Season 2, Episode 08: Drive with a Dead Girl — November 17–30, 1990

In article <1990Nov26.232731.5085@midway.uchicago.edu> swsh@ellis.uchicago.edu (Janet M. Swisher) writes:
> >In article <90330.063809ST00038@auvm.auvm.edu> ST00038@auvm.auvm.edu writes:
>> >>anyone see the show "broken badges" on saturday starring ferrer (sp?).
>> >>what an accent!!
>> >>
>> >>i figured since i couldn't have my peaks, i could try the new show.
>> >>would like any comments from others who saw it.
>> >>
>> >>very different character from albert.
> >
> >I watched about twenty minutes of it.
I admire your tenacity. I lasted five minutes. The only good thing I can say
is: It will probably get canceled, then Albert can come back to TP where he
belongs!!! YEAH!!!
> >

If Cooper gets his ring back on the 12/1 episode, then that must mean that
he (we) find out about the owls. ("The owls are not what they seem" and
"The things I tell you will not be wrong." and "I will return it (the ring)
to you when you find these things to be true.")

If Coop doesn't discover FOR A FACT that the owls are not what they seem next
week. Then TP is about to commit a major continuity error. Big time.

"Isn't this music dreamy?"

Just a brief reply to v101pyrw@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu's message of 24 Nov 90 
20:27:14 GMT

> > Laura goes to the Bookhouse.  Evidently, anyone can do so
> > then?  I had the impression that it was only for members of
> > the Bookhouse Boys.

I thought that the Bookhouse was just the name of a coffee house that was open
to the public.  This brings up an interesting point, though.  In the dream
sequence, Laura touched her nose with her right index finger.  When Harry
brings Cooper to meet the Bookhouse Boys it turns out that this same gesture is
the secret signal of the Bookhouse Boys.  Coincidence?????  Hmmmmmm...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Diane...I am now upside-down."

Matt BrinkmanInternet: BRINKMAN@EDSEQ1.LLNL.GOV

Okay, I'm not an expert on anything, but I have been studying screen-writing
and I suspect that there are two reasons that folks have been having an 
allergic reaction to episode 11/17.
first: It came after a better show. (Like that Sure commercial -- "Never follow
a better comic, and never let 'em see you sweat") The show was spent primarily
on character development. Filler, to those who were used to the breakneck pace
of the previous three shows. The Jerry scenes were awesome. Pete, Truman,
Ben, and of course Leland all showed new sides to their personalities. But
the Cooper/Audrey scene was underdeveloped.
second: The 11/17 episode was completely unique in one, aggravating way:
The audience became one-up on Cooper. We as the audience now know more than
Cooper does. It is infuriating to have to wait for Cooper to catch up to us.

Now, the rest of the series will be equally as aggravating if all Cooper
does is arrest Leland. In most cases where the audience knows the killer
before the detective does, the killer usually dies. This leads me to
believe that Leland will die this season, and only then will we know if
BOB jumps from host to host. Thank you for reading my blather.

"We're here for you Bobby"

In article <5904@kd4nc.UUCP> km4ba@kd4nc.UUCP (Allen Barrow) writes:
> >
> >Does anyone know if Julie Cruise's album has the songs she sang
> >at the bar the night Maddie was killed? She was pretty good.
> >
> >Alan Barrow
Two songs Julee Cruise sang at the Roadhouse just before the Giant
appeared are "Rockin' Back Inside my Heart" and "The World Spins".
Both are available on the Julee Cruise album "Floating Into the 
Night".  This is not the soundtrack album.  Another poster has mentioned
the lineup on the soundtrack album, and I noted that "The World Spins"
was *not* on that.  That was the song Cruise was singing right when the
Giant appeared.
Hope this helps.

From: cewallace@lion.uwaterloo.ca (Chris Wallace)

*By the way, on a Leland/BOB note, could someone who has the ORIGINAL 2-hour
*series pilot on tape answer a question for me?  Now I may be completely
*wrong about this, but I seem to recall that when Leland was told about
*Laura, all Harry (Hawk?) said was something like, "Leland, it's about Laura..."
*and immediately Leland breaks down, saying, "My daughter...she's dead!"
*
*It's just that I don't remember anyone telling him that she was dead!  I mean,
*she could have been arrested, or in a car accident, etc...  How did Leland
*know??  It's been a very long time since I saw the original...can
*anybody clarify this for me??

Well, I don't have *access* to my tape right now, but I watched it several
zillion times.  I think you're right that Leland jumped to the conclusion
that Laura was dead.  BUT, it was pretty damn obvious.  Harry walks up to
him really slowly, really grim-faced  (remember that Leland is listening
to Sarah frantically telling him that Laura is missing)  and says 
"Leland...[Harry looks like he's about to cry himself]...I've got some bad news.
It's about Laura."  or words to that effect.  It is totally obvious that
Harry is about to announce that Laura is dead.  Leland obviously doesn't
want to believe it.  In fact, for a long time, I refused to believe that
Leland was the murderer precisely because of this scene; because in this
scene, Leland was obviously Surprised and Shocked, and above all, Totally
Griefstricken that Laura was dead.

I still remember that as one of the saddest scenes I've ever seen on TV.
It was a totally believable depiction of the horror a parent must feel when
he/she finds out their child has died.  Everyone I know who watches TP was
in tears when they first saw that scene.  (I have this one friend who didn't
see TP last spring, so I forced her to watch the reruns this summer.  She
was all excited because she knew how much I liked it.  During the premiere,
I was in another room making cookies, and suddenly I hear my friend wail,
"Kathleen!!  This is AWFUL!!!"  I ran in and she was sitting there sobbing.
It was during this scene...p.s. she is an addict now...)

In retrospect, I think that was Leland-as-Leland that we saw.  I think that
Leland-as-Leland is griefstricken that Laura is dead, and feels vaguely
guilty, and feels vaguely responsible, but can't pin down why.  I think
we haven't seen Leland-as-Leland since his hair turned white, and definitely
not since Maddy died...:-<  

Jespah (Kathleen)

From: carey@m.cs.uiuc.edu (John Carey)

*The local PBS station played the movie "Laura" last week.  The scene
*where Laura returns to her apartment is eerily like Cooper's dwarf dream.
*The detective is even slumped in an armchair when she shows up.  He says,
*"aren't you Laura Hunt?" with the same bewilderment as Cooper.  And
*of course, Waldo Lydecker is the real culprit.  But then I guess you could
*come up with Waldo Lydecker by banging your head on the keyboard, couldn't
*you?
*
*This week they are showing "The Third Man" which was also supposedly 
*referred to in Twin Peaks.  (The Third Man at the crime scene)

Not only that, but ...
(if you haven't seen "The Third Man" hit "n" now      


In "The Third Man", also, the supposed victim turns up alive.  See, a guy
finds out his friend has been killed -- the friend was supposedly struck
by a streetcar, and two people helped carry the body off the street.  But
our hero finds an eyewitness who says, no, THREE people helped carry the
body off the street.  In the end it turns out that the friend -- that is,
the supposed victim -- was the third man, and that a totally different
person was struck by the streetcar and was buried under the supposed 
victim's name.

I think.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

It's a good movie!  

Jespah

It's been running pretty stable for a couple of days. Go to it.
For those of you who don't know, there's a MUSH based on Twin
Peaks running at corona.ecn.uoknor.edu 2270.

My, what a bare post...o well, low enthusiasm level tonight.

--
|| Bryant Durrell                           bryant@valkyrie.ecn.uoknor.edu ||
|| durrell@husc4.harvard.edu                           durrell@pharlap.com ||
|| Garrett // Cyberpixie // 'Muffin // Speaker-to-Eris // FEM // Ex-Wizard ||
||        "The next voice you hear could be that of William Blake."        ||

In article <1990Nov26.164034.1@si151a.llnl.gov>, Matt Brinkman ponders:

> >                                                            In the dream
> > sequence, Laura touched her nose with her right index finger.  When Harry
> > brings Cooper to meet the Bookhouse Boys it turns out that this same gesture
> > is the secret signal of the Bookhouse Boys.  Coincidence?????  Hmmmmmm...

I have only seen each episode once, but I seem to recall that the Bookhouse
Boys' sign is made by passing the tip of the index finger along the temple
from top to bottom; the side on which the sign is made (right or left) does
not matter.  If I remember correctly, during the scene where Harry reveals
the Bookhouse Boys to Cooper, this sign is made on both sides by different
members of the group, seemingly at random.

The meaning I attribute to this secret sign of the dream Laura's is a bit
different.

> > If Cooper gets his ring back on the 12/1 episode, then that must mean that
> > he (we) find out about the owls. ("The owls are not what they seem" and
> > "The things I tell you will not be wrong." and "I will return it (the ring)
> > to you when you find these things to be true.")

> > If Coop doesn't discover FOR A FACT that the owls are not what they seem next
> > week. Then TP is about to commit a major continuity error. Big time.

Not necessarily.  Remember that the giant was making predictions for Cooper,
in order (it would seem) that Cooper would believe him in the future.  His
second prediction was "The owls are not what they seem."  He was not actually
*saying* that the owls are not what they seem; he was predicting the message
that the Major passed on to Cooper, which said exactly that.

The only thing that remains to be proven in the 12/1 episode is "Without
chemicals, he points."  So far, Mike hasn't pointed too well.  When he does,
then Cooper will have found those things to be true.

Note that the events seem to be coming true in the order in which the giant
predicted them.

In article <1990Nov26.232731.5085@midway.uchicago.edu>, swsh@ellis.uchicago.edu (Janet M. Swisher) writes...

} I watched about twenty minutes of it.

I was tempted to do this myself, but I'm glad I hung on. It *did* pull
together in the second half pretty well. Not ground-breaking television
by any means, but watchable if you're in the right mood.

-- "I can't die yet. I haven't seen THE JOLSON STORY." --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA) UUCP: ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian ARPA: boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM

What is a MUSH?  Please explain.

Jespah

In article <11740@milton.u.washington.edu>, jespah@milton.u.washington.edu (Kathleen Hunt) writes...
> >What is a MUSH?  Please explain.
> > 
> >Jespah

A MUSH is basically a TinyMUD with a lot of modifications.  Several things that
a MUSH adds:
(1) You can @force items you own to do things.
(2) Much more liberal @teleport laws.
(3) New fields (@[o]drop, @[o]kill, @listen, @a[a/m]hear, et al.) for objects 
    and anything else that can use them.
(4) V-functions. these are a way of storing information and making user-defined
    commands for various rooms, objects, etc.
(5) Puppets (items that can relay information to you)
(6) You can enter objects and people
(7) Many other things that I can't think of or don't want to explain right now.

Hope this helps somewhat.

**-**=**-**+**-**=**-**+**-**=**-**+**-**=**-**+**-**=**-**+**-**=**-**+**-**+*
+  "If Murphy's law can go wrong, it will go wrong."  ~~|~~  David Green      *
**-**=**-**+**-**=**-**+**-**=**-**+**-**=**-**+**-**=**-**+**-**=**-**+**-**+-
*  Internet:   dgreen@hmcvax.claremont.edu |  "Call me Mishael..." (with all  *
=  Bitnet:     dgreen@hmcvax.bitnet        |  due respect to H. Melville...)  *
**-**=**-**+**-**=**-**+**-**=**-**+**-**=**-**+**-**=**-**+**-**=**-**+**-**=*

/ hpopd:alt.tv.twin-peaks / cewallace@lion.uwaterloo.ca (Chris Wallace) / 11:03 pm  Nov 26, 1990 /

By the way, on a Leland/BOB note, could someone who has the ORIGINAL 2-hour
series pilot on tape answer a question for me?  Now I may be completely
wrong about this, but I seem to recall that when Leland was told about
Laura, all Harry (Hawk?) said was something like, "Leland, it's about Laura..."
and immediately Leland breaks down, saying, "My daughter...she's dead!"

