Season 2, Episode 01: May the Giant Be with You — September 30–October 05, 1990

In article <1990Oct4.020552.7816@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> slg20427@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Locutus of Borg) writes:
> >
> >Does anyone remember a scene from the first season where Leland is     
> >getting his blood tested?  I'm sure I remember seeing it.  He was in his house
> >and some woman had just taken a blood sample I assume.  
> >Why was Leland having his blood tested?  To find out what type it was?
> >

I saw this.  I don't think it was a blood sample, though.  I assumed he had 
just gotten an injection, probably of a sedative.  This was just before the 
funeral, as I recall, and Benjamin had said earlier that "Leland couldn't be 
with us today."  His later actions certainly betrayed a need for some sedation.

He is watching INVITATION TO LOVE.  Madelaine enters the room in the same 
scene.  Anyone else notice that, whenever Jade/Emerald appears in ITL, Maddy
is in the very next shot when we return to TP!  Hmmm...

--
===============================================================================
Malcolm Austin -- maus@fir.morgan.com 
Disclaimer (v.), to unarm an opponent wielding a Scottish broadsword
===============================================================================

 Announcing the 1st Annual, Absolutely Official, :-), Alt.TV.Twin-Peaks
Let's-All-See-What-We-Really-Think, Mystery Solvin' Poll!! (fanfare)

Wherein I endeavor to glean the opinions of this esteemed group, using
my incredible polling experience gained from holding 1 (ONE) major
poll on rec.arts.comics last year. (Next poll in that group in two
months; subscribe now!)

The purpose?
-- To determine the killer of Laura Palmer
-- To uncover the true nature of BOB
-- To decipher the cryptic giant
-- To kill time

Here we go! All questions multiple-choice, elaborations allowed. EMAIL
ONLY!  Send your answers to me at one of the addresses in my .sig and
please, no wagering.

1) Who do you think killed Laura Palmer?
a) BOB  (only choose this if you think BOB is BOB and not
 someone else)
b) Laura herself
c) Leland
d) Josie
e) Ronnette
f) Ben Horne
g) other (elaborate)

2) What do you think BOB is?
a) a figment of Laura's imagination
b) a second personality of Laura
c) a supernatural entity
d) a real person with supernatural powers
e) a real person who scared Laura into seeing him everywhere
f) one of the Twin Peaks cast (who?)
g) other (elaborate)

3) Who shot Cooper?
a) Leland
b) Josie
c) One of the brothers Horne or a henchman
d) Bobby
e) Hank
f) Audrey (hey, if it was good enough for TV Guide... :-) )
g) other (elaborate)

4) What is the giant?
a) a supernatural entity
b) a figment of Cooper's dreams
c) other (elaborate)

5) Do you think Madelyne is Laura (Y/N)

That's it for this poll. There are lots of other questions, but none
that seem to boil down to multiple choice.

Tentative deadline: Midnight, Oct 12.

The results will be sent to David Lynch, who will have to follow them.
(Yeah, right.) :-> :-> :-> :->

---------- Ryan Mathews
-- Internet : mathews@cs.buffalo.edu Bitnet : mathews@sunybcs UUCP :{apple,cornell,decwrl,harvard,rutgers,talcott,ucbvax,uunet}! cs.buffalo.edu!mathews

> >2:  Arrgghhh!  Audrey is in trouble and Agent Cooper doesn't even know about
> >it.  The white knight in me was very frustrated by this :-).  P.S. Does anyone
> >know the actual age of Sherrilyn Fenn?  Clearly, she's not 18...

She's 23.

In article <1990Oct3.212955.33891@eagle.wesleyan.edu> ggrosz@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
}Anyway, more quickies!!!
}
}- Any clues on why 'Mike Gerard' (season 1) turned into 'Philip Michael Gerard'
}(season 2)?

Don't know, but I can't help but associate this name with the Television
show "The Fugitive".  The obvious reference is the one-armed man, but
the name Philip Michael Gerard strikes a cord.  Does anybody know if
any of the characters on The Fugitive had the name?

Lance

-- Lance T. Franklin +----------------------------------------------+ (ltf@ncmicro.lonestar.org) | "I'll hit you with this here lollipop!" | NC Microproducts, Inc. | The Fat Fury | Richardson, Texas +----------------------------------------------+

kaufman@delta.eecs.nwu.edu (Michael L. Kaufman) has presented several
pieces of flimsy evidence in support of the theory that Madeleine is
really Laura.  Well, I have even \more/ flimsy evidence!

There is a scene in the season opener where Madeleine is sitting with
Laura's mother in the living room.  The dialog goes something like:

LAURA'S MOTHER: Do you miss Beth?
MADELEINE: Who?
LAURA'S MOTHER: (slightly surprised) Your \mother/, Elizabeth.

So, doesn't Madeleine know her own mother?  Hmmm....

s'marks

--
Stuart W. MarksARPA: smarks@eng.sun.com
Windows & Graphics SoftwareUUCP: sun!smarks
Sun Microsystems, Inc.

As far as _we_ know, Elvis killed Laura Palmer.  My wife and I
misset the VCR, and we missed the season opener.  

While we can't bring ourselves to offer you our sweet firstborn,
we can offer to reimburse you for Express Mail postage, tape,
your time, etc.  How can we watch the second episode not having
seen the first?  This is the stuff of desperation.

Can you help us?  Please reply by e-mail to miller.3@osu.edu,
or phone us at 614 267-2778.

Thanks to someone in advance.

David and Marcy
-=-
David Neal Miller
miller.3@osu.edu

In article <554@news.chips.com>, bmay@chips.com (Brad May) writes:
> > The first sequence shows BOB kneeling over Laura.  This is *not* in the rail 
> > car, it is in the kitchen of some cabin!  I think it's Jaques' cabin, but not 
> > sure.  Bob is just quietly watching her.  I can't tell if Laura is alive or 
> > dead (if dead, the dream is not in chronological sequence).  At the end of 
> > this sequence, there is a reddish glow (like fire) coming through the window 
> > that grows until it floods the room.

  I disagree with you here.  My roommates and I went through this scene
  frame-by-frame and this sequence *was* in the train car.  BOB is not
  quietly watching her, either.  Watch it again.  First we see the outside
  of the train car with it's windows glowing green.  Then we pop inside
  the car and see Laura lying on the ground and BOB squatting next to her.
  BOB has his hands around the hill of dirt that was found in the train
  car and one can actually see a piece of paper lying on the dirt between
  his hands.  The frame right after the flash of light is best to determine
  that this is indeed the case, and, to top it off, it's even clear that the
  paper has the same shape as the "Fire...Walk With Me" paper.  The other
  evidence that Coop found in the train car is also lying around.  There
  also seems to be some sort of twine lying in the lower right hand corner
  of the screen - perhaps the twine used to tie Laura up?
    BOB is performing some sort of ceremony here.

> > Second sequence shows BOB running at viewer through a doorway.  Doorway is 
> > *not* the hospital corridor or door of Ronette's room, as some have posted.  
> > It is a wooden double-door, with a wooden moulding, definetely some kind of 
> > house (or the same cabin).  The walls are painted off-white, but aren't tiled 
> > like the hospital.  I don't know if it's possible to recognize the door from 
> > old tapes, but maybe some video sluth can recognize it.

  Okay.  I've reviewed the scene frame-by-frame again and made some notes.
  The scene begins right after Coop is shown lying in bed, with his eyes
  open, after the Giant has left.  First we see a hallway, call it Corridor
  #1, with lotsa yellow doors on it and no sign of activity.  Then we see
  a second hallway, call it Corridor #2, which seems to be more of a main
  corridor of the hospital.  About halfway down the screen, if you don't
  mind thinking in 3-D, is a wooden framed passageway.  Note the objects
  on either side of this passageway and the way walls come off it.  
  Then we cut to Corridor #3, with lotsa fluorescent lights on the
  ceiling.  After a couple of seconds, the camera starts to move down     
  Corridor #3.  Then we cut to Ronnette's room.  Then back to the camera
  moving down Corridor #3.  Back to Ronnette, her arms rising.  Back to
  moving down Corridor #3.  Back to Ronnette, her arms rising further.
  Then to the train car scene, described earlier.

  It was our (my roommates & myself) contention that the doorway that
  BOB is shown running through could be the doorway in Corridor #2.
  Yes, you're quite right that there are double doors, but I recall
  seeing something with that design in some other hospital scene, so,
  although it is impossible to tell if the doorway in Corridor #2 has
  double doors, it could be.  Without frame-by-frame, it may be
  difficult to pause your picture when the train car scene has been
  pretty much faded out and we can still see the doorway BOB is 
  running through.  

  One thing is clear:  The doorway is not the door to Jacques' cabin
  (no double door) and not the door to the train car (ditto).  Perhaps
  it's the "gate" from this supernatural netherworld that we're beginning
  to believe exists.  But it sure seems to be that doorway in Corridor #2.

