Season 2, Episode 08: Drive with a Dead Girl — November 17–30, 1990

In the preview for the 12/1/90 episode, it had MIKE saying "A circle made 
of gold," juxtaposed with a picture of the turntable. Has it occurred to 
anybody that what it might mean are the records that Leland keeps 
playing?

Meaningless quote for the day:
       "People who live in gasoline houses shouldn't throw matches."

Richard Barrett

In article <12018@scorn.sco.COM>, timr@sco.COM (Bad Hurts Value) writes:
>> >>
>> >>When the letter first appeared, it seemed as though it was a "D", but 
>> >>several frames later, the letter appeared to be an "O".
> > 
> > My first reaction was also that it was a "D".  In reviewing the tape
> > in real time, it still looks like a "D" to me, but my freeze frame
> > was too grainy to confirm one way or another.

The first time I saw it I was absolutely, positively SURE it was an O.  On
having rewatched the tape, it looks like a D.  I want it to be an O.  Somebody
make life easy for me.  Please?

>> >>I figure the paper was a little bent in the middle.  When first seen,
>> >>we see the left side of the paper more edge-on than the right side,
>> >>yielding the phantom "D" effect...
> > 
> > i'll buy this, simply becuase i don't want to believe that BOB is
> > spelling out a personalized license plate.

I guess I'll go with that until a better rationalization comes along.
-- Eric Olson <fsejo@acad3.fai.alaska.edu> Gryphon Gang Fairbanks AK 99775 "Eric Olson doesn't exist." -Patricia O. Tuama, rissa@gargoyle.uchicago.edu

In article <1990Nov19.175332.4931@midway.uchicago.edu> swsh@ellis.uchicago.edu (Janet M. Swisher) writes:
> >TWIN PEAKS 
> >FREQUENTLY ANSWERED QUESTIONS

And high time. Thanks, Janet, the group needed this. Wait a minute!
Frequently *answered* questions? Uhhh.

However...

> >10. What was the poem that "Mike" recited in Cooper's dream, and later
> >at the police station?
> >-- "Through the darkness of future past
> >    the magician longs to see
> >    one chants out between two worlds
> >    'Fire walk with me.'"

Try it this way:

"Through the darkness of future past
 the magician longs to see
 one chance out between two worlds:
 Fire! Walk with me."

Many mystical traditions consider flame a gateway between this world
and others. In Europe, there was at one time a superstition to the
effect that if you stared into a flame too long, the Devil would
come through it to take your soul. Another was that demons could
enter into our world through flame.

Of course, if "chants" is the way they displayed it on the closed captions,
then I have my head up my posterior again.

-- Dave Mack

Somebody else stated there were only three letters found planted by
BOB (before Maddie).

Tom Neff (tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM) replied:
> >Remember Laura's stomach!

Sorry, the poker chip in Laura's stomach got there as a result of Leo Johnson,
not Leland/BOB.  Remember "Bite the Bullet, Baby"?

--
bvickers@ics.uci.edu

phz@cadence.com (Pete Zakel) writes:
> >Well, personally I think Hank progressing from a double-3 to a double-4 means
> >he either killed Jean Renault or considers Leo close enough to dead to count.

> >Of course, it may be the *total* number that is significant (6 and 8,
> >respectively), but I doubt it.

Actually, I wouldn't doubt it.  Hank placed the call to Catherine that
put her in the mill.  He certainly thinks she's dead and might be
counting her.  I think Catherine was #7, and Jean is #8 (assuming he's
dead).  He probably hasn't counted Leo yet, unless Jean is still alive.

Of course this is all speculation. :-P

--
bvickers@ics.uci.edu

In article <1990Nov19.190623.519@mdivax1.uucp> mdivax1!bb30c!jbrindle (Jennifer Brindle) writes:
> >In article <16466@csli.Stanford.EDU> alper@csli.Stanford.EDU (Ted Alper) writes:
> >
>> >>2) Mike either DID something in his fight against BOB or will be thought
>> >>   by the police to have done something nasty. The escape and recapture-
>> >>   near-the-falls (near maddy's body) ought to have some future 
>> >>   significance. Then again, maybe not.
> >
> >I think there is a great deal of significance to that.  I think that Leland/
> >BOB knows that MIKE is after him and since he overheard Truman yelling to
> >Cooper that they found Gerrard near the waterfall, he decided to try to
> >frame him by placing the body near the waterfall too.  Whaddyathink?

If so, BOB is a dimwit. Placing the body anywhere with the intention
that it be found guarantees that Leland gets nailed on his story
about dropping Maddy off at the bus station. And since Gerard was in
custody both at the time of Maddy's murder and when her body was
discovered, with only a few hours missing at midday, and since Truman
and Cooper have him sniffing up Ben's pantleg for BOB spoor *after*
they recaptured him, it seems unlikely to me that they'll assume he
had anything to do with Maddy.

There is something very bizarre about MIKE's BOB-detection ability: it
doesn't seem to work worth a damn. When he has his fit in the GN, there's
no evidence that Leland/BOB is anywhere near (in fact, isn't he at home
learning that Maddy plans to return to Missoula the next morning?), but
when L/B is doing his Fred Astaire number in the lobby, we hear nary a
peep from him, although he's being held in the same building. He's sound
asleep, aside from a slight stump twitch. 

-- Dave Mack

In article <4766@husc6.harvard.edu> bleier@bwnmr4.harvard.edu (Alan Bleier) writes:
> >Several people have mentioned that Leland is sure to be caught after
> >Donna and James tell the police what he said about dropping her off.
> >
> >Did he say he saw her go onto the bus, or just that he dropped her off
> >at the station?  If the latter, then the pattern of extremely incriminating
> >evidence against Leland being missed by the cops may continue.  Every
> >middle class American knows that bus stations are populated by murderers and
> >other undesirables, right? :-(  Therefore it must have been a greasy drifter
> >who killed Maddy, not the respectable Leland.  I predict that nothing much
> >will come of this, if Lynch et al. stick to their customary cynicism about
> >our society.

This isn't Gotham City, with thugs on every street corner and in every
shadow, it's Twin Peaks. The bus station is probably that bench in front 
of the Double R Diner. It's perfectly safe there. The dangerous parts
of TP are the woods, the Great Northern, and the sheriff's office. Just
ask Waldo.

-- Dave Mack

In article <oy7ss5w163w@halcyon.uucp>, hikaru%halcyon.uucp@seattleu.edu writes...

}} I called ABC here in Los Angeles, and they said that Twin Peaks WILL be
}} preempted on November 24. They will be showing a movie instead.

} So we just don't get to see that episode? Or will it be shown at a later 
} date? (presumably during reruns)

Yes, you will get to see that episode -- the following week. TWIN PEAKS
is being pre-empted on 11/24 nation-wide.

-- "I can't die yet. I haven't seen THE JOLSON STORY." --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA) UUCP: ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian ARPA: boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM

In article <1990Nov19.235343.7937@alembic.acs.com> csu@alembic.acs.com (Dave Mack) writes:
> >There is, of course, another explanation (there are five explanations for
> >everything.) BOB wants Leland to get caught. Leland then goes to prison/
> >the chair/the psycho ward, and BOB moves on to another host to continue
> >his games, leaving everyone who knew and respected Leland a bit emptier.

There is STILL no evidence that BOB can or does change hosts.  Leland is
the only host we've seen BOB associated with.  Basing an explanation of
Leland's seemingly cavalier behavior on such a questionable assumption
seems risky.

I have a simpler theory: BOB DOESN'T CARE -- he's defiant.  He has
already promised to kill again in a vision (admittedly he may not have
known his visions were wiretapped!!).  BOB seems to represent pure, wild
evil -- not cunning artifice.  (See the Hornes for that racket.)  If BOB
is getting stronger with each death, then his boldness and willingness
to run risks may be growing too.

What a wonderful mess this is.  DUNE shoulda been a TV series too.

-- "I'm not sure I've even got the brains to #:# Tom Neff be President." -- Barry Goldwater, 1964 #:# tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM

In article <26430002@hpkslx.mayfield.HP.COM>, oz@hpkslx.mayfield.HP.COM (Kent Ostby) writes...

} One thing that bothers me about Nadine is that she has not asked about
} her eye. According to when the accident occurred, it is after the time
} that she remembers. I personally would be very tramatized by waking up
} and having an eye missing. Even if I knew I had lost part of my memory,
} I would have trouble dealing with this.

It's obvious that she's working on two different levels. Consider the fact
that she's not sure whether she and Ed are living at her parents' or his.

-- "I can't die yet. I haven't seen THE JOLSON STORY." --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA) UUCP: ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian ARPA: boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM

In article <1990Nov16.182318.8437@wdl1.wdl.fac.com>, mdm@wdl50.wdl.fac.com (Mike D Marchionna) writes...

} You should rewatch Jacoby's hypnosis scene again. Jacoby cleary changes
} his story. He states that the burning smell was not in the hospital, but
} rather earlier that evening when he was in the park. Which indicates
} that Jacoby was attacked by ?/BOB while Jacques was killed by Leland/Leland.

It indicates no such thing. How can it? Jacoby was recovering from his
attack IN THE SAME HOSPITAL WARD AS JACQUES when the latter was killed
by Leland.

-- "I can't die yet. I haven't seen THE JOLSON STORY." --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA) UUCP: ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian ARPA: boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM

[Followups sent to news.groups.  I have no clue why this was
cross-posted to alt.tv.twin-peaks originally.]

Note also that many sites run news largely unattended and do not carry
out rmgroups.  Consequently, even if Gene himself sends out a rmgroup,
there will still be hundreds of sites who will still have
rec.arts.tv.twin-peaks (or whatever).

Consequently, I think talking about "removing a group" is rubbish.
You can't remove a group, no matter how hard you try.

(As an example, comp.sys.ibm.pc was officially rmgrouped several
months ago, but articles are still posted to it at a rate of
about a half-dozen a day.)

In article <1990Nov17.174425.24417@lokkur.dexter.mi.us>, scs@lokkur.dexter.mi.us (Steve Simmons) writes...

} Were Cooper and Jacoby attacked by the same man? My memory says dark coat
} and full-face dark knit cap, but that's not much to go on.

Jacoby's attacker was wearing a bluish gabardine coat and a ski-mask. The
Cooper-shooter was wearing a dark gray tweed coat (very much like the one
Leland was wearing when he killed Jacques). We didn't see any mask on the
Cooper-shooter. Cooper said later that the person wore a mask, but I don't
recall that he specified the kind of mask.

-- "I can't die yet. I haven't seen THE JOLSON STORY." --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA) UUCP: ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian ARPA: boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM

In article <1990Nov19.190623.519@mdivax1.uucp> mdivax1!bb30c!jbrindle (Jennifer Brindle) writes:
> >In article <16466@csli.Stanford.EDU> alper@csli.Stanford.EDU (Ted Alper) writes:
>> >>2) Mike either DID something in his fight against BOB or will be thought
>> >>   by the police to have done something nasty. The escape and recapture-
>> >>   near-the-falls (near maddy's body) ought to have some future 
>> >>   significance. Then again, maybe not.
> >
> >I think there is a great deal of significance to that.  I think that Leland/
> >BOB knows that MIKE is after him and since he overheard Truman yelling to
> >Cooper that they found Gerrard near the waterfall, he decided to try to
> >frame him by placing the body near the waterfall too.  Whaddyathink?

Interesting -- either that or MIKE foresaw BOB at the waterfall and
tried to get out there to meet and fight him.

In article <1990Nov20.051032.9056@alembic.acs.com> csu@alembic.acs.com (Dave Mack) writes:
> >There is something very bizarre about MIKE's BOB-detection ability: it
> >doesn't seem to work worth a damn. When he has his fit in the GN, there's
> >no evidence that Leland/BOB is anywhere near (in fact, isn't he at home
> >learning that Maddy plans to return to Missoula the next morning?), but
> >when L/B is doing his Fred Astaire number in the lobby, we hear nary a
> >peep from him, although he's being held in the same building. He's sound
> >asleep, aside from a slight stump twitch. 

