched the mill.  There are
two of them under the board.  He hid them because they would be evidence.

-> The One-Armed Man's full name is Phillip Michael Gerard.  Source:
"Diane...".

-> Besides the A/B/AB/O ± typing system for blood, there are several
other ways of distinguishing blood samples, including the MNO and Duffy
types.  So it's conceivable that two samples of AB- blood could be told
apart.  However, I still think it's a slip-up.

-> Harry's been seeing Josie for about 6 weeks, and therefore hasn't been
seeing her long enough to know about these shopping junkets to the coast.
At least, that's what Harry told Cooper.  How come we say 'Harry' and
'Cooper' rather than 'Truman' and/or 'Dale'?

-> Twins and duality:  I always regarded Cooper and Truman as a dual hero.
The show is certainly full of dualities, especially in characterizations.
Bobby/James, Donna/Audrey, Palmer/Hayward, Ben/Jerry, Hank/Leo,
Laura/Laura, Laura/Maddy, Andy/Hawk, etc. etc.  "Two men each, and we
don't know what to do with any of 'em"  - Norma to Shelly

-> Coop did 'meet' Maddy briefly, at the funeral.  But she had on shades.
(No, not THE SHADES.)

-> The Evil Shades remind me of a couple of old "Twilight Zone" episodes.
Maybe it's a dig at the other new night-time quasi-soap "Evening Shade"
with Burt Reynolds.

That's it.

Is it my imagination or are a lot of people posting to this newsgroup
with redundant articles?  There's a lot to talk about, with the new
season, so please (whomever it may concern) try to read the previous
articles and not repeat somebody else.

Thanks, sorry to bitch at everybody.  But over 100 articles a day!  Whew!



 Bill Sherman sherman@math.ucla.edu
 ... then the ant got stepped on and the grasshopper drove to Florida
for the winter in his sports car.  - Muppet fables

Since everyone is contributing their thoughts on the second season,
I might as well get my $.02 worth in. Rather than quoting a number
of folks directly, I'm just going to refer to several thoughts my
fellow posters have already explored.

1. The Giant - Him I like. I don't think he's a dream, in the same
way that the Dwarf was. Most dream-generated personalities don't
reappear. He's a force of some sort, IMHO, perhaps one of those
referred to by Hawk when he spoke to the Log Lady: "The woods hold
many spirits, don't they, Margaret?"

2. Albert's return - Albert was an asshole, but a hilariously funny
one. He actually seemed a bit nicer this time, probably because
no one was interfering with his work. But I did love it when
Andy told him off.

3. Andy and Lucy - the scene where they had to review the 
FleshWorld issues was the funniest one of the premiere.

4. New sides to Bobby and Audrey - I have to disagree with posters
that say Bobby and Audrey are suddenly turning to "good". Both
these characters HAVE good sides, and have shown them. Bobby was
very tender towards Shelley after Leo beat her last season, rather
than saying "It's your problem, honey." Lots of guys would have
ditched Shelley with a vengeful husband like Leo, but Bobby has
stuck it out. I believed his breakdown with Jacoby, and I thought
the scenes Sunday night with his father and Shelley were very 
well done.

Audrey has always been a good girl, y'all! Remember, she told
Donna that even though she didn't care much for Laura, she
loved her for the kind things she did for Johnny. And let's not
forget one of the best scenes of last season, with Audrey sobbing
for Leland's grief as Ben, Catherine, and the Icelanders made a 
mockery of that disturbed man.

5. New sides to Donna and Maddy - I feel a little vindicated after
my "Deadly Donna" postings :-). But I don't know if I believe that
Donna has been invaded by some evil force that possessed Laura.
I think Donna is wondering "just how far" did Laura go and con-
sidering if she wants to wander a little ways down that same,
unknown road. I think Donna is going to come into contact with
some major trouble in her investigation of "MEALS ON WHEELS".
This new erotic side to Donna is very interesting, though. I think
she actually scared James a little in the jail!

I don't think Maddy is becoming more "Lauraesque". I think she's
worn to a frazzle. She's, in the few days she's been in Twin Peaks,
been to her cousin's funeral; coped with a psychic aunt and a
psychotic uncle; impersonated her dead cousin; been stalked at a 
gazebo; listened to her cousin talk about her depravities on tape;
and apparently feels some responsibility toward Dr. Jacoby's heart
attack. Whew! Now to add to her problems, she's having those ol'
Palmer gals psychic visions. Maybe that's why she busted her glasses.
She'd prefer not to see what's going on.

As for her and Donna spending so much time together, it makes sense.
Donna's lost her best friend, who Maddy looks almost exactly like;
and Maddy doesn't really know anyone in town. I do think, however,
we have the makings of a prime romantic triangle in Donna-James-Maddy.

6. Catherine and Josie - IMHO, Catherine is dead. Josie is on her
alibi of a shopping trip. I'm not convinced the Hong Kong dudes 
there at the Great Northern are pals of Josie's.

7. Ronette's vision - well, my. This scared the crap out of one of
my friends watching the premiere. With all the cop and murder shows
on television, the American viewing public has become a little inured
to violent death. But this was absolutely the most compelling violent
scene I've ever seen on broadcast TV. But to me, it raised more
answers than questions. The scenes of Laura screaming, with blood
in her teeth, were horrific. But I'm not convinced that Killer Bob
was hitting/striking/stabbing Laura. If memory serves, Will 
Hayward told Cooper and Harry that Laura bled to death, from
several small wounds, none of which alone were enough to kill her.
Is Bob beating Ronette in her vision? Does that mean that who-
ever killed Laura is the same person who beat Ronette into a coma?
Is it possible that Laura watched and screamed as Bob beat Ronette?
No easy answers at this point - now that Ronette is out of her coma,
answers hopefully will be provided.

Although the premiere got off to a painfully slow start ( I wanted
to kill the room-service waiter), Lynch really outdid himself.
Resolutions to most of the cliffhangers, returning some favorites
like Albert and Killer Bob :-), and interesting twists on main
characters. (Excuse me, I should say Lynch AND Frost outdid them-
selves).

