Season 2, Episodes 21–22: Miss Twin Peaks / Beyond Life and Death — June 10, 1991–August 27, 1992

Interesting watching the reactions to the finale.  So far, they seemed to
be:

1) Disappointment--the good guys lose.
2) Disappointment--the ending was boring.
3) Loved it--the good guys lose.
4) Loved it--the ending was enigmatic.

Mine is:

5) Disappointment--the ending was not particularly well done.

I don't mind the enigma or the hanging plot threads, I don't mind the
good guys losing, and I like Lynch's sense of slow pace (cf
Eraserhead).  What I didn't like was that he completely failed to do
anything (artistically) new with The Red Room, except for the
interesting strobe effect on Cooper's face.  It wasn't nearly as
visually arresting as the original dream sequence; all the subtleties
of that original sequence (the lighting, the floating shadows) seemed
to be missing.  It just felt like a room with a bunch of red curtains,
not The Red Room.  Moreover, he failed to develop any new themes.

My impression of the whole series is that Lynch was less and less
involved with it in the second season, and came back to do a
perfunctory job on the ending.  The writers, having a bunch of loose
hints and themes to tie together in one episode, went for the
enigmatic route, but failed to give it any sense of depth.  It
wouldn't have been so bad if they had at least bothered to make it
look like they knew what they were doing.

(Visual) style over (plot) substance would have been fine had there
been any style, but there was none besides the rehashed elements from
the third episode of the first season.


nj

While I haven't had a chance to rewatch the Black Lodge sequence yet,
here's my interpretation of what went wrong and how Bob got Cooper.
Laura had figured out one crucial law of the Twin Peaks universe --
that the worst thing Bob/the Black Lodge could do to her without her
consent was to destroy her physical body, and that the alternative of
surrendering to Bob had a much higher cost -- the loss of her soul.
If I remember correctly, this was even made explicit in Leland's
death scene where he talked about Bob and Laura. Cooper forgot this
when offered the choice between saving Annie's life and giving up
his soul.

Here's one that no one seems to have noticed....When WE first takes
Annie to the Sycamore circle, she's praying some prayer (of protection
probably?  Good idea!).  WE drags her into the circle, says some silly
rifraf encantation, and ZAP, Annie is "mesmerized" (If I spelled it
correctly, as in Hypnotized).  After this, look at her eyes (they are
a little hard to see, but they are noticeable).  Guess what???
DOPPLEGANGER EYES!!!!!!  What do YOU think this means???????

In article <64621@bbn.BBN.COM>, ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria) writes:
> > 
> > In article <wR5c42w163w@zitt> joe@zitt (Joe Zitt) writes:
> > 
[ ... stuff I basically agree with deleted ...]
> > 
> >    Seems like we were right in guessing that the Waiter and the Giant were
> >    the same.
> > 
> > Well, there seem to be two strains of interpretation here about what
> > the Giant's ``One and the same'' means:
> > 
> > (1) Since we see the Waiter bring the coffee and the Giant go back, it
> > is the Waiter and the Giant that are ``One and the same''.  (This is
> > what I took it to mean.)
> > 
> > (2) Since the Giant says ``One and the same'' as he sits down beside
> > the LMFAP, he means that the two of them are ``One and the same''.  I
> > personally disfavor this, although I did think, when I saw the two of
> > them sitting side by side that this answered Albert's question to Coop
> > about the Giant: ``Any relation to the dwarf?''

I would also like to believe the first, but my initial reaction was the
opposite.  When the Giant said that I immediately pictured the big and little
figures in the petroglyph.

- Vanya J Cooper, Pima Community College, District Computer Services -
  Internet: vcooper@pimacc.pima.edu
  Paper: 2202 West Anklam Road, Tucson, Arizona 85709 USA
  Voice: 602 884-6809

barb@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Barb Miller) writes:


> >In article <1991Jun11.162522.17747@cica.indiana.edu> will@ogre (William Sadler) writes:

>> >>   Since Cooper becomes wounded I would guess that he
>> >>   is the "arthur" figure and that he is either going to have to
>> >>   restore himself (from inside the Black Lodge ?) or someone is going to
>> >>   have to do it for him.  If Lynch holds true to arthurian legends it would
>> >>   be a child without a father, or maybe even a child Annie might have(?).

> >Actually, since the writers brought in King Arthur at this late date,
> >I would have to give that role to Windom Earle (in a twisted sort of
> >way).  Caroline could be Guinevere and that would make Cooper be
> >Lancelot.  I don't think Cooper wants to be King of anything; his
> >character is much better suited to the role of the knight of
> >exceptional ability, very close and loyal to the King, but at the same
> >time the secret lover of the Queen.  Having killed off the first Queen
> >(Caroline), Windom Earle has to pursue Cooper and set up another Queen
> >for him to love, refusing to let go of that triangle relationship.

Actually, if you continue this line of reasoning it would explain
Coop's lack of success in the Black Lodge. Lancelot was unable to
succeed in the quest for the Grail because of the impurity inherent
in his consumated love for another man's wife. That is why the need
for the Galahad and Percival figures in the Arthurian legends.

Perhaps it is Albert's form of non sexual love that is needed to
win through to the White Lodge and save everyone.

In any case, I agree that to date the parallel's to the Arthurian
legends are a little strained.

Rodney

--
Rodney K. Cooper   rkc@svl.cdc.com    (408) 496-4264 
Control Data Corporation - Silicon Valley Operations
5101 Patrick Henry Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95054-1111

In <9106120704.AA17938@cas.org> lwv27@CAS.BITNET (Larry W. Virden ext. 2487) writes:

> >Anyone have official references (ie not - "I read somewhere") as to
> >where the footage in the 2 hr movie came from?  I keep hearing folks
> >say that they were filmed before TP was cancelled, that they were
> >plotted before, etc.  I dont have a problem believing that - but I
> >am searching for some REASON to believe that, given that by
> >Jan or Feb everyone knew TP was in trouble.
> >--

Nothing official, but I remember Kimmy Robertson (Lucy) on the Letterman
at the beginning of the FIRST big hiatus (pre 2017).  That puts it around
January, I believe.  And at that time she was discussing some of the
up-coming final six shows, including the Miss TP Contest.  Again, noting
concrete, but obviously the stuff was laid out along time ago, and I
doubt they would change the story line on the chance that it might
not get picked up.

sj

> > One example is the bank scene. I agree that it was pretty
> > humorous, but I'd rather not spend 5 minutes watching an
> > old man look confused.

    I loved that scene, and I'll tell you why.  We were set up.
We were told that Twin Peaks S&L (or whatever) was quietly funding
this evil Ghostwood thing, and they were trying to keep a low
profile.

    Now this made me think of the big evil faceless banks that we
all know and loathe:  the Citibanks and their quiet financing of
ventures in South Africa, or even the Silverados and their lining
of Weenie Jr.'s pockets.

    So Lynch shows us what this bank really is:  a Mom & Pop Shop
run by Mr Americana.

    I agree that Lana's dance was a waste of film.  The Lana
character remains the embodiment of mediocre plotting, IMHO.

> > First of all, cheers to Angelo Badalementi for the new suspense
> > theme. I like it! That eeiry tune will be with me the rest of my
> > days.)

    Yeah, and it's about time.  The second season has mostly been
a disappointment for me, musicwise.  Nothing to compare with the
"Dreamy" Audrey's Dance theme (which really did inspire dreams),
and Laura's Theme dropped out of the picture.

    I've decided that what I disliked most about J.J. Wheeler was
his damn theme music.  It sounded like a Coors commercial, dammit!
And when he took off in his plane, the soundtrack a-twangin', I
thanked my lucky stars I would never have to hear it again.

    Except that it made a comeback when Audrey and ben were
talking about him.  Oh well. :-)
    <_Jym_>

In article <838@spam.ua.oz> dcook@spam.ua.oz (David Cook) writes:
> >I would like to point out that Australia is *waaaay* behind
> >the Rest Of The World ... The episode in which Leland dies
> >was only shown last week !

If Oz is waaaay behind, then New Zealand is waaaaaaaay behind everyone
else.  Leland just got arrested this week!  This is another vote for
the continuation of this group (though it *is* difficult to read without
seeing spoilers from time to time).

Cheers,
-- Ken Spagnolo - Systems Programmer, Postmaster, Usenet Administrator, etc. Computer Centre, Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand K.Spagnolo@massey.ac.nz Ph: +64-6-356-9099 x8587 New Zealand = GMT+12

In article <1991Jun7.151442.12902@pbs.org> mpax@pbs.org (Cool Bean) writes:

   I use 'Aces' and 'He has a poor sense of recreation' a lot.  Though the most
   memorable for me is 'The owls are not what they seem.'


"It is happening again."  And, of course, the infamous "How's Annie?"

*evil grin*

best --

     byron  (:

--
byron c gobyron@ocf.berkeley.edubgo@ucsee.berkeley.edu

"Could you please be a little tad bit  more specific-er?"
"Could you please be a bit more terse?"

I thought they have always been that color too. I think its just a
coincidence but with Lynch you never Know.

In article <109772@sgi.sgi.com> sjohnson@texas.vlsi.sgi.com (Scott Johnson) writes:
> >Did anyone else notice the paleness of all of the characters at the
> >beginning?  Especially Windom when he first appears.  It looked like
> >he'd been rolling in the flour.  And when he smiled, I thought his
> >teeth were black.  Am I going crazy?  No one else has mentioned it,
> >but I'm sure the three of us watching it all freaked.  Then we
> >noticed everyone seemed pale.  Maybe we were just sensitive.  I
> >loaned out my tape or I'd check it again.

> >Please someone reaffirm me here.

> >sj

I think WE had some sort of makeup on as part of a disguise when he left
the cabin, and then returned to find Major Briggs gone.
-- Jeff Hansen /\ ----------- "How's Annie?" / \/\ Internet: jmh@aal.itd.umich.edu /___/__\ Jeff_Hansen@ub.cc.umich.edu BitNet: userHCQ7@ubumich

In article <1991Jun12.013610.13554@grebyn.com> fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Oceanstar) writes:
> >(Let's start thinking of titles for those movies, y'all.)

Twin Peaks: The Motion Picture
Twin Peaks II: The Wrath of Bob
Twin Peaks III: The Search for Coop

(I couldn't resist.)
-- Jeff Hansen /\ ----------- "How's Annie?" / \/\ Internet: jmh@aal.itd.umich.edu /___/__\ Jeff_Hansen@ub.cc.umich.edu BitNet: userHCQ7@ubumich

In article <1991Jun14.000611.1@lure.latrobe.edu.au> phylac@lure.latrobe.edu.au writes:

> >  1) How can "love be enough"? {Put another way I believe "love is not enough"
> >     as has been mentioned often in postings here relates to the Yin/Yang like
> >     nature of the spiritual conflict/battles going on in TP.}
> >
The question is "enough for what?"

Since Major Briggs is the person who first said this, and there seems to
be a strong consensus that, just as fear is what gives power to Bob
and opens the door to the Black Lodge, love is what opens the door to
the White Lodge (I'm not sure this was ever stated outright by anyone
in the actual script), it may just be that Major Briggs' fear that
"love is not enough" is a fear that love is not enough to bring one
into the White Lodge.  Perhaps if he believes that he reached the
White Lodge, his greatest fear is that love is in fact not enough to
reach it, and so he has deceived himself about having done so.
Depending upon how much he has staked on his faith in the White
Lodge, this could be a very great fear indeed.

For other people in the story (and larger world), it may be that love
must be enough to overcome the fear that Bob feeds upon and that gives
greater power to the Black Lodge, whether that Lodge be an actual
entity or a psychological state.

> >    Does anyone think that the hateful/evil forces for any specific
> >    personality in the TP world will have to combine with the good
> >    side/forces to end in "victory" in the conflict? 

Bingo.  Thank you for stating something that has been in the back of
my mind for a while.  The Jungian reading I've done makes me want to
see the process of passing through the Black Lodge to get to the White
Lodge as meeting one's shadow, the embodiment of all one's most
shameful suppressed characteristics, and INTEGRATING them in order to
let one's entire self operate consciously.

> >     On the surface of it I see the existence of Bob and the requirement for a
> >     "perfect courage" to be disproofs of such a thesis as the above.

Not necessarily.  How about this: we suppress our evil side because we
are afraid to think that we ourselves might be capable of terrible deeds
(whatever we think those deeds are). But in order to stop living in
such a way that we project our own shadow onto others but it continues
to cause us to unconsciously act out our shadow side, we have to face
the fact that there is this side of us, and have enough love and
acceptance of ourselves as mere humans to acknowledge that there can
be positive power to the tendencies we are suppressing, if we don't
let them get out of hand.  

Having gone out on this Jungian limb, I could further say that Bob, whose
existence is limited to visions and the Black Lodge, could be the
collective shadow of the entire community.  Unless we each take
responsibility for the part that our personal shadow plays in making
Bob powerful, he will continue to destroy.  

> >     But what is "perfect courage" anyway?

I'm not sure the requirement is "perfect courage" so much as enough
courage to see and acknowledge the worst in ourselves without letting
it take over.  This carries over into the requirement for love in the
sense that we not only have to love and accept ourselves for what we
are, but we also have to allow the people we love to be who they
really are, rather than just projecting parts of ourselves onto them.

In Cooper's case, this could mean allowing himself to see Annie not
only as an innocent and vulnerable soul emerging into an exciting but
cruel world (as he himself has been) and requiring his protection, but
as a woman who might have power of her own. To acknowledge his dark
side to her in the Black Lodge would take tremendous courage and faith
in her love for him as a whole person rather than as a protector.

If you haven't seen the finale, you haven't been puzzling as I have
over the moment when WE asks Cooper to give him his soul in order to save
Annie and Cooper says he will let WE have it.  It seems like a very
noble sacrifice, a symbol of great love for Annie.  But Bob is right.
Where does Windom Earle (or Cooper for that matter) get the power to
decide what will happen to Annie in the Black Lodge?  If the REAL
Annie is there (not just Annie as she reflects the projections of
Cooper, Windom Earle, and even the town, since she has been just been
given the title of Miss Twin Peaks), she is having her own struggle to
achieve wholeness.  The only Annie that Cooper can give his soul in order
to save is the image of Annie that he carries inside him.  Perhaps
that projection has to be allowed to die in order for Cooper to
possess his entire self.  Refusing to let that projection die could in
fact be the same as giving up his soul. 

So, in the final scene, when Cooper sees Bob in himself and starts to
ask in that chilling voice: "How's Annie?", it underscores the fact
that the Cooper we have known all along shares with Bob a view of
women as beautiful and vulnerable souls.  The difference has been that
Bob has tried to destroy them and Cooper has tried to protect them.
The trip to the Black Lodge has not changed that view for Cooper--he
is still projecting his own anima onto Annie.  But he has taken the
first step toward integrating his shadow, although for the moment it
appears it has not been particularly successful, and in fact he may be
possessed by it.  But it is to be hoped that he will one day be able
to replace the question "How's Annie?" with "Who's Annie?".

Barb Miller

Well, the tenth version is finally here!  Sorry for the LOOOOONG delay
and enjoy!!  Lots of new updates as well!!!
--
**SPOILERS ABOUND FOR THOSE HERE AND IN EUROPE**

Background: This list was first done as a tongue-in-cheek joke by yours
truly, but is now a "canonical" listing of the legitimate and not-so-
legitimate recurring imagery that occurs freqently in the "^Twin Peaks^"
TV show.
 
Well, here's the TENTH version of this list.
Special thanks go to the following people for contributing:
  Linda Birmingham (twice), Scott L. Vandenberg, Ann Hodgins,
  Jeanne Stapleton, Bradford H. Needham (twice), Palmer Davis,
  "Arachnid", Greg M. Brown, Eric Daniels, Ron Sires, Bill Downing,
  "Scratch", Rocky Giovinazzo (thrice), Kathleen Hunt (twice),
  Bob Hettmansperger, John Locke, Nadir Ahmed (twice), Gary Kacmarcik,
  Marc Kriguer, David Barker-Plummer, S. Clark (twice), "Cool Bean",
  Kenneth Bays, Rod Johnson (twice), Kurt Svihla, Malachi O. Kelerison,
  Jeff Calhoun, Raymond S. Flournoy, Darren T. Burton, Scott Johnson,
  Robert Russell, Jim Shaffer, and a special thank you to Paul B. Loux
  for the BIG list.

Symbols/Motifs in the "^Twin Peaks^" Universe Version 10
(last updated 6/1/91, 4/21/91...): 

  1.  Sex, comedy, violence, and rock 'n roll music (what else could
one want in a TV show?)

  2.  Rotating objects:
a. Ceiling fan in the Palmer home
b. Ticking record player in the Palmer home
c. Ticking fan in the Hayward's attic

  3.  Traffic light

  4.  "Invitation to Love" soap opera

  5.  Waterfall outside The Great Northern Inn

  6.  Sprinkler on the Sheriff's Office ceiling

  7.  Birds:
a. Robin (?)(from opening sequence)
b. Crow (when Agent Cooper, Sheriff Truman, Deputy Hawk, and
     Doctor Hayward enter Jacque Renault's log cabin)
c. Woodpecker (Sheriff Truman sees one outside the Sheriff's
     Office window--Episode 1005?)
d. Chickadee on a Dodge Dart
e. Waldo the minah bird 
f. Owls:
     i. Owls
    ii. Owl Cave 

  8.  Psychic visions

  9.  Trees/forest/wood:
a. Forest in/outside Twin Peaks
b. Log Lady's log
c. Book House Boys patch
d. Knob on drawer in The Great Northern Inn

 10.  Dead people:
a. Laura Palmer
b. Bernard/Jacque/Jean Renault
c. Emory Battis
d. Blackie O'Reilly
e. Harold Smith
f. Madeleine Ferguson
g. Leland Palmer
h. Douglas "Dougie" Milford
i. Eric Powell (dead drifter)
j. Jeffery Marsh
k. Malcolm Sloan
l. Jonathan Kumagai
m. Thomas Eckhardt
n. Josie Packard
o. Rusty Tomaski (heavy metal victim)

      Also:
a. Theresa Banks
b. The Log Lady's husband (see #15)
c. Nicholas "Nicky" Needleman's parents
d. Caroline Powell Earle

 11.  Phases of the moon 

 12.  Glasses/sunglasses:
a. Doctor Jacoby
b. Benjamin Horne
c. Jerry Horne
d. The Log Lady
e. Madeleine Ferguson
f. Laura Palmer/Donna Hayward
g. Evelyn Marsh
h. Thomas Eckhardt
e. John Wheeler

 13.  Cigarette/cigar smoking:
a. Benjamin Horne
b. Shelley/Leo Johnson
c. Bobby Briggs
d. Audrey Horne
e. Josie Packard
f. Donna Hayward
g. Evelyn Marsh

 14.  Fire:
a. The Log Lady's husband died in a forest fire
b. "Fire, walk with me"--Mike and BOB
c. "Fire is the devil, hiding like a coward in the smoke"
     --The Log Lady
d. The scorched smell that Doctor Jacoby and Madeleine Ferguson
     both smelled when BOB was around
e. Packard sawmill fire
f. The fire from the fireplace at the Great Northern lobby
     reflecting off Thomas Eckhardt's sunglasses 

 15.  White horse:
a. Laura Palmer's pony (Troy) that was seen by Sarah Palmer
     right before BOB killed Madeleine Ferguson
b. "General" Benjamin Horne's Civil War piece(s)
c. "General" Benjamin Horne's stuffed horse "Traveller"

 16.  Light and dark/White and black:
a. White/Black Lodge
b. Chess pieces (see #21)

 17.  Light fixtures/lightbulbs on the ceiling:
a. Sputtering light in the morgue of the Calhoun Memorial
     Hospital when Agent Cooper Cooper inspects Laura Palmer's
     body
b. Sheriff's Office light when Eric Powell is found
c. Leo/Shelly Johnson's ceiling light when Leo awakens

 18.  Animal heads:
a. A chicken head (maybe a whole chicken) on "'Big' Ed's Gas
     Farm" sign (see #33)
b. The mounted deer head in the Sheriff's Office with "The Buck
     Stopped Here" sign
c. The deer head that's on the table when Sheriff Truman and
     Agent Cooper bring in Laura Palmer's safety deposit box
d. The assortment of trophys in the den (?) in Pete/Catherine
     Martell's home
e. The deer head next to Eric Powell
f. The cooked pig head that Josie serves as the main course in
     the dinner to Catherine Martell and Thomas Eckhardt
g. The mounted dear head in the Book House
h. The goat head that's visible when Andrew Packard opens the
     puzzle box

 19.  Hank Jenning's domino

 20.  Chess/chess pieces:
a. Agent Cooper and Windham Earle's chess game
b. "Dr. Gerald Craig's" gift (black knight) to Dr. Hayward
c. Rusty Tomaski inside giant (black pawn) at the gazebo

 21.  Twins/opposites:
a. Agent Cooper/Windham Earle
b. Agent Cooper/Albert Rosenfield
c. Laura Palmer/Madeleine Ferguson
d. Bobby Briggs/James Hurley
e. Bernard/Jacque Renault
f. Mike/Bob:
     i. Mike Nelson (Nadine Hurley's crush)/Bobby Briggs
    ii. Phillip Michael Gerard (the OAM)/Bob Lydecker (vet)
   iii. Mike (spirit inside OAM)/Killer BOB
g. The Giant/Little Man from Another Place

      Also:
a. Laura Palmer/James Hurley's broken heart necklace halves
b. Jade/Emerald from "Invitation to Love" (see #24)
c. Laura Palmer's two diaries
d. The two Packard Sawmill ledgers
e. $10K cash bundles
f. Boots ([Spit] "New shoes.") 