Only MIKE can detect BOB, remember.  Gerard himself can't.  So it
doesn't matter what the sleeping Gerard does or doesn't do when Leland's
around.  MIKE's ability is real but limited.  It is not explicitly
misleading, though.  Gerard's fit in the GN did NOT mean "this one is
BOB" -- he did not finger Ben Horne or anyone else.  It seemed to be
caused by MIKE leaving the scene -- perhaps because he realized that in
fact BOB wasn't there??
-- I might have gone to West Point, but I was too / /\ Tom Neff proud to speak to a Congressman. -- Will Rogers /__/ \ tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM

In article <iXJus2w163w@halcyon.uucp>, hikaru%halcyon.uucp@seattleu.edu writes...

} How do we know that BOB attacked her in the hospital? That letter 
} underneath her fingernail could have been put there at the same time
} that Laura's was - in the traincar.

Except that in the pilot, the first thing that Cooper did when he looked
in on Ronette at the hospital was to check her fingernails for a letter,
and he didn't find one.

-- "I can't die yet. I haven't seen THE JOLSON STORY." --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA) UUCP: ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian ARPA: boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM

Isn't the mark that Maddie sees the mark (burn) left by the appearance
of "BOB" to Mrs. Palmer?

Wasn't "BOB" accompanied by flames around him??

Scott Larsen
larsen@prism.cs.orst.edu

Yes, I believe she said:
"WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH! AHHH! AHHHH! NO! AHHHHH! OOF!
GURGLE-GURGLE! AUUUGH! AAAAAAAAAAAIIIIEEEE-thud!"

Or at least that's what I heard. I'd have to check the
closed-captioning to be sure.

(oh yeah, :-) :-) )
---------- Ryan Mathews
-- Internet : mathews@cs.buffalo.edu Bitnet : mathews@sunybcs UUCP :{apple,cornell,decwrl,harvard,rutgers,talcott,ucbvax,uunet}! cs.buffalo.edu!mathews

Gary, I'm sorry about my suggestion on how other readers can
block off what they don't want to hear.  My reason for such action
is that I get pissed after hearing a constant arsenal of dislike
towards Twin Peaks, so when I found such comments infecting the newsgroup,
I had to speak my mind, (just like you do).

  This is a personal apology to all others offended, as well.

----READ ON IF YOU WANT TO HEAR PROBLEMS ABOUT GARY'S ASSULT ON DAVE-----------

HOWEVER, I repeat, HOWEVER, I don't think Gary's critisms were well
based against me and I found them to be quite insulting to me.  Comments
about Gary thinking I said that the show was "mine" are false.  If you read
closely, I said "our."  Therefore, if you see watch the show, you are
part of the group I was refering to.  Gary is part of that group.  But it seems
that Gary immediately took the defensive, mistaking "our" for "my."
This brings me to the point about Gary saying that he watches TP, but
doesn't find the show as great as others.  So why watch it?  I had a hunch that
Gary watched the show, and secretly liked it, but I'm only human and capable
of errors.  Anyways, I wanted to point out that people watching T.V.shows want
to be entertained. I only watch an hour and one-half hours of T.V. a
week, because most T.V. is bad.  If T.V.does not entertain me, I find other
sources of entertainment, usually movies, books, newspapers, and music varying
from classical to foriegn rock groups.  But to watch a non-entertaining show,
then insult it, and watch more of the same show sounds like a love affair that is over but the couple don't want to break up. Gary, do you like TP or dislike
TP?  To what degree of like/dislike do you have towards TP?  If you like
it at all, then continue to view it for whatever amount of pleasure you get.
If you don't like it, stop.
As for insults, I try not to listen.  I listen only to criticism, well-founded and provacative.  So when Gary or any other person can convince me
logically that TP is terrible,  I'll reduce my T.V. viewing time to half-hour.
But until then, I'll watch.
My final comments: posts that intend to get someone pissed, or "flames,"
create a mass hatred towards the one who posted the flame.  This hatred
is the "suffering" I refered to in my post.  This may seem like small
potatoes to Gary and others, but if you knew that a nation-wide mob was out
to get you, wouldn't you be a bit paranoid?  I don't personally challenge
Gary; I'm just a messenger from a winning armada that wants vengeance.
(Gary, thanks to you I have grown enough maturity to admit my
shortcomings about posting "flames."  How about you?)

*******************************************************************************
THE BOY NEXT DOOR (this door is closer that you think...) Dave
My Address   : dcoteles@bonnie.ics.uci.edu
If Fails, try: eaiu085@orion.oac.uci.edu
*******************************************************************************
P.S. - Gary, glad you watch Twin Peaks.  For a show that supposedly "has no
       plot", it's kept a lot of people's attention, red herrings and all.

In article <16032@bfmny0.BFM.COM>, tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM (Tom Neff) writes...

} * If Deschanel thought he was putting in a Lynch-like touch by making
} us watch Louise Dombroskie dance with that flashlight for 2 minutes
} straight, he was wrong.  Or if he's such a dyed-in-the-wool MTV alumnus
} that he just doesn't feel right directing a whole show without inserting
} at least one backlight fuzzy slo-mo girl dancing sequence, then he
} should get a life.

Deschanel isn't a "dyed-in-the-wool MTV alumnus". He's a cinematographer
of high reputation (he's gotten Academy Award nominations for Best
Cinematography for THE RIGHT STUFF and THE NATURAL) and he directed one
of my favorite non-Lynch episodes -- Episode #6, where Coop and the Boys
trek up to the Log Lady's cabin and then on to Jacques' cabin.

-- "I can't die yet. I haven't seen THE JOLSON STORY." --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA) UUCP: ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian ARPA: boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM

In article <12019@scorn.sco.COM>, evanh@sco.COM (Evan A.C. Hunt) writes...

} I rewatched the 11/10 episode this morning, and during the murder scene,
} when Leland/BOB has chased Maddy into the living room, she stands with
} her back to the windows for a moment just before he grabs her. The sound
} is heavily distorted and played at slow speed, and the sounds don't
} match her lip-movements, so it's hard to tell for sure if she's really
} articulating anything while she screams, but it sounded a lot like she
} was saying "don't murder me BOB".

} Did anyone else hear that? Did anyone else hear words at all?  (It was
} so distorted I could easily have misheard it.)

She said, "Somebody please help me!"

-- "I can't die yet. I haven't seen THE JOLSON STORY." --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA) UUCP: ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian ARPA: boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM

In article <9011192101.AA09759@gaffa.MIT.EDU> jsd@GAFFA.MIT.EDU (Welcome to the TERRORDOME) writes:

>> > >I MUST have the Twin Peaks soundtrack!  Does anyone know if you can get it on
>> > >CD?  What is on it?
> > 
> > Yes - readily available.  It's on the Warner Bros label.

Can anyone post the record number & title?

Tim
-- tjfs@tadtec.uucp ...!uunet!mcvax!ukc!tadtec!tjfs Tadpole Technology plc, Science Park, Milton Road, CAMBRIDGE, CB4 4WQ Phone: +44-223-423030 Fax: +44-223-420772 Telex: 817316 TADTEC G

In article <1990Nov19.055543.13561@isis.cs.du.edu>, bgingric@isis.cs.du.edu (Barry L. Gingrich) writes...

} There was no direct credit given for Lucy's sister. I don't think it was
} Sheryl Lee, tho. There were two women listed as guest stars that I didn't
} recognize, Kathleen Wilhoite and Jane Greer. I'm guessing that one played
} Norma's mom and the other was Lucy's sister.

Jane Greer played Vivian (Norma's mom), according to TV GUIDE. Process of
elimination.

Speaking of credits, a couple of misdirections. Piper Laurie is again listed
"as Tojamura and Catherine Martell", though she didn't appear as Tojamura
this episode.  And when I saw "Sheryl Lee" I almost jumped for joy: "Maddy
is *alive*!" not thinking at the moment that she once again plays a corpse.

} BTW, I checked last week's tape, and I couldn't see Leland anywhere
} around when Mike freaked out.

What makes you think that MIKE freaked out because BOB was near?

-- "I can't die yet. I haven't seen THE JOLSON STORY." --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA) UUCP: ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian ARPA: boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM

The concurrence between Twin Peaks and Thomas Pynchon are pretty high (even
down to the initials!).

I had already suggested in e-mail to a reader of the group some of the
similarities between Twin Peaks and TP recent VineLand. Both rather weird
both involving indian superstions and both set in s very similar environment
(norther CA and central/easter WA, surrounded by trees).

I wouldn't go as far as suggesteing DL = TP, but he certainly reads the same
sort of books!

Kevin Purcell          | kpurcell@liverpool.ac.uk  -or-  kgp@cxa.dl.ac.uk
Surface Science,       |
Liverpool University   | There is now a *Twin Peaks* email discussion list for
Liverpool L69 3BX      | UK Peak Freaks. Mail me for details ....

In article <meVws5w163w@halcyon.uucp> hikaru%halcyon.uucp@seattleu.edu writes:
#All doubt as to which state this was in should have been cleared up by 
#now. In Leland's hearing, Truman says that the state is Washington. WHAT 
#MORE is needed?

Okay, thanks Richard, that's a good lead.  Now maybe if I throw some
Tibetan darts at a map on the wall I'll uncover another clue.  :-)

Douglas Krause                     One yuppie can ruin your whole day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
University of California, Irvine   Internet: dkrause@orion.oac.uci.edu
Welcome to Irvine, Yuppieland USA  BITNET: DJKrause@ucivmsa

In article <MIKEP.90Nov15173733@dirty.csc.ti.com> you write:
> >1) Twin Peaks represents a trend.  No matter how much quality
> >   there may be, trends come and go (by definition).  The

I'm not even a Twin Peaks fan but I find this post a little amusing.
I just read the PRISONER newsgroup and would read the discussion going
on about the original Star Trek but there's just too much traffic to wade
through. :-)

bob church
bchurch.oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu

In article <114030029@hpcuhd.HP.COM> grega@hpcuhd.HP.COM (Number 6) writes:
> >Ok, I'm fed up.  The show has begun its inevitable deterioration.  Why do
> >I say this?  Think about these for a moment:
> >
> >1.  Sarah Palmer had an amazing recovery, didn't she?  And a very convenient
> >    loss of memory, it seems.

Do you think the writers simply forgot about Sarah?  Sarah doesn't get 
enough credit for providing us with important clues.  We keep dismissing 
her (or the writers) as loony.

> >2.  Hank is one hell of slippery fellow.  Last time we saw him, Jean had
> >    a gun to his head.

As I said before, Hank is probably working for Jean now.

> >3.  I wonder if Daryl will ever notice that his wallet's missing?

He has probably discovered that his wallet is missing.  He has probably
cancelled his credit cards, applied for a new drivers license and
got another federal ID card.  Why should they have to show us all this?

> >4.  Leland has been BOB for "nearly forty years."  In that time, to our
> >    knowledge, he has killed (at most) three people.  First was Teresa
> >    Banks, and then ALMOST ONE YEAR TO THE DAY came Laura Palmer.  The
> >    third was Maddy, of course.  So in forty years, BOB has killed three
> >    times, with the third comming only a few days after the second?
> >    Why?  And here's a bonus question to think about: where was Teresa's
> >    body found?

We don't know how many people BOB has killed.  We also don't know how
long he has been killing.

> >6.  So it takes "a few hours" to determine a man's blood type in Twin Peaks.
> >    Albert was right -- it does give new meaning to the word "primitive."

Maybe the hospital lab had a heavy workload that day.

> >7.  Lucy sure loves to drive.  Why she's been known to drive hundreds of
> >    miles in a 48 hour period!

The two-hour drive to Seattle (four-hour round trip) does not seem 
excessive.  I driven that far in one day just to go skiing.

-- Scott Amspoker | Basis International, Albuquerque, NM | "I'm going out for a sandwich" (505) 345-5232 | - Ben unmvax.cs.unm.edu!bbx!bbxsda!scott |

mouse@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:

> >The scene on the road by the golf course:  After having clubbed
> >a policeman, Leland is singing and larking back and forth from lane
> >to lane.  