Jeff Abbott
Disclaimer: I didn't shoot Dale Cooper, and neither did my employer.
abbott@mobius.aca.mcc.com

For god's sake, the man's name is 

            ALBERT ROSENFIELD
            ^^^^^^\
NOT "Arnold" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In article <3481@dptg.ATT.COM> rkh@dptg.ATT.COM (Robert Halloran) writes:
> >In article <1990Oct1.170438.26919@athena.mit.edu> dot@athena.mit.edu writes:
>> >>In article <0093D856.29A2F940@robot.nuceng.ufl.edu>, carl@robot.nuceng.ufl.edu (Drifter...) writes:
>> >>|>   - Cooper lying on his back still, talking to Diane (via recorder). "If
>> >>|> you can just forget the fear..." Puzzled expression, as if the phrase were
>> >>|> familiar. That one took a moment to sink in but was worth it.
>> >>
>> >>*Sigh* Another instance of something in Twin Peaks that went straight over my head.  I've never sure when something happens if it means anything or if it's just a Lynchism.  Was I supposed to get this?
> >
> >Lynch was responsible for the film of (sort of) Frank Herbert's DUNE.
> >As I recall, McLachlan played the role of Paul Atriedes.  One of the
> >mental disciplines trained into the character by his Bene Gesserit tutors
> >was the control of fear ("Fear is the mind-killer....").  Hence the
> >connection to Cooper's comments....

Didn't Audrey slide her note under agent Cooper's door?
How did it end it underneath his bed?

Bernard Chang.

In every vision in Twin Peaks up to this point (Sarah, Cooper,
Ronette) the character dubbed "Killer Bob" has been evident.
But now, Maddy is having a vision of something (blood or fire,
as suggested already) creeping across the carpet. I think that this,
as well, relates to Killer Bob.

The only information we have from the show about Killer Bob is from
his brief speech and the One-Armed Man's monologue in Dale's dream.
I think the OAM's poem holds a clue:

"Through the darkness of future past
the magician longs to see
 One chance ours between two worlds
Fire, walk with me."

These visions, to me, suggest a link between the "normal" world
and the world of Killer Bob that seems to hover on the edge
of town. I think Maddy sees fire creeping across the carpet,
almost forming a path for her to walk upon. Perhaps the "one
chance" for these two worlds to connect was Laura Palmer.
Perhaps Maddy or Sarah offer another chance for a connection to
be made. Is there a "magician longing" for a chance to make
contact with  Maddy? Is Maddy receiving an invitation to this
world, in a path of fire she can walk along?  Did Laura, at
some point, receive a vision like this? James, remember,
received a similar invitation from Laura: "Do you want to play
with fire, little boy? Do you want to play with Bob?"

I just hope Killer Bob has no designs on Maddy. . .
Whatever the explanation, the visions are creepy. I don't know how
Maddy, Cooper, and Sarah sleep at night.

Comments?

Jeff Abbott
abbott@mobius.aca.mcc.com
Disclaimer: I never even SEEN Twin Peaks!

In article <3974.270881ad@wums2.wustl.edu>, trimpe_b@wums2.wustl.edu writes:
> >  JACOBY SAID HE REMEMBERED A SMELL-
> > THEN COOP RESPONDS WITH " IN THE CASE OF STRANGULATION IT IS COMMON FOR
> > THE VICTIM TO VOID HIS BOWELS.'  WELL WASN'T JAQUES *SUFFOCATED*.
> > I DISTICTLY REMEMBER LELAND TAPING JAQUES HAND TO THE BED AND THEN HOLDING
> > A PILLOW OVER HIS FACE--
> >  COMMENTS??
> >                                                        
  Bev,
   Yes Leland did suffocate Jaques.  Who knows why he said strangulation 
instead of suffocation?  There are many reason why he might have done that.
The question he should have asked was about Jacoby seeing Laura Palmer alive
and well right before he was attacked.  I mean Dr. Hayward told both Harry 
and Cooper that Jacoby claimed to have seen Laura.  So why did Cooper 
totally ignore that line of questioning?
   Other comments I have about the new season include Maddy's vision about 
the carpet in the living room at the Palmer's home.  Could it be her vision
is telling her that Killer Bob (or is it BOB) is living/had lived in the
Palmer basement.  I would like to see somebody go down there and check it 
out.  Just thinking out loud.  What do people on the net think?

                                                 Todd

Has anyone else thought that owls may be important because there
is a rare species of owl that is threatening the whole logging
industry  in the pacific NW old growth forests?

eric

In article <1990Oct2.083929.14175@world.std.com> katefans@world.std.com (Chris'n'Vickie of Chicago) writes:
> >Cooper MUST have met Madeline at Laura's funeral.

Maybe yes and maybe no.  He probably didn'y have time to meet everyone, and 
also there is the problem of who would have intruduced them.  After all, only
the Palmers knew her at that point, and they were in no shape to be doing
intruductions.


> >How long have Harry & Josie been an item? 

6 weeks.


Michael

Michael L. Kaufman   ||  So weave a circle round him thirce,
kaufman@eecs.nwu.edu ||     And close your eyes with holy dread.
                     ||  For he on honey-dew hath fed
                     ||     And drank the milk of paradise.       "Kubla Khan"

One curiosity left from the first season:
Wasn't Laura's finger/fingernail perfectly normal, not bloody, before
Cooper pulled the R from DEEP under her nail?  If it had been placed there only
a day before, her poor digit would be quite a mess.  Perhaps it had been there
for some time...?
Thus a random supposition: maybe, if BOB is the killer/ alter ego/
possessor of Laura (and Theresa), the R and the T indicate some kind of
longstanding supernatural connection between the victims and BOB.
-M.J.R. (from LMiller's account)

carl@robot.nuceng.ufl.edu (Drifter...) writes:

> >  - Leland singing "Does Eat Oats" while Ben and Jerry to a dance routine.

After having watched my FIRST episode of Twin Peaks (season premier),
I could not get this *(*&(^*&^*& tune out of my mind.  What are the words?

Does eat oats
And lambs eat oats
and little kids eat ivy ... ??? ... ???

Anyway, if I can find anyone with the first season's episodes on tape that
I can beg/borrow/steal (well...)...