It's just that I don't remember anyone telling him that she was dead!  I mean,
she could have been arrested, or in a car accident, etc...  How did Leland
know??  It's been a very long time since I saw the original...can
anybody clarify this for me??

----------

I don't agree that it was obvious from the pilot that Leland killed Laura (this
theory was espoused recently on rec.arts.tv). Watching the pilot again, I think
any father in Leland's position would have inferred that Laura was dead.

Remember that he had just received a phone call from Sarah, in which she was
extremely concerned about Laura's whereabouts.

Richard.

/ hpopd:alt.tv.twin-peaks / jespah@milton.u.washington.edu (Kathleen Hunt) /  2:56 am  Nov 27, 1990 /

I still remember that as one of the saddest scenes I've ever seen on TV.
It was a totally believable depiction of the horror a parent must feel when
he/she finds out their child has died.  Everyone I know who watches TP was
in tears when they first saw that scene.  (I have this one friend who didn't
see TP last spring, so I forced her to watch the reruns this summer.  She
was all excited because she knew how much I liked it.  During the premiere,
I was in another room making cookies, and suddenly I hear my friend wail,
"Kathleen!!  This is AWFUL!!!"  I ran in and she was sitting there sobbing.
It was during this scene...p.s. she is an addict now...)

----------

Well said. I always felt that Leland and Sarah's reactions to Lauara's death
were totally believable and true to real life.

However, several people who I've spoken to who disliked Twin Peaks cited the
"over-played" emotions as the principal reason for disliking the show.

In article <1990Nov26.112155.1@si151a.llnl.gov> brinkman@si151a.llnl.gov writes:
> >I have read before that the Twin Peaks sound track lists the name Bob (no last
> >name) under special thanks.  I thought this was interesting so I checked out
> >the liner notes from the cassette version and found the name Bob Iger (the ABC
> >programming dude) listed amoung many others but no other Bob's.  I have
> >forgotten who first posted this observation, but could someone please tell me 
> >what version (i.e. CD or albumn) of the soundtrack gives special thanks to Bob?

I recall that the Julie Cruise album had the special thanks to "Bob", not
the TP soundtrack.

-- Eric Cotton Commodore-Amiga (215) 431-9100 1200 Wilson Drive {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!eric West Chester, PA 19380 "I don't find this stuff amusing anymore."

In article <1158600129@cdp> ddulmage@cdp.UUCP writes:
> >Hello, by request, here is a current list of TP sounds that I have
> >sampled to date

Posting them would be nice.  Making them available 
via anonymous ftp would be nicer.  Presenting them
to the crew at the info-mac archives (sumex-aim.stanford.edu,
36.44.0.6) for inclusion would be darn nifty.
-- - Barry L. "It is happening again" Gingrich bgingric@nyx.cs.du.edu

Last night 11/26/90 while I was watching Monday Night Football, I swear that
Al Micheals mentioned Missoula Montana.  Is this just a coincident, or has
BOB inhabited Al Micheals?

                                Alexander Breen
                                University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
                                                       (Where else?)
                                abreen@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
                                IOWA SUCKS!!

In <9814@jarthur.Claremont.EDU> dgreen@cbrown.claremont.edu (Green, David) writes:

> >A MUSH is basically a TinyMUD with a lot of modifications.  Several things that
> >a MUSH adds:
> >(1) You can @force items you own to do things.
> >(2) Much more liberal @teleport laws.

> >[more MUD terms deleted]
> >(7) Many other things that I can't think of or don't want to explain right now.

> >Hope this helps somewhat.

A lot for rec.games.mud, but probably not for the a.tv.t-p'ers out there.
(No offense intended, but the crosspost made this pop up in r.g.mud.)

As best as I can tell from perusing r.g.mud, MUSH and Mud are interactive
games played over the Internet.  When someone says they have a MUD running
at "foo.bar.org 2217", they're giving the address to tell a tinyMUD program
to hook up to.

I think TinyMUD is a small network server that can be obtained via anonymous
ftp;  if you're running on a compatible (probably SysV or BSD) Unix site, 
you just compile it, run it with those parameters, and play.

Somebody on the host (for our example, foo.bar.org) wrote a MUD server (in
MUD language?) that basically creates an "environment" for you... for this 
TP mud, I suspect it's just Twin Peaks itself ... and then lets you run 
amok, doing whatever you do to the characters and places you see.  (I wonder
if you're allowed to cavort with Audrey in One-Eyed Jacks... of course not;
she's not there anymore. :-) )

This probably doesn't help much, but it may be a start.  I'm not much for
Internet games myself.  Here at the University of No Learning, a couple of
students were put under the heavy hand of the U. for doing exactly this
last year.  Unfortunately, at the time there was no explicit rule banning
game-playing, so they quickly drafted one and prosecuted the students 
under it.  I believe they were expelled from their majors but allowed to
stay here.
--
        ... Michael Ho, University of Nebraska
Internet: ho@hoss.unl.edu | "Mine... is the last voice that you will ever hear."

In article <KGFT9P6@cs.swarthmore.edu> pouncy@campus.swarthmore.edu writes:
> >
> >4) What's now left for the 'Ben-did-it' people?
> >a) The OAM has pointed at him and during his jail visit he stated
> >that BOB was very close but not here NOW.
 
Slightly suggestive, but could point to any of Ben's cohorts.
 
> >b) Would Leland have hung out with low-life like Jacques and Leo 
> >on the night of Laura's murder? More Ben's types surely?
 
Surely not. Ben is extremely fastidious as his beautifully tailored clothes
and elegant surroundings show. Also, Ben considers himself a leader
of the community and has a great deal of pride. Ben is willing to employ
Leo as a tool for his purposes but I doubt if he would even sit in the
same room with Jacques. My impression is that he wouldn't socialize with either.
 
> >c) Why indeed has Leland become more careless after forty years of
> >meticulously planned acts of evil? Doesn't BOB want to get Leland caught
> >as others have suggested? 
 
This is a very good point.  This could definitely be seen as evidence
that Bob has another and better host and views Leland as expendable.

> >d) Is BOB\Leland a one man crime wave in Twin Peaks responsible for almost
> >every act of violence except the brutal assassination of Waldo? 
> >Did he kill Theresa Banks, stab Laura, bludgeon Maddie, assault Ronette, 
> >shoot agent Cooper, smother Jacques, attack Jacoby, stain Ronette's IV bag, 
> >drive a two-armed man to self-mutilation, drug Sarah Palmer, 
> >and hang poor Harold Smith?
> >
Sure, why not?
Although personally I can't see why he would kill Harold and I think
that Cooper's x partner shot him as a joke.
And I think the One-Armed Man was driven by his own personal demons.

ann hodgins

In article <5904@kd4nc.UUCP> km4ba@kd4nc.UUCP (Allen Barrow) writes:
> >
> >Does anyone know if Julie Cruise's album has the songs she sang
> >at the bar the night Maddie was killed? She was pretty good.
> >
> >Alan Barrow

Yes, it does.  It is a pretty good album overall.
-- =============================================================================== Jim Graffam | "Fortune...it favors the bold, Titan Applications | small children, and ships named Enterprise" c/o Raytheon-Sudbury | Riker _The Contagion_ ===============================================================================

In article <90330.115033PJP114@psuvm.psu.edu> PJP114@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
> >REGARDING THE QUESTION--WAS BOB IN LELAND AT THE TIME OF LAURA'S MURDER--THE AN
<stuff deleted>

Please stop shouting.  Thanks.

-- =============================================================================== Jim Graffam | "Fortune...it favors the bold, Titan Applications | small children, and ships named Enterprise" c/o Raytheon-Sudbury | Riker _The Contagion_ ===============================================================================

From article <1990Nov27.155130.965@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, by abreen@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Alex Breen):

> Last night 11/26/90 while I was watching Monday Night Football, I swear that
> Al Micheals mentioned Missoula Montana. Is this just a coincident, or has
> BOB inhabited Al Micheals?

This caught my attention, too. They were welcoming a new affiliate in
Missoula, Montana. Channel 23 or something like that.

"Don't drive too slowly." Richard Caldwell
AT&T Network Systems
att!cbnews!nrc
nrc@cbnews.att.com

In article <11733@milton.u.washington.edu>, jespah@milton.u.washington.edu (Kathleen Hunt) writes...
> >From: cewallace@lion.uwaterloo.ca (Chris Wallace)

> >*By the way, on a Leland/BOB note, could someone who has the ORIGINAL 2-hour
> >*series pilot on tape answer a question for me?  Now I may be completely
> >*wrong about this, but I seem to recall that when Leland was told about
> >*Laura, all Harry (Hawk?) said was something like, "Leland, it's about Laura..."
> >*and immediately Leland breaks down, saying, "My daughter...she's dead!"

> >*It's just that I don't remember anyone telling him that she was dead!  I mean,
> >*she could have been arrested, or in a car accident, etc...  How did Leland
> >*know??  It's been a very long time since I saw the original...can
> >*anybody clarify this for me??

I just happened to watch the series pilot this weekend.  Leland is not told that
Laura was killed.  He says that all on his own.  As this poster says, however, 
it was pretty obvious that something awful had happened to Laura.  Would a 
parent immediately jump to the conclusion that their child was dead, though?  

Anyways what happens is this:  Leland is on the phone with Sarah, trying to
reassure her about Laura.  He sees Harry pull into the Great Northern.  Harry
walks in asking where Leland is.  Harry does *not* tell Leland that Laura is 
dead.  Leland starts breaking down.  Ben walks in and Leland says, "My daughter
is dead."  

> >In retrospect, I think that was Leland-as-Leland that we saw.  I think that
> >Leland-as-Leland is griefstricken that Laura is dead, and feels vaguely
> >guilty, and feels vaguely responsible, but can't pin down why.  I think
> >we haven't seen Leland-as-Leland since his hair turned white, and definitely
> >not since Maddy died...:-<

Perhaps, Leland's subsequent breakdown was an increasing realization that he 
was responsible for Laura's death.  

--Michelle
[B
[B

If you haven't seen the movie "Laura" please ignore what I said about
who did it.

I should be more sensitive to giving away endings.  Sorry to anyone
who read that.

I think someone else might have given away the ending when it was
discussed here before, and I think it might have made it easier for me
to figure it out.  
--
John Carey
University of Illinois
Dept. of Computer Science
carey@a.cs.uiuc.edu
{uu-net,pur-ee,convex,...}!uiucdcs!carey

   On the late night news broadcast from one of our local stations (Seattle)
   Sunday night, Governor Booth Gardner (Washington state Gov.) was
   giving a few comments about the recent flooding in Western WA and
   he was wearing a Twin Peaks sweatshirt. ;-)

   Just an interesting tidbit...

-E-

-- Eric J. Arendts "The brain is a wonderful organ; it starts the Applied Microsystems Corp. moment you get up in the morning, and does Redmond, Washington 98073 not stop until you get to the office." R. Frost

Coop's ex-partner is a master of disguise.  In my opinion, Leland is the second
best character on the show-Coop is the best.  If Lynch wanted to keep Leland on
the show, all he would have to do is reveal that Leland is actually Coop's ex-
partner in disguise and that he, not Leland killed Maddie and Jacques. The real
Leland might even be in a looney bin.  Certainly, he must at least be a captive
of Coop's ex-partner since he is not around. If Coop's ex-partner is older thant
Leland, it  might even explain Leland's newly acquired taste in music from the
40's.