Did I miss something?  When did Leland club a policeman?  MIKE clubbed the
policeman guarding him at the GN after he sent the nurse out for some
water? aspirin?  I don't remember Leland clubbing anyone. Did he?


Jennifer

mdtaylor@Apple.COM (Mark Taylor):

> >Twin Peaks is "five miles south of the Canadian border, 12 miles west of the
> >state line" - Cooper in the premiere episode                     ====

East! East! East!  Ughhhhhh!

==============================================================================
|  Greg Anderson  |   hpcuhd!grega      |      grega@hpcuhd.HP.COM           |
==============================================================================
| "It isn't necessary to be rich and famous to be happy.  It's only          |
|  necessary to be rich." -- Alan Alda                                       |
==============================================================================

lorraine@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Lorraine Leddy) writes:

> >My mistake if you wish to join the UK Twin Peaks mailing list please
> >mail...

>> >>twin-peaks-request@uk.ac.DARESBURY<

I tried to mail to this address
(well, actually to <twin-peaks-request@DARESBURY.ac.uk>),
but my message bounced back.

MAILER-DAEMON> Your mail could not be delivered to P.GRIFFITHS because
MAILER-DAEMON> no such mail-box exists.
MAILER-DAEMON> The text of your message is reproduced here.

Did anyone from outside the UK successfully get subscribed ?

For those who don't understand, one can receive the BBC in Holland
by cable tv.

-- Pim Zandbergen domain : pim@cti-software.nl CTI Software BV uucp : uunet!mcsun!hp4nl!ctisbv!pim Laan Copes van Cattenburch 70 phone : +31 70 3542302 2585 GD The Hague, The Netherlands fax : +31 70 3512837

hikaru%halcyon.uucp@seattleu.edu:

> >How do we know that BOB attacked her in the hospital? That letter 
> >underneath her fingernail could have been put there at the same time that 
> >Laura's was - in the traincar. 

No, Cooper checked her fingernails in the very first episode.

==============================================================================
|  Greg Anderson  |   hpcuhd!grega      |      grega@hpcuhd.HP.COM           |
==============================================================================
| "It isn't necessary to be rich and famous to be happy.  It's only          |
|  necessary to be rich." -- Alan Alda                                       |
==============================================================================

Karl Kluge (kck@g.cs.cmu.edu):

> >OK, all you Leland-did-its, after
> >40 years of hanging around in Leland, why this sudden disregard for
> >his host's continued viability? What is Bob's motive for his sudden,
> >devil-may-care attitude to Leland?

Motive?  Poor writing, perhaps?

==============================================================================
|  Greg Anderson  |   hpcuhd!grega      |      grega@hpcuhd.HP.COM           |
==============================================================================
| "It isn't necessary to be rich and famous to be happy.  It's only          |
|  necessary to be rich." -- Alan Alda                                       |
==============================================================================

I heard a blurb on the radio last night, but was not listening very carefully.
However, what I think I heard was that the actor who portrays Albert on Twin 
Peaks is, in fact, the child actor who played Will Robinson on Lost in Space!

After I thought about it for a few minutes, digging deep into my own childhood
memory of the show, I believe there _is_ a distinct resemblance.  Also, it
seems to me that his age is about right.

Can anyone out there who reads celebrity mags, has an excellent memory, or
lives in an area where Lost in Space reruns are showing, confirm this?


Jim Lange
Oracle Corporation

In article <376@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us> rissa@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us (Patricia O Tuama) writes:

> >Let's assume that the newsgroup has been created.  ABC cancels the
> >series tomorrow.  According to your proposal, rec.arts.tv.twin-peaks
> >would continue until 1/20/91 whereupon a rmgroup mesg would be sent 
> >out.  But three weeks later the Fox network announces that it has 
> >reached an agreement with Lynch and Frost to air the show beginning 
> >5/1/91.  Are you going to come back here and go through this whole 
> >voting biz again?

Let's hope for some "common sense" here on USENET.

Since I've agreed to issue the "rmgroup", I would wait until 2 months
after the show has been canceled.  To me, this means 2 months after the
last time the show is aired. That would probably be some time in the
summer or fall and of course I would check and see just how much traffic
is appearing in the group.  A "fair warning" would be issued so as not
to inconvience or surprise users of the group.  I think this is
reasonable to all concerned.

If the show were to "re-appear" before I issued the "rmgroup", I wouldn't
insist that an "rmgroup" had to be issued.  I would use common sense and
let the group continue as is. 

Of course, it can always be argued that the show may reappear at 
any time "t" after the "rmgroup" no matter how long I wait to issue it.
No matter what is agreed upon, I'm sure I can come up with a scenario to
prove it imperfect.

The important thing is to remember that USENET is here to serve us.

If the "rules" (read "pomp and circumstance") of USENET require that a
new vote be held with discussion and voting in the scenario you
envision, then so be it.

Common sense would dictate (at least to me) that it would be
unnecessary to redebate/revote/reflame in your scenario, for I would 
honor a newgroup at this site for the group without the new vote.
Your site's admin's mileage may vary.

All of this has come up because someone was worried about what will
happen if the television show were to be canceled.  I agreed to remove
the group when the time was right as a compromise (and a net-public-service).

Now we hear that USENET can not deal with a "temporary" subject.  It
must be permanent to be a part of USENET.  I really don't see why this
must be true -- it simply hasn't been addressed before.  It's a new idea,
that's all.  And let's be realistic, just how long does anyone think
USENET will exist?  Forever?  Hardly.  USENET will exist until something
makes it obsolete.  The more adaptable USENET is, the longer USENET will
last.

The "rmgroup" is a good compromise for all concerned.  Perhaps some sort
of 'cleanup' rule of thumb could be applied to other groups, without
making a complex algorithm out of it.  The ALTnet works so well this way.

Terry
-- INTERNET: tjw@unix.cis.pitt.edu BITNET: TJW@PITTVMS CC-NET: 33802::tjw UUCP: {decwrl!decvax!idis, allegra, bellcore}!pitt!unix.cis.pitt.edu!tjw And if dreams could come true, I'd still be there with you, On the banks of cold waters at the close of the day. - Craig Johnson

In article <1990Nov19.235343.7937@alembic.acs.com> csu@alembic.acs.com (Dave Mack) writes:
> >
> >What do you bet that the "real" Leland doesn't know he killed Maddy?

But, does the real Leland truly believe he took Maddy to the bus station
20 minutes before talking to James and Donna (many hours after she was
dead)?

I'm still unclear about how the Palmer house got back to normal so
quickly after Maddy's murder.  Didn't the "Missoula, Montana" framed
painting (picture) get smashed?  Why doesn't Sarah Palmer remember anything?

In article <1990Nov20.021658.8562@alembic.acs.com> csu@alembic.acs.com (Dave Mack) writes:
> >Of course, if "chants" is the way they displayed it on the closed captions,
> >then I have my head up my posterior again.

Posterior-sucking time, Dave!  According to a.tv.t-p'ers who view CC, "chants"
is indeed le mot propre.  (Oh no, not more French!  What did I just say?
"Chants" is the blue needle???!!!)

> >Dave Mack


--
Rob Jellinghaus                 | "Next time you see a lie being spread or
Autodesk, Inc.                  |  a bad decision being made out of sheer
robertj@Autodesk.COM            |  ignorance, pause, and think of hypertext."
{decwrl,uunet}!autodesk!robertj |    -- K. Eric Drexler, _Engines of Creation_

Absolutely agree with you.

Leland is so pure evil -- "Let me show you my new clubs..."
Ben is turning out to be a much more likeable guy...

The show just keeps getting better and better!

In article <MIKEP.90Nov15173733@dirty.csc.ti.com> mikep@dirty.csc.ti.com (Michael A. Petonic) writes:
> >1) Twin Peaks represents a trend.  No matter how much quality
> >   there may be, trends come and go (by definition).  The
> >   "normal" (non-alt) newsgroups should be fairly stable, not
> >   reflecting every slight surge or depression in interest.

A good sentiment but one that seems to have precedents against it.  Witness,
rec.arts.drwho, rec.arts.startrek, and the old wobegon group.  Many trends are
very long lived indeed.

This is not to say that I am either for or against the creation of a new
newsgroup, it is only to point out that this argument does not have the weight
it might once have.

John Munsch

In <iXJus2w163w@halcyon.uucp> hikaru%halcyon.uucp@seattleu.edu writes:


> >How do we know that BOB attacked her in the hospital? That letter 
> >underneath her fingernail could have been put there at the same time that 
> >Laura's was - in the traincar. 

I might be wrong, but didn't Cooper check under Ronnette's fingernail
way back when she came stumbling over the border and not find
anything?  I'll have to go back and check...

ann

Hey yo...
  The "White Horse" must have been the spirit of "Troy", the horse Laura
Palmer owned as a child.  (Read "The Diary of Laura Palmer")  She felt guilty
about keeping it in captivity, so she released it...  a few weeks later, it
was found, half-dead, starving to death, exhausted.  It was shot, and she
felt horribly guilty.


By the way, The above was interperated by Brian.  from a spirit contained in
our lab named JUDD.

Well, my opinion is that this latest show was definitely one
of the better ones.

Why is it that if the show doesn't have non-stop weirdness, a legion
of followers immediately cries out in anger that only DL should direct
and that any non-DL'ed show is worthless.  This show was superb!

The reminescences of the dancing baby-sitter really brought me
a deeper feeling of sympathy for Ben and Jerry.  I am beginning to
really like these guys.  The scene was really pretty funny.  

So was the fainting Andy scene...saw it coming a mile away but I couldn'
t help bursting out in laughter.

The Audrey-Cooper scenes are still magic.  And every BOB scene makes
my hair stand on end.  "Let me show you my new clubs"  -- I've never
seen a better scene in TP.

I've been waiting for someone to post the (perhaps not so) obvious, but
as there is an inability to grasp it, here goes...

A.Sarah was strungout while Leland killed Maddy.  It's her defense against
the abuse that's been going on around her.  She was oblivious to the
murder and powerless to stop it.  There are two metaphysical
explanations of the horse: 1) a manifestation of her drug-of-choice
(heroin); 2) (the REALLY metaphysical one) DEATH arriving -- not for
Sarah, but for Maddy.

B.Typing blood takes only a few minutes UNLESS YOU ARE GATHERING EVIDENCE.
The chain of evidence slows things down, as does the fact that you won't
have the local hospital do the typing -- you'll send it to the state or
federal criminal investigations laboratory, so the chain of evidence
will be ensured by procedure.  (Hospitals aren't nearly as careful
about access to samples as a crime lab.  Hospitals are for the
convenience of the doctor, not the district attorney.)

C.So Lucy drove hundreds of miles in two days.  Unless you're in an
out-of-shape Pinto, you'll cover 100 miles in 4 hours on back roads.
What's the big deal.

I'm sorry if I've upset anyone; this is a bit heated, but I had to put in my
nickel's worth (inflation).

-- D. Patrick Beckfield beckfdp@eros.network.com Network Systems Corporation Minneapolis, MN

In article <jjrq355n4@tmsoft.uucp>, mshiels@tmsoft.uucp (Michael A. Shiels)
says:
> >
> >This is not her first time posing for PLAYBOY.  She has posed before.


if you have ever seen the film "two moon junction" you would not be at all
suprised that she has posed even more than once.  the film is *very* steamy
and erotic with sherilyn playing the lead role.  very interesting movie.
definitely worth the price of a rental -- not a sleazy flick if you know.


---
WENDY C. WHITE              "TODAY, I HAD A PREMONITION THAT I WOULD
THE AMERICAN UNIVERSITY      HAVE A DEJA VU SOON."  --NO ONE YOU know
PHYSICS OR DIE!!!

