Fire Walk with Me — August 28, 1992–December 31, 1992

Since I've never read the original shooting script for FWWM, and missed any
articles dealing with it, could someone please fill me in on the details of
some of the scenes that were cut from the 2 hour theatrical version?

particularly...

The extended Jefferies (D. Bowie) scene
The murder of L. Palmer
Jack Nance's scenes
Jurgen Prochnow's scene (I can't believe he got billing with only 3-4 seconds
           of screen time)
Thanks in advance
please e-mail or post
todd

BTW,  I thought the movie was excellent.

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In article <1992Aug29.083023.669@cs.mun.ca>, georgen@pooky.cs.mun.ca
(George Noel) wrote:
> >    Here are some thoughts/questions about the movie..
> > 
> >     How did Laura and Ronnette know Theresa Banks? I know they possed all posed
> >     in "Fleshworld", but did Theresa ever work at One Eyed Jack's with Laura
> >     and Ronnette or was the connection there because of the drug deals?

We can't be sure from the movie. Any or all of the above could be the
answer.
     
> >      Also, I assumed the person Theresa was blackmailing was Leland thus why
> >      he killed her, but how did Theresa know Leland again?

We don't know how. One possibility is Leland contacted her because of her
ad in Fleshworld.
      
> >       Who lived in the trailer that Agent Chet Desmond found the ring under?
> >        My guess would be the one armed man?

Nope. It was the Old lady and her grandson. She was called Mrs. Tremond in
the original, has a different name in FWWM but I forget.
> >    
> >    I assume the man that Bobby killed was the Deputy of Meadow Creek.
Yup.
> >    How is he related to the drug deals? (Did he work for Jean Renault?)

We don't know, but the contact was made through J.

> >    Is there a connection between that and why Theresa Banks got killed?
Nope.
> >    Also, why did Laura call the deputy "Mike"?

Good question. Wish I had an answer.
     
> >      The picture of the room with the door opened that was given to
> >      Laura, was that the room "above the convenience store"?

Nope. That room is shown in the vision sequence during Bowies part.

> >      At the end, I assume Laura was entering the White Lodge? The
> >      good Cooper was there also. But the question still remains..
> > 
> >       How *IS* Annie? :-) She was full of blood in Laura's dream but
> >       that doesn't mean she is dead. Hmm..

We can't be sure, but things are looking worse for Annie's physical
survival. My guess is that whatever made it to the outside world was dead
(most likely, given the looks on Harry and Doc's face) or died. Her spirit
is probably in the white lodge.  In Laura's dream she says  
"My name is Annie.  I've been with Dale and Laura.  The good Dale is
in the lodge and he can't leave.  Write it in your diary."
> > 
> > -=*George*=-

-Rich

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In <p9efkuk@fido.asd.sgi.com> sjohnson@faulen.asd.sgi.com (Scott Johnson) writes:

> >In <Btv7JC.9Dz@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> ceblair@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Charles Blair) writes:


>> >>   It seemed as if Cooper kept going back and forth between the area
>> >>the camera was surveying and the TV monitor for no good reason right
>> >>before Bowie showed up.  Did I miss something?

> >i think he sensed time slowing down, as someone else mentioned.  so much
> >that he went to the display room first, saw nothing.  went to the
> >display room a second time, saw his arm in the door.  and then went
> >to the display room a third time, and saw himself stuck there in
> >time as jeffries walked by, unhindered by time.  just a guess?

He already had a dream about this.  That's why he was so concerned when
he went up to Lynches character and said "It's 10:02 already".  He
was expecting this to happen.

I think..

Phil

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Hello there.  As such, I haven't seen FWWM yet, so I cannot comment
on it just now.  Most of my friends didn't follow the series anyway.

In any case, I have two questions : I have heard that Julee Cruise
is now in another band; anybody knows which one?

Secondly, a friend of mine wants to know in which fashion magazine
Sherilyn (sp?) Fenn appeared last year.  Any info would be
appreciated.  Have a .. good time of the day.



Steph
Ain't got no sig, mun.

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In article <1992Aug30.070024.3469@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>,
as215@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alexander Aingworth) wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > It seems Jack Nance was originally intended to reprise his role,
> > Pete Martell, but his scenes were removed in the final cut of Fire Walk
> > With Me.  What did Pete Martell do in the movie before he was removed?
> > 

All I can tell you is that when I evesdropped on David Lynch preparing Jack
and Joan Chen (they had both just arrived on location that day), he talked
about a scene that goes like this.

Some man (memory is that he had something to do with the postoffice)
complains to Joan (Ms. Packard) that the 2x4's he bought aren't 2x4 (as
anyone who has ever measured one knows). She in turn goes up to the mill to
see Pete about this and there was supposed to be a funny scene. At this
point, Kyle's brother ran me off.

Since this was supposed to be a comic scene, and there are none that I can
remember in the LP part (there are a lot of laughs in the TB part), that
may be part of why it was cut, namely, the decision was made to do without
any comic relief at all. No joy at all except for her perverse laughter at
the murder of the deputy.

I did wonder whether the unfortunate suicide of Jack's wife had anything to
do with it, but my guess is no, now that I've seen the movie.

-Rich Haller

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In a previous article, 01sybok@ac.dal.ca wrote:
> >I just realized something. The Little Man From Another Place is Mike.
> >Think about it: he "spoke" through the One Armed Man in the Lodge. I 
> >would therefor say that he is "possessing"  the OAM in the same way BOB
> >possesses Leland. We know the being possing the OAM is Mike. Therefore,
> >the LMFAP is probably MIKE. Neat, eh?

Remember when the dwarf said "I am the arm?" I think he somehow represents
the evil that MIKE lost when he lost his arm and was "purified." 
But when did this supposedly happen to MIKE? After Laura's murder?

-
Bart "Webb" Tilney|   "All of life is a blur 
Email: htilney@vax.clarku.edu|    of Republicans and meat!"

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In article <15239@umd5.umd.edu> jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog  
here...) writes:
> > We all know controversy sells.  Look at the way an overwhelmingly complex,
> >
[stuff deleted]
> > So...
> > 
> > If David Lynch and company had wanted a blockbuster, all they needed to do
> > was publicize how "Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me" was the story of a
> > coke-snorting bisexual whose sexual practices lead to her death.

But the question is do they (okay, New Line Cinema probably would love to have  
a blockbuster) want a blockbuster?

Check out other Lynch films and how they did box-office wise.
I don't think any of them got to be blockbuster, correct me if I'm wrong.

kris

pranata@watserv.ucr.edu

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Why did Leland's hair turn white in the TV series?  I thought it was
because BOB had taken over his mind/body/soul.  Coop said he should
have realized earlier that BOB's grey, greasy hair, and the sudden
change in Leland's hair was related.

In the movie, it seems that BOB had controled Leland from long ago.

Clueless,


Mike
----

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I need help on the "Let's Rock" on the windshield. Where did that reference
come from?

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I was just thinking... maybe the last few scenes in the cabin (the poker chip,
"bite the bullet, baby!" were the ones cut to garner a mere R (or whatever the 
hell it is now) rating.

What about that ed/nadine scene where she guts the deer? I really was looking 
forward to that!

Oh, well. Look on the bright side, folks. Maybe they'll add on the good stuff
when it comes to video
Mike, angry that they wouldn't let coffee and donuts into the theatre.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Ever see a mouse panic when it grasps the full implications of its place 
on the food chain?
-Jim Kasprzak
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:

> > So, I guess the Canadian tourism industry is in for a boom after
> > that Pink Room scene ;-)

Come to think of it, how far from Canada is Twin Peaks supposed to be? I
thought it was rather far away from it, but characters seem to get to and
from Canada rather quickly.


--
"Go to an extreme and then retreat to a more useful position"  --  Brian Eno
Joe Zitt        ...cs.utexas.edu!kvue!zitt!joe         (512)450-1916

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I was jjst thinking... not only did Aleister Crowley write "moonchild", 
he also designed a set of Tarot cards. Does anyone out there have this set?
How is it different from, say, the Rider tarot cards? Maybe there's a himt in 
the cards...
Mike (you crazy fucking Canadian!)

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Nuff said
Mike (under the sycamore trees...)

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Interesting you should mention this.  I've long thought that Crowley
has been a major influence on Lynch.

In fact the similarities between Windham Earle and Crowley are rather 
striking.



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In article <BtvGMD.H75@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu
(Scott J Gorcey) wrote:
> >      But I do think we'll see only a slight drop off of the nearly
> >      2 million the movie took in this weekend when the stats for
> >      next are released -- because it will be all of us goin back
> >      for seconds.  If the drop off is very small, based on that and
> >      that alone, NewLine would be justified in increasing distrib -
> >      probably from 700 to 1200 venues.  (But the truly rotten reviews -
> >      and Lynch's reputation as a cult filmmaker - don't make that sound
> >      incredibly promising)...

Yup. The key here is what they call 'legs'. Some movies with good word of
mouth  maintain or even (rarely) grow. Others make a big splash the first
week but quickly loose steam. Saw a graph somewhere recently compared
"Thelma and Louise" with some other films whose names escape me. T&L kept
pulling them in at a decent rate for months while some films with much
bigger openings fell off the cliff.

Based on what we've seen here, it could go either way. Encourage all your
friends to go. Go several times (I'm going back for my third later this
week). I actually liked it more the second time.

-Rich Haller

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In <1992Sep1.220922.14539@math.utexas.edu> akessler@bernard.ma.utexas.edu (Adam Kessler) writes:

> >I need help on the "Let's Rock" on the windshield. Where did that reference
> >come from?

that's the first thing the dwarf says to cooper in the dream
sequence in episode 1002.

sj"Your prejudice won't keep you warm tonight" - m

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In article <1992Sep1.000831.7920@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, jjc4@po.CWRU.Edu (James J. Campanella) writes:

> > Okay, I got the distinct impression that the inhabitants of the Black 
> > Lodge "eat" pain and suffering (Garbonsiviaum, not even close, sorry).
> > Further, I got the impression that Bob is almost a butcher for the group.
> > That he must kill whoever wears that dreaded green ring. Near the end
> > of the movie, the dwarf and one-armed man asked for their share of the pain and 
> > suffering...
> > 2.) Do they *need* to cosume the pain and suffering
> > or do they do it for some other reason?
> > 3.) When the one-armed man saw the light and became
> > "good", he must have stopped consuming pain...

What was the line MIKE spouted about -- "Appetite... fulfillment... a
golden ring of (something).."?
-- cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet...

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In article <1992Sep1.220922.14539@math.utexas.edu>
akessler@bernard.ma.utexas.edu (Adam Kessler) writes:
> >I need help on the "Let's Rock" on the windshield. Where did that reference
> >come from?
> >
Zounds!  My first post to alt.tv.tp.

The phrase in question was the first thing that we heard the LMFAP
say way back in the first appearance of the Red Room in 1002 or
1003.  Do i know what it means in this context?  No.
-------------------
Matt Maxwell
mmaxwell@ucsd.edu

"He took personality tests
 and stapled them to his lower lip" -- Stan Ridgway

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In article <BtwIoK.96n@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v113np2v@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu
(George D Emmons) wrote:
> > 
> > In article <EecqE0C00UhWI1JAQZ@andrew.cmu.edu>, km46+@andrew.cmu.edu (Ken Miller) writes...
>> > > 
>> > >   In the credits, Jurgen Prochnow is listed as Woodsman.  I remember
> > >from the series that the Log Lady said, "My husband was a logging man;
>> > >he met the devil."
>> > >What does everybody think about Jurgen being the Log Lady's husband?
>> > > 
>> > > 
> > I posted this on Saturday. I agree wholeheartedly. New thought: 
> > Prochnow's woodsman doesn't say anything that we can hear; 
> > perhaps he never did, and only a select few (Margaret, for example)
> > can hear him.
> >          Oh, well...just a thought...
> >                                  George...

Very interesting point.  The communication channel is the log.  Can't think
of any other reason to have a woodsman/logger. That's got to be it.

This makes me think of Josie being trapped in the wooden drawer knob, but
only because wood and spirits are involved.

