Season 2, Episode 09: Arbitrary Law — December 01–07, 1990

In norway they just started showing Twin Peaks this autumn. And since I'm
going abroad soon I really want to know:



WHO KILLED LAURA PALMER???


All replies(by email) would be welcome!

Wolverine!

Well, this is one of the best alltime TP quotes but I've never seen
the soundfile posted.  It's Pete saying "There was a fish...Iiiinnn...
the percolator!"

This is a binhex'd file.

BY THE WAY!  Before you download that file, please do me a favor:  reply
to me and tell me that you saw this posting and you used the soundfile.
I hate to sound maudlin, but I haven't gotten any sign from anybody that
my postings have even appeared from the net.  Even though there is alot
of discussion on the net about soundfiles, I haven't heard any references
to my many (about 8 in the last month) contributions.  All I want to find
out is if it's really worth the trouble to get them on the net if nobody
is reading them!!

Thanks,
Greg Sandell


Attachments:
Part 1.267.5 KB

This is a binhex'd MacRecorder sound of Andy shouting to Albert
"You just shut your mouth!"  Please reply to me if you see this
posting.  Thanks.


Attachments:
Part 1.244.6 KB

In article <1990Dec4.181722.12664@watdragon.waterloo.edu>,
vehaag@crocus.uwaterloo.ca (Viktor Haag) says:
> >
> >In article <3050@gmuvax2.gmu.edu> jhanks@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (John Hanks) writes:

> >I think that it is important to remember that Lynch wants it ambiguous
> >whether Leland is a desintigrating personality, or whether BOB is a malign
> >outside influence - with this in mind, it would seem sensible to suggest that
> >BOB cannot really exist outside of Leland, and that the scene at the end
> >of 12/1 may have been the 'spirit world' coming to claim BOB now that his
> >'host' has died.   Just a thought - it could be a completely different thing.
> >

I would disagree with this, since Leland stated that BOB was
trying to take over Laura and that Laura died to prevent this from
happening.  Therefore, BOB can enter another person.  The question
would be how does he get into the other person.  From what Leland said
(correct me if I am wrong), BOB approaches the person and then opens
them up (somehow).  From what he said about Laura's resistence this
process takes time and the person has to be reasonably willing.

Can anyone print a copy of the Leland's speech when he was explaining
to Cooper how BOB came to possess him?  It was hard to understand him,
what with him dying and the sprinklers going off.




Linda

"Agent Cooper, all the problems of our entire society are of a
sexual nature"

In article <1990Dec4.223258.1668@mdivax1.uucp> mdivax1!bb30c!jbrindle (Jennifer Brindle) writes:
> >Why would Truman leave Twin Peaks?  He's the Sheriff, he's from there, it's
> >his home.  Cooper, on the other hand, is the stranger in town.  He holds no
> >ties to the town and since the reason he was called in has been solved, he
> >should be the one leaving.

Truman's motive for leaving is the same as Cooper's for staying: passion.

Josie's in Hong Kong, so Truman takes off; Audrey's in Twin Peaks so Cooper
stays put.

There are other reasons; Truman finds it all just too weird, and needs to
get away.  The woods he grew up in seem very strange to him now.

Cooper knows that Bob's probably nearby, and won't be eager to leave until
he's tracked him down.  And if Windom Earle is coming to Twin Peaks, then
that's where Cooper will wait for him.

Of course, this is all purely speculative...

-- Bernie Roehl, University of Waterloo Electrical Engineering Dept Mail: broehl@watserv1.waterloo.edu OR broehl@watserv1.UWaterloo.ca BangPath: {allegra,decvax,utzoo,clyde}!watmath!watserv1!broehl Voice: (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]

Hey folks,
I found out about a place that sells great T-shirts.  I know this post
comes a long time after the request, but I am not a computer jock and I
had to get someone else to turn on my external bboard posting capability
(Thanks Dave, wherever you are).  Some friends of mine from the Seattle
area showed up on my last trip to California with shirts from a diner in
Snoqualomie (spelling ?).  They are from the "MAR-T" and have a picture of
a pie on them.  I don't remember exactly what they looked like, but had
the phrase, "Where Pies go When They Die," or something akin to that...
The manager of the Diner is named Pat and she takes phone orders between
5:30 am and 5:00 am pacific standard time.  At last report, they were $15.
206-888-1221.             Tracy Fluharty
                   School of Urban & Public Affairs; Carnegie Mellon

 >> kck@g.gp.cs.cmu.edu (Karl Kluge)

 >> What, then, are we to make of the dwarf saying that Laura was
 >> his cousin if the dwarf was supposed to be Leland?

Postulate that, in a dream-like way, the girl in the dream represents
both Laura and Maddie (at the same time, or at different times). Un-
less I'm misremembering the chronology, Maddie has already arrived, 
but Coop does not yet know it.

The dwarf (=Leland) says "She's my cousin." If you take the "she" at 
this moment to stand for Maddie, then Leland speaks truth, because 
Laura's cousin is also his cousin -- once removed.
--
-->Keith
dawson@epps.kodak.com

In article <1990Dec5.111121.517@vixvax.mgi.com>, eiswirth@vixvax.mgi.com (Steve Eiswirth) writes...
> >5.  I agree with a previous poster that the James-Donna lovers' quarrel scenes
> >are chock full of bad acting and writing.  Good riddance to James, I hope he's
> >written out of TP.
> >

My friends and I have decided that the guy who plays James (sorry,
forgot his name) is either a great actor playing a really dense person or
one of the world's worst actors.  Of course it does'nt help that the lines
he gets are probably the worst that any character gets in the show.

> >STEVE.

Dave Reid
Indiana University Cyclotron Facility

<<Including this message for vanhoek-who can't post from
<<her site (berggren@saturn.ucsc.edu):

I haven't seen anyone else point this out before: Doesn't
it seem a little odd for Cooper to suggest to Ben that he
should bring Leland Palmer along to the police station as
his lawyer?  I mean, of course he did it as a ruse to get
Leland down there--but it doesn't seem like a very good 
ruse, since Ben was accused of killing Leland's daughter.
Or do you think Cooper was counting on the fact that 
Leland was too BOBbed-out to notice the glitch in his
thinking?  (Since BOB seemed to be inhabiting Leland
pretty continuously, the scene with Leland saying he 
would like to work on arranging bail immediately--for
his daughter's accused murderer!--would presumably be
BOB's best effort at playing lawyer.)  What do you
think--the writers weren't entirely on the ball, or
Cooper was counting on BOB not to be entirely on the
ball?

KvH

 I don't think any TP videotapes are likely to be released at this
point, except for perhaps the first episode (a la 'Moonlighting.')
 The reason I say this is because networks/production companies are
reluctant to lose the sydnication market for their show by releasing
videotapes before the show ends.
 On the other hand, I would like to see these shows released myself...

> > Of course, James' "Hog" is real enough... Do they ever
> >    actually call it a Harley Davidson?
> >
Has anyone looked close enough, maybe it's a Hurley Davidson?
Would that make a great hidden joke...gotta rewind and look.

--
        clindh@abalon.se              ::     o/    
   Abalon AB, Stockholm, Sweden       ::    /@     fight gravity.
                                      ::    <|\        climb.
     *All disclaimers apply*          ::     |     

--
        clindh@abalon.se              ::     o/    
   Abalon AB, Stockholm, Sweden       ::    /@     fight gravity.
                                      ::    <|\        climb.
     *All disclaimers apply*          ::     |

.-.
|E|arle has been referred to as a "he" in the show.
`-'
/F356/<_Jym_Dyer_>/B893/A972/F83/H25/N729/F387/G298/O37/X235/Q734/
/X243/K822/L262/B23/THE/OWLS/ARE/NOT/WHAT/THEY/SEEM/B383/L947/M84/
/M867/B586/K389/O98/AND/I/LIKE/WHALES/N37/B88/L867/P213/N297/B957/
/W482/jym@mica.berkeley.edu/I55/K387/P987/R80/Z903/Y983/O092/C381/

In article <4491@idunno.Princeton.EDU> bskendig@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) writes:
> >(3) How did she get to the diary to make a last entry in it on the day
> >that she died, and then get that back to Harold?
> >
> >"She went to visit Harold."

Exactly.  You've solved this yourself.

> >No, I get the feeling that we would have
> >been told if Laura had visited Harold on that day.

Why?  I like your explanation more than you do!

> >And I don't think Harold had anything to do with it -- you think he
> >would have willingly parted with even a single page?

The sealed envelope had his handwriting on it.

-- Bernie Roehl, University of Waterloo Electrical Engineering Dept Mail: broehl@watserv1.waterloo.edu OR broehl@watserv1.UWaterloo.ca BangPath: {allegra,decvax,utzoo,clyde}!watmath!watserv1!broehl Voice: (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]

In article <1990Dec4.155139.27471@watserv1.waterloo.edu> alternat@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Ann Hodgins) writes:
> >In article <59542@microsoft.UUCP> jeffhi@microsoft.UUCP (Jeff HINSCH) writes:
>> >>I'm willing to bet large denominations of $$ on 
>> >>this premise: Bob was an actual rat at the end
>> >>of the show (I think his presence went down the
>> >>drain behind Leland's head and inhabited a rat),
>> >>and the owl we saw was attacking the rat.  Did
>> >>you see how the camera's perspective ran through
>> >>the ditch past small drain pipes and a branch?
>> >>
> >Well Jeff, despite the fact that it is in competition with mine, I like
> >this theory a lot. [...] The perspective was like that of a small animal [...]
> >Also, I noticed in the previous episode the picture over Audrey's shoulder
> >as she was talking with Cooper in his room. It seemed to show flying
> >creatures grabbing smaller creatures in their talons. I thought
> >it was either of owls and rabbits or kingfishers and fish.
> >I assumed that the owl in the final scene was Bob grabbing a soul but as you
> >say it could be another owl-spirit grabbing Bob.

I really like Jeff's idea too!  Here's my own thinking.

I agree that the perspective was of a rat, running through a ditch or sewer.
The rat is representative of BOB's host, Leland.

Kind of symbolic, metaphorical.
BOB=owl
BOB possessed victim= rat
owls prey on rats.   
BOB's host is in BOB's grasp.  
Rats are in Owl's grasp, as seen in the painting Ann Hodgins mentions above.

This rat imagery is not new!  It's in the diary.
(for those who think the diary is innacurate, I think you are wrong,
and you can skip the rest of this message)

I've mentioned this page before, when claiming that Laura wanted to die.

page 48.  Take a look if you have a copy.

Laura dreams she is attacked by a big rat that wants to take her foot off.
She takes the foot off herself.

The dream suggests as strongly as can be that the rat is representative
of Leland/BOB.

On page 50 she again mentions rats, and again implies that rat= BOB's 
possessed human host.


So what are we seeing at the end of the last show?   We see a rat,
scurrying into a bright light.  Leland was entering a bright light,
so that fits.  We see an owl, diving for prey.  I think BOB is about 
to prey on a new victim , find a new host to grasp in his claws, a new rat.


Next victim? Probably Leo.  Why?  He's least able to resist, most likely
to want to invite him in.

Michael Kaye   horny@ucscb.ucsc.edu

In article <12337@milton.u.washington.edu> jespah@milton.u.washington.edu (Kathleen Hunt) writes:
> >From: dlp@zule.EBay.Sun.COM (Dan Pritchett)
> >In article <9741@fy.sei.cmu.edu> dd@sei.cmu.edu (Dennis Doubleday) writes:
> >**...
> >**COOPER: Harry, is it easier to believe that a man would rape and
> >**murder his daughter?
> >**
> >**In the real world, the unspoken answer to the question is "Yes".  And
> >**that is the horror of it.

> >Wait a minute -- the answer is "yes".  Yes, it is easier to believe 
> >in child abuse than in inhabiting spirits.  Did you read the question
> >in some other way?  Are we all talking about the same thing?

There was a second phrase in the question:
Harry, is it easier to believe that a man would rape and
murder his daughter? More comforting?
---------------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This means to me that the word "easier" doesn't mean "less hard"
but "less disturbing". Given that meaning, the answer is "YES".



