Season 2, Episodes 21–22: Miss Twin Peaks / Beyond Life and Death — June 10, 1991–August 27, 1992

In article <1991Jun11.221007.25362@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> mjf@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Michael J Flory) writes:
> >Yes, a statue of _Venus._  Saturn and Jupiter are not alone in the current
> >planetary conjuction -- even in the smoggy skies off Manhattan we can see
> >that Venus is the brightest of the three... I took the Venus de Milo to be
> >Annie, Coop's Venus, and when the statue disappeared, I feared the worst for
> >her.  Or was it just that this symbol of love had fled?

Probably because the three planets currently in conjunction are Venus, 
Jupiter and MARS.


rON. (blowfish@triton.unm.edu!ariel.unm.edu)
"It is only with the heart that one see rightly;
 what is essential is invisible to the eye."

Did anyone else notice the paleness of all of the characters at the
beginning?  Especially Windom when he first appears.  It looked like
he'd been rolling in the flour.  And when he smiled, I thought his
teeth were black.  Am I going crazy?  No one else has mentioned it,
but I'm sure the three of us watching it all freaked.  Then we
noticed everyone seemed pale.  Maybe we were just sensitive.  I
loaned out my tape or I'd check it again.

Please someone reaffirm me here.

sj

In article <ufkjunklwa@ads.com> ellon@ADS.COM (Ellon Schnaible) writes:


> >In article <TOM.91Jun11015926@kether.webo.dg.com> tom@kether.webo.dg.com (Tom Sullivan) writes:
>> >>What about Cooper saying "I Will" to Windom Earle's request to him
>> >>about trading his soul for Annie's life?  Is THIS why Bob now has
>> >>Cooper?  Note that Bob popped right in at that point, but mentioned
>> >>that Windom had overstepped his "authority"...Hmmmm......


> >Ok, maybe I wasn't paying enough attention, but... didn't BoB tell 
> >coop that Earle couldn't ask for his soul, and then BoB took Earles
> >soul.  When did he get into Cooper?  I just don't "get it".

> >Ellon

Maybe it was Coop's williingness to do so that gave Bob an upper hand?
Maybe it was Coop's fear of his doppleganger?  Note the wound that
Coop suffers before WE stabs him...Maybe it was there UNTIL he
actually get's stabbed by WE (backwards time??)...Hmmm...

In article <544@wybbs.mi.org> meyers@wybbs.mi.org (John Meyers) writes:
> >   Okay, the ending. If this were a cliffhanger, it would be great ending.
> >We would be spellbound all summer, waiting to find out what happens. But
> >assuming Lynch knew that the show was over by this time...

He didn't, dammit!  What we saw last night was filmed months ago, and
reports I've read say that it was not altered, not one iota, after
ABC cancelled the show.  It's true that the filming was completed after
ABC put the show on hiatus the first time, but at that point, Lynch and
Frost were still lobbying for a continuation, a renewal.  They'd have
sabotaged themselves if they completed everything, then there'd be
nothing to renew.

I am amused by the people posting contradictory (to each other) notes
saying that it was "obvious" that one thing or another was added later.
It seems clear to me that, if ratings and cancellation weren't an issue,
they probably would have done it this way.

It's the season-ending cliffhanger episode.  As such, it was SUPPOSED to
leave unanswered questions for the next season.  In any case, Lynch and
gang seem to be attempting to get a movie together, so it's STILL not the
end.


--
--
Joe Buck
jbuck@galileo.berkeley.edu {uunet,ucbvax}!galileo.berkeley.edu!jbuck

John Meyers replies to Larry Virden ("Myself, I am flat out ANGRY"), and
explains Coop's drifting attention span (forgets Giant's warning) as
follows:
> >Cooper was probably caught up in the moment. Love makes you do strange things,
> >and blind to others. Perhaps his mind was elsewhere. (Probably on that
> >gratuitous love scene first half of the finale)

Gra-TU-i-tous, you say!  Hmmmmphh.  At least *some* of us out here think
that "Twin Peaks" is just as much fun for its portrayal of *love*
relationships (perish the thought (-:), as it is for the fantasy, the 
mystery, and the post-modern film-buff stuff.  In other words, the scene
between Coop and Annie is a scene about *romance*--the power of love to
open the White Lodge, and all that.  Just because Lynch let us down by
not doing more with the White Lodge concept, doesn't mean he can't do
a good love scene.  Not all sex is "gratuitous."