-Rich Haller

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In article <goldberg.715355422@vincent1.iastate.edu>, goldberg@iastate.edu
(Adam Goldberg) wrote:

> > Now ...  Here's the big one...
> > I think Bob, Mike's familiar (owl) turned on Mike.  This is when Mike
> > realized the errors of his ways and cut off his arm (LMFAP).  He physically
> > cut off his arm as a symbol of his turning, so he could be sure that he
> > would never revert back to his old ways.  See, LMFAP seems to posess ARMS.
> > The arm goes dead, remember?  
> > So, LMFAP can no longer control any of Mike's actions, Mike has no arm LMFAP
> > can posess.  LMFAP need not posess Bob's arm, Bob already does dirty work
> > for him.  LMFAP is the one with the addiction.
> > 
> > I think I got that last one across.
> > I don't know whether the LMFAP PHYSICALLY posesses the arm of his minions
> > to insure their obedience, but this could be true as well.
> > 
> > Any responses desperately welcomed.
> > 

I think you're right on the money with the arm, Adam. What's more, this,
along with the creamed corn analysis as cocaine, suggests the arm of the
addict, heroin addict usually.  Addicts who aren't independently wealthy
are forced to do awful things to feed their habit.  John Prine has a
wonderful song about a Viet Vet:
"there's a hole in daddy's arm where all the money goes".

I believe the arm is definitely symbolic of addiction.

Interesting enough, the opiates, do temporarily banish pain and sorrow...

-Rich Haller

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George Noel <georgen@pooky.cs.mun.ca> writes:
> >    Also, what is the significange of the ring? Theresa had it, she died,
> >    the one armed man had it, he had his arm removed, the little man had
> >    it, he said he was the arm, Laura had it, she got killed AND wasn't
> >    the ring given to Cooper in a dream in the series and later taken
> >    from him by The Giant? Cooper later gets trapped in the Black Lodge
> >    and is possed by Bob so this ring seems to have trouble surrounding it.

The ring that Cooper had was not the same ring as the one shown in FWWM.
Cooper's ring was a plain gold band that was his mothers', according to
'My Life, My Tapes.'  The ring in FWWM has the heiroglyphic 'owl' sign
that was seen in the series in Owl Cave (on the rod that Windom turned),
but the ring itself was not seen in the series.

John Schultz (caffeine abuser)   !  ABC killed Laura Palmer
c491153@mizzou1.bitnet           !  Macintosh-free and proud of it!
c491153@mizzou1.missouri.edu     !  Subscriber to the hacker ethic

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Spoilers ahead...



















Jon Blow <blojo@xcf.berkeley.edu> writes:

> >I find it interesting that the movie answered a lot of the "little things"
> >about the series that only die-hard fans ever really wondered about anyway,
> >like:
> >
> >  * Why Donna was so entranced with wearing Laura's sunglasses.
> >  * Why Donna burst into tears when sitting at a certain booth in the
> >    Roadhouse.

Umm, would you mind sharing them with me?  ;>  I don't remember seeing
Donna wearing Laura's sunglasses in FWWM, just her jacket tied around her
waist.  As for crying in the booth, wasn't she crying in the series right
after Leland had killed Maddie (for whatever reason), not because of
Laura crying?

> >  * I was totally hit hard by the parallelism between the party in the
> >    red-colored room in Canada (where the music was loud and thus subtitles
> >    were used) and the events in the Red Room with which we are so
> >    familiar.

Me too, I had some trouble hearing due to the crappy 'sound system' at
the theater I saw it at, so I thought for the first few lines of dialogue
that the speech was the backwards Lodge speech.  Luckily, the audio
became a bit clearer so I could tell that they were not talking
backwards.

> >    Leland's "levitation trick" in the movie also seemed like some sort
> >    of formal ceremonial bow or something.  The other people in the room
> >    were looking at him in a proud/impressed manner; I get the feeling
> >    that he was taking a bow in connection with the impressive situation
> >    he had managed to create.

I don't know about this, I got the impression that BOB was the one
levitating Leland, such as to say 'Look what power I have over him.'

John Schultz (caffeine abuser)   !  ABC killed Laura Palmer
c491153@mizzou1.bitnet           !  Macintosh-free and proud of it!
c491153@mizzou1.missouri.edu     !  Subscriber to the hacker ethic

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spoilers ahead...


















Sture Jonsson <sture@lulea.trab.se> writes:
> >-- The 'person' lying in bed with Laura saying "I'm Annie, I've been with Dale
> >and Laura...." etc. wasn't Annie, it was Ronette. She looked like the actress
> >who plays Ronette (she didn't look like Heather Graham). She had the same
> >dress that Ronette had at the 'disco'. Am I right or .... ?

No, that was the real Annie, and she had the same (or very similar)
dress that she wore at the Miss Twin Peaks Festival when Windom kidnapped
her.

John Schultz (caffeine abuser)   !  ABC killed Laura Palmer
c491153@mizzou1.bitnet           !  Macintosh-free and proud of it!
c491153@mizzou1.missouri.edu     !  Subscriber to the hacker ethic

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spoilers ahead...


















Chuck Kincaid <statman@stat.ufl.edu> writes:
> >    The one thing that it was missing that no one, yet, has
> >commented about is the owls!  All through the scene with LP and Bobby in
> >the forest with the flashlight panning through the trees I expected to
> >see owls.  But not a one!  Anywhere!  This is just a minor thing (is it
> >only maybe.) but I missed them.

Yes!  I thought for sure that we would see at least one owl in that
scene, especiallt with all the gratuitous shots of the flashlight
shining around the trees.

John Schultz (caffeine abuser)   !  ABC killed Laura Palmer
c491153@mizzou1.bitnet           !  Macintosh-free and proud of it!
c491153@mizzou1.missouri.edu     !  Subscriber to the hacker ethic

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I'm not sure what other people thought, but I think that FWWM was really
unfortunate because of the lack of humor.  What made Twin Peaks so great
was that you never knew what was going to happen next.  One minute there
would be something terrifying on the screen, and the next moment you would
be rolling on the ground.  The movie only had the terror, and none of
the zaniness.  I personally think that that was a serious omission on
Lynch's part...

----------------------------------------------------------------------- 
|  Christopher L. Barnard                   cbarnard@cs.uoregon.edu   |
|    Dept. of Computer & Information Science, University of Oregon    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
   When I was a boy, I was told that anybody could become President.
   Now I'm starting to believe it.               -- Clarence Darrow


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In article <2AA2A53D.19108@ics.uci.edu>, bvickers@valentine.ics.uci.edu (Brett J. Vickers) writes:
>> > >Or could it be connected to the shaking hands in #2018?  Or BOB's
>> > >arm reaching out into Glastonberry Grove later that same episode?
> > 
> > I didn't think about the shaking hand connection.  Does anyone
> > remember which hand shook?  Seems like a plausible connection.

Dale's left hand, the pie-eating lady's right hand, Pete's right hand,
BOB's right hand.
-- cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet...

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Okay it was stated that it appears that the missing scenses
will be tacked on to the Laserdisk version of FWWM, now what
about the video release?  Does that mean that the video version
will not contain the the cut parts? Darn, does that mean that
poor saps such as I, who Laserdisk equipment will never see
it all? 

Sally--Can someone confirm that Austin Lynch did not play the kid;
and if it was not him who did play him?--A. Wilson


-- And I'll see you//And you'll see me || Sally A. Wilson And I'll see you in the branches that blow || Spud Peel In the breeze,//I'll see you in the trees || sally@mica.berkeley.edu Under the sycamore trees (_Sycamore_Trees_ Lynch/Badalamenti)

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Fire, walk with me.........well, I'm about as sure of what's
going on, as far as the big picture goes, as I am of our purpose in life.
Lot's of fun stuff, so here are my thoughts.

As someone mentioned, the movie, if you ignore the first half and
all of the FBI scenes, could be a terrifying tale of a young woman gone over
the edge. Look at it this way: Laura Palmer, miss young white america, has
been raped repeatedly and otherwise mentally tortured by her father for at 
least six or seven years. It all seemed to start when she was twelve, the very
beginning of her adolescence (sic). She can't handle this betrayal, she snaps
and creates BOB. Daddy didn't do it, BOB did. Whenever daddy gets mean, she
doesn't see Leland. She sees BOB.
For a while, this works well enough. BOB tortures her, but Daddy is
nice enough, so she goes on with her life, enduring the pain and constructing
a very complicated delusion involving BOB and the lodges to justify her
having to go on with it. To cope, she does what a hell of a lot of kids
do, she gets into sex, drugs, and rock n roll. Numb, comfortably.
Leland, sicko that he secretly is, has been whoring around with other
young girls, and almost gets caught when Laura is one of the girls he's suppose
to party with. Theresa figures this out and tries to blackmail him, so he
kills her. Bam, first murder. But now he'd unsure whether Laura knew or not,
so he gets careful and at the same time increases his abuse, and this starts
to become too much for her, and her illusion starts to fray as her survival
instinct tries to show her the truth. Finally, she does figure it all out, and
so Leland kills her to save himself.

Great, a neat little theory. Too bad it's all a crock, since we
DO have the reality of the lodges. That messes things up. Oh well.

OTHER THOUGHTS:

Blue Rose: Well, let's say Gordon does know about the lodges.
He is older than any of the other FBI guys, right?
(Seems that way, at least) So, let's say Gordon
knows about the lodges and maybe BOB and buddies
living in the red room. So, he starts to hand
pick like0-minded men and women from the academy,
because to reveal such knowledge would bring
scorn and backlash. So, they handle normal cases
in unusual ways, and keep an eye on the lodge movements
through the blue rose cases: thus the need for such odd
codes. They can't let anyone not initiated know
what they're doing, or their own department will come
down on them.

Jeffries:Bizzare. Assuming my first thought on the rose is
true, he may not be directly connected to the Palmer/
Peaks case. Just generally connected to the Lodges,
which, being one of Gordon's men, he was probably
investigating. I wish I knew exactly what he
said.

Well, be seeing you!
:x

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Am I the only one who believes that the lack of humor during the
TP segment of the film worked. I thought that since the theme
was more or less "Laura Palmer's decent into hell" that humor did
not fit. I think that the intense darkness, the somberness of that
portion of the flick was most fitting. I think if we did see bits
of Andy/Lucy, Pete, etc. it would have taken away with the nightmarish
narture of the film. I was drawn in by the intense nightmarishness of
the whole thing. It was non-stop, heavy, and I felt that I was 
experiencing all the hell that Laura went through. If there had been
the cutesy stuff I feel that it would have broken the spell. I
for one was captivated by the horror. And there still was elements
of humor, the whole first part was damn funny, and really work to
get me off guard for the TP section of the movie, and thus, at least
for me made the TP part even more intense.

Sally--Flame away--A. Wilson


-- And I'll see you//And you'll see me || Sally A. Wilson And I'll see you in the branches that blow || Spud Peel In the breeze,//I'll see you in the trees || sally@mica.berkeley.edu Under the sycamore trees (_Sycamore_Trees_ Lynch/Badalamenti)

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In article <goldberg.715355422@vincent1.iastate.edu> goldberg@iastate.edu (Adam Goldberg) writes:

   Ok people, I have been reading this group for 6 months, I went back and watched
   all the episodes again, and saw the movie.  [I have a life?] and here are
   my thoughts:

   I whole heartedly agree with the addiction theme, remember that the old lady
   said to Donna, "I don't eat creamed corn".  probably a reference to the fact
   that she did not partake in the substance.

No, she says: ``Do you see creamed corn on this plate?  I ordered no
creamed corn.''  This leaves open whether she ever partakes of creamed
corn.  By the way, can anybody make out exactly who is eating the
creamed corn at the end there?  The close up was so tight, I couldn't
tell.

   The white horse means someone is drugged, not death.

It could also mean that Leland is going into his BoB phase, since both
times we saw it: (1) Leland had drugged Sarah; (2) so he could become
BoB and abuse/attack Laura/Maddy.

   Now ...  Here's the big one...
   I think Bob, Mike's familiar (owl) turned on Mike.  This is when Mike
   realized the errors of his ways and cut off his arm (LMFAP).  He physically
   cut off his arm as a symbol of his turning, so he could be sure that he
   would never revert back to his old ways.  See, LMFAP seems to posess ARMS.
   The arm goes dead, remember?  