Andrew L. Duane (JOT-7)  w:(508)-685-7200 X122
Samsung Software America decvax!cg-atla!samsung!duane
1 Corporate Drive  uunet/
Andover, MA.   01810 duane@samsung.com

Only my cat shares my opinions, and she has a 'Q' under her claw.

broehl@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Bernie Roehl) writes:

> > In article <1990Nov30.183315.1438@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> svihla@evax0.eng.fsu.edu
>> > >"It is happening again" that refers to BOB once more taking
>> > >possession of Leland, this time for good and all.  If BOB had been present
>> > >in Leland before this, Maddy would have been able to see him.  This, of cour
>> > >leaves the question of why Sarah... blah blah blah

The giants quote "It is happening again..." I believe refers to the fact
that B0B/Leland was killing again - like he did with LP.  I base this
on the facts -

- B0B is stuck in Leland and can't get out until Leland dies -or- is near
  death.

- Maddy had already seen Leland when B0B was "active" (The question is
  was he ALWAYS "active") and did not react.  Perhaps she caught a clue
  when B0B/Leland facePlanted her in the picture (which, I might add,
  was promptly replaced in the next episode).  

Useless fact - 

   Much of the visions of B0B took place in the Palmer LivingRoom, this
also holds true of Sarah Palmer's vision of the white horse - Troy.

mikul@darkside.com orEVENbetter mikul@ucscb.ucsc.edu.
really.
ver moo.

In article <9769@darkstar.ucsc.edu> horny@ucscl.UCSC.EDU (Michael Kaye) writes:
> >
> >The rat is representative of BOB's host, Leland.
> >
> >Kind of symbolic, metaphorical.
> >BOB=owl

`The owls are not what they seem.'


Tom Kuchar
kuchar@buast7.bu.edu
Department of Astronomy
Boston Univerity

In article <5070@atexnet.UUCP> dawson@epps.kodak.com (Keith Dawson) writes:

> >Postulate that, in a dream-like way, the girl in the dream represents
> >both Laura and Maddie (at the same time, or at different times). Un-
> >less I'm misremembering the chronology, Maddie has already arrived, 
> >but Coop does not yet know it.

> >The dwarf (=Leland) says "She's my cousin." If you take the "she" at 
> >this moment to stand for Maddie, then Leland speaks truth, because 
> >Laura's cousin is also his cousin -- once removed.

No, Laura's cousin is his niece (tho' we don't know precisely whether
Maddie is related by blood to Leland or to Sarah).  Note that Maddie
calls Leland and Sarah "Uncle" and "Aunt".

"Cousin once removed" means you're one generation up or down the
family tree from a cousin.  Your cousins' children or your parents'
cousins are your first cousins once removed.


--
Janet SwisherInternet: swsh@midway.uchicago.edu
University of ChicagoPhone: (312) 702-7608
Academic and Public ComputingP-mail: 1155 E. 60th St. Chicago IL 60637, USA
"This whole world's wild at heart and weird on top."  -- Lula

Summar : 
Expires: 
References: <28569@usc> <4084@vela.acs.oakland.edu>
Sender: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Waterloo
Keywords: 

In article <4084@vela.acs.oakland.edu> rjohnson@vela.acs.oakland.edu (R o d Johnson) writes:
> >In article <28569@usc> marks@skat.usc.edu (Louise Marks) writes:
> >
Donna's look in Dec 1 episode:

> >She wasn't *that* unattractive.  In fact, I would say she isn't really
> >that *attractive*, usually.  Real people have up days and down days, I
> >guess. 
 
In the scene at the RR I thought at first that we were being introduced to
a new character, possibly Norma's mentally retarded dishwasher. She didn't
just look bad, she looked like someone else entirely.
> >
Her clothes are usually stylish, but I have never seen anything like the
get up she was wearing last week. And she looked so boney, poor  and plain.
Every episode they do her up differently. I remember in one scene a few
episodes back I thought she looked like Scarlet Ohara from Gone with the Wind.
 
.a.h.

In article <kbLEDpW00WAw0eQkZi@andrew.cmu.edu> ab3o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Allan Bourdius) writes:
>> >>6.  New theory on Dick:  How could he get Lucy pregnant if he's gay :-)
> >
> >Gay men produce semen just the same as heterosexual men, as far as I know.
> >I think Lucy probably knows whether or not she had sex with Dick...
 
Yes, most women have a good memory for such things. Besides, she described
the incident in an earlier episode, something about a display bed in
in Horne's Dept. Store (shades of 9 1/2 Weeks).
 
a.h.

In article <Zg5mT1w163w@zitt> joe [Joe Zitt] writes:

> >(and if you're planning on hassling me for considering my sleep more 
> >important than your "recovery", save your breath. I don't even know who
> >the hell you are, and I don't particularly care.)
> >
> >In my sleepiness, I apologized to you. I hereby retract the apology. 
> >Whoever you are, and whatever you are recovering from, I hope one of the 
> >steps cures your apparent rectal/cranial inversion. And I hope the Man From
> >Another Place shows up in your dreams tonight and tells you the plot of the
> >entire rest of the season.
> >
> >Joe Zitt...cs.utexas.edu!kvue!zitt!joe (512)450-1916


   I was annoyed when I first saw the thread about the recent twin peaks
episodes because I read this newsgroup for help in living daily life in
recovery and I don't consider discussing television portrayals of recovery
situations to be a part of daily living,but I didn't post anything in
protest because it is easy enough to hit the 'n' key or if it got to be
too much of a hastle,add these articles to my KILL file,but the above
article is an example of why I see these types of threads as a threat to
this forum.

This newsgroup is supposed to be a place where people can discuss
*recovery* and hopefully offer some suggestions or some hope to those
who are experiencing particular problems in their recovery.  It is not
an appropriate place to react in anger and resentment towards other
subscribers.  I am sorry that you had the misfortune of being awakened
by someone in anger,but this is not the appropriate place for retaliation!

We are here to help each other through recovery,not to character assassinate
each other and rip apart each others programs.  I will be adding this thread
to my KILL file,but I hope for the sake of those who continue to read this
thread,any future articles will take on a healthier tone.



-- Everywhere you go, -sher There you are. sher@umbc3.umbc.edu

In article <12331@milton.u.washington.edu> jespah@milton.u.washington.edu (Kathleen Hunt) writes:
> >From: alternat@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Ann Hodgins)
> >*There is a shot of Bob under the sprinklers shouting with arms outstretched.
> >*Then the head banging starts. I think it is Bob killing his host.
> >
> >By the way, BOB was shouting the "darkness of future past" speech.  Anyone
> >else get the impression that this isn't just a bit of poetry, but is a
> >potent chant that BOB *had* to say in order to leave the host?

No, I got the distinct feeling that Lynch had decided to have BOB
recite the poem sometime there in that hour, and he figured that the
scene in the jail cell would be the best place to put it.

It was too forced -- it felt like Mike knew he had to say it, and he
just wanted to get it over with conveniently.  I got no sense of
failure, or triumph, or wvil in it; he just shouted it.

Woulda been nice if BOB had recited a different speech after the poem
than he did in Cooper's dream.  "I will kill again!"  He did, after he
told Cooper that.  I don't think he killed Leland; I think Leland died
of his own overwhelming grief more than by bashing his head in.

::sigh:: Just another point against a thoroughly trite episode.  Lynch
drew it out for about twenty hours -- he expected to be able to pull
everything together satisfactorily in just one?  It was a nice try,
but it didn't work.

And what about the convenience store they lived above?

     << Brian >>

| Brian S. Kendig      \ Macintosh |   Engineering,   | bskendig             |
| Computer Engineering |\ Thought  |  USS Enterprise  | @phoenix.Princeton.EDU
| Princeton University |_\ Police  | -= NCC-1701-D =- | @PUCC.BITNET         |
"It's not that I don't have the work to *do* -- I don't do the work I *have*."

jbrindle@mdivax1.cup.hp.com:

> >Why would Truman leave Twin Peaks?  He's the Sheriff, he's from there, it's
> >his home.  Cooper, on the other hand, is the stranger in town.  He holds no
> >ties to the town and since the reason he was called in has been solved, he
> >should be the one leaving.

Let's not forget that there is still an unsolved Federal offence which occured
in Twin Peaks.  Namely, the assault with a deadly weapon upon an agent of
the Federal Bureau of Investigations.  Cooper could take a few days working
on that (and let's also not forget that he's only been in TP a fews days
so far anyway)

==============================================================================
|  Greg Anderson  |   hpcuhd!grega      |      grega@hpcuhd.HP.COM           |
==============================================================================
| "It isn't necessary to be rich and famous to be happy.  It's only          |
|  necessary to be rich." -- Alan Alda                                       |
==============================================================================

In article <1990Dec5.032408.9241@cbnewsk.att.com> pab1@cbnewsk.att.com (paul.a.bouchard) writes:
> >In article <4491@idunno.Princeton.EDU>, bskendig@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) writes:
>> >> ...  The whole
>> >> resolution to the case rested not on the deductive abilities of an FBI
>> >> agent, but instead on when he would remember one fact from one dream.
> >
> >I disagree!  First of all, Cooper NEVER relied solely on his "deductive
> >abilities".  Luck, intuition, and spirituality play as large a part in
> >the "solution" of the crime as his his ability to reason does.

In the first season, he very perceptively learned a _lot_ about the
town and the people in it -- but he never even suspected Leland, much
less bothered to make any inquiries into where Leland was on the night
of the murder.  Up until the most recent episode in the second season,
Cooper was meandering aimlessly, not doing deductive diddly, until he
found Laura's real diary and decided that Ben Horne was the killer.
Finally he decided that Ben wasn't the killer -- but even then he was
as clueless as ever to the actual identity of Laura's murderer,
despite all he had already established.

The bit about bringing Leland and Ben and Leo and company all into the
Roadhouse was _very_ contrived -- Lynch needed a way to reveal the
murderer to Cooper, and that was the easiest, most simpleton way.

My point is: sure, he used his deductive abilities, his luck, his
intuition, and his spirituality.  But his deductions led him nowhere,
and his intuition could only work with the facts which were revealed
to him.  If he had not remembered the dream right there and then, the
case would not have been resolved last weekend.  If the Powers that Be
had decided never to case Cooper to remember his dream, he might never
have caught on to the fact that Leland was doing it; he had no reason
to suspect Leland of anything.  (Now, maybe if Albert had gotten the
time of the murder correct, it might have given him sufficient cause
for suspicion, but what can you expect from a forensics expert who
gathered a team, flew cross-country from DC to Seattle, and performed
a full autopsy on a waterlogged body all between midnight and
morning?)

> >Remembering what Laura Palmer had told him in his dream did not provide the 
> >evidence he needed to arrest Leland, just the evidence he needed to lure
> >Leland/BOB to the police station.  It was the raging of BABBLING BOB
> >that provided the "legal" evidence Truman and Cooper needed to make an 
> >arrest.  In any case, the information Cooper takes from his dreams is
> >helpful only as a guide.  

They only analyzed Leland's blood after they had him in the jail cell,
I seem to remember (how did they manage that, anyway?).  If Leland had
been forced into the cell and then stood there confused and asked
politely to be let out, he probably could have brought a handsome
lawsuit against the police department.


"Gee -- we haven't done anything about gum, yet!"
"Let's bring back the giant!  Yeah, yeah!  The old man!"
"Major Briggs -- let's throw him in there, too!"
"Let's give Cooper back his ring!  Oh, we didn't reveal the owls to him
  yet?  Well, no time!  Give 'im back the ring!"

Grr.  And I spent _weeks_ painstakingly analyzing about _twenty hours_
worth of episodes, all for THIS?

Go back and do it the right way.

     << Brian >>

| Brian S. Kendig      \ Macintosh |   Engineering,   | bskendig             |
| Computer Engineering |\ Thought  |  USS Enterprise  | @phoenix.Princeton.EDU
| Princeton University |_\ Police  | -= NCC-1701-D =- | @PUCC.BITNET         |
"It's not that I don't have the work to *do* -- I don't do the work I *have*."

mok@pawl.rpi.edu (... Mok) writes:

> > In article <1990Dec3.153541.26013@cbnewsd.att.com> miata@cbnewsd.att.com (ste
>> > >In article <1990Nov30.202044.18718@Solbourne.COM>, gerber@Solbourne.COM (And
>>> > >> I'm going to be up in the Seattle area next weekend and was hoping to
>>> > >> drive up to Snoqualmie (sp?) Falls and see the various Twin Peaks
>>> > >> sights.  Could someone send me info/directions to the little-known
>>> > >> locations - the sheriff's office, the Double R Diner, etc.
>>> > >> 
>> > >*************
>> > >My wife and I will also be spending some time in the "Twin Peaks" area.
>> > >Our first wedding anniversary is January 1, 1991, and we decided that
>> > >we couldn't think of anywhere we'd better like to spend it than at the
>> > >Great Northern Hotel (the Salish Lodge, to those who reamin rooted in
>> > >the real world).
> > As for the rest: The scenery MUST be seen! The falls in particular are
> > incredible. The Salish Lodge *is* thre Great Northern (and just as
> > beautiful), but not as classy. 