"BODY ODOR IS THE WINDOW TO THE SOUL."  --DAVID BYRNE

In article <114030029@hpcuhd.HP.COM> grega@hpcuhd.HP.COM (Number 6) writes:
> >4.  Leland has been BOB for "nearly forty years."  In that time, to our
> >    knowledge, he has killed (at most) three people.  First was Teresa

My impression is that we can't be sure that Leland has been BOB all
along.  If it was just a split personality, then he wouldn't look like
BOB.  But the police sketch that Cooper had was of BOB.  So BOB is
probably an inhabiting spirit (and they seem to like this mystical stuff)
who can take over a person and provide the look.  Is it not possible
that BOB was Ben Horne (as the clues were suggesting and led to his
arrest) and then when he was in jail, took over Leland?

In article <1384@bbxsda.UUCP> scott@bbxsda.UUCP (Scott Amspoker) writes:
> >In article <114030029@hpcuhd.HP.COM> grega@hpcuhd.HP.COM (Number 6) writes:
>> >>7.  Lucy sure loves to drive.  Why she's been known to drive hundreds of
>> >>    miles in a 48 hour period!
> >
> >The two-hour drive to Seattle (four-hour round trip) does not seem 
> >excessive.  I driven that far in one day just to go skiing.
> >

Actually, if Twin Peaks is north of Spokane (as all of the evidence seems
to show), then Seattle would be more like 5-7 hours ONE way.

-dd-

In article <1990Nov19.192057.20700@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>, golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes...
> >In article <6100@mace.cc.purdue.edu> salmons@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Joe Salmons) writes:
>> >>I haven't been reading a.t.t-p very long, so sorry if this has come up before
>> >>(hell, what hasn't come up here).  Somebody told me that Lynch has at least
>> >>acted in interviews like a serious Reagan-styled rightwinger, a real old
>> >>fashioned macho-type guy.  I laughed pretty hard about it then, but that was
>> >>before the questions about sexism in TP.  What's the deal?  

Lynch believe it or not is a Conservative type of guy.  I have read interviews 
where he has said that he admires Reagan.  I don't know anything about his 
personal views on sexism, women's rights, etc.  I wonder where he stands on the
rights of the accused.  The reason I wonder is that Cooper & co.'s methods of
obtaining information is definitely on the shady side.  In fact when it was 
said that they had a strong case against Ben Horne I nearly choked.

> >The same can be said of the violence...rather than the shoot-em-up
> >cartoon violence of most TV shows and movies which trivializes
> >the effects of violence...the violence in Twin Peaks is fleshed out.
> >We are shown the violence, and more importantly, the effects of the
> >violence...the body count in Total Recall was pretty high, but I
> >didn't feel much of anything...the same cannot be said of the
> >body count in Twin Peaks.

Well yes and no.  I was affected by the Leland/BOB scene with Maddy.  But 
killing has been portrayed as casual and incidental.  Hawk threw a knife in a 
guard's back and no one said anything at all.  Why not?  Granted this man was 
working on the side of the bad guys but so was Blackie and that shook me up.

As for the sexism issue well I don't know.  I don't see the universally negative
images of women that exist in other tv shows.  But the violence towards women 
bothers me.  Granted in TP, this is not solely oriented towards women 
(Bobby/Leo, Hank/Josie's "cousin", Big Ed/Nadine come to mind).  But it would be
nice to see someone besides Nadine have the physical strength as well as the 
mental strength to stand up to their victimizers.  Wouldn't it be a twist to see
a woman fight her own battle instead of having the white knight do it for her?
The characterizations of the female characters are definitely three dimensional
in TP, however, so I don't have any complaints there.


--Michelle

In article <meVws5w163w@halcyon.uucp> hikaru%halcyon.uucp@seattleu.edu writes:
> >mdtaylor@Apple.COM (Mark Taylor) writes:
> >
> >"Timber State" - so? Does that prove anything?
> >

Yes.  It proves that Lynch/Frost have a fine sense of irony.  Washington 
state is in the process of destroying all its old-growth forests.


--Barbara



--
Barbara HlavinOh I am a cat that likes to 
twain@blake.acs.washington.eduGallop about doing good.
U Washington JC-21/Seattle 98105  -Stevie Smith

In article <1990Nov18.185248.2793@lokkur.dexter.mi.us>, scs@lokkur.dexter.mi.us (Steve Simmons) writes...
> > 
> >It really looks like Leland/BOB want's to get caught.  He's spread out
> >so much stuff it's amazing.

I think you're correct.  

> >First, he tells Donna and James that he took Maddy to the bus
> >station.  Given the body is found about 24 hours after the murder, it
> >should be possible to prove that Maddy was dead by the time he'd made
> >that statement.

Well he has to tell them something.  But my question is didn't Maddy have a 
car of her own?  As far as the time of death goes--well that could be 
problematic.  Determining the time of death from the corpse is a pretty general 
thing.  If Maddy was killed in the early morning hours, Leland could be safe in
telling them that.

> >Second, he goes out of his way to draw attention to himself on the
> >road.  When spotting Cooper and Truman, he almost literally asks Cooper
> >to take a look in the golf bag.  When Cooper is distracted, he appears
> >to be disappointed!

I think Leland/BOB is getting a kick from the danger of having Cooper that close
to the corpse.  When Cooper walked away he didn't get the fulfillment he 
desired.

> >Fourth, he isn't exactly subtle about his reaction to Ben Horne being
> >booked.  After about 30 seconds of concealment, he's back to the Home
> >of Happy Feet.

> >Leland/BOB *wants* to be caught.  But why?

I don't know if any of this holds in the real world or not but in 
mystery/detective novels the guilty party usually goes out of his/her way to 
show their cleverness in dealing with tricky parts of concealing their crimes.
Have you ever read "The Black Cat"?  In the story we have a narrator who has two
personalities.  The first one is a really nice guy who loves animals.  The 
second which seems to be brought on by alcoholic rage in going to kill the cat 
inadvertantly buries an ax in his wife's brain.  He then goes through a series
of elaborate preparations to hide the body.  When the police come around 
wondering what has happened to Mrs. narrator, he goes out of his way to the wall
his wife is now residing in.  He lingers there, draws their attention to it, and
ends up exposing himself.  

Leland/BOB has(ve) been a very clever boy(s) so far.  No one (except we on the 
net ;-)) has suspected him(them).  Leland/BOB gets a thrill out of dancing close
to the precipice.  It's the same kind of thrill you get with a private joke 
about someone who's in the room with you.  Instead of lying low, Leland/BOB is
going out of his(their) way.  Maybe it will all lead up to the scene where 
Leland/BOB triumphantly reveals how he(they) did it all.

--Michelle

  Hieronymous Bosch <--> David Lynch

  or (in/sub)verting Bunuel

                                    Seek God, serve others,
                                    Rick

Seems like lots of people noticed that Cooper and Leland/Bob
were both whistling the same thing in different keys in the 11/17
episode. This is definitely NOT a coincidence, and it could mean a
number of different things. It is very possible that Bob is trying to
take over Cooper now, or perhaps Leland, who is not really in control
of his own body anymore is trying to fight Bob. He's trying to contact
Cooper for help. Just a thought. Comments?

Diego Hadis

In article <30074@boulder.Colorado.EDU>, darr@boulder.Colorado.EDU (David Darr) writes:
> > In article <1384@bbxsda.UUCP> scott@bbxsda.UUCP (Scott Amspoker) writes:
>> >>In article <114030029@hpcuhd.HP.COM> grega@hpcuhd.HP.COM (Number 6) writes:
>>> >>>7.  Lucy sure loves to drive.  Why she's been known to drive hundreds of
>>> >>>    miles in a 48 hour period!
>> >>
>> >>The two-hour drive to Seattle (four-hour round trip) does not seem 
>> >>excessive.  I driven that far in one day just to go skiing.
> > 
> > Actually, if Twin Peaks is north of Spokane (as all of the evidence seems
> > to show), then Seattle would be more like 5-7 hours ONE way.

Anchorage, Alaska, is a five-to-seven-hour drive from Fairbanks (but don't tell
the state troopers that--it's around 400 miles) and I know many people who go
there and back in one day for whatever reasons.

It just takes the appropriate small town mentality to motivate oneself.
-- Eric Olson <fsejo@acad3.fai.alaska.edu> Gryphon Gang Fairbanks AK 99775

In article <746@autodesk.COM>, robertj@Autodesk.COM (Young Rob Jellinghaus) writes:
> > In article <1990Nov20.021658.8562@alembic.acs.com> csu@alembic.acs.com (Dave Mack) writes:
> > 
> > Posterior-sucking time, Dave!  According to a.tv.t-p'ers who view CC, "chants"
> > is indeed le mot propre.  (Oh no, not more French!  What did I just say?
> > "Chants" is the blue needle???!!!)
> > 
Actually, to me, it sounded like "limon pour rob'rt" slurred a little which
would mean, a LEMON FOR BOB!  This is clearly a clue, and especially since the
e was slurred out of Robert [we haven't seen the E yet under the fingernails]
we can tell it's meaningful.

Did anyone see it closed captioned?
-- Eric Olson <fsejo@acad3.fai.alaska.edu> Gryphon Gang Fairbanks AK 99775 The owls are not what they seem and Bob likes lemon in his tea.

According to the 11/20 USA Today, there will be a few new twin peaks 
related items coming out soon.  One will be a book that is an 
Autobiography of Agent Cooper.  Taken from every tape recording he's 
made since age 7.

Another will be a twin peaks access guide.  With building by building 
info.

Coming in January will be the Twin Peaks Gazette monthly, with clues
and contests.  $39.95 a year, they give the address as P.O. Box 5673
Berkeley Calif.  94705.

Just thought people would like to know...
-- * Insert your favorite funny/witty saying here, but make it small. * * mke@cs.pdx.edu or psueea.ee.pdx.edu!qiclab!redsun!mke Stand. disc. applies. * * (REM,BUGGLES,ASIA,YES,PYLON,THE SUNDAYS,AMIGA3000) * * Please Reply if the content of this message implies that one is expected. *

In article <1990Nov19.214359.1@acad3.fai.alaska.edu> fsejo@acad3.fai.alaska.edu (Eric Olson) writes:
> >In article <s1Vws6w163w@halcyon.uucp>, hikaru%halcyon.uucp@seattleu.edu writes:
>> >> In the preview for the 12/1/90 episode, it had MIKE saying "A circle made 
>> >> of gold," juxtaposed with a picture of the turntable. Has it occurred to 
>> >> anybody that what it might mean are the records that Leland keeps 
>> >> playing?
>> >> 
> >It looked to me like that was supposed to be associated with Coop's ring.
> >-- 
> >Eric Olson <fsejo@acad3.fai.alaska.edu> Gryphon Gang Fairbanks AK 99775


Now, can someone confirm or deny this. But during this preview it seemed
to me that the voice wasn't MIKE's. It seemed different, does anyone
else think so, or can anyone prove me wrong. The voice also wasn't
the Giants. So if it is neither MIKE's nor the Giant's voice, whose
was it?

In article <6577@bgsu-stu.UUCP> ka-rt451@bgsu-stu.UUCP (Scott Malchus) writes:
> >
> >Okay, folks, I was enjoying a cold one and watching the movie
> >DREAMSCAPE(w/Dennis Quaid and Kate Capeshaw) when who happened
> >to pop on screen.....
> >       Actually, two of the actors enjoying the success of  
> >Twin Peaks were in this above average sci-fi/surrealistic
> >thriller. Does anyone know who they are. Here's a hint:
> >On TP, the characters portrayed by these two actors conspired
> >to kill Leo.

Months ago, it was established that one is Jerry. 

"Have you ever seen 'Enter the Dragon'?  I've seen it 6 times."

I don't remember who the other one is.  I haven't seen "Dreamscape"
in six or so years and it is not worth repeating.  Hank or Ben?



Kirk out.



Kirk out.

Okay, coffee break's over.  Everyone back on their heads.

In article <62543@unix.cis.pitt.edu>, tjw@unix.cis.pitt.edu (TJ Wood WA3VQJ) writes:
> > Let's hope for some "common sense" here on USENET.
> > 
> > Since I've agreed to issue the "rmgroup" [...]

Silly thought, but what if something happens to your account? Or to you?
Or heaven forbid, you lose interest?

(Please don't flame me, I'm just conjecturing about all possible futures.)