More importantly, at least in the case of Teresa Banks, it's the LEFT
arm, which is the one Mike is missing, which would be the arm that the
LMFAP is.  (Remember, he stands where Mike's left arm would be when
they are together in the Waiting Room/BlWhiteack Lodge.  (I don't
remember if the arms that trembled in the series were left or right
arms, though.)

-30-
Bob

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In article <KWH.92Sep1121515@GLOBE.EDRC.CMU.EDU> kwh@CS.CMU.EDU (Kevin Hartmann) writes:

   I remember an angel helping someone in FWWM also.  But I can't remember the
   situation.  Does anyone else?

An angel appears to Ronette and apparently cuts her bonds.  And
Catherine claimed that an angel appeared to her after the mill fire
(in the series).

-30-
Bob

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In article <rhaller-010992131736@rhaller.cc.uoregon.edu> rhaller@oregon.uoregon.edu (Rich Haller) writes:
   In article <1992Aug29.083023.669@cs.mun.ca>, georgen@pooky.cs.mun.ca
   (George Noel) wrote:

   >      The picture of the room with the door opened that was given to
   >      Laura, was that the room "above the convenience store"?

   Nope. That room is shown in the vision sequence during Bowies part.

Are you sure they're not the same?  I got the impression that the room
in the Agent Jeffries section and the room in the picture were the
same (i.e. the room above the convenience store).  Of course, I could
be wrong.  (The major thing wrong with TP:FWWM is that you can't go
back and replay it to figure out questions like this.)

-30-
Bob

``This is garmonbozia.''

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In article <1992Sep1.220922.14539@math.utexas.edu> akessler@bernard.ma.utexas.edu (Adam Kessler) writes:

   I need help on the "Let's Rock" on the windshield. Where did that reference
   come from?

Unless my memory is going, that's the first thing the LMFAP says to
Cooper in the dream sequence, after he finishes rubbing his hands.

-30-
Bob

``I am the arm.''

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In article <9209012350.AA03434@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> C491153@MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU (John Schultz) writes:
   Jon Blow <blojo@xcf.berkeley.edu> writes:

   Spoilers ahead...

   >    Leland's "levitation trick" in the movie also seemed like some sort
   >    of formal ceremonial bow or something.  The other people in the room
   >    were looking at him in a proud/impressed manner; I get the feeling
   >    that he was taking a bow in connection with the impressive situation
   >    he had managed to create.

   I don't know about this, I got the impression that BOB was the one
   levitating Leland, such as to say 'Look what power I have over him.'

I don't think it was that so much as an inhabiting spirit's version of
running a car up on the rack to service it.  Bob wanted to heal
Leland's wound, so he levitated him to where he could do it.

-30-
Bob

``Cable bends steel''

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In article <1992Sep1.192900.7259@ac.dal.ca> 01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:

   I was jjst thinking... not only did Aleister Crowley write "moonchild", 
   he also designed a set of Tarot cards. Does anyone out there have this set?

Yes.  You should be able to pick up a copy in any New Age/Occult
store.  There's also a whole book by Crowley explaining the Tarot,
using his version as the Tarot to be deciphered.  This is a fairly
full book called something like _The Tarot of Thoth_ or some such.
There is also a smaller pamphlet that is about the Tarot in general,
not Crowley's own brand.

   How is it different from, say, the Rider tarot cards?

It's the same suits and all, but Crowley uses a lot of his own
personal symbolism, developed from his days in the Golden Dawn, his
``reception'' of the Book of the Law, the development of his own
mystical organizations (the O.:T:.O and the A.:A:.), etc.

 Maybe there's a himt in 
   the cards...

Look!  It's Leland Palmer as the Hanged Man!  Cooper as the Magus!
BoB as Death!  I just got the Ace of Coffee Cups!  (My Ghod, a Twin
Peaks Tarot set?!?)

-30-
Bob

``We place no reliance
  On virgin or pigeon.
  Our method is science.
  Our aim is religion.''

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01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:

> >Nuff said
> >Mike (under the sycamore trees...)

Not quite enuf...

Correct spelling is audrey.sait.edu.au
-- -----------------------------------+------------------------------------------- JJ Glamma | "If there ever is another war in Europe, aka James William Patrick Bennetts | it will start with some damn fool thing jamesbs@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU | in the Balkans." I LIKED HIGHLANDER 2, OK?! | -- Otto Von Bismark -----------------------------------+-------------------------------------------

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In article <la87c1INNq99@news.bbn.com>, ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria) writes:

> >    The white horse means someone is drugged, not death.
> > 
> > It could also mean that Leland is going into his BoB phase...

But Frost (wasn't it?) stated in a radio or TV interview that the
white horse was a pooka, and signified death.
-- cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet...

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jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog here...) writes:

> > Just a screw-up between TP: FWWM and episode #2009 of the regular series.
> > 
> > As you of course all recall, in #2009 Donna and Cooper go to the late
> > Harold Smith's place (and the "Tremonds"' place too) and get the last
> > page of Laura's diary.  "Thursday, February 22nd.  Tonight is the night
> > that I die..." et cetera.
> > 
> > Now, these pages were never referred to in the movie.  Nor was the dream
> > that Laura said she had in them the night before her murder: the dream
> > where she told Cooper who BOB was.
> > 
> > Now, I can understand the omissions, after all the movie was hugely long
> > anyways.  But...
> > 
> > Laura gives her diary to Harold at the BEGINNING of the movie.  If she
> > didn't have the book, how did those pages get into it?
> > 
> > Now, bearing in mind that Episode #2009 was one big kludge anyway, I'm
> > looking for some way of explaining this that actually makes it all make
> > SENSE.

It is possible that she went over to Harold's and wrote the entry. In 
reality it is probably just continuity error.

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Now I might be completely stupid, but I thought the levitation of Leland,
was not Leland per say, but his spirit soul. I thought that while the
"spirit" BOB inhabitated Leland that he place Leland's spiritual presence
elsewheres, ie the Black Lodge. Therefore, Leland's spirit, soul, is
hanging suspended in the Lodge.  Hawk stated in the first season that
there are two souls, one that stays with the body, and one that wanders,
so one of these souls of Leland could be take out and placed in the Lodge
as BOB takes over.  It also seems to me that it is Leland's pain/suffering
which is being eaten, and I thought it was BOB who was doing the eating.
So not only does he feed on the fear, horror of his murder of Laura, but
he also feeds on the pain/suffering of the hanging soul of Leland. Maybe
that is how it comes about that Leland never remembers, since BOB eats
on the fear, pain that the suspended soul feels.

Sally--
-- And I'll see you//And you'll see me || Sally A. Wilson And I'll see you in the branches that blow || Spud Peel In the breeze,//I'll see you in the trees || sally@mica.berkeley.edu Under the sycamore trees (_Sycamore_Trees_ Lynch/Badalamenti)

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ian@gomez.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (H. Ian Novack) writes:

> > Well, Heather Graham's name was in the opening credits, and, call me crazy, I
> > thought it looked like her, at least the her in the scene in the TV finale
> > where it was Caroline in Annie's body in the Lodge.  I belive that Annie's
> > voice was in "Lodgespeak".

Annie's voice was not reversed. Rather, it seemed >overly< clear, as if badly
dubbed in. Might it have been in Lodgspeak at first, then redubbed?


--
"Go to an extreme and then retreat to a more useful position"  --  Brian Eno
Joe Zitt        ...cs.utexas.edu!kvue!zitt!joe         (512)450-1916

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Herewith aspects of _Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me_ that I found
interesting, at any rate.  (Not all of these are new at this point.)

Lil and the dancing code: interestingly enough, this suggests that the
``Mexican chihuahua'' reference when Cole meets up with Cooper in the
series might be more than just Gordon's odd way of speaking but could
be part of Gordon's code, which all of his agents seem to know.  (I
wouldn't go out on a limb with this one, though.)

Agent Sam Stanley: Remember the following from the pilot: ``Diane,
give this to Albert and his team.  Don't go to Sam.  Albert seems to
have a little more on the ball.''  It looks like we now know who Sam
is.

Irene from Hap's: ``You wanna hear about our specials?  We don't have
any.''

Irene on Theresa Banks' arm going numb: ``You know, I never told
anybody, but once for about three days, just before her time, Teresa's
arm went completely dead...Her left arm.  It was numb.  She said she
couldn't use it.  Said it had no feeling.''  This has been commented
on, but not the timing ``just before her time''.  I assume this means
Theresa's period, which suggests an interesting synchronization with
matters Lodge-istical.

Donna to Laura: ``James is the one.''  (i.e. the one who would love
Laura unselfishly and unstintingly) Compare James' comment about Laura
to Big Ed in the pilot: ``She was the one.''

Bobby's code to Leo for drug deals: ``The football is empty.''  This
adds more resonance to the meeting in the woods between Bobby, Mike,
and Leo and the empty football that winds up on their car.

Just before Laura and Donna go to the Canadian swinger's resort:
Donna: ``Where are you going?''
Laura: ``Nowhere, fast.  And you're not coming.''

Laura to Donna after she puts on Laura's jacket and starts acting
decidedly unDonna-like: ``Don't ever wear my stuff.''  (because it
makes the wearer like Laura.)  This means Donna's request for Laura's
sunglasses was more than just a request for a keepsake of her friend,
but a conscious decision to make herself like Laura once again; i.e.
to open herself to the spirit of Laura in her possessions (to be
possessed by Laura, in effect).

Garmonbozia: ever since bits of the screenplay started circulating,
there's been a question about whether ``Garmonbozia'' means ``corn''
or ``pain and sorrow''.  As has become clear, it means both: i.e. pain
and sorrow (particularly the pain and sorrow caused by BoB and his
ilk) consumed in the form of corn.  Specifically creamed corn (at
least, when the LMFAP pointed to the pan and said ``This is
garmonbozia'', the pan was full of creamed corn).  This, of course,
ties back to the creamed corn byplay with the Tremonds (whom, we now
learn, are really the Chalfonts).

The ring with the green stone that kept popping up, engraved with the
same petroglyph from the series (the one Earle referred to as ``The
symbol, inverted!''), suggesting a tie in there.  And, by the way,
doesn't that petroglyph picture a bird?  Possibly an owl?  Are all the
wearers of the ring owls?  (And, hence, not what they seem.)

A more substantive comment: lots of people, both pro and con TP:FWWM,
have said that it just shows us events we already know about, and
doesn't give us any new information.  I think there is at least one
area in which this is quite wrong, namely, in the case of Mike, the
One-Armed Man.  Remember that he presented himself as an inhabiting
spirit who had once hunted with BoB but, after having seen the face of
God, cut off the arm which had been touched by the Evil One, and now
sought only to stop BoB.  But, his actions in TP:FWWM are quite
inconsistent with this.  Note that he is one-armed in the movie, so
his actions should be after he has been ``saved''; I don't think they
can be explained as what he was like before he saw the face of God.
First, when Laura is being killed, he seems anxious to be there, but
not to stop BoB.  Note that after he gets to the train car and is sure
that Laura is being killed, he makes no further effort to get inside.
As if his purpose were not to prevent the murder, but to make sure
that he doesn't miss out on the fun.  I think this is confirmed by the
activities in the Red Room in which Mike and the LMFAP (presumably
Mike's arm) stand up in unison and recite, in unison (presumably
together they constitute one whole entity of some sort) a demand for
garmonbozia from BoB.  BoB then extracts blood from Leland's wound and
tosses it to the floor.  It disappears and then we see a tight close
up of someone's face sucking corn off a spoon: presumably the
suffering transformed into edible form.