Uh, ahem... according to a recent article in the Seattle P-I, the Salish 
Lodge was used only for external shots of the Great Northern. The nearby 
Kiana Lodge (actually, I'm not sure if it's so nearby - it's in Poulsbo) 
was used for internal shots of the Great Northern. So if you want to stay 
in the same room as ol' Coop, that's where you gotta go... also, the 
beach scene in the pilot (when Laura's body was found) was filmed there.

**************************************************************************
"Mr. BOB, you've killed Theresa Banks,   *                Richard Barrett
 Laura Palmer, Jacques Renault, and      *             18004 146th Ave NE
 Maddy Ferguson. What are you going to   *          Woodinville, WA 98072
 do next?"                               *                (206)487-1312
"I'm going to Disneyland!"               *hikaru%halcyon.uucp@seattleu.edu
**************************************************************************

fehr@ms.uky.edu (Jeffrey Davis):

> > A beadle at
> >ABC must have come to the conclusion that the tale of Laura Palmer's
> >murder was a millstone to be discarded rather than the anchor
> >to the show. From my perspective, they need NEVER have solved the
> >mystery. 

I agree completely.  Is the power of "Waiting for Godot" diminished by the
fact that "Godot" never arrives?

==============================================================================
|  Greg Anderson  |   hpcuhd!grega      |      grega@hpcuhd.HP.COM           |
==============================================================================
| "It isn't necessary to be rich and famous to be happy.  It's only          |
|  necessary to be rich." -- Alan Alda                                       |
==============================================================================

>> >>Hmmm. That sounds far too similar to Kyle Maclachlan's story, which is 
>> >>exactly the same, with the exception that Kyle got a starring role. 

This must be an urban legend (I can't spell apocrophyl).  Kyle M. was
performing at the definitely not-small venue of Ashland Shakespeare
Festival (I've seen the program) sometime before 1983.  It's not
likely that he was on a small stage after that, is it?

In article <1990Dec5.104407.1376@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> pasj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:

> >2. Cooper was humming "When I Take You Out To Missouri" at the same time 
> >Leland was singing it while driving all over the road with his golf bag....
[...]
> >
> >Stephanie & Ilana, posting via Priscilla.

Hmm, wasn't that "When I Take You Out to Missoula"? :-)

Actually, its "When I take you out in my surrey", you know, the one with
the fringe on top. I always knew having a mom who was in every local production
of Rogers and Hammerstein productions would pay off someday...


--
Barry Eynon
barry@playfair.stanford.edu

alternat@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Ann Hodgins) writes:

> > In article <16095@bfmny0.BFM.COM> tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM (Tom Neff) writes:
>> > >The moment that really made me smile: Major Briggs arriving on cue with
>> > >the Room Service Waiter.  I love the character of the Major and I get a
>> > >tremendous kick out of the strength Don Davis brings to him.  On some
>> > >level the Log Lady doesn't make much sense, but the Major is perfect at
>> > >all levels.  His utterly mysterious high-tech assignment ("Dad... what
>> > >do you DO?" yields, with perfectly gentle equanimity, "Son, that's
>> > >classified") somehow leaves him wide open to the world of spirit and
>> > >fate.  And he has visibly grown in two seasons, rather than merely
>> > >flopping around like some of the younger people.
>> > >
> > I'm afraid the Major will die soon - his dream seemed to be a forshadowing
> > of his own death. Hope not, I really like him, pompous and banal as he
> > is. He has warmth and I think he truly has wisdom too. For instance he
> > considered himself *privileged* to give the old waiter a ride, he
> > seemed to see it as a honour done to him by the old man, not vice versa.

Those of you who hate "diary-based theories" hit N now...



I agree that either Bobby, the Major (Don Davis - is this the same Don 
Davis that did the paintings in _Cosmos_?), or Bobby's mother will die 
soon. In the diary, Bobby shoots a guy point blank in the heart, and 
Laura later has a dream where the man comes back to life, and says to 
Bobby: "You had better watch yourself. Murder is just a way of shaking 
hands with Death, and saying `What's mine, is yours.' Eventually Death 
comes looking for you, or a friend, or a relative." (okay, not an exact 
quote, but I don't want to run upstairs and grab my copy) 
Dreams appear to have great accuracy in this show, so I wouldn't be 
surprised if this has some significance as well.

**************************************************************************
"Mr. BOB, you've killed Theresa Banks,   *                Richard Barrett
 Laura Palmer, Jacques Renault, and      *             18004 146th Ave NE
 Maddy Ferguson. What are you going to   *          Woodinville, WA 98072
 do next?"                               *                (206)487-1312
"I'm going to Disneyland!"               *hikaru%halcyon.uucp@seattleu.edu
**************************************************************************

   Myself, I thought that this was one of the best episodes we've seen 
this season. Hunter's "straightforward" (at least compared to Lynch's) 
style was an interesting change of pace. 
   I also thought it was a nice change to see Albert act like a human 
being for a change, and there was certainly an explanation for it - he 
wanted this problem solved as soon as possible, and he realized that his 
generally smartass attitude wasn't going to help a heck of a lot... 
   The first time I watched it, I thought Ray Wise's acting was great up 
until the point when BOB left him - after that it just seemed to be way 
overacted. Upon watching it a second time, it did seem to be a lot more 
realistic. It appeared to be genuine remorse and agony - just like BOB 
had said it would be. 
   I have yet to understand what all the confusion is about where BOB is 
- he told us where he was goin, remember? "Soon, I will pull that ripcord 
- and then it'll be time to shove off to Buffalo!" (oops, not goin, 
GOING- sorry) As for that last scene of the owl, I interpreted it as BOB 
rushing off to meet with his owl host.
   Is it just me, or does BOB look different from episode to episode? The 
first time we see him, he just looks like a normal, long haired blonde 
guy wearing a headband. The next time, His hair is a bit shorter, he's 
wearing different clothes, he has no headband, and his face looks like 
it's a different shape. When we see him in Ronette's vision, he's wearing 
the jean jacket and black turtleneck in one part, the denim vest w/o 
shirt in another part. His hair isn't as short, or as scraggly. Next, he 
looks more like he does no]G+ow, except he is wes wearing the jacket and 
turtleneck, and his hair is a bit longer. And then after that, we always 
see him with scraggly blond (no, it is NOT grey) long hair, needs a shave 
and a bath, and is wearing the jean jacket and black turtleneck. I could 
swear that the actor playing him in the first season is different than 
the actor playing him in second season. I know they're the same guy 
(Frank Silva) but still... 
   Myself, I liked the post-mortem at the end. Everybody appears to be in 
some amount of shock from the previous evening's events, and they are 
still turning what happened over in their minds. Such a scene makes 
perfect sense to me... 
   Complaints: Cooper still has no f???in' idea what "The owls are not 
what they seem" means, so why does get his ring back? 
   
   Oh, BTW, BOB obviously knew he made a mistake (about the bus station 
and Maddy) , which is why he looked so pissed off when we saw him. Either 
that, or he has very weak teeth and couldn't chew the gum very well. :>
   Memorable quotes: "Throughout the course of this investigation, I have 
used beurau (sp) guidelines, straight detective work, Tibetan method." 
   "Did you kill Laura Palmer?" "OOOH! OOO OOOH! OOOOH! OOOH! That's a 
yes." "Did you kill Madeleine Ferguson?" "What do you think?" "I'm asking 
you." "What do you think?" "That's the question." "Well, gee, gee whiz, I 
guess I maybe kinda sorta might've did, I have this thing for knives - 
JUST LIKE THAT TIME IN PITTSBURGH, HUH COOPER?" 
   Did anybody catch Leland saying "May we have this dance?" to Donna?
   On Mrs. Tremond and Pierre: You got me. Laura saw them as well, and 
she appeared to have some familiarity with Pierre in the diary, so I 
dunno...

**************************************************************************
"Mr. BOB, you've killed Theresa Banks,   *                Richard Barrett
 Laura Palmer, Jacques Renault, and      *             18004 146th Ave NE
 Maddy Ferguson. What are you going to   *          Woodinville, WA 98072
 do next?"                               *                (206)487-1312
"I'm going to Disneyland!"               *hikaru%halcyon.uucp@seattleu.edu
**************************************************************************

In article <8bLGZCG00juk9TT1Ag@cs.cmu.edu> Jon.Webb@CS.CMU.EDU writes:
> >
> >This illustrates how difficult it is for Bob to change hosts -- he can
> >do so only on the death of his host -- and also the association of the

I think it's fairly clear that BOB left Leland before his death. I am
not certain whether a) BOB made Leland bash his head (my first theory)
or b) BOB's leaving - and Leland's subsequent realization of what he
had done - caused Leland to commit suicide (my current theory). But
by the time they got in there, BOB was gone.
-- c2h5oh@ucscb.ucsc.edu | "Have you ever seen a grown man in a beard and | business attire hopping, skipping and jumping in the | Port Authority terminal? It looks damned stupid."

One inconsistency in the clues to Maddie's murderer has me puzzled...
her body was found with white fox hairs underneath her fingernails.
Now it was shown that Ben Horne has a stuffed, white fox in his office
when Truman et al. were looking for clues to connect Ben with her
murder, but since we know it wasn't Ben, how do you explain the hairs?
Was Maddie in his office earlier that evening?  Anyone care to comment?

Sue

Lots of agreement with Tom here.

In article <16095@bfmny0.BFM.COM>, tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM (Tom Neff) writes...

} I felt disappointed at the breakneck, so-the-butler-knew-all-along kind
} of 'wrapup' shoveled at us.

That was my feeling, too. I liked the resolution they gave us, but I have
to agree with some of the other comments herein that the pacing sucked.

} But let's give Ray Wise a standing O for his work these two seasons!
} He had a tough job and turned in one of the more memorable sustained
} performances in years.

Yes!  I've seen him in this film and that film, but he never made much of
an impression. Here he did an amazing job.

} The moment that really made me smile: Major Briggs arriving on cue with
} the Room Service Waiter.

Yes again!  It gave a feeling that everything going on was a Cosmic Play
being orchestrated by a Cosmic Director. Keyed right into the elements
of fatalism that seemed to be present.

} I love the character of the Major and I get a tremendous kick out of
} the strength Don Davis brings to him. On some level the Log Lady doesn't
} make much sense, but the Major is perfect at all levels.

The thing *I* like about him is his unshaking matter-of-fact attitude
towards the mysteries of life. The downside is that he's a person without
imagination, but the trade-off is that he accepts things as they are,
keeps an open mind, and refuses to be judgmental. As a career military
man, he's the type who believes that his role in life is to follow orders
without question, and he apparently sees his part in these proceedings
as just orders from a "higher authority".

} If that spoiler about Cooper and Truman saying goodbye is true, and if
} we sensibly assume MacLachlan outlasts Ontkean, then I'm not too shocked.
} Truman's importance in TWIN PEAKS has seldom been much more than symbolic
} from the word go; lately he has dwindled to near invisibility. Guess
} they've been writing him out gracefully. It's kind of a shame; I'll
} miss his face. He was wasted as a foil for Cooper's stoic Aquarianisms;
} I hope he gets lots of good work now.

I think you're reading too much into this. It's obvious from previous
tv guide entries that Lynch/Frost is providing subtlely humorous synopses
to the press. Recall how misleading it was a few weeks ago when they said
"James and Donna miss Maddie's leaving Twin Peaks".  Even the coming
attractions at the end of each episode are deceptive!

In fact, TV GUIDE's entry says that Cooper is ready to depart TP when a
fellow agent (played by Peggy Lipton's MOD SQUAD partner Clarence
Williams) arrives with some information for him.

} Who shot Cooper? Does Cooper care? Do we just dump that one on Leland
} for grins, or is there someone else with a motive?