 22.  "Family trios" (warped versions on Daddy/Mommy/Child): 
a. Bobby Briggs/Shelly Johnson/Leo Johnson
b. (Dick Tremayne/Andy)/Lucy Moran/Nicholas "Nicky" Needleman
c. "Big" Ed Hurley/Norma Jennings/Nadine Hurley
d. Bobby Briggs/Audrey Horne/Benjamin Horne
e. Malcolm/Evelyn Marsh/James Hurley
f. (Pete Martell/Andrew Packard/Thomas Eckhardt)/Catherine Martell/
     Josie Packard

 23.  The color brown

 24.  Lookalikes (characters who physically resemble each other):
a. Benjamin Horne/Leland Palmer
b. Audrey Horne/Donna Hayward
c. Laura Palmer/Madeleine Ferguson
d. Sarah Palmer/Sylvia Horne

      Also
a. Jade/Emerald from "Invitation to Love"

 25.  Tattoos:
a. Phillip Michael Gerard (the OAM)
b. Major Brigg's neck
c. The Log Lady's leg
d. Windam Earle (in one scene)

 26.  Red curtains in various dreams/visions/places:
a. The Roadhouse stage
b. Agent Cooper's first dream sequence with the Little Man from
     Another Place
c. Jacque Renault's log cabin
d. One Eyed Jacks

 27.  Furry animals:
a. The llama
b. Josie Packard's vicuua coat
c. The white animal (fox?) in Benjamin Horne's office
d. The pine weasel
 
28.  Picnics:
a. Laura Palmer/Donna Hayward/James Hurley
b. Donna Hayward/James Hurley
c. Audrey Horne/John Wheeler

 29.  Items on shelves:
a. The Hurley home ("Big" Ed)
b. The Palmer's home (fireplace mantle)
c. The Great Northern

 30.  Alteregos/characters:
a. Madeleine Ferguson/Laura Palmer
b. Hester Prinn (sp?)/Audrey Horne
c. Leo/Bobby (he did an impression of him)
d. Mister Tojamura/Catherine Martell
e. Dennis/Densie Bryson
f. (Woody and name)/Andy Brennan and Dick Tremayne (when they were
     looking for Nichola "Nicky" Needleman's file)
g. Civil War characters/Benjamin Horne, Jerry Horne, Bobby Briggs,
     Audrey Horne, and Doctor Jacoby
h. Mr. and Mrs. Inkman/Mike Nelson and Nadine Hurley
i. Dr. Gerald Craig/Windham Earle
j. Edward Perkins/Windham Earle

 31.  Astrological symbols

 32.  Lumber trucks

 33.  Signs:
a. "Welcome to Twin Peaks"
b. "Twin Peaks Sheriff Station"
c. "Mar-T"/"RR Diner"
d. "The Great Northern"
e. "Twin Peaks High School"
f. "'Big' Ed's Gas Farm"
g. "The Road House"
h. "One-Eyed Jack's"
i. "Wallie's Hide-Out"
j. "The Book House"

      Also:
a. "The Bang Bang Bar"

 34.  Poetry:
a. Mike--"Fire, walk with me"/"His name is BOB"
b. BOB--"Fire, walk with me"/"I'll catch you in my death bag"
c. Shakespeare--"Shall I compare thee to..." (poetic lines from R&H)
     R&H)
d. Yeats--"Love comes in at the eye..."
e. Shelley--(fragment of "Love's Philosophy" sent by Agent Cooper
     to Caroline Powell Earle, and by Windham Earle to Audrey
     Horne, Donna Hayward, and Shelly Johnson)
f. Pete Martell--(limerick/ode to Josie)

 35.  Food:
a. Donuts at the Twin Peaks Sheriff's Station
b. Cherry pie and coffee at the RR Diner
c. Benjamin Horne and carrots

 36.  Skirts (almost all of the females in Twin Peaks and at least one
male seem to prefer them to pants)

 37.  Overlap of two faces:
a. Donna Hayward/Laura Palmer (Sarah Palmer's vision)
b. BOB/Owl (Agent Cooper's first dream sequence and BOB at Laura
     Palmer's bed)

 38.  Couples in a room with red curtains:
a. Little Man From Another Place/Laura Palmer (Agent Cooper's
     first dream sequence)
b. Mrs. Tremond/Grandson

And now, the BIG list:

There are some visual images and themes which don't seem to attract
much discussion.  I thought I'd see if I could elicit some debate by
throwing out a few observations.  So here goes...

 39.  Quick shots:
a. The tricky dissolve from the picture of Leo's truck, in
     _Flesh World_ magazine, to the actual truck (Episode 1000,
     1005).  This gave the viewer a connection between Leo and
     Ronnette long before the lawmen.
b. The connection between the flashing flourescent lights in
     the morgue, and the stobe light in the dream sequence
     (1000, 1002).
c. The ceramic figurine at Big Ed's and Nadine's place, of a
     woman wearing an eye patch (right eye) (1002, 1003).
d. The ceramic Twin Peaks train depot in the model train set in
     the window of the Twin Peaks General Store (1001).
e. Maps and books on Tibet (1002, various subsequent).
f. The "Just Say NO to Ghostwood" poster in the Double-R Diner
     (with the slash-thru-the O bit) (1004, various subsequent). 
g. The sappy arrangement of "Talk to the Animals", from "Dr.
     Doolittle", playing on the Muzak in the Lydecker Veterinary
     Clinic (1004).
h. The nice cut from the discussion, at the Palmer's house, of
     the broken heart necklace, to Emarald's necklace on
     "Invitation to Love".
i. The life-sized cardboard cutout of Emerald (or Jade?) next
     to the tray of cosmetics at the perfume counter of Horne's
     Dept. Store, the day Audrey went to work there; the
     "Invitation to Love" Collection (1004).
j. Cover your left eye whenever discussing One Eyed Jack's
     (1002, various subsequent).
k. When Audrey is told to "Pick a card", by Blackie, she
     selects a Queen of Diamonds; a much larger version of this
     same card is later sewn onto her costume (the girls use
     the cards much like numbers on a football jersey) (1007).
l. The chalkboard at the Double-R Diner proclaims the Soup of
     the Day.  It has portrayed such delicacies as Rabbit
     Chili, Split Pea and Lamb, and other yummies (2004,
     various subsequent).
m. The cut from the close up on the neon sign in front of the
     Road House, "The Bang Bang Bar", to Judge Sternwood's
     gavel, sounding "Bang Bang" inside (2005).
n. The close up of this same neon sign, "The Bang Bang Bar", is
     reflected upside down in a puddle, along with two rifle
     cartridges (2007).
o. The flashes of the police photographer's camera, at Harold
     Smith's house, punctuating the discovery of key evidence
     by the lawmen (2007).
p. The similarity of the many handballs being dribbled in the
     lobby of the Great Northern, and the many golfballs being
     pitched by Leland in his living room (2007, 2008).
q. The highly effective use of the phonograph as a presage of
     Maddy's killing by Leland (2007).  It hadn't been since
     1002, when Leland played music, danced with Laura's
     portrait, and fought over it with Sarah, breaking it and
     smearing his blood over her picture; then there's the
     incident at the funeral...
r. The amazing similarity between the Dwarf, in the dream
     sequence, and Leland, in the Great Northern lobby, when
     told of the arrest of Ben Horne.  He has his back to
     Cooper, holding a golf club in front of him with both
     hands, shivering with tears/laughter, in a foyer run riot
     with red drapes.

Many contributers have made note of various twin pairings in the
series, but little discussion has grown from the metaphor of
left-sidedness.  This assymetry is the anitithesisi of duality, or
twin-ness.  The left side is classically (literally) _sinister_ and
there are a multitude of references to this in the show, mostly through
characters bearing some deformity on the left side of their body.

 40.  Left-sided references:
a. Nadine's eyepatch, over the left eye.
b. One Eyed Jack's (1002).  The neon sign shows the right eye,
     it is missing the left one; when discussing OEJ, the
     speaker covers his own left eye in sympathy.
c. The One-Armed Man (seen earlier in 1000 than Cooper is).  He
     is, of course, missing the left arm.
d. The bandage on Big Ed's head, following his getting knocked
     out in 1000, is on the left side.
e. Shelly's bruises, courtesy of Leo, on the left side (1002).
f. Letters under the left ring fingernail (1000, various
     subsequent).
g. Tattoos ("Fire--Walk With Me") on the left arm of the OAM
     and Killer BOB (1002).
h. Leo shot in the left arm (1005).
i. Jacques Renault shot in the left arm (1007).
j. Tape concealed in heel of Leo's left boot (2007).
k. Cooper cut by left eye, by Jean Renault, lingering injury
     (2013, various subsequent).
l. Leo stabbed in left leg (2014).

The series' central duality metaphor is richly portrayed through the
constant use of twinning symbols.  I have collected a list of the more
obvious ones.

 41.  Twins, opposites, or yin-yang pairs:
a. The two ledgers for the mill, maintained by Catherine.
b. Twin Peaks versus "Invitation to Love".
c. The two sets of $10,000 (one of which was held by Laura, the
     other half had been paid to Leo).
d. The two brands of twine used to bind the victims, Laura and
     Ronette.
e. The two poker chips (one from Jacque's cabin, with the notch
     in Laura's stomach, the one in Ben's pants pocket).
f. The two Queen of Diamonds playing cards, from Audrey's debut
     at One Eyed Jack's (the one Audrey picked out of the deck
     offered by Blackie, and the matching large one sewn onto
     her costume by the hunchbacked seamstress).
g. The two diaries of Laura Palmer
h. The two safe deposit keys (Ben and Josie, holding blackmail
     evidence for protection from each other (2006).
i. Dennis/Denise Bryson (2011).
j. Jade and Emerald, from ITL (1003, various subsequent).
k. Laura and Maddy versus Jade and Emerald (1003).
l. Laura's double life.
m. Josie's double life.
n. Audrey's double life (1000).
o. The White Lodge and the Black Lodge.
p. Iceland versus Twin Peaks (treeless tundra and verdent
     forests).
q. The broken-heart necklace.
r. Leo's and Andy's new shoes (bought from Gerard).
s. The beating of Chet by Montana (ITL) versus Leo beating
     Shelly.
t. The shooting of Montana by Chet (ITL) versus Shelly shooting
     Leo (redux with Hank shooting Leo).
u. Hank's 3x3 domino.
v. Jacque' 3x3 pair of dice bow-tie dangles.
w. The two tapes used to blackmail Ben Horne (Bobby's copy of
     Leo's tape from the riverside meeting, and Pete's tape of
     Catherine, back from the dead) (2008).
x. Vivian and Ernie versus Norma and Hank (both wives to
     convicts but have no idea just how dangerous they are).
y. Blue Pine Lodge versus Great Northern.
z. The two cabins (the Log Lady's and Jacque's).
       aa. Pete's snake/mongoose trophy.
       bb. Laura and Cooper having the same dream.
       cc. The Dwarf and the Giant.
       dd. The Double-R Diner.
       ee. Characters with physical similarities:
     i. Ben and Leland.
    ii. Sarah and Sylvia.
   iii. Audrey and Donna.
    iv. James and Bobby.
     v. Norma and Shelly (especially after the beauty parlor
  visit).
    vi. Laura and Maddy (same actress).
   vii. Jade and Emerald (each of these pairs having a same
  actress).
       ff. Characters with opposing characteristics:
     i. Doc Hayward and Major Briggs
    ii. Hank and Big Ed.
   iii. Cooper and Albert.
    iv. Donna and Audrey.
     v. Laura and Maddy.
    vi. Laura and Laura.
   vii. Laura and Donna.
  viii. Mike (owl) and Killer BOB.
    ix. Ben and Leland.
     x. Bobby and James.
       gg. Characters with similar characteristics, differing in
     intensity:
     i. Leo and Hank.
    ii. Mike and Bobby.
   iii. Andy and Harry.
    iv. Catherine and Ben.
     v. Laura and Ronette.
    vi. Laura and Josie.
   vii. Donna and Harold Smith.
       hh. Characters with other miscellaneous duality symbols:
     i. Lucy and Gwen having babies.
    ii. Lucy's baby having two potential fathers (Andy and Dick).
   iii. Dennis/Denise Bryson

These pairings symbolize twins of one kind or another in furtherance of
the central duality metaphor.  In Leland Palmer, we have the kindly
family man and ethical, responsible businessman, in contrast to Ben
Horne, the scheming, double-dealing, faithless, amoral criminal.  To
futher reinforce their kinship, their wives Sarah and Sylvia also share
a physical resemblance.  We have James Hurley, the not-too-bright,
unimaginative, well-meaning, leather-jacketed kid, versus Bobby, the
highly intelligent, ambitious, opportunistic, crooked, sociopathic
leather-jacketed kid.  We have Norma, the confident, strong-willed,
unselfish, stoic yet world-weary woman, to Shelly's weak, dependent,
clinging insecurity--the self-made punching bag.  Donna, the sweet,
naive, girl next door, and Audrey, the ambitious, calculating,
manipulative seductress.  Laura, who was leading a double life, and
hence, her own twin.  Maddy, the child-like, sheltered, simple,
look-alike cousin, versus Laura's sophisticated life as a woman.

There are also some twins in which the outward physical appearance is
not obvious.  Big Ed versus Hank--strength applied to good or evil.
Major Briggs, the uptight authority figure; Doc Hayward, the laid-back
authority figure.  New in this episode, The Giant contrasts with The
Little Man from Another Place.  Also in tonight's episode, we get a
clear image of Albert as Cooper's twin.  When Albert grimaces at the
coffee in the hospital scene with Big Ed, it sends the message: he
doesn't even like the coffee.

Let's take inventory.  Cooper tries to find the good in everyone he
meets.  he derives pleasure from every sensory experience, particularly
new experiences.  Coffee is his most singular vice.  His investigative
technique is positively right-brained, holistic, inductive.  Above all
else, he cares.  Albert, of course, doesn't seem to like anybody he
meets; most sensory input is likely to be perceived negatively; new
experience is an utter inconvenience.  his investigative technique is
classic left-brained, analytic, deductive, factually contrived.  He
doesn't seem to care at all about people, only whatever fits his veiw
of logic and theory.

These, of course, are all yin-yang pairings.  There are also twins in
the same-same direction.  Ben and Catherine, Leo and Hank, Harry and
Andy.  These twins differ only in intensity.  Another example, perhaps
Josie and Laura (both seem to have led a double life).

Recall that the principle of duality is also reinforced throughout the
show by such dopplegangers as "Invitation to Love", the soap within the
soap, and the characters Emerald and Jade; the vrey names, Twin Peaks
and Double-R; the two murders, linked by the letters of the alphabet;
the two recent victims, Ronette and Laura, one alive and one dead; the
two cabins in the wood, Jacque's and the Log Lady's, both of which led
to important clues to the crime; the two sets of books at the mill; the
two poker chips; the Blue Pine Lodge versus the Great Northern; the
treeless expanse of Iceland versus the Douglas firs of Twin Peaks.

The antithesis of duality is asymmetry.  So, we have the constant
reinforcement of charactes bearing some deformity on the left side: the
One-Armed Man; Killer BOB and Mike having tattoos on the left arm; the
letters found under the left ring fingernail of the victims; Nadine's
eyepatch; Big Ed's bandage; Shelly's bruises; Leo and Jacque each shot
in the left arm.  Jacoby wears bi-colored glasses, Leo shot in the left
side of the chest in the cliffhanger episode, mirrored by Chet, in
"Invitation to Love", being shot in the same place, while Leo watches,
bleeding.

Against this backdrop is another layer of duality, never directly
addressed and only hinted at.  But the clues, while obscure, are
numerous and consistent.  Recall the many references to the woods:
logging trucks, wind-blown trees, the Log Lady's log, the Book House
Boys, the knotty pine decor at the Great Northern, the economic
lifeblood of the sawmill.  These are generally positive images.  In
contrst we have endless closeups of fireplaces.  There's the mill fire.
The obscure message, "Fire, walk with me."  The Log Lady said, "Fire is
the Devil, hiding like a coward in the smoke."  Her husband was killed
fighting a fire.  She also said, "Close your eyes and you'll burst into
flames."  James said Laura told him of BOB, asking, "Do you want to
play with fire?"  The man that lights Laura's fire.  The town's key
intersection, the pivot point of many key events, is "Sparkwood and
21", dual symbology again.

The foundation of the community is wood, and fire a manifestation of
things which threaten that community.  The central essence of the
series, the murder of Laura Palmer, brings her into focus as the
cneterpiece in the balance (or struggle) between good and evil.  Her
double life was the direct result of good and evil tearing her in half.
She lived a constant juggling act, deperately trying to maintain
distance between the two.  As long as she lived, the balance was
maintained.  But as Jacoby said, she ultimately reached the decision to
end that life.  The pressure must have been enormous.  As Jacoby said
earlier, everytime she tried to do good, it turned bad; she corrupted
everything around her.  She was forever tainted by her assigned role in
life.  And after her death, the delicate balance was broken, leading to
an onrush of tragendy, culminating in the cliffhanger episode.  The
community is still in a violent process of re-equalizing these twin
forces.