All of this suggests that the falling out between Mike and BoB was not
because Mike had renounced his evil ways, but because BoB was welshing
on Mike.  So, all of Mike's efforts to find BoB were really just so he
could be in on the action.  Note that the idea that Mike is still part
of the killing team explains something I had always found quite
disturbing in the series: when Mike tells Cooper about the ``golden
circle'' of appetite and fulfillment and speaks of BoB's ``pleasures''
he runs his tongue across his lower lip as if anticipating them.  This
is pretty inconsistent with Mike having given up those pleasures but
is a reasonable slip if he were actually colluding with BoB to set
Cooper up.  (Also, given that the ``pleasures'' seem to be consumed
orally, it makes perfect sense that he would ``lick his lips'' when
contemplating them.)  This raises a larger question: how many, if any,
of the supernatural characters in Twin Peaks were really helping
Cooper and others, and how many were just going around using mortals
to satisfy their own plans and desires?  The LMFAP referred to himself
as ``the [i.e. Mike's] arm'' and behaved as such, making him suspect.
(This also suggests that his ``Wow, Bob, wow'' in the series
conclusion was sincere admiration for Bob.)  It looked like at least
the elder Chalfont might have been among the consumers of garmonbozia
at the end (I couldn't make out who he/she/it/they were) and of course
both of the Chalfonts were present at ``one of their meetings'', as
Agent Jefferies called it, in the room above the convenience store.
This raises questions about what their intentions are.  Even the
giant, for all that he sounede the alarm when evil was happening was
pretty useless in actually preventing it (What's the matter, is he
bound by the Prime Directive or something?), which makes him
questionable.

By the end of the TV series, I had become convinced that the murder of
Laura Palmer really served as a ruse to lure Cooper in, and that
Cooper was the target of BoB and his cohorts all along (part of this
came from reading Cooper's diary, but there was support for this in
the series, as well).  In fact, I think that Jean Renault's comments
about Twin Peaks being a dream that turned into a nightmare with
Cooper's arrival was probably on the mark, since the inhabitants of
the Black Lodge would do anything to further their plan of getting
Cooper.  FWWM's clear (at least to me) revelation that Mike was lying
when he said that he had renounced his killing ways, and that various
of the other supernatural entities hanging around Twin Peaks are also
of at least questionable trustworthiness confirms this.  (Methinks I
may be opening the floodgates with this one.)

The final scene: I wonder if Cooper wasn't helping Laura to accept
death the same way he used the Bardo from the Tibetan Book of the Dead
to help Leland.  Helping Laura into the light.  Remember that Leland
saw Laura in the light when he died.  I also wonder if this encounter
between Cooper and Laura wasn't the meeting in ``25 years'' that Laura
mentioned in the series finale.  If time in the Lodges goes backwards
(or, at least, over, under, sideways, down), than this earlier
encounter in terrestrial chronology might easily be later by Lodge
chronology.  Certainly the presence of Annie in Laura's bed tends to
suggest this is a possibility.

Some overall comments:

(1) I liked this movie very much, more so than I expected to.  It
added a lot of emotional overtones to events in the series and wasn't
just a literal-minded acting out of events we'd already heard
described (at least in my judgment).

(2) I really want to see Lynch do more in the Twin Peaks universe.  He
seems to be working out his own mythology, with the petroglyphs,
lodges, owls, white horse, even creamed corn.  Or, if not a mythology,
at least symbology.  At one and the same time, this is one of the
aspects of the movie and the whole Twin Peaks universe that I like the
most but which I also find the most frustrating.  I like Lynch's
ability to create or appropriate symbols that he can imbue with all
sorts of emotional resonance.  On the other hand, as Lynch himself has
said, he's primarily a visual creator, so there often isn't much
intellectual content to the symbols.  If Lynch could come up with a
grand inter-connected mythology with resonant symbols and a consistent
intellectual base, it would be wonderful.  But that's not the kind of
creator Lynch is, so I'll have to content myself with the images,
often with nothing behind them.

(3) One theme that seemed to run through the whole movie was that of
code.  Gordon Cole's code (including the tantalizing Blue Rose), the
code Bobby, Leo, and Jacques used to arrange drug deals, the (so far
unbroken) code of the green ring, the full import of garmonbozia, the
secret identities adopted in the pink room, the ``meaning'' of the
ceiling fan, etc.  But the overt codes are only one extreme on a
continuum that includes all sorts of miscommunication.  For example,
when the younger Chalfont tells Laura that BoB is poking around for
her diary, he did it in such a round-about way (``The man behind the
mask is looking for the book with the pages torn out.  He is
approaching the hiding place.  He is under the fan now.'') that I
didn't realize that his words had a quite straightforward meaning.
And there was the miscommunication between Laura and those who loved
her: James, Bobby, and Donna; all of this was in plain, ``ordinary''
English, but somehow the meaning would get lost, as if it were in a
code that the other person didn't understand.  In that kind of a
world, well-formulated codes at least have the advantage that those
who know the code can be sure of what they're saying.

-30-
Bob

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   There were just a few more things I wanted to ask and point out
from the original series (I haven't seen the movie yet though.)

Why did Hank always carry around a domino with 3/3 dots on it??
He sent a picture of it to Josie and said 'Get my message??'

I noticed in your notes that you all keep referring to 'black dog'
from the movie.  There are black dogs in the original series.
In episode 1 when josie is sitting by the mirror the 1st scene that
you see is a statue of 2 black dogs.  Later on, at the episode where
Andrew packard comes into the room and hands Josie a drink- Josie is
again by the mirror, but the black dog statue has changed.  One of
the dogs is now in a howling position instead of lying down.  

I noticed that the 'puddle portal' occurs twice in twin peaks.  At
the episode where bob says "I'm out", and at the episode where Maddy
is killed.  The puddle is outside the roadhouse (a close-up of the
'bang-bang' sign is shown reflected in the puddle)

I will probably have other questions after I go watch the movie.


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In article <1992Sep1.193314.19510@Cadence.COM> phz@cadence.com (Pete Zakel) writes:
> >In article <1992Aug26.060429.28986@cs.mun.ca> georgen@pooky.cs.mun.ca (George Noel) writes:
>> >>      are "One in the same" and I assumed the Giant has been like the "keeper"
> >                ^^
> >and

This was subtitled as it was that backwards-speak.

>> >>   One chance out between two worlds,
> >               ^^^^^^
> >       chants

My script for 1002 says "chance"

ed


-- /\__Edwin Nomura -- enomura@ucsd.edu__________.:___________.____________/\ / \\ .:. . : . : / \\ / \\\ : .:: : : Fire walk with me :.. : . : / \\\ / \\\\..::..:::.:::::.:.:.....:::::...::..:...:::::.:.:::::.:....::.../ \\\\

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> >
> >I just thought of something.  If MIKE was trying to tell LP over the
> >sound of the engine "It's your father," then how come he didn't go after Leland
> >in the TV show?  He could have thought that BOB switched hosts, but he never
> >even went after Leland.
> >
 Maybe at the end of the movie where we see Bob seperate from Leland, Bob
 stayed in the Black Lodge and let Leland or Leland's Doppleganger go out
 into the real world. This would explain why Mike never sensed anything
 about Leland thus not going after him for most of the series. Then after
 the point in the series where Leland's hair turns white overnight (if anyone
 saw the movie Excorsist.. I think it is mentioned in Excorsist III also how
 Fathering Morning's hair turned white overnight also after doing an excorsism)
 Bob entered him again in order to kill Maddy and thus why Mike fell to the
 ground when he saw Leland afterwards in the series in the Great Northern. BTW
 did we see the One Armed Man after that? Did he die in the series at that
 point?
  
  -=*George*=-



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> >First, what does everyone make of the pile of dirt with the ring under the
> >trailer?  A sacrifice?  An attempt to return the ring to the Lodges?

 My question is, who placed the ring there? My guess is that the One Armed
 Man lived in that trailer.. he was doing so to live by Theresa Banks to
 warn her about Bob/Leland or waiting for Bob to come to her. The reason
 why I say the One Armed Man lived there was because of the "Lets Rock" on
 the car windshield Cooper saw . The LMFAP says "Lets Rock!" and my guess is
 that "Lets Rock!" was what was on the tatoo that the OAM had on the arm that
 he removed after seeing the face of God.
  
   When Chet Desmond found the ring, I assume it brought him to the waiting
   room or The Black Lodge where the OAM took it back.

   The OAM throws the ring into Laura in the traincar at the end, so assuming
   the ring took Desmond to the waiting room, the ring also brought Laura to
   the waiting room thus Bob couldn't use her as his host.
    
     Also, in the series, we see Laura's half of the locket lying on a mound
     of dirt like the ring was.. didn't the OAM leave the train car after (or
     was it before?) Leland left with Laura's body? If he left afterwards,
     I'd say it was him that left the locket in the mound of dirt, along with
     the paper with blood on it saying "Fire, walk with me" as a clue for
     Cooper, like the ring was a lure for Desmond.




> >Second, I found that having had the soundtrack for a week (and listening to
> >it several times), that I was able to piece it into the movie, such as 'Girl
> >Talk' and 'The Voice of Love.'  However, I'm *still* trying to figure out
> >'Black Dog Runs at Night.'  I was just looking at the liner notes to the

 The Black Dog Runs At Night is played when Mrs. Tremond's grandson is dancing
 around in a circle in front of the R&R Diner. A Black Dog usually represents
 an evil spirit or the devil and it running at night means when it comes out.
 I think this represents Bob as Laura says Bob comes to her at night.

-=*George*=-
> >
> >
> >



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Aha! Some things are starting to make sense here..
> >
> >
> >Kay Carter <carterk@cgsvax.claremont> writes:
>> >>    2.  If "The Man Behind the Mask" is Bob behind the mask of the
>> >>posess), What exactly is the meaning of the paper mache mask?
> >
> >When the younger Tremond (or whatever his name really is) said that line
> >*with* the mask on, did anyone else get the feeling that somehow Bob and
> >him were related?

 Ok, young boy (grandson).. remember in the series Leland told Cooper that
 this family lived at a certain address, and that Bob was one that lived
 there and that he used to torment him, flick matches at him and say something
 to the effect of "Want to play with fire, little boy?" or "Fire, walk with
 me". Maybe the grandson represents Bob when he was alive (and young)?


>> >>    3.  Who is the Shaman from the David Bowie scence? (I liked him)
> >
> >I'm not sure who you are talking about, since there were two (?) new
> >characters in that scene, one fellow with the white face and long nose
> >(similar to the mask) and another guy who just sat and laughed I believe
> >I have no idea who either of them are, though.
> >
 One of the new characters (man with beard raising his arm) I *think* could
 be the spirit "Mike". The guy dancing around in the white mask *could* be
 someone we haven't fully seen before. Ie: "The Magician".


>> >>        5.  Did Laura Palmer get to the White Lodge at the end? (I think so,
>> >>the angel may have been from more of the traditional heaven, but I think that
>> >>the White Lodge is what you make it.  Anyhow, I was glad it all seemed to work
>> >>out for her, well, except for being dead and all.)

 Yes, Laura was about to enter, or IN The White Lodge at the end.. it was
 supposed to be a happy ending. A note from the soundtrack, the song that is
 played at the end is called "The Voice of Love" and we all know Love is
 what opens the door to the White Lodge. Another comment, in Laura's dream
 where Annie says she has been with Cooper and Laura in the Lodge and says
 that the good Cooper is stuck in "The Lodge" (doesn't specify which one) and
 cannot leave, does that mean the good Laura is also stuck in the lodge with
 the possibility of leaving? (Like in Cooper's dream.. I'll see you again in
 25 years).

> >I'm not really sure of the significance of the angel, but I thought it
> >related back to her line earlier in the movie about all the angels
> >leaving and not being able to help you.
> >
 The line that was quoted earlier about falling and falling faster in
 space until you burst into flames.. can you remember from the series where
 they show an Owl in space, a robed figure and then it bursts into flames?
 This robed figure, could he be the person dancing around in the Bowie seen
 who is The Magician?
  
  -=*George*=-



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In <29AUG92.01294495@vax.clarku.edu> htilney@vax.clarku.edu writes:

> >My understanding is that MIKE is some kind of spirit and BOB is his
> >familiar. MIKE feeds on pain and sorrow, and BOB (who goes out and 
> >does the dirty work) feeds on fear and brings back subjects and their
> >misery for MIKE. Alot of this is implied, so correct me if I'm wrong.

I think that Mike, as with all characters (save one), there is a good
incarnation and an evil one.  The evil doppleganger collects the
garmonbozia.