I'll be very disappointed if they pin it on Leland -- that would be the
equivalent of sweeping the problem under the rug. Since Leland said
nothing in his dying moments about remembering that he shot Cooper, we
should assume that he never did it (despite the fact that he was *my*
prime suspect). The same goes for Jacoby's assault.

-- "I can't die yet. I haven't seen THE JOLSON STORY." --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA) UUCP: ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian ARPA: boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM

In article <4520@idunno.Princeton.EDU> bskendig@der.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) writes:
> >[...]
> >"Gee -- we haven't done anything about gum, yet!"
> >"Let's bring back the giant!  Yeah, yeah!  The old man!"
> >"Major Briggs -- let's throw him in there, too!"
> >"Let's give Cooper back his ring!  Oh, we didn't reveal the owls to him
> >  yet?  Well, no time!  Give 'im back the ring!"
> >
> >Grr.  And I spent _weeks_ painstakingly analyzing about _twenty hours_
> >worth of episodes, all for THIS?

I feel the same way.  One thing about the owls though - I got the
impression that the Major's computer printout was the fulfillment
of the Giant's "owls are not what they seem" prediction.

-- Scott Amspoker | Basis International, Albuquerque, NM | "I'm going out for a sandwich" (505) 345-5232 | - Ben unmvax.cs.unm.edu!bbx!bbxsda!scott |

In article <1826@beguine.UUCP>, George.Harris@samba.acs.unc.edu (George Harris) writes...

} The upshot of this is, theories which derive verification from "The
} Secret Diary of Laura Palmer" may be thereby flawed. I think for
} theorizing, we should stick to what has been revealed on the show.

I somewhat agree, but not too much. There have been a number of (mostly
minor) inconsistencies between the Store-Bought Diary (SBD) and the show,
but given the excerpts as read in the show, it's evident that Lynch/Frost
want us to believe that the SBD is the real magilla.

My own method is to accept anything from the SBD as canonical *unless
contradicted by the broadcast episodes*. In the event of such a conflict,
the show takes precedence.

-- "I can't die yet. I haven't seen THE JOLSON STORY." --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA) UUCP: ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian ARPA: boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM

In article <00940B9A.B5275520@ELM.CIRCA.UFL.EDU>, statman@oak.circa.ufl.edu (Charles D. Kincaid) writes...
> >statman@stat.ufl.edu  has this footter:


> > 
> >Like, BOB, he's so cool, like, if you put his hair in a tail and, like,
> >he smiled, you know, and maybe was a little younger and cuter then I 
> >could, like, go for him, you know?
> > 
> >Don't worry.  I shot her. :-)


By far the funniest quote I have seen in the three weeks I have been
following this board.  I take my hat off to you.
> >Daniel

blk@mitre.org (Brian L. Kahn) writes:

> >The giant said he would give the ring back after his three statements
> >were shown to be true.  What is there in this episode that satisfied
> >this condition?  I don't see how Cooper has any notion of why the owls
> >are not what they seem.

Didn't you see the episode where Major Briggs showed Cooper the nifty
little printout with the words "/THE/OWLS/ARE/NOT/WHAT/THEY/SEEM/"
written on it?  This was the event to which the giant was referring.
We may not know what the statement MEANS, but then again the giant
never said Cooper would.  He only said there were going to be three
things that Cooper would "find to be true."

--
bvickers@ics.uci.edu |       "We cannot decide whether that which
brett@ucippro.bitnet |        we call truth is really truth or
_____________________|        whether it merely appears that way
                              to us."      - Heinrich von Kleist

In article <31684@muvms3.bitnet>, tim@muvms3.bitnet (Tim Calvert) writes...
[>      / \ 
> >        |
> >On[stuff deleted] another subject, my recollection of the BOB leaves Leland event was
> >that BOB was still there when the sprinklers went on. At least it seemed
> >to me that Leland was still acting like BOB (snarling and screaming), and
> >remember it was just before the sprinklers came on that Cooper, et al, out
> >in the corridor heard Leland/BOB reciting (make that shouting) the "Fire 
> >walk with me" poem from inside the cell. And when the sprinklers came on,
> >Leland looked up at them snarled, grinned evilly, howled a little and then
> >"headed" for the door. :-) At least, that's how my frequently-faulty memory
> >recalls it. Anyone agree?
> > 
> >Tim

I definitley agree with tim that BOB was still in Leland when the sprinklers
went on.  BOB himself in his smiling glory was standing by the chair with his
face tuned up into the "rain" from the sprinklers.  I haven't checked the
tape yet, but this is what I recall from the episode.
I join those who are of the opinion that BOB bashed Leland's head against the
door, either to inflict pain and death on L, or else as a means of escaping
his host.
> >Daniel

From ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!slg20427 Thu Dec 6 02:15:58 CST 1990

Spoilers follow!


like a lot of scenes at the police station. A federal agent (probably) tells
Cooper that he is being suspended from the FBI. This character was actually

black! A first for TP! Also, I think it showed two people fighting at what I
think looks like Leland's wake. I think it's Ed who is flying through the air
(probably thrown by Nadine!). And oh yeah, Jean Renault is back.....
I can't wait.

Did anyone catch the Flash last week? Jacques Renault was on. He
played a gun shop worker I think. One of his lines was something like, "If
it ain't illegal, it ain't fun." This is the third TP character to appear
on the Flash. So far we have Leo Johnson, Dick Tremayne, and Jacques.
I can't wait for more.

-The Disco Strangler

        So, isn't the obvious reason Sarah Palmer sees a white "horse" as she
crawls down the stairs is because she's trying to be a "heroine" and save
Maddie?  :-)
        Anyway, haven't seen the theory that Wyndham Earle is Norma's mom
posted here yet.  She certainly critiques food a lot.  First the mashed
potatoes at the Diner, then the salmon at the Great Northern, and then the
Diner omelette.  I know mom's are tough, but still.

I vote with the obvious "Leo gets the bird" theory of where Bob goes
next.  And I thought of it all by myself.  Didn't have to read the dozens of
articles by people who already thought of it.  So make sure to credit me when
you mention the theory, unless it turns out to be wrong.  And there will be an
earthquake Dec. 7th at 9:57 PM, dropping California into the ocean.  You read
it here first.

Eric Pettersen
UCSF Computer Graphics Lab
pett@cgl.ucsf.edu

P.S.  So if Cooper *is* a Time Lord, maybe he finally figures everything out
when he's as old as he was in his dream, goes back to his home planet
in the golf bag tardis, and beams himself hints like
"023782345893497THE OWLS ARE NOT WHAT THEY SEEM0937839193820109",
helpful visions, the phone numbers of hot babes, etc.

In article <1990Dec6.090954.15746@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, slg20427@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Special Agent Cooper) writes...

} A federal agent (probably) tells Cooper that he is being suspended from
} the FBI. This character was actually black!

And happens to be played by Clarence Williams, one of Peggy Lipton's
co-stars from THE MOD SQUAD. Yet another blast from the past.

-- "I can't die yet. I haven't seen THE JOLSON STORY." --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA) UUCP: ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian ARPA: boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM

Argh!  Apparently the Norma's-mom-is-famous-restaurant-critic theory is
nothing new.  Sorry about that.  Luckily I got the restaurant critic's name
wrong in my last post and wound up hypothesizing that Norma's mother was
Cooper's lunatic ex-partner.  Interesting theory.  Maybe she's a Time Lord, too.

Eric Pettersen
UCSF Computer Graphics Lab
pett@cgl.ucsf.edu

/ hpopd:alt.tv.twin-peaks / cbullin@athena.mit.edu (Carrie L Bullington) /  5:32 pm  Dec  5, 1990 /

> > ... seeing the director of Die Hard-2).  In the "Rolling
> > Stone" article featuring Lara, Sherilyn, and Madchen,

Which issue of "Rolling Stone" was this?

Richard.
"I can't die yet, I haven't read Rolling Stone."

/ hpopd:alt.tv.twin-peaks / dawson@epps.kodak.com (Keith Dawson) /  6:49 pm  Dec  5, 1990 /

> > The dwarf (=Leland) says "She's my cousin." If you take the "she" at 
> > this moment to stand for Maddie, then Leland speaks truth, because 
> > Laura's cousin is also his cousin -- once removed.

"Cousin", even "once removed", implies a peer relationship to me. Surely Leland
is/was of a different generation to Maddie?

Richard.
"I can't die yet, I haven't mastered genealogy."

/ hpopd:alt.tv.twin-peaks / broehl@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Bernie Roehl) /  7:10 pm  Dec  5, 1990 /

> > Yes.  Notice that he appeared to both Leland and Laura when they were young
> > and innocent; this may mean that Bob can't easily enter mature adults unless
> > said adults are *very* willing participants.  (Note that this runs parallel
> > to the child-abuse idea people keep bringing up).

Perhaps it's because children are prepared to believe that BOB is real.

Reminds me of the New Testament quote to the effect that "only those who accept
me as a child will enter the Kingdom of Heaven."

Richard.
"I can't die yet, I don't believe in reincarnation."

I got the impression that perhaps Albert wasn't originally in this episode.
Maybe his character was originally Gordon Cole but Lynch was unavailable
(or piqued that the script was soooo bad). It did seem to be a rushed,
hurry-up-and-get-it-over-with, disappointing type of story. I thought
first it was cleverly set up with the water sprinklers alluded to from
the first episode (after the pilot), but there are far too many holes!

Leland/the dwarf dancing: but far closer is the dancing done by Audrey!
Water sprinkler driving out the devil BOB: as if he could keep otherwise
keep dry in the Pacific Northwest!
Gum back into style: we had never seen Leland chew gum before, it always
seemed to be Ben who masticated compulsively.


Ah, well, any thoughts on what triggered the fire alarm/sprinklers?? I see
three candidates:
1) Dick with his long cigarette holder
2) BOB with his FIRE WALK WITH ME
3) Albert lighting up in the hallway with a great big "NO SMOKING" sign
on the wall (was he ever seen smoking before?)

Also remember that the fire alarm in the hospital went off when Leland
(or was it BOB?) snuffed out Jacques.

In article <11280@pt.cs.cmu.edu>, kck@g.gp.cs.cmu.edu (Karl Kluge) says:

> >What, then, are we to make of the dwarf saying that Laura was
> >his cousin if the dwarf was supposed to be Leland? It seemed more
> >retrofitting than anything else. Also, given that there wasn't much of

Maybe the dwarf was really Maddy.  Just because the sex was different
does not necessarily mean this is not so.  The dwarf said both he
and the Laura look alike where from the same place - heaven ?  It
was Maddy's death that motivated everyone,including Albert, to
work harder at finding the killer.  I think Albert's change in personality
may have been due to his very real disgust at yet another murder
and their failure at solving the crime.  Albert obviously prides
himself at his ability to find solutions quickly and the fact
he was unable to solve this one bothered him.  I think Albert also
knew that conventional methods had failed at catching this killer
and hence the need for magic.  This could explain why Cooper
did not resort to the traditional method of arresting Leland even
though he had evidence.  Remember Truman had a hard time believing
any of this to be true and Cooper had to show BOB he was on to him
to force a confession.

Or it simply could have been a take off on the old fashioned
denouncements in mysteries.  :>)

> >a case against Ben if his blood didn't match the blood on the towel
> >and note, why the hell was he so concerned about getting Catherine's
> >testimony?

Ben was in no position to know whether his blood did or did not
match the blood on the towel.  As far as he was concerned he was
still the prime supsect.




LINDA

"Agent Cooper, the problems of our entire society are of a sexual nature"

> > Cooper was meandering aimlessly, not doing deductive diddly, until he
> > found Laura's real diary and decided that Ben Horne was the killer.
.-.
|A|rrrgh!  For the nth time, they brought Ben Horne in for
`-' questioning, *not* because they decided he was the killer.

/F356/<_Jym_Dyer_>/B893/A972/F83/H25/N729/F387/G298/O37/X235/Q734/
/X243/K822/L262/B23/THE/OWLS/ARE/NOT/WHAT/THEY/SEEM/B383/L947/M84/
/M867/B586/K389/O98/AND/I/LIKE/WHALES/N37/B88/L867/P213/N297/B957/
/W482/jym@mica.berkeley.edu/I55/K387/P987/R80/Z903/Y983/O092/C381/

> > Gum back into style: we had never seen Leland chew gum before,
> > it always seemed to be Ben who masticated compulsively.
.-.
|A|ctually, having Sen~or Drool Cup say that sentence at that time
`-' was very effective.  While I don't like the way everything was
    rushed in the show, having the answer (such as it is) to that
    clue pop up, unexpectedly, at that time, was a nice touch.