We can further extrapolate this idea to postulate the identity of
Killer BOB.  The Log Lady referred several times to the owls.  The
Giant said, "The owls are not what they seem."  No one has seen Killer
BOB in real life, except for perhaps Ronette; Cooper and Sarah,
independently, saw him only in visions.  The idea of fire as a symbol
of evil, the references to owls, and the other spiritual allusions in
the show, are all consistent with the notion that Killer BOB is in fact
the Devil himself, and that the killer, in the physical sense, has yet
to be identified.  Woever he was, he was merely an agent of the Devil.
The Devil slowly wore Laura Palmer down, until she could no longer
fight.  Now, he's been set loose. 
--
Jeff "Koganuts" Koga              1) "The 'Star Wars' Trilogy" by John Williams
Internet: 6600koga@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu        2)"Dances with Wolves" by John Barry
Bitnet: 6600koga@ucsbuxa.bitnet          3) "Star Trek II:TWoK" by James Horner
Recommended CDs:      4) "Soundtrack from '^Twin Peaks^'" by Angelo Baladamenti

I like the hint of parallelism someone suggested earlier in which WE
stareted out good, got involved with the black lodge, went crazy, and
killed his wife and now Cooper is beginning on the same path; but doesn't that
imply that if Cooper is possessed by Bob than WE was too?  I think WE is just
evilly insane on his own.

I also liked the parallels pointed out concerning the Lucy, Richard, Andy
and baby story and the [Mrs Hayward], Ben, Doc and Donna story--if only
because it gives some reason for putting up with the irritation of this
latter plot line.  Recall, however, that Ben being the father of Donna has
never been explicitely confirmed.  Speaking of confirmation do we know for
sure whether Cooper's love for Caroline was ever requited, let 
alone consumated?

--
Laurel Smith Stvan stvan@casbah.acns.nwu.edu

In article <1991Jun13.221800.19634@edsr.eds.com> jamii@edsr.eds.com (Jamii K. Corley) writes:

> > I also noticed WE's pale face and black teeth. My first thought was he'd 
> >been out experimenting with this and that to get into the Black Lodge. Who
> >knows what sort of nasty things he'd been eating. I wondered if it might not
> >have been whatever was in the sack. This was a chilling thought after we
> >found out about the spiders. 

Hey, if you've never eaten tarantulas, don't knock it.  Great with
cheese sauce, and their little shells are crunchy!  Best served
live--they wriggle a bit on the way down though.  My friend Carl once
likened them to "furry bitching spaghetti."


Hi Wendy.

-- Rod Johnson * rjohnson@vela.acs.oakland.edu * (313) 650 2315 "All wax is wedding wax" --Gertrude Stein

Hi, Rocky - This continues the thread about various symbols on the
Petroglyph map.  It didn't look like any amount of editing would leave
it short *and* intelligible, so hopefully anyone who's interested has
read the old postings and has memory (better than mine!).  I'll probably
just keep a couple of recent comments...

I looked at the symbol to the left of the trees in the Guide, and see why
you saw it as the pool - those lips on the side do look like edges of a
small pool, and the wavy lines between the black & white portions look kind
of liquidy.  Of course, they also look kind of curtainy...

I wonder if that symbol might, in fact, be both the pool *and* the entrance.
The Log Lady's oil may be what is floating in the pool, and it is
*supposed* to be an entrance.  I originally didn't think of it as the pool,
simply because it wasn't within the ring of trees.  However, I'm not
really sure if spatial organization means very much in this "map".

I've never been able to make what seemed like the obvious features on
the Petroglyph Map align with that area map on the back of the Guide,
though I must confess I was trying like the dickens to get the falls
to line up.  I think the beginning of the Guide tells you which two
peaks the town is named for (damn, I wish I had it here with me, again).
But in any event, I was never able to get just the two mountains and the
falls to arrange themselves in any reasonable way.  (Incidentally, what
we've all been calling the "falls" on the petroglyph might also be seen
as a curtain... sheesh!)  Despite WE's claim to have made such an
alignment (I've framecaptured that image, and you can't really see the
underlying area map in any detail at all), I kind of think that there's
more artistic license than careful attention to detail at work here.

Hee hee... just had a thought... I think if you assumed that the petroglyph
map was reversed left-to-right, then you might be able to place the
circle of trees off to the east (your posting kept saying west when I think
you really meant east), and better help the alignment of the mountains and
the falls.  So either the artist hired to inscribe the original petroglyph
reversed a transparency somewhere along the line, or the Lodge members
who drew it did so on the "back" of the rock (from the other side of the
plane between mystical and physical dimensions).  :-) :-) :-)

I'll take a look at the Guide map again, and try to make the alignment you
suggested.
-- -larryy@apple.com "You wouldn't recognize a *subtle plan* if it painted itself purple, and danced naked upon a harpsichord, singing, 'Subtle Plans are Here Again'." - Edmund Blackadder

In article <1991Jun11.212725.19036@zip.eecs.umich.edu>, welcher@eecs.umich.edu (James Welcher) writes:
..
> > 
> > Regardless, I was a good run.  I'm hoping for a movie, just
> > because I really wanna know what happened to the vanishing CREAM CORN
> > KID!!!

When Harold Smith died with that french quote about his soul pinned to his
chest, I thought it indicated the creamed corn kid was some sort of alternate
spirit or younger version of Harold Smith that came to Donna like the giant
comes/came (it's sad to use the past tense here) Coop.  Was this discussed
before or does anyone have any other theories about who he or old Ms. Tremond
(maybe Tree-monde) were?

- Vanya J Cooper, Pima Community College, District Computer Services -
  Internet: vcooper@pimacc.pima.edu
  Paper: 2202 West Anklam Road, Tucson, Arizona 85709 USA
  Voice: 602 884-6809

= Maybe Coop should just floss instead =

In article <1991Jun13.192850.8862@watson.ibm.com> rubin@watson.ibm.com (Bill Rubin) writes:
> >In  <20438@sdcc6.ucsd.edu>  orovner@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Oleg Rovner) writes:
>> >> 7. How many of you ever watch ABC? Now, how many will be
>> >> watching once Peaks is gone? Oh yeah, "perfect strangers" and
>> >> "who's the boss" are on top of MY list. So, how about letting
>> >> ABC just how many viewers they lost with the cancellation, not
>> >> just less viewing hours, but less real live viewers.
> >
> >Unless your TV doesn't have any way of changing channels, and you were
> >leaving it on ABC the rest of the time just so you could watch TP, how are
> >you going to convince them that you're going to watch it less now than you
> >did with TP, with the obvious exception of that one hour a week.  Were you
> >watching the other shows because you thought ABC was so great to give you
> >TP?  TV ratings points are not based on how many people watch a station in a
> >given week, they are based on the specific time slot.
> >
> >-- Bill rubin@watson.ibm.com

ABC isn't bad, as far as the three BIG networks go. I mean, honestly, I used
to be an NBC guy.. I liked the NBC shows the best. But now I like ABC better.
Honestly, even though they axed what I consider two of the best shows of all
time (Twin Peaks, and the BEST show ever, "Max Headroom"), the fact is that
they did put them on the air. and they gave both of them a second-season
committment-- something I really do find commendable. After all, their ratings
were not GREAT, and it was clear (to me at least) that they weren't going to
do any better... but ABC took the chance.

Now, this is not to defend the ratings system. I think that Twin Peaks has a
big following, one that doesn't translate well when it comes to the way that
A.C. Nielsen measures ratings. But I think it's out there.

One other thing about ABC: they do have, IMHO, some of the best TV on the air.
When the new schedule came out, I jumped for joy (well, not literally) when I
found they were bringing "Anything But Love" back. We lost Twin Peaks, but at
least one "marginal" show (and a damned fine one) is coming back. And I also
find "Wonder Years" and "Doogie Howser, M.D." superior shows, too. (Is this
blasphemy? Twin Peaks was #1 (or 2, depending on how much I like ST:TNG) in my
heart, swear to god, a.tv.tp'ers...) So perhaps ABC is just the lesser of two
evils, and I'm afraid that Twin Peaks was TV the likes of which will NEVER
pass this way again, at least on a major US network.

Anyway, I can see why ABC killed TP. It didn't perform in the ratings, and
that's how they make their money. I can't see that the ratings would ever get
better. What TP needs is a medium where it can be financially healthy.. if it
can be that overseas, then Lynch/Frost should just keep makin' them, and
syndicate it. If a movie will bring in bucks, go for it. But -- honestly -- if
I were running ABC, I'd have cancelled it. BUT-- I would have offered them a
TV movie. And if I were running CBS, I'd call and offer 'em money to put it on
at 11:30 p.m. once a week.... 

So don't attack ABC too much. They're putting out better stuff than the other
networks, at least right now. Did you see CBS' schedule this year? Eeeawwwgh..

-jason

-- Jason Snell / jsnell@ucsd.edu / University of California, San Diego "There's nothing quite like urinating out in the open air" - Dale Cooper

In article <1991Jun13.070243.3602@netcom.COM> dawn@netcom.COM (Darragh Nagle) writes:
> >
> >(Found in the trash bin behind Lynch/Frost productions:)
> >
> >The finale - Version 4 
> >
> >Bob is standing beside the entrance to the Black Lodge. Andy comes up to
> >him with a cup of coffee. Andy trips, falls, spills the coffee onto Bob.
> >
> >Bob:I'm MELTING!!!!! MELTING!!!! AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhh
> >
> >Bob disappears into the oily puddle.
> >
> >Andy:Well, I guess good always triumphs over evil!
> >
> >Cooper walks up.
> >
> >Coop:Good work Andy!

<stuff deleted>

Call me a romantic fool, but I absolutely love your ending script.  
A happy ending, and yet totally weird, in true Lynchian fashion.
Now, if you rearrange the letters in "Darragh Nagle", you get...

Stop toying with us Mark and David!  We are not fooled by your
silly nom-de-plumes, located at phony companies with generic
names like Netcom!  If you are going to tantalize us with a happy
ending, why didn't you just do one, rather than Coopleganger us?

Just kidding...
-- Mark Sweiger Sequent Computer Systems Database Software Engineer 15450 SW Koll Parkway Office: (503)578-4329 Beaverton, Oregon 97006-6063 FAX: (503)578-7569 sweiger@sequent.com

References: <11947@hub.ucsb.edu> <DAN.91Jun8162125@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu> <DAN.91Jun9220724@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu>
Organization: Auburn University Engineering
Message-ID: <donaldm.910614005429@weber.eng.auburn.edu>
Date: Fri Jun 14 00:54:29 CDT 1991


Can anyone tell me the quote from Marcus Aurelius that Jonathan says to
Audrey?

BTW, Can anyone tell me the Marcus Aurelius quote spoken by Hannibal
Lector in The_Silence_of_the_Lambs (I posted this to r.a.movies but
never got a response).

DM

O.K., so this has been said a million times this weeks by a million 
different people, but the Twin Peaks finale(?) requires comment:

Was it just me, or did the whole Windham Earle thing seem to run into
a giant brick wall, or more specifically, into Bob?  As much of an insipid
overdone loser as he was, I was expecting a touch more from the ole
Earlster.  Instead he's sucked into Bob like lint to a dustbuster.
Bummer.  I was hoping for something--well, I don't know--more.  Just more.
The last hour was nothing more than a cop-out.  Lynch screwed his fans in
a big way.  We *knew* there wouldn't be a happy ending, we didn't want or
expect one, and maybe Audrey *should* have blown up, but it was all so
crammed into it's own prentension.  And it didn't make any fu*king sense!

A good move to put Coop into Bob, or vice versa, and not entirely unexpected.
Still a rush job, though.  It seemed more like a 'fuck you TV-land' from 
Lynch than anything else.  It was like, okay, they loooved Agent Cooper, our
boy, the symbol of purity and all that crap, but they cancelled my show, so
let's see who he rapes and kills now.  And by the way, how's Annie?  I don't
buy it.  Lynch with a grudge is scarier than Coop wanting to brush his teeth.
Great imagery looking himself in the mirror, perhaps the best that's 
hit television ever.  It's not like I thought anything would even be 
resolved--but I think Lynch owed something to his audience that he didn't
deliver.  He's not perfect.  The vision (IMHO) is not complete.  He let
us down.  I'm not going to cross my fingers for the movie to be anything
better--if I've learned anything from _Twin Peaks_, it's that you can't
expect Lynch to come through.  If he does, fine, that's great--he certainly
has the ability to shine, but don't expect it.

David Balcom 
Fairfax, VA

I managed to tape 2 hours of whatever a local PBS affiliate was
broadcasting, and promised my poor nightschool sister that I would
somehow try to make it up to her.  She was doing differential
equations with calculus while The Peaked were glued (some netters
must've had keyboards at their side, seering criticisms leeping forth
from their fingers even as they remained transfixed...)

Could anyone loan me a tape of the final episode?  I'll dub it and
return it immediately with some fine chocolates or what have you.

I'm in Mountain View CA (not far from San Francisco) but out-of-town
UPS would be great too, if the world is still graced by kind-hearted
gentle trusting souls.

Marianne
mrmu@leland.stanford.edu or zmail@well.sf.ca.us

p.s. I haven't read the 468 articles posted since the show, but my
feeling is that Annie is one hell of a woman and I say, Annie git yer
gun!  Annie may be able to take care of herself and Coop too, for that
matter.  Lynch has been seen to make the odd feminist (for lack of a
less abused word) point.

From article <1991Jun13.185024.2498@odin.corp.sgi.com>, by sjohnson@texas.vlsi.sgi.com (Scott Johnson):

> In <ABC1B3FF00A00BB3@ulkyvx.bitnet> RMDELC01@ulkyvx.BITNET (Rose Marie Delckum) writes:
>
>
>
>
> I get the feeling that if he stepped out of one room for a second
> then stepped back in it, it would be totally different. i.e. I
> don't think you can map a place such as the Black Lodge, just as
> I doubt there is a map of heaven.
>
> sj

That's what I thought too. Spinnoff of the Shroedinger's Cat theory.
(sp?) Basically, when you're not looking at the room, it doesn't
exist, therefore, each time you look at it, it could be different.

That or the fourth-dimensional theory, a location through time, that
the room changes as it travels through time ana...

Greg

-- 
Socrates: "I drank WHAT????"
LMFAP: "Next time you see me, it won't be me."
Wubba: "A dream is nothing more than a wish dipped in chocolate and sprinkled
with a little imagination." (From my poem, "A Dream") -Wubba

I have read most of the postings on the finale - it sure sounds like a turn up
for the books.

The subject of this posting is to plead that a generous soul will post the
complete details of the final episode to the newsgroup, as there are many
people such as I in Australia, that have not yet seen it.

Actually, I am begging more than pleading. Twin Peaks is the most interesting
show I have seen, and has a huge following downunder. Unfortunately we have
only just seen the death of Leland, and cannot wait to find out what happens.

Thanx in advance.

H. Lecter.
Australian National University.

Would someone please post the complete happenings of the finale, so that
viewers in other countries can find out what lies ahead.

Cannot wait for the series to conclude here.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE    HELP

Frank Smith
Sydney University
Australia.

In article <1991Jun14.065711.2608@leland.Stanford.EDU>,
 mrmu@leland.Stanford.EDU (Marianne Mueller) writes:

   I managed to tape 2 hours of whatever a local PBS affiliate was
   broadcasting, and promised my poor nightschool sister that I would
   somehow try to make it up to her. . . .

   [sob story deleted]

   Could anyone loan me a tape of the final episode?  I'll dub it and
   return it immediately with some fine chocolates or what have you.

You'd think that people smart enough to figure out rn and Pnews could
figure out how to program their VCR's.  

:)

--
David G. PaschichOpen Computing FacilityUC Berkeley
dpassage@ocf.berkeley.edu
"But I'd rather be a fish, 'cause a fish is an animal" -- Gener Fox

Well, we've heard enough theories to last a life-time.
Herein I'll give a more detailed "script" of the black lodge
sequence, with just a few comments here and there.

Anyway, much of this is impossible to make coherent (the maps,
that is).  I attribute the "errors" not to continuity problems
but just to the fact that Lynch doesn't care--not that the
black lodge is in the mind, or dreamlike, but just that Lynch
didn't bother to spend time making it topological; not for
symbolic reasons, but just because he doesn't care.  I've long
held Lynch as a director who does weird things for their own
sake, not for symbolic reasons.  But that is my prejudice.

Before I do the black lodge sequence, here's two other bits.


Ben and Donna's mother waiting downstairs, words fly;

BH:Donna, it isn't your parents fault, it's mine.
D:My parents?  Who are my parents anyway?!
BH:I only wanted to do good.  I wanted to be good.  And it
  felt so good to tell the truth.  After all these years.

{It seems to me that this *is* BH confirming it; he says,
 'it *felt* so good', past tense, as if he has told Donna
 the truth, that is, she's right, and he hasn't denied it.}


At the bank (this actually happens after the beginning black lodge stuff)

Thomas Eckhart is not wearing glasses, nor visibly carrying any.
The glasses that go flying are not his; if they were, Lynch would
have at least shown them somewhere during the sequence.

Nobody has commented on the joke on Audrey; she didn't chain the
bank door shut, which would normally be the whole point of this
sort of disobedience (disrupt the normal flow of things).

The vault looks like this:

  ====== - Audrey - ======
    /
XX    / path taken by Dell et al
XX      /
!      /
!XX____/
!XX    /
!    /XX
!  /XX
! !
!\!/
+----------------------------------

Audrey watches them walk back, then closes the door again mostly.
When Dell is called back out, Andrew quickly opens the door;
Dell couldn't have gotten much further than where Audrey is.
We get a shot of the inside of the box: the note says,

Got you, Andrew
    Love,
Thomas

We get a reaction shot of Andrew and Pete (Andrew scared, Pete puzzled),
then a shot of an explosion in the box, coming outwards; reaction
shot of Andrew & Pete brightly lit fade to white; outside the bank,
two windows and the door blow out with a lot of smoke, but the near
window frame is relatively intact afterwards; Dell's glasses fly
through the air.


The Black Lodge sequence.

Speech is indicated with the character's initials at the left.  Actions
occur tabbed in one; camera directions are tabbed in two, although only
some are provided; descriptions are also tabbed in two.  My comments
appear in { } for "factual" comments, {( )} for subjective comments.

cast: 
DC: Dale Cooper
LM: LMFAP, Little Man From Another Place
LP: Laura Palmer
G:  Giant
M:  Maddy
C:  Caroline
A:  Annie
WE: Windom Earle

Coop leans over shining flashlight on "puddle".
DC:  An opening to a gateway.
  {( Sounds like *he* thought it was oil. )}
Coop walks through the curtain, still caryying flashlight.
Looking down a red-curtained hallway, with a statue
of Venus at the far end.  Floor has a red & white
striped zigzag pattern, running left and right.
Coop emerges near left, no longer carrying flashlight.
Coop walks down hallway, exits far right.
Looking across a square room:
+----------------E--+ where coop first enters
!            !
!     o++    ! small table, "coop's chair"
!         o  ! lamp
!        ]   ! LMFAP's chair
!        ]s  ! other chair, statue
!         o  ! lamp
!    !
!    !
+--D----------------+
Zigzag pattern across floor "vertically" (in this diagram),
consistent with hallway.
Coop emerges from "E".
Lights out, strobe light; floor looks black & white in the
strobe.
LMFAP comes out in close shot from D (although you can't tell that),
{Notice how curtains fall behind him instead of being pushed out in front}
with spotlight shining on him; as he dances forward, lights come
back up but strobe remains on.
Coop reaction shot, back to downward shot on LMFAP.
LMFAP dances across room by someone (turns out to be lounge singer)
wearing black pants.
LMFAP looks at Coop, then sits.  LMFAP turns to look at singer.
Singer sings with poor lip-synching (although it doesn't appear to
be backwards).
LMFAP looks at Coop during lines "I'll see you in the trees."
At end of song, curtains behind singer are backlit.
Singer fades out.