-abc
-- Alan B. Clegg uucp: ...!mcnc!matrx!abc Matrix Corporation inet: abc@matrix.com Raleigh, NC abc@gateway.gateway.com My other machine is a gateway: abc@gateway.gateway.com

I am new to posting, so bear with me.  I have been studying the train car scene
on the VCR and I believe that the slow pan is along Laura's body, not Ronnette'sAlso, in several views of the scene, we see only BOB and one other figure, not
two as we might expect.  Perhaps the BOB came in after and was bummed theory
is close.  At any rate the clothes on the body are not the clothes that 
Ronnette was wearing when she stumbled out of the woods.

A few other things ....in #3662 the theory is presented that there are two facesto TP.  Interesting that the name is 'twin', huh.  I like that theory a lot.
The mixing of supernatural with the 'real' world.  Some characters can be in 
both (eg. Cooper was on the 'other side' when he spoke with the giant.)  Still, the third man is still a mystery...Laura did have sex with three men that night,correct?  jacques, Leo, and ?.  The Bob/Laura entity could probably not have
sex with itself, so a third 'physical' man must be involved.  I am leaning
towards Leland.  He is too freaked out to be innocent, and there are too many
references in her diary for it not to be important.

Oh well, more later.....

Jon Kull
UCSF Biochemistry

In article <1191@beguine.UUCP> Robert.Berry@samba.acs.unc.edu (BBS Account) writes:
|If Lynch thinks he can keep playing this game indefinitely, he's out
|of his mind.  If some answers aren't forthcoming pretty damn soon
|I think a lot of people are going to stop caring who killed Laura.

You must not have been paying attention.  There were a lot of answers in
the second season premier.  No, we still don't know who killed Laura
(or at least we don't know that we know), but as the giant said, "a
path is layed one stone at a time" (or something like that).
-- Brian L. Matthews blm@6sceng.UUCP

In article <1195@beguine.UUCP>, Heidi.Aycock@samba.acs.unc.edu (BBS Account) 
writes:
> > Well, I'm tickled. I don't care who murdered Laura either.
> > I just like the puzzle. However, the question about whether
> > Bobby's repented makes me wonder . . . wasn't it cocaine
> > that Bobby gave to Shelley in the hospital? COCAINE to 
> > someone suffering from SMOKE INHALATION!!!??? Seems pretty
> > warped to me.

I was caught by surprise, too, when I thought that Bobby was giving a bag of
cocaine/heroin/whatever to Shelley (a la Jerry to Blackie).  HOWEVER, my eyes
then refocused and I realized that Bobby was just holding the plastic doodad on
the end of the curtain pullstring.  Note how he then uses it to "listen to her
heart", ahem.

P.S. - Not that I expect a followup from everything I write, but didn't anybody
out there receive the message I posted titled "BOB revealed as.......!!!"?  In
it I (try to) answer some of the questions y'all have about the relationship
between BOB and Laura and Donna.  Any responses?  Please???!!!

- Gerry Grosz
  ggrosz@eagle.wesleyan.edu

In article <1959@anaxagoras.ils.nwu.edu> murray@ils.nwu.edu 
(Thomas Murray) writes:

> >
> >Did anyone experience "reception-like" problems during some peak
> >moments (like when the giant is talking to Cooper in the next to last
> >scene, and he says "three people have seen ..{static}.. but only one
> >has seen the body", or whatever)?
> >  < text deleted >
> >Just wondering if anyone else noticed a similar problem.
> >
> >-tom murray (murray@ils.nwu.edu)

Well, during the live showing, I didn't notice any problems with the
sound, but when I was reviewing my favorite parts last night, I 
noticed the glitches in the sound during the giant's  speech.  I thought
my VCR (which hasn't been reliable lately) had done me in again.

Thanks to everyone for posting the transcripts.

I loved the hint of the dwarf-dance music during Andy's duck dance.

Darryl

cate@csc.ti.com            "Just another Peak Geek"

In article <20239@ttidca.TTI.COM> paulb@harley.TTI.COM (Paul Blumstein) writes:
> >The actor who played the giant reminded me of the actor the played
> >Mr. Homm (Carel Struycken) on a few ST:TNG episodes.  Did anyone catch
> >the credits & notice whether they were the same actor?

Yes, It was Carl Struycken.  A friend I was watching with specifically
noticed this.

> >Paul Blumstein    |        Life is like a Roast Beef sandwich

Darryl Cate

cate@csc.ti.com                 "Just another Peak Geek"

In article <1874@yenta.alb.nm.us> synth@yenta.alb.nm.us (Synth F. Oberheim) writes:
|But it was clear that James was enamored with Donna just the way she was.
|Why would she take on a femme fatale attitude to win his affections over
|when she already has them?  No, my vote is that BOB is preying on Donna.

But some "looks" pass between James and Maddy, and at least one time
Donna notices this and seems jealous.  It's certainly not inconceivable
that Donna thinks James is falling for Maddy.
-- Brian L. Matthews blm@6sceng.UUCP

In article <2801@jaytee.East.Sun.COM> mario@theglove.Canada.Sun.COM (Mario Dorion - Sun Montreal) writes:
>> >>"Killer Bob" is Laura herself.
>> >>This idea leads to my belief that Laura, in fact, killed herself.  Remember,
>> >>she died of multiple stab wounds---pretty easy to do that to yourself and
>> >>lie there afterward (as if there were anywhere to go).
> >
> >And then tied herself up and wrapped herself in plastic!?

The wrapped-in-plastic part really bothers me.  We saw the same kind
of plastic in Leo's house.  With all the theories about psychotic evil
forces, why the tidiness of the plastic wrap?  Why not just leave
her in the train car?

Possibilitys:

  1) The person who wrapped the body was not the killer but thinks he 
     might have been (such as Leo who, because of all the drugs,
     can't remember what happened).

  2) Laura's murder was more of an "execution" designed to get revenge 
     against Leland.  The body was found much too quickly.  Perhaps a
     shady business deal went sour.  (Sorry, I know that's too earthly 
     for TP).