> > If this is Ronette's dream, it is a subjective view, right?  That would mean 
> > BOB was running at Ronette, not Laura.  The show cuts directly to Ronette in 
> > her room, she is reacting to the dream by throwing her arms in front of her,
> > presumably to fend off BOB.

  We wondered about this too.  I'm not sure how the dreams of a someone
  who has been in a coma and was certainly on drugs and scared stiff at the
  time that she is remembering should be interpreted.

> > Third sequence has the camera looking up at BOB, viciously beating the 
> > subject, alternating with views of demonic Laura screaming, blood in her 
> > mouth.  Again, if this subjective view, BOB is beating Ronette.  That jives 
> > with the fact that Laura dies of many small wounds inflicted by Waldo the 
> > bird, while Ronette had the heavy bruises and more serious wounds.  Also, 
> > BOB and Laura are seen from different angles, so I don't think Laura's 
> > face is being superimposed over BOB's, or they are the same person, or any 
> > of those theories.  I can't tell where they are (cabin or rail car).

  It looks like a vicious beating to me too.  But one of my roommates 
  thinks he trying to get Laura's heart to beat!  Hard to buy.
  I tend to agree that he is probably beating Ronnette, since she is
  flailing to defend herself while remembering this.
  
> > Fourth sequence shows BOB sqatting over Laura, definitely now in the rail 
> > car.  We see cuts to the mound of dirt and the "Fire--walk with me" note.
> > The camera lingers on dead Laura's face, then pans down her body and up BOB's
> > body.  BOB is squatting, his hand on his knee (not the snout of an animal--
> > sheesh!).  We catch a glimpse of his face; he is *sad*, even crying I think. 
> > Then he looks to the sky and screams, in what sounds to me like *grief* 
> > (yeah, it's hard to tell with the sound effects).  

  Yep.  I almost think he came in after the "third man" had practically
  killed Laura, knew she was going to die, thought Ronnette had something 
  to do with it, beat Ronnette for revenge and then cried for Laura.
  Perhaps BOB is upset because he wanted to be the instrument of Laura's
  demise, and is down-right pissed that someone else beat him to it.
  In which case, we can expect him to try and exact more vengeance in
  the upcoming episodes.

> > Reviewing this changed my thinking completely.  I think BOB is not Laura's 
> > killer at all, but was her lover and grieved her death.  The stuff at the 
> > rail car was some sort of pagan funeral ceremony BOB held for her, before 
> > "burying" her in the river.  It was BOB who attacked Ronette, possibly in 

  Funeral ceremony?  Perhaps.  It seems to me that the Log Lady has
  established a link between fire and the devil (actually telling Coop
  that "Fire is the Devil"), so I've always taken the "Fire...Walk With Me"
  to mean "Walk with the Devil"  or something like that.  Perhaps BOB is
  a devil worshipper.

> > revenge for her killing (or having part in) killing Laura, possibly in a fit 
> > with (assuming she was already dead when BOB finds her)?  I think this third 
> > man was the one who tied Laura up the second time.  Hey, have they said how 
> > (ugh!) to the third man's identity.  Also, how did Bob get Laura (esp. if dead)
> > and Ronette to the rail car?  

  Since we see Laura's screaming face a few times in the final scene, I kinda 
  figured that she was still alive when BOB showed up, but near death.
  Laura was tied up in the cabin when Leo left and Jacques was not conscious.
  Perhaps Ronnette untied Laura and they went to train car alone and were
  interrupted by someone.  Or perhaps a third man whom they trusted came
  to the cabin and untied Laura and led the girls to the car.  
  In any case, the third man essentially kills Laura.  BOB shows up and
  acts as we've figured out, then leaves.  Then Leo shows up and figures
  he better clean up 'cause this mess could linked to him.  So he ties
  Laura up again (Ronnette has left the cabin already), drives home
  (maybe he knows that Shelley's working), wraaaaps her in plaaaastic
  (we saw a lot of plastic in his house; he's renovating), and drives
  to the lake and dumps her body.

  There's probably lots of holes in this argument, 'cause I haven't really
  thought it over yet.  For example, why the letter under the nail?

  Comments?

    Herb...

The scene in which Killer Bob comes running toward the camera, ending
with the shot of his teeth, was definately filmed in the hospital
corridor. If you frame through the begining of that sceen, you can see
the exit sign above the door, the two sets of hinges of double doors,
and the two thirds-tiled walls, all of which are not identical to but
nearly the same as in the third long shot of the corridor.  Since
Ronette most likely hasn't actually witnessed this event, it makes one
wonder how much of the rest of her vision is based on actual fact. Was
she there as a wittness to the event, or is this merely another vision
of the act ?
Also, why did the Giant wave his hand over Cooper's face/body
(unaccompanied by the mysticl light) before presumably disappearing and
immediately re-appearing, mystical light in tact?  Any Comments?

-d koltas

(I tried to post earlier, but there seemed to be a problem, so this is
my second attempt at posting on the same subject.)

At least one poster has referred to the idea that Cooper is
infallible (e.g. "I am not dreaming" implies that the Giant
is real.).  Is this true?  I can think of two things that seem
like mistakes to me:
1.  Coop wants to know who J is so he throws rocks at the Bottles.
    He comes up with Leo.  Now he thinks that J is James.  Of
    course you could argue that the rocks were answering a broader
    question like, "Who is the baddest on this list that didn't
    actually kill LP?"

2.  Coop says something like, "Find whoever has the other half
    of this heart and we'll know who the killer is."  Either
    James/Jacoby is the killer or the info about Jacoby finding
    the heart is a major clue.  But as one poster pointed out
    the whole heart thing seems innocent now.  Unless of course
    there are two hearts, one she shared with James and one she
    shared with BOB.

I dunno, but it seems like we can't trust everything Coop says,
although he is still one cool dude. -andy

Disclaimer: This is not the opinion of the FBI, or any other
government agency including any that I might work for.

hey, i watch twin peaks, and i think its cool.
but u gotta realize, we're spending more time analyzing
this on netnews than we do watching the show.
probably more than we spend with our loved ones.
WE'RE LOSING OUR MINDS!!!!
its getting like a joke, like when they all watch
that inane soap opera, "Another World." on the show
we all laugh at that, right? its very cute.
does the name Dr. Brian O'Blivion ring a bell?
so kill me.

In article <1855@s5.Morgan.COM> maus@honest_crocus.morgan.com (Malcolm Austin) writes:
> >
> >Has it occurred to anyone (or am I the last) that both of these "glitches" are
>from the very same cocoanut?  Coincidence?  I think not!  Maybe Donna found 
> >the wrong nut!
> >
> >Theories: 
> >1) There are two cocoanuts, with different contents.  Maybe they zip back and
> >forth between worlds like the giant/dwarf.  (Who are the same. :^)

The Warren Commission was recently reconvened to watch the tapes of
Twin Peaks. They assure us that there was only one coconut. This is
known as the Single Coconut Theory. It proves that Killer BOB acted
alone, even though he was murdered by Mike of the Ruby Slippers and
One Arm before he could be brought to trial. And Glinda is the Spirit
of the Woods.

But enough free association...

-- Dave Mack

In article <1990Oct4.203008.15992@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> ceblair@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Charles Blair) writes:
> >
> >  Q: Why was the person who shot Cooper wearing a mask?
> >
> >  A: Because he or she did not want to be identified by Cooper.

Or by the senile waiter.

> >  Q: But wasn't Cooper supposed to be dead?
> >
> >  A: No.  The idea was to incapacitate him.  The assailant knew
> >     Cooper was wearing a bulletproof vest.  If it hadn't been for
> >     the tick, he wouldn't have been seriously wounded.

Drivel. Shooting an FBI agent in the bulletproof vest with the expectation
that he won't be seriously hurt sounds like a real good way to get a
.357 slug in the head. FBI agents are known to react violently when
you pump three slugs into them. You have to watch yourself around
people like that.

-- Dave Mack

I've been mulling this for a couple of days, and keep coming up with an
unlikely killer: Officer Andy Brennan.

Note these things:

- Andy cried at the sight of Laura's body.

- The one time Andy did anything well was when he shot Jacques
  Renault.

- A lot of the time, Andy seems too innocent and dumb to be
  believed.

My theory (stolen from Ann Elk): Andy had heard of Jacques and Leo's
orgies, and was following the rumour. Leo or Jacques, seeing a possible
stooge and an in at the police force for information, befriended him and
invited him along. Andy showed up late to the get together on the 23rd,
saw Jacques get beaten up by Leo, and saw Leo run away. Andy took the girls
down to the railroad car (on the way home). There, Laura (and maybe Ronette
) had her way with Andy (much as she had with Harold). BOB entered Andy, and
drove Andy to over-respond in one of Laura's S&M games, killing her and
beating up Ronette. Andy (dazed and still posessed) wrapped the body up and
dumped it in the river. 