Will you then pass the post on to someone else? Will a post of "executioner"
have to be created?
---------- Ryan Mathews
-- Internet : mathews@cs.buffalo.edu Bitnet : mathews@sunybcs UUCP :{apple,cornell,decwrl,harvard,rutgers,talcott,ucbvax,uunet}! cs.buffalo.edu!mathews

In article <17260@shlump.nac.dec.com>, boyajian@ruby (Cisco's Buddy) writes:
> >Now, it's valid to use just "Lynch" as simple shorthand, but I get the
> >feeling that many people think that Lynch himself is responsible for
> >everything -- good or bad -- that appears on the show.

Very true.  Especially after witnessing the recent episode directed by
Caleb whatzisname.  The directing was obviously lacking, although I
thought the script was good.  The entire episode had zero tension, which
Lynch seems to be able to create in his sleep.

--woodstock
-- "What I like is when you're looking and thinking and looking and thinking...and suddenly you wake up." - Hobbes nhess@us.oracle.com or ...!uunet!oracle!nhess or (415) 506-2650

     Well, we just got this newsgroup added, so I'm going to mention a few
thoughts I've been having about the show.
 
     First : It is depressing how predictable they're becoming.  While I
certainly acknowledge the creativity of the series, there are a few places
in which Lynch et al. have really let us down.  Example : The European version
of TP, which was a two-hour movie in which BOB is revealed as the killer.
This has been public knowledge since midway through the first season, yet
at the time Lynch assured us all that the outcome of that version has no
relation whatsoever to the American series.  Yeah, right.  Also the book of
the 'Secret Diary of Laura Palmer.'  The TP people said the diary (now on sale
at your local bookstore) had no relation to the events of the series, that
it was apocryphal.  Yet it has appeared in there, word for word.  What next?
 
     Whether or not Maddie was in the golf bag : Regardless of the weight
issue, I'm almost sure she was.  It wasn't just the hand we saw; there were
curls of her hair visible too, I'm almost sure.
 
     MY THEORY.  BOB does move back and forth between/among people, and he
most definitely was not in Leland when Laura was killed.  My opinion is that
BOB entered Leland right after Jacques' murder (was it just coincidence that
Leland's hair turned white immediately afterward? I think not.)  Leland killed
Jacques without BOB's help -- otherwise the killing would have been weirder
and more violent -- but that murder was, perhaps, a precondition to BOB's
occupation of Leland.  Sort of like Leland had to do something evil to become
susceptible (or to declare himself open) to BOB's influence.  [Sidetrack : I'm
in no way an sf junkie, but this idea reminds me of that in Douglas Adams'
first *Dirk Gently* book.]  So the question is who BOB was in when Laura died.
Ben Horne is a possibility, and I seem to recall the OAM saying something
like "BOB has been here" when examining Ben after Ben had been detained.  And
he never did give a straight answer when Audrey asked him about it.  But that
would be a bit too pat.
 
     Whatever became of Ronette?  She isn't dead, is she?
 
     The 'BOB is a were-owl' idea seemed credible to me from the first time
we heard about the owls.  That seemed to be the simplest explanation.  But
the simplest explanation has only rarely turned out to be the correct one...
 
     The 'flashlight dancing' scene (and it took me a few minutes to remember
it) was worthwhile, if for nothing else, for the sight of Ben & Jerry as
pre-pubescents.  =)
 
     One of the people I watch the show with was sure that what the magician-
boy said was "J'ai un ami sous le terre" -- 'I have a friend under the earth.'
Much more ominous than that bit about the 'solitary soul.'
 
     OK, that's enough for now.  =)
 
 
 
                                                    -- Mark

9 PM Central and Mountain.  Just like everything else, we get it
an hour earlier.

In <62543@unix.cis.pitt.edu> tjw@unix.cis.pitt.edu (TJ Wood WA3VQJ) writes:

   Now we hear that USENET can not deal with a "temporary" subject.  It
   must be permanent to be a part of USENET.  I really don't see why this
   must be true -- it simply hasn't been addressed before.  It's a new idea,
   that's all.

It is hardly a new idea.  This sort of thing was a topic of discussion
before even the Great Renaming, when the size of the net paled in
comparison to its current existence.  It was a bad idea then and its a
worse idea now that the net is so much larger and has so many sites on
auto-control.  You can't get rid of groups on temporary subjects and
not being able to get rid of them means wasted time as people post
articles that disappear into a void and kind admins trying to help
them out.

   And let's be realistic, just how long does anyone think USENET will
   exist?  Forever?  Hardly.  USENET will exist until something makes
   it obsolete.  The more adaptable USENET is, the longer USENET will last.

Regardless, I'll bet it lasts longer than Twin Peaks.

   The "rmgroup" is a good compromise for all concerned.  Perhaps some sort
   of 'cleanup' rule of thumb could be applied to other groups, without
   making a complex algorithm out of it.  The ALTnet works so well this way.

Yeah, right.
--
   (setq mail '("tale@cs.rpi.edu" "tale@ai.mit.edu" "tale@rpitsmts.bitnet"))

kck@g.gp.cs.cmu.edu (Karl Kluge) writes:
> >Based on Sarah Palmer's obliviousness to the events of the previous
> >evening, Catherine and Ben thinking they were together that night
> >means nothing.

I suppose you are suggesting that BOB, while in Ben, not only made Ben
forget that he killed Laura, but that he also fucked with Ben and
Catherine's memories of that evening so that they each (independently, to
our eyes) believe they were with each other that night.  And this based
solely on Sarah Palmer's apparent unwillingness to exhibit any
remembrance of Leland's actions, which could be for several reasons.
Whoa!  You Ben-did-it's die hard!  This pathetic theory is tenuous, at best.

> >I think we can agree that whoever's blood was on the "fire, walk with me"
> >note was Bob's host that night.

Well, it sure as hell would be hard to explain any other way.  But it may
not be a foregone conclusion.  I'd bet it was Leland's blood, though I
don't have a favorite charity.  'Cept me, maybe.

Re Sarah's casuality the next morning:
> >I think she really doesn't remember. Making Catherine as alibi for Ben
> >worthless (from our point of view).

She may, or may not, remember.  But to stretch that to the conclusion
that BOB messed with Catherine's and Ben's minds????

Re Leland's bus stop lie to James & Donna:
> >While estimating time of death is an imprecise art, this is clearly a lie
> >Leland is going to get caught in.

Not so fast!  *WE* don't even know when Maddy died.  She may have been
alive in that golf bag, since her hand still looked flesh colored, rather
than pale.  I really don't think anyone's going to suspect Leland in the
first place, so this probably won't lead anywhere.

> >[...] OK, all you Leland-did-its, after 40 years of hanging around in
> >Leland, why this sudden disregard for his host's continued viability? What
> >is Bob's motive for his sudden, devil-may-care attitude to Leland?

Could be billions of possible reasons here.  So what?  The same could be
asked of the Ben-did-it's.  Why would Ben/BOB kill Teresa Banks, et. al.,
all of a sudden?  Yawn...

- Carl Johnson

peregier@vlsi.waterloo.edu (Phil Regier) writes:
> >Is it not possible that BOB was Ben Horne (as the clues were suggesting and
> >led to his arrest) and then when he was in jail, took over Leland?

Sure it's possible, but Ben still couldn't have done it, since he and
Catherine have both referenced their being together that night independently.
What would we gain if BOB had been in Ben at that time, yet not when Laura was
killed?  Everything we've seen has pointed to a Leland/BOB connection, and
absolutely NOTHING has pointed to BOB being anywhere else.  Occam's Razor
would be useful here, for those who doubt that Leland killed Laura Palmer.

- Carl Johnson

In article <Nov.20.17.36.33.1990.14755@pilot.njin.net> hadis@pilot.njin.net (Benjamin Hadis) writes:
> >
> >Seems like lots of people noticed that Cooper and Leland/Bob
> >were both whistling the same thing in different keys in the 11/17
> >episode.

What tune(s) was Leland performing at the Great Northern before Cooper talked
to him?

- Mark

In article <1990Nov20.211555.29020@ns.network.com> beckfdp@pallas.network.com (D. Pat Beckfield) writes:
> > ...
> >There are two metaphysical
> >explanations of the horse: 1) a manifestation of her drug-of-choice
> >(heroin); 2) (the REALLY metaphysical one) DEATH arriving -- not for
> >Sarah, but for Maddy.

Not to get redundant, but dreaming of horses (either white horses or
running horses or white running horses) is considered to be an omen 
that someone close to you has died or will die soon.  At least this is
the case in the superstitions and old wive's tales that abound in my
family.

Perhaps this is related to the Ukranian/Slavic "evil eye" superstitions
that have crossed the Atlantic along with my family, although I'm not well
versed enough to comment accurately.  My mother does insist that she had
dreamt of running horses the night my grandmother died, and when she woke
up, simply *knew* that my grandmother was dead.  Because of this story, as
soon as I saw the white horse, I was sure Maddy would be the next to die,
and die soon.

Probably poppycock, but spooky nevertheless.

Andrew

Disclaimer:  We just got alt.* back (YAHOO!!!) so I could be stumbling
through already well travelled ground.  My apologies.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Andrew Kowal        | jakowal@{rose.uwaterloo.ca, rose.waterloo.edu} -or-
      519/725-3850        | OZSCISTU@WATDCS.bitnet -or- Kowal@UNCAMULT.bitnet
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can someone remind me what we know about blood and blood types?  As I recall,
Jacques is AB and Leo's bloody shirt is AB.  What about "Fire walk with me"?
How can a blood test clear Ben?

E-mail preferred.

>>> >> >I MUST have the Twin Peaks soundtrack!  Does anyone know if you can get it on
>>> >> >CD?  What is on it?
>> >>
>> >> Yes - readily available.  It's on the Warner Bros label.
> >
> >Can anyone post the record number & title?

This is some damn fine listening, I'm not kidding!  Try listening to it
in the car... have a postmodern session at the laundromat!

------------------------------------------------------
                            SOUNDTRACK FROM TWIN PEAKS
                                Warner Bros. 9-26316-2

        Produced by David Lynch and Angelo Badalamenti

                   1. Twin Peaks Theme  (instrumental)

                2. Laura Palmer's Theme (instrumental)

                      3. Audrey's Dance (instrumental)

            4. The Nightingale (vocal by Julee Cruise)

                    5. Freshly Squeezed (instrumental)

                  6. The Bookhouse Boys (instrumental)

             7. Into the Night (vocal by Julee Cruise)

            8. Night Life in Twin Peaks (instrumental)

              9. Dance of the Dream Man (instrumental)

         10. Love Theme from Twin Peaks (instrumental)

                   11. Falling (vocal by Julee Cruise)
------------------------------------------------------

In article <1990Nov20.055225.22261@agate.berkeley.edu> raymond@math.berkeley.edu (Raymond Chen) writes:
> >[Followups sent to news.groups.  I have no clue why this was
> >cross-posted to alt.tv.twin-peaks originally.]

Because the proposal for rec.art.tv.twin-peaks contains a clause to
the effect that the newsgroup will self-destruct two months after
the show is cancelled.

> >Consequently, I think talking about "removing a group" is rubbish.
> >You can't remove a group, no matter how hard you try.

I agree, but then it's not my proposal.  I suggest you take this up
with Will Bell (bell@cs.tamu.edu).  It was his idea to include the
self-destruct clause in order to satisfy critics who maintain that 
Twin Peaks is just a trendy show and that interest in it will evapo-
rate once the show goes off the air.


==========================================================================
 remember me, buy my calendars / $12.95 ppd / 5704 s harper chicago 60637

In article <90324.162400ST00038@auvm.auvm.edu> ST00038@auvm.auvm.edu writes:
#In article <jjrq355n4@tmsoft.uucp>, mshiels@tmsoft.uucp (Michael A. Shiels)
#says:
#>
#>This is not her first time posing for PLAYBOY.  She has posed before.
#
#
#if you have ever seen the film "two moon junction" you would not be at all
#suprised that she has posed even more than once.  the film is *very* steamy
#and erotic with sherilyn playing the lead role.  very interesting movie.
#definitely worth the price of a rental -- not a sleazy flick if you know.