> >My question is, why did MIKE warn Laura about her father in the traffic
> >scene in the movie? I thought that MIKE wasn't "purified" until after 
> >Laura's death. And after Laura's murder we see him retrieving "pain and
> >sorrow" from BOB in the Black Lodge.

The Mike at the traffic scene was the good Mike.  In the series, Mike
talks about cutting off his own arm to keep Bob out.  Notice how there
is a common thread about the left arm.  Anyway, in cutting off the left
arm, Mike has permanently anchored his good doppleganger in the TP world.

-- del AKA Erik Lindberg uunet!pilchuck!fnx!del Who is John Galt?

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In <6239@vtserf.cc.vt.edu> benjy@benjy.cc.vt.edu (Ben E. Cline) writes:

> >It's odd that I found parts of the TV show scarier than movie.  For example,
> >the railroad car scene in the movie was intense, but not scary.  The railroad
> >car scene in the TV show was really chilly.  I'm not sure why exactly.

That's because the movie as we saw it was heavily edited due to audience
reactions at trial screenings.  Personally, I'd really like to see the
uncut version.

-- del AKA Erik Lindberg uunet!pilchuck!fnx!del Who is John Galt?

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 How is the stoplight "explained"? I found that confusing as where the
 stoplight was located, there was no intersection, just a turn in the road.

> >
> >
> >What is the symbolism of the White Horse that Mrs. Palmer sees in her visions?

 The only other time we see Sarah seeing the white horse was when Maddy
 was killed and Leland gave her the same type of drink (milk..warm milk?). If
 you noticed, it left a residue in the glass.. Leland drugged Sarah so she
 wouldn't know that he left the house (to kill Laura). He drugged Sarah in
 the series so she wouldn't know he killed Maddy. The White Horse represents
 the drug that he gave her I guess (a vision because of the drug).

> >
> >Who is the character David Bowie plays supposed to be?

 Bowie's character was "Phillip Jeffries" - only newly introduced. From the
 movie they say he has been missing for some time so I assume something
 similar happened to him like Cooper at the end of the second season where
 he gets trapped in the Lodge.
> >
> >Was the Chris Isaack (first FBI agent) character mentioned in the TV series?

 Chris Iassak's character wasn't mentioned before in the series either, he
 is new BUT Kiefer Sutherland's character Sam Stanley WAS mentioned in
 the pilot episode where Cooper recommends to Diane that Albert be assigned
 to the case instead of Sam.. says Albert is more reliable or something.>
> >Is the Number 6 on the pole next to the "mystery trailer" supposed to mean
> >something? (Lynch shows it several times)

 6? There were 6 people in The Red Room (above the convenience store)
> >What is the significance of the ring that Teresa Banks/Laura Palmer wears? 
> >Does this show up in the TV series anywhere? 

 The bearer of the ring sort of sells their soul thus why the LMFAP says
 "With this ring, I thee wed".


-=*George*=-
> >
> >
> >



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In article <17ot54INNkro@agate.berkeley.edu> sally@anableps.berkeley.edu (S. A. Wilson) writes:
> >And I'll see you//And you'll see me          ||    Sally  A.  Wilson
> >And I'll see you in the branches that blow   ||    Spud   Peel
> >In the breeze,//I'll see you in the trees    ||    sally@mica.berkeley.edu
> >Under the sycamore trees       (_Sycamore_Trees_  Lynch/Badalamenti)

I saw the movie twice, and tried to locate all the music from the soundtrack,
but I can't remember hearing Sycamore Trees in the movie.  Where was it?

-- Joe Smith (408)922-6220 BTNA GNS Major Programs, TYMNET Global Network <jms@tardis.tymnet.com> P.O. Box 49019, MS-C51, San Jose, CA 95161-9019 CA license plate: "POPJ P," Married to the LB, Quantum Leap's #1 net.fan PDP-10, 36-bits forever! Humorous disclaimer: "My Amiga 3000 speaks for me."

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     I was putting "Rockin Back Inside My Heart" and "The World
     Spins" on a tape for a friend back home and I started 
     thinking about an explanation for Julee and the band's
     disappearance in the "Find out who did it" episode second
     season.  
     At first I was thinking that The Giant was possessing Julee
     Cruise as well as Senor Droolcup... (I'm assuming Droolcup
     was in the lodge with The Giant in the same way Leland was
     in there with BOB in FWWM... that's no spoiler, right?)  But
     that doesn't wash because the whole band disappeared as well.

     So maybe that band - and you only saw Julee and the band in the
     Roadhouse when Lynch directed it - were part of the "owls in
     the roadhouse" the Log Lady warns of... they certainly provide
     "music in the air," the same way that guy who sings "Sycamore
     Trees" does in the final episode.  (Maybe herself and the band
     are human... and so is that black guy... with knowledge of 
     the mythology around those parts, like Harry Dean Stanton's
     character at the Trailer Park at FWWM).

     Any of this making any sense to anyone???

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> >
>> >> i can't even remember what bowie was talking about in his part. 
> >
> >"We're not going to talk about Judy.  In fact, we're not going to mention
> > her at all."

I couldn't hear what he was saying either but Judy? Hmm.. maybe Judy was
another girl who was murdered by Bob that Phillip was investigating?
> >
> >(More about this in my next post).
> >
>> >> that was philip gerard driving it, yes.  again, like with bowie's
>> >> character, i can't remember what he talked about.
> >
> >I couldn't quite make out what he said.  He talked about the room above
> >the convenience store, the formica table, and shouted "The thread will
> >be broken!!" at least twice.

 Thread.. I have heard that mentioned a few times now.. in the European
 Pilot episode where the OAM calls Cooper and says he knows about the
 red thread and letters under the nails, Gordon's "mother's sister's girl"
 had a piece of red thread missing from her dress.. is that what the OAM
 was referring to when he shouted it out while driving? Or did he mean
 that sometime the thread (loop of time) will be broken. Maybe if Laura
 never had to take the ring (Like Cooper warned her) it would have put an
 end to the loop?>

 -=*George*=-

 P.S. Sorry for all the posts in a row..

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> >
> >  The indian-mouth noise made by the Little Man we hear when Mike is
> >  driving toward Leland as well as during the focuses on the electrical
> >  pole and during one additional time, but I don't remember when.

We also hear the indian noise from Senor Droolcup in the last episode of
the second season when the LMFAP says "One and the same".
> >
> >
> >  "I'm not your Laura.  Your laura has disappeared..."

 Your Laura has disappeared? In the opening pilot episode james is explaining
 to Donna how Laura didn't seem like herself, then she was suddenly Laura
 again. There was also a scene in the movie where Laura for a second turns
 into an "evil" Laura.. could that have been her Doppleganger?
> >

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Dear fellows,

does somebody of you know if there's a soundtrack of FWWM available?

I really liked the music - especially in this canadian club...

Greetings from Germany... Matthias



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In article <H11FqB2w165w@zitt> zitt!joe@dogface.austin.tx.us (Joe Zitt) writes:
> >01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:
> >
>> >> So, I guess the Canadian tourism industry is in for a boom after
>> >> that Pink Room scene ;-)
> >
> >Come to think of it, how far from Canada is Twin Peaks supposed to be? I
> >thought it was rather far away from it, but characters seem to get to and
>from Canada rather quickly.
> >

 Twin Peaks is supposed to be really close to the Canadian border. Remember
 that One Eyed Jacks is also in Canada (from what I understood). I don't
 know about anyone else but, I am from Canada and I didn't particularly like
 the impression they were trying to paint on Canadian bars, or Canada itself.
 I mean when Laura enters "The Bar" in Canada to meet Jacques and Ronnette all

 you see is sex, drugs and rock and roll. I mean girls dirty dancing on the
 floor like they were doing, stripping down, guys licking the breasts of
 women and women being "eaten out" (Laura..under the table) and then have
 Jacques (or someone) saying "Welcome to Canada" didn't seem too pleasing. I
 for one would like to know of any bars in Canada which are like *that*. :-)

  -=*George*=-



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In article <1992Sep1.193314.19510@Cadence.COM> phz@cadence.com (Pete Zakel) writes:
> >In article <1992Aug26.060429.28986@cs.mun.ca> georgen@pooky.cs.mun.ca (George Noel) writes:

 Before the movie was released I remember seeing a post here of the entire
 script..I marked for the message for later reading but it scrolled off, and
 I never bothered reading it as I wanted to see the movie first. Now I
 want to have the script to read some parts I couldn't make out in the movie
 and to read the parts that were cut. Does anyone have a copy of the post
 made here they could re-post? I saw the ad for where you could pick up the
 script for but would like to see if anyone has the one posted here first.

 -=*George*=-
  
  P.S. My last post of the night. :-)


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In article <1992Sep1.192900.7259@ac.dal.ca> 01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:
> >
> >I was jjst thinking... not only did Aleister Crowley write "moonchild", 
> >he also designed a set of Tarot cards. Does anyone out there have this set?
> >How is it different from, say, the Rider tarot cards? Maybe there's a himt in 
> >the cards...

 Yes, as a matter of a fact I do. As well as the book by Crowley on the set
which is titled "The Book of Thoth (Egyptian Tarot)". It is a fairly exhastive
work. I like the deck very much, I can't compare it to others except to say
it packages a *lot* more symbols than the Rider deck. Crowley also incorperates
*many* doctrines into his explainations of the design. Is there something
specific you were wanting to explore along the Black Lodge? I think you might
find more by exploring "The Book of Lies". 

 More to the point, several of the trump cards have been renamed. A great
example is Strength, which in the Crowley deck is Lust. Justice becomes
Adjustment (interesting note that the explaination is that there exists
no justice in nature. Justice is a concept singularily human and therefore
relative). Of more interest to Laura might have been the Aeon. Sometimes
called the Angel or The Last Judgement.

 For every card, Crowley includes ties to the Hebrew alphabet, numerology,
astrology and alchemy. If he made films, he'd probably would have been
David Lynch's mentor.

> >Mike (you crazy fucking Canadian!)


-- __ /-- __/ (___, (_/rury@3cpu.rain.com

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The movie is playing at the theatre where I fill in occasionally
as projectionist.  Enclosed with the film print was this memo from
New Line Distribution:

  To: Theatre Projectionists
  Re: Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me

  David Lynch, the director of Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me
  has asked me to contact you regarding the sound level of his
  motion picture.  Mr. Lynch has put a lot of effort into the
  soundtrack of Twin Peaks, and feels that the best
  reproduction of sound will be achieved by increasing the
  volume 2 decibels above normal.  Your efforts to accomodate
  Mr. Lynch will surely result in greater audience enjoyment of
  the film and, therefore, greater boxoffice sales.

  Thank you.


Thought a couple of you might find this mildly interesting.
-----
Chris

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In article <15222@umd5.umd.edu>, jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog here...) writes:
> > At worst, it's been roundly panned for the wrong reasons.  The review in
> > the Washington Post was hilariously inaccurate.
> > 
> > They misspelled "Garmonbozia", called Michael Anderson's character the
> > "Man From Another Planet" (maybe they were thinking of "Eraserhead"?),
[remainder deleted]

Actually, I read the review before going and checked the end credits...
I could swear that in the film LMFAP is indeed from a Planet, not a Place...
Could have been a typo by the titlers...  Anyone wanna double check?

-------- eric@npri.com ---------- or ---------- ...uunet!uupsi!npri6!eric -----
                "Rats: Once they knew glory: they ate a bishop."                
Eric C. Williams/ NPRI/ Alexandria, VA/ USA/ (703) 683-9090/ Usual disclaimers.

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I got a copy of the video of the pilot with the added ending and
watched it after seeing FWWM.  I haven't rewatched any of the series
since it aired so I don't remember all the details.

Can someone post what parts of the video movie did not air
in the pilot?  

I know that Bob getting shot in the basement isn't in the series.  It
doesn't fit anyway and was obviously an ultra-feeble attempt at a
quick and dirty ending in case they had to show the thing stand-alone.

Was the part were Sara Palmer saw Bob in Laura's room in the series?
I remember a part in the series where there was a sketch of Bob that
they eventually showed Ronnette in the hospital.  Is that the sketch
from Sara's description or did it come from somewhere else?

There was a part at the end of the video movie where Cooper and others
were in the red room with the zig-zag floor.  Was the red room shown
in the series any time before the end of the second season?