[commercial break]
[various stuff; bank scene; RR Diner scene]

SP {own voice + slowed voice}:  I'm in the Black Lodge with Agent Cooper.
Camera moves down curtained corridor, no statue at end.
someone:  I'm waiting for you. [Too low pitch for LMFAP, but not BOB either]

[commercial break]

Coop has taken his seat.
LM: When you see me again, it won't be me.
LMFAP gets up, rubs foot on floor as if to kill insect or
put out a cigarette; sits back down.
{(I think this is just one of many 'this looks neat backwards' things)}
LM: This is the waiting room.
LM smiles.
LM: Would you like some coffee?
LM smiles, then grins mischeviously.
LM: Some of your friends are here.
{Very badly pronounced; sounds like 'a rear' not 'are here'}
Cooper's eyes follow someone walk across the room as we hear
heels walk across.
Laura Palmer sits next to LMFAP, but sitting on edge of seat
facing Cooper.
LMFAP turns to face LP.
Close-up on LP; her eyes are clear.
LP: Hello, agent Cooper.
LP winks backwards.  LP holds out hand, then snaps backwards.
{(Another 'neat backwards' thing or two.)}
LP: I'll see you again in 25 years.
    Meanwhile.
LP "strikes a pose".
Change of camera angle; LP is gone.
Cooper looks at LMFAP, then away, then back, then away:
SDC is sitting next to LMFAP, holding coffee cup.
LMFAP gets a surprised look while looking at Cooper's face.
SDC: Wooh! woo-woo-woo-woo ("indian" whooping noise).
LMFAP turns to look at SDC.
     Hallelujah. [to LMFAP]
LM:  Hallelujah. [to SDC]
SDC struggles out of chair, and walks slowly to Cooper:
SDC: Coffee.  Coffee.  Coffee.  Coffee.  Coffee.  Coffee.
Cooper looks down in direction of cup, then back.
Giant stands stiff and straight where SDC had just been.
Giant walks back over to chair and sits down.
Camera has both LMFAP and Giant in frame; each of their
heads are equally left-of-center and right-of-center
respectively, and the Giant's head is as near the top
of the screen as the LMFAP's is near the bottom; that is,
they are nearly equals while showing their vast difference.
G:  One and the same.  [Sounds more like 'tha' then 'the']
Reaction shot of Cooper, then the Giant is gone.
LMFAP rubs hand, looks odd backwards (counter-clockwise).
Cooper plays with gooey coffee.  At end, LMFAP begins talking;
camera cuts to him a third of the way through speech:
LM: Wow, Bob, wow.
    Fire walk with me.
Shot of billowing fire.
Beginning of a backwards LP scream.
Lights out, strobe on.
Cooper looks around, apparently seeing nothing out of ordinary,
gets up.
In new angle, we see LMFAP has disappeared.
Cooper walks in direction LMFAP came in, *not* in the direction
he came in.
Back to a hall, Cooper walking same direction as last
time; no strobe lighting.  (All scene changes are to
normal lit scenes unless otherwise indicated).
+-----------------------------+
!S  ^----------------------v  ! <--camera
+-----------------------------+
Cooper enters on the right of this diagram, and walks to the left.
Cooper parts curtain, and looks in.  He sees an identical room,
from the point of view of 'E' (exactly the same as where he came
in to the first room).
Cooper retraces his steps in the hallway from the same camera angle.
Cooper enters "first" room (no strobe) from D (where he had left).
LMFAP is back in his seat.
LM: [pointing at Coop?] Wrong way.
Cooper leaves again, we see him walk right-to-left again from
same camera angle.  Reenters "second" room, but now he's at
position D in it.
LMFAP laughs.
Cooper reaction shot.
LMFAP walks to chair, sits, laughing whole time.
LM: Another friend.
LMFAP gets back up, walks behind chair, while we see a female
silhouette walking across, on original diagram would be above
the top, walking left-to-right, to emerge at E.
As Maddy emerges at E, LMFAP hides behind chair.  Maddy is
wearing the same dress that Laura was.
{Maddy pulls the curtain closed behind her.  Imagine it backwards.}
Can't see Maddy's eyes close enough.
M:  I'm Maddy.  Watch out for my cousin.
{(There seems to be no reason to interpret "cousin" other than literally,
  considering who appears next.)}
Cooper turns to walk away; Maddy fades out; Cooper looks back
over his shoulder.
Cooper walks back down the hallway left-to-right, same camera
angle, the statue still there, and goes through the curtain.
The room is now empty but the curtains are back-lit.
Cooper enters, walks into the middle of the room, looks down to
his left.
LM: Doppelganger.
{The LMFAP is oriented wrong relative to where Cooper is, the direction
 Cooper looked, and the floor diagonal tiling.}
Cooper looks 45 degrees to his left (roughly towards E).
Laura Palmer, now with glowing light blue eyes, is
striking the same pose.
LP: Meanwhile...
Spotlight on Laura, lights fade, strobes come on.
Laura screams backwards.
Camera jumps back to show Laura on a "two-way" chair.
Laura screams twice while backing up over the chair.
Laura screams as she charges the camera (and Cooper).
A flash of Windom Earle, orange-or-natural lit as opposed
to the white spotlight.
Cooper turns and runs out.
Laura screams again.
Hallway, same camera angle.
Cooper walks "right-to-left" again (to room "2").
Cooper enters room, but we never see it; partway in, he looks down,
sees blood on his hands and chest; he moves, and we see a trail
of blood from where he came in.
Cooper turns around and stumbles out.
Cooper walks slowly against the curtains to his left down the hall.
The camera starts close up, on the right in the diagram;
there is no longer any statue.  Partway down, it switches
to behind Cooper.  As he's just about to enter, it switches
back to the original position for a closup.
Cooper enters, closeup on him.
DC: Caroline
Caroline and Cooper are lying on the floor, bloody.
Reaction shot of Cooper.
Annie and Cooper are lying on the floor, bloody, Annie
wearing Caroline's dress.
DC: Annie [whispered]
    Annie!
Annie sits up, looks around blindly.
DC: Annie
Lights out, strobe on, empty floor
{The floor even looks red & white with the strobe on this time.}
DC: Annie? [whispered, like in 'where are you?']
Hallway, camera slowly moving down the hallway, noone in
shot.  (And no statue)
We hear footsteps as we go.
DC: Annie?
    Annie? [whispered]
From inside, we see Cooper's shadow walk up to entrance.
Cooper enters.  Looks around the room, apparently seeing nothing.
Closeup of Annie, wearing pageant dress, normal eyes.
A:  Dale.
    I saw the face of the man who killed me.
Shot of Cooper.
DC: Annie? [whispered]
Cooper shakes his head.
DC: The face of the man who killed you?
Side view; Cooper has his left hand on Annie's right arm.
A:  It was my husband.
DC: Annie? [whispered]
A:  Who's Annie?
Cooper reaction shot.
C: [out of shot] It's me.
Shot of Caroline, over the shoulder.
C:  It's me.
    It's me.
DC: Caroline.
Side view, Annie in Caroline's dress.
A:  You must be mistaken.  I'm alive.
Annie reaches her left hand up to touch Cooper's face.
Cooper does a triple take.
Over Cooper's shoulder shot of glazed-eye Laura.
Laura screams.  After she stops, Cooper jolts, a little late.
And now it's Windom Earle.
WE stares at Cooper, then smiles.
WE: Dale Cooper.
Shot of a curtain.  Annie fades in wearing the pageant
dress.  Jump back to a shot of Annie in the middle,
back to the curtain, while in the middle of the room
WE frames her on the left, Cooper on the right.
WE and Cooper turn to look at Annie.
Close-up on Annie, and her pleading, doe-like eyes.
Annie fades out.  Back to same side view of WE and Cooper.
WE turns to Cooper and laughs.
{WE's laugh is "double-backwards"; it sounds almost like a normal laugh.}
WE: If you give me your soul, I'll let Annie live.
DC: [slowly] I will.
Over Cooper's shoulder of gleeful, then purposeful WE.
Back to side view.
WE swings a knife up into Cooper, who is pulled forward by the
blow, and then falls backwards, out of shot.
{(leaving WE holding the knife far to vertically for my tastes.)}
Billowing flame is crossfaded with the image, and then
the sequence repeats backwards:
Cooper comes up from the floor onto the knife, leans backwards
as WE pulls it out of him then they both "relax".
Lights out, strobe comes on.
We see Bob is grabbing WE by the back of the neck.
Bob laughs grossly backwards.
WE begins a long drawn-out scream.
BOB: Be quiet.
WE ends his scream.
BOB: Be quiet.
Bob laughs strangely backwards, turns to Cooper.
BOB: You go.
     He is wrong.
     He can't ask you for your soul.
     I will take his.
WE screams.
Cooper reaction.
Shot of WE and Bob.
Bob pulls his hand up away from WE.  A column of flame
"bursts" "upwards" from WE's head, then is sucked down
into it, followed by a reverse explosion into it, followed
by Bob grabbing his neck again.  WE is no longer moving
at all; his head is bent down.

Cooper turns around and leaves, we see his silhouette
disappear as Bob laughs.

On the other side, we see a hunched-over figure's silhouette
coming along to the other entrance; as the person emerges
he spins around in the curtains for a bit, and then hurries
up to Bob.  It is a glazed-eyes Cooper, and he laughs with
Bob.

In the hallway, the camera is now at the "left" end on the
diagram, and Cooper emerges from the near end and walks
towards the far end, but stops part way when Leland (with
normal hair) emerges from the middle of the curtain on
Cooper's left.

Close-up of Leland with glazed-over eyes.

L:  I did not kill anybody.
Cooper walks past Leland, who walks up close to him as he
goes by.
{(As if in "reverse" Leland was getting out of Cooper's way.)}
Cooper pauses as he's about to go through, turns back
and sees Cooper-2 stick his head out from the end near
the camera.
Camera is now at the other end, close to Cooper.
Leland is looking at Cooper, smiling, and at the
other end is the Cooper-2.
Cooper goes through the curtain.  Leland turns to Cooper-2
frowning.  Cooper-2 walks up to Leland, smiling.  Leland
begins laughing.  Cooper-2 grins and walks up to the curtain,
turns partway to the camera.
Cooper-2 seems not to have glazed eyes, possibly
because they could only afford one set, or they
forgot to process it, or however they did it.

Cooper-2 goes through curtain.


Cooper traverses this path, hurriedly: (c = camera)
   
+--^------------+
!  .....<....  c!
+------------.--+
!    .  c!
!  .! <-- this room is strobe-lit
!.!     this room is empty
!     .!     this room has zig-zags going the wrong way
!   .!
+--.------------+
c   ....<.....!
+------------.--+
  cooper

Cooper-2 runs through the strobe-lit room from the same camera
angle, although half way across the camera switches to behind
him--except, wait, this room has the zig-zags going the right
way again.

Cooper runs down a corridor with the camera behind him
(same shot as last corridor shot), but halfway down Cooper-2
appears behind him.  Cooper runs through the curtain with
Cooper-2 in hot pursuit.

Shot of original waiting room, roughly from D; Cooper
is immediately in front of us, having entered at D.

Cooper pauses to look back, then runs across room to E (going
in front of his chair); meanwhile, Cooper-2 runs behind him,
catching him right at E.  It seems there is a scuffle, but
just as Cooper-2 catches Cooper the lights go out, strobes
come one, and a moment later Bob sticks his face, laughing,
into the camera.

Glastonberry grove, curtains, spotlight... etc.


buzzard @ eng.umd.edu   Merriversity of Uniland, College Purgatory, MD 20742
I was objectdestroy()ed by bob on ubermud and all I got was this lousy .sig!

I believe that the Waiting Room was a sort of equivalent to Purgatory, a place
that is neither good nor evil but capable of holding both while the balance of
the soul is sorted out.  Cooper  leaves the purgatory of the waiting room and
enters the hell of the black lodge after he has finished his "coffee".  Doesn't
the LMFAP tell Coop that the next time Coop sees him it won't be him?  I took
this to mean that Coop was now venturing into the Land of Lies.  

I don't think Coop encountered anyone from the White Lodge.  My personal proof
of this is that Coop did encounter Leland.  Leland was escorted into death by
Cooper who guided him "into the light", where Leland met Laura (and presumably,
peace, forgiveness and redemption).  Leland's mortal soul found redemption
(which sounds to me like a good pass into the White Lodge).  

 Perhaps the lines from Shakespeare about "The evil that men do lives on while
the good is oft interred with the bones" applies here.    While Leland's soul
has moved on, his lesser image, his shade or doppleganger still hangs out in
the Black Lodge.   This image speaks of responsibility for casuing death and
evading that responsibility.  The "real" Leland faced up to his part in Laura's
death and went through it.   The  shade of Leland was still reveling in the
death.

My weird thought of the day was that maybe the good Leland, the part that
passed into the light, can come back and return the favor to Coop and free him
from the grip of BoB.  That would seem to be a sort of poetic justice.

Just a few random thoughts over my morning coffe and donuts.

Terri

In article <TOM.91Jun13165126@kether.webo.dg.com> tom@kether.webo.dg.com (Tom Sullivan) writes:
> >Here's one that no one seems to have noticed....When WE first takes
> >Annie to the Sycamore circle, she's praying some prayer (of protection
> >probably?  Good idea!).  WE drags her into the circle, says some silly
> >rifraf encantation, and ZAP, Annie is "mesmerized" (If I spelled it
> >correctly, as in Hypnotized).  After this, look at her eyes (they are
> >a little hard to see, but they are noticeable).  Guess what???
> >DOPPLEGANGER EYES!!!!!!  What do YOU think this means???????

Someone already noticed it, but I've got a theory now.

I don't feel that WE really had any evil power that originated within himself.
I feel that he was being used by BOB as a "pawn" to manipulate events in the
physical world. So, WE didn't give her the eyes, but BOB did it in such a
way as to encourage WE's confidance in his "evil power".

The soul selling scene a little later seems to bear this out. WE honestly
believes that he has power in the nether regions, but in reality, he
is as powerless as Cooper or any other mortal. In fact, he is probably
less powerful because of his lack of love.

Mat


-- W Mat Waites mat@cdbhp1.UUCP | Unlike most of you, I am not a nut. {gatech,emory}!cdbhp1!mat | -H. Simpson

In article <NJ.91Jun13162407@truffula.Berkeley.EDU>
nj@truffula.Berkeley.EDU (Narciso Jaramillo) writes:

}I don't mind the enigma or the hanging plot threads, I don't mind the
}good guys losing, and I like Lynch's sense of slow pace (cf
}Eraserhead).  What I didn't like was that he completely failed to do
}anything (artistically) new with The Red Room, except for the
}interesting strobe effect on Cooper's face.  It wasn't nearly as
}visually arresting as the original dream sequence; all the subtleties
}of that original sequence (the lighting, the floating shadows) seemed
}to be missing.  It just felt like a room with a bunch of red curtains,
}not The Red Room.  Moreover, he failed to develop any new themes.

I'll disagree with you a bit here. The Red Room was even more disturbing
as it was than if it had been purposefully built up as A Weird Place.
It looked so normal, but you knew it wasn't. Much more suspenseful.

 --- Joe M.

Wild ramblings and incoherent thoughts about the finale and series
in general...not particulary a theory...but:

perhaps the disappearance of the Venus statue is a visual symbol
that Coop has stopped acting with a love motivation and is now
acting out of fear (I haven't reviewed the tape to see if this
holds water).

I think the oil will get one into the lodges even when the planets
aren't aligned or perhaps the oil gets Bob out of the lodge.

Josie wasn't there because she's in the doorknob.  The log lady's
husband wasn't there because he's in the log.  Why some go to 
wood and some go to the lodge is a question I can't even begin
to theorize. 

The seemingly strange behavior of the residents is accounted for
by the flip flop of time (IMHO).  I think everytime Coop crossed
a hall, time in TP wavered or flipped or reversed or something.
The order the letters were placed under fingernails would seem
to backup the random time theory.

Based on random time, I'm kind of hoping that Pete and Audrey weren't
in the bank when it exploded.  I think the glasses belong to the 
old man.  However, this isn't logical even with a random time 
theory (why would the box be open), so chalk this one up to 
wishful thinking.  Random time theory could also account
for the unbelievable youth of the sycamore trees.

My really stupid theory on how the Douglas Firs got changed
to sycamores in the finale:  DL's son came home from Sunday
school singing the song about Zaccheus up in the sycamore
tree.  For those unfamiliar with this Bible story, Zaccheus
 was a man of small stature and some historians believe the 
actual translation (not the King James Bible translation) 
indicates Zaccheus was a dwarf or a
midget.  Jesus was passing through
town and Zaccheus couldn't see him because of his small
stature so he climbed a sycamore tree.  He was then 
noticed by Jesus and saved from eternal damnation after
making a number of promises regarding the changing of 
his evil ways.  Somehow I think ol' David would have
gotten a charge out of this story.

In the dream sequence, we saw the shadow on the curtain.  Just as
coop only sees the giant and the little man, I think the major only
sees the hooded figure and someone else.  Perhaps the shadow on the
curtain somehow portends Hawk's help and the Major's rescue of Coop.

I think the voice from Sarah Palmer is the voice of one of the
entities that only the major sees.

When Leland was possessed by Bob, he still had enough of himself
left to leave the letter clues and to tell about recognizing
that face.  Coop will also leave clues, hopefully not as obscure. 


Sorry, this is so long...but TP withdrawal seems to be happening
already.

Connie

I saw in yesterday's paper that ABC/Nielsons/Big Brother/whoever reported
that 10 million people viewed the final episode.  I hope that there was an
NBA final on opposite it or something....

-- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken Hughes | (hughes@sol.csee.usf.edu) | "..... corn nuts ........." FT-Ph D student, PT-ex-sysadm | Dept of Comp Sci and Eng | .... _Heathers_ University of South Florida | --------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's my theory.

Cooper enters the Black Lodge, to face the test Hawk spoke of and to get
Annie back from Windom Earle.  Unfortunately, his love for Annie blinds
him to the nature of the test he is about to encounter.

He meets the MFAP and LP.  The giant/waiter appears, and offers him
coffee.  He does this in an odd way ("Hallelujah!"  "Coffee. 
Coffee..."), which somehow nullifies the MFAP's power over what is going
on.  Cooper realizes the power of the coffee (if he can drink it it will
help him in his test) and looks to see if the MFAP is watching before he
drinks it.  He is not, the MFAP is rubbing his hands and looking down. 
Coop reaches for the coffee, but Bob has made it solid, so he cannot
drink.  He then plays with Coop, making it coffee again and then
viscous.  Coop cannot drink.  The MFAP notices this, and praises Bob:
"Wow Bob wow.  Fire walk with me.", "Fire walk with me" being a sort of
prayer to Bob or the Black Lodge.  The giant cannot help Coop; he loses
the first round.

Coop next meets Maddie, who warns him about Laura.  The MFAP tells Coop
about Doppelgangers.  Laura's screaming scares Coop, and he is injured,
but returns to the room to face Laura again and recovers.

Coop next faces Windom Earle, in the guise of Catherine and Annie.  WE
succeeds in confusing Coop about his love for the dead Catherine (but
maybe alive in the Black Lodge) versus his love for Annie.  However,
when he finally confronts Coop and challenges him for his soul, Coop
offers it, and wins this round -- this is his great victory in the Black
Lodge.  Windom Earle is destroyed by Bob, who tells Coop to go.