-- Scott Amspoker Basis International, Albuquerque, NM (505) 345-5232 unmvax.cs.unm.edu!bbx!bbxsda!scott

In article <38392@eerie.acsu.Buffalo.EDU> pjg@acsu.buffalo.edu (Paul Graham) writes:
> >hmmmm, and hmmmm again.  i think this one gets my vote as the wierdest
> >episode yet.  andy imitates a chicken.  leland wants to be steve
> >martin's brother.  the devil gets donna.  and alien time travellers from
> >star trek visit cooper.
> >


I'm getting quite a kick out of ol' Albert.  Has anyone noticed 
his resemblance to Jack Webb's Sgt. Friday, from the old 
Dragnet show?  



--Barbara 



--
Barbara HlavinReason, an ignis fatuus of the mind,
twain@blake.acs.washington.eduWhich leaves the light of nature, 
U Washington AI-10/Seattle 98195Sense, behind.  -John Wilmot

In article <8481@milton.u.washington.edu> vampire@blake.u.washington.edu (Eric Howard) writes:
> >Has anyone else thought that owls may be important because there
> >is a rare species of owl that is threatening the whole logging
> >industry  in the pacific NW old growth forests?

Funny, I would have put this exactly the other way around--there's a
rare species of owl that IS BEING THREATENED BY the logging industry.

But no, I didn't think of it.  (Hasn't Lynch in many places talked
about growing up spending lots of time in the woods?  Much of the
emotional "resonance" of the owls, the trees, and so on seems to stem
from Young David's experiences with them.)  (By the way, my brother
pointed out to me that TP has a few scenes in the woods that are
really like being in the woods.  TV usually depicts night in the woods
as mysteriously light enough to see--but in the scene where Mike and
Bobby meet Leo and ? in the woods, it's DARK, as woods really are.
And, as woods really can be at night, it's scary as hell.  TP, as
bizarre as it can be, is (at its best) rooted in real experience, not
some scriptwriters guess about what things are like.  That's what
gives it its solidity, for me.)

-- Rod Johnson * rjohnson@vela.acs.oakland.edu * (313) 650 2315 "Dogs bark at strangers" -- Heraclitus

I have just finished reading hundreds of posts about the season pilot and have
not yet seen my own first impression of the vision that Ronnette had during the
last 3 minutes of the show.
  --when Doc Hayward said (or who ever said) that the blood used to write 'Fire
 Walk With Me' was not Laura, Ronnette, Leo, or Jaques, and that they found a
 blood soaked shirt or towel (my memory is not what it used to be) that was of
the same type I thought of the the one-armed man.  the scream that killer bob
let out at the end sounded like one of agony.  So here goes.....

Maybe it was Mike the OAM who killed laura and beat up Ronnette.  After the
deed was done Bob comes upon them (or BOB who is really Laura's other personali
ty) and sees what has been done and screams out in agony, helping Mike to cut
off his own arm which is where all of the blood came from.

   okay, i realize it is a bit far fetched and not very well thought out but it
is an idea that has been on my mind since Sunday.

brennan@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan) writes:

> >I hate to spoil some fun, but Josie had to go to Seattle because Joan
> >Chen's commitments to filmmaking in Hong Kong ran long.  It had been
> >reported that she couldn't make it back to the US in time for the
> >start of TP taping, and I was wondering what they would do--whether
> >she would be able to shoot a few quick scenes in time to be dropped
> >into episodes, or what.  For those unaware, Joan Chen is a very big
> >star in Chinese movies.  A Chinese (PRC) friend said of TP, "a famous
> >actress is in it"--that's all he knows about the show.

I do believe you, but what about the oriental thug at the Great Northern
looking for Josie?  Did Lynch/Frost throw this in for now, while they
work up an explanation?

synth@yenta.alb.nm.us
"Vigilante justice or just plain country living?"

A few more thoughts on the sunglasses.  If the entity BOB is a creature of the
night, perhaps it has trouble dealing with daylight. So, perhaps when BOB
occupies the minds/bodies of various people, he wants to wear dark glasses.  In
the diary, Laura says something about his not being around in the day.  Look
for a change of personality when Donna has the glasses on or off.

Keep dreaming....

Just an observation that may lend light to the question of Cooper
dreaming the giant.  Major Briggs in the same episode went into an
extended theory of the difference between a dream and a vision.  I
think this makes it clear that although Cooper insisted to himself
that he was not dreaming, he was in fact having a vision.  I think
we can decide for ourselves what really happened to Cooper's ring,
but in his fatigued state he (and we) perceived that the Giant took
it.   yep yep yep, that's what I think.

> >Speaking of good old Duluth, did you ever read Gore Vidal's "Duluth"
> >? 

No, but I did live there for a few years (kinda hate ot admit it) and my
wife is from there... The city has been fixed up very nice I here, but it
is still a VERY! strange neck of the woods, now whadda mean! I've got
stories that would make Lynch'w externals shrink into a body caviity...

If you are going to crosspost an article from alt.tv.twin-peaks
to rec.arts.tv, would you please ensure that the Subject field
contains the words Twin Peaks, or at least TP?

eg
Subject: TP - Were the Giant's clues captured on tape?

This will ensure the continuing sanity of those of us who
are trying to kill these articles!

THANK YOU!


-- J G Miller telephone: (519) 679-2111 extension 6325 Room 024, Chemistry Building InterNet: <a4346@uwocc1.uwo.CA> University of Western Ontario NetNorth: <A4346@UWOCC1.BITNET> LONDON, Ontario, N6A 5B7 mailpath: {uunet!watmath,utai}!ria!a4346

   There's one thing that I must know before I go on.  Is the secret
cult that includes hawk and the sheriff an Owl cult?  if so that would
explain quite a bit.  Owl is the spirit that sits back and observes,
this spirit interferes only in the most extreame of situations.  Thus if
my theory is correct, the giant is Owl personified, and the references
to owls, such as those within the diary, "owls can sometimes be big",
and the scene with the owl attacking Laura,  would explain that Owl was
interfering in protecting the town.  Now to find something that would be
large enough to cause the activation of Owl.  This is where things get
very magical.  BOB is not a normal person, but what is Mike?   Also,
where is the different plane?  Is it Hell?  or Hades?  And what interest
does the little man have in T.P. or at least Laura Palmer? 
 
    If the little man, and his minions are the cause for Owl's
interference, get ready for some very bizzare and strange dealings in
magic.  Hopefully more intricate than what anyone would expect.  