--all in good fun,

Fiona

This thought just occurred to me:

Windham Earle says that he will let Annie live if
Cooper will give him his soul.  Cooper agrees.  Earle
supposedly takes the soul with his knife(?).

Then BOB shows up and says that Windham Earle cannot ask
for his soul and that instead, BOB will take WEs soul.

What if BOB was lying?  Everyone seems to assume that
BOB is right and that Coops soul is still intact.  If
WE did have Coops soul, then BOB taking WEs would mean
that BOB possessed Cooper.  That would explain how Cooper
got tricked into hosting BOB and that hes still a good 
guy deep down.  Maybe a fighting inside Coops body is in
order between BOB and the REAL Cooper.  This would make
sense because Cooper gave up his soul for a pure reason-
for Annie.  BOB takes advantage of this love and turns
it to evil.  Fear and love are the two ways to the Lodge?
Maybe showing fear of BOB gets him to possess you (ie
Josie) and love can too if he can trick you (ie Leland,
Cooper).  

Comments?
Sorry if someone already thought of this and I missed it.


-- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Melanie Horn | University of California, San Diego melanie@ucsd.edu | Hello Agent Cooper. Ill see you in 25 mhorn@sdcc13.ucsd.edu | years. Meanwhile.. -Laura Palmer

John Meyers writes a great posting, very entertaining, about his
reactions to the show, and says
> >   Okay, the ending. If this were a cliffhanger, it would be great ending.
> >We would be spellbound all summer, waiting to find out what happens. But
> >assuming Lynch knew that the show was over by this time...
> >
> >... IT WOULD BE AN EVEN BETTER ENDING! When Coop was in bed and was told 
> >Annie was Ok, I thought "oh boy, another wishy-washy ending. How predictable."
> >Of course, just seeing that Coop was near a mirror was enough to give the
> >secret away, but not the ending. I'm sorry if you don't agree with me, but
> >doesn't it get boring when everything concludes with a happy ending? Now we
> >are left to our imagination on a world with an evil Cooper. Mind boggling...

Mind-boggling indeed!  I hope it boggles Lynch's mind--enough to keep
him churning out TP movies for some time to come.  :-)  (Let's start 
thinking of titles for those movies, y'all.)

But an evil Cooper is not the *only* thing I imagine!  I also imagine:
--as a result of multiple spider bites, Leo goes insane and is
hospitalized, but when he is put on Haloperidol, he turns into a docile
gentle-giant of a man, and becomes close friends with Johnny Horne;
--Ben wakes up from his head injury thinking that he's Abraham
Lincoln; he is so wise and kindly, he's elected mayor a few months
later, when Mayor Milford keels over while receiving a blowjob;
--Major Briggs makes it to his destination, and opens the door
to the White Lodge (assisted, of course, by all the lovers in town (-:),
where he unleashes some marvelous mind-boggling force for Good--sort
of like the Great Spirit crossed with the primal Mother Goddess. 

This force for Good is so strong, it will mobilize the remnants of Dale
Cooper's soul, which are still floating around inside his body--recall
that Leland was still "inside" there with Bob, because he re-emerged at
the time of his death--and allow those remnants to be fruitful and
multiply, to grow stronger, so that at least he will engage in a fierce
battle with his Shadow self, his Doppelganger, the part of him that
cooperates with Bob, and then....

I guess I got a little carried away.  I'm worried about Dale Cooper,
let's face it.  I'm trying to think up a scenario where he makes it
back to us.

    --Fiona O.

First of all, regarding the "deaths" of Andrew, Pete, and Audrey:

  Pete was directly behind Andrew Packard, so it's not unreasonable that he
  might survive.

  Audrey was far enough away to at least conceivably survive.

  Andrew is a goner, short of "Ooo, it's a miracle" type of shoddy writing.

In response to Rocky Giovinazzo:
> >I didn't understand why the Giant/SDC were in the waiting room.  I
> >suppose that the waiting room was neutral territory for Black/White
> >lodgers?
> > ...
> >The Black and White Lodges must also be "one in the same" I guess--
> >coexisting in the same place/time (whatever that is)?