This post is another product of the only man on the net, to my knowledge, who
predicted the death of Harold Smith.--ENJOY

In article <carey.659659965@m.cs.uiuc.edu> carey@m.cs.uiuc.edu (John Carey) writes:

   If you ask me the whole "stopping Leland/BOB swerving all over the
   road" is an inside joke about Nissan's BOB commercial.

Actually, I thought it was a reference to ``Wages of Fear'', which has
a scene of Yves Montand near the end happily driving along in a truck
weaving all over the highway as if dancing.  One other possible movie
reference was the scene of Leland laughing and being misinterpreted by
Cooper as crying.  There is a scene in a Charlie Chaplin silent short
about a drunk, in which the drunk finds a letter from his wife saying
that she's leaving.  We first see him from the back with his shoulders
heaving and we don't know if he's laughing or crying.  (Actually, he's
shaking a cocktail!)

-30-
Bob

In article <3001@dali> icsu8297@ming.cs.montana.edu (Wilbanks) writes:

   The 11/17 episode was completely unique in one, aggravating way:
   The audience became one-up on Cooper. We as the audience now know more than
   Cooper does. It is infuriating to have to wait for Cooper to catch up to us.

This is not the first time we have had more information than Cooper
does; we either now know or originally knew before Cooper:

(1) Who persuaded Shelley not to testify against Leo; Cooper explained
to Harry that this was an insurance scam but did not know who the
mastermind was

(2) Who put the cocaine in James' gas tank and who the distributors of
cocaine in Twin Peaks are  (Remember that Jacques tells Cooper that Leo is
using some high school kid(s))

(3) That Hank shot Leo

(4) That Josie was involved with Ben and Hank

(5) That Catherine is alive

(6) That Ben ordered the Mill burned

----------------------------------------------------------------------

(7) That Leland killed Jacques Renault

(8) That Jacoby was involved

(9) That Ben Horne owned One-Eyed Jack's

(He obviously now knows (7)--(9) but we knew them before he did)

-30-
Bob

The white horse has got to be an obvious 'clue'; we've seen it at least
2 times.  Correct me if I am wrong (and I'm sure you will), but in the
Book of Revelations there are different colored horses symbolizing different
things (red, blue, grey, etc).  The white horse symbolized evil.  I also 
remember much talk of fire.

C'mon, there's gotta be someone out there that can help us out with the
details...

Jim Hickey

+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| no cute saying cause I think they're silly and nobody reads them anyway |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

In article <47760@eerie.acsu.Buffalo.EDU> v101pyrw@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu writes:
> >In article <11733@milton.u.washington.edu>, jespah@milton.u.washington.edu (Kathleen Hunt) writes...
>> >>From: cewallace@lion.uwaterloo.ca (Chris Wallace)
> >
>> >>*By the way, on a Leland/BOB note, could someone who has the ORIGINAL 2-hour
>> >>*series pilot on tape answer a question for me?  Now I may be completely
>> >>*wrong about this, but I seem to recall that when Leland was told about
>> >>*Laura, all Harry (Hawk?) said was something like, "Leland, it's about Laura..."
>> >>*and immediately Leland breaks down, saying, "My daughter...she's dead!"
> >
>> >>*It's just that I don't remember anyone telling him that she was dead!  I mean,

[stuff deleted]

> >it was pretty obvious that something awful had happened to Laura.  Would a 
> >parent immediately jump to the conclusion that their child was dead, though?  
> >

Sometimes when people are about to receive the news that a loved
one has died, they just *KNOW* what the news is.  For example,
the brother of a friend of mine was killed in a car accident a
few years ago.  When the phone rang, he *KNEW* it was bad news --
similarly, there have been many, many dramatic depictions of
delivery of death news, and often the family can tell even before
anything is said.  I might add, however, IMHO, this scene from 
the TP pilto was classic in its depiction of horror, shock, 
and grief. 


Carrie "please don't make me leave" Bullington

One *big* problem with Broken Badges, though, is its time slot.  I believe
it will be on Saturday nights, which means that will be opposite either
Twin Peaks or China Beach (I don't know what time it's scheduled for, but I
can't imagine it being shown at 8pm).  While I thought BB was interesting,
my VCR will almost always be taping the other two.  On the rare occasion
that I'm home on a Saturday night I might watch one and tape the other.

--
Barry Margolin, Thinking Machines Corp.

barmar@think.com
{uunet,harvard}!think!barmar

Whoops--I didn't even realize that that posting was coming over here...
A TinyMUD is something like this:
It's somewhat of a text-based role-playing game.  There are several types of
MUDs beyond just TinyMUDs...depending on who you ask, MUD stands for Multi-User
Dungeon, or Multi-User Dimension, or other creative ways people have filled in
the acronym.  TinyMUDs focus mainly on a kind of character socialization; other
MUDs tend to be more combat-oriented.  
In a TinyMUD, one can make and describe rooms and objects, and can find ways to
link these together to make puzzles, of sorts.  There are commands for speech,
and actions, (the socialization aspect of it)...and they can be highly
addicting, if you like that kind of stuff. 
..I hope this clears that matter up at least somewhat...

**-**=**-**+**-**=**-**+**-**=**-**+**-**=**-**+**-**=**-**+**-**=**-**+**-**+*
+  "If Murphy's law can go wrong, it will go wrong."  ~~|~~  David Green      *
**-**=**-**+**-**=**-**+**-**=**-**+**-**=**-**+**-**=**-**+**-**=**-**+**-**+-
*  Internet:   dgreen@hmcvax.claremont.edu |     <Watch here for a quote>     *
=  Bitnet:     dgreen@hmcvax.bitnet        | <Coming soon to a sig. near you> *
**-**=**-**+**-**=**-**+**-**=**-**+**-**=**-**+**-**=**-**+**-**=**-**+**-**=*

    During the current lull in TP activity it might be a good time
to ask a couple of non-plot related questions. First (and foremost),
what is TP about? Is it about owls, spirits, aliens, the murder
of a young girl, a spiritual miasma. (Remember Jimmy Carter's
"malaise"? -- how sweet that a pro-Raygun artist would pick up on
that...)

  A couple of patterns seem to be emerging. First, along with the
recurring plot device of missed communications, there's the general
out-of-control leap-frogging of everyone's plans and schemes. The
plot resembles an intricate game of Go or Othello. You can fill
in your favorite plot-line here.

  And second, so few of the principals in this increasingly spirit
bound show, seem to have any character or make any moral decisions.
Spirits, yes. Spirituality, no. Curiouser.

  Moral decisions seem limited to the minor league plot lines. Shelley
chooses to go along with Bobby; Andy tries to put aside his
jealousy; Lucy rejects Dick (and the possible abortion?); Big Ed
sticks by increasingly palooka-prone Nadine. Cooper, the central
character, is a moral vacuum. He acts for Good, allegedly, but
mostly he just seems metronomic. When he turns aside Audrey's sexual
advances, it seems like behaviour quoted out of a book. (Castiglione?
Dick Tracy? The FBI equivalent of "The Junior Woodchuck's Guide and
What to Do Until the Doctor Comes"?) Even Audrey's rescue is Duty.
Maybe that is simply MacLachlan's (spelling?) limitation as an
actor; but Truman doesn't have much moral coloring to him either, and
Ontkean's acting is up to snuff.
  It's odd, given that we're supposed to be awed or frightened by the
spirits, that no-one's given us a little 30 second catechism of what
they're about. Are they from Indian beliefs, Tibetan, Christian, Jungian,
Movie-land, or TV-land? (Movie-land is subtly different turf than TV-land.)
  We need to know why the whole world isn't run by BOB and his elk...
er, ilk. Is BOB some animistic tree genii who's playing hookey?
When Mike says he saw God, how did he know? Whose GOD? (There
have been no churches in TP....have there even been any crucifixes?
any totems? any God's Eyes? ) Is God...well, the grey bearded, white,
Adam fingering, cloud swimmer? Or what? Lynch, methinks, has held
off for commercial, lets-not-offend-anyone reasons. Maybe he
hopes that the series will be cancelled before its called to
account. TP as pre-packaged cult classic, the Miata of the tube.
   A way out of the spirits-as-hook'em-hokum problem may be to
link the leap-frogging, Go-game plot elements with BOB: infernal
Go master...owlish Manichean...that sort of thing. All roads lead
to BOB...and he takes the toll!!! (Read the last sentence with
your favorite E. Power Biggs organ thunder pounding in the back
ground...No more of this pastel, spirit-lite Julee Cruise stuff.)
It doesn't account for the main characters' moral neuter-ness, but
it might put a little zing into the spiritsomething ambience.

<BTW -- this is evidence that I have proved unable to break my addiction
        to TP and alt.tv.twin-peaks. Woe...woe...whoa!!!>
-- Jeff Davis davis@keats.ca.uky.edu Lots Available

In article <N1JTVQH@cs.swarthmore.edu> pouncy@campus.swarthmore.edu writes:
> >Just when it looks as if BOB has to 
> >be Leland, we wonder whether Lynch/Frost have something much more
> >interesting in store - BOB as a more ambiguous creature, more 
> >skillfully connected to other evils in the town.

After reviewing Maddy's death scene and others, I get the impression
that BOB is not the killer we think he is.  Particularly, I noticed
that it was always Leland who actually inflicted pain on Maddy, while
it was always BOB who did pleasurable things like kiss her.

Remember the old Star Trek episode where the transporter malfunctions
and Captain Kirk is split into *twins*, one good and one evil?  Kirk
the complete man could keep things under control, but not when he is
split up.  I think Leland's story is similar, except that the split is
along the lines of pleasure/pain rather than good/evil (and Leland
does not split into two physical bodies, obviously).  Much of the time
Leland is a complete man and behaves relatively normally, but watch
out when he splits into Leland/BOB!

I think BOB is a wild but basically fun kind of guy.  It's too bad
that the nasty side of Leland is always nearby, ready to turn BOB's
fun into tragedy.

Pre-emptive strikes:

(1) In Cooper's dream with the dwarf, BOB says he will kill again, but
    that's just because it is the nature of that dream that characters
    appear as their "other" selves (e.g., the one-armed man is Mike, not
    Phillip).  BOB is just Cooper's dream representation of Leland.

(2) We don't know what BOB was pounding on in Ronnette's vision of the
    train car, and we don't know whether BOB's final scream in that
    scene was one of anguish or triumph.

(3) During Maddy's death scene, Leland changed into BOB in the middle
    of a punch to Maddy's abdomen.  I do not consider that an act of
    violence on BOB's part, since BOB did not initiate it.

                           :: Jeff Makey

Department of Tautological Pleonasms and Superfluous Redundancies Department
    Disclaimer: Logicon doesn't even know we're running news.
    Domain: Makey@Logicon.COM    UUCP: {ucsd,nosc}!snoopy!Makey

In article <90330.115033PJP114@psuvm.psu.edu> PJP114@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
> >REGARDING THE QUESTION--WAS BOB IN LELAND AT THE TIME OF LAURA'S MURDER--THE AN
> >SWER IS YES.  THERE ARE MANY REASONS.  LELAND WAS THE ONLY PERSON WHO TOLD COO
> >
> > [many more lines in all caps]...
> >
> >CAN ANYONONE HELP ME?