She's also the lead in a film on Cinemax this month called "Kiss of
the Beast".

Douglas Krause                     One yuppie can ruin your whole day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
University of California, Irvine   Internet: dkrause@orion.oac.uci.edu
Welcome to Irvine, Yuppieland USA  BITNET: DJKrause@ucivmsa

In article <7297@rnd.GBA.NYU.EDU>, hjohar@rnd.GBA.NYU.EDU (hjohar) writes...

} Personally, I don't think Donna and James are going to report their
} conversation to Cooper. Remember, the body was found a day later.
} Everyone will know that Maddy is dead. What they (the poeple) will
} not know is when she was killed. Therefore Donna and James will not
} know of the incongruity until the police and Cooper question them
} (where were you on the night od the ...). Given the quality of police
} work on TP so far, I doubt if they'll ever get around to asking that
} question.

Why not?  They did reasonably well at asking it when Laura was murdered.
Plus, given what James and Donna have been caught at before, I wouldn't
put it past Cooper to go directly to them and say, "OK, before you go off
investigating on your own again, and get someone killed, what information
do you have about Maddy's whereabouts that night?"

} Again, this being TP, it's quite likely that the autopsy results don't
} surface for a few days.

Why?  Doc Hayward had Laura's autopsy results within hours of her body
being found. Why not the same with Maddy?

-- "I can't die yet. I haven't seen THE JOLSON STORY." --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA) UUCP: ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian ARPA: boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM

In article <JLANGE.90Nov20104713@ap1seq.oracle.com> jlange@oracle.com (Jim Lange) writes:
> >I heard a blurb on the radio last night, but was not listening very carefully.
> >However, what I think I heard was that the actor who portrays Albert on Twin 
> >Peaks is, in fact, the child actor who played Will Robinson on Lost in Space!
> >
Nope, the actor who played Will Robinson was Billy Mummy.  The most recent 
thing he has been up to is tow write some comics (Comet Man, Star Trek).
One of his collaboraters on Comet Man is named similar to the actor who
plays Albert; this may be the cause of the confusion.

> >
> >Jim Lange
> >Oracle Corporation


Darryl

cate@csc.ti.com

Re the nit picking about blood typing.  First I sometimes think, we the
viewers, are becoming slightly obsessive with wanting this show to reflect
reality. Let's face it, this is Frost/Lynch and reality is not a concept
I think they consider essential to a *damn fine* story.

Now to the point about discovering blood types.  Recently in Toronto there
has been a  case were a young girl went missing and her body has not been
found. However her car was discovered with what appeared to be blood stains.
This happened several months ago in the summer, but the results of the
testing on the blood was only revealed this week.  Now, I'm not saying that
Toronto is at the forefront of blood sampling, but we are not a backwater
community.  In fact there is a rumour going around that we are "a world
class" city :>), so it is not inconceivable that it would take a couple
of hours for difinitive blood sampling in a small town with only one
hospital.  Remember this has to go to court and no one wants the case          t
thrown out on a technicality.


Linda

:Disclaimer; I freely admit that these opinions are not shared by my
employer, because I could not in good conscious admit to sharing any
opinion expressed by employer:

> >In response to Wolte.CS's comments on 11/3 "most of the violence is
> >directed against women....I don't know if this equates to sexism or
> >misogyny,...."

> >It equates reality.  Statistics show that the majority of violence is
> >is directed against women and usually the violence is random or with
> >out provocation, i.e. rape, child abuse, spousal abuse, purse snatching.

Hmmm.  I think you would have to quote the statistics.  I was under
the impression that the most likely victim of a violent crime
was a young black male.

> >Linda

Doug
----------

Would the person who posted the Twin Peaks samples for the Mac please
post the password???  That is a cruel joke to play on someone.  I can
see the names of the sounds, but need a password to unstuff 'em.

Thanks,
Parker

--
 James Parker   (parker@a.cs.wvu.wvnet.edu)     /* STANDARD DISCLAIMERS */   
   WVU ComputerScience     |
    Graphic & Computation  |          Do not write in this space.
    Lab Coordinator        |

In article <1990Nov21.142520.24510@csc.ti.com>, cate@csc.ti.com (Darryl Cate) writes...
> >In article <JLANGE.90Nov20104713@ap1seq.oracle.com> jlange@oracle.com (Jim Lange) writes:
>> >>I heard a blurb on the radio last night, but was not listening very carefully.
>> >>However, what I think I heard was that the actor who portrays Albert on Twin 
>> >>Peaks is, in fact, the child actor who played Will Robinson on Lost in Space!

> >Nope, the actor who played Will Robinson was Billy Mummy.  The most recent 
> >thing he has been up to is tow write some comics (Comet Man, Star Trek).
> >One of his collaborators on Comet Man is named similar to the actor who
> >plays Albert; this may be the cause of the confusion.

Miguel Ferrer plays Albert.  Billy Mummy played Will Robinson on "Lost in 
Space".  The two have collaborated on a number of projects including comics.
Now I heard this somewhere and it may not be at all reliable but supposedly
the two recorded that great tune: "Fishheads".  Can anyone verify this?

--Michelle

In article <47290@eerie.acsu.Buffalo.EDU> v101pyrw@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu writes:
> >
> >Miguel Ferrer plays Albert.  Billy Mummy played Will Robinson on "Lost in 
> >Space".  The two have collaborated on a number of projects including comics.
> >Now I heard this somewhere and it may not be at all reliable but supposedly
> >the two recorded that great tune: "Fishheads".  Can anyone verify this?
> >
> >--Michelle

 The song 'Fishheads' was done by Barnes & Barnes (YEAH! :-) ).
 I don't know if B&B are Ferrer & Mummy,  but it'd be great if
 true.  Remember the fish in the coffee pot?   Heh heh.

 Bud



-- William K Glunt | Are you ABNORMAL? U of Kentucky Math Dept.| Then you are probably better than most people! 606 258 8864 | Are alien space monsters bringing a STARTLING NEW | WORLD? from _The book of the SubGenius_

In article <114030032@hpcuhd.HP.COM> grega@hpcuhd.HP.COM (Number 6) writes:
> >Karl Kluge (kck@g.cs.cmu.edu):
> >
>> >>OK, all you Leland-did-its, after
>> >>40 years of hanging around in Leland, why this sudden disregard for
>> >>his host's continued viability? What is Bob's motive for his sudden,
>> >>devil-may-care attitude to Leland?
> >
> >Motive?  Poor writing, perhaps?

Or maybe after 40 years of success Bob is getting over-confident or just
bored with playing it save safe. Or maybe Bob is just in Leland's
mind, and as his madness progresses it gains control to a self destructive
degree.
 
a.h.

In article <114030030@hpcuhd.HP.COM> grega@hpcuhd.HP.COM (Number 6) writes:
> >mdtaylor@Apple.COM (Mark Taylor):
> >
>> >>Twin Peaks is "five miles south of the Canadian border, 12 miles west of the
>> >>state line" - Cooper in the premiere episode                     ====
> >
> >East! East! East!  Ughhhhhh!
> >

Don't forget to put in smilies when you're being facetious... (you are, right?)

- Mark

The university of Waterloo, where I work, recently
relented and allowed the return of the alts groups minus
the group which caused their banning alts.sex
now for the first time it is possible for me to join into
the discussions on alts.tv.twin-peaks.
 
Has anyone on this group suggested that Sarah was drugged
by Leland and that possibly he has been drugging
Sarah for years? 
That would explain how Laura could have been
abused for so many years and her cries for help gone unheeded.
If Leland also drugged Laura, it would explain why Laura was
not sure if her experience with bob was real or a dream.
 
If Leland and Gerrard were once partners in a drug business, that
would expain how Leland got the drugs to control his family.
 
In that case the horse Sarah saw could be her interpretation of what
was happening, that she was just having one of her night mares.
That would explain why she was so calm the next day, if this was
a familiar occurance for her, waking up after terrible 'nightmares'.
 
ann hodgins

In article <1990Nov21.181053.21163@watserv1.waterloo.edu> alternat@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Ann Hodgins) writes:
> >In article <114030032@hpcuhd.HP.COM> grega@hpcuhd.HP.COM (Number 6) writes:
>> >>Karl Kluge (kck@g.cs.cmu.edu):
>> >>
>>> >>>OK, all you Leland-did-its, after
>>> >>>40 years of hanging around in Leland, why this sudden disregard for
>>> >>>his host's continued viability? What is Bob's motive for his sudden,
>>> >>>devil-may-care attitude to Leland?
>> >>
> >
> >Or maybe after 40 years of success Bob is getting over-confident or just
> >bored with playing it save safe. Or maybe Bob is just in Leland's
> >mind, and as his madness progresses it gains control to a self destructive
> >degree.
> > 

Perhaps BOB/Leland was satisfied or content with the incestuous 
relationship with his daughter Laura...but Laura was reaching an
age where she could escape the parasitic relationship.  Losing
Laura was perhaps provoking a crisis in BOB/Leland with the
result being the current outbreak of mayhem.
 

Gerald

Peter Howell of toronto Canada has a reference book
called A Dictionary of Symbols by J E Cirlot.

alternat@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Ann Hodgins) writes:

> >In article <114030032@hpcuhd.HP.COM> grega@hpcuhd.HP.COM (Number 6) writes:
>> >>Karl Kluge (kck@g.cs.cmu.edu):
>>> >>>OK, all you Leland-did-its, after
>>> >>>40 years of hanging around in Leland, why this sudden disregard for
>>> >>>his host's continued viability? What is Bob's motive for his sudden,
>>> >>>devil-may-care attitude to Leland?
>> >>Motive?  Poor writing, perhaps?
> >Or maybe after 40 years of success Bob is getting over-confident or just
> >bored with playing it save safe. ...

Not even that.  The only one who has any stake in Leland's well-being
is Leland.  BOB can just find a new host.  This may not be painless,
but won't cause permanent damage (to BOB).

/JBL
=

Nets: levin@bbn.com  |     "I studied the tabletop.  It had a nice mosaic
 or {...}!bbn!levin  |  pattern of black against green.
POTS: (617)873-3463  |     "'Well,' I said after a time.  'That really
                     |  sucks.'"           --SKZB

In article <114030030@hpcuhd.HP.COM> grega@hpcuhd.HP.COM (Number 6) writes:
> >mdtaylor@Apple.COM (Mark Taylor):
>> >>Twin Peaks is "five miles south of the Canadian border, 12 miles west of the
>> >>state line" - Cooper in the premiere episode                     ====
> >
> >East! East! East!  Ughhhhhh!

Ughhhhhh yourself.

Rough map of Washington State, which _is_ where Twin Peaks is, as has been
posted on the net:

---------------
|            *|     N
|             |    W E
|             |     S
---------------

Twin Peaks is where the star is:  it is _south_ of the Canadian border and
_west_ of the state line.  Otherwise it would be in Idaho.

Any questions?

> >|  Greg Anderson  |   hpcuhd!grega      |      grega@hpcuhd.HP.COM           |



--
Rob Jellinghaus                 | "Next time you see a lie being spread or
Autodesk, Inc.                  |  a bad decision being made out of sheer
robertj@Autodesk.COM            |  ignorance, pause, and think of hypertext."
{decwrl,uunet}!autodesk!robertj |    -- K. Eric Drexler, _Engines of Creation_

alternat@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Ann Hodgins) writes:

> >Peter Howell of toronto Canada has a reference book
> >called A Dictionary of Symbols by J E Cirlot.
> > 
>From this book Howell has recently published some theories
> >in the newspapers...
> > 
> >Giants and Dwarves:  In Cirlot's book backwards talking dwarves
> >watch over sleeping beauties - Laura and Maddy?
> > 
Backwards talking dwarves isn't a new idea !!??  Is there any
reference in literature ( or folklore ) given?

> >Cooper's Hotel room: numeralogically a point of meeting or a rift
> >between heaven and hell.
> > 
You mean his room number?  What is it?