The next morning, when Andy saw the body, he realised what he had done, and
cried. He didn't tell anyone, though -- but when he saw his chance to
get revenge on Jacques for starting the whole thing (as he saw it), he did.

Andy is probably the one man who we would consider the >least< likely to
have done it, except for, perhaps, Dr. Hayward. That's a clue in itself.

--
Joe Zitt...cs.utexas.edu!kvue!zitt!joe (512)450-1916

Early Signs of Agent Cooper's Fallibility.

For sometime Twin Peaks watchers have assumed that Special Agent
Dale Cooper could do no wrong, that he was an ace sleuth, a deductive
duece, and telepathic to boot.  Well, as with several other characters
the new season reveals that Coop just might be less than he seems.
For example, when Coop takes the heart from James and James
replies that he lifted it from Jacobi, Coop replies, in near disbelief,
"Jacobi!...I didn't think he had anything to do with this at all."  Wait
just one minute Agent...didn't Jacobi's rock nick the bottle?
Also, Coop is wrong about James.  He tells Truman that if
James had had the necklace he would have given it to them to help
with the investigation.  Wrong.  James and Donna hid the necklace
from them (I think to impede the investigation).
Coop leaves Audrey hanging.  Coop refers to Jacques death
as a "strangulation" when in fact he was suffocated.  Coop can't
give any details about the person who shot him (Albert comes up with
more than Cooper does)...like what the person smelled like, like
if it was a man or woman, ect...
All in all Coop's beginning to act like a real FBI agent...

Jeffrey St. Clair

In article <8b2t8G200Vo9EXytF6@andrew.cmu.edu>, es2j+@andrew.cmu.edu (Edward John Sabol) writes...

} I'm interested in getting some Twin Peaks quotes. Post e-mail me your
} favorite *AUTHENTIC* Twin Peaks quotes. I'll post a complete file with all
} quotes later.

It's not clear what you mean by "authentic". For instance...

} "Diane, 3 P.M. Just back from the Lydecker Clinic. While a llama may produce
} some of the finest wools prized around the world, their breath on the other
} hand could only be prized somewhere in the far reaches of llama hell."
}                        FBI Special Agent Dale Cooper, "Twin Peaks"

This is not from the show itself, but from "DIANE..." THE TWIN PEAKS TAPE
OF AGENT COOPER. Does that count as authentic?

-- "Diane, 9 AM. Preparing to board Flight 210. Commuter flight, 15 seater. Arriving in Spokane 10:15 AM. One meal: breakfast. Eggs, sausage, toast, jam, juice, and the usual coffee-scented hot water. What airlines do to coffee shouldn't happen to a dog." --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA) UUCP: ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian ARPA: boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM

In article <1990Oct5.023909.6489@morrow.stanford.edu>, andy@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Andy Michael USGS Guest) writes:
> > At least one poster has referred to the idea that Cooper is
> > infallible.

I said that once. He certainly doesn't fool easy.

> > I can think of two things that seem like mistakes to me:
> > 1.  Coop wants to know who J is so he throws rocks at the Bottles.
> >     He comes up with Leo.  Now he thinks that J is James. Of
> >     course you could argue that the rocks were answering a broader
> >     question [...]

The question asked was not who killed Laura Palmer. I forget what it
was exactly, something along the lines of which J is important to
how she died. Leo was the last person on the list who was with Laura
before she died.

> > 2.  Coop says something like, "Find whoever has the other half
> >     of this heart and we'll know who the killer is."

I gotta admit, he seems to have goofed on this one. Still, if Laura
told anyone about BOB, it would have been Jacoby.

---------- Ryan Mathews
-- Internet : mathews@cs.buffalo.edu Bitnet : mathews@sunybcs UUCP :{apple,cornell,decwrl,harvard,rutgers,talcott,ucbvax,uunet}! cs.buffalo.edu!mathews

 Did anyone notice that the second time Leland sings the song about
the "oats" that he changed one of the words.  When he was singing to Ben &
Jerry Horne, he says "...if the words sound queer, or MONEY to your ear..."
instead of "...if the words sound queer, or funny to your ear..."

 Was this something that was pretty obvious and I missed the first
few times?  Or did not many people catch it?

This seems to impy that he was either in on the saw mill deal or
new about it and now expects to reap financial gain.

The Disco Strangler

The Horne's are "horn-e" also.

In article <1990Oct5.054202.2788@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, slg20427@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Locutus of Borg) writes:
> > 
> >  Did anyone notice that the second time Leland sings the song about
> > the "oats" that he changed one of the words.  When he was singing to Ben &
> > Jerry Horne, he says "...if the words sound queer, or MONEY to your ear..."

That *would* explain why Ben and Jerry get happy feet at that point and
start to boogie all over the place.

I didn't understand that before; Ben and Jerry had always seemed annoyed at
Leland's antics, not amused.

---------- Ryan Mathews
-- Internet : mathews@cs.buffalo.edu Bitnet : mathews@sunybcs UUCP :{apple,cornell,decwrl,harvard,rutgers,talcott,ucbvax,uunet}! cs.buffalo.edu!mathews

In article <27810001@hprpcd.HP.COM> jimh@hprpcd.HP.COM (Jim Hickey) writes:
-One armed man in dream:
-  Through the darkness of future pasts,
-  The magician longs to see
-  One chance odds between two worlds,
-  Fire, walk with me.

I always thought it was:

One chants out between two worlds, "FIRE, WALK WITH ME."

Makes some sense?

--  maggie "I can't believe I'm staying up
till midnight posting about
a tv show" douglass

-- --scott douglass Any opinions above may be mine and are not necessarily those of Apple Computer. domain: scott@apple.com UUCP: {nsc, sun, voder, well, dual}!apple!scott CSNet: scott@Apple.CSNet AppleLink: Douglass1

I like the theory that Ronnette killed Laura.  That BOB
was in fact Laura's lover.  BOB passed by the cabin and was heard
by the log lady.  They went to the rail car where BOB was living.
Laura asked Ronnette to tie her up.  BOB had sex with both of them.
It was so good for Ronnette she wanted BOB for herself and Laura
wanted out anyway.  Ronnette killed Laura while BOB was out for a
piss.  He came back found Laura dead.  Became enraged.  Beat up
Ronnette a little.  Grieved for Laura.  Ronnette took this opportunity
to escape.  BOB prepares Laura's body.  Puts the "R" under her
finger as a clue for Coop.  Similar situation occured in the southern
part of the state.  Bout a year ago.  That time BOB's friend
Mike got enraged about BOB's affair with one Teresa Banks.  Mike
killed her.  Bob placed the "T" under her finger as a clue.  The
"T" doesn't stand for Teresa, but "The."  The One-armed man.

In article <1990Oct04.171156.22902@ism.isc.com> kirkl@pandora.ism.isc.com (Kirk Lillis) writes:
> >In article <30532@netnews.upenn.edu> hafken@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (David Hafken) writes:
>> >>
>> >>By the way, could someone let me know what Leland's first name is? --I forgot.
>> >>Thanks.
>> >>
>> >>Dave
> >
> >Mister?  As in Mister Leland Palmer.

Okay, okay, thank you ALL for your helpful observations -- I wrote this late
at night, and I obviously couldn't put 2 and 2 together.  At any rate, I
do think that Leland sounds more like a last name than a first name!

"Mister" Dave

umm, I would vote for "tweakies", or maybe "Twinkies" ohh, sorry
it's real late..

OK people - stupid question time.  Didn't Leland suffocate Jacques?  I
thought I heard Lucy tell Coop that Jacques was strangled.  Isn't
there a difference or is suffocate and strangle the same thing.  Or
did I just imagine this.  I haven't checked the tapes yet.

My stupid theory #927 is:

Laura talks in her diary of writing her fantasy down and submitting
to Flesh World for publication.  Jacques and Leo have promised her
that if her fantasy is published they will enact it for her.

I'm willing to bet Lucy and Andy find Laura's fantasy.  Perhaps her
fantasy involves train cars.  Perhaps her killer is not BOB, but
someone who is enacting her fantasy with her which would mean BOB
is still out and about and properly pissed that his toy has been 
taken away.

She also talks about what weird sex things she finds stimulating
and what she does not.  She likes mysterious dark, but not 
terrifying dark.  She likes men who take soft control, but don't
take over, etc.  

Obviously, her fantasy in the train car was not re-enacted to her
specifications.

Yes, I know - I'm consumed with trying to make the diary and show
come together.  My life hinges on Jennifer Lynch's statement that
careful reading of the diary will reveal the killer.  I think
BOB is too simplistic.  BOB as a psychopathic murderer - that is.
BOB has been very, very careful not to get caught molesting Laura
lo these many years.  He certainly would have exercised more care
about leaving clues when he killed her.  He would not have left
Ronette alive to identify him.