At this point, Coop should have challenged Bob, I think.  Instead, he
leaves, since he has now won what he thought he came for, i.e., Annie. 
He shouldn't have run from the last test, the confrontation with his
Doppelganger.  In fact, things are OK up until the point just after Coop
meets Leland, who tells him he never killed anyone: i.e., that he is the
"good" Leland captured by Bob and imprisoned in the Black Lodge -- he is
warning Coop that the same could happen to him.  Coop sees his
Doppelganger at the other end of the hall, and instead of confronting
him, he runs in fear, to be defeated just as he's about to exit the
Black Lodge.

The result is, the good Coop is in the Black Lodge, the bad Coop is in
the world, and there to remain until defeated by, perhaps, Briggs, the
Log Lady, Annie, and maybe Truman and Hawk.

-- J

In article <1991Jun11.210555.28722@APS.Atex.Kodak.COM> dawson@Atex.Kodak.COM writes:
>>> >> >But we saw Dell's glasses fly across the street and into a bush, and
>>> >> >he was *outside* the vault.  
>> >> 
> >Dell's glasses? I thought they were Andrew Packard's, and were the tipoff
> >that our Andrew had indeed bought the big one. (Loved those dollar bills 
> >floating down.) Remember the nighttime scene where Andrew exchanges the
> >keys? His glasses looked like that, heavy and black... I noticed them 
> >because he wasn't wearing glasses like that in earlier episodes. [Caveat:
> >I haven't checked this on the tape, could be way off base here.]

I *did* check.  Andrew was not wearing any glasses in the bank vault.
BTW: I afraid I think Audry is dead.  They showed us the windows
being blown out and there weren't any windows in the vault.  Obviously
the explosion was not limited to the vault and it seemed to intense
for survivors.

-- Scott Amspoker | Touch the peripheral convex of every Basis International, Albuquerque, NM | kind, then various kinds of blaming (505) 345-5232 | sound can be sent forth. unmvax.cs.unm.edu!bbx!bbxsda!scott | - Instructions for a little box that | blurts out obscenities.

In article <XH83HPG@cs.swarthmore.edu> pouncy@campus.swarthmore.edu writes:
> >                     In witchcraft (celtic version) twelve is
> >a magic number.  Twelve witches usually form a coven and...

I thought twelve witches formed a *dozen*.  (Sorry, it's Friday you know).


-- Scott Amspoker | Touch the peripheral convex of every Basis International, Albuquerque, NM | kind, then various kinds of blaming (505) 345-5232 | sound can be sent forth. unmvax.cs.unm.edu!bbx!bbxsda!scott | - Instructions for a little box that | blurts out obscenities.

In article <1991Jun11.122948.10710@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov> xxmartn@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov writes:
> >
> >I'm angry that the major did not have a larger role (or one at all!!)

Me too.  Shouldn't he have been on his way to save Cooper?  And why no
involvement with the White Lodge at all?

> >I'm angry that they dropped an extremely interesting plot line (KING ARTHUR
> >!!) they mentioned it and then *** POOF *** they dropped it.  Maybe
> >spanning from England to Twin Peaks was too much?  not for me.

My theory is that someone noted the mystical qualities of Glastonberry
[sic] Grove and decided to name it after another mystical place,
Glastonbury.  (By the way, is Arthur really at Glastonbury?  I thought the
Holy Grail was there.  Or are they both there?)

By the way, Marvel Comics UK has a series called "The Knights of Pendragon"
which involves the Arthurian legends, supernatural forces, and
environmentalism...

--
  *  From the disk of:|  jms@vanth.uucp |  "Let's become
  Jim Shaffer, Jr.|  amix.commodore.com!vanth!jms  |   alive again."
  37 Brook Street|  uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms |
  Montgomery, PA 17752|  72750.2335@compuserve.com |   --Yes

raveling@Unify.com (Paul Raveling) writes:

> >  Lynch wants the movie to be about the last 7 days of
> >  Laura Palmer's life.  

Just envisioning what kind of film this might be gives me shivers.  It'll
probably be the most disturbing work Lynch will have ever made ...

> >  The threads left hanging in the
> >  last TV episode will probably hang forever -- and what
> >  sort of place is Peaks without Coop?

Well, that's the way it goes when you work with television.  Putting my
Peakian frustrations concerning the hanging threads aside, it's kind of
fitting that the series would end on this most bizarre note.  It's certainly
in the spirit of the show ... but I don't think that Frost and Lynch will
forget about us ... if they get the means, I'm sure they'll get back on
someday with a TV-movie or limited miniseries of some sort.


===============================================================================
    :: :: :: :: ::    Synth         synth@yenta.alb.nm.us  "I'll see you again
 :: :: :: :: :: :: :: (F. Oberheim) synth@euler.unm.edu      in 25 years ..."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Fire your boss! Get out of the rat race forever. Call 24hr msg (505) 764-0621
===============================================================================
"I am your DOCTOR!  I'm here to BLEED you!  I have the LEECHES!"

In article <1991Jun11.191815.27860@indetech.com>, lzs@indetech.com (Lynn
Z. Schneider x2077) writes:

|> <<stuff deleted>>
|> And Naedine getting clunked on the head and regaining her memory was so 
|> predictable. 

I certainly hope you weren't asking for reality.  The entire season with
Nadine (and last season for that matter) are just plain comical compared to
what's going on in the rest of the show.  You might call the resolution
predictable but if you do then I think you'd have to dismiss the entire
subplot with Nadine as pointless and silly.

|> That's my 2 cents. 

Just mine too.

-- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken Hughes | (hughes@sol.csee.usf.edu) | "..... corn nuts ........." FT-Ph D student, PT-ex-sysadm | Dept of Comp Sci and Eng | .... _Heathers_ University of South Florida | --------------------------------------------------------------------

grosvald@herb-ox.berkeley.edu (Mike Grosvald) writes:

> > So that is my question.  If one watches every episode of The
> > Prisoner and then sees the last episode, does it make sense
> > at all?  Or is it truly the hodgepodge that it seems to a newcomer
> > like me to be?
> > 
the first time i saw any of the prisoner episodes, i saw "living
in harmony".. the next one i was able to see happened to be "fall out"
yes, it makes a lot more sense in seeing a larger number of episodes..
i was able to see the whole series at a "prisoner marathon".. 
it was the strangest thing.. this strange western.. and then.. well,
Fall Out.  @:^,

--
The Great Skeeve (bbs.skeeve@spies.com)

Spies in the Wire, PUBLIC ACCESS UNIX  -- (408) 867-7400

mat@cdbhp1.UUCP (W Mat Waites) writes:

> >In article <TOM.91Jun13165126@kether.webo.dg.com> tom@kether.webo.dg.com (Tom Sullivan) writes:

> >I don't feel that WE really had any evil power that originated within himself.
> >I feel that he was being used by BOB as a "pawn" to manipulate events in the
> >physical world. So, WE didn't give her the eyes, but BOB did it in such a
> >way as to encourage WE's confidance in his "evil power".

WE didn't have any power because of this -- it was the stalemate scene --
A King cannot attack (capturing in chess terminology) the other king--
it is against the rules and results in stalemate.  In a real game this
situation would happen if all the pieces besides the kings were gone,
this would be a stalemate because a king cannot attack another king.

My interpretation of the rest of the episode were that Cooper left 
the room and came in behind Bob and captured him.  So the end of the
episode, Cooper had neutralized Bob by making himself the human host.

I will have to go back to the tape to see if the rest of you are right
about the Cooper coming in behind Bob is really the doppelganger Cooper.
It sounds like that is the correct interpretation, and I didn't notice
the double entering at that point (the laughing-with-Bob scene).
-- John Carey University of Illinois Dept. of Computer Science carey@a.cs.uiuc.edu {uu-net,pur-ee,convex,...}!uiucdcs!carey

Why believe what BOB says in the Black Lodge to Coop?  Perhaps WE did
have some mastery of the power of the Black Lodge and took Coop's 
soul.  Then when BOB took WE, he inherited Coop's soul and was able
to create from it the Coopelganger.

This whole theory works a bit better if what WE took from Coop was the
dark side of Coop's nature (I like that evil can only have power over
evil).  However, if this is the case I think it will require a 
transporter effect to re-unite the two sides of Kirk's (I mean Coop's)
soul.

-- Scott Turner

Party's over.  Time to move on.  We send the rmgroup in 5 minutes.

-JS

> >"But that's in the past," you say?  Well, perhaps the backwards speech and
> >movement from the lodge inhabitants indicate that time is flowing sdrawkcab
> >within the lodge, and that dream sequence would be 25 years in THEIR future.
> >(Time not only flows backwards for them but also at a completely different
> >rate.)

I had the same thought!  I like it.  Another reference to time in the
final episode was Ben Horne telling Audrey "Time heals all wounds."


 Brian WOOD    *House address 710 -- same as Blue Lady's apt in Blue Velvet
               *Just got through studying major religious works like Ben Horne
               *Live next to a grove of TREES
               *My wife's aunt's name is Annie; my sister's name is Anne
               *My wife grew up next to a forest; next street - Glastonbury

What I'm hoping will happen is that Lynch, Frost, and maybe
a good writer ;-) will get together and assemble a Twin Peaks *book*
that covers the whole series, with some additional material that
explains a lot of the stuff we've been confused about.  If nothing
else, I'd like a better idea of what was going on in that red room
at the end!

Dave

-- Disclaimer: These opinions subject to change without notice. ************************************************************************** The heart and the mind on a parallel course, never the two shall meet. -E. Saliers

In article <20609@sdcc6.ucsd.edu> jsnell@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Jason Snell) writes:

> >One other thing about ABC: they do have, IMHO, some of the best TV on the air.
> >When the new schedule came out, I jumped for joy (well, not literally) when I
> >found they were bringing "Anything But Love" back. We lost Twin Peaks, but at
> >least one "marginal" show (and a damned fine one) is coming back. And I also
> >find "Wonder Years" and "Doogie Howser, M.D." superior shows, too. (Is this
> >blasphemy? Twin Peaks was #1 (or 2, depending on how much I like ST:TNG) in my
> >heart, swear to god, a.tv.tp'ers...) So perhaps ABC is just the lesser of two
> >evils, and I'm afraid that Twin Peaks was TV the likes of which will NEVER
> >pass this way again, at least on a major US network.

And don't forget about "Dinosaurs"--definately superior (heavy sarcasm, in
case you didn't notice).
-- Jeff Hansen /\ ----------- "How's Annie?" / \/\ Internet: jmh@aal.itd.umich.edu /___/__\ Jeff_Hansen@ub.cc.umich.edu BitNet: userHCQ7@ubumich

>>>>> >>>>> On 13 Jun 91 15:58:49 GMT, jj9891@swpyr2.sbc.com (Joyan M. Jackson) said:

Joyan> Why did Annie stop resisting WE as soon as she was pulled
Joyan> inside the ring of trees?  Why wasn't there any change, that
Joyan> we could see, in Cooper when he entered the ring?

Notice her eyes!  I think we are to take it that WE charmed her.  BUT,
notice her eyes after the charm!

Joyan> Why did Truman not try to investigate the ring when Coop had
Joyan> been gone for such a long time?

Harry has shown a distinct aversion to all the supernatural stuff.  I
think he was simply overwhelmed/freaked.

How _did_ Annie become injured?  Windom never hurts her, since she 
simply yammers in fear and then goes catatonic within the circle.
Could the injury, similar to Maddy's bloody face when she died, 
indicate that Annie has somehow been possessed of her spirit?  We 
always wondered about Donna's possible metaphysical connection to 
Laura, but I think that was mostly a red herring.  Maddy, on the 
other hand, seemed to have a real connection to, if not possession 
by, Laura.  Annie with Maddy on board--would she have any better
chance of detecting that Cooper is not Cooper?  Or maybe the head
injury indicates some damage to the soul (like Leland, Maddy, Ben
and Coop).  At any rate, Annie is marked.

Annie, unlike other victims, seems to have had no premonition of her
fate.  She does not seem to have been a pawn of Windom or BOB until
the pageant draws attention to her.  Was her picture on one of the 
cards at any point?  

While standing between Windom and Cooper, Annie seems to be aware
but helpless, like she knows Cooper should not agree to trade his
soul, but can't tell him.  "It's a trap!"  This looks like the real
Annie, not the injured one on the floor which turns into Caroline, 
then Windom.

On the other hand, I grew really tired of her "flat affect" style of
acting, as if the character were reading off the TelePrompter.  I
guess it was supposed to signify some great calm in her character,
but it seemed to leech the passion out of the whole relationship
with Coop.  They seemed very intent, but never "swept away".  I
wanted "swept away".  Oh, well, I'll go rewatch the "Ice Breaking"
episode of "Northern Exposure" :-)


Kimiye Tipton    att!ablnc!kimi   kimi@ablnc.att.com   Maitland, FL
"If you want to catch a fish, think like a fish."

A couple things I've not seen mentioned:

1) Is Hawk dead?  I think he was the person who answered the phone just before
the bomb went off.

2) Was the explosion related to BOB (and the flames in the lodge) in any way?

3) If the LMFAP said "the next time you see me it will not be me", why did
Cooper believe him the next time he saw him and he said "wrong way!"?

4) Did Dell (the old guy at the bank) remind anyone else of a conmbination of
Senior Droolcup (the speed) and the LMFAP (the walk)?

Also, about the "one and the same" line.  I believe that meant Senor Droolcup
and the Giant are the same.  Otherwise, why would the Giant and LM on the map
be separate?

Well?
************>   russellp@cae.wisc.edu   <*******************************
Russ Perry Jr   104 S Randall Ave   Madison WI 53715   608-256-1910
WARNING: I may have access removed due to graduation.  If you need to keep in
contact, please save the above info, as email may be bouncing soon (~Aug 25)!

Cooper lost his control of the situation as soon as he fell for Annie.
He lost his _soul_ at that point.  He became scattered in his thoughts,
and inaction began to permeate everything he was involved in.  What
happened to "the best lawman I ever met"?  

For Cooper, it seems that caring more about a woman than he does 
for himself (and he is Twin Peaks' only weapon against BOB, Windom
Earle, and the Black Lodge) is his tragic flaw.  He is a fallen
priest!  Aaacck!  I don't like this, but it sure fits in with the 
Lancelot analogy.  He will have to sacrifice Annie (at the least, his
relationship with her) to fix this up.

The dark-haired, filmy-eyed Leland who claims innocence seemed to be 
a way of teasing Cooper, who is about to be put in the same position
if Coopelganger does any damage in Twin Peaks.  Leland, after BOB 
leaves his body, is aware of and remembers the crimes committed while he
was possessed.  So that really must be Coop's body, although some part
of his soul may be left in the Red Room.  Is there any part of the
real Coop left in his physical body?  Must be, trapped, like Josie
in the drawer knob.  Maybe Coop's in that log Truman was sitting on...

Was BOB toying with Cooper by letting him think he was okay, get up
to brush his teeth, and then taking over?  (I once had a dream about
a force which tried to possess me--I felt a huge pressure in my head, 
which I fought, and which suddenly went away.  I was then frozen with 
fear waiting, in the absence of the pressure, to find out whether I had
won or lost.  Instead, I woke up.  Still scares the crap out of me, 
fifteen years later.)

BOB was very comfortable in Leland, dancing and singing and performing
complex physical tasks.  BOB seems to be awkward in Coop's body, with
very little finesse.  Does he get better with practice?  Or is he still
fighting some remnant of Cooper?  Who was "not sleeping"?  

Why does BOB injure Cooper by banging "their" head into the mirror?  
If he was gloating over how easy it is to fool Truman and Doc Hayward,
why would he do something that makes Cooper's sanity subject to doubt?  
He'll probably lie and say he fainted, but a badly injured body won't
be a good vehicle to go on a murdering rampage.  Maybe he just hates
Coop too much to control himself?  

I think any further appearances of Cooper (ghod, I hope there is one 
movie or something to come out of this) must leave us guessing for 
quite a while whether Cooper has any influence on his own body.  How 
would the memory work?  Like a victim of multiple personality disorder, 
where some personas know everything while others are conscious only 
occasionally?  But Cooper would be aware of gaps, and certainly suspect 
who "had" him.  That head injury might serve a purpose, then, to give 
Coop black-outs and hide BOB's presence.  Where's that blue liquid
when you need it?  Whatever did happen to the one-armed man?  Oooohh,
what might Coop have to cut off to get rid of BOB?  Uh, oh!  At least
there's precedent for a human to regain control of his body.  

Yeah, Cooper has to get control back, but probably at the cost of major
body parts and any possible relationship with a woman ever again.  


Kimiye Tipton    att!ablnc!kimi   kimi@ablnc.att.com   Maitland, FL
"If you want to catch a fish, think like a fish."

In article <24363@natinst.natinst.com> davoli@natinst.com (Russell Davoli) writes:
> >
> >After watching the finale, I was struck by how unglued Cooper seemed to
> >become in the Black Lodge sequence.  The whole sequence made me wonder
> >if it really was at all consistent with what we had seen before or if
> >Lynch and Co. decided to recycle our favorite imagery one last time.
> >One thing I was never clear on was if the whole sequence was supposed to
> >be just the Black Lodge, or both the Black and White Lodges.  I remember
> >Deputy Hawk saying some time ago that one had to pass through the Black
> >Lodge on the way to the White Lodge.  Could it be that Coop lost his
> >composure when confronting Bob and went the wrong way, back instead of
> >onward through to the White Lodge?  Guess we'll never really know...

I think it was both, which is not to say that the Black Lodge and the White
Lodge are the same place.  What we saw was Cooper's perception (hence only
he talks normally and the confusion of Annie, Caroline and Laura, something
that exists only in Cooper's mind).  The theme of red curtains is something
out of Cooper's mind, not an actual feature of the Lodge (compare Major
Brigg's vision of the verdant chair).  It's not so much the events that
caused Cooper to become unglued, but Cooper's ungluedness that caused the
events we saw.

Cooper did not go in with a pure heart seeking enlightenment in the White
Lodge.  He went in motivated by love and fear for Annie, but that love was
somewhat tainted by his desire for revenge on Windham and his guilt over
Caroline's death and his guilt for loving Annie after letting Caroline
die.  His motives were mixed and confused, seeking both the White Lodge
(his own personal quest for good) and the Black (his quest to help Annie
and exact vengence on Windham).  So what he ended up with was a vision of
an amalgam of Black and White (as exemplified by the zig-zag black and white
floor patterns (thanks to whatever irc'er pointed that out)).  He was
basically seeing double, black and white at the same time, and he never
really managed to discriminate between them or take control of the situation.

As others have suggested, the whole thing was a trap for Cooper from the
beginning.  Cooper drove Bob out of Leland, and Bob wanted revenge on Cooper.
What would be more Bob-ish than to exact his vengence by choosing Cooper as
his next host?  Furthermore, Cooper was a threat to the Black Lodge.  It's
fairly obvious that the White Lodge is drastically short of agents capable
of acting for it in the real world.  The giant has only a senile old host
and is very limited in his real world actions.  The Log Lady is also not up
to much more than carrying messages.  Working in ignorance, Cooper has already
cause the Black Lodge some trouble, if he could really link up with the White
Lodge, he would be a major danger.

It seems to me that Bob can act in two ways: by directly possessing a host,
as he did with Leland and now Cooper, or by tempting a weaker person to work
toward his ends.  The latter is what happened with both Laura and Windham
(thus the interleaving of their images).  Both acted for Bob without actually
being taken over by Bob.  And Bob destroyed both when their usefulness
expired.  In the case of Windham, his job was to set Cooper up for Bob.
Windham thought he was going to get power (and Coop's soul), but he was only
Bob's tool and Bob refused him any part of the payoff, leaving him as
catatonic as Windham's own tool, Leo.