Were any other scenes in the video moive not in the aired pilot movie?

T
hanx, Ken.

(I hope they release the 3:40 version of FWWM on video, the sooner the better)
-- An amazing insight may have paid you a fleeting visit and then retreated. Resist the temptation to chase it; it is faster than you are. Value your glimpse of it, and invite it to return some other time. -John Bitmap

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In article <la87c1INNq99@news.bbn.com>, ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria) wrote:
> > 
> > More importantly, at least in the case of Teresa Banks, it's the LEFT
> > arm, which is the one Mike is missing, which would be the arm that the
> > LMFAP is.  (Remember, he stands where Mike's left arm would be when
> > they are together in the Waiting Room/BlWhiteack Lodge.  (I don't
> > remember if the arms that trembled in the series were left or right
> > arms, though.)

They were right arms. Also the arm of BOB that appears first at the end of
the episode (2014) is his right arm. My memory is that is also the arm that
he uses to harvest the garmonbozia from Leland at the end of FWWM.

Significance? BOB is right handed, as are most people :-)
Wedding rings in the USA usually go on left hand.
OAM? Didn't have a choice. They were stuck with the fact that he is missing
his left.

-Rich

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In article <sterling.715279491@crash> sterling@crash.cts.com (Mike Sterling) writes:
> >My daughter was watching Seaseme Street yesterday and Monsterpiece Theater came on.  The episode was Twin Beaks.  It was rather interesting, as Agent Cookie 
> >was attempting to discover why it was called Twin Beaks.  There were many refrences to the series, but my favorite was the Log Bird and the line "Darn fine Cookie."
> >
> >Mike Sterling
> >

What about..."darn fine plate..."
And then there were the characters of David Finch, and Laura...
A very good take-off on the series, and the background music
was very Peakesque too.

Sally--


-- And I'll see you//And you'll see me || Sally A. Wilson And I'll see you in the branches that blow || Spud Peel In the breeze,//I'll see you in the trees || sally@mica.berkeley.edu Under the sycamore trees (_Sycamore_Trees_ Lynch/Badalamenti)

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I just had a wonderful thought in my sleep last night.  Wouldn't it be cool
if Chris Isaak had shown up in the red room at the end and started
singing Roy Orbison's "In Dreams" ala Jimmy Scott.  After all, Isaak's
singing has often been compared to Oribison's and it would tie in to
all the dreams in the movie plus be a good reference to Blue Velvet.

Well, I did think of it in my sleep after all...
-- ^ Steven Greco ^ (aka Windom Earle) slg20427@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu "Color Me Amazed"-Agent Albert Rosenfield greco@suna0.cs.uiuc.edu

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To: Jim Pellmann
From: Netland
Re: Your composite post of TP discussions.

On behalf of TP fans, new and old, everywhere, THANK YOU!!

I never kept track of my original postings, some of which were included
in your list, and really wanted to see some of them again.  Reading the
discussions again brought back fond memories, and I can't thank you
enough for reposting them.

By the way, I saw the movie last weekend, and all I can say is 
"Wow, Bob, Wow!"  Let's hope it creates some similar discussions.
I think most of the TP fans who are going to see the movie have already
done so, and it has already played in most of the rest of the world,
so I really don't think massive spoiler protection is required. What's
everyone else think?


Brian WOOD    *House address 710 -- same as Blue Lady's apt in Blue Velvet
              *Live next to a grove of TREES
              *My wife's aunt's name is Annie; my sister's name is Anne
              *My wife grew up next to a forest; next street - Glastonbury
              *My father's name - Palmer Robert Wood


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Bob posted that he questioned MIKE/OAM's motives that he was in
fact working for BOB when he gave Coop the clues back in the
second season. Though, unfortately, I have seen the flick only once,
I think MIKE did try to help Laura, and had seen the face of God. Now,
wasn't MIKE the one that let Ronnette go. As for not letting Laura go
I think this too was an act of salvation. Laura knew that unless she
confronted Le-BOB and died, using religious terminology, a martyr's death
that she would be tormented forever, and that she too would become part
of the "Evil in the Woods." That is why she allowed herself to be killed,
almost a christfigure. Folks on the group have been brining up the idea
of Peaks as a Passion Play, well Laura's self-sacrifice of her life, and
thus her rejection of Evil would fit into this. Now, MIKE understood this
and knew that for her to become part of the "light," the White Lodge that
she would have to die. and in the end she did see her "angel," her idea
of salvation.

Yet, the part after, in the Lodge has me confused. He did seem to be
apart of the Black Lodge group--LMFAP, and BOB. Maybe, as it has
been suggested that time works differently in the Lodges, and when
Lodge inhabitants interact with the TP world. Thus we see time flowing
backward/forward/circular and thus one time we see a "damned" MIKE,
and the next he has already seen "the face of God," yet we see it all
jumbled.

I still would like to see more (if we have seen it at all) of the White
Lodge. And the robbed figure...I get the impression that he is part of
the White Lodge.

Now I also see it that like in Christian (and other world religions)
that evil exists and its purpose is to intrap innocents, and this evil
interacts more closely with the TP folks to bring about their fall, and
to feed on "sorrow, and pain." Now, also, if you use the "free choice"
the White Lodge folks cannot interfer to a great extend since it is
up to the individual soul to choose between either Lodge. They do not
interfer, yet give vague advice and then it is up to the person as to
how s/he will deal with that assistance. Yet the Black Lodge folks care
only for more things to feed on, and care little for the free will of
the TP dwellers. Damn that was incoherent..

Sally--I better shut up fast--A. Wilson



-- And I'll see you//And you'll see me || Sally A. Wilson And I'll see you in the branches that blow || Spud Peel In the breeze,//I'll see you in the trees || sally@mica.berkeley.edu Under the sycamore trees (_Sycamore_Trees_ Lynch/Badalamenti)

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Sally writes:

> > Lodge inhabitants interact with the TP world. Thus we see time flowing
> > backward/forward/circular and thus one time we see a "damned" MIKE,
> > and the next he has already seen "the face of God," yet we see it all
> > jumbled.

I find this idea to be inconsistent.  IF Mike was telling the truth during
the series, then any time we see a two-armed Mike, we see him when he is
"damned," and when we see a one-armed Mike, we see him when he is "redeemed".
I have yet to see a two-armed Mike.  (Remember that he said he cut his arm
off as a sign of his own redemption.)

> > I think MIKE did try to help Laura, and had seen the face of God. Now,
> > wasn't MIKE the one that let Ronnette go.

I find this hard to believe.  An angel cut Ronette's bonds.  Mike ran to
the train car; Ronette opened the door.  Mike tossed/dropped the green
ring into the car, which Laura wears, causing BOB to scream, "Don't make
me do this!"

After the event is done, MIKE simply walks away, leaving a bashed and
bleeding (possibly dying) Ronette lying on the ground by the railroad car.
Surely the act of a "redeemed" man.

> > Laura knew that unless she confronted Le-BOB and died, using religious
> > terminology, a martyr's death that she would be tormented forever,
> > and that she too would become part of the "Evil in the Woods."

I think Laura had little to no idea of what was actually going on.  She
was far too confused over the course of the movie to have this sort of
perception.

> > That is why she allowed herself to be killed, almost a christfigure.

Yeah, she looked *really* willing to me.

> > Folks on the group have been brining up the idea of Peaks as a Passion Play,
> > well Laura's self-sacrifice of her life, and thus her rejection of Evil
> > would fit into this.

It's not clear to me that she ever really "rejected" evil.  All I know is
that there were some things she was scared of, and some she wasn't.

> > Now, MIKE understood this nd knew that for her to become part of the "light,"
> > the White Lodge that she would have to die. and in the end she did see her
> > "angel," her idea of salvation.

And Ronette's, and Catherine's.


It seems to me that anyone who persists in believing all of what MIKE said
during the series has some reexamination to do.  I would hesitate to believe
most of what the People From Another Place say, especially in light of
one of their main symbols: the papier-mache mask.  I know it's really risque
taking stabs at analyzing this symbol, but here goes:

The mask is white, symbolic of "goodness", and without features or design,
symbolic of "simplicity" or 
of "purity".  The person wearing this mask is voluntarily presenting this
picture of simplicity and/or goodness to the outside world.  Note, however,
that the one major feature of the mask is a rather long Pinocchio-like nose:
it's all a lie.

The "goodness" guise I would interpret as the LMFAP's pretense of helping
Cooper, or MIKE's pretense of being good.  The "simplicity" I would say
refers to the concepts that MIKE and BOB are diametrically opposed, that
the white lodge and the black lodge are opposites, that all the people we
see are actually different people.  I think it is becoming more obvious
that none of these assumptions are true.

  -Jon

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In article <1316900007@igc.apc.org> Kirk Biglione <kbiglione@igc.apc.org> writes:

   Interesting you should mention this.  I've long thought that Crowley
   has been a major influence on Lynch.

Could you give examples that support this?

   In fact the similarities between Windham Earle and Crowley are rather 
   striking.

You mean Windham Earle is also the son of a Scottish brewer who joined
the Golden Dawn, revealed its secrets, formed his own occult groups,
published many tongue-in-cheek books revealing his secrets in a
code-ridden symbolic way, and still had time to be a mountain climber
and a heroin addict?

But, seriously, again, what are the similarities?

-30-
Bob

``And I rave and I rage and I rape and I rend...''

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     Lynch sure has a penchant for large fish...


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In article <4239@3cpu.rain.com> edrury@3cpu.rain.com (Ed Drury) writes:
   In article <1992Sep1.192900.7259@ac.dal.ca> 01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:
   >
   >I was jjst thinking... not only did Aleister Crowley write "moonchild", 
   >he also designed a set of Tarot cards. Does anyone out there have this set?
   >How is it different from, say, the Rider tarot cards? Maybe there's a himt in 
   >the cards...

    For every card, Crowley includes ties to the Hebrew alphabet, numerology,
   astrology and alchemy. If he made films, he'd probably would have been
   David Lynch's mentor.

I don't believe these links are novel to Crowley.  He was just making
exoteric magic(k)al links that esoteric organizations like the Golden
Dawn had postulated for a long time.

-30-
Bob

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Does anyone out there know of any Twin Peaks Fanzines, especially for fiction? 
There is a wealth of material left unexplored, to be sure.  If there are none,
would anyone be interested in starting one?  I would gladly do the work, If I
thought there would be submissions, and/or lackeys to push work off on :)


Well?


--Gareth


"I am as blank as a fart"
-----Jaques, FWWM

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What else has Robert Engels done (he co-wrote TP:FWWM)?

Can someone refresh my memory about a line from season 1? It is when
Cooper and Truman see Leo and Truman yells something to Leo and then
later says something to Cooper about Leo. What were these lines?
(This scene begins with Cooper pointing out the ducks on the pond.)
-- Robert Chao Oakland, California

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Jon writes:

> >Sally writes:
> >
>> >> Lodge inhabitants interact with the TP world. Thus we see time flowing
>> >> backward/forward/circular and thus one time we see a "damned" MIKE,
>> >> and the next he has already seen "the face of God," yet we see it all
>> >> jumbled.

> >I find this idea to be inconsistent.  IF Mike was telling the truth during
> >the series, then any time we see a two-armed Mike, we see him when he is
> >"damned," and when we see a one-armed Mike, we see him when he is "redeemed".
> >I have yet to see a two-armed Mike.  (Remember that he said he cut his arm
> >off as a sign of his own redemption.)

In the lodge, LMFAP is touching Mike's shoulder, so in effect, Mike is
reconnected to his arm (LMFAP).  Could it be that when out of the lodge,
we have a "good" Mike, trying to stop Bob, but when in the lodge, we 
have the old, "bad" Mike again?
 
----------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Stevensstevens@s3mars.scubed.com, stevens@seismo.css.gov

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In alt.tv.twin-peaks, schultz@unixg.ubc.ca (Stewart Schultz) writes:

> > My impression of the movie: not of much interest to anyone but TP (or
> > Sheryl Lee) fans, pretty predictable overall, but with some very good
> > acting by Lee and Wise.  Lotsa typical Lynch humor, loaded with TP

Yeah, if you mean, by good acting, the regular descent into tear
filled histrionics that are barely justified and not especially
convincing.  About half way through the movie I was hoping Leland
would hurry up and kill her so she would stop crying all the time.