Connie

Me again.  One more oddity to comment on.  When Benjamin gives the
contract to the Icelander (?) to sign it is clearly an Assignment
of Contract.  Could be an interesting legal maneuver - I don't 
know about state law in Washington, but I once worked as a paralegal
and an assignment of contract was used to dump a piece of real estate
at no profit.  Did Benjamin get money or did he just assign a part
interest in the land or is this something altogether different.

Connie

Connie writes:

}2.  Diary again.  Initials again.  The several unseen persons in the
}    woods ought to be listed with Leo Johnson.  Are the initials in
}    code?  I worked out a code which makes the first entry of B. convert
}    to Z (possibly Zippy in the diary).  Converts J.H. to L.J. (Leo 
}    Johnson), etc.  Am I stretching things here.  Is this a continuity
}    error in the diary?  Bobby Briggs becomes D.D.

I think you're backing up the wrong tree here. Most of the initials seem
to be allusions to the production staff of `Twin Peaks':

D.L.David Lynch
M.F.Mark Frost
D.D.Duwayne Dunham(the editor and one of the directors)
H.P.Harley Peyton(writer and director)

B.E.Robert Engles(?)
S.C.Scott Cameron(?)
T.T.R.Tina Rathbone(?)

"What's there to smile about?" -- Lucy

For those of you who get impatient with "red herrings" try thinking of
the mystery as a framework for social commentary.  Every scene is there
for a reason.  If not to help solve the mystery, then to tell us something,
to develope characters, or to let us in on the way the world of Twin Peaks
works.

Some random musings:

If the killer is associated with the supernatural, then Leland might be a
good choice.  His hair turned white overnight.

Donna is smoking because, as the Log Lady says, "the devil hides behind
smoke."
 Doug van der Veen

In article <1990Oct4.020714.17082@supernet.haus.com>, cluther@supernet.haus.com (Clay Luther) writes...

> >What I don't understand is why everyone thinks Bob was screaming or howling.

> >He was, most definitely, laughing, in quadraphonic no less.

I don't agree.  The harmonizer placed on his voice served to obscure what 
would be the most telling part of his howl/laugh; the spaces in between 
bursts.  Was it hhAAAAAhhhAAAAAhhhAAAA, or wwAAAAAwwAAAAwwAAA ?  The strength
of the effect made the more subtle bits more obscure.  I still believe the
vowel quality was sorrow, but it's hard to tell with an obviously disturbed
man.

******************************************************************************
Mike Cluff*   One who knows does not post;
v22964qs@ubvms or mike%luick@ubvms*       One who posts does not know.
UB Language Perception Laboratory*         (apologies to Lao Tzu)
******************************************************************************

In article <8603@milton.u.washington.edu> howells@earth.arc.nasa.gov writes:

}Oh come on! Absolutely ridiculous!

What's ridiculous about it?  

That "Boyle smokes like a chimney and apparently would go bananas during
shoots when she wasn't able to have a drag while doing a scene"?

Well I can buy this.  Being an ex-heavy-smoker I can see how Boyle would
be bothered by not being allowed to smoke during a scene.  I'm certain
that acting is stressful, particularly TV acting with all of its' time
and budget constraints (few retakes).  Boyle probably was going nuts.

Or "Donna's cigarette smoking was done to accomodate her [Boyle], on top
of showing something weird happening with Donna"?

What's the problem with accomadating the actress since it fits so well
with Donna's weirdness?  Even if the writers hadn't originally intended
that smoking being evidence of Donna's personality change it works so why
not accomidate Boyle?

-- William W. White {att|pyramid|killer}!osu-cis!sppy00!www **** These are my views, not my employer's (standard disclaimer) ****

In article <59626@bbn.BBN.COM>, saustin@bbn.com (Steve Austin) writes:
> > jym@remarque.berkeley.edu (Jym Dyer) writes:

>> > >|H|ere is how the heart or hearts appear, in chronological order:

> > [ stuff describing how Laura's heart was fond on a chain
> >   and James' half was found on a thong ]

>> > >    Make of it what you will.

> > So no mystery here! My Holmesian deductive powers lead me to conclude
> > that Laura kept her half on a dainty chain, while James kept his on a
> > manly thong.

> > I'll be submitting my application to join Coop in the FBI in due course.

But now we know that James got the half-heart from the coconut,
and when he got the half-heart, it was on a chain. We now know
that Jacoby [claims to have] dug up the half-heart after James
and Donna buried it, and when Jacoby got it, it was on a thong.

Finally, we know that when Cooper got the half-heart from James,
it was back on a thong.

Did James feel compelled to put the half-heart back on a manly thong,
because he couldn't bring himself to leave it on a dainty chain?

Continuity glitch, or telegram?
-- Jim Ingram uunet!h-three!jimi | jimi%h-three@uunet.uu.net h-three Systems Corporation P.O. Box 12557 RTP NC 27709 919 549 8334

dear dorks 
 you  guys seem to be overanalyzing  this completely
and i think that for the most part the better half of you are stupid
and that Twin Peaks is not different thaN days of our lives
well the point im trying to make is  to shut  up cause none
of you no nothing. i rule i know everything 
     thank  you 
     Sean

I seem to recall Sheryl Lee (Laura-Madeleine) saying on Donahue last year that
 she had originally been hired only to be Laura's dead body and to appear in a
couple of still photos (i.e., Laura's homecoming-queen photo).  Apparently
 Lynch took a liking to her and THEN created the character of Madeleine for
 her in addition to putting her in Wild at Heart.  If the character of Maddy
 was created well into the season, as Lee seems to have said, then the Laura-
 is-Madeleine theory would appear to be kind of blown out of the water. (If
Lynch didn't know he'd be hiring the same actress again, he couldn't have
planned on a double role.)  OK, I realize that there are ways around this:
     1.  They're making it up as they go along.  Either Lynch, Frost, Inc.
 didn't know who the killer was when they started (which I personally highly
 doubt) or they just liked Sheryl Lee SO much that they changed their entire
 plot line to give her a bigger role.  This too is pretty doubtful.
     2.  Sheryl was lying.  They could have planted her with things to say on
 Donahue so that TP-detectives would be misled.  I doubt this too, as what she
          said appeared to be spontaneous , but it could be just another
 exceptionally clever red herring.

Opinions?

 P.S. Can we please have LESS posting?  I mean, upwards of 100 messages a day
 is just too much.  I'm not saying hold back on theories, but respond to
  people's personal questions on e-mail, and try to avoid repeating the same
 basic gist of someone else's posting.

 Thanks,

         Beth

In article <1990Oct2.172714.22071@odin.corp.sgi.com> wendy-o@finkle.corp.sgi.com (wendy wilson) writes:
> >Anyway "The owls are not what they seem" Ben and Jerry *Horne* as in
> >Horned Owls maybe.  They are in the woods, evil in the woods.  They (Ben
> >and Jerry) are not what they seem, respectable businessmen.
> >  
> >I don't know just a guess, any comments.
> >
> >wendy-o



What?!  Ben and Jerry Horn not respectable businessmen?  Preposterous!

Next thing, you'll tell me that Polly Adler was the madame of a whorehouse!


--Barbara


--
Barbara HlavinReason, an ignis fatuus of the mind,
twain@blake.acs.washington.eduWhich leaves the light of nature, 
U Washington AI-10/Seattle 98195Sense, behind.  -John Wilmot

In the definitive sleaze biography of Elvis Presley, "Elvis", Albert
Goodman suggests on page 339 that The King referred to his penis by
the euphemism of "Little Elvis". Do you think the TP script writers
have read this book? If they haven't they should. If you haven't,
and like the twisted and bizarre then _you_ should!

Jesse Thorn
thorn@godot.radonc.unc.edu

At the video store I ran into a movie called "the owl called my name".
Tom Courtenay is a catholic priest/missionary in a small Indian village
in British Columbia.  (This is about present-day British Columbia,
and the chief is just an ordinary looking old man)

The scene where they talk about owls...

Chief rowing a boat in the sea, TC sits in front of boat, Chief tries
to teach TC some indian words...
Chief--(says indian word for raven)
TC--What is that?
Chief--They say the an old chief kept the sun in a box.  The raven
stole the sun from the box and put it in the sky for all of us to see.
And the owl...
TC--the owl calls your name when you are ready to die.
Chief--Yes.  In the old days, when a child died, the mother would 
kick the body three times, saying, "Don't look back, don't turn your
head, walk straight on, for you are going to the land of the owls."
Most of our legends are about death.  It is something we know about.

In article <1158600084@cdp> forestwatch@cdp.UUCP writes:
> >
> >The Horne's are "horn-e" also.

The Devil has "hornes", too!
--
 Daniel Pearl      Concurrent Computer Corporation, Westford, Massachusetts USA
(508) 392-2478danny@westford.ccur.com

In article <1990Oct4.203008.15992@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> ceblair@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Charles Blair) writes:
> >  Q: But wasn't Cooper supposed to be dead?
> >
> >  A: No.  The idea was to incapacitate him.  The assailant knew
> >     Cooper was wearing a bulletproof vest.  If it hadn't been for
> >     the tick, he wouldn't have been seriously wounded.