/F356/<_Jym_Dyer_>/B893/A972/F83/H25/N729/F387/G298/O37/X235/Q734/
/X243/K822/L262/B23/THE/OWLS/ARE/NOT/WHAT/THEY/SEEM/B383/L947/M84/
/M867/B586/K389/O98/AND/I/LIKE/WHALES/N37/B88/L867/P213/N297/B957/
/W482/jym@mica.berkeley.edu/I55/K387/P987/R80/Z903/Y983/O092/C381/

.-.
|I| wonder if he used to work at the stables where Laura kept
`-' her horse . . .

/F356/<_Jym_Dyer_>/B893/A972/F83/H25/N729/F387/G298/O37/X235/Q734/
/X243/K822/L262/B23/THE/OWLS/ARE/NOT/WHAT/THEY/SEEM/B383/L947/M84/
/M867/B586/K389/O98/AND/I/LIKE/WHALES/N37/B88/L867/P213/N297/B957/
/W482/jym@mica.berkeley.edu/I55/K387/P987/R80/Z903/Y983/O092/C381/

> > Were any other comic book fans out there intensely reminded of
> > Swamp Thing #27 by the end of the 12/1 episode?
.-.
|I|t was the first thing I thought of.  But then I noticed that
`-' the car looked junked, not wrecked, and there wasn't anybody
    bleeding to death at the wheel, and there wasn't a Burma
    Shave sign anywhere near it.

"I guess in the end, you're as
good a person as you think you
are . . ." (43)

/F356/<_Jym_Dyer_>/B893/A972/F83/H25/N729/F387/G298/O37/X235/Q734/
/X243/K822/L262/B23/THE/OWLS/ARE/NOT/WHAT/THEY/SEEM/B383/L947/M84/
/M867/B586/K389/O98/AND/I/LIKE/WHALES/N37/B88/L867/P213/N297/B957/
/W482/jym@mica.berkeley.edu/I55/K387/P987/R80/Z903/Y983/O092/C381/

In the 12/1 episode, a character named Mr. Zipper is listed in the closing
credits. Good name, but who is he? The guy that installed the sprinklers?

   I posted ``THAT WASN'T ALBERT'' last sunday, so I feel I have proprietary
rights on this theory (not that anyone else wants it...)

   Somebody raised the issue of whether Albert smoked before.  I would love
to use this as evidence.  Unfortunately, he takes out a cigarette (if not
actually smoking) when he first arrives (``I can hear perfectly well'')

   Good point.  In real life, people die of head injuries all the time in
police stations.  This doesn't make Amnesty International happy.

People have been arguing about the owls (good vs. evil) for some time.  I feel
the owls are good.  When the Log Lady told Cooper "There are owls gathering in
the Road House." there was no evidence of anything evil there (unless the giant
 is really evil).

Is it possible that some of the characters on the show represent different spir
it-types?  If so, does the Major represent the eagle or a falcon?  Does Hawk re
present the Indian influences in the area?  Or are they all bird-brains?

What was the Major doing in the last scene from the 12/1/90 episode?  Why was h
e there?

Does anyone know where or what other works Angelo Badalamenti has composed?

In article <carey.660419266@m.cs.uiuc.edu>, carey@cs.uiuc.edu 
(John Carey) writes:
> >It disturbed me that they glossed over the resolution of Maddy's murder
> >so quickly.  Mostly, the obvious resemblance was barely mentioned.
> >
> >Now, I seem to remember a discussion once of themes involving twins
> >and look-alikes, and one of the variations was where the twins were
> >identical but nobody seemed to recognize the resemblance.
> >
> >can anyone think of such a movie, book, TV show, where this plot
> >device is used?
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >John Carey
> >University of Illinois
> >Dept. of Computer Science
> >carey@a.cs.uiuc.edu {uu-net,pur-ee,convex,...}!uiucdcs!carey

The high-quality, disturbing, thought-provoking, (etc.) play
Equus uses the theme of twins a lot (e.g. "uu" in the title).  I highly 
recommend seeing or at least reading the play and maybe prior doing some 
brief research into the psychological aspects.

I like the analogy with the Salvador Dali painting.  

charles d. kincaid
statman@stat.ufl.edu

Faster than convergence in probability, more powerful than the
Central Limit Theorem, able to leap tall histograms in a single bound; 
Look up in the sky. It's a bird!  It's a plane!  No, it's  STATMAN!!

In article <90339.231616PMK@psuvm.psu.edu>, <PMK@psuvm.psu.edu> says:
> >
> >One inconsistency in the clues to Maddie's murderer has me puzzled...
> >her body was found with white fox hairs underneath her fingernails.
> >Now it was shown that Ben Horne has a stuffed, white fox in his office
> >when Truman et al. were looking for clues to connect Ben with her
> >murder, but since we know it wasn't Ben, how do you explain the hairs?
> >Was Maddie in his office earlier that evening?  Anyone care to comment?
> >
> >Sue

The day (episode) before Ben was arrested, he and Leland were in his office
having a discussion.  Leland was sitting on the couch in front of the fox.
He turned around, took a piece of fur off the fox, and stuck it in his
pocket.  I assume that Maddie got it under her fingernails when she was
struggling with Leland.

[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[
Kit Aikin  KJA102@PSUVM.PSU.EDU      [
"You're a mean one, Mr. Grinch"      [
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[

For the person who wanted a copy of Jacobi's meditation
exercise, I am posting it on rec.tv and alt.tv also.
 
"You are standing on a smooth green carpet of grass.
The ball is 15 feet from the hole.
 
Beyond the green   
two pristine white sand traps and a lily-filled pond 
yawn out towards the emerald fairway
the hole seems to slowly drift away 
across the green
towards the pond 
carried by the summer wind.
 
The green grows larger and larger
the green engulfs you, envelops you 
in a soft blanket of peace.
 
You stroke the ball, it drifts towards the hole and gently drops
into its centre.
 
Do you hear me, Dr. Jacobi?

a.h.

I've watched this episode 3 times. Leland's hair did not appear to
change colors.  It was just in shadow.

jwk

-- John Kupec, Systems Manager Agouron Pharmaceuticals, Inc. La Jolla, CA (619) 535-5540 jwk@scripps.edu or uunet!agouron!kupec

In article <V1ZTTK5@cs.swarthmore.edu> dup94@campus.swarthmore.edu (Daniel Pedersen - Keren's Daddy) writes:
> >Speaking of lawsuits, Leland's constitutional rights were being demolished in
> >the scene where he is shoved into the cell and questioned - unless during the
> >blackout between the two scenes someone had read him his rights and obtained
> >a signed waiver from him, declining his right to an attorney.

We saw Truman telling Leland about his right to an attorney etc.

-- Scott Amspoker | Basis International, Albuquerque, NM | "I'm going out for a sandwich" (505) 345-5232 | - Ben unmvax.cs.unm.edu!bbx!bbxsda!scott |

In article <1990Dec6.090954.15746@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> slg20427@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Special Agent Cooper) writes:
> >I think it's Ed who is flying through the air (probably thrown by Nadine!).

It looked like Leo to me, but this makes more sense.

                           :: Jeff Makey

Department of Tautological Pleonasms and Superfluous Redundancies Department
    Disclaimer: I am just a guest of Logicon.
    Domain: Makey@Logicon.COM    UUCP: ucsd!snoopy!Makey

In article <4520@idunno.Princeton.EDU> bskendig@der.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) writes:
> >"Let's give Cooper back his ring!  Oh, we didn't reveal the owls to him
> >  yet?  Well, no time!  Give 'im back the ring!"
> >

Several others have brought this up as well.  But Cooper could get his
ring back when he found the three clues to be true.  One of them was
"the owls are not what they seem".  It didn't say he had to find
out WHY, it just said he had to find that they were not what they seem.
He knew this, from Major Briggs printout of the satellite reception
and from Margaret saying "There are owls in the roadhouse tonight"
and Cooper realizing that this was a foreboding.

In article <5070@atexnet.UUCP> dawson@epps.kodak.com (Keith Dawson) writes:
> >The dwarf (=Leland) says "She's my cousin." If you take the "she" at 
> >this moment to stand for Maddie, then Leland speaks truth, because 
> >Laura's cousin is also his cousin -- once removed.

And now quite *completely* removed!
-- Bernie Roehl, University of Waterloo Electrical Engineering Dept Mail: broehl@watserv1.waterloo.edu OR broehl@watserv1.UWaterloo.ca BangPath: {allegra,decvax,utzoo,clyde}!watmath!watserv1!broehl Voice: (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]

I think that Albert has a very decent and simple side to his
character that comes through in the final scene of last week's
episode. But I was irritated by the scene anyway because I could
not see why, after keeping up his cool facade for so long, Albert
would suddenly show his other side when Maddy is found.  After all,
Albert has dealt with many violent deaths without showing his inner
emotions. He was quite cool about Laura.  There is no logical reason
why another body of another girl unknown to him personally would 
cause him to break down so completely. 
 
a.h.

> >And did it sound like 'FUTURES past' this time to anyone else?

Yes! Which was it that was said in the original OAM dream sequence? Can anyone
verify?

In article <31684@muvms3.bitnet> tim@muvms3.bitnet (Tim Calvert) writes:
> >
> >So these TV listings seem to me to be "pink herrings" in that they don't
> >necessarily mean what they say.

Perhaps the TV listings are owls...

       "The TV listings are not as they seem"

timo
    --
-- -- Timo Bruck | My fish, were it still AppleLink: Timo | alive, would share my Internet: timo@apple.com | opinions, but I doubt UUCP: {amdcad,decwrl,hoptoad,nsc,sun}!apple!timo | anyone else (even Eve Phone: 415/327-9729 | Apple) would.

alternat@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Ann Hodgins) writes:

> >Various references in the last episode made me wonder about
> >the religious mythology associated with the fall of Satan.
> >The cover of Salman Rushdie's Satanic Verses shows an image
> >of two men falling to earth together, head to toe. 
> > 
> >This image is not american but it is not unfamiliar. Does anyone
> >out there know more about it? Does that image represent Satan
> >and if so, why are there two?
> > 
> >a.h.

One theory that has been presented is that the names of MIKE and BOB are   
based on religious mythology.  J.R.R. Tolkein used a similar tale in The
Silmarillion.  The gist is that the Personification of Darkness was at
one point the mightiest servant of Light, who, through pride, fell from
his exalted status.  In Tolkein, Melkor was the most Exalted of all the
Vala, yet his pride caused his fall from the halls of the Valar.  Similarly,
Lucifer was the mightiest of the angels, but his pride caused his fall,
and he was cast from heaven by the archangel Michael.  The name MIKE
is theorized to possibly be the archangel, where as BOB is a bastardization
of Beelzebub.

Maybe.


-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sanjiv Sarwate EMAIL: sarwate@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu "But what is truth? Is truth unchanging law? We both have truths. Are mine the same as yours?" - Pontius Pilate to Jesus Christ, from Jesus Christ Superstar

In article <JYM.90Dec6092641@remarque.berkeley.edu> jym@berkeley.edu (Jym Dyer) writes:
> >.-.
> >|A|ctually, having Sen~or Drool Cup say that sentence at that time
> >`-' was very effective.  While I don't like the way everything was
> >    rushed in the show, having the answer (such as it is) to that
> >    clue pop up, unexpectedly, at that time, was a nice touch.

All of the repeated dialogue was effective. It felt like we had come full
circle arund the circumference of a golden ring. As Senor Drool Cup, The
World's Most Decrepit Room Service Waiter said the line so did I. I also
chanted along with BOB. The reappearance of these lines as the ring was
closed was riveting.

The Tibetan Monks are not what they seem.
-- _ _ _ As I patrol the valey of Shadowless Death, I will fear / ) ) ) / Evil for I am but Mortal and mortals can only die. / / / __/_> / ( (_/(_) \ Eat a pop-tart for Jesus --><-- mok@pawl.rpi.edu

OK, so where is everybody discussing last Saturday's episode, and why
wasn't I invited?  I didn't see an announcement, but the traffic on
a.t.tp has really dried up.