  Of course this is all conjecture, Lynch can interpret the legends in
any way he wishes to, including the Tebetian legends.  There's more to
this than just a murder,  I suggest to enjoy the scenes as they come
out, it's not gonna get any more normal
 
J-L P

In article <1990Oct2.193018.12783@velvet.com> barb@velvet.com (Barbara Petersen) writes:
> >
> >The word that came most strongly to mind was "pathetic".  A few of the good
> >points remain: many of the characters are still interesting; the direction is
> >still top-notch; there are still lots of "good lines".  On the other hand:
MANY LINES DELETED
> >Ultimately, I wonder if it's even *possible* for a week-after-week television
> >show format to be compatible with the sort of production that "Twin Peaks"
> >wanted (and wants) to be.  As a mini-series, it could have been a classic; as
> >it is, it continues to grow embarrassing.

Well, personally I enjoyed the start of the second season, but I'm not replying
to argue, rather to explore what the television format brings to TP.  I agree that
we may be expecting too much to have TP stay at the level of the first premiere for
the 7 year run that is now expected of major hit TV shows.  Even two seasons could
add up to 20 to 30 hours of material, enough to constitute a lifetime of work for a film
director.  I think we/"the networks" do a diservice when we expect things to last for
years.  Many of the best British Comedies only about 12 episodes.  Of course to keep
actors alive the viewer is expected to accept the same actors and actresses in different
series with different personalities without major layoffs in between shows.  Sort
of repertory TV.  So if TP dies after this season,  don't complain.  It could be a good
precendent for American TV.

The thing that TP gains from TV is some guidelines that DL and MF must stay within.  On
film DL can send decapitated heads flying across the screen (with smoke overlay so
its only an R), but on TV they are much more limited.  Most of the time they are forced
to show the affects of violent acts instead of the acts themselves.  I don't think any
depiction of a murder could be more disturbing than the scene DL gave us in the pilot
to show what Laura's murder meant.  That slow camera pan down the dangling phone cord with
Laura's mother screaming on the sound track brought the reality of murder home.  This
approach affects me more than the end of last nights episode (which at 10:55PM is hardly
a time when small children should be watching, but then I was disturbed to see Audrey
and all the other kids drinking coffee in the Double R. :-))  These limitations are
similar to an argument made about classical music, that because the composers are bound
by many rules the music is actually better.  I never liked that arguement, but now I
am starting to see the point.  How do other people feel about the differences between
TP and DL's movies that might be due to the TV format? -andy

Is it just me, or does Donna look *really* unhappy
whenever Maddy & James look @ each other?  There seems to 
be a strong element of jealousy there, as though D were
afraid M would take L's place in J's heart (M, O, U, S, E!).

Also I think it's interesting that *Donna* has con-
sistently urged others to withhold evidence from the authorities.
It seems that Donna has a vested interest in keeping the 
identity of Laura's killer a secret.

"I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV"Ge|ge

--

rwelch@diana.cair.du.edu (RANDY S WELCH) writes:
}Anybody else get the impression that James didn't know what hit him when
}Donna paid him a visit?  I get the opinion that James is still a virgin
}*gasp* and also a bit naive.

Not at all.  I think James recognizes that what happened to Laura is now
happening to Donna.  I think he's scared shitless.

Remember, James's mother likes to visit small towns, get drunk, and fuck
anyone she can pick up in the local bars.  I doubt he's all that naive.

-Pete Zakel
 (phz@cadence.com or ..!{hpda,versatc,apollo,ucbcad,uunet}!cadence!phz)

In article <1990Oct1.170708.4358@odin.corp.sgi.com> bam@rudedog.asd.sgi.com (Brian McClendon) writes:
> >on the surgical tubing she pulls out after jerry puts a 
> >crystaline white chunk on her desk... ??).

What crystalline white chunk?  You need a better TV, man.  It was powdered
heroin wrapped very tightly in a balloon or cellophane and tied off.  It's
one of the standard ways heroin is supplied.  Of course, I only know that
because it came to me in a dream......

-Pete Zakel
 (phz@cadence.com or ..!{hpda,versatc,apollo,ucbcad,uunet}!cadence!phz)

We don't if really know if what we saw was Ronette's dream
or Cooper's dream/vision of Ronette dreaming.  The whole scene is
done in a way that suggests it was a gift to Cooper from the
giant.

Jeffrey St. Clair

We don't even really know if what we saw was Ronette's dream
or Cooper's dream/vision of Ronette dreaming.  The whole scene is
done in a way that suggests it was a gift to Cooper from the
giant.

Jeffrey St. Clair

In article <1990Oct1.202547.1848@athena.mit.edu> jerhy@athena.mit.edu (Jeremy A Hylton) writes:
> >   Bob, who is Laura, killed Ronette and Laura.  Bob is an alternate
> >sort of personality developed to deal with the psychological trauma of
> >being molested by her father, Leland.  To prevent his discovery,
> >Leland wraps his daughter in plastic and tosses her in the river.

Sigh.....

What all you people are forgetting is that there is PHYSICAL evidence of
BOB's presence independent of Laura.  The Giant specifies that at least one
person (obviously Ronette) has seen his body.  Albert and Cooper both cite
evidence that there was a third man at Jacques' cabin the night of Laura's
death.  The Log Lady (or the Log) heard a third man.

BOB is R-E-A-L, not a figment of Laura's imagination or a second personality.
There is another world accessable through the locale of Twin Peaks (hence
the significance of the name, and the twin theme that runs throughout the
program).  The Dwarf and the Giant and Killer Bob all come from this other
world.  BOB (or Killer Bob) usually manifests by taking over the psyche of
humans who are sensitive to him, but he also has the ability to appear
physically when appropriate.  BOB is also responsible for the killing of
Theresa Banks.  It is possible that BOB is the manifestation of the evil
in the woods or, more likely, he is one of many possible manifestations.

The owls are not what they seem.

Of course, this is all my theory, but it fits EVERYTHING given to us so
far.  The theories that BOB is Laura completely ignore clues that are
plainly put in front of our faces.

Twin Peaks isn't just some bit of TV fluff where various clues can just
be thrown away or ignored at the whim of the writers.  Twin Peaks is a
major work that strives for a wholeness and continuity that is rarely seen
on TV or film today.  Twin Peaks does not exist in this world, but it is
every bit as real as this one.  The characters are real, and have as many
dimensions and facets and any real human you may meet.