Where has this been established?

-- Scott Amspoker Basis International, Albuquerque, NM (505) 345-5232 unmvax.cs.unm.edu!bbx!bbxsda!scott

In the dark woods, I saw her smiling.

We were crying, and she was laughing.

In our sadness, I saw her dancing.

It was Laura, living in my dreams.



David Lynch's OBSESSION



("Oh, the stench of it.")


[Sorry.  Couldn't resist.  Here's the rest of the poem.]

It was Laura.  The glow was life.

Her smile was to say, it was all right to cry.

The woods was our sadness.  The dance was her calling.

It was Laura, and she came to kiss me good-bye.

[Disclaimer: I don't know that C/D/M is responsible for the Calvin Kline ads.
Don't care, either.]
--
===============================================================================
Malcolm Austin -- maus@fir.morgan.com 
Disclaimer (v.), to unarm an opponent wielding a Scottish broadsword
===============================================================================

In article <7403@darkstar.ucsc.edu>, horny@ucscb.ucsc.edu (Michael Kaye) writes:
|> Perhaps this post will seem a little off the deep end, but bear with me
|> and keep an open mind.

Okay....


|> Twin peaks is filled with recurring symbols.  In many, many scenes,
|> the following images appear:  Fish, Antlers, Indian Totems.
|> Often these are on the wall, directly above characters heads.
|> In the security box bank scene, antlers dominate the foreground.
|> The examples are too numerous to list so I won't even try.

Personally, I would be surprised if a show set in the Pac NW DIDN'T
contain lots of fish, antlers, indian totems, douglas firs, pro-timber
advocates (the sign in the double R), owls (spotted, perhaps?), waterfalls,
mills, hick jokes, log cabins, etc.

Of course, I wouldn't deny that Frost & Lynch could try to make just about
everything symbolize something, but this idea is pretty wild.

|> ---Michael Kaye       horny@ucscb.ucsc.edu

David Hollingsworth

In article <23660002@hpihoah.HP.COM> schinner@hpihoah.HP.COM (Jim Schinnerer) writes:

>> >>know the actual age of Sherrilyn Fenn?  Clearly, she's not 18...
> >
> >She's 23.

When was "Two Moon Junction" made?  I.E. how old was she is that?

Charu Chaubal
Univ of PA

   In a previous posting, I suggested Catharine is holding Josie
prisoner.  This doesn't seem to have gotten much agreement, so let
me try to make a case:

(1) You've almost been killed inside a burning building.  You get
out and go somewhere.  You have a gun.  You have reason to suspect
one of your housemates of trying to kill you.  What would any
soap opera character do?

(2) I thought the note Pete read to Harry sounded like something
written at gunpoint, but maybe I'm prejudiced.

(3) If we assumed the man who called while Harry was with Pete is
an associate of Josie's, then she was planning to talk to him, not
be out of town.

   The main objection I can see is what Hank said to Ben and Jerry.
Josie may have said something of this kind to Hank, truthfully or
not, under duress or not.  Remember, Josie is either planning to
double-cross Ben, or is afraid they will double-cross her.

   Also, this is not completely inconsistent with Josie as the person
who shot Cooper.

       AND DON'T FORGET TO BUY THESE FINE TWIN PEAKS PRODUCTS

            Plastic Wrap
            Camcorders (with zoom-in features available nowhere else)
            Ledger books (two for one special)
            Cotton balls
            Twine
            Percolators (makes DAMN good stuff--- and we don't mean coffee)
            Ear plugs

I see many knowledgeable folks out there wrt. TP..
I have seen 1st episode and few more during the reruns...
I like it but I am sort of confused with plethora of names etc.
Can some knowledgeable person post brief character summaries?
ie..what they do etc. so that we all can enjoy TP a little better..

This format is fine..
Agent Cooper : FBI agent, came to TP to investigate the LP case.

Thanks in advance,

Harish

PS: BTW  I enjoyed the timeline some one posted a while ago.
    thanks for good work!
--
Harish Dindigal                               Email: dindigal@rodan.acs.syr.edu
152 Oakland St. #2                            Phone: (315)-475-5856   
Syracuse NY 13210

One thing that I haven't seen in the discussion of Donna's changed
personality was a (then) cryptic scene in Episode 1 from last season.
Donna comes to visit Sarah Palmer.  They sit on a couch, Donna stage
right, Sarah stage left.  They talk about missing Laura until Sarah
winds up saying ``I miss her so much'' over and over.  At this point,
she looks at Donna and sees Laura's face superimposed over Donna's.
She cries ``Laura'', grasps one of Donna's hands in one of hers, and
places her other arm around Donna.  At this point, she sees the first
vision of Killer Bob, the same one that Cooper will see near the
beginning of his dream.

As far as I can tell, this vision of Killer Bob (but not necessarily
Cooper's second vision of him, when Bob speaks) is in Laura's bedroom.
Killer Bob is crouching at the foot of Laura's bed, and the point of
view is that of someone positioned on or next to the bed.  (Why do I
say Laura's bed(room)?  The part of the bedframe that Bob is crouching
behind seems to be the same as that we can see, somewhat murkily, when
Hawk is gathering up items from Laura's bedroom, as Leland watches.
Also, there's a dark frame, either a closet door or a window, at the
foot of Laura's bed that is positioned in the same place in the vision
of Killer Bob).

So, Sarah sees Donna's face change into Laura's, clasps Donna's hand,
and then has a vision, which seems to be from Laura's point of view.
``Submitted for your consideration.''

There were other clues, pointed out here by others, that Donna's
motivation was not as clear-cut as might first appear.  In fact, I
think that Cooper's statement that James would have given them the
necklace, but that someone or something scared him off, is meant to
remind us of theses incidents, since Donna is this ``someone''.  It is
Donna who wants James to get rid of the necklace.  Remember that she
first ask James to give her the necklace (as she later asks Maddy to
give her Laura's glasses?) and that it is James who comes up with the
idea of burying it, since he is afraid that the necklace will
incriminate her.  When Donna and James discover that the necklace is
missing, James wants to go to the police, and it is Donna who talks
him out of it, first using the argument that only they love Laura, not
the police, and then, in effect, seducing him.  And, of course,
there's the much commented on agreement with Audrey, where everything
discovered stays between them.

At any rate, I don't think that Donna's new personality is completely
out of the blue, although the indications that all is not right with
her have gone, rather abruptly, from subtle to blatant.

A little more on Sarah's vision of Killer Bob.  When Sarah grasps
Donna's hand, and during her vision, there is a rumbling sound, very
similar to the sound that accompanies Maddy's vision.  The major
difference between them, as far as I can tell, is that the crackling
sound (of fire?  splintering trees?  a forest fire?) is present only
during Maddy's vision.

Finally, on the question of whether Sarah and Maddy are in the same
place when they have their respective visions.  When Maddy has her
vision, she is sitting stage left and Sarah is sitting stage right, so
Maddy is in the same relative position.  However, the question is
complicated by the fact that the room's furnishings are somewhat
different in the two scenes.  Both Donna and Sarah, and Sarah and
Maddy, are seated in front of the screen, which seems to indicate that
they are in the same place.  However, Donna and Sarah are seated on a
couch, with a table between them and the screen, while Sarah and Maddy
are seated on two chairs, with nothing between them and the screen.
There are also other differences between the two scenes.  Did the
sets from the first season get torn down and need to be rebuilt?  This
would also explain the missing VCR in Leo's house.

-30-
Bob

P.S.  When will people stop taking my name in vain?  I'm a
mild-mannered person, who never has any violent thoughts.

Il faut que le bourreau fout sa victime; cela est indispensable.

...been reviewing Episode 2 of the first season, and had a couple
interesting bits to mention...

Cooper gets a call from Hawk, where he first gets news about the One-Armed
Man in the hospital.  ** The Phone is on the bedstand, NOT near the door
as in the last episode of the season.  ** Weird.  He also gets a knock
on the door, as he hangs up the phone.  This is the FIRST time he gets
a note from Audrey.  ("Jack with One Eye").

Now, in the woods...  Mike, Bobby, Leo, and Mr(s). X.

...

Bobby:<Shrug> 
"Ok, we won't take delivery on the drugs until you get the cash."

Leo:"Do I look like a bank?!?"

Bobby:"But this thing with Laura; how can I anticipate that kind of thing?"
"Aeh?" (Or, it could be "Man?", as Leo grabs Bobby's shirt)

Leo:"Hey man, Laura was a wild girl."

Bobby:"Tell me about it!"

<Pause, Leo appears to think ("Hey Look!  It's tryin' to think!")>

Leo:"Maybe......   Some day ....."

Point being, as I missing this in the first viewing, that I bet
Leo can tell Bobby LOTS of things he didn't know about JUST how
wild Laura was!

<points gun at Mike>  "Take your hand outta your pocket, MIKE!"

Bobby:"What is your problem, Leo?"