On the whole, I thought her acting job was pretty wretched, and
the only real reccommendation I could give is, 'go see the movie
if you want to see Sheryl Lee's breasts'.  Other than that, filming
this movie was a pretty big mistake as it tries to embody the
mystery of Larua P, and merely reduces her to a whiny and less
than sympathetic little twit.   It really may not be something
Lynch could have changed.  This series was driven and empowered
by the very mysterious nature of Laura.  They removed that.

And the teaser scenes in the series about the murder in the train
car are FAR more effective dramatically than what they actually
filmed for the movie.

I was disappointed.

doug

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I saw a book today about Native Amercian symbolism. While it did not have 
anything on owls, it did have a small section on corn. I can't remember 
everything it said, but what sticks in my mind is that corn is a symbol 
for earth, life, and more specifically, Mother Earth. This makes me think 
that the inhabitants of the Black Lodge (aliens?) are consuming not only 
the souls of humans, but the very essence of the planet itself! Perhaps 
the battle between the two Lodges concerns not just a small area of one 
state, but control over the entire planet. You could also connect this to 
the ecological problems of we face today--it's all BOB's fault!

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Saw the movie for a second time last night.  Spoilers...

Who was the red-clothed figure jumping on and off the box during Jeffreys'
narrative?  He was wearing whiteface and an artificial nose (like the owl
mask) and had his hair colored black.

What did the grandson have in his hand?  He was carrying it around, both
during the scene where they gave Laura the picture and the scene where he
jumped around after Leland fled the motel.

There's a long tracking shot at the end in the lodge, after the BOB/Mike/
Leland/LMFAP scene but before the Cooper/Laura scene, where the camera tracks
across the floor towards the curtains.  It appears that there is something
behind the curtains right where the camera is headed.  I have no idea what it
was.

Observations:

BOB doesn't seem to kill just for fun.  Teresa was killed for blackmailing
Leland.  Laura's death seems to be jealousy more than anything else (L/B
didn't like the idea of other people having her).  Maddy was killed to keep
her from leaving.

People have been characterizing the spirits as good and bad.  I've decided
that this is far too simplistic an analysis.  I think the spirits have their
own personal agendas. In some cases their agendas have results that harm
people, and in others the agendas help them, but the harm or help is not
usually the goal of their actions.  I think the OAM is trying to stop BOB,
but not out of any sense of devotion to humans -- he's still willing to
consume the garmonbozia.  The LMFAP screams with agony when Laura is
murdered, but he eats it too.  The two of them tell BOB "Give us all *our*
garmorbozia."

Laura can tell that the OAM and the LMFAP are related.  After the car-yelling
scene, Laura says something like, "Who was that?  Do I know him?"  It was
clear that he looked familiar.  Then she flashed on the memory of her dream
with the LMFAP offering the ring.

My guess is that the same thing happened to Jeffreys as happened to
Desmond.  (What is it with FBI agents with first names for last names?
Stanley, Desmond, Jeffreys...)

Mrs. Chalfont lived in the trailer that had previously been occupied by a Mr.
Chalfont.  As Mrs. Tremond, she lived in a house that was currently occupied
by a Mrs. Tremond.  Interesting parallel.  I don't think we've really learned
her name at all.

There are lots of things I think I now understand, and lots of things I think
I sort of understand, or at least have hypotheses for.  2 things I don't
understand at all:

- The ring.  Is it protection?  A mark?  Teresa had it for quite some time
before she died (it was in all the pictures, and notice how pale her skin was
where it had been).  Did she lose it before she died or after?  My guess is
after since her skin was dirty elsewhere, but clean there.  What was it doing
under the trailer?  How did the OAM get it?  Is there more than one ring?  It
looked as if the OAM threw it to Laura in the train car.  Did wearing it at
death help her?  Why did dream Cooper tell her not to take the ring?

- Why did Laura keep saying the Bobby killed Mike?  It could just be drunken
ramblings, but I can't help but think there was more to it.  But I have no
idea what.

Questions, questions, questions...

__   -paul asente
\/     asente@adobe.com   ...decwrl!adobe!asente   moo-bear@cs.stanford.edu

Bibles can ALWAYS be obtained FOR FREE from Hotels, Church organizations, the
Gideon Society, thrift stores, and your parents' house.  Be advised that in
certain instances theft is a moral obligation.

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Many probably missed what the OAM said in the car to Leland and Laura
when Leland was revving the engine, honking the horn and screaming:

You stole the corn!  I had it canned... over the store!
And Miss, the look on her face when it was opened.
There was a closeness*
Like the formica table top.
The thread will be torn, Mr. Palmer!
The thread will be torn!
It's him!  It's your father!!

*I can't make out this line but this is what it says in the script.

So Le-BOB stole the corn.  Sounds like he was welshing on the OAM?

ed

-- /\__Edwin Nomura -- enomura@ucsd.edu__________.:___________.____________/\ / \\ .:. . : . : / \\ / \\\ : .:: : : Fire walk with me :.. : . : / \\\ / \\\\..::..:::.:::::.:.:.....:::::...::..:...:::::.:.:::::.:....::.../ \\\\

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In article <3110@tardis.Tymnet.COM> jms@tardis.Tymnet.COM (Joe Smith) writes:
> >In article <17ot54INNkro@agate.berkeley.edu> sally@anableps.berkeley.edu (S. A. Wilson) writes:
>> >>And I'll see you//And you'll see me          ||    Sally  A.  Wilson
>> >>And I'll see you in the branches that blow   ||    Spud   Peel
>> >>In the breeze,//I'll see you in the trees    ||    sally@mica.berkeley.edu
>> >>Under the sycamore trees       (_Sycamore_Trees_  Lynch/Badalamenti)
> >
> >I saw the movie twice, and tried to locate all the music from the soundtrack,
> >but I can't remember hearing Sycamore Trees in the movie.  Where was it?
> >
> >--

 It was played right at the very end when Leland enters The Lodge to meet
 the OAM, LMFAP and Bob.. some of the music (instrumental) is playing but no
 words.

 -=*George*=-




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In article <58490005@hpscit.sc.hp.com>, bobk@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Bob Kelley) 
writes:

> > She may or may not have died.  In the final episode of the TV show, she
> > was chained to the bank vault door when Andrew Packard went in and opened
> > up his security box, which contained a note from his partner (who had just
> > died) laughing about the lack of money inside.  Below the note was a bomb
> > that immediately blows up.  The next scene shows the bank windows explode
> > outward and one of the character's eyeglasses land across the street.  
> > 
> > The scene indicates that Audrey's probably gone all to pieces about the 
> > bomb.

Hee hee hee.  Gone all to pieces about the bomb!
Well, thanks for the reminder, anyhow!

Still have not seen FWWM.  Do you honestly recommend it?  I've heard such
lousy reviews and would enjoy hearing yours.

K.  

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In article <182ugrINN5fo@agate.berkeley.edu>, sally@anableps.berkeley.edu (S. A. Wilson) writes:
> > Yet, the part after, in the Lodge has me confused. He did seem to be
> > apart of the Black Lodge group--LMFAP, and BOB. Maybe, as it has
> > been suggested that time works differently in the Lodges, and when
> > Lodge inhabitants interact with the TP world. Thus we see time flowing
> > backward/forward/circular and thus one time we see a "damned" MIKE,
> > and the next he has already seen "the face of God," yet we see it all
> > jumbled.

Having not seen the movie, I'll still hazard the following.  From
descriptions here, the LMFAP was hanging onto the OAM's side at the
time.  Perhaps this "reattachment" of the arm results in an evil MIKE?
-- cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet...

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Would someone give me the name of that requiem at the end of the film?
Is it on the CD soundtrack?  I suspect that it isn't, as the film credits
mentioned some requiem recorded by a symphony orchestra, and there is no
mention of this on the CD.


-- Brian Ross "At the end of the day, all money gets you bross@sandcastle.cosc.brocku.ca is a better place to watch television." -- Dana Carvey

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I heard that the laserdisk-release of FWWM is coming up (has come up?),
can anyone give me a pointer to where I might get my hands on it (PAL-version)?.

The rest is just some crap I ran in to today. I was watching the daydream
commercial (keywords: lighthouse, air ship, beach, wind (if you don't recognize it
you havent seen it)), the lyrics go like this...

"Birds singing in the sycamore trees,
 dream a little dream of me."

with some imagination one can read TP into it :-). "...dream a little..." would
probably refer to BOB and one could always change the text into...

"Howls hooing in the sycamore..." 

*big smiley*

See ya folks!

-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rickard 'Eneq' Eneqvist. | "Someone will always hate you, so why bother?" 'eneq@Meryl.CSD.UU.SE' | "The silent murmur of the gray stone always seems | to lift my spirits to yet greater heights." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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In article <1992Sep2.042729.19202@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, xxxx@peptide.ecn.purdue.edu (Name Redacted) writes:
> > Why did Hank always carry around a domino with 3/3 dots on it??
> > He sent a picture of it to Josie and said 'Get my message??'

A lucky fetish, I suppose.  Note that it was NOT always the 3/3 domino.
They misplaced that one during the filming, and switched to another one
at least once, and possibly twice.
-- cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet...

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------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
 >>>>>>>
Sort of. I was expecting to see more of a struggle between good
and evil in Laura's character. In the series, we were told about
all the good things she did - meals on wheels, helping Johnny
Horne, tutoring Josie. These things made it more shocking to the
town, and to us, when Laura's dark side was revealed. In the movie,
she had few redeeming qualities. Even when she was with James, it
didn't seem as though she was trying to be good. I think it would
have helped if we had seen this battle going on inside Laura.
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>

If you had  read Laura's diary, you would have seen a part of her
not shown on the TV series.  It showed thedestruction of her mind
much better than the series.  It showed the struggle between her
good and evil halves and how the evil part won. It should how Bob
destroyed her long before she was murdered.

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In article <laa338INNf53@news.bbn.com> ingria@BBN.COM writes:
> >In article <4239@3cpu.rain.com> edrury@3cpu.rain.com (Ed Drury) writes:
> >
> >    For every card, Crowley includes ties to the Hebrew alphabet, numerology,
> >   astrology and alchemy. If he made films, he'd probably would have been
> >   David Lynch's mentor.
> >
> >I don't believe these links are novel to Crowley.  He was just making
> >exoteric magic(k)al links that esoteric organizations like the Golden
> >Dawn had postulated for a long time.

 Not at all novel. I didn't mean to suggest that this was a unique approach.
Crowley designed a set of cards - A contempory of his founded a religion
so threatening that followers of his were hunted and executed in mass in
Iran. Is it possible that Lynch has also read and borrowed from the writings
of Abdu'l~Baha' ?

 Personally, I doubt it. To me, the closet tie to TP:FWWM is that of the
shaman or the quatum physicist and the works of Fred Alan Wolf have the
most links. But look at what he has us talking about! Is Twin Peaks simply
a call to think? Research? Read? Be inquisitive?

 Yes, I think it is.

-- __ /-- __/ (___, (_/rury@3cpu.rain.com

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spoilers ahead...









Joe Zitt <zitt!joe@dogface.austin.tx.us> writes:
> >Also: I have a vague feeling that "Girl Talk" is the instrumental version of
> >James's song from the second season.

Bzzt!  Thank you for playing our game!  ;>  I checked this out last night
after seeing your message, and while the guitar sounds a bit similar in
the two songs, they are not one and the same.  I think you mentioned this
just so I would have to listen to James singing again.  Bleah!

I checked out a few other things as well that people have mentioned on
the newsgroup.  I did not see the blue rose that someone said Gordon
Cole had when he first met Coop.

Also, while finding one of the above-mentioned scenes, I happened to
watch Donna meeting the Tremonds.  One of the things I noticed is that
when Mrs. Tremond takes the lid off the lunch tray and sees the creamed
corn, she has a look that can be described as a mix between surprise and
possibly alarm.  Later on, Donna asks her about if she knew Laura.  Mrs.
Tremond looks away and says no.