A couple of cute things from last week's show --
The flashlight dance -- The usual game is for the spectators to
hold the flashlight, this scene was backwards.  I just thought of
this -- this is another use of the spotlight, this time in a non-
threatening situation.

Leland saying "something about a 'dairy'", probably a reference to 
Steven King's It, which was showing on ABC the next night.  "It"
takes place in a town called Derry.
--
John Carey
University of Illinois
Dept. of Computer Science
carey@a.cs.uiuc.edu
{uu-net,pur-ee,convex,...}!uiucdcs!carey

TWIN PEAKS 
FREQUENTLY ANSWERED QUESTIONS
Last update: 11/21/90
(Many of these concern what various people said.  Many thanks to Bart
J. Geraci, the man with the closed caption decoder.)

WARNING: This article may contain references to any episode up to and
including the most recent one shown in the U.S.  

1. What's this "secret diary" that everybody keeps referring to?
-- _The Secret Diary of Laura Palmer_ was written by Jennifer Lynch
(David's daughter), and is published in the U.S by Pocket
Books, and in the U.K. Penguin Books.  It's supposed to be the
text of the diary that was discovered in the second season of
the show.  

2. a) What language was the little boy with the creamed corn speaking?
-- French
   b) What did he say?
-- J'ai une ame solitaire: I have a solitary soul.  (This is according
to the closed captions, so we don't want to know what your
friend who had three years of French thought it was.)
   c) Didn't he look an awful lot like David Lynch?
-- Yes, that's because he's Austin Jack Lynch, David Lynch's son.
   (For handy reference, look at Gordon Cole (Cooper's boss): he's played
   by David Lynch.)

3. What was that ditty Leland was singing, and what does it mean?
-- The full lyrics of the song are:

Mairzy doats and dozy doats
and little lambzy divy.
A kiddly divy, too, wooden shoe?

Now if the words sounds queer,
and funny to your ear,
a little bit jumbled and jivy,
Sing:

Mares eat oats and does eats oats
and little lambs eat ivy.
A kid'll eat ivy, too, wouldn't you?

   If necessary, go look up "mare," "doe" and "kid" in the dictionary.

4. Wasn't the Giant also on Star Trek: The Next Generation?
-- Yes, he is Carel Struycken, who played Mr. Homm.  No, he did not
play Lurch on the Adams Family (although it has been reported
that he will play Lurch in an upcoming AF movie).

5. Who was standing outside the window while Josie was seducing Harry?
-- The majority of posters believe it was the Mysterious Asian
Gentleman, also known as "Jonathan", Josie's "cousin" from
Hong Kong.  Those who have suggested other people are pushing it.

6. What were the three predictions that the giant made to Cooper?
-- a man in a smiling bag
   the owls are not what they seem
   without chemicals, he points

   The giant also said something about "Leo locked in a hungry horse,"
and that there was a clue at Leo's house.  However, these were
not the "predictions" which will be fulfilled before Cooper
gets his ring back.  The former refers to the fact that Leo
was in jail in Hungry Horse, Montana when Theresa Banks was
killed, and the latter refers to the Circle Brand boots that
were found with the cocaine at Leo's house.

7. What did the person say who answered the phone when Andy called
"Gwen and Larry", where he thought Lucy was staying?
-- "Adams abortion clinic"

8. What did Harold say to Laura and Maddy as he scratched his face
with the garden fork?
-- "Are you looking for secrets? Is that what all this is about?
 Well, maybe I can help you. Do you know what the ultimate
 secret is? You want to know?
 Laura did.
 The secret of knowing who killed you."

9. Has anybody mentioned the possible connection between:
   * BOB and J. R. "Bob" Dobbs of the Church of the Subgenius?
   * All the donuts they eat on Twin Peaks, and JFK's "Ich bin ein
Berliner" speech?  What he literally said was "I am a jelly
donut." 
   * Agent Dale Cooper and D.B. Cooper, the guy who hijacked a plane
and then parachuted over Washington State with a whole bunch
of money and was never found?  
   * Ben and Jerry Horne and Ben and Jerry's brand ice cream (in one
scene the brothers Horne are even shown eating ice cream)?
   * Sarah's vision of a white horse and Mr. Ed?
   *   "       "    "  "   "    "     "  Laura' pony, Troy?
   *   "       "    "  "   "    "     "  Death, which "rides a pale
 horse"?
   *   "       "    "  "   "    "     "  heroin, also known as "white
 horse" (maybe Leland/BOB shot
 her up with heroin)?
-- Yes for all of the above.

10. What was the poem that "Mike" recited in Cooper's dream, and later
at the police station?
-- "Through the darkness of future past
    the magician longs to see
    one chants out between two worlds
    'Fire walk with me.'"

11. How were the funny voices in the dream sequence done?
-- Before shooting the scene, the actors were recorded reading their
lines.  The recording was then played to them backwards, and
they memorized how to imitate it.  Each shot in the scene was
acted in reverse order, with the actors saying their
"backwards" lines.  The film was then reversed so that the
actions came out in the right order, and the words came out
double-reversed.  Unfortunately, the words weren't very
intelligible, so subtitles were added.

12. Who was that long-haired guy in the background when Cooper brought
Audrey to the Bookhouse from One Eyed Jack's?  It looked like BOB!
-- Nope.  It was Joey Paulson, who's a friend of James and is one of
the Bookhouse Boys (he was also the one who took Donna to meet
James in the woods, early in the series).  Further evidence
that it was Joey in that scene is that Joey gets a credit at
the end of the episode (BOB does not).

13. What year is the show set in?
-- References in the first season placed it in 1989.  However, _The
Secret Diary of Laura Palmer_ places the action in 1990.
Sources on the production team (i.e., Scott Frost) indicate
that it's been sort of miraculously moved up to 1990.
Apparently, the producers and directors have trouble keeping
track of what day it's supposed to be in Twin Peaks, never
mind what year.

14. Maddy notices a burning smell just before she's attacked by
Leland/BOB.  Didn't Jacoby say he smelled burned oil in the
hospital when Jacques was killed?  Does this mean that Leland
was BOB when he killed Jacques?
-- No.  Later, under hypnosis, Jacoby corrected himself and said that
he smelled the burned smell just before he was attacked at the
gazebo, but not at the hospital.  However, this does leave
open the possibility that Jacoby was attacked by BOB.

15. a) Where is Twin Peaks supposed to be? 
-- It's in the State of Washington, but where exactly is not clear.
In Cooper's initial monolog to Diane as he's driving into
town, he states that it's five miles south of the Canadian
border and twelve miles west of the state line.  That would
seem to place it in the northeast corner of the state.
However the surrounding geography is like that of the Cascade
Mountains in western WA.  References to cities such as Seattle
and Tacoma, but not Spokane, also seem to place it in western
WA.  The show's creators seem to have smooshed the state so
that it all fits west of the Cascades.
    b) How big a town is Twin Peaks?
-- Again, that's not exactly clear.  The population sign that's shown
at station breaks and on the Twin Peaks sound track indicates
51,201.  However cues in the show seem to indicate that it's
much much smaller than that.  For instance, it doesn't have a
resident circuit court judge, which any town of 51K+ in the
U.S. would; it has a sheriff's department but no police
department.  On the other hand, it does have its own hospital,
a fancy department store, and a large hotel.  It seems the
creators haven't worried too much about being consistent on
this point.

16. Has anybody noticed that the Twin Peaks soundtrack gives special
thanks to, among other people, Bob (no last name)?
-- Yes.
--
Janet SwisherInternet: swsh@midway.uchicago.edu
University of ChicagoPhone: (312) 702-7608
Academic and Public ComputingP-mail: 1155 E. 60th St. Chicago IL 60637, USA
"This whole world's wild at heart and weird on top."  -- Lula

I've been posting this file whenever I've had time and "enough" new
material for an update.  This has ranged from two days to a week and a
half.  Would folks prefer for me to post it on a more regular and/or
frequent basis?

I appreciate any other feedback on items to include, format,
organization, etc.  (Of course, this doesn't necessarily mean I'll
implement your suggestions :-)

I'd especially like to hear from anyone for whom the file has served
its intended purpose:  it answered a question for you that you would
have otherwise posted to the net.

Please email me -- the whole idea of this is to cut down on
net.traffic.


--
Janet SwisherInternet: swsh@midway.uchicago.edu
University of ChicagoPhone: (312) 702-7608
Academic and Public ComputingP-mail: 1155 E. 60th St. Chicago IL 60637, USA
"This whole world's wild at heart and weird on top."  -- Lula

> > From what I have read about child abuse, particurlarly incest,
> > is that the child assumes very strong and creative denial
> > systems that allow them to mentally survive the abuse.
.-.
|H|aving worked a little in a rape crisis center, I also theorized
`-' that BOB was a manifestation of Laura's denial.  Reading the
    diary made it clear that she had been sexually abused from
    even before the age of twelve.  I wasn't sure by whom, but
    as an abuser is usually a male family member or acquaintance,
    I suspected either Leland or Ben.
.-.
|G|iven that Laura is psychically gifted (as is Sarah and Maddy),
`-' I assumed that BOB was a creation of hers that she left about
    the psychic aether for others (Sarah, Cooper, etc.) to see.
    (Note that I have no idea if this fits in with real theories
    of ESP and such.  I just imagine that something like that could
    be afoot in a TV show where Coop is "a strong sender" and Sarah
    and Maddy are strong receivers.
.-.
|W|hen Leland mentioned knowing BOB as a boy, my theory adjusted
`-' so that Leland (as a boy) was a victim of molestation by BOB.
    Perpetrators of abuse were often victims of abuse themselves,
    so this fit in rather well.  Laura may have read BOB from
    Leland's memories . . .

      * * *
.-.
|T|he business about BOB being an inhabiting spirit blows most of
`-' this theory away, but remnants of it may still apply.  I still
    like to think, as somebody else has put it, that the death of
    Laura had some ground in reality.  Time will tell.

/F356/<_Jym_Dyer_>/B893/A972/F83/H25/N729/F387/G298/O37/X235/Q734/
/X243/K822/L262/B23/THE/OWLS/ARE/NOT/WHAT/THEY/SEEM/B383/L947/M84/
/M867/B586/K389/O98/AND/I/LIKE/WHALES/N37/B88/L867/P213/N297/B957/
/W482/jym@mica.berkeley.edu/I55/K387/P987/R80/Z903/Y983/O092/C381/

[R> = "Ron Barr"   h> = "hikaru"]

R> early on it looked like the Theresa Banks, Ronette Pulaski,
R> "Fire walk with me" and dwarf dream sequences were fun
R> interesting visuals not particularly related to anything.
.-.
|H|old on . . . I'm trying to play this here George Michael tape.
`-' . . . Shan't be a minute . . . ah . . .

"Look at my butt, Dennis!  It's a force to be reckoned
 with!  You can't deny it!"

    Oops!  Wrong tape.  Let's try this one:

"You gotta have faith faith faith.
 Yeah, faith faith faith.
 You gotta have faith faith faith.
 Yeah, faith faith faith."
.-.
|I| never thought these things were forgotten, even if "Top
`-' Writers" in _TV_Guide_ did.  It's not like normal TV,
    where everything gets resolved right away.

h> There have been too many coincidences - the most amazing being
h> a.t.tp figuring out that Leo's "new shoes" remark back in 1.3
h> actually meant something significant, about a month before it
h> was even brought up again in the series.
.-.
|T|o be fair, every tiny detail in the show has been picked up
`-' and theorized as significant by this group.  We're bound to
    get some of them right.

/F356/<_Jym_Dyer_>/B893/A972/F83/H25/N729/F387/G298/O37/X235/Q734/
/X243/K822/L262/B23/THE/OWLS/ARE/NOT/WHAT/THEY/SEEM/B383/L947/M84/
/M867/B586/K389/O98/AND/I/LIKE/WHALES/N37/B88/L867/P213/N297/B957/
/W482/jym@mica.berkeley.edu/I55/K387/P987/R80/Z903/Y983/O092/C381/

.-.
|I| don't buy the theory that Laura herself has become an
`-' inhabiting spirit (and, for example, made Donna "slutty,"
    to use an inappropriate term that some clueless types
    can't seem to get beyond).  There's no evidence that
    she's had any training in magic, which one presumably
    needs to have to become such a thing.