Jeff McDougall
uunet!microsoft!jeffmcd

c2h5oh@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Idealistic Bibliomystic) writes:


> >In article <8bLGZCG00juk9TT1Ag@cs.cmu.edu> Jon.Webb@CS.CMU.EDU writes:
>> >>
>> >>This illustrates how difficult it is for Bob to change hosts -- he can
>> >>do so only on the death of his host -- and also the association of the

> >I think it's fairly clear that BOB left Leland before his death. I am
> >not certain whether a) BOB made Leland bash his head (my first theory)
> >or b) BOB's leaving - and Leland's subsequent realization of what he
> >had done - caused Leland to commit suicide (my current theory). But
> >by the time they got in there, BOB was gone.
> >-- 

> >c2h5oh@ucscb.ucsc.edu | "Have you ever seen a grown man in a beard and
> >                      | business attire hopping, skipping and jumping in the
> >                      | Port Authority terminal?  It looks damned stupid."

It takes a lot of effort to bash your own head into the wall hard enough to
kill yourself.  I think that BOB caused Leland to do it.  Figure this way,
the next logical step for Cooper would be to bring MIKE into the cell, and
BOB would be up the proverbial creek without the provervial paddle.


-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sanjiv Sarwate EMAIL: sarwate@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu "But what is truth? Is truth unchanging law? We both have truths. Are mine the same as yours?" - Pontius Pilate to Jesus Christ, from Jesus Christ Superstar

In article <1990Dec5.215925.12816@midway.uchicago.edu> swsh@ellis.uchicago.edu (Janet M. Swisher) writes:
> >In article <5070@atexnet.UUCP> dawson@epps.kodak.com (Keith Dawson) writes:
> >
>> >>The dwarf (=Leland) says "She's my cousin." If you take the "she" at 
>> >>this moment to stand for Maddie, then Leland speaks truth, because 
>> >>Laura's cousin is also his cousin -- once removed.
> >
> >No, Laura's cousin is his niece.
> >"Cousin once removed" means you're one generation up or down the
> >family tree from a cousin.  Your cousins' children or your parents'
> >cousins are your first cousins once removed.

Wait- your parents' cousins are your _second_ cousins once removed.
(Your parents' cousins' children are your second cousins; their parents, there-
fore, are your second cousins once removed.) 

Except- to your parents' cousins, you are their cousin's child, so _you_ are
_their_ first cousin once removed. Unless I'm missing something here, this can't
be a reciprocal relationship.

Thus, while _Leland_ would technically (but not in normal usage) be Maddie's 
first cousin once removed, Maddie would be _Leland's_ sibling or sibling-in-law
once removed- i.e., his niece and nothing else.

If I have this backwards, please e-mail me (if you really think it's important)-
don't flame! (Remember, only _you_ can prevent flame wars!)

In article <1443@bbxsda.UUCP>, scott@bbxsda.UUCP (Scott Amspoker) writes...
> >In article <4520@idunno.Princeton.EDU> bskendig@der.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) writes:
>> >>[...]
>> >>"Let's give Cooper back his ring!  Oh, we didn't reveal the owls to him
>> >>  yet?  Well, no time!  Give 'im back the ring!"
>> >>
>> >>Grr.  And I spent _weeks_ painstakingly analyzing about _twenty hours_
>> >>worth of episodes, all for THIS?
> > 
> >I feel the same way.  One thing about the owls though - I got the
> >impression that the Major's computer printout was the fulfillment
> >of the Giant's "owls are not what they seem" prediction.
> >

Simply have the phrase "The owls are not what they seem" is not the same as
having it be true.  If I remember correctly, the giant told Cooper he would get
his ring back when he found "these things to be true."  In my book, the Major's
printout doesn't cut it.

In fact, I interpreted the Major's printout as indicating that he had somehow
stumbled onto the Giant's communications medium, and actually intercepted the
message to/from the Giant.  This was reinforced by the fact that the Major was
the one to bring Senor Drool Cup to the Roadhouse.  There's some kind of
connection between the Major and the Giant.

I agree that the 12/1 episode seemed in a hurry to wrap things up.  My
impression was that Lynch/Frost gave in to pressure from ABC, from viewers, or
whatever to start giving some answers.  Also, many of the things were simply
repeated, and not explained.  We still don't know what the gum is about, or who
the Man From Another Place is.

-pd

In article <90339.231616PMK@psuvm.psu.edu>, <PMK@psuvm.psu.edu> says:
> >
> >One inconsistency in the clues to Maddie's murderer has me puzzled...
> >her body was found with white fox hairs underneath her fingernails.
> >Now it was shown that Ben Horne has a stuffed, white fox in his office
> >when Truman et al. were looking for clues to connect Ben with her
> >murder, but since we know it wasn't Ben, how do you explain the hairs?
> >Was Maddie in his office earlier that evening?  Anyone care to comment?
> >
> >Sue
One explanation could be that Leland pulled some of the hair from this fox and
put it into his pocket in one of the scenes earlier in the season.  This still
doesn't explain *HOW* this got underneath Maddie's fingernails, but I'm sure
that there is a connection.
---


WENDY C. WHITE              "TODAY, I HAD A PREMONITION THAT I WOULD
THE AMERICAN UNIVERSITY      HAVE A DEJA VU SOON."  --NO ONE YOU KNOW
PHYSICS OR DIE!!!

"BODY ODOR IS THE WINDOW TO THE SOUL."  --DAVID BYRNE

here are the last two archive lists.
bwdavies. Sam Hill Cabal.
Subject: TP sounds
Summary: 
Expires: 
Sender: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: na
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Keywords: 

Archive Five:  728k compressed, 1119k decompressed
1.   Ben as your attorney, your friend, and you brother...
2.   Cooper introduces himself to Audrey
3.   gruff sleep, airpillow earplugs
4.   two things that trouble me (Monroe and JFK)
5.   your 24 hours are up...

Archive Six:  704k compressed, 1057k decompressed
1.   I love you, Sheriff Truman...
2.   Jermey Horne, last in his class...
3.   Leland says youUre going back to Missoula...MONTANA
4.   IUve got compassion running out of my nose...
5.   senor drool cup has, shall me say, a mind that wanders


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sam Hill Cabal"If there's anything insidious going
bwdavies@sunrise.bitnet on in the world, the media is behind
bwdavies@rodan.acs.syr.edu it!"-T.J. Teru
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sam Hill Cabal "If there's anything insidious going bwdavies@sunrise.bitneton in the world, the media is behind bwdavies@rodan.acs.syr.eduit!" -T.J. Teru

It's been established that Laura gave her diary to Harold Smith about
a week and a half before she died.  I believe Harold makes some
reference to this, and besides, the last entry I remember reading in
the diary (as found in bookstores across the country!) is that she
gave the diary to him to prevent BOB from being able to get at it any
more.

How, then, did Laura get to make two more entries in it?  We know
she's accounted for in the hours leading up to her death; at least we
know that she probably wouldn't have had a chance to run over to
Harold's home, steal the diary, write a cute entry in it, tear out the
page, and somehow get Harold to deliver it to Mrs. Tremond without
Harold being able to remember doing so later.

And that entry about her dream -- no.  No.  No, no, no!  All wrong.
The scriptwriters must have made a list of things to be sure not to
forget to mention sometime in the episode, and they just conveniently
dumped a whole load of it onto that diary page.  All there, delivered
in that one nice little packet; if Donna had happened to revisit Mrs.
Tremond again before that episode (what, the elderly only eat one meal
every few days?), she would have gotten the letter earlier, and the
mystery might have been solved earlier.

No, the diary page was hypodermically injected into the World of Twin
Peaks.  Laura didn't write it -- it's physically impossible and
completely nonsensical to think that she could have!  It was penned by
the hand of David Lynch himself: "Here are the clues!  Simple, huh?
Obvious enough for ya?  Betcha feel stupid for not catching on
sooner!"

The _only_ possible way out of this conundrum is by figuring that,
well, maybe Laura _did_ stop by and write that one diary entry, and
swore Harold not to tell anyone about it.  But that makes absolutely
no sense at all.  If you knew you were going to die, would you visit a
paranoid shut-in to write a page in your diary that was critically
important for a friend of yours to see, then have the paranoid shut-in
give that important letter to someone else and promise not to breathe
a word about it?  Not.

Can anyone else think of a way out of this?  This one little glitch
totally destroys the episode for me, because it's an example of the
scriptwriters giving up on their creation and deciding to magically
pull things out of the air, hoping that the audience won't catch on.

All semblance of plot is now shot to pieces.  I'm only watching it now
for the interesting characters, like Albert (oh, right, he's not
interesting since he turned nice), and Josie (oh, that's right, she
left), and the Log Lady (oh, they seem to have forgotten about her,
that's right)...

I think I'll go catch the next plane out of Seattle.

     << Brian >>

| Brian S. Kendig      \ Macintosh |   Engineering,   | bskendig             |
| Computer Engineering |\ Thought  |  USS Enterprise  | @phoenix.Princeton.EDU
| Princeton University |_\ Police  | -= NCC-1701-D =- | @PUCC.BITNET         |
"It's not that I don't have the work to *do* -- I don't do the work I *have*."

dup94@campus.swarthmore.edu   (Daniel Pedersen - Keren's Daddy) writes:
> >
> >Speaking of lawsuits, Leland's constitutional rights were being demolished in
> >the scene where he is shoved into the cell and questioned - unless during the
> >blackout between the two scenes someone had read him his rights and obtained
> >a signed waiver from him, declining his right to an attorney.
> >
Leland _IS_ (or, rather, was) an attorney.

>> >>The giant said he would give the ring back after his three statements
>> >>were shown to be true.  What is there in this episode that satisfied
>> >>this condition?  I don't see how Cooper has any notion of why the owls
>> >>are not what they seem.
> >
> >Didn't you see the episode where Major Briggs showed Cooper the nifty
> >little printout with the words "/THE/OWLS/ARE/NOT/WHAT/THEY/SEEM/"
> >written on it?  This was the event to which the giant was referring.

Absolutely right!  People seem to be misunderstanding the Giant's
prophecies.  The Giant was predicting things that Cooper might NOTICE in
the coming days, so that Cooper would believe in the Giant's ability to
foretell stuff.  He was not guaranteeing Cooper complete understanding
of all the issues.

-----------------------------------

[1] "There's a man in a smiling bag."  Fulfilled when Cooper saw Jacques
Renault's body.  Cooper repeated the words.

[2] "The owls are not what they seem."  Fulfilled when Cooper read the
printout from Major Briggs.  Cooper repeated the words.

[3] "Without chemicals, he points."  Fulfilled when Cooper and Truman
interrogated the One Armed Man.  Denied the blue drug (chemical), Gerard
yielded to MIKE; when shown the police sketch of BOB, MIKE reached out
and emphatically pointed at the picture (close up shot of Gerard's fist
and finger slapping down onto the table).  Cooper did not repeat the
words at that time.  Just possibly the prophecy refers to MIKE's
identification of BOB rather than that particular gesture, although the
other predictions are pretty concrete.  Either way, fulfilled.

[4] "Leo locked inside a hungry horse."  Fulfilled the next day when
Hawk tells Cooper Leo was in jail in Hungry Horse MT the night Teresa
Banks was killed.  I think Cooper repeated the words, but I'm not sure.

-----------------------------------

I don't know why the predictions were given in that order.  Some of them
appear to advance the case materially, while others seem fairly trivial.

One, about the owls, predicts Cooper being told about something we still
don't really understand, although it looks like the time's coming.

Let's hope we're in for a quality upgrade soon, so we can enjoy
some of these mysteries instead of glossing over them.

-- Canada -- a few acres of snow. ^v^v^ Tom Neff -- Voltaire v^v^v tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM

I don't think people should flood the world with 70-kilobyte "articles"
that only a fraction of readers can use.  This is a DISCUSSION group.
If you have big binaries to share, post them for anonymous FTP
somewhere.

In article <1990Dec5.104407.1376@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> pasj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:
> >1. has anyone noticed that no one on TP (except the LL??) has any PETS???
> >   I find this peculiarly nonrural.

Almost nobody has PETS on TV.  They're a pain in the *@&# on the set,
and they seldom help the story.  A few well trained sheepdogs seem to
grace sitcom families.