Certainly not made all that clear, but I'd say that there were essentially
two waiting rooms, one for each lodge.  Perhaps this is all that one can
experience while still in corporeal form; one would have to abandon one's
physical body entirely to enter the Lodges themselves.  Coop ran back and
forth between them.  The MFAP and the Giant/SDC were there representing the
White Lodge, though I think we also saw a Black Lodge MFAP (gads, already the
details fade from memory... I am going to watch it again!).  Despite Hawk's
tale of it being necessary to defeat one's Black self in order to enter the
White Lodge, it would seem that there are Black and White versions of pretty
much everyone (a theme certainly in keeping with Lynch's cinematic vision).
(Or perhaps Coop's failure to best his doppelganger means he never even saw
the White Lodge or its waiting room, but I don't believe this interpretation.)

> >Was WE then simply lured by BOB to be used as bait for Cooper?  The
> >whole love/fear thing didn't make much sense.  Apparently, WE needed
> >Annie to pass through the gateway, but then Cooper didn't need a 2nd
> >person (soul) to pass through.
> >
> >What happened to all of the power WE was supposed to have after passing
> >through?  -- I guess WE was just set up by BOB to think he would gain
> >power.

Well, WE was all too fallible, and his understanding of the Black Lodge
incomplete, as was demonstrated quite effectively by his fate.  He may or
may not have "needed" Annie; we'll never know.  My interpretation was not
so much one of BOB manipulating WE, as BOB taking advantage of WE's own
predilections.  Just because a character/person is evil, doesn't mean that
person can't be overcome him/herself, by the very evil he/she embraces;
witness WE!

> >[and referring to my interpreting a petroglyph symbol near the circle of
> >trees as the Black & White Lodges]
> >I can see how you interpreted the symbol this way, but doesn't it look
> >more like a small well of water?

It's a little tough to make out on my desktop screen shot here, but I think
it looks about like this:
                        _________
                       /_________\
                      //=========\\
                      ||==========||
                      | __________ |
                      ||          ||
                       \\________//
                         ---------

Whew... that was tough, and still not very good.  Imagine each of the above
marks as diffuse white chalk on a blackboard.  Hence the top portion is
completely shaded in as white, and the lower portion is a doubly-ringed black
oval.  Doesn't really look like a well.  And it's not in the center of the
ring, but outside just to the left on the "map".  The Access Guide has a
good rendering of the petroglyph (even though it has a statement to the
effect that no cave markings were ever found or some such in the text?).

In response to Melanie Horn:
> >* Was anyone else very annoyed by the scene with the old man
> >  at the bank.. walking.. very.. slowly.. to.. wherever.. it..
> >  was.. he.. was.. going?  ARGH!  Especially since Coop was
> >  in the Lodge at the same time..

Not me!  I absolutely loved this scene.  I'm sure responses to it vary a lot,
but the pacing (pun intended) was fabulous.  The hesitations.  The obvious
lets-just-take-a-walk-to-sort-of-do-what-she-asks-to-figure-out-what-the-
hell-is-going-on-in-a-daze behavior is so damn human!  And so counter to
the slam bang action of most television drama that I found it positively
delicious!

And regarding the phallic deer... yep, my wife and I cracked up in almost
complete disbelief.  Slapstick horror... a whole new genre!

In response to Theresa Buchman:
> >... BOB waited until Cooper surrendered his soul to WE, (a BOB minion) then
> >dismissed WE and claimed the offered soul for himself.  This was the
> >permission that BOB needed to possess Coop. ...

Yes, this was one interpretation I mentioned in an earlier posting.  We've
had some suggestions that BOB requires his host to permit him in, and this
seems like a perfect "Invitation to Hate":-)  Of course it could also just
be a more diffuse:  due to Coop's fear or incomplete love his doppelganger
won out.  Maybe someday Lynch will give us his interpretation!

Also a big YES and PLEASE LET IT BE SO for Major Briggs and Annie in the
mystical realm of the two Lodges, with backup from Harry and Andy in the
physical realm, as the principals involved in saving Coops soul, by
rescuing the imprisoned good-Coop from the Black Lodge.  Briggs's belief
in love and Annie's embodiment of it make for most moving characters and
most powerful warriors on the side of good!  I'd sure like to see Albert
drawn into the conflict, too.

Umm, and... thanks for the donut!

In response to Joe Zitt:
> >The MFAP said that he'd show up again as someone else -- who?