Because he was seeing a overlay of both the Black and White Lodge, Cooper saw
both Black and White sides of many of the people in the lodge.  We only saw
one Leland though, and he denied being killings anyone.  This tends to
support the view that the other Leland was ridden out into the real world
by Bob, and that it is just the evil-Cooper who got out.  However the
Leland in the corridor had white-eyes, normally a symptom of Black Lodge
domination, and he seemed much friendlier with the evil Cooper than the
good Cooper (who loses his white-eyes when he meets Leland...did they only
have one set of white contact lenses?).

Another thing I can figure out is who Sarah Palmer's message was from.  I
understood that she said "I'm in the Black Lodge with Dale Cooper" (or
"Agent Cooper" or just "Cooper", I forget).  She sought out Briggs to
deliver the message to.  So who in the Black Lodge wanted Briggs to know
that Cooper was there?  The White Lodgers usually speak through the Log
Lady, who is generaly much clearer than Sarah was.  My guess is that the
message was from Laura Palmer, who has a closer tie to Sarah.
From: wolter@cs.tamu.edu (Jan Wolter)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: Cooper in the Red Rooms
Expires: 
References: 
Sender: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: world
Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University
Keywords: 

In article <24363@natinst.natinst.com> davoli@natinst.com (Russell Davoli) writes:
> >
> >After watching the finale, I was struck by how unglued Cooper seemed to
> >become in the Black Lodge sequence.  The whole sequence made me wonder
> >if it really was at all consistent with what we had seen before or if
> >Lynch and Co. decided to recycle our favorite imagery one last time.
> >One thing I was never clear on was if the whole sequence was supposed to
> >be just the Black Lodge, or both the Black and White Lodges.  I remember
> >Deputy Hawk saying some time ago that one had to pass through the Black
> >Lodge on the way to the White Lodge.  Could it be that Coop lost his
> >composure when confronting Bob and went the wrong way, back instead of
> >onward through to the White Lodge?  Guess we'll never really know...

I think it was both, which is not to say that the Black Lodge and the White
Lodge are the same place.  What we saw was Cooper's perception (hence only
he talks normally and the confusion of Annie and Caroline, something that
exists mainly in his mind).  The theme of red curtains is something out of
Cooper's mind, not an actual feature of the Lodge (compare Major Brigg's
vision of the verdant chair).  It's not so much the events that caused Cooper
to become unglued, but Cooper's ungluedness that caused the events we saw.

Cooper did not go in with a pure heart seeking enlightenment in the White
Lodge.  He went in motivated by love and fear for Annie, but that love was
somewhat tainted by his desire for revenge on Windham and his guilt over
Caroline's death and his guilt for loving Annie after letting Caroline
die.  His motives were mixed and confused, seeking both the White Lodge
(his own personal quest for good) and the Black (his quest to help Annie
and exact vengence on Windham).  So what he ended up with was a vision of
an amalgam of Black and White (as exemplified by the zig-zag black and white
floor patterns (thanks to whatever irc'er pointed that out)).  He was
basically seeing double, black and white at the same time, and he never
really managed to discriminate between them or take control of the situation.

As others have suggested, the whole thing was a trap for Cooper from the
beginning.  Cooper drove Bob out of Leland, and Bob wanted revenge on Cooper.
What would be more Bob-ish than to exact his vengence by choosing Cooper as
his next host?  Furthermore, Cooper was a threat to the Black Lodge.  It's
fairly obvious that the White Lodge is drastically short of agents capable
of acting for it in the real world.  The giant has only a senile old host
and is very limited in his real world actions.  The Log Lady is also not up
to much more than carrying messages.  If Cooper could really link up with the
White Lodge, he could cause the Black Lodge a heck of a lot of trouble.

It seems to me that Bob can act in two ways: by directly possessing a host,
as he did with Leland and now Cooper, or by tempting a weaker person to work
toward his ends.  The latter is what happened with both Laura and Windham
(thus the interleaving of their images).  Both acted for Bob without actually
being taken over by Bob.  And Bob destroyed both when their usefulness
expired.  In the case of Windham, his job was to set Cooper up for Bob.
Windham thought he was going to get power (Coop's soul), but he was only
Bob's tool and Bob refused him any part of the payoff, leaving him as
catatonic as Windham's own tool, Leo.

Because he was seeing a overlay of both the Black and White Lodge, Cooper saw
both Black and White sides of many of the people in the lodge.  We only saw
one Leland though, and he denied being killings anyone.  This tends to
support the view that the other Leland was ridden out into the real world
by Bob, and that it is just the evil-Cooper who got out.  However the
Leland in the corridor had white-eyes, normally a symptom of Black Lodge
domination, and he seemed much friendlier with the evil Cooper than the
good Cooper (who loses his white-eyes when he meets Leland...did they only
have one set of white contact lenses?).

Another thing I can figure out is who Sarah Palmer's message was from.  I
understood that she said "I'm in the Black Lodge with Dale Cooper" (or
"Agent Cooper" or just "Cooper", I forget).  She sought out Briggs to
deliver the message to.  So who in the Black Lodge wanted Briggs to know
that Cooper was there?  The White Lodgers usually speak through the Log
Lady, who is generaly much clearer than Sarah was.  My guess is that the
message was from Laura Palmer, who has a closer tie to Sarah.

Incidentally, I was touched by Leo's attempt to save Shelley by releasing
Briggs.  After trying to kill her himself a few times, and after the way
she treated him when he was out of it, it was the last thing I expected.

- jan

You say you didn't like how Twin Peaks ended?  There's a very simple
explanation.

Lynch and Frost weren't involved with it.  It was their Black Lodge
doppelgangers.

Repeat after me (in a nasal voice):
How's Twin Peaks?
How's Twin Peaks?
How's Twin Peaks?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     |     Avery and I ran into the kitchen, expecting
Jim Drew     | to find a body; specifically, that of Grace,
jrd@frame.com     | the illegal alien living in our basement.  We
(Furry: Randy Puritan)     | found her, quite alive, covered with motor oil,
(SCA: Colyn-Michel du Mont   | threatening to kill Tam Chenadi, the practical
St. Michel)     | joker who must have caused her mishap.
{opinions: mine != frame's}  |     "Grace!" I said, preventing Tam's imminent
"Innocent, but not naive."   | demise.  "You look...," I cast about for an
     | appropriate word, "...slick."
     |- Marc Lynx, "Righter's Bloc"

In article <> 6600hien@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Hien Le) writes:

> > Well, as the subject header states, has there been any recent news on
> > this?  Would Columbia House Video be willing to adopt the series onto
> > videotape (like "ST:TNG", etc.)?  I'm sure that there'd be enough
> > fans/curious people out there who would purchase the tapes.  Thanks.

Has anyone seen the Japanese laserdisc of Twin Peaks? I'm curious as to
the ending they tacked on to it.

John

In article <2015@bbxsda.UUCP> scott@bbxsda.UUCP (Scott Amspoker) writes:

> >BTW: I afraid I think Audry is dead.  

I doubt it.  Just as Shelly was tied up in the Mill and survived,
Audrey, chained to the vault, will survive this blast.  However,
she may come back to town wearing sandals and tie-dyes, representing
some granola cruncing environmentalists, and fooling everyone in
TP except for the viewers.

In article <544@wybbs.mi.org>, meyers@wybbs.mi.org (John Meyers) writes:
> > [Yet another person posting thoughts about the final episode. But these are
> >  good ones. ;-)]
> > 
> > First of all, will someone of authority conferm/deny that the final
two episodes
> > were filmed long the final status of the show was known, so these were
actually
> > just the last two shows of the season, and it was assumed there would
be more?

I asked Scott Frost specifically whether they had reshot
any portion of the final episode(s) when it became known
that Peaks wouldn't continue on ABC.  The answer was that
nothing was reshot -- the season ending was left as it
would have been if the show had continued next season.

> > 
> > Certain scenes seemed as though the show ran short and some filler was
needed.
> > One example is the bank scene. I agree that it was pretty humorous,
but I'd
> > rather not spend 5 minutes watching an old man look confused.

That's a Lynchism that he seems to want, though I haven't
figured out why.  If anything I'd guess that they cut a fair bit;
there were parts that didn't hang together very well that suggest
a few pieces got left on the cutting room floor, or its electronic
equivalent.


------------------
Paul Raveling
Raveling@Unify.com

> > These lyrics are from a song the Indigo Girls cover called
> > "(Everybody) Get Together".  I can't recall the songwriter at the moment.
> > It's obviously a reference to WHITE AND BLACK LODGES!!!

Two more love/fear references in songs:

Laurie Anderson, "Sharkey's Day"

I turn around, and it's love
I turn around again, and it's fear

Bruce Springsteen, "Cautious Man"

On his right hand Billy tatooed the word "love";
on his left hand the word "fear"

Just a thought:  Love/Fear == Lynch/Frost?  Naah.

In article <109747@sgi.sgi.com> sjohnson@texas.vlsi.sgi.com (Scott Johnson) writes:
<
<Finally:  YES!  No James!

What is it with everybody complaining about James?  Some new
hippy trend or what?

Jan Bielawski
Computervision, San Diego
jpb@calmasd.prime.com

Nobody has mentioned the scene where Ben and Dr. Hayward confront each other.
Ben gets his head rammed into the fireplace almost like Maddie got her head
rammed into the picture of Missoula and almost like Cooper rammed his head
into the mirror.

I think Cooper is not the only one possessed by Bob.  I think Donna's desire
to be like Laura is going to be filled beyond her wildest nightmares.

I was a little disappointed by the ending being as predicted (yes, it does
seem ineveitable, but I was still disappointed) and I was a *lot* disappointed
by the scene in the Black Lodge (my theory is that the White and Black
lodges are actually the same place).

Windom definitely got to experience his favorite emotion to a much greater
degree than he anticipated!

It's too bad Pete and Audrey bought the farm, but I think Andrew got precisely
what he deserved.

So does the 25-years-in-the-future dream sequence (preview of the future)
indicate that Cooper has defeated Bob with love and entered the White Lodge
(White portion of the White/Black lodge) or that he has been defeated by
fear and is doomed to spend the rest of eternity in the Black Lodge with
Bob, Laura, et. al.?

-Pete Zakel
 (phz@cadence.com or ..!uunet!cadence!phz)

"Wow, Bob, wow."

In article <1991Jun13.162332.6103@pimacc.pima.edu>, vcooper@pimacc.pima.edu (Vanya Cooper) writes:
> > In article <TOM.91Jun12094726@kether.webo.dg.com>, tom@kether.webo.dg.com (Tom Sullivan) writes:
>> > > 
>> > > Perhaps the mark the major and the log lady have is due to facing the
>> > > black lodge and NOT getting corrupted....If so, perhaps he made it to
>> > > the white lodge...
>> > > 
> > 
> > Probably the giant is actually the doorman for the White lodge and if you pass
> > the test, he will stamp your hand (neck or whatever) as you leave so you can
> > get back in later ...

Something is beginning to ring with the ring of truth here.  But has Margaret really
been to the White Lodge?  She hands the oil around like it's all new to her.  She did
explain the circumstances under which she found she had the mark.  What exactly did
she say, again?  Was it consonant with her having "blacked out" like the Major?

-- cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet...

In article <JYM.91Jun13163644@remarque.berkeley.edu> jym@mica.berkeley.edu (Jym Dyer) writes:
> >
>> >> First of all, cheers to Angelo Badalementi for the new suspense
>> >> theme. I like it! That eeiry tune will be with me the rest of my
>> >> days.)
> >
> >    Yeah, and it's about time.  The second season has mostly been
> >
> >    Except that it made a comeback when Audrey and ben were
> >talking about him.  Oh well. :-)
> >    <_Jym_>

Yeah, and then when Ben started talking about her speech about saving
the trees and Ghostwood, the old Ben theme (clicking fingers) came
back, kind of faded in a little, did you notice?  I thought it was
an indication that the old Ben (i.e. the baddie) was  making a 
reappearance.

-carol


--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Carol Osterbrock                        *  Such a long, long time to be gone, 
carolo@cis.ucsc.edu                     *     And a short time to be there...
================================================================================

Responding to whoever relayed Scott Frost's news that the movie
will fill in events before the series began and that there will be no
new series continuing from where we currently hang: Good. 
 
I always thought the whole thing would have been better as a 
miniseries (one story with beginning-middle-end) than as an 
open-ended, "Dallas"-type soap (however creatively twisted 
and surrealised). A year ago, many of us predicted an inevitable 
slide into mediocrity, which we all saw this last season. (Nod to 
the recent poster who said "This wouldn't have happened with a 
movie.")
 
Anyway, it's a relief that we won't have to put up with 
"Twin Peaks: The Next Generation."

       Angus MacDonald; idddev@well.sf.ca.us
Opinions expressed in this message are solely my own
===   "He's dead, Jim... Wrapped in plastic."    ===

dbalcom@gmuvax.gmu.edu writes:

> >Was it just me, or did the whole Windham Earle thing seem to run into
> >a giant brick wall, or more specifically, into Bob?  As much of an insipid
> >overdone loser as he was, I was expecting a touch more from the ole
> >Earlster.  Instead he's sucked into Bob like lint to a dustbuster.
> >Bummer.  I was hoping for something--well, I don't know--more.  Just more.

On the contrary, I would have been disappointed if Earl had turned out
to be powerful in the Black Lodge.  Think about it-- Earl has embraced
EVIL as a means of gaining power.  Is he a threat to BOB?  No way...
he's playing BOB's game on BOB's turf.  Because he's useful to BOB,
BOB lets him THINK he's powerful until he oversteps his bounds by
tring to take Cooper's soul, then just squashes him like a bug.  To
BOB, Earl the wannabe is no great trophy; he was co-opted long ago.
COOPER is the prize that BOB wants to put on his mantelpiece.


-- ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// / Louise Marks Internet: marks@skat.usc.edu / / University of Southern California BITNET: marks@uscvm / /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

"In Leland Palmer, we have the kindly
family man and ethical, responsible businessman, in contrast to
Ben Horne, the scheming, double-dealing, faithless, amoral
criminal."
 
No. At the opening of the series, Leland Palmer had been Horne's
attorney, implicitly privy to much of the Horne Enterprises
scheming and amorality (though probably not to the Horne ownership
of One-Eyed Jack's, or to Ben's affair with Catherine). 
 
During Leland's crazed-grief period, we just didn't see much of
his work for Ben, but when he briefly returned to service (in the
"Mairzy Doats" scene in Ben's office), he proposed a
money-laundering scheme that sure sounded shady to me. 

       Angus MacDonald; idddev@well.sf.ca.us
Opinions expressed in this message are solely my own.

> >        Probable bad news (IMHO):
> >
> >          Lynch wants the movie to be about the last 7 days of
> >          Laura Palmer's life.  The threads left hanging in the
> >          last TV episode will probably hang forever -- and what
> >          sort of place is Peaks without Coop?

Bad news?  I think this is a GREAT idea!  There are many plot lines
that could be developed more fully with a better understanding of
what led to LP's death.  It also is the ONLY way to get mass appeal
necessary for the movie to make money.  Consider this:  everyone on
the planet watched the first episode, and the media had a field day
with the WKLP theme.  By starting earlier and leading up to that event,
the movie could stand on its own, and nobody would enter the theater
confused (although when they leave the theater is another story...).

Also, how's this for an analysis of TP, as alluded to by another post --
Suppose the central theme of TP is that when the Universe began, two
separate timelines were created - a positive time line and a negative
time line.  The two threads of time are intertwined and intersect every
20-25 years.  We live in the positive time line and the black and white lodges
exist in the negative time line.  Time is moving forward to the occupants
of the lodges, but in reverse direction to ours.  They therefore know
what's happening in our future at 20-25 year intervals.  This explains
how Laura and the LMFAP can know Dale's future.  THEY have already lived
it - in reverse.  To communicate with us, they have to talk backward,
because if they talked forward (to them), it would SOUND backward to us.

This implies a certain predestiny, for if a backwards time line started
from infinite time and worked backwards, events must have already been
predestined.  Since Lynch is reputed to be very conservative and religious,
belief in predestination may make sense.  Perhaps Bob, et al, are
messing with the machinery every 20 years and causing potential paradoxes.
It is up to the white lodge to keep this from happening.

Consider also, that if the movie addresses the time prior to Laura's
death, the Black lodge timeline would have advanced an equal amount into
its future, and they should therefore know what happened to Dale and
Annie.  Let's face it - Kyle MacLachlan WILL be in the movie! 

Brian WOOD    *House address 710 -- same as Blue Lady's apt in Blue Velvet
              *Just got through studying major religious works like Ben Horne
              *Live next to a grove of TREES
              *My wife's aunt's name is Annie; my sister's name is Anne
              *My wife grew up next to a forest; next street - Glastonbury

In article <2800@calmasd.Prime.COM>, jpb@calmasd.Prime.COM (Jan Bielawski) writes:
> > It seems to me the two are the same.  "Entering" a Lodge consists
> > of a change in one's perceptive faculties.  I.e. the Lodges are not *places*;
> > they are right here and it's only a change inside you that lets you
> > experience them while the ordinary world seems to have disappeared.
> > Presumably for a person who is sufficiently "developed" this change
> > in perception can be effected by an act of will.  "Normal" people
> > and "normal" occult beings cannot do that unless the configuration
> > of some "ambient" energies makes such a change of perception particularly
> > easy (this happens when Jupiter and Saturn meet).

Here we go again -- this is too reminiscent of all the arguments about "is
there really a BOB or is Leland just psychotic?"  Lynch seems to have been careful
to damage any point of view that tries to claim that any of this is hallucinatory,
psychotic, or any other sort of mental figment.

> > The question of "but where did their material bodies go while
> > in the 'waiting room'?" is not very important.  Maybe people who are
> > near are also affected by some kind of light trance.

Real far-fetched.  It got Dale, Andy, and Truman, and they saw everything in the
circle except Windom, Annie, and Dale, including the braining of Annie?

> > I suppose when you are in the waiting room (and I am inclined
> > to think we haven't seen the Lodges themselves yet) -- or when you
> > are in the equivalent state of consciousness -- you are able to see
> > the good and bad components as *separate beings*, not unified as usual.
> > It is only a mode of perception that doesn't necessarily correspond
> > to an "objective truth".  So Laura is one Laura but she is manifest
> > as two beings -- while Coop/whoever is in that state.  Coop himself
> > becomes two Coops (or so it seems to him) and while in this state
> > the two sides can fight for the territory.
> > 

The presence of Laura, Leland, and Maddy in the waiting room/lodge argues
against this, since those being are no longer around to inspect in any explainable
state of consciousness short of complete fantasy.  Sure, Coop could be imagining
them, but now the "believable explanation" for the otherwise "unbelievable"
Black Lodge is fast becoming equally unbelievable.

My take on all this is that Lynch is not using the Black Lodge INSIDE THE SHOW
as a metaphor for anything else.  In the show, it is real.  Now artistically,
he can certainly be using it as a metaphor, just as he can be using the town of
Twin Peaks as a metaphor.  But inside the town of Twin Peaks, the Lodges are real.
-- cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet...