     ( Diary Discussion Haters Hit "n" Now )
.-.
|T|he diary mentions orgies in the woods, which seemed kinda
`-' ritualistic to me.  No actual magician initiation was
    mentioned, though.  I wonder if mention of this stuff
    will come up in the show?

/F356/<_Jym_Dyer_>/B893/A972/F83/H25/N729/F387/G298/O37/X235/Q734/
/X243/K822/L262/B23/THE/OWLS/ARE/NOT/WHAT/THEY/SEEM/B383/L947/M84/
/M867/B586/K389/O98/AND/I/LIKE/WHALES/N37/B88/L867/P213/N297/B957/
/W482/jym@mica.berkeley.edu/I55/K387/P987/R80/Z903/Y983/O092/C381/

<meier@spock (Rolf Meiera>) writes:

 > Has anyone who wtches Twin Peaks ever seen Forbidden Planet
 > or The Tempest?

Well yes. Got a point to make? Bob is a monster from the id?
How does this help?

-->Keith
------------------------------------------------------
Keith Dawson                     dawson@epps.kodak.com
  Atex Advanced Publishing Systems        
  165 Lexington Rd. (400/165L)            508-670-4025  
  Billerica, MA  01821                fax 508-670-4033 
------------------------------------------------------

--
------------------------------------------------------
Keith Dawson                     dawson@epps.kodak.com
  Atex Advanced Publishing Systems        
  165 Lexington Rd. (400/165L)            508-670-4025

In article <62543@unix.cis.pitt.edu> tjw@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Terry J. Wood) writes:
> >
> >The important thing is to remember that USENET is here to serve us.

We must TAKE CARE to ensure that it retains its ability to do so.

> >
> >All of this has come up because someone was worried about what will
> >happen if the television show were to be canceled.  I agreed to remove
> >the group when the time was right as a compromise (and a net-public-service).
> >

Ok.  Just HOW do you propose to make an rmgroup really happen?  Are you
going to get a user ID on THOUSANDS of systems and do it yourself?  Be real.

> >Now we hear that USENET can not deal with a "temporary" subject.  It
> >must be permanent to be a part of USENET.  I really don't see why this
> >must be true -- it simply hasn't been addressed before.  It's a new idea,
> >that's all.  And let's be realistic, just how long does anyone think
> >USENET will exist?  Forever?  Hardly.  USENET will exist until something
> >makes it obsolete.  The more adaptable USENET is, the longer USENET will
> >last.

I'll tell you why it's true.  Because each system in Usenet is autonomous.
There's no board of directors.  And there's no Usenet "superuser".  To
successfully remove a group from the net requires LOTS of folks to act in
concert.  Until an architectural or other change happens in Usenet, the
situation will remain that way.

So I'd suggest we look at making Usenet "adaptable" FIRST before we go and
implement something it can't handle well.  Let's not put the cart before the
horse.

===========================================================================
Rick McCarty                    "arg"
mccarty@aaet.csc.ti.com                            :-)~*|>
===========================================================================

Someone recently mentioned the B0B/Leland's mention of the "Dairy"
was REALLY a, get this, plug for DERRY which is therefore related 
to Stephen King's IT because it is the town IN WHICH IT TOOK PLACE.

Allow me to borrow anothers quote :

23q04567oieuhgzxofthp9ydsh tbskjgfkldjthgfsaoe95yh4woubhrolsdhnfosidhf
sdtkbw5ug34w598y2345986y34wiuh*6)(&^IUG@$(&^ijHsrpw884y5wiuhzeuidshrw4957khdf
sjhdgfksjhdtois465iusg45kihgse89yt6saoi45hgsiluthgpws9y45thrpwiu45hliktr
sa;5u4wy598y4wpkisjhbdfkjshg\

^^  this is my head hitting the keyboard

My lord.   

mikul@darkside.com -orevenbetter- mikul@ucscb.ucsc.edu -forevenmorefun-
24hours a day IN STEREO 23hours a day IN STEREO 22hours a day IN STEREO

In article <114030030@hpcuhd.HP.COM> grega@hpcuhd.HP.COM (Number 6) writes:

>> >>Twin Peaks is "five miles south of the Canadian border, 12 miles west of the
>> >>state line" - Cooper in the premiere episode                     ====

> >East! East! East!  Ughhhhhh!

West! West! West! Arghhhhh!

Dale Schouten
schouten@uiuc.edu

In article <90324.160747SJS132@psuvm.psu.edu> <SJS132@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:


> >  The "White Horse" must have been the spirit of "Troy", the horse Laura
> >Palmer owned as a child.  (Read "The Diary of Laura Palmer")

The Trojan horse theory was beat to death already as soon as it
appeared in the previews on 11/3, which is not to say that it isn't a
possibility, though the current favorite hypothesis seems to be that it
is a symbol of death (Presumably Maddy's).

`We could build a giant wooden badger . . .'
Dale Schouten
schouten@uiuc.edu

> > Thre traffic to alt.tv.twin-peaks is becoming huge, and a large
> > part of this is because of people posting excerpts from the
> > diary.  The diary isn't helping, [its] pages can support any
> > theory!
.-.
|N|o, the diary establishes parameters that actually help to
`-' derail bad theories (which have swamped alt.tv.twin-peaks
    since its inception, well before the diary was printed).
    The "Maddy is Laura" theory, for example, bites the dust
    (along with "Maddy and Laura are secretly twin sisters"
    and other such nonsense) with the diary's revelation that
    the two were born four years apart from each other.
    <_Jym_> (Hoot! Hoot!)

/F356/<_Jym_Dyer_>/B893/A972/F83/H25/N729/F387/G298/O37/X235/Q734/
/X243/K822/L262/B23/THE/OWLS/ARE/NOT/WHAT/THEY/SEEM/B383/L947/M84/
/M867/B586/K389/O98/AND/I/LIKE/WHALES/N37/B88/L867/P213/N297/B957/
/W482/jym@mica.berkeley.edu/I55/K387/P987/R80/Z903/Y983/O092/C381/

In article <33085@netnews.upenn.edu> bartlett@cattell.psych.upenn.edu (Thomas A. Bartlett) writes:
*It was recently suggested that Ben Horne is Laura's real father, unbeknownst
*to Leland, but known to Laura via Sarah.
*I lost who originally proposed this.  One problem:  Cousin Mattie looks almost
*identical, by virtue of a very similar gene pool.

First, let me say that I don't think the Ben-is-Laura's-dad has any evidence
for it -- I just like it because it's a neat theory.

Anyway, Maddy's resemblance is no problem at all.  The reason Maddie and
Laura look alike is because of SARAH Palmer.  Sarah is Maddy's aunt and
is Laura's mother.  As far as I can tell this is the only genetic link 
between Laura and Maddy.  This genetic link still holds no matter who 
Laura's dad is.


Jespah

Hello, well it was bound to happen, Albert has his own tv show...
Its called "Broken Badges" and premieres on CBS on Sat. Nov. 24th.

beckfdp@pallas.network.com (D. Pat Beckfield) writes:

> > I've been waiting for someone to post the (perhaps not so) obvious, but
> > as there is an inability to grasp it, here goes...
> > 
> > A.Sarah was strungout while Leland killed Maddy.  It's her defense against
> > the abuse that's been going on around her.  She was oblivious to the
> > murder and powerless to stop it.  There are two metaphysical
> > explanations of the horse: 1) a manifestation of her drug-of-choice
> > (heroin); 2) (the REALLY metaphysical one) DEATH arriving -- not for
> > Sarah, but for Maddy.
> > 
> > D. Patrick Beckfield                          beckfdp@eros.network.com
> > Network Systems Corporation
> > Minneapolis, MN


Actually, there is some evidence. In the Diary, it is written that "Maybe 
Dad knows BOB, too, but Mom won't let him talk about it because it upsets 
everyone so much."
Maybe this is more perceptive than she actually thought.

**************************************************************************
"Mr. BOB, you've killed Theresa Banks,   *                Richard Barrett
 Laura Palmer, Jacques Renault, and      *             18004 146th Ave NE
 Maddy Ferguson. What are you going to   *          Woodinville, WA 98072
 do next?"                               *                (206)487-1312
"I'm going to Disneyland!"               *hikaru%halcyon.uucp@seattleu.edu
**************************************************************************

In article <JLANGE.90Nov20104713@ap1seq.oracle.com> jlange@oracle.com (Jim Lange) writes:
> >I heard a blurb on the radio last night, but was not listening very carefully.
> >However, what I think I heard was that the actor who portrays Albert on Twin 
> >Peaks is, in fact, the child actor who played Will Robinson on Lost in Space!
> >

Hello, the UWaterloo alt.* feed is back!
The actor who plays Albert is also Jose Ferrer's son is he not?

vik
--

Hell is not the fire
Hell is your belief
In yourself as the higher  -- P. Murphy

In article <11461@milton.u.washington.edu> cloud9@milton.u.washington.edu (Robert Fovell) writes:
> >In article <1990Nov19.235343.7937@alembic.acs.com> csu@alembic.acs.com (Dave Mack) writes:
>> >>
>> >>What do you bet that the "real" Leland doesn't know he killed Maddy?
> >
> >But, does the real Leland truly believe he took Maddy to the bus station
> >20 minutes before talking to James and Donna (many hours after she was
> >dead)?

I think the "real" Leland has been asleep since he murdered Jacques
Renault.

> >I'm still unclear about how the Palmer house got back to normal so
> >quickly after Maddy's murder.  Didn't the "Missoula, Montana" framed
> >painting (picture) get smashed?  Why doesn't Sarah Palmer remember anything?

Normal? The place looked like a golf ball breeding ranch.

As for the condition of the house: with Leland driving golf balls in
the living room, would you be surprised that a picture had gotten
broken? And Maddy wasn't bleeding all that much - I expect we'll
see BOB doing a Formula 409 commercial real soon now.

Sarah passed out after seeing the white horse. She was either drunk or
drugged; I'd put my money on the latter. Leland/BOB had the evening
planned - hence the gloves and the pre-cut letter. Getting Sarah out
of the way temporarily was part of the plan. She may have had several
blackouts since Laura's death - or before it. Her nerves haven't been
exactly rock solid the last couple of weeks, TP time. And if she awoke
in her own bed, she might have chalked her stair-crawling episode up as
a bad dream.

-- Dave Mack

In article <1990Nov21.183426.22518@watserv1.waterloo.edu> alternat@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Ann Hodgins) writes:
> >The university of Waterloo, where I work, recently
> >by Leland and that possibly he has been drugging
> >Sarah for years? 
> >That would explain how Laura could have been
> >abused for so many years and her cries for help gone unheeded.
> >If Leland also drugged Laura, it would explain why Laura was
> >not sure if her experience with bob was real or a dream.

Sure .... It could explain a lot.

For example, it could explain why Sarah had all those visions of BOB - she
was chemically flashing on all those epsiodes when Leland would candy in her
coffee and then fiddle with Laura, epsiodes which would be only hazily 
remembered by Sarah.  It could explain why Sarah would get inexplicably
nervous whenever Leland started to fixate on the dancing with Laura bit.
Perhaps she was nervous because Leland was acting weird, but she was also
panicy to the point that it would be easy to infer her panic as half remembered
episodes of torment!

It could also explain the source of Laura's drug habit, and the fact that Laura
had a thing with Jaques Renaud (at least, perhaps more) who was a member of the
Canadian drug connection - if Leland was a member of the drug connection then
it would be much more plausible the Laura would get mixed up in that group of
people.

vik
--

Hell is not the fire
Hell is your belief
In yourself as the higher  -- P. Murphy

We are quite ready and willing to deal with temporary newsgroups in the
trial hierarchy.   You don't get trial?  So go and get it -- it's not as
though it is any different than comp.   There are many sites you can
get it from.
-- Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Waterloo, Ontario 519/884-7473