Leo:"Problem?  You wanna hear about problems?.."

[ He goes one to tell about while he's on the road, his old lday
is "steppin' out", right in his own bedroom.  Bobby wants to know
if Leo knows who it is, Leo says he's takin' care of it, then he
finally tells them to go out for a pass after pointing his
shotgun at them.  Run!  Take it easy!  RUN!  Take it easy!]

They get back to the car, JUST as the football hits the hood, and
they both jump slightly.

Mike:"Dammit, I'm done, Bobby."

Bobby:"Let's get the hell outta here."

<They get in and drive off>

This is the last time we see Mike.  Werry Eentervesting!

Also:
When Shelly was watching "Invitation To Love" on the T.V. on
that morning (Sunday morning), there was no VCR on the T.V.  Shelly
and Leo must move it around a bit.  The only thing left on the 
T.V. was the remote control that Shelly puts next to Leo's portrait
after she shuts off the television.


Finally, the episode ends with Cooper awakening from his dream to
again use the phone the bedstand to call Truman.  He tells him to
meet him [Coop] in the Hotel Lobby at 7 AM, because he knows who
killed Laura Palmer.  THhe best part of this scene is the 
Perfectly Cooper cow-lick he's got in his hair.  The hair on his
head is just abour perfect on the right side of his head, but the
left side is pointing straight up in the air, possible only
because of the wonder of modern hair mousse's.  Classic.


Joshua
joshua@altair.csustan.edu
joshua@csustan.csustan.edu

> >Andy is probably the one man who we would consider the >least< likely to
> >have done it, except for, perhaps, Dr. Hayward. That's a clue in itself.
> >

nah, Audrey Horne's brother is.  If he is old enough to be considered a man.

Kevin

.-.
|O|r maybe it was little Elvis.  That sure makes a lot more sense
`-' than Waldo!
    <_Jym_>

P.S.:  The "Waldo killed Laura" theory is total yeesh city.

FYI:  according to the latest _Playboy_ "spoilers", Sherilyn Fenn will be
appearing in a "torrid pictorial" in next month's issue.

I can smell some GIF's on the way.... 
--
         ______________________________________________________________________
        / steve@archone.tamu.edu    / Surely you don't think I do this for    /
       / srr2632@venus.tamu.edu    / fun?  I'm getting PAID.                 /
      /___________________________/_________________________________________/

In article <480@kaos.MATH.UCLA.EDU> sherman@math.ucla.edu (William Sherman) writes:
> >- Another inconsistency (albeit a teensy one) is Mr. Battis' first name.
> >The Secret Diary says he's "Amory Battis", but his nameplate on his desk
> >says "Emory Battis".

Perhaps "Amory" might be a play on words, based on a cross between his name
and "amour", since he is involved with One Eyed Jack's.  It could have even
have been a pet name ...

-- Carlo Sgro Not a card-carrying member of the watmath!watcgl!electro!carlo Laurie Bower Singers Fan Club.

In article <22093@spudge.UUCP> johnm@spudge.UUCP (John Munsch) writes:
> >Ok, if you taped the premiere and haven't watched it yet, SKIP THIS ARTICLE!!
> >
> >
> >3:  We didn't find the diary this episode but we probably will next week.  Even
> >though I like the theory that Donna was somehow involved with Laura's murder I
> >think the fact that she will likely be the one to get the diary (while working
> >on Meals on Wheels) and turn it over to the authorities blows that theory.

Donna has yet to turn anything over to the police, and actually talked James 
into burying the heart necklace to *prevent* the police finding it.  If she 
finds the secret diary, I doubt Cooper will see it for quite a while!  

brad@chips.com

> > The scorch mark is moving . . .
.-.
|C|learly, the Palmers need to get their carpets Scorchguarded.
`-' <_Jym_>

Whoops!

BOB, running as a sub-process in Emacs, trashed the first line of Harriet's
poem.  Here's a (straight) reposting for anyone looking for clues. 

(Gersten did it, and Dr. Hayward, Donna, and Maddy are covering it up!  
That's why she's been out of town until now!  I mean, she's wearing Laura's 
clothes from WILD AT HEART!  How obvious can you get?  A definite Lynchian 
touch!)

It was Laura, and I saw her glowing.
In the dark woods, I saw her smiling.
We were crying, and she was laughing.
In our sadness, I saw her dancing.
It was Laura, living in my dreams.

It was Laura.  The glow was life.
Her smile was to say, it was all right to cry.
The woods was our sadness.  The dance was her calling.
It was Laura, and she came to kiss me good-bye.

[There are two smileys hidden in this message.  Can you find them?  Oops!  Now
there are three.]
--
===============================================================================
Malcolm Austin -- maus@fir.morgan.com 
Disclaimer (v.), to unarm an opponent wielding a Scottish broadsword
===============================================================================

At the end of the season premiere, we see BOB howling either with
laughter or anguish, or both. Yet the log lady only heard one voice,
"...one man passed by. Screams. Far away. Terrible. Terrible. One voice."
Cooper: "Man or girl?"
Log Lady: "Girl. Further up the ridge, the owls were silent."

Was this Laura, as we do see a rather maniacal-looking Laura screaming
in Ronette's vision/dream/memory.

ed

-- "Are you suggesting there is something... irregular at work here?" Edwin Nomura enomura@sdcc13.ucsd.edu

In article <1990Oct3.023721@cs.Buffalo.EDU> mathews@cs.Buffalo.EDU (Ryan D Mathews) writes:
> >
> >In article <1990Oct3.014732.3708@cadence.com>, phz@cadence.com (Pete Zakel) writes:
>> >> Of course, this is all my theory, but it fits EVERYTHING given to us so
>> >> far.  The theories that BOB is Laura completely ignore clues that are
>> >> plainly put in front of our faces.
> >
> >I've said it before and I'll say it again.
> >
> >How do you know that what Ronnette is "seeing" is what actually happened?
> >That is one seriously hurting girl lying in that hospital.
> >
We don't. That's not the point.

I think you should reread Pete's article, you are assuming that the clues
he mentions are from Ronnette's visions. There is evidence, evidence that 
the characters in the plot are aware of, that proves there was a third man
(or shall I say fifth person) outside Leo's Cabin. 

O.K., let's assume that BOB=Laura. Now, who is the fifth person, the one
that Hawk found evidence of outside of Leo's Cabin?   


Kirk Breault                                                          
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"That was back in the days when we thought monogamy was a type of hardwood."
                                -- Kay (the Wombat)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ciao-

Well, I believe that the clue concerning "one without chemicals will
point the way" (sorry if this is worded incorrectly, please don't
flame me, I'm not wearing my Laura Palmer brand shades, & thus
not in a S&M mood.) refers to Dr. Jacoby. The scene in the hospital
has Dr. Hayward question a nurse as to Jacoby's odd (more than normal
that is) behavior asking her want is he on. She replies that only
what he (Hayward) prescribed, but he did eat a little food (obviously
a joke going along with the bad hospital food motif). Then in
walks Coop & he questions him about the tape, etc. Jacoby procedes
to say that Laura had decided to confort her problems, intimating
suicide; to which Coop denies. Yet, Jacoby goes on to imply that
though she may not have physical killed herself, she had a hand in
on the job. I have, upon reading the diary, felt that it was a
suicide. Okay so here is my theory. A long time ago people on
the net questioned the letter and under the nail, why the "r."
Someone mentioned that the letter "t" on the blackboard 
referred to "T" for "Teresa"--we now know that there was a "t" written
on the blackboard during Coop's Tibetian Baseball thingy. The same
person went on to say that what if the "r" actually referred to
"R" for "Ronette," & somehow Laura & Ronette got switched. Now,
I think this makes sense if you follow the suicide thingy. Laura
was involved in some heavy stuff, maybe she had a part in the
quasi-satanic murder of Teresa Banks, because of her involvement
with Killer Bob, or BOB. Anyway, it was to be her job to lead
Ronette to the slaughter. But, with her finally discovering who
BOB actually was. All her personality problems, her acts, etc.
she decided to end her life, & what better way to do it then
to switch with Ronette; having BOB, Killer Bob, whatever it
is think he is killing Ronette, hence the "r." Thus, at the end
during the remembrance/dream, scene the apperaed grief of the
attacker is as a result of his/its discovery of whom he/it
actually killed.

Now- I still say BOB her original molester, either Leland, Ben,
& I still cannot possibly rule out Doc Hayward, family night
at the Haywards sure was weird. On thing that made me freaked
was Harriet's poem, it was echos of Laura's dark, depressed poems
in her diary; seemed a little to similar for me. Then the way
the poem goes on about Laura coming in to see, her shades of BOB
& Laura. I think that BOB also refers to the psychological effected
Laura, or possessed Laura. Now does BOB=Killer Bob. Maybe the whole
thing about this dark force causing the inhabitants who follow
him/it/them to do this bestial things could be correct. A dualistic
universe, & a dualistic Twin Peaks. A world of Light/Goodness, &
One of Darkness/Evil...