In article <1990Dec6.090954.15746@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> slg20427@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Special Agent Cooper) writes:
> >Spoilers follow!


> >like a lot of scenes at the police station.  A federal agent (probably) tells
> >Cooper that he is being suspended from the FBI.  This character was actually
> >black!  

Clarence Williams III from MOD SQUAD?



-- To have a horror of the bourgeois (\( Tom Neff is bourgeois. -- Jules Renard )\) tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM

I will be taking a trip to washington (seattle to be more specific)
and my roommate brought up the fact that we could go by where 
"twin peaks" is actually located. she is not sure where it is, can
anyone help by telling me the directions to twin peaks from 
california?

Jenny

In article <1990Dec3.022535.21194@watserv1.waterloo.edu> alternat@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Ann Hodgins) writes:
> > 
> >However, if there needs to be some rapport between Bob and the person he
> >choses as a host then perhaps the psychological and spiritual explanations
> >can co-exist, at least for a while.

I was also disappointed in the spirit explanation, and believing that
there was a rapport between Leland and BOB is the only thing that
saves it for me.  Otherwise the whole thing becomes so random and
meaningless.

Thinking that child abuse was being explored in Twin Peaks gave it a
deeper layer of meaning and a stronger emotional impact. That's why
it's disappointing to think of it as "just" spirits. But I can accept
*both*.
-- c2h5oh@ucscb.ucsc.edu | "Have you ever seen a grown man in a beard and | business attire hopping, skipping and jumping in the | Port Authority terminal? It looks damned stupid."

In article <1990Dec6.180325.405@watserv1.waterloo.edu> alternat@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Ann Hodgins) writes:
> >I think that Albert has a very decent and simple side to his
> >character that comes through in the final scene of last week's
> >episode. But I was irritated by the scene anyway because I could
> >not see why, after keeping up his cool facade for so long, Albert
> >would suddenly show his other side when Maddy is found.  After all,
> >Albert has dealt with many violent deaths without showing his inner
> >emotions. He was quite cool about Laura.  There is no logical reason
> >why another body of another girl unknown to him personally would 
> >cause him to break down so completely. 

That's right, Ann, but is Albert a logical man? And how do you know
how he's reacted to other violent deaths (we haven't seen his reactions
to other cases outside of Twin Peaks). Albert, in the scene where he
and Cooper and Truman are discussing Maddy's death, is showing
frustration, IMHO. He and Cooper are FBI agents. They are supposed to
"get their man". Possibly because either he or Cooper has overlooked
or not found evidence, Maddy is dead and wrapped in plastic.

We already know that Albert is a bit of a pacifist (remember his 
refusal to fight Truman and his "King and Gandhi" speech). He told
Cooper to "find this beast before it takes another bite." Despite his
sarcastic tongue and superior attitude, he wants to get the job done.
Cooper probably wouldn't have requested him if he wasn't the best
in his profession.

Regardless, I hope Albert stays in town. . .

Jeff Abbott
abbott@mobius.mcc.aca.com

In article <9012031726.AA02255@gaffa.MIT.EDU> gaffa!jsd (Jon Drukman) writes:

> >I remember way back when the first few episodes after the dream
> >sequence were aired insisting vehemently that the dwarf HAD TO BE
> >Leland because of the similarities of their dancing style.  My friends
> >all laughed and ridiculed me, but I was RIGHT!  OK, so I didn't know
> >that it meant that Leland was the killer, but I did get the symbolism
> >correct.

I also thought the dwarf was meant to represent Leland - but I have a
lot of trouble believing he is meant to represent the killer. The
whole explanation - especially the stuff with the gum - seems very
glib and forced and deliberately tying-up-all-the-loose-ends.
-- c2h5oh@ucscb.ucsc.edu | "Have you ever seen a grown man in a beard and | business attire hopping, skipping and jumping in the | Port Authority terminal? It looks damned stupid."

Excerpts from netnews.alt.tv.twin-peaks: 4-Dec-90 Re: Wanna know where
BOB went? David Hafken@eniac.seas. (1033)

> >In article <28608@usc> marks@skat.usc.edu (Louise Marks) writes:
>> >>WHO smashed Leland's head into the door, I can't figure out.  BOB had
>> >>told Cooper to "watch Leland when I pull the plug" (or words to that
>> >>effect), which could mean several things:
>> >>
>> >>1)  Bob made Leland kill himself so Bob could leave
>> >>
>> >>2)  Bob made Leland kill himself just for kicks--it wasn't necessary
>> >>    in order for Bob to leave his host
>> >>
>> >>3)  After Bob left, Leland remembered everything he'd done and killed 
>> >>    himself.
> >
> >I don't think the Leland would have killed himself in such a violent manner-
> >I really don't think that it would have been his first reaction after
realizing
> >what he has done to go ramming himself over and over again into a steel door;
> >therefore, I do believe BOB is responsible for this death as well, and I
> >believe that it very well could be combination between 1) and 2) above --
> >certainly BOB gets pleasure out of killing, and as others have suggested, BOB
> >must kill his host in order to leave.

Beating heads against walls is, I believe, a common reaction of people
breaking down. This is, although, a wee bit dramatic!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------- I could be wong, I could be right ----------------------------
-------- They put a hotwire to my head -------------------------------
-------- For the things I did and said -----------------------------------
-------- They made these feelings go away, --------------------------
--------- Model citizen in every way. ----------------------------------
--------- My the road rise with you. -----------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------- Rob "Physics major failing physics ----------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In article <275C39B0.5874@ics.uci.edu> bvickers@ics.uci.edu (Brett J. Vickers) writes:

> >Of course there are still a few things this theory fails to explain.  The
> >most glaring example I can think of is the owl's face being superimposed
> >over BOB's.

It makes sens if "the owls are not what they seem" means that the owls
are not what Cooper perceives them to be, i.e. evil. i like the
theory, too. But then, I have three owl knickknacks on my dresser, and
I have enough trouble with nightmares. ;-)
-- c2h5oh@ucscb.ucsc.edu | "Have you ever seen a grown man in a beard and | business attire hopping, skipping and jumping in the | Port Authority terminal? It looks damned stupid."

Hey, can someone tell me about W.E.?  I know he's Cooper's ex-partner,
was in an asylum (but recently escaped), and is a master of disguise.
What else do we know about him?  

When did his name crop first up?  How could I have possibly missed it?

Craig.

P.S.  Just when I started appreciating Albert's "whimsical" sense of 
      humor he all but does a complete personality turn...very sad.

In article <49284@eerie.acsu.Buffalo.EDU> v22964qs@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu writes:
 
> >I also find these criticisms of the "plotlessness" of David Lynch to be 
> >interesting.  To me, Twin Peaks has one of the most involved and convoluted
> >plots of any TV show around.  To most people, THIS has been the ultimate
> >reason people have left the show.  Thus, I think Lynch/Frost's strange
> >"indulgences" (if you insist) are quite forgivable.  

There's a sense in which too-much-plot = no-plot. Read a P.G.
Wodehouse book, for example - the most twisty, convoluted, complicated
plots you'd ever want to see but nothing actually happens, really.

However, I think the criticism of Lynch, apropos TP, is not that he
doesn't use plot but that he doesn't *care about it*. This is
certainly true, but not necessarily a Bad Thing. Lynch's episodes are
surely the most interesting and engrossing. On the other hand, if
other people weren't involved, to actually push the plot forward, it
might get *too* disjointed and hard to follow. (Not really my opinion,
since I think most of the actual plot of TP is boring anyway.)
-- c2h5oh@ucscb.ucsc.edu | "Have you ever seen a grown man in a beard and | business attire hopping, skipping and jumping in the | Port Authority terminal? It looks damned stupid."

In article <67089348@bfmny0.BFM.COM> tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM (Tom Neff) writes:
>>> >>>The giant said he would give the ring back after his three statements
>>> >>>were shown to be true.  What is there in this episode that satisfied
>>> >>>this condition?  I don't see how Cooper has any notion of why the owls
>>> >>>are not what they seem.
>> >>
>> >>Didn't you see the episode where Major Briggs showed Cooper the nifty
>> >>little printout with the words "/THE/OWLS/ARE/NOT/WHAT/THEY/SEEM/"
>> >>written on it?  This was the event to which the giant was referring.
> >
> >Absolutely right!  People seem to be misunderstanding the Giant's
> >prophecies.  The Giant was predicting things that Cooper might NOTICE in
> >the coming days, so that Cooper would believe in the Giant's ability to
> >foretell stuff.  He was not guaranteeing Cooper complete understanding
> >of all the issues.

No, the giant said something along the lines of "You will get your
ring back when you find these things to be true."

If I tell you that George Bush is actually Elvis, and tomorrow the
headlines of the National Enquirer read `George Bush is Really
Elvis!!!', does that mean that you've really truly found that George
Bush is Elvis?

If I tell you that the owls are not what they seem, and tomorrow some
dude shows you a computer printout that ways the same thing, does that
mean you've found out that the owls are not what they seem?

The whole business with owls wasn't developed nearly enough.  Cooper
didn't find out that it was true that the owls weren't what they
seemed; he just got the picture that they weren't fooling many people
at being whatever they were trying to be.

I think if Lynch had taken the time to close the plotlines off
correctly, the owls would have been revealed to be something -- maybe
the `owls' represented other spirits like MIKE and BOB, or the
Bookhouse Boys, or the women, or whoever -- but they _could_ have
meant SOMETHING.  But Lynch decided to get rid of that ambiguity as
quickly as possible, and decided that it was sufficient just to have
another person tell Cooper about the owls.

Let me just point out that back after that episode where Major Briggs
brought the printout to Cooper, everyone here was saying `Oh! Now
we'll get to see who the owls really are!' and everyone began posting
theories.  No one suspected that the printout was the end of that
plotline!

Oh, and how do you know that the message "/THE/OWLS/ARE/NOT/WHAT
/THEY/SEEM/" wasn't really coming from Mike Nelson (Bobby Briggs's
friend), sitting atop the radar dish with a small transmitter to foul
it up?  [1/2 ;) ]

Another point against a thoroughly scrappy episode, in my opinion.

     << Brian >>

| Brian S. Kendig      \ Macintosh |   Engineering,   | bskendig             |
| Computer Engineering |\ Thought  |  USS Enterprise  | @phoenix.Princeton.EDU
| Princeton University |_\ Police  | -= NCC-1701-D =- | @PUCC.BITNET         |
"It's not that I don't have the work to *do* -- I don't do the work I *have*."

In article <35570031@hpopd.HP.COM> richardh@hpopd.HP.COM (Richard Hancock) writes:
> >/ hpopd:alt.tv.twin-peaks / cbullin@athena.mit.edu (Carrie L Bullington) /  5:32 pm  Dec  5, 1990 /
> >
>> >> ... seeing the director of Die Hard-2).  In the "Rolling
>> >> Stone" article featuring Lara, Sherilyn, and Madchen,
> >
> >Which issue of "Rolling Stone" was this?

This was about 4 or 5 months ago.  I wouldn't bother rushing out and
finding a copy.  The interviews with the ladies seemed more like
something out of "Wayne's World".  Giggly, titilating, "babes in
the woods", man.  "Can you tie a knot in a cherry stem?"  "What
kind of pie do you prefer?".

There was also an interview with Kyle.  It focused more on his
career.

-- Scott Amspoker | Basis International, Albuquerque, NM | "I'm going out for a sandwich" (505) 345-5232 | - Ben unmvax.cs.unm.edu!bbx!bbxsda!scott |

In article <4534@idunno.Princeton.EDU> bskendig@bonnet.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) writes:
> >How, then, did Laura get to make two more entries in it?  We know
> >she's accounted for in the hours leading up to her death; at least we
> >know that she probably wouldn't have had a chance to run over to
> >Harold's home, steal the diary, write a cute entry in it, tear out the
> >page, and somehow get Harold to deliver it to Mrs. Tremond without
> >Harold being able to remember doing so later.

I thought about this.  If you ignore the existance of the secret
diary being sold in bookstores it actually might work.  I know,
that's a hack but it leaves the television show more coherent.

Laura could have given the diary to Harold on her last day, or she
could have given it to him earlier and made entries in it whenever
she visited him.

What I find interesting is that Harold could have known she was going
to die that night.  What would he have done?