John Schultz (caffeine abuser)   !  ABC killed Laura Palmer
c491153@mizzou1.bitnet           !  Macintosh-free and proud of it!
c491153@mizzou1.missouri.edu     !  Subscriber to the hacker ethic

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spoilers ahead...









<crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu> writes:
> >All these recent postings have covered about everything I myself was
> >going to say -- FWWM you either hate it or love it, apparently. One
> >odd thing -- my perception of the Palmer's house in FWWM was that it
> >was MUCH SMALLER INSIDE than in TP. The livingroom with that screen
> >behind the sofa, the same room where Leland killed Maddie, etc. etc.
> >seemed about half the size in FWWM. Of course the lighting and, as
> >someone else pointed out, the graininess of the film was entirely
> >different in FWWM -- at some points it seemed almost like amateur
> >photography to me. So the perceived difference of the size of the
> >rooms in the Palmer house coudl have been a factor of that. But I
> >wonder if that interior set really WAS smaller than in TP?  One of
> >Lynch's subtle and sly effects?

I noticed the same thing myself, but I'm not sure if it is really a
different set, or that I just haven't watched my tapes lately.  I'm
planning on seeing FWWM again on Thursday (if it's still in town...)
and will watch my tapes beforehand to see if I can notice a difference
in the set.  I'm also going to do the same for the furniture in the
Black Lodge.

John Schultz (caffeine abuser)   !  ABC killed Laura Palmer
c491153@mizzou1.bitnet           !  Macintosh-free and proud of it!
c491153@mizzou1.missouri.edu     !  Subscriber to the hacker ethic

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spoilers ahead...










Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog here... <jblum@hamlet.umd.edu> writes:
> >"...Ah, but when I saw the face of God, I was changed... took the entir
> >arm off..."
> >
> >Remember the one-armed man saying that?  Originally we took it to mean that
> >MIKE had repented of the killings, cut off his arm (separating himself from
> >the LMFAP), and tracked BOB to Twin Peaks.
> >
> >The movie seems to tell a different story.

Now, this is a *very* interesting idea.  We always assumed that the OAM
was trying to help Cooper and Co.  What if he was actually trying to
lead them astray?  When Gordon comes to TP, Hawk has just brought the OAM
back in for questioning, and he doesn't look to happy about it.  Recall
when Ben Horne walks into the room with the OAM at the Great Northern an
the OAM collapses?  How we all thought that meant that BOB had been in
Ben at some point?  What if it was a ruse to throw Cooper off track?

John Schultz (caffeine abuser)   !  ABC killed Laura Palmer
c491153@mizzou1.bitnet           !  Macintosh-free and proud of it!
c491153@mizzou1.missouri.edu     !  Subscriber to the hacker ethic

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In article <37591@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> ww10aac@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Eddie the 'ead) writes:
> >Many probably missed what the OAM said in the car to Leland and Laura
> >when Leland was revving the engine, honking the horn and screaming:

> >The thread will be torn!

"And I know about the stitches with the red thread." -- the OAM in the
Euroversion.  Connections, anyone?...  :-)


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spoilers ahead...









Rich Haller <rhaller@oregon.uoregon.edu> writes:
>> >>       Who lived in the trailer that Agent Chet Desmond found the ring under?
>> >>        My guess would be the one armed man?
> >Nope. It was the Old lady and her grandson. She was called Mrs. Tremond in
> >the original, has a different name in FWWM but I forget.

The name in FWWM was Chalfont, I am not sure on the spelling as I did
not pay close attention during the credits...

John Schultz (caffeine abuser)   !  ABC killed Laura Palmer
c491153@mizzou1.bitnet           !  Macintosh-free and proud of it!
c491153@mizzou1.missouri.edu     !  Subscriber to the hacker ethic

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spoilers ahead...














Everyone keeps referring to Leland's wound in FWWM, but is this really a
wound?  I don't recall him being injured at all in the train car.  I thought
that the blood that BOB removed from Leland (and turned into garmonbozia)
was Laura's blood.

The angel in the Lodge was not played by Heather Graham, I just remembered
looking at the credits for the two angels...

Also, someone mentioned a shooting script which I believe was posted here
a few months ago, but I never saved.  Stupid me.  I checked the archives on
Audrey, and was able to find a FWWM timeline, but it did not have the cut
scenes that this shooting script seemed to have.  If anyone has a copy, I
would appreciate a copy or a pointer to one.  Thanks.

John Schultz (caffeine abuser)   !  ABC killed Laura Palmer
c491153@mizzou1.bitnet           !  Macintosh-free and proud of it!
c491153@mizzou1.missouri.edu     !  Subscriber to the hacker ethic

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In article <9209030125.AA04234@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> C491153@MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU (John Schultz) writes:
> >spoilers ahead...









> ><crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu> writes:
>> >>odd thing -- my perception of the Palmer's house in FWWM was that it
>> >>was MUCH SMALLER INSIDE than in TP. The livingroom with that screen

> >I noticed the same thing myself, but I'm not sure if it is really a
> >different set, or that I just haven't watched my tapes lately.  I'm
> >planning on seeing FWWM again on Thursday (if it's still in town...)

Simple answer.  The one used in the series was the studio set.  The one
in FWWM -- and in the original pilot -- was the real McCoy.  The actual
interior of the house in Snoqualmie used for the Palmers' house.

Sound good?

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I'm not sure if this has been posted -- I'm a week behind on news --
but the cover story on this month's "American Cinematographer"
magazine is on FWWM. It should theoretically have hit the newsstands
on Monday. So, rush out in a buying frenzy.

Sally


-- Sally Smith (510)790-0608 sallylb@netcom.com (I was sally@tardis.tymnet.com) I'm unemployed--these opinions *must* be mine! "Don't investigate this too closely." -- Don Bellisario, re: "Quantum Leap"

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Date:  2 Sep 1992 21:52 EDT  
Distribution: world
Keywords:  

In article <1992Sep2.211218.22627@adobe.com>, asente@adobe.com (A Usenet Pal) writes...
> >Saw the movie for a second time last night.  Spoilers...
> >

> >BOB doesn't seem to kill just for fun.  Teresa was killed for blackmailing
> >Leland.  Laura's death seems to be jealousy more than anything else (L/B
> >didn't like the idea of other people having her).  Maddy was killed to keep
> >her from leaving.

     No, I'd agree that BOB doesn't kill just for fun...  but he's "eager
     for fun..." so I'd guess that's a large part of it - he kills for
     the garmonbozia, obviously...  And the One-Armed Man/Little Man From
     Another Place DON'T kill for the same reason: because the
     garmonbozia is addictive, and the OAM has broken the addiction,
     "I took off the arm..."  after "...I saw the face of God..."

     Anyway, I am not quite sure why Leland/BOB kills Teresa, but 
     the blackmailing Leland angle is a good one... but why would
     BOB care if Leland was being blackmailed?  It's no big deal to
     him/it.  
     But with Laura, on the other hand, I think you've missed a big
     piece of the point: Laura wasn't killed out of jealousy, Laura
     was killed out of RAGE because she had the strength (as Leland
     when he was a child did not) to resist BOB...  BOB wanted Laura
     as his new host...  She resisted him from the ages of 12 to 17,
     and it nearly cost her sanity (or maybe it DID cost her sanity).

     The climactic train car scene is the final battle between Laura
     and BOB/Leland... and she wins, HER will is stronger.  BOB will
     never have her... so he kills her... and in so doing, capitulates
     the struggle.  BOB gets Laura's garmonbozia, which he must split
     with OAM/LMFAP (because they were once partners... a pre-existing
     deal or one of the rules of the Lodge people?)...  But he DOESN'T
     get Laura.

     I've been wondering if that Train Car scene might not have been
     LAURA'S version of the Dweller On The Threshold confrontation:
     she faces her greatest fear with perfect courage, sure enough...
     but does this gain her admittance into the White Lodge?...  
     Comments on that???

     Maddy, on the other hand, was killed, I think, because BOB had
     feasted on Maddy's garmonbozia and wanted more.  Remember the
     episode which opened with Leland's interrogation for the murder
     of Jaques Renault?  That long track throuh a dark cavernous
     region with Owls hooting, girls (Laura... Maddy?) screaming,
     and little voices coaxingly chanting "Maddy... Maddy... Maddy?
     Maddy..."  We realize that the track has been out from a slot
     wall in the interrogation room, but on another level, we've been
     given admittance to Leland's own head... 

     We've heard what is going on in there: BOB, or BOB and others, are
     enticing Leland into murdering Maddy...  or BOB is tormenting the
     real Leland with what he's going to do.

     True enough, Maddy was murdered to prevent her from leaving, but
     I think had she not decided to leave just then, she probably
     would have lived a bit longer...

> >- Why did Laura keep saying the Bobby killed Mike?  It could just be drunken
> >ramblings, but I can't help but think there was more to it.  But I have no
> >idea what.

     They were stoned!  I don't think there's anything more to it than
     that...  Naturally, if Phillip Gerard turns up dead, wrapped in
     plastic, in the next PEAKS film (knock... er, wood), I'll recant
     that and call it foreshadowing...

     Comments anyone??? 

     Scott Gorcey

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     I guess that ^ says it all...  semantics question, and who really
     cares... but if PEAKS is to continue as films... Comments?

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A note on our August adventure:


We overnited at the North Bend Motel on Main Street --
just next to Mt. Si (TP).  Their rates are considerably
less than the published rates at the Lodge near the falls.
The motel is a few blocks away from the Mar T (RR), which
was an enjoyable stop for dinner.  There was no pie available at
6 PM, so we stopped off and bought our "3 pieces of cherry pie
limit" the next morning.  Suggestion: Get there before the tour
buses arrive in early afternoon if you want to have a better
chance at getting a piece of pie.

P.S. North Bend motel gave us a "free" postcard with a portrait
of Mt. Si in the background.





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Near the end of FWWM, just before we see someone sucking the 
creamed corn off the spoon, there's a shadowy shot of what looks
like a monkey's face.  I didn't pay enough attention in my
physical anthropology classes to identify the species, unfortunately.

I've seen no discussion of this!  I found it chilling, and I'm not
sure why - something to do with an impression that the spirits were
tied in with humans from *way* back, maybe.  What do you make of it? 

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I've spent the past 24 hours since seeing the movie pondering the imponderable
and i was wondering if any of the good people out there would help me by
sending or reposting the original shooting script. I remember something about
it being posted here several weeks/months ago and i didnt read it then so
as to save whatever surprises the film would hold.
thanks and thanks,
Xtian


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Has anyone heard of any plans to put TP (the series) into syndication?
After seeing FWWM, I would very much like to see the episodes that I
missed (and fill in some plot-holes in my memory).
                                   Scott


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I am not Ken West.

My roommate Jeff Vita has been reading these posts arguing about
the good or evil nature of the OAM/Mike, and has a different take on it that
I think works better:

Assume Mike truly did repent and is, if not *good*, at least
opposed to BOB. Okay, he tries his best to stop BOB before LP's murder, but 
afterward, in the red room, he collects garmonbozia out of mercy for
Leland!
Look at it this way: If Leland had woken up the next day and remembered
what he'd done as BOB or been so covered in blood/evidence that he was accused
and convicted very quickly, he would have had more pain and sorrow than he
possibly could have handled. Mike, taking pity and showing Mercy, denies
BOB the thrill of letting Leland know and thus feeding off even more
Garmonbozia. Remember, BOB didn't look happy when MIKE/LMFAP demanded "their"
share of the pain and sorrow. He looked angry as all hell. So, while Leland
has to deal with the murder of his daughter, he is at least spared the
knowledge of what BOB did to his life through his own acts.
It's not Leland's blood that BOB removes, it's Laura's: the evidence
that would have woken Leland up to the facts.

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Julie Cruise has replaced Cindy Wilson in the B-52's.
-- t====he==============t==+=======ru================t====================h====== John P. Speno | "Pssst. Hey Guido... Student MacAbuser | It's all so clear to me now. I'm the keeper of the speno@clam.rutgers.edu| cheese and you're the lemon merchant." -- Ren Hoek ====i==========s========+a=======vi=========r==============u=================s

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