   Considerate la vostra semenza:      ||  sally a. wilson
fatti non foste a viver come bruti,    ||  sally@mica.berkeley.edu
ma per seguir virtute e canoscenza.    ||  "il inferno":
_Inferno_ Canto XXVI vv.118-120.       ||  damn good poem, & hot too!

In article <90278.111920BXJ101@psuvm.psu.edu> BXJ101@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
> >I seem to recall Sheryl Lee (Laura-Madeleine) saying on Donahue last year that
> > she had originally been hired only to be Laura's dead body and to appear in a
> >couple of still photos (i.e., Laura's homecoming-queen photo).  Apparently
> > Lynch took a liking to her and THEN created the character of Madeleine for
> > her in addition to putting her in Wild at Heart.  If the character of Maddy
> > was created well into the season, as Lee seems to have said, then the Laura-
> > is-Madeleine theory would appear to be kind of blown out of the water.

I thought the same thing.  I read an interview with Sheryl Lee in the
local paper where she said that she was originally hired for 4 days
of shooting.  It was later that they decided to expand her part
in Twin Peaks.

I came to the same conclusion.  Maddy was added as an afterthought.

-- Scott Amspoker Basis International, Albuquerque, NM (505) 345-5232 unmvax.cs.unm.edu!bbx!bbxsda!scott

In article <1990Oct5.115617.1@acad3.fai.alaska.edu>, fssrk1@acad3.fai.alaska.edu writes...
> >dear dorks 
> > you  guys seem to be overanalyzing  this completely
> >and i think that for the most part the better half of you are stupid
> >and that Twin Peaks is not different thaN days of our lives
> >well the point im trying to make is  to shut  up cause none
> >of you no nothing. i rule i know everything 
> >     thank  you 
> >     Sean  


Can I be the first?  Oh, pleeeeeze?  Okay, here goes...

"Look, it's trying to think!"

******************************************************************************
Mike Cluff*   One who knows does not post;
v22964qs@ubvms or mike%luick@ubvms*       One who posts does not know.
UB Language Perception Laboratory*         (apologies to Lao Tzu)
******************************************************************************

In article <uoXJq1w163w@zitt> joe@zitt (Joe Zitt) writes:
> >I've been mulling this for a couple of days, and keep coming up with an
> >unlikely killer: Officer Andy Brennan.
> >
> >Note these things:
> >
> >- Andy cried at the sight of Laura's body.
> >
> >- The one time Andy did anything well was when he shot Jacques
> >  Renault.
> >
> >- A lot of the time, Andy seems too innocent and dumb to be
> >  believed.
> >


About 99% of the people who post here hypothesize in advance of the 
data, as some famous fictional detective was always warning people 
not to do.  I hope none of you ever serves on a jury that's trying 
*me* for anything!

Andy is a genuinely sweet, extremely sensitive innocent with a pure 
heart.  He is deeply moved and grieved by the harm people do each other.
He cries over the waste of death.  I can't recall the exact incident, 
but he has cried on occasions other than the identification of Laura's 
body. 

--Barbara 

--
Barbara HlavinMoab is my wash-pot; over Edom
twain@blake.acs.washington.eduwill I cast out my shoe; Philistia,
U Washington JC-21/Seattle 98105be thou glad of me.

In article <8843@helios.TAMU.EDU> steve@archone.tamu.edu (Steve Rikli) writes:

> >FYI:  according to the latest _Playboy_ "spoilers", Sherilyn Fenn will be
> >appearing in a "torrid pictorial" in next month's issue.
> >
> >I can smell some GIF's on the way.... 

Time to do some laundry then, Steve.  ;)

(Just wanted to register my opinion of the "GIFs of naked gurlz"
craze: <puke>.  Haven't you guys ever seen a naked woman before?)

-- Rod Johnson * rjohnson@vela.acs.oakland.edu * (313) 650 2315 "Dogs bark at strangers" -- Heraclitus

In article <1990Oct2.170348.21671@odin.corp.sgi.com> bam@sgi.com (Brian McClendon) writes:
> >
> >[...] Also, Catherine has to be alive, how did Shelly get out of the mill?
> >
Remember that Catherine was only in the drying shed (not the mill) because she 
got a call telling her the ledger was there.  She probably cut Shelly loose, 
maybe helped her out, then went back to looking for the ledger.  Remember, she
found Shelly almost as soon as she came in, and they were right next to the 
source of the fire.  She would have had time to search the rest of the shed 
before it became engulfed in flame.

Catherine could be dead, or hiding out plotting revenge.  Either is equally 
plausible, its up to Lynch/Frost to decide.

In article <5155@quiche.cs.mcgill.ca> zeke@quiche.cs.mcgill.ca (Eric SHAMASH) writes:
|Questions:
| 1. What was the evidence found at Leo's house?

A few things.  First, there were some pieces of glass or something inside
the house.  Then, under the loose board Andy "locates" :-) is some cocaine
and a brand new boot.

| 2. Did I miss a discussion about the possibility that Laura is alive, and
|    it was really Maddie who was killed (perhaps by Laura) so that she 
|    (Laura) could try to live a normal life as someone else (Maddie)?

It's been mentioned and discussed since the first time the episode
where Maddie shows up was shown, and is still being discussed (I just
read a bunch of articles about it).
-- Brian L. Matthews blm@6sceng.UUCP

In article <1990Oct5.115617.1@acad3.fai.alaska.edu> fssrk1@acad3.fai.alaska.edu writes:
 dear dorks 
  you  guys seem to be overanalyzing  this completely
 and i think that for the most part the better half of you are stupid
 and that Twin Peaks is not different thaN days of our lives
 well the point im trying to make is  to shut  up cause none
 of you no nothing. i rule i know everything 
      thank  you 
      Sean  

                
              Look, it's trying to think!

-Brian

I have always thought that the posted population (51,200?) on the 'Welcome to
Twin Peaks' sign was unreal.  Areas with 50,000 people are big towns
(or small cities).  Now I realize that owls and inhabitants from another
dimension (dwarfs, giants, killer BOB) must be taken into account when
computing the sum :-)

- Morrow

Diane....Ate 15 donuts today.  All jelly filled.  Getting ready to take my
shot of insulin....
(A non-official Agent Cooper quote from SNL 9/29)

-- H. Morrow Long Manager of Development Yale Univ. Comp Sci Dept. Computing Facility

In article <jgp.654853622@rutabaga> jgp@rutabaga.Rational.COM (Jim Pellmann) writes:

> > What was the S-N-A-G to which Jerry referred when summoning Ben from Audrey's
> >  room?  A snag in the mill burning plan?

The snag was that Hank was supposed to kill Leo, but as Leo is in a
coma, there's a change he'll pull out of it.  As previous to the mill-burning,
Ben told Catherine they'ld hold off a while on burning the mill & has
been otherwise setting her up, I suspect he wanted it to look like Catherine
had hired Leo to burn the mill, but got trapped in the fire through misfortune.
If Leo comes out of the coma, he'll know (or suspect) that he was set up by
Ben & may reveal to the Law that it was really Ben who hired Leo.  

We know this is the snag, because Ben is pretty pissed with Hank for not
having better aim.  He may also suspect that Leo was not just chopping
wood & might worry about the other witness to the attempted murder.


--
Michele Marques                      | UUCP: ....!utzoo!yunexus!michele
Help Desk, User Services             | Internet: michele@nexus.yorku.ca
Computing & Communications Services  | Bitnet:   michele@yuorion
York University                      | Voice:    +1-416-736-5800

If Laura killed herself, then why were there letters underneath her
fingernails?  Also, I believe that Leo did find Laura dead and he
wrapped her it the plastic.  Whose to say that Josie didn't just kill
her husband altogether.  With the way she schemes, it seem to be a good
possibility.  

Just my $0.02

-JHarvey
"I feel as if my lips were taped to the tailpipe of a bus."

boyajian@ruby.dec.com (Cisco's Buddy) writes:
> >In article <951@sppy00.UUCP>, www@sppy00.UUCP (Victor Shakapopolis) writes...
> >} I found the Giant rather interesting. I loved it when he re-appeared
> >} and mentioned that he forgot to tell Cooper something.  These
> >} supernatural-beings-from-another-realm are only human right? :-)

Is the Giant played by the same actor who portrayed Fidel in "The Witches
of Eastwick"?

> >Yes, I thought it was a nice touch that in the midst of all of this mystic
> >mumbo jumbo, the Giant had a few down-to-Earth touches. Not only forgetting
> >to tell Cooper something, but apologizing to Cooper for waking him up, and
> >observing that Cooper "*will* require medical attention".

I kept waiting for Cooper to say, "But I'm an FBI agent and a coffee drinker,
and I had no parental guidance."

> >} Well I kind of like this [supernatural] angle. There is something *very*
> >} wrong with Twin Peaks. Cooper is weird enough to deal with it, what about
> >} Albert?