I'll try.  Hit that little key labeled "Caps Lock" or "Alpha Lock" on your 
keyboard before posting next time.  Or try using that key labeled "Shift"
once in a while.  %)

-- Larry Spence larry@csccat.cs.com ...{uunet,texsun,cs.utexas.edu,decwrl}!csccat!larry

jespah@milton.u.washington.edu (Kathleen Hunt) writes:

> >What is a MUSH?  Please explain.
> >
> >Jespah

It's like those text-only games -- Adventure, Zork, etc. -- except
that other players are there at the same time and you can interact with
them.  You can also build your own rooms and objects after you've
figured it out.  On PeaksMUSH you pretend you're someone from Twin
Peaks and wander around the town.  To get there type:
telnet corona.ecn.uoknor.edu 2270
For more information read rec.games.mud or ftp from belch.berkeley.
See you in Twin Peaks!

--  maggie

-- --scott douglass Any opinions above may be mine and are not necessarily those of Apple Computer. domain: scott@apple.com UUCP: {nsc, sun, voder, well, dual}!apple!scott CSNet: scott@Apple.CSNet AppleLink: Douglass1

In <4238@amc-gw.amc.com> erica@amc-gw.amc.com (Eric Arendts) writes:

> >   he was wearing a Twin Peaks sweatshirt. ;-)

Where does a person get such an item?  Are they scarce?
--
        ... Michael Ho, University of Nebraska
Internet: ho@hoss.unl.edu | "Mine... is the last voice that you will ever hear."

The Twin Peaks hypercard stack, which contains over 50
sampled sounds from the first season, has been posted
on freebie.engin.umich.edu (141.212.68.23), in the directory
/pub/twin-peaks.  It's been compacted, binhexed, and split
into four parts (the Compactor archive is self-extracting),
each of which will fit onto a double-sided disk.

Note that this is the same ftp site where TP gifs and sounds
are being collected (at least until disk space becomes a
problem -- then it's out of my hands).

 > Jeff Davis  davis@keats.ca.uky.edu

 > When Mike says he saw God, how did he know? Whose GOD? (There
 > have been no churches in TP....have there even been any crucifixes?

At least one: in the first-season episode of Laura's funeral, in
the Briggs household as the family Briggs was getting ready to go.
Bobby stands in front of a crucifix (in the hallway?), his back to
the camera, and slowly stretches his arms into a crucified pose. I 
found this brief scene powerfully affecting, but completely ambiguous.
There was some discussion here about whether Bobby was grief-stricken 
or bitterly cynical (as usual). I don't remember a concensus.

-->Keith
--

well, what i figure is that donna and james are going to tell
the police that when they went over the morning after(maddy was
killed), lehland told them that he had just droped her off at
the bus station. but when the police find that she was killed the
night before they will figure out that lehland was lying and that
she was in fact killed by him the night before.

Jenny

icsu8297@ming.cs.montana.edu (Wilbanks) writes:

> > If Cooper gets his ring back on the 12/1 episode, then that must mean that
> > he (we) find out about the owls. ("The owls are not what they seem" and
> > "The things I tell you will not be wrong." and "I will return it (the ring)
> > to you when you find these things to be true.")
> > 

You are, of course, assuming that "a circle made of gold" as MIKE said in 
the preview refers to Cooper's ring. I don't buy it. I think it's the 
records Leland keeps playing. They were pretty popular in their day. 
Might have gone gold, no?


**************************************************************************
"Mr. BOB, you've killed Theresa Banks,   *                Richard Barrett
 Laura Palmer, Jacques Renault, and      *             18004 146th Ave NE
 Maddy Ferguson. What are you going to   *          Woodinville, WA 98072
 do next?"                               *                (206)487-1312
"I'm going to Disneyland!"               *hikaru%halcyon.uucp@seattleu.edu
**************************************************************************

ridgway@evax0.eng.fsu.edu (DARIN RIDGWAY) writes:

> > In article <1990Nov27.063621.4577@watdragon.waterloo.edu>, cewallace@lion.uwa
>> > >In article <1990Nov21.010241.8504@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> ridgway@evax0.eng.fsu.e
>>> > >>The following are my nominees for the top 10 visual moments/sequences thus
>>> > >>far in the Twin Peaks chronicles.  This is, of course, fairly idiotic, but
>>> > >>what the hey. [no particular order - asteriks indicate especially memorable
>>> > >>ones].
>> > > 
>>> > >>  (10 memorable visual moments deleted)
>> > > 
>> > >How could you possible leave out the most (I can't even think of an
>> > >appropriate adjective!)  scene in all of TP??  Namely, the scene
>> > >in Ronette's dream of Laura's actual murder??
>> > > 
>> > >Just thinking about this scene (effectively placed, as it was, at the
>> > >end of this season's movie) makes me want to see BOB strung up by
>> > >his tendons (spiritual or not!)
> > 
> > {revised list deleted}

Let's not forget the gradual focus on the evilly grinning BOB in Cooper's 
dream, BOB crawling (oozing? :>) over a couch to Maddy, and the final 
scene of last season's finale, seeing only Cooper's chest, nothing else, 
and watching it get riddled with bullets. (okay, I have a ve`/L7ery 
morbid mind >) 

**************************************************************************
"Mr. BOB, you've killed Theresa Banks,   *                Richard Barrett
 Laura Palmer, Jacques Renault, and      *             18004 146th Ave NE
 Maddy Ferguson. What are you going to   *          Woodinville, WA 98072
 do next?"                               *                (206)487-1312
"I'm going to Disneyland!"               *hikaru%halcyon.uucp@seattleu.edu
**************************************************************************

/ hpsmpk:alt.tv.twin-peaks / tak@doe.utoronto.ca (Tak Ariga) / 12:07 am  Nov 26, 1990 /

> > Waldo the Mynah is on tape saying "Leland no! Leland no!".  Who would
> > have said that?  Laura?  Ronnette?  It does sounds like a female voice.
> > Does that mean Leland was at Jacques' cabin?  Maybe Leland was the "third 
> > man" who takes Laura and Ronnette to the train car, and Laura/Ronnette is 
> > saying "Leland, no!  (Don't take me away to the train car.)"  That sounds
> > plausible.  But would Laura call her own father "Leland", instead of "Daddy"?
> > What about Ronnette; wouldn't she have said "No, Mr. Palmer" ? :-)
> > [A female person most likely to say "Leland" IMHO is Sarah, but she wasn't at
> > Jacques' cabin, right? :-)  Imagine the theories trying to make that fit!]

I believe Waldo said "Laura no! Laura no!", not "Leland no! Leland no!".

Mark Collier

In article <17571@shlump.nac.dec.com> boyajian@ruby.dec.com (Cisco's Buddy) writes:
> >In article <57138@brunix.UUCP>, cs123078@cs.brown.edu (Mark Hessman) writes...
> >
> >} One of the people I watch the show with was sure that what the magician-
> >} boy said was "J'ai un ami sous le terre" -- 'I have a friend under the
> >} earth.' Much more ominous than that bit about the 'solitary soul.'
> >
> >They should clean the wax out of their ears. It's been confirmed here by
> >someone with a closed-caption decoder that he said "I am/have a solitary
> >soul."

Hmm...please correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure someone will) but my
understanding of the closed-captioning system is that people sit,
listen to the program, and type in what they hear.  I remember hearing
someone who does this kind of work talking about how fast you have to type,
since you have to keep up.

So I think it's probably a mistake to assume that the closed captioning
is necessarily right.  On the other hand, maybe the people who do the
captioning do it a little ahead of time and so can listen to difficult
phrases a few times or even ask to see a script.  Anybody know?

Becky Thomas
bthomas@cs.stanford.edu

-- 
-- Becky Thomas bthomas@cs.stanford.edu

In article <16439@s.ms.uky.edu> fehr@ms.uky.edu (Jeffrey Davis) writes:
> >
> >Whose GOD? (There have been no churches in TP

Although not specifically linked to PMG/MIKE, there are references to God
and religion in TP.  The Christian God is referred to.  Witness Doc 
Heyward mentioning to Donna about going to church the next day in 1001.  
In 1002 they actually go to church (we don't see them going, but they 
do talk about it, while lunching at the RR diner).  Audrey also went to 
church that day.

Laura's funeral looked pretty Christian, as well as the minister with
the clerical collar, and mentioning teaching Laura in Sunday School.

> > ....have there even been any crucifixes?

Someone already mentioned the Briggs' family home.

> >any totems? 

The Great Northern Hotel has a lot of Coastal Indian art, if not totems.

-- Tak Ariga, Dictionary of Old English Project, University of Toronto, Canada tak@doe.utoronto.ca tak@doe.toronto.edu utdoe!tak +1 416 978 8883

In article <f1@vahmifqy> blojo@ocf.berkeley.edu writes:
> >The only thing that remains to be proven in the 12/1 episode is "Without
> >chemicals, he points."  So far, Mike hasn't pointed too well.  When he does,
> >then Cooper will have found those things to be true.

I still say we saw MIKE fulfill this one when he pointed at the poster
of BOB -- this was after Gerard was unable to inject himself and prevent
MIKE's appearance.  But, we'll see.

-- PISTOL LICENSES X\X\X Tom Neff Like to shoot? Why commute? \X\X\ tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM -- West Side Rifle & Pistol Range, NYC X\X\X uunet!bfmny0!tneff

I can't comment on US closed-captions, but UK subtitles for Twin Peaks have
been exceptionally accurate. Very few (non-Germans) in the UK would know what a
"Wienie" (sp?) is, but the people who wrote the subtitles got it right.

Having said that, they did transcribe "Low Town" as "Lotown". So I assume that
they repeatedly listen to the soundtrack until they're confident that they've
understood what was said.

Richard.

In article <17472@shlump.nac.dec.com>, boyajian@ruby.dec.com (Cisco's Buddy)
says:
> >
> >Deschanel isn't a "dyed-in-the-wool MTV alumnus". He's a cinematographer
> >of high reputation (he's gotten Academy Award nominations for Best
> >Cinematography for THE RIGHT STUFF and THE NATURAL) and he directed one
> >of my favorite non-Lynch episodes -- Episode #6, where Coop and the Boys
> >trek up to the Log Lady's cabin and then on to Jacques' cabin.
> >

No he didn't - I just watched this episode last night in the UK, and it was
directed by Leslie Linka Glatter

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Moss Madden
"TO ME, ALL RELIGION IS      JANET:         JU39@UK.AC.LIVERPOOL
JUST A BUZZING IN THE EARS" INTERNET ETC:  JU39@LIVERPOOL.AC.UK
A J P TAYLOR (1990)         UUCP:  ...!MCVAX!UKC!LIVERPOOL.AC.UK!JU39

My profoundest apologies if the observations beneath were noted and discussed
ages ago in the US, but as you know in the UK we are only now on episode 6. If
there is an explanation, please post or e-mail me with it
Thanks



Has anyone else noticed the following (my wife, who is a literature
buff, noticed - I didn't): when Ben and Jerry(?) visit OEJs and the
madam (I assume) called Blackie comes out Ben starts quoting a
Shakespeare sonnet to her. But, he misses out 3 lines. The sonnet
follows, with the missed lines indented (He stops short, but that is
because he is interrupted by his brother)

Shall I compare thee to a summer's day?
Thou art more lovely and more temperate:
Rough winds do shake the darling buds of May,
      And summer's lease hath all too short a date:
      Sometime too hot the eye of heaven shines,
      And often is his gold complexion dimm'd;
And every fair from fair sometimes declines,

Ben stops here, but the sonnet continues:

By chance or nature's changing course untrimm'd;
But thy eternal summer shall not fade,
Nor lose possession of that fair thou owest;
Nor shall death brag thou wander'st in his shade,
When in eternal lines to time thou growest:
So long as men can breathe, or eyes can see,
So long lives this, and this gives life to thee.