In article <1991Jun13.180310.13794@indetech.com> lzs@indetech.com (Lynn Z. Schneider x2077) writes:
> >In article <1991Jun11.212725.19036@zip.eecs.umich.edu> welcher@eecs.umich.edu (James Welcher) writes:
>> >>
>> >>Sound familiar?  The last verse:
>> >>
>> >>"You hold the key to love and fear,
>> >> In your trembling hand  <---------------Obvious "quivering hand"
>> >> Just one key unlocks them both,                 reference
>> >> It's there at your command."
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>These lyrics are from a song the Indigo Girls cover called
>> >>"(Everybody) Get Together".  I can't recall the songwriter at the moment.
>> >>It's obviously a reference to WHITE AND BLACK LODGES!!!
>> >>
> >
> >I don't know how old you are, but another group in the 1960s (the Byrds?)
> >wrote this song, "C'mon people now...gotta love one another right now."
> >I think the year was like 1968. The Indigo Girls have done a cover of
> >this song. It has nothing to do with Twin Peaks.

The song was originally done by The Youngbloods.  Jesse Colin Young was
the leader of the band.

Bruce Rodean
rodean@hpfclg.fc.hp.com

In article <33556@usc.edu>, marks@skat.usc.edu (Louise Marks) writes:
> > On a second watching I kept track of this.  If you take the statue as
> > indicating WHICH room Cooper is in (no statue by the entrance to the
> > first -- called the "Waiting Room" by the LMFAP -- and a statue by the
> > entrance to the second room), then Cooper moves back and forth between
> > the 1st and 2nd rooms several times.*
> > 
> > Then... Laura reappears with glassy eyes and starts screaming.
> > Flashes of Windom Earle's face are alternated with hers.  I take this
> > to mean that WE is now controlling what Cooper sees.
> > 
> > After this scene, we never see the statue again, the logical
> > conclusion being that either Cooper keeps entering the same room (the 1st)
> > over and over again, or he is running between the 1st room and a
> > doppelganger ("the wrong room") 1st room.
> > 
> > 
> > *the only divergence from consistent spatial relationships is when
> > Cooper looks in the 2nd room for the first time.  The furniture is in
> > the corner closest to him.  Subsequently, it is in the far corner.

OK, maybe I REALLY need a life.  But I replayed this scene and paid special
attention to the zig-zag floor pattern.  From room 1, looking at the statue,
the central zig, plus both zigs closest to the two curtain walls point TOWARDS
you.  From room 2 (from the statue), obviously, they point away.  Cooper moves
absolutely consistently from room 1 to room 2, despite the fact that the statue
has disappeared in the meanwhile, many times.  However, there is a lapse.  Coop
meets BOB in Room 1, where BOB takes WE's soul.  He leaves room 1 abruptly, just
before anti-Cooper enters from the other side, laughs along with BOB, and then
chases him.  Coop runs up the hall the wrong way (he is now leaving room 2 and
entering room 1 according to the floor, but not according to his previous
whereabouts) and meets Leland in the hall, looks back, sees anti-Coop, etc.  At
that point, Coop runs THROUGH a room, out the other side, and all bets are off.

(There may be a thesis in here somewhere.)
-- cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet...

In article <1991Jun12.212039.635@mac.cc.macalstr.edu>, sdbeck@mac.cc.macalstr.edu writes:
> > OK, about Pete and Audrey's surviving the bomb blast:
> > -With all the debate about using the "glasses in the tree" as proof of either
> > Andrew's or the attendant's death, and of the force of the explosion, it seems
> > odd that everybody is ignoring the shot of the bank's windows getting blasted
> > out.

Don't confuse shock with gas generation.  Explosives plants in the 40's used to be
built with loose roofs, so that the relief of the roof blowing off would save the
people inside from overpressure.  They worked, too.  (A colonel friend of mine met
his wife-to-be that way.  Blew out of the swinging doors and landed on her desk.)

But you're right -- Andrew and Pete's faces LIT UP with the explosion.  They're
either equally burned badly, or both gone.
-- cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet...

In article <SCOTTN.91Jun12134046@cbnewsl.ATT.COM>, scottn@cbnewsl.ATT.COM (scott.h.novack) writes:
> > 1) There are many points when you see Coop entering a room or being in the
> > hallway from a hard cut from the previous scene.  There's no reason to
> > assume that he left the previous room the way he came in.

I disagree.  Until he begins to be chased by anti-Coop, it is very clear he exits
each room the exact same way he came in (except for the first room, which he
enters from the "outside" originally and then crosses, to end up in the coridor).

> > 3) Coop running from his doppelganger.  Notice that he went down several
> > corridors before he got caught.

Yes, he begins running THROUGH rooms here, but not before.`
-- cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet...

In article <91163.235206KRK4@psuvm.psu.edu>, KRK4@psuvm.psu.edu writes:

There's a lot of novel and possibly outrageous speculation here, but...
 
> > The glasses, I think, are Andrew's so the blast did
> > not necessarily kill the bank manager, as others have supposed.

If you have a tape, review it.  Andrew is NOT wearing glasses.  Check out
the squared-oval shape of the lenses.  These are Del's glasses.

> > I haven't seen so many artistically dead critics since Maddie's murder (When so
> >  many people complained about the "glorification of violence against women").

Amen.  Modern TV sanitizes murder.  Maddie's murder was disturbing.  Murder SHOULD
be disturbing.
-- cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet...

In article <6083@lectroid.sw.stratus.com> hship@sw.stratus.com (Howard Ship) writes:
> >The blast we see left a tiny box, traveled THROUGH the vault and
> >Audrey, out through the anteroom to the vault (which had no windows),
> >took a sharp left, and blew out all the furniture and windows of the bank.
> >That was some good strong stuff.  That kind of force would have ripped
> >Audrey appart.
> >
> >But, Lynch sometimes doesn't care about "reality", so its possible Audrey
> >will be back in a wheelchair (in the mythical TP:TMP).

I predict that Audrey and Pete recover from their injuries, but due to
the intensity of the blast, they HAVE TO TALK LIKE THIS SO THEY CAN HEAR
THEMSELVES JUST LIKE GORDON COLE DOES!!  Audrey will then become a sucessful
lecturer on ecology, since she won't need a PA system to be heard.  Pete 
will become President, due to a nostalgic craze for Ronald Reagan's can't-
hear-you-the-the-helicopter's-too-damn-loud pres conferences.

Or else they're grilled meat patties (with head wounds, of course).

jimbo

In article <BARB.91Jun12233313@chamarti.ai.mit.edu>, barb@zurich.ai.mit.edu
  (Barb Miller) writes...

> >before he can again encounter the Grail and restore the Fisher King
> >and the wasteland that the King's land has become.  [Well--so maybe
> >Cooper SHOULD have asked what was in that cup of coffee.  Maybe it
> >could have healed all those wounds that we kept seeing on people...
> >The Holy Grail as a cup of coffee?  In Twin Peaks, it wouldn't
> >surprise me.   Hmm...]

AH YES, IT'S ALL CLEAR NOW... THE FISH IN THE COFFEEPOT... AND DON'T DONUTS
COME IN BOXES OF TWELVE?


JAMES DOLAN                                      V088KJ6A@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU

In article <DPASSAGE.91Jun14002602@soda.berkeley.edu> dpassage@soda.berkeley.edu (David G. Paschich) writes:
> >
> >You'd think that people smart enough to figure out rn and Pnews could
> >figure out how to program their VCR's.  
> >
> >:)
> >

I left the smiley face above so everyone would know that you and I and
everyone else knew you were joking.  Howsomeever...

Haven't you ever made a mistake while sitting and reading via rn or Pnews?
Just typed the wrong key by mistake?  Of course you have.  But the system
responds immediately, and you correct your entry.  With VCR's you don't get
the feedback that tells you there was a problem until the show you wanted
to record is over and done with!  Imagine if the only way you got to read
News was by hand-editing a script from scratch each time you wanted to
download some new articles.  Hah!  Guess how many times you'd get the
materials you wanted!

Anywho, believe me, I've (he sheepishly admits) recorded and archived
literally thousands of videotapes.  I know my videoequipment disturbingly
well:-)  Yet I still make too many incredibly annoying errors!  Sigh.

No biggie.  No flame.  Just the facts, mam.
-- -larryy@apple.com "You wouldn't recognize a *subtle plan* if it painted itself purple, and danced naked upon a harpsichord, singing, 'Subtle Plans are Here Again'." - Edmund Blackadder

In article <TOM.91Jun13161308@kether.webo.dg.com> tom@kether.webo.dg.com (Tom Sullivan) writes:
>>>>>> >>>>>> On 13 Jun 91 03:20:39 GMT, sdbeck@mac.cc.macalstr.edu said:
> >..> bank scenes, and I can't remember if there were stairs in the corner. In
> >..> anycase, an explosion that blew out the windows probably was too strong for
> >..> Pete to be saved by the door on the safety deposit box. And Audrey, well, she
> >..> was chained to the door that the blast would have gone through en route to the
> >BUT, the blowing out of the windows just shows the great buildup of
> >air pressure from the blast.  Other than having punctured eardrums,

actually I don't think you can argue about this too much - probably the
script writers wrote 'bomb goes off' and needing a way to graphically show this
they blew the windows out of a building somewhere. I'm sure they didn't
calculate blast pressures to figure out who got killed - next year (if there
is/was to be one) they would figure out who they want back and would have
started with Lucy summing up by saying something like:

"... the bank was blown up, Pete died, Audry is in hospital,
there is one unidentified body ....

..... and Agent Cooper is posessed by Bob"


Paul

-- Paul Campbell UUCP: ..!mtxinu!taniwha!paul AppleLink: CAMPBELL.P Tom Metzger's White Ayrian Resistance has been enjoined to stop selling Nazi Bart Simpson t-shirts - Tom of course got it wrong, Bart is yellow, not white.

raveling@Unify.com (Paul Raveling) writes:
>Last night I phoned Scott Frost again, and got a couple
>fresh bits of into.
>Probable good news (?):
  >Details are not final for the Twin Peaks movie, but the
  >commitments to do it are quite close to being nailed down.
> >Probable bad news (IMHO):
  >Lynch wants the movie to be about the last 7 days of
  >Laura Palmer's life.  The threads left hanging in the
  >last TV episode will probably hang forever -- and what
  >sort of place is Peaks without Coop?

       The only reason I can think of that Lynch would want to make
a movie about the final days of Laura Palmer is because he is obsessed
with actress Sheryl Lee.  But I think if they split the movie between 
this and Cooper getting his soul back and defeating BOB, it would be cool.

                                          Phil

Most of the things I noticed during the finale have already been mentioned
by the rest of you except for one (small) thing. Did anyone else besides me
see Cooper's first line after waking up in his hotel room with Truman and
Doc Hayward standing over him ("I wasn't sleeping!") as a message directly
from David Lynch to the viewing audience that he wasn't going to cop out
with a Wizard of Oz-like ending? As soon as I say Cooper in bed with Truman
and Doc standing over him, I thought, "Oh, no! The whole thing's been a
dream!". Then, as if on cue, Lynch seemed to be saying directly to me that,
no, it wasn't a dream.

Mark Collier
Hewlett-Packard Company
Loveland, Colorado
collier@hpsmpa.lvld.hp.com

How did Annie get injured in the Lodge?

-- Scott Turner

Some theory one-liners--but remember my predeliction for simple
solutions (if there's no hint for the complex ones), and a
tendency to trivialize Lynch's work as being weird for it's
own sake.


Is there any reason to go for any of these "spiritual" theories?
All the evidence holds up the Black Lodge & White Lodge as
physical manifestations--sure, they can symbolize good and evil
and all this stuff, but I don't see any reason to hold that
it's not physical to begin with, and only symbolizing, not being,
other conflicts.

Let's be a little cautious about analyzing things--you're bound
to find stuff that was at a minimum not *conciously* intended
by the writers/directors--for example, Dr. Jacoby's glasses and
the police car lights (some 3-d glasses are red and green, some
are red and blue), or the black-and-white floor in the waiting
room symbolizing the black and white lodges superposed--because
the floor was RED and white.  (I *looked*. Over and over.  Look
at my 400-line summary again.)

Was it Catherine or Thomas Eckhart who planted the bomb?  Well,
what evidence do we have each way?  Pro-Thomas: it was perfectly
in character (I expected a bomb in the original package!), the
note was signed 'Thomas'.  Pro-Catherine: it was perfectly in
character (was it? would she kill her brother and blow up the
bank they were using?), the key moved between scenes, how could
Thomas know Andrew would open it, and Catherine would have had
a much easier time setting it up.  But then again, does it matter?
It's perfectly in character for either of them, so twist that
it was Catherine wouldn't reveal anything new; the only difference
it'd make is that she'd probably feel guiltly about Pete.  Why
would they go to such subtle effort (moving the key as
the only real clue) for such a subtle change (the outcome is
the same, the motivation is different)?

Why should we think Bob lied to Cooper, just because it fits
your theory better?  Bob was at the height of his power in
the Black Lodge (look at WE); Bob hasn't made a habit of
lying, either (the Leland/Bob speech in the cell).  If Lynch
isn't going to give you a clue that something's up, I see
no reason to go for these theories.  (When we learned it was
Leland, didn't all sorts of things click in your mind?  If
you had previously theorized it was Leland, you should have had
all those things as clues from Lynch.)

About the black lodge topology: if you watch the closing sequence,
you get the definite feeling the Cooper is making progress at
getting out.  And he is consistently running out a different
exit then he came in.  It seems likely that this was the
intended effect: he's nearly out.  Again, I think the untopology
of the rooms as he goes through them the "first" time is merely
due to "I don't care"ness on the part of Lynch--not that it's
supposed to be dreamlike "things change as you turn your back
on them", but rather that he was more concerned with something
entirely different from topology: tension.  If you read the
"script" I sent out, or rewatch it, you can see how it's
clearly building to a climax, and the changes in the rooms
is used to fuel that--you can see that Cooper is in each
room for less and less time until he encounters Annie and
we get the big climax.  (I'm sorry.  I refuse to believe that
when Cooper-1 runs across the penultimate room when he leaves
and the zigzag stripes are turned in a different direction, that
there is some deep significance--although I also doubt that
it was a continuity error, since they had to turn 90 degrees
on the set to do it--but there was no furniture.)

For those who insist on the "there are two rooms and one
corridor" theory (ignoring the entry corridor and the closing
sequence), I'll digest my script down so we can see who
and what was in each room, calling the first room the Waiting
Room and the second room the Black Lodge, for no good reason.
Now if you want to theorize about why who was where, you
can check it against the facts:


Waiting RoomBlack Lodge

furniture
LMFAP
Singer, "I'll see you in the trees"
"When you see me again, it won't be me"
"This is the waiting room"
Laura Palmer
"I'll see you again in 25 years"
SDC, coffee, Giant: "One and the same"
"Wow, Bob, wow!  Fire walk with me."
furniture
"Wrong way."
furniture rearranged/Cooper enters
    from other side/continuity error
"Another friend."
"I'm Maddy.  Watch out for my cousin."
no furniture
"Doppelganger"
Doppelganger Laura Palmer "Meanwhile"
WE image cut in between LP images
no furniture
Cooper finds he's bleeding, goes back

Caroline & Cooper on floor
Annie & Cooper on the flor
They disappear
Annie "I saw the face of the man who
    killed me.  It was my husband."
Doppelganger Caroline "It's me."
Annie "You must be mistaken."
Doppelganger Laura
Windom Earle, Annie
"If you give me your soul, I'll let
    Annie live."  "I will."
Bob. "You go.  He is wrong.  He can't
  ask for your soul.  I will take his."
Cooper leaves, Doppelganger Cooper
  laughs with Bob.
Cooper runs away through various room, encounters
Doppleganger Leland in hall, Doppelganger Cooper chases
"I did not kill anybody."


buzzard @ eng.umd.edu   Merriversity of Uniland, College Purgatory, MD 20742
I was objectdestroy()ed by bob on ubermud and all I got was this lousy .sig!
Can I have a biscuit with my facts, ma'am?

In article <33556@usc.edu> marks@skat.usc.edu (Louise Marks) writes:

   *the only divergence from consistent spatial relationships is when
   Cooper looks in the 2nd room for the first time.  The furniture is in
   the corner closest to him.  Subsequently, it is in the far corner.

It's more than this, though.  The jagged tooth pattern on the floor of
the hallway runs parallel to the ``rear'' wall.  When Cooper first
enters room 2, the pattern in the room is consistent with this.  When
he re-enters it the pattern is running parallel to the hallway, as if
the room had been rotated.

-30-
Bob

From the SF Chronicle Personals column, Thursday, June 13 (typed in
without permission):

The show is over, but the remorse lingers on. Harley Peyton, writer and
producer of "Twin Peaks," has expressed his regrets about the chess
match between Dale Cooper and Windom Earle, which began last January at
the behest of chess player and series co-creator Mark Frost.

Frost quickly lost interest in the game, Peyton told the Vialage Voice,
and the rest of the writers plotted the moves with sporadic advice from
the "self-ordained chess experts" on the set.

Chess maven Helmer Pelaez told the Voice the game was "pretty dumb" and
Nick Conticello said it "had no objective chess value" and was
"hopelessly boring."

Peyton said he was sorry. "We weren't as exact as we should have been,"
he said. "It became a pain in the ass."

xxmartn@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov writes:

> > And also Major Briggs description of the WL as a "shinning white mansion"..
> > of course that could NOT be the WL...or it may be his INTERPRETATION of 
> > the WL.

Perhaps the lodges look different to everyone. Coop, having had the dream
of the Red Room, used it as the model for his Lodge-image (much as we
often recycle bits of real places in our dreams). If so, the whole adventure
would have looked very different to Windom Earl and to Annie.

It is happening again.      It is happening again.      It is happening again.
Joe Zitt ...cs.utexas.edu!kvue!zitt!joe (512)450-1916

Early friday morning, a young man broke the glass out of one of the 
ground floor doors of the Florida State Capital.  Much of my information
is hearsay but the story seems to be that he baricaded himself in the
Sergant at arms office and sent out demands on the fax machine.  Among 
other demands, he is said to have asked for liquor, LSD, chinese food and
600 jelly donuts.  Tallahassee's finest had the place surrounded with all
sorts of high powered weaponary, swat teams and the bomb robot.  The man
gave up to the cops when they faked meeting his demand of a national network
news story on his concerns.  He said that he was mad that folks didn't have
food to eat and places to stay.  When he surrendured, he was smoking a cigar
and drinking whiskey.  At last report, there was no word on the fate of teh
600 jelly donuts.  

Sorry for the interruption with real life....now back to your regularly
scheduled discussion of television fantasies.

Davie O'Brightbill who's feeling irish and his friends.

>>>>> >>>>> On 14 Jun 91 13:54:26 GMT, swk004@muvms3.bitnet (Connie Leinen, swk004@muvms3.bitnet, Marshall U) said:

Connie> Wild ramblings and incoherent thoughts about the finale and series
Connie> in general...not particulary a theory...but:

Connie> perhaps the disappearance of the Venus statue is a visual symbol
Connie> that Coop has stopped acting with a love motivation and is now
Connie> acting out of fear (I haven't reviewed the tape to see if this
Connie> holds water).

I was considering the disappearace as well...  I had wondered if
perhaps the statue actually WAS (or symbolized some attribute of)
Annie and/or Dale's connection to her.  It left the scene after the
Dopplegangers started (better check this again though).  The statue
was also in the waiting room when Dale first entered.  I like your
theory as well!

Connie> I think the oil will get one into the lodges even when the planets
Connie> aren't aligned or perhaps the oil gets Bob out of the lodge.

Nice theory, why not?

Connie> Josie wasn't there because she's in the doorknob.  The log lady's
Connie> husband wasn't there because he's in the log.  Why some go to 
Connie> wood and some go to the lodge is a question I can't even begin
Connie> to theorize. 