I think he was referring to the fact the he also had a doppelganger.
And, contrary to James Mihaychuk and some others, I don't think the MFAP
is necessarily from the Black Lodge.  In fact, if I had to pick, I'd say
he was from the White Lodge, but, as we see in this final episode, it
appears that everyone has a dark side.  And I sure don't think that the
MFAP *is* BOB.  Course I could be wrong!

> >Seems like we were right in guessing that the Waiter and the Giant were
> >the same. What was with the coffee stunt?

Damn good question!  Maybe just an allegory for the multiple natures
inherent in everything and everyone.  People can be good and bad and
everything in between; coffee can be solid, liquid, and in between?
Dunno!

> >Was that Laura reflected in the coffee cup in the end titles?

Yes.

> >How did Coop know exactly when [the Log Lady would] show up at the sherrif's
> >office?

I just figured he had asked her to get that bottle of oil, and knew about
how long it would take her to retrieve it.

In response to Darragh Nagle:
> >I spotted that fake log in a second. It couldn't talk its way
> >out of a woodpile.

Hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee!!

> >The final credits:
> >I've been on the edge of my seat before, but upside down in
> >front of my TV? Whew! How many of you were with me?

Count me in!  And it *was* Laura!  Now what the hell did it mean?  Good and
bad Laura like liquid and solid coffee?  But what does that mean?  Probably
just another Lynchian symbol-sans-DIRECT-meaning.

In response to Mark Hessman:
> >... The way Coop reflexively 'attacked' Bob by butting his head into the
> >mirror seemed to indicate that Coop himself (the same Coop who asked
> >"How's Annie?" when he woke up, the human part of Coop that is still there
> >even though Bob is sitting atop his soul) saw Bob in the mirror and knew
> >who he was and what that meant.

Interesting interpretation.  I took the head-butting action to be BOB
demonstrating his complete control over Coop, in a manner similar to what
he did to Leland in the sheriff's office.  And the genuinely spooky
"How's Annie" repetition to be BOB's gleeful wallowing in the belief
that Coop's last non-BOB-controlled thoughts would have been better turned
to his own safety than to Annie's.  As someone else posted... yeah, you
saved Annie (for now), but you lost yourself (and the ability to protect
her ever again).

In response to Tom Sullivan:

I like "BooBer" 'cause it's the funniest, but "CooBob" is pretty good too! :-)

In complete agreement with Marci Swede:

> >Just enjoy it, it was fun even if there were cliffhangers.

Amen!  There's no way every loose end could be tied up.  I wouldn't want
them all tied up.  Twin Peaks lives on in our hearts and minds.

That said, there are a couple of things that I wish had been addressed...

One of my biggest outstanding mysteries is who the heck was the hooded figure
in the last few episodes.  That really looked all mystical and important, but
was completely ignored in the wrap-up.

And then, "What happened to Josie, Coop?"  (Though a half-hearted attempt at
answering this was given by Dale, if I remember right, when he told Harry
about her death, and stated that she had died of fright.)

Ah well, please come back in some form, Twin Peaks.
-- -larryy@apple.com "You wouldn't recognize a *subtle plan* if it painted itself purple, and danced naked upon a harpsichord, singing, 'Subtle Plans are Here Again'." - Edmund Blackadder

In article <1991Jun11.221007.25362@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> mjf@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Michael J Flory) writes:


> >  Beverages, potions, whatever, they're important in many myths.  When the 
> >  coffee froze, it seemed a logical result of the freezing of time.  But when 
> >  it turned viscous, it could have been time picking up steam again -- or was
> >  it oil?  The oil of the gods is _burnt_ -- as are the offerings to the gods.
> >  What would have happened if Coop had _drunk the oil?_

Well, when he was presented with the coffee all I could think of was
the myth of Persephone, who was abducted to the underworld and refused
to eat anything there until finally she accepted some pomegranate
seeds.  When she was eventually rescued, those seeds that she had
eaten caused her to have to go back there for part of every year.  I
was definitely hoping he wouldn't drink the coffee.  When it "froze" I
thought of the icy lake in the innermost circle of hell (according to
Dante).  Then when the Dwarf said "wow Bob wow", I thought it was
probably the director having fun with some special effects imagery.

> >  Or was it just pancake syrup? :)

That too.