I don't know if the last lines' being missed out is important, but surely the
three in the middle of the sonnet are deliberately missed out. Any ideas if it
has any meaning??????
************************************************************************
Moss Madden                        I    --I was collected in a limo,
ju39@uk.ac.liverpool               I      just like President Thieu--
...!mcvax!ukc!liverpool.ac.uk!ju39 I
*************************************************************************

     Yeah, this is something I've been thinking about too.
(Caveat: I've basically only seen the first 6 or so episodes --
we just saw the Singing Icelanders last night -- and I've tried
to follow the discussion on this newsgroup.  (Obviously, I don't
care about spoilers.))

     The character that BOB/Leland reminds me of most is Frank
Booth (the Dennis Hopper character) from _Blue Velvet_.  Both
can be extremely, amorally violent, but both can be extremely
moved by music.  I think that when BOB hears that old music from
his youth (40 years ago?) he just wants to inhabit someone and
dance along, and of course he wants someone to dance with.
I wouldn't go so far as the previous poster did and say "BOB is
just a fun guy who likes to dance, Leland is the killer", but
maybe there is more than one side to the BOB spirit.

     Clearly there's something funny with Leland and music, and
it's unlikely to be unconnected to BOB.  (For instance, in last
night's episode on BBC2, Leland seemed to be very unwilling to
start dancing at the reception for the Icelanders, and then
suddenly got into it.)

     Apologies if this is yet another dumb UK-newbie posting.

--
--Jamie.Original material copyright (c) 1990 by Jamie Andrews;
  jha@lfcs.ed.ac.ukfor distribution only on unmoderated USENET newsgroups.
      "Whoa dere, renaissance guy!  Ya coulda stopped at out ta lunch!"

From article <5904@kd4nc.UUCP>, by km4ba@kd4nc.UUCP (Allen Barrow):

>
> Does anyone know if Julie Cruise's album has the songs she sang
> at the bar the night Maddie was killed? She was pretty good.
>
Yes, "Floating Into The Night" has those songs as well as 3 songs which also
appear on the Twin Peaks soundtrack. David Lynch is credited with all of the
lyrics on FITN and Angelo Badalamenti is credited with all of the music. One
of the songs you are probably thinking about is "Rockin' Back Inside My Heart".
It is the one Donna was lip syncing to Bobby (or was that Milli Vanilli :-)
I think the one playing when the giant appeared and Maddy was killed is
"Mysteries Of Love".

-- 

Rob Gabbard (uunet!sdrc!evgabb)
Technical Development Engineer
Structural Dynamics Research Corp

In article <27810005@hprpcd.HP.COM>, jimh@hprpcd.HP.COM (Jim Hickey) writes...
> >The white horse has got to be an obvious 'clue'; we've seen it at least
> >2 times.  Correct me if I am wrong (and I'm sure you will), but in the
> >Book of Revelations there are different colored horses symbolizing different
> >things (red, blue, grey, etc).  The white horse symbolized evil.  I also 
> >remember much talk of fire.
> > 
> >C'mon, there's gotta be someone out there that can help us out with the
> >details...
> > 




'And I looked,and behold,a white horse,
 And he who sat on it had a bow;And a 
 crown was given to him; and he went
 out conquering,and to conquer.

                --Revelations 6:2







jorian nicholas wolfe




'bring on the noise'

In article <47941@eerie.acsu.Buffalo.EDU> v103pdt5@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu writes:
> >In article <27810005@hprpcd.HP.COM>, jimh@hprpcd.HP.COM (Jim Hickey) writes...
>> >>The white horse has got to be an obvious 'clue'; 
>> >>C'mon, there's gotta be someone out there that can help us out with the
>> >>details...
> >
> >'And I looked,and behold,a white horse,
> > And he who sat on it had a bow;And a 
> > crown was given to him; and he went
> > out conquering,and to conquer.
> >
> >                --Revelations 6:2
> >
Well, thank God we got that cleared up!
 
a.h.

...and wouldn't Donna and James, of all people, have known that
Maddy had a car in TP?

The most obvious problem with the bus station lie is that in the
11/10 episode Maddy said to Leland and Sarah that she thought
she would DRIVE back in the morning...suggesting that she had
no need for a bus to get home.

A Ring of Gold:

Next scene: the record with a GOLD label turning around in an
unbroken circle, just like the record at the Leo/Jacques cabin.

Perhaps this is a hypnotic trigger signal, like Jacoby used, that
makes someone go into a trance.    

Perhaps Jacoby is really the killer!

Can't be a symbolic scene cause they didn't have the heavy music
going in the background...

Have any of you seen rip-off advertising from TP?
I just saw an electronics magazine where Fluke has an
advertisement with the following in 40 pt type:

        T W I N      P E E K S

and it then takes about this 2 channel instrument.

Any others?

bthomas@Neon.Stanford.EDU (Becky Thomas) writes:

> >Hmm...please correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure someone will) but my
> >understanding of the closed-captioning system is that people sit,
> >listen to the program, and type in what they hear.  I remember hearing
> >someone who does this kind of work talking about how fast you have to type,
> >since you have to keep up.

There are several different types of closed-captioning systems.  When
a live event is being captioned, obviously the typing goes on in
real-time (and then you see typos and mistakes).  (Even here, though,
the typing isn't exactly as if you were typing at a computer terminal
- there exists the ability to define "keyboard macros" on the fly:
shorthand for commonly used words or names.  I don't know how
universal this is, but you can detect it when you see an obvious typo
crop up identically several times in one program).

If it is possible to get the script (or a videotape) in advance, then
things go much more smoothly.  It is my understanding though, that the
transcription is not always 100% literal - repeated sentences or
exclamations are sometimes cut out.  If a character speaks too quickly
the remarks might be abridged (sort of like bad subtitling).

I've heard of bells and whistles to make the use of screen real-estate
more efficient (color coding the captioning by maing speaker, or voice
tone, or...) thus allowing more room/time for a more faithful
transcription. 

To get back to Twin Peaks - given the secrecy surrounding the show
it's quite possible that the closed captioners get the script or tape
close to the last minute.  You can probably find out who is doing the
captioning and ask them what method they use.  If it is hurried, a
rush job, then the captioning isn't useful as an arbiter of 
alt.tv.twin-peaks disagreements.  If they get the scripts, then we can
use them as gospel.

> >So I think it's probably a mistake to assume that the closed captioning
> >is necessarily right.  On the other hand, maybe the people who do the
> >captioning do it a little ahead of time and so can listen to difficult
> >phrases a few times or even ask to see a script.  Anybody know?

> >Becky Thomas
> >bthomas@cs.stanford.edu

> >-- 
> >-- 

> >Becky Thomas
> >bthomas@cs.stanford.edu

I know this has been discussed to death already so could some kind soul please
E-MAIL me a summary of the differences in the Euroversion of TP. I am
especially interested in when it ran and any differences in sigfificant
details.

In the TP soundtrack album (actually cassette), among the pictures of the cast,
there is a photo and credit for "Killer BOB". He is standing in front of some
pipes/valves. Is this scene from the Euroversion (I suspect it is) or an
upcoming scene. 

Thx,

Jonathan Davidson

DAVIDSON@AC.DAL.CA
Dalhousie University
Halifax, Nova Scotia
Canada

This is a bit old now but the 11/13 TV suplement to my local paper ran a brief
article on the success of TP in Britain and David Lynch.

The last sentence states: "A Twin Peaks computer game is planned for next year,
according to The Times of London". Has anybody heard about this one? I'm
interested.

The article is date-lined London and was distributed by the NYT syndicate.

Thx.

Jonathan Davidson

DAVIDSON@AC.DAL.CA

Dalhousie University
Halifax, Nova Scotia
Canada

Now that we will only be seeing Sheryl Lee in pictures/dream sequences :-( 
I would like to know if she has any previous acting credits (eg. movies, TV)
and if anything is available on video.

Any bets on *yet another* return -- how many nieces does Sarah have anyway? :-)

Jonathan Davidson

DAVIDSON@AC.DAL.CA
Dalhousie University
Halifax, Nova SCotia
Canada

> > Hobbes is really a malevolent psychic entity that possesses
> > Calvin's stuffed tiger.  If you rearrange the letters in
> > "Hobbes" you get....
> >
> >HE'S BOB
.-.
|T|he tigers are not what they seem.  I must admit, I can't
`-' dispute this theory.  It certainly ties up more loose
    ends than th TV show does. :-)

"Y'know, icicles, snowflakes, they're all
unique.  They've each got their own
beautiful shape, and when they melt it's
gone forever.  That'w where I am now.
I've got my own shape, and I like it, and
I don't want to lose it, but . . . but
icicles are frightened of the sun." (43)

/F356/<_Jym_Dyer_>/B893/A972/F83/H25/N729/F387/G298/O37/X235/Q734/
/X243/K822/L262/B23/THE/OWLS/ARE/NOT/WHAT/THEY/SEEM/B383/L947/M84/
/M867/B586/K389/O98/AND/I/LIKE/WHALES/N37/B88/L867/P213/N297/B957/
/W482/jym@mica.berkeley.edu/I55/K387/P987/R80/Z903/Y983/O092/C381/

In article <1990Nov27.000228.2464@jato.jpl.nasa.gov>, floom@mars.jpl.nasa.gov
(Laura Floom) says:
>> >>I watched about twenty minutes of it.
> >I admire your tenacity. I lasted five minutes. The only good thing I can say
> >is: It will probably get canceled, then Albert can come back to TP where he
> >belongs!!! YEAH!!!
>> >>
I think the only reason I *did* watch the entire thing was

a) I had nothing better to do besides homework
b) There was nothing else on T.V.
C) I missed seeing Twin Peaks and wanted comfort of some sort (same characters)
d) I have no life therefore I was not out partying

Anyways, I hope you are right about it being cancelled (although many many
worse shows have lasted a very long time) and Albert does come back to T.P.
I seriously miss his sarcastic biting remarks.

> > In the dream sequence, Laura touched her nose with her right
> > index finger.  When Harry brings Cooper to meet the Bookhouse
> > Boys it turns out that this same gesture is the secret signal
> > of the Bookhouse Boys.  Coincidence?????  Hmmmmmm... 
.-.
|T|he secret Bookhouse Boys signal is a finger to the temple,
`-' not to the nose.  The Bookhouse Girls might well have their
    own secret signal, though . . .

/F356/<_Jym_Dyer_>/B893/A972/F83/H25/N729/F387/G298/O37/X235/Q734/
/X243/K822/L262/B23/THE/OWLS/ARE/NOT/WHAT/THEY/SEEM/B383/L947/M84/
/M867/B586/K389/O98/AND/I/LIKE/WHALES/N37/B88/L867/P213/N297/B957/
/W482/jym@mica.berkeley.edu/I55/K387/P987/R80/Z903/Y983/O092/C381/

In article <16059@bfmny0.BFM.COM> tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM (Tom Neff) writes:
> >I would love to think that Leland's hair turning white had to do with
> >killing Jacques Renault, but (a) it's just too damn much of a
> >coincidence that it happened over the season break, and (b) if he killed
> >Laura as well, why didn't his hair turn white then?  If someone else
> >killed Laura, why didn't THEIR hair turn white?  It doesn't wash.

What does (a) mean?  Why is it significant?  And personally I like the theory
that BOB/Leland killed both Laura and Maddy, and BOB/Leland is currently
still with us.  Leland, sans BOB, killed Jacques and went loopy because of
it.  Leland may well be subconsciously aware that he killed Laura, which may
explain his excessive, insnity-producing grief--which led him, without BOB's
involvement, to kill Jacques.  In this case, Jacques' death is a sort of
surrogate suicide for Leland the murderer, which is why he was so chipper
after Jacques' death.

Incoherent, but who cares, I've gotta get back to hacking.