Why is the log lady's husband in the log?  I agree on Josie (for sure! whew!)

Connie> The seemingly strange behavior of the residents is accounted for
Connie> by the flip flop of time (IMHO).  I think everytime Coop crossed
Connie> a hall, time in TP wavered or flipped or reversed or something.
Connie> The order the letters were placed under fingernails would seem
Connie> to backup the random time theory.

Connie> Based on random time, I'm kind of hoping that Pete and Audrey weren't
Connie> in the bank when it exploded.  I think the glasses belong to the 
Connie> old man.  However, this isn't logical even with a random time 
Connie> theory (why would the box be open), so chalk this one up to 
Connie> wishful thinking.  Random time theory could also account
Connie> for the unbelievable youth of the sycamore trees.

Connie> My really stupid theory on how the Douglas Firs got changed
Connie> to sycamores in the finale:  DL's son came home from Sunday
Connie> school singing the song about Zaccheus up in the sycamore
Connie> tree.  For those unfamiliar with this Bible story, Zaccheus
Connie>  was a man of small stature and some historians believe the 
Connie> actual translation (not the King James Bible translation) 
Connie> indicates Zaccheus was a dwarf or a
Connie> midget.  Jesus was passing through
Connie> town and Zaccheus couldn't see him because of his small
Connie> stature so he climbed a sycamore tree.  He was then 
Connie> noticed by Jesus and saved from eternal damnation after
Connie> making a number of promises regarding the changing of 
Connie> his evil ways.  Somehow I think ol' David would have

No Kidding!  Zaccheus was a tax collector.  Evil occupation!!

Connie> gotten a charge out of this story.

Connie> In the dream sequence, we saw the shadow on the curtain.  Just as
Connie> coop only sees the giant and the little man, I think the major only
Connie> sees the hooded figure and someone else.  Perhaps the shadow on the
Connie> curtain somehow portends Hawk's help and the Major's rescue of Coop.

Connie> I think the voice from Sarah Palmer is the voice of one of the
Connie> entities that only the major sees.

Connie> When Leland was possessed by Bob, he still had enough of himself
Connie> left to leave the letter clues and to tell about recognizing
Connie> that face.  Coop will also leave clues, hopefully not as obscure.

Arg!  What a thought!!  Probably true, though....Bob WOULD want to
advertise....but maybe all that was to explicitly lure Cooper!

Connie> Sorry, this is so long...but TP withdrawal seems to be happening
Connie> already.

Connie> Connie

In article <1991Jun15.000210.19516@aero.org> srt@aero.org (Scott "TCB" Turner) writes:
   How did Annie get injured in the Lodge?

We don't know that she did.  Cooper was unconscious, but apparently
uninjured.  It's quite possible that Annie was just knocked out by the
experience.  What we saw in the red rooms was not necessarily real/
permanent; for example, Cooper's wounds which came and went.

Muffy

>>>>> >>>>> On 14 Jun 91 18:48:14 GMT, russellp@CAE.WISC.EDU (Russell Perry) said:

R> A couple things I've not seen mentioned:

R> 1) Is Hawk dead?  I think he was the person who answered the phone just
      before the bomb went off.

I didn't recognize the guard (that's who I thought it was).  I looked,
and I didn't catch him as being Hawk.

R> 2) Was the explosion related to BOB (and the flames in the lodge) in any
      way?

VERY INTERESTING Theory.  I would think that such a connection is very
possible and perhaps even probable.  Since the whole area is entwined
with the forces in that area, the "soul explosions" in the lodge could
have corresponded with the bank explosion, that being a temporal
manifestation of the forces unleashed.  Also, in the Windon Earle soul
stealing scene, the flames that erupt would seem to be Cooper's soul.
There is a distinct direction to the flames.  At first, they're
shooting OUT of Cooper (his soul burning off, or simply escaping, as
the soul itself is probably "fire".  Then, when BOB comes on the
scene, the flames shoot back into Cooper!  SO...It would appear that
WE actually did TAKE (or start taking) Cooper's soul.  Bob steps in,
and says no-ya-don't to WE, and the flames shoot back!

R> 3) If the LMFAP said "the next time you see me it will not be me", why did
      Cooper believe him the next time he saw him and he said "wrong way!"?

Exactly!  Fantastic key.  1) Is Lynch this subtle and consistant?
Probably I would think.  In that case, Dale's returning to the other
room (RoomB?) was in error.

R> 4) Did Dell (the old guy at the bank) remind anyone else of a conmbination
      of Senior Droolcup (the speed) and the LMFAP (the walk)?

R> Also, about the "one and the same" line.  I believe that meant Senor
   Droolcupand the Giant are the same.  Otherwise, why would the Giant and
   LM on the map be separate?

R> Well?
R> ************>   russellp@cae.wisc.edu   <*******************************
R> Russ Perry Jr   104 S Randall Ave   Madison WI 53715   608-256-1910
R> WARNING: I may have access removed due to graduation.  If you need to keep in
R> contact, please save the above info, as email may be bouncing soon (~Aug 25)!

  Some other comments upon a second viewing of the finale...

1.  OK, so Andrew Packard wasn't wearing glasses at the time of the explosion,
so sue me.  I still think that the glasses are just a part of artistic license
and that the size of the explosion we saw should not have killed Audrey.

2.  The safety deposit key did not seem to me like it had moved, but rather lik
e it was shot from another angle.  It may have moved a very tiny bit, but not e
nough to justify this as a bona fide clue.  I still think Catherine had no moti
ve to do this, and that Thomas did.

3.  The indian war whoop followed by "Hallelujah!" indicates to me that Hawk is
 to be one of the rescuers of Cooper, eventually, and that Dale says "Halleluja
h!" after he is saved.

4.  What Sarah Palmer says is "I am in the Black Lodge with Agent Cooper."  The
n, from a shot of the BL, a voice (of the same person speaking through Sarah?)
says, "I'm waiting for you."

5.  I have heard that the movie is to be about the last days of LP's life.  So
where does that leave Coop?  Actually, the one plot point I need cleared up is:
What's the deal with Gordon Cole's hearing problem, anyway?

Right when Dale was about to leave the Lodge his Doppelganger grabbed him, 
right after that it seems that the camera shifts to a 'Dale-eye view' of Bob 
holding him and laughing quite a lot.

Over Bob's shoulder I can see a darkly dressed figure moving out of the room, 
I assume he is leaving the Lodge.  It's my theory that this is proof that 
Dale is still in the Lodge as a prisoner of Bob.  Unfortunately I can't prove 
this since my VCR has only 2 heads and the picture gets kinda jumpy when I 
slow advance the tape.  

Can someone prove/disprove this figure in the background?  It might be just a 
trick of the lighting or the curtain billowing in the breeze.

Alex.

_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Alex Yentner        /  The Cellar BBS: (215) 336-9503
1609 E. Worrell St. / Q: My girlfriend just took me to Santa Barbara,
Phila., PA  19124   /    have you ever had a 48 hour orgasm?
(215) 288-9554      / A: No, I've never even BEEN to Santa Barbara!
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-

>>>>> >>>>> On 14 Jun 91 21:20:32 GMT, cdt@sw.stratus.com (Chris Tavares) said:

Chris> In article <1991Jun13.162332.6103@pimacc.pima.edu>, vcooper@pimacc.pima.edu (Vanya Cooper) writes:
> > In article <TOM.91Jun12094726@kether.webo.dg.com>, tom@kether.webo.dg.com (Tom Sullivan) writes:
>> > > 
>> > > Perhaps the mark the major and the log lady have is due to facing the
>> > > black lodge and NOT getting corrupted....If so, perhaps he made it to
>> > > the white lodge...
>> > > 
> > 
> > Probably the giant is actually the doorman for the White lodge and if you pass
> > the test, he will stamp your hand (neck or whatever) as you leave so you can
> > get back in later ...

Chris> Something is beginning to ring with the ring of truth here.  But has Margaret really
Chris> been to the White Lodge?  She hands the oil around like it's all new to her.  She did
Chris> explain the circumstances under which she found she had the mark.  What exactly did
Chris> she say, again?  Was it consonant with her having "blacked out" like the Major?

Chris> -- 

Chris> cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
Chris> OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...

It happened to her as a child.  She was gone for a day.  The rest, I
can't remember.  No doubt it's in TP: The ^Twin-Peaks^ Timeline - Complete
posted by Edwin Nomura (enomura@ucsd.edu).

Is it just me, or are others unsatisfied by one detail of the last two
minutes of the season (and TV?) swan song of TP...

For me, all of the fearfulness of Cooper's possession by BOB is drained away
by the careless treatment that BOB gives his host...  I mean, Harry Truman
is GOING to notice that his compatriot tried to drive his head through a
bathroom mirror...  and if BOB's further behavior follows in this line, no
one is really going to be threatened by a BOB-possessed Coop, since Coop will
be on his way to a rubber room....

The head-butt-to-the-mirror scene is understandable (to me) if seen in the
light that DALE, not BOB, drove his head into the mirror, trying to resist
BOB's control;  otherwise, after all that has been going on, Truman is going
to suspect that something is a wee bit wrong with Dale Cooper.

On the positive side, maybe *Annie* gets to be the one to make the big
sacrifice by killing Dale to save him :-).

$.02...

I was kind of disappointed in the ending.  Here is the great and evil Bob
and the worst thing he can do is squeeze the tube of toothpaste from the
middle.   ;-)

In article <28568451.3089@ics.uci.edu> bvickers@ics.uci.edu (Brett J. Vickers) writes:
> >xxmartn@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov writes:
>> >>Fire, WALK WITH ME !!!!!!!!!!
>> >>
>> >>I though we had killed that one.
> >
> >Jeff Martin:
> >
> >Have you ever thought of writing an article with a little SUBSTANCE?
> >I can't tell you how annoyed I am when I see you quote an entire article,
> >and then add one little line that says, "Yeah I noticed that too!"  Argh!
> >Some of us don't have all the time in the world to be reading article after
> >meaningless article.  Your one/two-liner articles (there are tons of them)
> >waste more bandwidth than they're worth.  Not to mention your 10-line
> >signature.
> >
> >Methinks you should take a look at the net etiquette rules.
> >
> >--
> >bvickers@ics.uci.edu | "Only a large-scale popular movement toward
> >brett@ucippro.bitnet |  decentralization and self-help can arrest the
> >                     |  present tendency toward statism." - Aldous Huxley

Yeah, that really bugs me, too.

-- genoa@athena.mit.edu <<CRASH!>>

In article <1991Jun11.212725.19036@zip.eecs.umich.edu> welcher@eecs.umich.edu (James Welcher) writes:
> >
> >If you're actually reading this group without seeing the finale...
> >beware of spoilers.


> >I'm posting about something weird I noticed while watching the
> >show.These lyrics popped into my head as I watched:
> >
> >"Love is but a song we sing... fear's the way we die..."
> >
> >Sound familiar?  The last verse:
> >
> >"You hold the key to love and fear,
> > In your trembling hand  <---------------Obvious "quivering hand"
> > Just one key unlocks them both, reference
> > It's there at your command."
> >
> >
> >These lyrics are from a song the Indigo Girls cover called
> >"(Everybody) Get Together".  I can't recall the songwriter at the moment.
> >It's obviously a reference to WHITE AND BLACK LODGES!!!


Don't forget the song "Closer To Fine:"

Darkness has a hunger that's insatiable,
Lightness has a call that's hard to hear...

> >Anyways, I say he deserved it.  If someone asks you to give up your
> >soul, you JUST DON'T DO IT!!! PERIOD!!!  Sure, he loved Annie, but
> >COME ON COOPER!  MR.TIBET/MR. SPIRITUALITY! HA!!!  If you give up THAT
> >part of you which is capable of love, what can you gain??  If you kill
> >that part of you which Annie loves, what do you do for her???DUMB
> >DUMB DUMB move Cooper!  I thought you were wiser!  *I'D'VE* took a
> >couple of swings a WE before I forked over my bloody soul!

I agree!  I know Windom thought he was so powerful when he entered the
Lodge, but I have no idea why Cooper didn't react much to anything he did.

--
  *  From the disk of:|  jms@vanth.uucp |  "Let's become
  Jim Shaffer, Jr.|  amix.commodore.com!vanth!jms  |   alive again."
  37 Brook Street|  uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms |
  Montgomery, PA 17752|  72750.2335@compuserve.com |   --Yes

In article <1991Jun11.221007.25362@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> mjf@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Michael J Flory) writes:
> >
> >Yes, a statue of _Venus._  Saturn and Jupiter are not alone in the current
> >planetary conjuction -- even in the smoggy skies off Manhattan we can see
> >that Venus is the brightest of the three... I took the Venus de Milo to be

That's not Saturn, that's Mars.  Saturn is nowhere near any of them.

> >Beverages, potions, whatever, they're important in many myths.  When the
> >coffee froze, it seemed a logical result of the freezing of time.  But when
> >it turned viscous, it could have been time picking up steam again -- or was
> >it oil?  The oil of the gods is _burnt_ -- as are the offerings to the gods.

The coffee scene reminded me of something which takes place periodically,
although I can't remember the time or place.  A certain church has the
dried blood of a saint in a bottle, and on his day it turns to liquid
again.It's occasionally reported on the news, though it's been quite a
few years since I last saw it.

--
  *  From the disk of:|  jms@vanth.uucp |  "Let's become
  Jim Shaffer, Jr.|  amix.commodore.com!vanth!jms  |   alive again."
  37 Brook Street|  uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms |
  Montgomery, PA 17752|  72750.2335@compuserve.com |   --Yes

Yes, I know that this is reaching, but what else do we have?

The phrase "How's Annie?" is repeated so much in the end of the
movie Finale that I feel that there may be some meaning hidden
in it.

I loaded up the phrase in my mind, and then played it backwards.
You would never guess what came out..."In A While".

Ok, so it comes out "Ina Wah", but if you say it really fast, it
sounds like "In A While."   Is Lynch trying to tell us to wait a
while, and Peaks will be back?  

Probably not, but it was worth a shot.

........................................................................
: These are my two cents, and frankly, I think they are over-priced    :
:                tweek@tweekco.uucp                                    :
:           or   tweek@wet.uucp                                        :
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

There seems to be some debate as to who is a doppelganger of who.  

I vote for:
- The Giant <=> Sr. Droolcup (room service waiter in the "waiting room"?)
- The LMFAP <=> Bob (reasons: never in a scene together, appearance of LMFAP
  often follows appearance of Bob, my interpretation of "when you see me again,
  it (I?) won't be me.")

Another: Coop <=> WE (at least in the "lodge plane"). Reasons:
- The chess game metaphor had suggested Coop and WE as the W/B kings.
- We don't see the "antiCooper" until after the scene with WE.  Maybe Bob
  took WE's soul and placed it in Coop (CooBobWe??) 
- Cooper's urgent need for dental hygiene may be related to the condition
  WE's teeth were in at the end of his conversation with Leo.

One more: Laura | Annie <=> Maddie | Caroline
- just a hunch.  They could be aligned differently, I just grouped them by
  hair color.  Only their hair dresser knows for sure...

How about some more stupid acronyms:
- OWL = Occupant, White Lodge
- OATS = One And The Same (as in "mares eat OATS and does eat OATS...")

my brain hurts...

jimbo

In article <7087@male.EBay.Sun.COM>, duane@thismoment.EBay.Sun.COM
(Duane Day) writes:
> > In article <109772@sgi.sgi.com> sjohnson@texas.vlsi.sgi.com (Scott
Johnson) writes:
>> > >Did anyone else notice the paleness of all of the characters at the
>> > >beginning?  Especially Windom when he first appears.  It looked like
>> > >he'd been rolling in the flour.  And when he smiled, I thought his
>> > >teeth were black.  Am I going crazy? 
> > 
>> > >Please someone reaffirm me here.
> > 
> > 
> > Hello, Scott.  You *do* exist.
> > 
> > I'll reaffirm what you saw, also:  Windom was indeed pale, and his
> > teeth were black - in fact, his whole mouth seemed dark.  Snacking
> > on tarantulas, perhaps.  

Maybe Windom Earle was in one of his disguises.  Perhaps he was trying
to fool the tarantulas, in order to catch them.  :-)

I'll add that Donna Hayward seemed quite pale also, when talking to
Ben Horne at the Miss Twin Peaks Contest. 

--
Frederick J. Igo                                            igo@hri.com
Horizon Research, Inc.                                   (617) 466-8300


"There are powerful forces of evil in the world. It is some
 men's fate to face great darkness. We each choose how to react.
 If the choice is fear, then we become vulnerable to darkness.
 There are ways to resist. You, sir, were blessed with certain
 gifts. In this respect, you are not alone. Have you ever heard
 of the White Lodge?"
  -- Major Briggs (2010)

In article <818@tivoli.UUCP> lark@tivoli.com (Lar Kaufman) writes:
> >There we could discuss things like Blue Velvet, Eraserhead, Wild at Heart, 
> >and, of course, the forthcoming TP movie.

Speaking of Wild at Heart, I noticed last night that the hotel manager
in New Orleans is Del the banker in the TP finale!! Same thick black
glasses, suit and hilarious body language.

Also Eric Da Rae (Leo) is a casting assistant.

SS

My dog barks.         Some.

In article <87@swpyr2.sbc.com> jj9891@swpyr2.sbc.com (Joyan M. Jackson) writes:
> >
> >   Why did Annie stop resisting WE as soon as she was pulled
> >   inside the ring of trees?  Why wasn't there any change, that
> >   we could see, in Cooper when he entered the ring?

At the moment she crossed the ring of trees I heard her give a short,
cut-off scream, after which her eyes developed that glazed look that
indicated she was under some other power than her own.  I don't think
the power was Windom Earle's.  I assumed that the ring of trees, or
the Black Lodge itself was behind it, or even that, when her scream
was cut off, a part of her was left outside the circle.  I haven't
thought very deeply about the implications of this, but some
speculations are:

She has been to the Black Lodge before and escaped somehow, but
crossing the line brought her back under its power.  (She went to the
convent because she felt that the Black Lodge couldn't get to her
there.  With the portal opening, she has returned to Twin Peaks to
have the final struggle.)

OR

All during the time we've seen her, she's actually been possessed by
someone from the White Lodge, who cannot enter the Black Lodge and has
to leave her body at that point, leaving the dispossessed shell to be
led into the Black Lodge by Windom Earle.

OR

She has not had the benefit of sniffing that oil that Cooper smelled
and presumably Windom Earle got some access to.  Therefore she hasn't
been prepared, so she herself cannot enter the Black Lodge, only some
image of her which has had the eye treatment that Black Lodge
characters exhibit.

In any case, I don't want to believe that the complete Annie can be so
completely overcome by Windom Earle.  If one of her metaphors is a
queen on a chessboard, the most powerful piece, it seems that she
ought to be able to use some of that power.

Barb Miller

I am an AD&D player and a Doppleganger, according to my books is a creature
which assumes the form of another and imatates their actions but is never a
exact copy, often having many different reactions and emotions, now the TW
veiw of a doppleganger (as I see it..) would be a reversal of a person's true
form, i.e. an exact replica but everything it totaly reversed, emotions,
attitudes and such...

Never play leapfrog with a unicorn.

Much unlike the ABC add when peaks returned to Wednesdays....
 
"Oooh! Antie Emm!  I had a terible dream, we were on saturday nights." 
Cooper

"It's okay now, everyone is here, the log lady..." and so on...gave me a
chuchle or two..