Barb Miller

In article <1991Jun11.221007.25362@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> mjf@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Michael J Flory) writes:
> >jhawk@panix.uucp (John Hawkinson) comments:
> >Yes, a statue of _Venus._  Saturn and Jupiter are not alone in the current
> >planetary conjuction -- even in the smoggy skies off Manhattan we can see
> >that Venus is the brightest of the three... 
If you are seriously referring to the current planetary conjunction, I'm
pretty sure that it's Mars, Saturn, and Jupiter-- right?

Rocky Giovinazzo

In article <14953@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> alan@sun.UUCP (Alan Marr) writes:
> >The crybabies who are moaning on the net that Lynch/Frost did not spoon
> >fed them a TV pablum finale tied up in a pretty bow are a bunch of
> >wimps!
Crying?  Discussing unanswered questions isn't exactly crying.

Rocky Giovinazzo

In article <9106111945.AA09997@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> ST601287@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU (Mark Hessman) writes:


> >     I liked the scene where Windom was chastising Leo -- Windom's face just
> >got more and more devilish.  By the end of it he was looking almost as scary
> >as Bob.  But why wasn't he more surprised that Leo had done something in-
> >telligent?  And why didn't he arrange the tarantula trap so that it would
> >close on Leo much sooner than expected?  (i.e. tie the cord to the door, or
> >have a candle burning through it, etc)  If Leo's teeth are strong enough, he
> >could just stay there like that till he gets discovered...

Notice that WE held a bag ("I'll get you in my deathbag" springs to mind...


> >     Interesting that the scene in which Coop's hand shook was replayed
> >prior to the beginning of this episode -- it has more significance than
> >we know, perhaps?  Was part of Bob already in Coop, working on his dark
> >side?  Was that Coop's dark side testing its strength, its independence?

Someone posted that in the Autobiography of Cooper's, that his hand
shakes when evil? is around or something like that...


> >     Why were *Laura's* eyes glazed over?  (At least one of the Lauras...)
> >Did Bob wind up possessing her too?  I thought she died so that wouldn't
> >happen... but, well, there certainly seems to be at least one (relatively)
> >normal Laura lurking around the Lodge.

I think these were Dopplegangers, not the originals...


> >     How did Cooper's 'dark side' come into being?  And after Bob seemed to
> >allow him to go, too... that part was more whimsical than anything else.  Is
> >Bob the master of the Black Lodge, or just a character in it?  Why didn't we
> >get anyone really new inside such a heretofore unforeseen place?

Ditto.  ALso, perhaps it's the old idea that we all possess a shadow
side that must be integrated (delt with, whatever) in order to truly
come into our full power.  Thus, Cooper was facing his
(unsuccessfully, apparently).  Also, in the 2nd Star Wars (Empire
Strikes Back), when Luke, while training with Yoda, confronts HIS dark
self in the cave (Darth Vader which turns out to be Luke himself...).
Same idea!

> >     Cooper howling with Bob was glorious... and, of course, Coop looked much
> >stronger and active and, well, *human* then than he ever looked in the real
> >world.  His grin was almost refreshing.  It was good to see him
having fun.

He did seem MUCH more animated than before.  He was kindof LAME in
this "episode" otherwise (like NOT running to Annie's side when the
lites went out...).


> >...predictable but damn frightening.  The way Coop reflexively 'attacked' Bob
> >by butting his head into the mirror seemed to indicate that Coop himself
> >(the same Coop who asked "How's Annie?" when he woke up, the human part of
> >Coop that is still there even though Bob is sitting atop his soul) saw Bob
> >in the mirror and knew who he was and what that meant.  Is Coop now aware
> >that he is being possessed by Bob?  If he's aware of it, can he fight it?
> >Seems to me that unless Bob is always dominant in Coop (which would most
> >likely, well, be noticed around town ;-) ), when Coop's human side is in
> >control of his body he has a chance to do something.  So WILL HE????

Very good point.  Is "Cooper" still in there, or is he trapped in the
Black Lodge?????......Tom

larryy@Apple.COM (Larry Yaeger) writes:
> >  Audrey was far enough away to at least conceivably survive.

Maybe we'll see Audrey in a motor-driven wheelchair next time around,
whenever that is.