Yes, there are occasional continuity glitches, like the chain on the half-
heart in Jacoby's coconut, or the change in Laura's tape -- but these are
minor, like the occasional typos that occur in even the best of novels.
Twin Peaks is a masterwork.  You can't just skip over chapters like some
dime romance novel.  It must be viewed as a whole.

Beware of BOB.

-Pete Zakel
 (phz@cadence.com or ..!{hpda,versatc,apollo,ucbcad,uunet}!cadence!phz)

"Where does he keep his water dish?"

In article <1990Oct1.180306.33779@eagle.wesleyan.edu> lmiller@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
> >
> >The two characters who really captured my attention this time out were Leland
> >and Donna.  Leland's hair...well, I'm sure you understand.  And I loved Donna's
> >devil woman routine, but I can't agree with the several posters who think that
> >Laura's spirit has possessed her.  Sure, she's "becoming" Laura, but I think
> >it's intentional.  Think of the expression on her face when she put on the
> >sunglasses - it all kinds of reminds me of the transfer of command in the movie
> >"Heathers".  (Yes, I know, totally different, it's just an analogy. 
> >Overshadowed friend greedily trying on the limelight of sin, etc.)  

The phrase "there's a new sherrif in town" certainly ran through MY
mind. I think it's going to back-fire though...James was obviously *not*
thrilled. I think he likes Donna as an innocent; I also thought she
was doing a pretty lousy job of it (being Laura). Maybe I just like her 
as an innocent myself. ;-)

> >BTW, I've stubbornly pegged Donna as the killer since the beginning, for
> >ABSOLUTELY NO GOOD REASON, I admit it.  Does anyone who's analyzed every
> >episode five times know a good reason why she DIDN'T do it?  I'm genuinely
> >curious.
> >-Laura

Well sheesh Laura, if you don't know, who does? ;-)

Donna certainly seems extremely reluctant to tell anyone the truth
about anything. And she has one (or possibly two) of the classic
murder motives. I wonder how much alibi checking has been done?
I don't remember hearing anything much abou it.
-- c2h5oh@ucscb.ucsc.edu | "And they all got rich without working, which | is very wrong; but the dragon had never been | to school, as you have, so he knew no better."

Back in Lit. class we talked about how Dickens wrote his books
in installments and sometimes wound up changing his original
plan because of the feed-back he got.

I had a feeling all through the first episode of the new season...
a feeling that the show has been influenced by all the attention
it's gotten. I wonder how much we are writing our own show?

-- c2h5oh@ucscb.ucsc.edu | "And they all got rich without working, which | is very wrong; but the dragon had never been | to school, as you have, so he knew no better."

In article <1077@ria.ccs.uwo.ca> hekunze@watmsg.uwaterloo.ca (Herb Kunze) writes:
}One final note about something that is really confusing me.  It has to do
}with the various blood types being thrown around in the show.  I've gone
}back and checked my tape of the scene in Jacques' apartment where Coop
}finds the Fleshworld magazine and the blood stained shirt planted by Bobby.
}Doc Hayward definitely says that the blood type on the shirt is AB-negative,
}and after following up Coop's intuition confirms that Jacques has that type.
}Yet, when Coop recaps the events of the evening of Laura's death, he says
}that the "Fire...Walk With Me" scribbling and the blood stained rag that 
}Hawk found are both type AB-negative, a rare type different from Leo,
}Jacques, Laura and Ronnette.  What gives?

I wondered about that, too, but I think they are indicating that they typed
the blood in the lab.  There are far more blood factors that can be tested
for than A, B, and Rh.  Those three are the most important for blood
transfusions, but many more factors can be typed for verifying whose blood
is whose.  Yes, both Jacques and Killer Bob may be AB-, but that doesn't
mean all the other factors are the same.

And I'm sure Coop believed Jacques (as do I) when he said he passed out at
the cabin and awoke to find everyone gone.  Therefore, his blood can't be
that which was used to write "Fire, walk with me" on the paper.

-Pete Zakel
 (phz@cadence.com or ..!{hpda,versatc,apollo,ucbcad,uunet}!cadence!phz)

"Bite the bullet, bay-bee."

I remember someone describing previous episodes as having
themes such as the "birds" theme and the "secret passageway"
theme. I think the theme of the seasons opener is probably the
"distorted faces" theme.

Examples:

1) Audrey's cat mask

2) Donna's taking Laura's sunglasses - and Maddie losing her glasses

3) The cigar that never seems to leave Ben's lips - ditto the
cigarette and Big Ed. The cigar is a fairly obvious Freudian symbol,
too. And Donna's starting smoking too, I forgot.

4) The final scene, of course.

I guess this could be generalized further to include Lelands hair...

I think the distortions that have been obvious on an intellectual
level are now being physically materialized.
-- c2h5oh@ucscb.ucsc.edu | "And they all got rich without working, which | is very wrong; but the dragon had never been | to school, as you have, so he knew no better."

In article <1990Oct2.031402.20048@alembic.acs.com> csu@alembic.acs.com (Dave Mack) writes:
> >In article <1990Oct1.143739@cs.Buffalo.EDU> mathews@cs.Buffalo.EDU (Ryan D Mathews) writes:
>> >>Here, for posterity, are the giant's prophecies (corrections welcome):
>> >>"There is a man in a smiling bag"
> >Right. Jacques in a body bag.
>> >>"Leo was locked in a hungry house"
> >"Leo, locked in a Hungry Horse."
> >Leo was in jail in Hungry Horse, Montana when Theresa Banks was killed.
>> >>"The Owls are not what they seem"
> >Right. Translation unknown so far.
>> >>"One has seen the third man. Three have seen him, yes... but not his
>> >>body. One only, know to you."
> >"One has seen the third man. Three have seen him, yes... but not his
> >body. One only, known to you, ready to speak."
> >The three who have seen the third man are Sarah Palmer and Cooper
> >himself, in visions. The third, of course, is Ronette Pulaski who
> >is out of her coma and ready to speak.

It seems that the clues we've figured out refer to the main
participants in the night of the murder - Jacques, Leo and Ronette.
Does that mean the owl clue refers to the third man or to Laura?
Or maybe to the log lady, who was a witness? That seems more likely.