> >'The Nazis have no sense of humor, so why   -|  Tom Neff
> >should they want television?' -- Phil Dick  |-  tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM


--
Rob Jellinghaus                 | "Next time you see a lie being spread or
Autodesk, Inc.                  |  a bad decision being made out of sheer
robertj@Autodesk.COM            |  ignorance, pause, and think of hypertext."
{decwrl,uunet}!autodesk!robertj |    -- K. Eric Drexler, _Engines of Creation_

In article <16439@s.ms.uky.edu> fehr@ms.uky.edu (Jeffrey Davis) writes:
> >
> >    During the current lull in TP activity it might be a good time
> >to ask a couple of non-plot related questions. First (and foremost),
> >what is TP about? Is it about owls, spirits, aliens, the murder
> >of a young girl, a spiritual miasma. 

At this point, I think it's a mistake to expect TP to be "about" a
particular "thing" or concept.  We've established that it's _not_
"about WKLP," although that was a plot element.  I don't expect to
get a TP "fix" that will satisfy my craving once-and-for-all.

> >  We need to know why the whole world isn't run by BOB and his elk...
> >er, ilk. Is BOB some animistic tree genii who's playing hookey?
> >When Mike says he saw God, how did he know? Whose GOD? (There
> >have been no churches in TP....have there even been any crucifixes?
> >any totems? any God's Eyes? ) Is God...well, the grey bearded, white,
> >Adam fingering, cloud swimmer? Or what? Lynch, methinks, has held
> >off for commercial, lets-not-offend-anyone reasons. 
                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Are we watching the same series??  A lot of folks were offended by
Maddie's little headache... I think the easily-offended have left
for other entertainment by now.

> >Maybe he
> >hopes that the series will be cancelled before its called to
> >account.

When my wife and I saw the Bob/Maddie scene, our immediate reaction was,
"Ah, the series will get pulled, Lynch will never have to resolve all
this stuff."  There really hasn't been as much protest as I expected.
I thought it was fantastic, myself. %)

-- Larry Spence larry@csccat.cs.com ...{uunet,texsun,cs.utexas.edu,decwrl}!csccat!larry

pouncy@campus.swarthmore.edu writes:
> >dipankar ray writes...

Whoops!  No, Dipankar Ray did not write it, I did, using his account.
Doesn't your newsposter remind you to check that your attribution matches the
signature at the bottom of the letter to which you're responding?

I wrote:
>> >>Who says (Sarah Palmer) was drugged?

> >Last week's USA today ran a Twin Peak's tips column that included
> >this tidbit - `Leland is drugging wife Sarah; neither is aware Leland
> >is killer BBO.'

Well, if USA Today says it, it must be true!  And BOB was giving Laura CPR.
Don't trust newspapers/magazines for this sort of info.  They're often in
the same boat we are.  Interviews with Lynch or Frost are another story,
though.  Then the writer can't make up his own interpretation and present it
as "inside information".

> >More on Dipankar Ray who says a lot of Leland-did-it stuff:

Check that.  I, Carl Johnson, said it.

> >As last season ended, Lynch/Frost made a similar effort to point as much
> >suspicion as possible on Jacques and Leo.  

Um, they never showed Leo or Jacques as BOB, killing and lettering a victim.

> >Remember the net traffic last spring - Dr. Jacoby's tape and pendant were
> >popularly considered indispensible clues.

The clues that the Ben-did-it's are clinging to are very similar.

The net also abounded with Andy-did-it's, Truman-did-it's, etc.  Clearly,
there are many on the net who were/are wrong.  The show, on the other hand,
is telling us that Leland/BOB killed Laura.

- Carl Johnson

tak@doe.utoronto.ca (Tak Ariga) writes:
> >It seems that Leland is trying to incriminate Ben, with the dairy/diary 
> >story.  Did Ben really mention diary/dairy on the phone?  We don't know, 
> >since it was the night before Laura's death, but my hunch is that Leland 
> >(or LelaBOB) made it up.

Since he knows that Ben is currently arrested for Laura's murder, BOB wouldn't
balk at making up some more nails for Ben's coffin.  But what I'm wondering is
how Leland/BOB knew that the diary had currently been found by the police and
that it placed suspicion on Ben.

BTW, I think that "dairy" was an obvious reference to the milk that Pete was
drinking at the Great Northern.  And the woodpecker to Cooper's post-dream
hairstyle.  And "Ain't she a caution!" to those yellow lights in the
intersections we see sometimes.  And the golfing to the Skins Game.  And
Leland's driving to those ads where the cars go in-and-out between the
pylons.  And Cooper's whistling to some show also on that same week where
some character was whistling.  There must have been one!

- Carl Johnson

csu@alembic.acs.com (Dave Mack) writes:
> >Please cite the evidence suggesting that BOB *can't* change hosts.

Uh, since nothing on the show has suggested that BOB, or other spirit-dudes,
*can* change hosts, the people claiming that BOB *can* are the ones that
have to support their theory.

But, let's see what this side of the fence can rake up.  MIKE mentions that
BOB has been in TP for forty years, and Leland has mentioned seeing BOB as a
child.  MIKE also said "BOB requires a human host," not "BOB requires human
hosts."  We've only seen BOB in Leland, and we've only seen MIKE in the OAM.
MIKE admits to the OAM being his only host, suggesting a similar relationship
must exist between Leland and BOB.  Leland's just-so-happening to have the
rubber gloves, X-Acto knife, and Flesh World letter is too much to swallow.
Also, the show wants to leave open the possibility that BOB isn't a spirit
at all, but a separate psychically-active personality of Leland's.  Finally,
that there is nothing else in the show to suggest that BOB *can* change
hosts, we have no reason, 'cept stubborness, to think otherwise.  Use Occam's
Razor.  There must be other indicators, but memory isn't a perfect database.

> >(I'm not saying there isn't any - I missed one episode, the one where
> >MIKE is revealed.)

???  You mean the one with Gordon Cole (David Lynch)?

> >As far as I know, the only reason to suspect that Leland has been BOB for a
> >long time is the assertion in the diary [...]

Forget the diary.  The role it played in the series was minimal, and there's
some dispute as to whether everything written in the diary is supposed to
have really been likewise written within the diary on the show.

> >(I don't regard Leland's assertion that he knew BOB when he was a child as
> >meaningful, since the statement may have come from BOB himself to mislead
> >Truman and Cooper. You think BOB can't lie?)

Sure, BOB can lie.  We've witnessed it.  Even if he's lying, the statement
still points to a longstanding relationship with Leland!  No one else.

> >On the other hand, the diary strongly suggests that Laura was BOB -

Forget the diary.  You shouldn't base a position regarding the show on the
diary.  That's like basing a position on the Euroversion.  We know there are
differences in both cases.  Maybe you could conclude that BOB can change
hosts in the context of the diary, but the show is a different entity.

- Carl Johnson

icsu8297@ming.cs.montana.edu (Wilbanks) writes:
> >In most cases where the audience knows the killer before the detective
> >does, the killer usually dies.

We've *always* known more than Cooper has!  What I like is that, with our
witnessing Maddy's murder, it's now turned into a Columbo-type show, the
epitome of shows where the audience knows more than the detective does.  And a
killer has yet to die in a Columbo episode, so I'm not concerned for Leland's
well-being just yet.

- Carl Johnson

In article <90331.140833TEF102@psuvm.psu.edu> TEF102@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
> >Coop's ex-partner is a master of disguise.  In my opinion, Leland is the second
> >best character on the show-Coop is the best.  If Lynch wanted to keep Leland on
> >the show, all he would have to do is reveal that Leland is actually Coop's ex-
> >partner in disguise and that he, not Leland killed Maddie and Jacques. 
...
> >This post is another product of the only man on the net, to my knowledge, who
> >predicted the death of Harold Smith.--ENJOY

Aha, but you're assuming that it was really Harold Smith hanging up
there.  Suppose it was Wyndham Earle who died, and the real Harold Smith
is across the border hiding out at One Eyed Jacks.

This is from the only person who successfully translated the little
boy's French sentence as, "I will outlive Gary Coleman."

-- Show me a sane man and I will ///O\ Tom Neff cure him for you. -- Carl Jung \\\O/ tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM

[incessant babble about what the kid magician who looks like David Lynch said
cropping up yet again DELETED!]

Come on people!  Please, please give this subject up!  We don't need to go into
the logistics of how the close captioned system works in order to see if what
was "typed" on screen was correct or not -- why? -- because the translation
was given to us BY COOPER HIMSELF!!!!  
He said:  "J'ai une ame solitaire"
I repeat: "J'ai une ame solitaire"
perhaps once more? "J'ai une ame solitaire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Cooper translates this to: "I am a lonely soul."
Before anyone jumps (again) at the use of "am" instead of "have," let me
remind everyone of what a knowledgable french-person said: frequently in
idiomatic use, "to have" is translated to "to be." 
example: "J'ai froid" means I AM cold; get it?

Therefore, once again, we have
"J'ai une ame solitaire" ---> "I am a lonely soul."

Now, let's all please stop talking about this subject!  I'm sorry to have
said anything at all, but there was a definite spark lighting up and, as I'm
sure we all agree, it needs to be put out!

Dave

"Je suis une homme de la terre."  <heh heh>

In article <KGFT9P6@cs.swarthmore.edu> pouncy@campus.swarthmore.edu writes:
> >d) Is BOB\Leland a one man crime wave in Twin Peaks responsible for almost
> >every act of violence except the brutal assassination of Waldo? 
> >Did he kill Theresa Banks, stab Laura, bludgeon Maddie, assault Ronette, 
> >shoot agent Cooper, smother Jacques, attack Jacoby, stain Ronette's IV bag, 
> >drive a two-armed man to self-mutilation, drug Sarah Palmer, 
> >and hang poor Harold Smith?

No. Yes. Yes. YES! Yes. No. Yes. No. No. Maybe. No. No.

No reason to assume BOB shot Cooper, and the jury is still out on Jacoby.
I don't know about the IV bag since I only saw that episode once (didn't
get it taped), but I don't think that's BOB's style.  He might have driven
the OAM to self mutilation, but I thought that was HIS spirit, not BOB.
There is no real reason to think Leland drugged Sarah, Sarah may have drugged
Sarah.  As for Harold, I think he killed himself.

-- | kreme@nyx.cs.du.edu |Growing up leads to growing old, and then to dying, and| |---------------------|dying to me don't sound like all that much fun. | | Dad! It's three o'clock in the morning! Do you know where I am? Calvin |

In article <9011250556.AA17891@hobbes.cert.sei.cmu.edu> hastur!jen@hobbes.cert.sei.cmu.edu writes:
> >I do not know if anyone has posted this yet, but I noticed this
> >today while listening to _Floating_into_the_Night_:

> > [Lyrics deleted]

Yes, I posted these lyrics a week or so ago, but I don't think they made
it out...

I found it interesting that these lyrics were omitted when JC sang this
song at the Roadhouse while it was "happening again."

I haven't been able to verify it by watching the episode again, but I
believe that they cut ahead to the next song "The World Spins (?)"
before she got to the these...  Is this true?

> >jen

David

--
  David J. Fred     Merit/NSFNET Network Operations Center
  djf@merit.edu     University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI

In article <2367@ac.dal.ca>, davidson@ac.dal.ca writes:
> > Now that we will only be seeing Sheryl Lee in pictures/dream sequences :-( 
> > I would like to know if she has any previous acting credits (eg. movies, TV)
> > and if anything is available on video.

The story I heard was: Lynch saw her in a local production in Seattle and cast
her for the `bit part' of Laura Palmer. He liked her so much he expanded
her role(s).