--
bvickers@ics.uci.edu | "Only a large-scale popular movement toward
brett@ucippro.bitnet |  decentralization and self-help can arrest the
                     |  present tendency toward statism." - Aldous Huxley

In article <1991Jun11.232029.20295@newsserver.sfu.ca> shephard@newsserver.sfu.ca (Gordon Shephard) writes:

> >
> >   In <14947@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> marc@porsche944.Eng.Sun.COM (Marc Schneider) writes:
> >
> >   > BTW- was it just me or were the way to many commercials durring the 
> >   >last episode. If ABC sold that much airtime to advertisers, it makes
> >   >you wonder why they ever canceled the show?
> >
> >   It was just you. :) Actually, I can remember one 24 minute period
> >   without a commercial.  We're just so in love with the show that every
> >   minute away is that much more painful.

And the sponsors were different.  Where were the Yuppie car
commercials?  A T & T?  All those sponsors whose presence between the
good stuff made you feel like you were rich, cultivated, and important
to be watching the show?  Actually, the hardest thing to take was the
"ABC movie" logos instead of Lucy telling us to go have a doughnut (we
had to think of getting one ourselves).  It just wasn't the same
experience at all.

Barb Miller

If the cave petroglyphs are so old, and they map out Twin Peaks, then
why does the map show the ring of trees which seemed quite young in
the final episode?  Also, any guesses as to whether it is Coop or his
doppleganger who escaped the BL and is now back in Twin Peaks?

In article <7070@vela.acs.oakland.edu> rjohnson@vela.acs.oakland.edu (R o d Johnson) writes:
> >In article <1991Jun11.222400.4615@risky.ecs.umass.edu> giovin@medr0.ecs.umass.edu (Rocky J Giovinazzo) writes:
>> >>In article <XH83HPG@cs.swarthmore.edu> pouncy@campus.swarthmore.edu writes:
> >
>>> >>>3.  Why are they calling the Black Lodge/White Lodge Glastonbury?
>>> >>>It's not an Indian name and it's certainly not a Tibetan name.
>> >>The name of the place where the gateway happens to be located is called
>> >>Glastonberry Grove.  This is also the location of the "power play" of
>> >>which I posted quite a lot of info on last week.  No one was calling the
>> >>lodges Glastonbury.
> >
> >Oh, yes, that's an enormous difference: Glastonberry vs. Glastonbury.
> >For many people those two sound exactly alike, and it's clearly not
> >coincidental.  Perhaps the Access people got it wrong, like they did
> >with so much else, or perhaps the Glastonberry is a deliberate
> >diddling of the spelling, a Twinpeakization, but it's no accident.
> >Cooper acknowledged the connection--why do you find it unlikely?
> >

I didn't mean to confuse things with the spelling difference and
actually didn't notice the spelling difference until your message.  I
don't know what the spelling of King Arthur's burial place is, but the
access guide spells the Twin Peaks version as Glastonberry Grove.  

The original question was why are they calling the lodges Glastonbury?
I answered by saying that they weren't.  Coop says, "Glastonberry, the
legendary burial place of King Arthur."  To me, this doesn't mean,
"Glastonberry Grove is the black and white lodge."  I think it simply
means that Glastonberry happens to be the location of the gateway to the
lodges.  I don't see anything more to it than this although the King
Arthur legend might lend some information as to why this might logically
be the entrance.

Rocky Giovinazzo

In article <7074@vela.acs.oakland.edu> rjohnson@vela.acs.oakland.edu (R o d Johnson) writes:
> >In article <1991Jun11.233019.6654@risky.ecs.umass.edu> giovin@medr0.ecs.umass.edu (Rocky J Giovinazzo) writes:
> >
>> >>P.S. Coincidentally, the Star Trek, the Next Generation episode aired
>> >>today in my area was centered on 2 characters who were shape-changers
>> >>(i.e. dopplegangers).
> >
> >How's that?  Why are dopplegangers shape-changers?

Although my dictionary doesn't have define doppleganger, my understanding of 
the definition of a doppleganger was a creature/being that could change its 
shape.  For example, it could make itself have the face and body of any other
creature.  

Although from the previous postings, some people seem to have different 
interpretations, there was evidence of this in the 6/10 
episode.  When the glazed-eyed-Laura first screams, flashes
of the face of WE come to the screen.  Later we find that 
someone/thing that looks like Annie changes to Caroline and to
Laura and also WE.  Possibly, this was just WE changing his appearance
tantalizing Cooper.  Of course, the scene was so confusing (i.e. Annie
saying that she knows who killed her and then saying to Cooper, "You
must be mistaken." <- what the heck does that mean?) that this isn't
completely clear.