-- Scott Amspoker | Basis International, Albuquerque, NM | "I'm going out for a sandwich" (505) 345-5232 | - Ben unmvax.cs.unm.edu!bbx!bbxsda!scott |

> > It's been established that Laura gave her diary to Harold Smith
> > about a week and a half before she died.
.-.
|N|o it hasn't.  Sorry to throw a damper on all that stuff you
`-' typed in, but as Uncle Walter used to say, that's the way
    it is.

> > the Log Lady (oh, they seem to have forgotten about her, that's
> > right)...
.-.
|G|ood heavens, we haven't seen her for Two! Whole! Episodes!
`-' Obviously she's been written out completely, right?

/F356/<_Jym_Dyer_>/B893/A972/F83/H25/N729/F387/G298/O37/X235/Q734/
/X243/K822/L262/B23/THE/OWLS/ARE/NOT/WHAT/THEY/SEEM/B383/L947/M84/
/M867/B586/K389/O98/AND/I/LIKE/WHALES/N37/B88/L867/P213/N297/B957/
/W482/jym@mica.berkeley.edu/I55/K387/P987/R80/Z903/Y983/O092/C381/

In article <1990Dec5.043912.12969@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu> spcoltri@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Steve Coltrin) writes:
> >And did it sound like 'FUTURES past' this time to anyone else?

It sure did.  It occurred to me that maybe the way to interpret it is
"future's past", i.e., the past of the future, i.e., the present.  I
don't know if that really helps any, but there it is.

                           :: Jeff Makey

Department of Tautological Pleonasms and Superfluous Redundancies Department
    Disclaimer: I am just a guest of Logicon.
    Domain: Makey@Logicon.COM    UUCP: ucsd!snoopy!Makey

sher@umbc3.UMBC.EDU (Sherri Crain) writes:

> > In article <Zg5mT1w163w@zitt> joe [Joe Zitt] writes:
> > 
>> > >(and if you're planning on hassling me for considering my sleep more 
>> > >important than your "recovery", save your breath. I don't even know who
>> > >the hell you are, and I don't particularly care.)
> > 
> > This newsgroup is supposed to be a place where people can discuss
> > *recovery* and hopefully offer some suggestions or some hope to those
> > who are experiencing particular problems in their recovery.  It is not
> > an appropriate place to react in anger and resentment towards other
> > subscribers.  I am sorry that you had the misfortune of being awakened
> > by someone in anger,but this is not the appropriate place for retaliation!
> > 
> > We are here to help each other through recovery,not to character assassinate
> > each other and rip apart each others programs.  I will be adding this thread
> > to my KILL file,but I hope for the sake of those who continue to read this
> > thread,any future articles will take on a healthier tone.

After reading Mr. Zitt's post, I think he clearly implies that *this*
is indeed the place to discuss recovery, NOT his home phone!



Jenny Haefele 
Austin, Texas
[..] cs.utexas.edu!balkan!dogface!wnss!jenny

I will not do that thing with my tounge - B. Simpson 11/23/90

seems that a lot of you are saying that they didn't develope enough of the
owl concept, as if that is it to the story... maybe the writers just 
wrote it that way so to confuse everyone! I don't know. Maybe that is 
why they had the last scene with the owl because "what you did see was not
was it seems"...

Just a thought

In article <28216@megaron.cs.arizona.edu> gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary Newell) writes:
> >In article <1990Dec3.172554.267@iowasp.physics.uiowa.edu>, wilson@iowasp.physics.uiowa.edu (Peter D. Wilson) writes:
>> >> In article <28197@megaron.cs.arizona.edu>, gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary Newell) writes:
>>> >> > The scene with naval
>>> >> > personnel bouncing rubber balls in the GN while a spastic one-armed man
>>> >> > wiggles in his chair would seem an example of this in my opinion - what
>>> >> > purpose did those people serve? Did it relate in anyway to the plot? 
>> >>   This scene has been brought up several times as evidence that TP is
>> >>   worthless crap.  The basis for the claim is that it has nothing to
> >
> >I didn't say worhtless crap - my point is that a number of scenes did nothing
> >to advance the plot - the one above along with various things that dealt with
> >the murder (why wasn't ronnette offed anyway? - seems strange that Bob/leland
> >would put a letter under her nail and not just snuff her...)

What you don't seem to understand is that this is not typical television
series crap, where you have to do everything and present all the answers
in a neat little package in 48 minutes of air time.

The Who Killed Laura Palmer Show took (give or take) 20 hours to present
the complete story, with maybe a dozen subplots twisted in. With that
kind of time, the show's writers and directors can *afford* to take
excursions which don't advance the particular plot you're interested in.
They can do things that no other show can afford to do in terms of
visual presentation. They can develop characters who have character.
They can go off on tangents for a while before returning to the
main theme.

As an example, allow me to cite a scene which had absolutely nothing
to do with the WKLP thread: Nadine's suicide picnic. That was an 
absolutely stunning piece of drama, beautiful and heartbreaking.
If advancing the central plot line were the only criteria the producers
of TP used, that piece of film would never have been shot, and it
would have been a damned shame.

As for your question about Ronette: watch the show; it isn't over, we
haven't been given all the answers yet. We may never be given all the
answers, but I seriously doubt that BOB and MIKE are gone forever, nor
the Tremonds or the Giant. We'll probably find out exactly why the owls
are not what they seem and why Cooper doesn't like birds. Ronette will
undoubtedly come out of her coma and have something to impart.

Give it time. It doesn't all have to happen in one hour. Enjoy the ride.

-- Dave Mack

In article <16095@bfmny0.BFM.COM> tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM (Tom Neff) writes:
> >Haven't heard from the Andy-did-its in a while!  How ya doing out there?  :-)
> >
> >               *  *  *
> >
> >I felt disappointed at the breakneck, so-the-butler-knew-all-along kind
> >of 'wrapup' shoveled at us.  Maybe it's a consequence of reading so much
> >detailed speculation here, but at times Saturday night I felt like I
> >should have a clipboard to check off lists of broken theories!
> >

heh. You mean, like the BOB-can't-leave-Leland theory?

"When he was in me, I didn't know it, and when he was out of me
I couldn't remember." -- Leland

<gloat>

On the other hand, I was wrong about BOB first entering Leland
after he killed Jacques. Call it a tie.

<ungloat>

> >
> >Given the big lapful of loose ends he was charged with tying up, I
> >thought Tim Hunter did a creditable job of drawing us emotionally into
> >the picture.  If you've seen RIVER'S EDGE you know he has his own knack
> >for establishing a creepy feeling.  I don't think it works quite the
> >same on the boob tube, but I was definitely 'with the program' during
> >the Donna-dance and jail cell death scenes.
> >

Let's give a little credit to the writers, shall we? Or discredit,
depending on how you feel about the episode. As a screenwriter
wannabe, I get really annoyed with people giving the director all
the credit for what winds up on the screen. Goddamn auteurists
should all be shot - or forced to make a movie without a script.

> >
> >But let's give Ray Wise a standing O for his work these two seasons!  He
> >had a tough job and turned in one of the more memorable sustained
> >performances in years.  I agree with the person who wished him an Emmy
> >nomination, somewhat to my own surprise.  Doubt he'll get it though;
> >it's tough when you leave early in the season.
> >

I agree completely. Leland was one of the show's high points. Do you
suppose he has an identical cousin (except for the hair) somewhere
who'll come to help Sarah through her time of grief while making
everyone in the Sheriff's department extremely nervous?

> >If that spoiler about Cooper and Truman saying goodbye is true, and if
> >we sensibly assume MacLachlan outlasts Ontkean, then I'm not too
> >shocked.  Truman's importance in TWIN PEAKS has seldom been much more
> >than symbolic from the word go; lately he has dwindled to near
> >invisibility.  Guess they've been writing him out gracefully.  It's kind
> >of a shame; I'll miss his face.  He was wasted as a foil for Cooper's
> >stoic Aquarianisms; I hope he gets lots of good work now.
> >

I wouldn't count too much on Truman vanishing. Apparently Miguel
Ferrer isn't going to be a regular on the show and Cooper has to 
have someone as a foil. There don't seem to be any other candidates.
It has to be a law officer, and Andy doesn't quite fill the bill.
Hawk isn't voluble or incredulous enough for the part. Unless Lynch/Frost
wave a magic wand and make a whole new Sheriff appear, I don't see
how they can get rid of Truman.

> >
> >If BOB moves into Leo, I don't know how he's going to spook his way
> >around a spinal cord injury, but this isn't ST ELSEWHERE is it!  :-) It
> >sounds like a great hideout though: who would suspect a vegetable in a
> >wheelchair?
> >

What spinal cord injury? According to Doc Hayward (admittedly not
the 1990 Nobel Prizewinner for Medicine) Leo lost too much
blood before they got to him and suffered brain damage as a
result.

> >
> >By the way, can't they *find* any of the blue drug Gerard needs to
> >suppress MIKE and stop dehydrating to death?  

They apparently have some, since Doc Hayward was asking Cooper to
let him give Gerard the injection when Cooper went to question MIKE.

> >       Or are they deliberately
> >withholding it for some reason?  

Yup, so Cooper could talk to MIKE.

> >Gerard didn't actually quite kick the bucket on 12/1, did he?  I'm
> >assuming not.  

He was still breathing when Coop left the room. If he'd died, we
probably would have heard about it prior to the waltz in the Roadhouse.
Of course, Doc Hayward may have some bad news for us on 12/8.

> >
> >Who shot Cooper?  Does Cooper care?  Do we just dump that one on Leland
> >for grins, or is there someone else with a motive?

I'd put my money on Wyndham/Windom Earle. How many people in TP have
access to silenced weapons? Remember the Asian man in the room across
the hall? Isn't WE supposed to be a master of disguise?

> >If BOB escapes into someone else and starts to kill again, won't someone
> >have to do something stronger than arresting his latest human host?  Seems
> >like some serious exorcism is called for.  We could get more mystical
> >than any of us dreamed!

Well, we do seem to have MIKE, the Giant and the Tremonds playing on
the side of Light. (I assume the purpose of the Tremonds, since they
seem to have been spirits, was to point Donna to the secret diary with
the intent that it be gotten out of Harold Smith's hands and into
Cooper's. Of course, Donna botched the job.)

On the other hand, the next arc may be considerably more mundane.
Sherlock Cooper tracks down his insane ex-partner, Moriarty Earle?

-- Dave Mack

gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary Newell) writes:

> > For example? I cannot think of a movie with *no* plot that can
> > be considered good - strange yes, unique yes, but good? I don't know...

For example? Koyaanisqatsi, Powaqqatsi, and Book of Days leap to mind.

Joe Zitt...cs.utexas.edu!kvue!zitt!joe (512)450-1916

How would his behaviour as a meat-puppet be different from his behaviour
when "free-willed?"

-dB
--
"If it were easy to understand, we wouldn't call it 'code'"
David Brower: {amdahl, cpsc6a, mtxinu, sun}!rtech!daveb daveb@ingres.com

sher@umbc3.UMBC.EDU (Sherri Crain) writes:

> > In article <Zg5mT1w163w@zitt> joe [Joe Zitt] writes:
> > 
>> > >In my sleepiness, I apologized to you. I hereby retract the apology. 
>> > >Whoever you are, and whatever you are recovering from, I hope one of the 
>> > >steps cures your apparent rectal/cranial inversion. And I hope the Man From
>> > >Another Place shows up in your dreams tonight and tells you the plot of the
>> > >entire rest of the season.
> > 
> > This newsgroup is supposed to be a place where people can discuss
> > *recovery* and hopefully offer some suggestions or some hope to those
> > who are experiencing particular problems in their recovery.  It is not
> > an appropriate place to react in anger and resentment towards other
> > subscribers.  I am sorry that you had the misfortune of being awakened
> > by someone in anger,but this is not the appropriate place for retaliation!

The morning following my post, the anonymous wake-up-caller called again, 
at a reasonable hour, and apologized (to my answering machine) for his 
call, which he admitted was to the wrong poster, and which he attributed 
to his anger.

I agree that these newsgroup would not have been, in different 
circumstances, appropriate places for my message to him. However, I had 
no clue as to his identity, other than that he read alt.recovery, and I 
felt it important at the time to get my anger off my chest.

Both of us over/mis-reacted. I consider the issue to be finished now.

Joe Zitt...cs.utexas.edu!kvue!zitt!joe (512)450-1916