In article <35570012@hpopd.HP.COM>, richardh@hpopd.HP.COM (Richard
Hancock) writes:
|>I can't comment on US closed-captions, but UK subtitles for Twin Peaks have
|>been exceptionally accurate. Very few (non-Germans) in the UK would
know what a
|>"Wienie" (sp?) is, but the people who wrote the subtitles got it right.
|>
|>Having said that, they did transcribe "Low Town" as "Lotown". So I
assume that
|>they repeatedly listen to the soundtrack until they're confident that they've
|>understood what was said.
|>
|>Richard.
         
Although I think the UK subtitles are good I wouldn't go as far as saying
they are "exceptionally accurate".  They often don't have the full text of
what is actually said, which I accept as there isn't much room at the
bottom of the screen.  Though I do like they way they add extra information
about sounds on and off shot. (e.g "owl hoots" and "'Invitation to Love' 
in background") 

However they do get it wrong sometimes, missing some important points.
For example Jose often makes speech errors, and misuses idioms, however
the subtitles usually correct these mistakes.  I think one time
Jose says to Pete "On top in the morning to you" which Pete corrects
but the subtitles had already corrected it.  (Though I can't confirm 
that as the subtitles don't get recorded properly by the video).

Alan

Alan W Black                          80 South Bridge, Edinburgh, UK
Dept of Artificial Intelligence       tel: (+44) -31 225 7774 x228 or x223
University of Edinburgh               email: awb@ed.ac.uk

The following information was obtained from an article in the
Toronto Star by Antonia Zerbisias (Wed. Nov. 28):

Windom Earle will be played by Canadian actor Kenneth Welsh.
Welsh starts shooting his first of seven episodes next Wednesday.
Welsh starred in the CBC's movie Love and Hate, where he played a
man who murdered his ex-wife.  He apparently is also currently shooting
an NBC miniseries titled Love You To Death with Sheryl Lee.

Welsh says this about Windom Earle "He's a master of disguies, a
mastermind villain who quotes poetry.  He also plays the Japanese
Shakuhatchi flute".  According to Zerbisias "That's the flute the
ancient Samurai played - after their swords were outlawed.  Which
means the did more that tootle away on it".  Welsh apparenly really
does play the flute.

The article also commented on viewership.  The president of Global TV
(the station that picks up Twin Peaks in Canada) stated that Global gets
on average 500,000 viewers per episode in Ontario alone.  Ontario has
(I think) a population of around 5 million - Canada as a whole has
approximately 30 million people.  The president said "If Twin Peaks
did as well in the United States as it does here, it would be in the
Top 10".  Does this mean that us Canadians are more intelligent and/or
demented than our fellow Americans :>)

The other tidbit Zerbisias reported was that USA Today reported that
on Dec. 8th there will be a wake for Leland Palmer!  I can't wait
until Saturday to find out what that means.



Linda

:Might as well laugh at life, it sure is laughing at you:

In article <16062@bfmny0.BFM.COM> tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM (Tom Neff) writes:
> >In article <1990Nov25.055848.22598@alembic.acs.com> csu@alembic.acs.com (Dave Mack) writes:
>> >>In article <16048@bfmny0.BFM.COM> tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM (Tom Neff) writes:
We have not seen MIKE change hosts,
> >nor have we seen BOB change hosts.  It's just an unsupported conjecture.
 
       The only evidence I've seen for the host-jumper theory is 
a movie called The Hidden starring Kyle McLachlan as an agent pursuing
a host-hopping alien.  However, there is no real reason to think that Lynch/
Frost are using that plot idea for Twin Peaks.
> >

>> >>On the other hand, the diary strongly suggests that Laura was BOB -
>> >>his entries in the diary in the middle of hers. Maybe Leland reached
>> >>over her shoulder and wrote that stuff in without her noticing? Nah.
 
       I take two possible interpretations from the evidence that BOB 
could intersperse his writing with hers:
1) BOB is *practising*, exercising his ability to control a human and has
been building up control of Laura over several years. By the end, BOB is
able to move in and out of Laura at will. BOB writes "I just wanted to see
what was possible", explaining his interest in Laura.  This would indicate
that BOB has the capability to switch hosts but not easily. He requires
some time and effort to get in and to take control. 
 
2) BOB is nothing more than a figment of Leland's mental illness. All of
Bob's stunts are performed by natural means (if you include ESP as a natural
phenomenon).  Leland has simply been drugging Laura and writing in her diary
while she is unconscious. I conversation could develop that way since Leland
had full access to Laura and her diary and could write a note every time he
saw that she was asleep or unconscious.
 

> >Here's some food for thought.  Only two people have mentioned BOB by
> >name in the series/Diary.  One is MIKE; the other is Laura.  MIKE was
> >"touched by the devilish one" but "saw the face of God" and apparently
> >saved himself at the cost of an arm, thereafter becoming BOB's sworn
> >enemy.  Laura liked to "play with BOB" and ultimately seemed to be
> >welcoming her own death -- perhaps as the sacrifice that would save her
> >as MIKE saved himself?  However, MIKE seems to be inhabiting the
> >otherwise mortal Gerard, with MIKE being the one who actually detects
> >BOB; did Laura have a spirit side, or was she 'damned' and thus able to
> >see him?  A lot of tough questions remaining out there.

     The diary clearly shows that Laura *did not* like to play with
BOB.  But otherwise your theory that she may have been trying to sacrifice
something of her life to save her soul doesn't contradict the evidence.
At the end of the diary she is clearly headed for a confrontation with
BOB and she says at one point that she thinks one of them will die as a
result of the confrontation. 
 
a.h.

In article <1990Nov29.033121.2079@agate.berkeley.edu> kumasawa@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Ice) writes:
> >pouncy@campus.swarthmore.edu writes:
>> >>dipankar ray writes...
well *somebody* wrote:
> >
>>> >>>Who says (Sarah Palmer) was drugged?
 
ME.  I said it. It's my theory, all mine, I thought of it. Damn fine theory
too.    (Ann Hodgins)

As was written on 11/28:
> >Statistics show that the majority of violence is directed
> >  against women ...

Maybe we should fire all the cops and hire more statisticians ?

Up here in Boston there's a billboard for some ski resort
with a picture of their mountain and the tag line

   This Peak has no Twin

(not even very funny)

Charles Sumner
st860816@pip.cc.brandeis.edu

I have heard Sherilyn Fenn has had a past relationship with 
Prince among others.  I think another was Johnny Depp (?).
Does anyone have any more information on this.  Are there any
others.  Enquiring minds want to know, dammit!

Also,  does anyone have a complete listing of the movies she's
appeared in.  I think there was a gargantuan list on rec.arts.tv
with just about any actress imaginable in it.  I didn't save it
and don't know if she was in it.

PEACE

Help!  I've gotten some GIFs, & I ftped & compiled the artshow
GIF-viewer that's supposed to work on SUNs, but this viewer has the
undocumented feature that it only works with color monitors, & I only
have access to B&Ws.  So, does anyone know of a GIF-viewer that will 
work on monochrome-SUNs?  I am in desperate straits here!  (Well, not
really, but alittle hyperbole never hurt anyone...)

"Leland says you're going back to Missoula, MONTANA!"
George.Harris@samba.acs.unc.edu

For those of you who not only wish to listen to, but to *play* the music
from Twin Peaks, the music is now available in sheet music form.  The songs
included are:

Twin Peaks Theme
Love Theme from Twin Peaks (Laura Palmer's Theme)
Audrey's Dance
The Nightingale
Freshly Squeezed
Into The Night
Dance of the Dream Man
Falling

The book also features pictures of donuts, cherry pie, the RR Diner interior,
the dwarf, the waterfall, and Laura Palmer as Prom Queen.

There is also an introduction by Bruce Pollock.

It's published by Cheery Lane Music Company, Inc.  The address (for those of
you who can't find it in your local music stores) is:

Cherry Lane Music Company, Inc.
P.O. Box 430
Port Chester, NY  10573

-Pete Zakel
 (phz@cadence.com or ..!{hpda,versatc,apollo,ucbcad,uunet}!cadence!phz)

In article <16062@bfmny0.BFM.COM> tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM (Tom Neff) writes:
> >In article <1990Nov25.055848.22598@alembic.acs.com> csu@alembic.acs.com (Dave Mack) writes:
>> >>
>> >>Please cite the evidence suggesting that BOB *can't* change hosts.
> >
> >Why?  I don't need to chase after negative evidence here -- I'm the one
> >wielding Occam's Razor.  Having BOB change hosts is just an unnecessary
> >multiplication of hypotheses.  It's not necessary for BOB to inhabit
> >anyone but Leland in order to explain anything we've seen in the show or
> >the Diary.  Some people seem to want to throw in this host-changing idea
> >just so they don't have to give up their favorite Andy/Truman/Nadine-did-it 
> >theories!  That's not good enough.  We have not seen MIKE change hosts,
> >nor have we seen BOB change hosts.  It's just an unsupported conjecture.

I think we're losing focus a bit here. The important question isn't "Can
BOB switch hosts," it's "Who killed Laura Palmer." The assertion that
BOB has been in Leland since childhood and *cannot* switch hosts means
that Leland/BOB killed Laura as well as Theresa Banks.

I will accept this if you can give me a plausible answer to one question:
why did Leland's hair turn white on the night he killed Jacques Renault?

If you're correct, Leland/BOB had already murdered not only Theresa Banks,
but his own daughter. Why would murdering Jacques turn his hair white?
And then there's the change in personality at the same time.

I contend that BOB took over Leland on the night Leland murdered
Jacques - the act of murder allowed BOB entry - and that this is
why Leland's hair turned white and he suddenly developed a sunny
disposition.

And we *still* don't know who killed Laura Palmer. Or rather, we
don't know whom BOB was inhabiting when he killed Laura.

-- Dave Mack

In article <1990Nov29.234402.12604@alembic.acs.com> csu@alembic.acs.com (Dave Mack) writes:
> >I think we're losing focus a bit here. The important question isn't "Can
> >BOB switch hosts," it's "Who killed Laura Palmer." The assertion that
> >BOB has been in Leland since childhood and *cannot* switch hosts means
> >that Leland/BOB killed Laura as well as Theresa Banks.

(a) cannot or CHOOSES not to, either way

(b) if the lettered fingnail means BOB did it then Leland did Banks,
    Laura and Maddy as well as Jacques, and visited Ronette.  Dunno why
he didn't kill Ronette; maybe he thought he had.  (blue stuff)  Why
didn't they check Renault for a letter: maybe it was too early to ID
Leland as the serialist.

> >I will accept this if you can give me a plausible answer to one question:
> >why did Leland's hair turn white on the night he killed Jacques Renault?

Damn all, I don't think it DID!  Or rather, that it was not originally
planned at the time Jacques' snuffing was scripted, that Leland would be
a cottontop in the next episode.  I have said this before.  I think this
is an "artifact" of the long inter-season break.  Maybe Ray Wise got
tired of dyeing his hair and decided to bleach it instead.  Maybe when
he reported to the studio that way, instead of telling him to dye it
back, something quirky lit up in Lynch and made him decide he liked the
change...  even though it ultimately poses the above mentioned logic
problem to us Monday morning Peaks dweeb sleuths.  Who knows.  I mean,
why did DONNA'S hair change color?  Did it redden from the shock of
listening to Jacoby's tape, or what?  I just think the Peaks people were
sloppy on continuity between seasons.

> >I contend that BOB took over Leland on the night Leland murdered
> >Jacques - the act of murder allowed BOB entry - and that this is
> >why Leland's hair turned white and he suddenly developed a sunny
> >disposition.