Rocky Giovinazzo

In article <53901@apple.Apple.COM> larryy@Apple.COM (Larry Yaeger) writes:
>> >>[and referring to my interpreting a petroglyph symbol near the circle of
>> >>trees as the Black & White Lodges]
>> >>I can see how you interpreted the symbol this way, but doesn't it look
>> >>more like a small well of water?
> >
[drawing and other stuff deleted]
> >Whew... that was tough, and still not very good.  Imagine each of the above
> >marks as diffuse white chalk on a blackboard.  Hence the top portion is
> >completely shaded in as white, and the lower portion is a doubly-ringed black
> >oval.  Doesn't really look like a well.  And it's not in the center of the
> >ring, but outside just to the left on the "map".  The Access Guide has a
> >good rendering of the petroglyph (even though it has a statement to the
> >effect that no cave markings were ever found or some such in the text?).
Your drawing looks different from the one I'm talking about.
I was referring to the symbol directly to the left of the circle of
trees.  This drawing has the top portion shaded black and the other two
sections with no shading (white).  The separation between the regions is
in a wavy form (i.e. water) and the sides turn up like the sides of a
deep puddle or small (tiny) body of water.  Is this the symbol you mean?
Either way, I think that the map clearly marks the lodges as being above
the circle of trees.  There is a wavy line like a curtain with a dot in
each wave.  Above this are the LMFAP and the giant along with a large
colored circle and three other symbols.

By "a dot in each wave" I mean something like this:
./\. /\. /\. /\. /\. /\  
/. \/. \/. \/. \/. \/. \

Rocky Giovinazzo

I think that the way BOB/BL defeated Dale was to make him doubt his love
for Annie. The "wound" he had was the lingering memory of his first 
tragic love affair with Mrs. Earle. By confusing the images of Annie and
the late Mrs. Earle in Dale's mind, BOB/BL was able to counter the power
of love that allowed Cooper to enter the BL/WL dimension in the first 
place. 
 
  Another thing... what (if any) significance is there in the amount of
head wounds in TP? In this last two hour movie alone, there was:
1. Major Briggs' cut.
2. Nadine and Mike's noggin hits.
3. Ben Horne's head wound.
4. Doppleganger Dale's (DD?) self-infliced head wound.

... also, poor Leland's death wound.



FREE D.B. COOPER!!! FREE D.B. COOPER!!! FREE D.B. COOPER!!!

In article <109772@sgi.sgi.com> sjohnson@texas.vlsi.sgi.com (Scott Johnson) writes:
> >Did anyone else notice the paleness of all of the characters at the
> >beginning?  Especially Windom when he first appears.  It looked like
> >he'd been rolling in the flour.  And when he smiled, I thought his
> >teeth were black.  Am I going crazy?  

You're not crazy.

When the show started, I thought that the black teeth deal meant that WE
had already been to the black lodge.  But then later, he was shown
listening to Coop & Truman talk about getting to the lodge.  So really,
the black teeth don't make any sense to me unless WE was somehow 
"naturally" taking on these characteristics perhaps in a way similar
to Leland's hair turning white?

Either that or he was experimenting with his make-up kit while he tried
to decide whether to disguise himself as Margaret or an evil Pillsbury 
dough boy.

Rocky Giovinazzo

Well, as the subject header states, has there been any recent news on
this?  Would Columbia House Video be willing to adopt the series onto
videotape (like "ST:TNG", etc.)?  I'm sure that there'd be enough
fans/curious people out there who would purchase the tapes.  Thanks.


--Jeff "Koganuts" Koga

What a bunch of crybabies!!!
 
       WAH!!!  I wanna know what Bob is!
       WAH!!!  Lynch didn't tie up all the loose ends!
       WAH!!!  I didn't understand it!
       WAH!!!  Captain Ahab didn't kill Moby Dick!
       WAH!!!  I don't know why Gregor Samsa turned into a bug!
       WAH!!!  The castaways didn't get rescued from Gilligan's Island!
 
Give me a break!  Those who wanted answers out of the finale have
never caught on to the beauty of Lynch's art.  Lynch has never tried
to provide any answers in his work, from Eraserhead on to Twin Peaks. 
What he does, and does wonderfully enough to keep me tuning in to
Twin Peaks for these many months, is ask questions.  Great questions. 
Big questions.  All great literature, great works of art, are like
that.  Pat answers are for those who can't face the ambiguity of
truth.  There are many correct answers, correct interpretations.  The
fun lies in coming up with them.  Those who've posted that they're
angry with the show are missing out on the fun.
 