I like to think that Albert brings a wholesome, refreshing breath of
whole-hearted obnoxiousness, untinged by messy sentimentality.  I
*like* having a simple, unambiguous, obnoxious jerk around.

> >Probably not most people. Hawk might be able to deal with it, as he seems
> >keep an open mind about the preternatural, it being part and parcel of his
> >ancestral beliefs. It'd be nice if they played Hawk up some. I really like
> >the character, and feel he's got too short a shrift.

Hawk is my favorite character, after Cooper.  When he said that his
girlfriend was named Shapiro, and a Ph.D. candidate at Brandeis, well,
it was almost too much for me.  I chuckle just thinking about it.
-- Doug Moran | He played the `Anvil Chorus' by blowing on pyramid!ctnews!sparky!dougm | knives and forks, and for a finish he blew up dougm@sparky.Convergent.com | a turkey until music came out of its ass.

mathews@cs.Buffalo.EDU (Ryan D Mathews) writes:


> >In article <1990Oct5.054202.2788@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, slg20427@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Locutus of Borg) writes:
>> >> 
>> >>  Did anyone notice that the second time Leland sings the song about
>> >> the "oats" that he changed one of the words.  When he was singing to Ben &
>> >> Jerry Horne, he says "...if the words sound queer, or MONEY to your ear..."

> >That *would* explain why Ben and Jerry get happy feet at that point and
> >start to boogie all over the place.

> >I didn't understand that before; Ben and Jerry had always seemed annoyed at
> >Leland's antics, not amused.

> >---------- Ryan Mathews

Cast your memory back to an early scene in the premiere last spring.  Leland
and Ben are talking about the Ghostwood Deal they are trying to complete with
the Norwegians.  Ben says (approximately), "I have information that the mill
will be going belly-up.  We can get the land for a song-- one verse, no
chorus."  I guess now we know what song he was referring to.
--
     -- Loren Rosen, the token irrationalist at ...
    Rational, 3320 Scott Blvd. Santa Clara Ca. 95054
            loren@rational.com  uunet!igor!loren

In article <484@kaos.MATH.UCLA.EDU> sherman@math.ucla.edu (William Sherman) writes:
> >
>> >>- No question about it.  The character I'd like to see most brought to TP has
>> >>to be Diane Shapiro, Ph.d. Brandeis.

> >I'm with you on this.  She must be a cool character for Hawk to say that
> >she's given him 'a singular joy'.  And what's her Ph.D. in, anyway?
> >



Probably Sanscrit.        




--
Barbara HlavinMoab is my wash-pot; over Edom
twain@blake.acs.washington.eduwill I cast out my shoe; Philistia,
U Washington JC-21/Seattle 98105be thou glad of me.

In article <1990Oct5.115617.1@acad3.fai.alaska.edu> fssrk1@acad3.fai.alaska.edu writes:
.dear dorks 
. you  guys seem to be overanalyzing  this completely
.and i think that for the most part the better half of you are stupid
.and that Twin Peaks is not different thaN days of our lives
.well the point im trying to make is  to shut  up cause none
.of you no nothing. i rule i know everything 
.     thank  you 
.     Sean  

hey BOB,

fresh meat.

~spass

--
spass otto stoiantschewsky"i shot agent cooper"
put this subject in your kill file

"I would like to place an international call.  Collect, to Hong Kong."

That is all that was said in the second call.  It obviously proves that
Josie is BOB, that she killed Laura, attacked Jacoby, and shot Cooper.
She's probably the giant, too.

-Pat
"I think now I understand how you feel about your husband's death."

Ben tells Jerry that if they don't pin the mill fire on the deceased
Catherine, he will give up sex ("THAT'S confidence").  I feel sorry for
Ben.

Josie has pictures of the affair between Ben and Catherine.  All she has
to do is produce these pictures at the right time, and Ben Horne will go
bye-bye.

Of course, she'll probably just blackmail him...

-Pat
"I think now I understand how you feel about your husband's death."

In article <ob38wjy00WBLI1z4E8@andrew.cmu.edu> dv0o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Doug vanderVeen) writes:
> >For those of you who get impatient with "red herrings" try thinking of
> >the mystery as a framework for social commentary.  Every scene is there
> >for a reason...

I wholeheartedly agree that TP viewers are missing an awful lot 
by fixating mainly on The Murder, or by categorizing
any information not illuminating that particular crime as "off the
trail". As PD James' crack detective Adam Dagliesh observed, a murder
investigation has this funny tendency to air *everybody's* dirty laundry; the
killer is never the only one caught in a lie, nor is she/he the only one
with things to hide. That's what makes mysteries so fun; by exposing
everybody's foibles and secrets, the lives of an entire community---not
just of those guilty of murder---are illuminated. In this sense TP is
classic (and stunningly successful) mystery. 


-- ================================================================= Delia Cioffi: -- University of Houston: cioffi@menudo.uh.edu -- Stanford University: cioffi@psych.stanford.edu

> >There are two items constantly being mentioned as "continuity glitches" or
> >"very meaningful".  One is the half-heart whose chain mysteriously from
> >leather thong to gold chain (and back)!  The other is the tape from Laura to
> >Jacoby which is certainly different when played by Donna, James, and Maddy
> >than it was when Jacoby played it.
> >
> >Has it occurred to anyone (or am I the last) that both of these "glitches" are
>from the very same cocoanut?  Coincidence?

Yes! Didn't you forget to remember what Cooper said in an earlier 
episode from the first season when he did the rock-bottle experiment? 
It sounded something like "..if 2 events occur close to each other, 
then it must really mean something important.." or something
to that effect. Does anyone remember the exact quote?

And it happened again!

> >I was reading this newsgroup at the same time I was watching the new TV
> >show Gabriel's Fire. As the show was drawing to a close and the "bad guy"
> >being caught, a character lept up, flashed his badge and said 
> >"Agent Cooper, FBI"


Louie

abbott@mobius.ACA.MCC.COM (Jeff Abbott) writes:

> > I think the OAM's poem holds a clue:
> > 
> > "Through the darkness of future past
> > the magician longs to see
> >  One chance ours between two worlds
> > Fire, walk with me."

Something just struck me on reading this -- the two worlds may just have been
brought closer, since Twin Peaks just suffered a major fire. And at least one
person has somehow survived walking through the fire: Shelley Johnson. Is
this significant?

Perhaps at the end of the series Lynch/Frost will destroy the whole town in a
Gotterdamerungliche fire...
--
Joe Zitt...cs.utexas.edu!kvue!zitt!joe (512)450-1916

Your theories are mighty interesting!!!   The Maddie-is-Laura theory
is well explained by your message....

I'm sure Leland is the killer too...


-- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Pascal Gosselin | Internet: Pascal@cam.org Applelink: CDA0585 | | Gest-Mac Inc. Apple VAR | Voice (514) 767-4444 Fax (514) 767-7337 | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

It seems obvious to me that the third man with whom Laura had sex that
night was James, before they went off on the bike ride from which Laura
ran away. This also means that the killer is not necessarily someone
for whom they have found evidence of sex with Laura. Have I missed 
something?
--
Joe Zitt...cs.utexas.edu!kvue!zitt!joe (512)450-1916

Thank you.. no, thank you.. Where do they keep HIS dish?

When cooper, hawk, harry, and the doc (was andy there?) talked to the log lady
remember that she said "the owls were watching" or something to that effect. 
The way she said it gave me the impression that the owls were dark and or
sinister creatures in the woods.  Could it be that owls or some of them are the
dark evil force in the woods?  Could it be that they can shapeshift when the
time is right, or just any old time for that matter.

I think its pretty safe to say that bob is bob, he's not an owl, and I doubt
that he is human.

--
brad wherry                |  Ex ignorantia ad sapientiam; 
wherry@alazif.enet.dec.com |     e luce ad tenebras.

In article <1990Oct4.235531.23474@cbnewsj.att.com>, mon@cbnewsj.att.com
(monica.t.wyckoff) writes:
|> Is it remotely possible that the "giant" is only called that
|> because from where Cooper is (flat on his back on the floor)
|> it appears that way?  Perhaps he is not really a giant at all, 
|> rather just a very large man.  This would lend feasibility to
|> the theory that he is *indeed* material and not supernatural.
|> -- 
|> Monica"Half my life's in those written pages.
|>  Living, learning from fools and from sages.
|>  You know it's true, all the things come back to you."
|> -Aerosmith
|> 

naw, I don't think so.  I can't recall the name of the actor who is playing 
the giant, but he was the butler/housekepper/campanion of Jack Nicholson's
character in the witches of eastwick.  AND HE WAS VERY VERY TALL THERE.  (Least
I am 
pretty sure he was.)  I also believe he was in an episode of STNG playing 
the butler/aide to counselor troy's mother.



--
brad wherry                |  Ex ignorantia ad sapientiam; 
wherry@alazif.enet.dec.com |     e luce ad tenebras.