Actually hasn't Leland been something of a fruitcake since Day One?
I wonder if the "sunny disposition" and drop-of-a-hat soft shoe
tendencies weren't just other "character decisions" made over the
summer.  Hate to be cynical, but it seems like every time we find out
the inside story on why something was done it turns out to be for a
pretty stupid reason.  :-)

bobk@hpscdc.scd.hp.com (Bob Kelley) writes:

> > A Ring of Gold:
> > 
> > Next scene: the record with a GOLD label turning around in an
> > unbroken circle, just like the record at the Leo/Jacques cabin.

Well, gee, shit a brick, maybe I was right. :>

**************************************************************************
"Mr. BOB, you've killed Theresa Banks,   *                Richard Barrett
 Laura Palmer, Jacques Renault, and      *             18004 146th Ave NE
 Maddy Ferguson. What are you going to   *          Woodinville, WA 98072
 do next?"                               *                (206)487-1312
"I'm going to Disneyland!"               *hikaru%halcyon.uucp@seattleu.edu
**************************************************************************

markn@cbnewsm.att.com (mark.nevar) writes:

> > In article <1990Nov28.214136.7117@mailer.cc.fsu.edu>, ridgway@evax0.eng.fsu.e
>> > >   What is the *best* line of dialogue yet uttered in the show?  Not the 
>> > > 
>> > > "I feel like I know her but sometimes my arms bend back."
>> > > 
> > 
> > "Bart, if they gave a ballon to every fly-by-night cartoon character, they'd
> > turn the parade into a farce!"
> > 
> > Er, sorry, wrong group.
> > 
> > "Leland tells me your going back to Missoulo, MONTANA!"


Mine is: "And I'd also like a glass of orange juice, just as long as 
those oranges..." >Audrey walks (or perhaps I should say slinks) in, 
Cooper definitely notices< "...are freshly squeezed."

**************************************************************************
"Mr. BOB, you've killed Theresa Banks,   *                Richard Barrett
 Laura Palmer, Jacques Renault, and      *             18004 146th Ave NE
 Maddy Ferguson. What are you going to   *          Woodinville, WA 98072
 do next?"                               *                (206)487-1312
"I'm going to Disneyland!"               *hikaru%halcyon.uucp@seattleu.edu
**************************************************************************

rand@merrimack.edu writes:

> > In article <2367@ac.dal.ca>, davidson@ac.dal.ca writes:
>> > > Now that we will only be seeing Sheryl Lee in pictures/dream sequences :-( 
>> > > I would like to know if she has any previous acting credits (eg. movies, TV
>> > > and if anything is available on video.
> > 
> > The story I heard was: Lynch saw her in a local production in Seattle and cas
> > her for the `bit part' of Laura Palmer. He liked her so much he expanded
> > her role(s).


Hmmm. That sounds far too similar to Kyle Maclachlan's story, which is 
exactly the same, with the exception that Kyle got a starring role. In 
Dune, no less. 
I think somebody probably got their wires crossed and got the stories 
confused...

**************************************************************************
"Mr. BOB, you've killed Theresa Banks,   *                Richard Barrett
 Laura Palmer, Jacques Renault, and      *             18004 146th Ave NE
 Maddy Ferguson. What are you going to   *          Woodinville, WA 98072
 do next?"                               *                (206)487-1312
"I'm going to Disneyland!"               *hikaru%halcyon.uucp@seattleu.edu
**************************************************************************

From: tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM (Tom Neff)

*Also, can anyone out there confirm that thousands of LOGS have been
*tumbling over Snoqualmie Falls the last few days, due to the weeks of
*heavy rain?  Does anyone know if location work is being messed up, or
*are they done with that for the season?

As far as I know, thousands of EVERYTHING have been washing over the falls,
down the river, and away out of sight.  I saw a copter shot of the Falls
on the news last week and it looked FRIGHTENING.  Like a beast come to life.
It looked like at least twice as much water was flowing over it, and the
water was rough and brown and wild, LEAPING over the edge.

For those who don't know, the floods in western Washington have been severe.
Whole herds of cattle are swimming around out there, and part of the old
I-90 bridge *sank*.

Jespah

After viewing the preview once more, I have two questions:

Can anyone tell *what* that first scene is (before the record player)?

Who is talking to Donna?  (saying "Donna, back up" or some such thing)

I know I will find out in just a few days, but I am a very impatient person.

Jespah

From: awb@uk.ac.ed.aipna (Alan W Black)

*However they do get it wrong sometimes, missing some important points.
*For example Jose often makes speech errors, and misuses idioms, however
*the subtitles usually correct these mistakes.  I think one time
*Jose says to Pete "On top in the morning to you" which Pete corrects
*but the subtitles had already corrected it.  (Though I can't confirm 
*that as the subtitles don't get recorded properly by the video).

I read this thinking to myself "Jose?  *Jose*?  Must be some hispanic
character that I missed.  I thought I knew all the characters!"

Her name is not Jose (ho-say), her name is JOSIE (jo-see).

Jespah

I've been getting more and more interested in Cooper.  When TP first started,
Cooper seemed like a totally neat guy.  He's competent, commanding, honest --
a "good man" -- but also 
a) retains a sense of wonder (e.g. Douglas firs, snowshoe rabbits, pie, coffee)
b) is an original -- lives life on his own terms.  Tibet, etc.

That was fun enough.  However, as the TP continues Cooper is getting even more
interesting, namely, his flaws are showing up.  Turns out Cooper is *not*
infallible (his ideas of WKLP have gone through Bobby, Leo, Ben, etc. -- he
so far has corrected his mistakes pretty quickly, but they *were* mistakes).
He gives the APPEARANCE of being infallible due to his great self-confidence
and perfect posture, but actually he is NOT infallible.  This is not earth- 
shattering but it's interesting.

Cooper also is a very strict guy.  EVERYTHING is by-the-book.  "Do you approve
of murder, Dr. Hayward?"  "Shouldn't you have gone through the proper channels,
Mr. Horne?"  "It's wise to leave your troubles at home when operating a vehicle,
Leland."  etc.  He talks like someone out of Dragnet.  Somehow I don't know
what to make of this.  Does he ever let go?  Does he see the universe as
operating under very strict laws?  This trait mixes strangely with his
psychic side, such that he ends up being a by-the-book psychic.  ("I'm a 
strong sender" for example -- he has his own code of behavior even for the
weird stuff.)

It is rare that we see Cooper being anything other than businesslike.  (Even
when he was lying there bleeding he was dictating a list of what he would 
have liked to do in his life!)  Therefore the scenes in which his facade
cracks for a moment really stick with me:    

1) Caressing Audrey's face to calm her as she wakes up in the Bookhouse.  
She says, crying,  "I prayed and prayed that you'd come, and you did!". 
Cooper looks kind of grim here.  I think that, besides being totally
exhausted, he was really feeling bad that he had forgotten her note for
so long (not that it was his fault!)

2) In the last (11/17) episode, when he opens the door for Audrey, kind
of wary, holding a gun.  She sees his bandage and says "Ooh!  Is that where
you got shot?"  He says "Yeah", immediately turning aside and buttoning
his shirt.  He was embarrassed!  He was really cute in this scene. :-)
First time I've seen him embarrassed.

3) In the Roadhouse right after Maddy was killed, when SDC comes over and
says "I'm so sorry!"  Coop is really puzzled and is trying to figure out
what's gone wrong.  He's not in control anymore and he doesn't know why.
   
I don't know what I'm getting at here.  I'm just curious about Cooper. 
Does he ever have doubts?  Get lonely?  Doubt his interpretations of his
visions?  Has he ever been in love?  Is he really scared of Wyndham?
Does he have a sense of the absurd?  I know he has a basic sense of humor
("Albert -- you're making a joke!") and a sense of wonder (see above) but
somehow I don't think he has a sense of the absurd, or at least he stifles
it.  I guess living/working in a place like TP, where the absurd, the bizarre,
and the weird are everyday things, would dull that type of humor.  Does he
know how funny the things he says are?  Where did he learn to talk like
that?  I've heard those rumors that Coop will be falling in love soon,
and am *very* interested to see how he acts.  It seems that falling in love
requires losing control to some extent, and I wonder what that will be
like for him.       

Blah, blah, blah.  'Scuse my rambling.

Jespah

-Message-Text-Follows-
The blurb at the end of the last TP episode shows Cooper and the Giant
standing face to face in Spirit-Land with A Circle Of Gold between thenm ,
which is very obviously Cooper's ring.  I guess Coop get's his ring back as
all three  of the Giant's prophecies have come true, including "without
chemicals he points"

To Dave who posted article 8062:
> > Je suis une homme de la terre

Don't you mean 
" Je suis une POMME de [la] terre?"   :->
Sorry, I couldn't resist that...

P.s. Notice how powerful the evil spirits seem in this world of TP, while the
good spirits seem kinda helpless - see 11/10 episode: while BOB is having fun
with Maddy, the giant and Margharet's Log can't do anything.,

> > Daniel

-Message-Text-Follows-





Sorry, some of my last message entered the Twilight Zone.
As I was saying...
The program trailer that previews the 12/1 episode shows a shot of Cooper
standing face to belly with the giant in Spirit Land with A Circle of Gold
between them, quite obviously (to me) Coop's ring.  It seems that the Giant
will be returning the ring after his three prophesies have come true,
including (it appears) "without chemicals he points".  So the Giant should be
helping Coop make some progress.  Otherwise I will lose faith in "New-York's
finest" federal agent.  
My personal theory about BOB is that he is, and always has been connected
with Leland, but the diary entry business shows that he is more than just a
split personality of Leland's, drtawing on the world that the other spirits
exist in.  They seem to be an integral part of TP , the community as well as
the program.

We went over the BOB/Leland - Maddy scene in my English class, disecting it
at every step, and it seemed a _lot_less_scary_ than it did the first time I
watched it.

Can't wait for Saturday night...
> >Daniel Pedersen  DUP94@campus.swarthmore.edu

In article <6BFFT5w163w@halcyon.uucp>, hikaru%halcyon.uucp@seattleu.edu (Richard Barrett) writes:
> > rand@merrimack.edu writes:
>> >> The story I heard was: Lynch saw her in a local production in Seattle and cas
>> >> her for the `bit part' of Laura Palmer. He liked her so much he expanded
>> >> her role(s).
> > 
> > Hmmm. That sounds far too similar to Kyle Maclachlan's story, which is 
> > exactly the same, with the exception that Kyle got a starring role. In 
> > Dune, no less. 
> > I think somebody probably got their wires crossed and got the stories 
> > confused...

Perhaps I should have said `In an interview with David Lynch I heard...'.
In any event, that's the stry.

In article <755@ark.UUCP>, peiges@ark.UUCP (Bert Soto) writes:
> > I have heard Sherilyn Fenn has had a past relationship with 
> > Prince among others.  I think another was Johnny Depp (?).
> > Does anyone have any more information on this.  Are there any
> > others.  Enquiring minds want to know, dammit!

Fenn, Sherilyn          Crime Zone
                        Just One of the Guys
King of Beasts, The
                        Meridian
                        Out of Control
                        Thrashin'
                        True Blood
                        Two-Moon Junction
                        Wild at Heart
                        Wild Life, The
                        Wraith, The
                        Zombie High

/ hpopd:alt.tv.twin-peaks / hikaru%halcyon.uucp@seattleu.edu (Richard Barrett) /  1:54 am  Nov 30, 1990 /

Mine is: "And I'd also like a glass of orange juice, just as long as 
those oranges..." >Audrey walks (or perhaps I should say slinks) in, 
Cooper definitely notices< "...are freshly squeezed."

----------

Actually, it was "grapefruit". I can give you the whole quote (if you want/if
no one else does).

Richard.