These clues bug me. I don't mind the supernatural element so much,
but the clues seem extremely contrived and not very meaningful. The
one thing the giant said I really *did* like was something about
"what matters is where you've been" in response to Coopers "where
are you from?". (This is probably remember all wrong.) I liked the
implication that the Giant had not come from someplace but that
Cooper had gone someplace...

-- c2h5oh@ucscb.ucsc.edu | "And they all got rich without working, which | is very wrong; but the dragon had never been | to school, as you have, so he knew no better."

Okay, now that we've established that there is a posibility that
there is a distinction between a TP dream and a TP visions, let's 
define what these terms mean, and also which ones are which in the
context of the series itself.

Tentatively:

A dream is a "sober" rehash of the days events.

A vision is where great truths are revealed.

So which is which, based on this hypothesis?  In other words, was
The Giant simply Cooper dreaming again (either an actual sleeping
dream OR a delirium)?  It seems possible, especially considering that
he interracted with the giant, as opposed to say Mrs. Palmer just
flashing on Killer Bob's face.

It isn't clear if the Major's experience was an interractive one
or not.  I do like the theory that he is foreshadowing his own
death, and wants to make peace with his son.  The more I think of
it, the more convinced I am that his vision is important, and that his
secret work is very essential to everything, and may be of a more sinister
nature than previously thought.  

Incidentally, people who fear the show's flirtations with mysticism
and ambiguity, remember The Prisoner - there were flirtations
with mysticism and no easy resolutions there either.  But it was
a terrific show, every bit the equal of TP in tone and style.

- dan
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Elvis was seated on the toilet, actually reading a religious book...when 
suddenly a terrible pain gripped him by his stomach and seized his heart with a
strangler's grip.  'Oh no, dear dear God,' he thought.  He couldn't move.  He 
couldn't get up.  He had to get up.  He must get up...That terrible pain, like 
swords of fire, jabbing, slitting, cutting into his stomach, and especially his
liver - it was impossible to bear...Suddenly the thought flashed through him: 
this must be like what Jesus suffered."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > The word that came most strongly to mind was "pathetic".
> > -- Is it a murder mystery or isn't it?

Man, if you want to categorize it, you're watching the wrong show.
That's all I have to say.

---------- Ryan Mathews
"If Star Trek fans are trekkies, does that make us peakies?"
-- Internet : mathews@cs.buffalo.edu Bitnet : mathews@sunybcs UUCP :{apple,cornell,decwrl,harvard,rutgers,talcott,ucbvax,uunet}! cs.buffalo.edu!mathews

Oh, I forgot a few:

Shelly's and Pete's breathing tubes.

Andy's injury to his face.

Also, the lips of both Shelly and Ronette looked rather odd,
sort of puffy.


-- c2h5oh@ucscb.ucsc.edu | "And they all got rich without working, which | is very wrong; but the dragon had never been | to school, as you have, so he knew no better."

I thought that the thong-chain misunderstanding was cleared out in an 
earlier posting. Correct me if I am wrong but:

1. James and Laura each had one half of the heart.
*2. James half used a leather thong while Laura's half had a gold chain.
3. Laura's half with the gold chain was found at the train car by Cooper
   and company.
4. James buries his half with the leather thong in the woods with Donna.
5. Jacoby gets the half heart buried in the woods and keeps it in the
   coconut.
6. James gets back the his half heart still with the thong at Jacoby's
   place.
7. James gives up his half with the thong to Cooper.

Step two could probably explain the confusion. This explanation was just
implied in a previous posting and probably lots missed on it.


Now eat your heart out,
Louie

In <1990Oct1.184651.11855@morrow.stanford.edu> andy@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Andy Michael USGS Guest) writes:

> >Personally I think Lynch has blown it a bit with the premier.  Not for
> >us true believers, but for any new viewers.  Are there any new viewers
> >out there that were able to follow the premier?

Well.  I'm a new viewer.  All I knew going in was more or less what Laura
Palmer's corpse looked like and that no one knew who killed her.

I don't know much more now, but I'm not complaining.

A few questions inevitably come to mind.  Veteran Peakers may be able to
answer some or all of them -- I don't really care.

* Who the hell is this guy Cooper who doesn't even break a sweat with a
  bullet in his gut and a couple of broken ribs?  "Just put it on the
  table" indeed!  

* What's with the old man?  There's a guy bleeding on the floor!  WAKE UP!
  Obviously this is not a normal universe, or perhaps it's just incredibly
  INTENSE in its normality.

* Why does the giant wear a bow tie?  (Note: not "Who's the giant?" or
  "What's the giant?")  Why did he wait during the second visit to "turn
  on the light" over Cooper's bed?  Was he checking to make sure Cooper
  was asleep?  WAS Cooper dreaming after all?

* What goes in TP hospital food? ("It's got raisins in it.  You *like*
  raisins!" -- Better off Dead)  Is this (about to be) some sort of
  recurring joke?

* Was the streak that what's-her-name saw run across the carpet blood?
  Was it a shadow?  Was it scorched carpet?  Was it just some Nameless
  Evil Entity that she recognized from Elsewhere?  Was it, for example,
  Spilled Hospital Food?

* Does eat oats, and deers eat oats, and little lambs eat ivy.  A kid'll
  eat ivy too.  Wouldn't you?

* Who's the log lady?  What kind of wood is it?

* Is the one-armed man REALLY selling SHOES??  In a sheriff's office?
  Why shoes, and not, say, apple pie?  Coffee?  Heroin?  Hospital Food?
  Owls Which Are Not What They Seem Unless You Are Wearing A Bow Tie?

* What was that poem about Laura supposed to mean?  It SOUNDS significant,
  but I suspect it's a red herring.

* Why does the killer have more than one voice?  Sounds like the standard
  Possessed Dude Laughing sound effect.  Or was that just an artifact of
  the dream/vision we saw him in?

* Several of you refer to the killer as "BOB".  Any relation to J. R. "Bob"
  Dobbs?  Or perhaps Krusty the Clown's arch-nemesis Sideshow Bob?

I don't expect to get answers to all these questions.  Hell, I don't expect
to get answers to ANY of these questions.  I don't give a flying fuck at a
rolling donut who killed Laura Palmer, but I'm still going to watch the
next episode.  If I tried to follow the plot at this stage, I'd drive myself
crazy enough to cut off an arm and sell shoes.  I'm just going to sit back,
have a beer, turn the VCR on and the brain off, and ENJOY.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Erickson          | Diane killed Laura Palmer.
UC Irvine ICS Dept.    |
jeff@ics.uci.edu       | These are my opinions.  MINE, MINE, MINE!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

This has been mentioned over and over again, and STILL some are
confused.  Here it is again for (hopefully) the last time.  Now pay
attention.

Larua breaks heart necklace.  Laura gives half of heart to James
(James's flashback, season 1, episode 1).  Laura's half on gold chain.
James's half on leather thong.  James and Donna bury thonged necklace.
Jacoby digs up thonged necklace.

Now, the glitch (yes, it REALLY IS a glitch).  In the first season
finale, the necklace that James and Donna recover from Jacoby's place
has a GOLD CHAIN, not a LEATHER THONG.  It really is a glitch because it
gets corrected in this season's premiere -- James's half is back on its
thong like it should be.

Enough said.

-Pat
"I think now I understand how you feel about your husband's death."

Here's some suggestions -


Perhaps the fact that Cooper forgot that Jacque's blood type
is AB- is what the giant was referring to with his clue that
Cooper was forgetting something.  I doubt that Cooper was
forgetting Audrey's note because you have to know something 
first to be able to forget it, and he didn't know that Audry
had left a note.  Therefore, how could he forget the note?
The giant should have said that he was "missing" something.

Also, remember what Laura's mother said to Maddy when she was
about to mention her vision of the carpet.  Sarah said something
about "seeing Laura, too" - does this mean that she also had a
vision of Laura on their carpet?  Also note that there was a sound
of fire when they showed Maddy's vision (whatever it was).


Dave

"Homey don't play dat!"

Here's another t.p. MAC sound file.. Its of albert rosenwhatever
saying "look, its trying to think.." stuffed and binhexed.. sorry
it's been so long between u/l's. been pretty busy..


Attachments:
Part 1.217.4 KB

In article <1091@ncis.tis.llnl.gov>, lindner@ncis.tis.llnl.gov (Curt Lindner) writes:
> > In article <1990Oct1.151932@cs.Buffalo.EDU> mathews@cs.Buffalo.EDU (Ryan D Mathews) writes:
>> >>
>> >>What happened to the scene of the blurry person walking toward the
>> >>camera that we saw in the preview? That was cut out. Wonder why.
>> >>
> > No, it was there... He was running though... The preview must have
> > been in slow motion.   And they blurred it so you couldn't see
> > who it was...
> > 
> > 
> > Curt


I seriously beg to differ, Curt.  Certainly, there was a shot in the premiere
of Killer Bob running toward the camera (w/special effects added), but this in
no matter whatsoever was the same shot as in the preview.  The person in the
preview was in a casual cadence... not at all the same as running in slow
motion.  Furthermore, the preview person was in an all-black surrounding.  And
finally, as mentioned earlier, I believe that premiere shot was a composite of
Killer Bob's body and Laura's head.  The scene in the premiere was clearly all
Killer Bob.  I assume we'll see the premiere person in an upcoming episode...
With all the psychic activity going on nowadays, I'd say we can expect at least
one vision per episode from now on!

HLW

In article <9781@ccncsu.ColoState.EDU> bk436572@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (brian krause) writes:
> >
> >Wow, what a show...cooool!

I say....WOW, Glad to hear that I wasn't the only one having trouble
sleep; talk about wierd dreams. Watching TP & then following it by
reading Augustine....
> >lets see here....
> >
> >Donna's got the devil in her....seems to be following the same path
> >that  Laura did.....into Hell.

I think that the glasses have some energy left over from
Laura. Lynch seems to like the idea of evil spreading, & corrputing
others. In Blue Velvet Frank, the arch-evil, corrupts Dorthy
Valens; she in turn treats, & wants Jeffery to treat her
the same way; then Jeffery too is almost drawn into it, his
S&M sex with her. Though Jeffery eventually overcomes the evil.
Donna appears to be more affected than Maddie. She wore the 
shades longer; she is wearing them during her visit to James.
It's interesting that Maddie, only breaks her glasses, she's affected,
but in a seemingly minor way, but Donna she really seems to change.

> >3) without chemicals he must point.
> >--eewwww! no idea....yet.

Ciao--

I think this refers to Dr. Jacoby. For at the hospital Dr. Hayward
comes in to check in on him. There's a nurse in the room, &
he asks her (paraphrased) "What's he on?" She says "Only what you
prescribed. He did eat a little bite of his dinner." So I think
that indicates that he acted as if he were under the influence
of chemicals, but wasn't. After this Coop walks in & questions
him. Here we get the scene were he tells Coop that it looked
like Laura was prepared to meet her fate, to aide in her own
death. Thus I think he is the person in the Giant's 3rd clue.
I posted awhile back that I thought it was suicide. Now it
appears that I am somewhat wrong, yet it does appear that
even if she didn't physically kill herself, she helped to bring
it about, & she longed for her death. Now, what I first thought
that she did so to break from the horror of who BOB was, &
to find peace. After that last scene I am beginning to wonder
if the death was in fact an attempt to completely join/merge
with the Evil.

200+ to go....
   Considerate la vostra semenza:      ||  sally a. wilson
fatti non foste a viver come bruti,    ||  sally@mica.berkeley.edu
ma per seguir virtute e canoscenza.    ||  "il inferno":
_Inferno_ Canto XXVI vv.118-120.       ||  damn good poem, & hot too!

Do I have this right? The Giant comes in the room, waves his hand
over Cooper, then leaves? (I'm not sure if that's right), then FADES
BACK IN, walks up to Cooper and the light show begins again.

Am I remembering right? I swear the Giant entered twice during the
second visitation.
---------- Ryan Mathews
-- Internet : mathews@cs.buffalo.edu Bitnet : mathews@sunybcs UUCP :{apple,cornell,decwrl,harvard,rutgers,talcott,ucbvax,uunet}! cs.buffalo.edu!mathews