That said (and sorry about the flamishness), there are a few points
about the White Lodge/Black Lodge that seem to be in dispute.
Spoilers to follow:

 
I was under the impression that there were, in fact, two rooms that
Coop was walking between, one the White Lodge and the other the Black
Lodge.  It looked like some of the folks Coop encountered only showed
up in one and some only in the other.  A definative list would be
helpful, but it seemed that the dwarf, the giant, the bellhop, and
Laura Palmer appeared only in the first room.  Bob, Maddie, Windham
Earle, and maybe Caroline and Annie, appeared only in the second. 
I've been trying to puzzle out which is the White Lodge and which the
Black Lodge.  I believe that the giant is a White Lodger and Windham
should be a Black Lodger.  What has me stumped is that the screaming
Laura doesn't seem to be a White Lodge sorta character, but Bob
*certainly* is a Black Lodger.  Any ideas?
 
I don't take the dwarf's statement that "This is the Waiting Room."
to mean that it wasn't the lodge itself, as some seem to.  Also, it
sounded like both lodges have the same entrance, with love being the
key to the White Lodge and fear to the Black Lodge.  This contradicts
the story Hawk told of having to pass through the Black Lodge in
order to enter the White Lodge, but the Indian folklore may have
gotten details like this wrong after centuries of retelling.
 
I noticed that, just before Coop and Annie re-appeared in Glastonbury
Circle, one of the Coops caught the other one in one of the red
rooms.  I hope this meant the the Coop who reappeared is a
conglomerate of the two, doing internal spritual battle for control. 
That would explain why Coop (the good one) smashes his head against
the mirror on realizing that he is harboring Bob.
 
I hope the movie/books/more episodes come along soon.  It's been a
great ride so far.
-- | Ron Sires: rsires@well.sf.ca.us (NetMail) | | | | Currently seeking position programming in C, dBASE, Clipper under MS-DOS | | in the San Francisco Area. Please send email if you can help. Thanks! |

In article <544@wybbs.mi.org> meyers@wybbs.mi.org (John Meyers) writes:
> >My gripe list:
[...]
> >  Oh, surprise, surprise. Nadine gets her memory back by a blow to the head.
> >The cure-all for anybody with memory problems, used in every stupid sitcom
> >ever made. I suppose to could be argued that in using this method, the writers
> >were simply casting light on the stupidity for other shows using it. DON'T
> >BELIEVE THAT FOR A SECOND! :-)

I won't argue that, but I will argue that it was not simply a blow to
the head.  We first saw Nadine start to recover when she realized that
she could not see out of her right eye.  Then, she seemed very strange
when Ed told her that he and Norma were getting married.  I think that,
just as it was an emotional crisis (and pills) that made her imagine she
was younger (and, btw, this was not necessarily "amnesia," as I
understand it - she didn't forget so much as take on a different age and
life - note that she didn't have *any* trouble with "progress"), it was
the emotional strain of losing Ed that made her start to remember.

Muffy

In article <1991Jun11.212151.13961@panix.uucp> jhawk@panix.uucp (John Hawkinson) writes:
> >
> >Don't forget there must be rooms on the periphery of those other rooms (we
> >see Laura & everybody else coming in from a diff. entrance than Coop, right?).

Well, some people do enter through folds in the curtains, but some just fade in
and out.  It's all allegorical anyway, but I suspect that the other beings
making the entrances and exits are typically coming and going from the
Lodges to the waiting room(s).  If it was all that consistent, however, and
this was the intention, then Windom probably shouldn't have been able to
come and go, as, until BOB does his thing to him, he is still ostensibly
as corporeal as Coop (and so, shouldn't have full access to the Lodges yet).
Same with Annie.  But then space and time may not be all that linear at the
border between worlds.
-- -larryy@apple.com "You wouldn't recognize a *subtle plan* if it painted itself purple, and danced naked upon a harpsichord, singing, 'Subtle Plans are Here Again'." - Edmund Blackadder

In <14947@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> marc@porsche944.Eng.Sun.COM (Marc Schneider) writes:

> > BTW- was it just me or were the way to many commercials durring the 

That's funny, while I was taping, I noticed that there seemed to be more
show per hour than the usual network average esp. in the first hour or so, 
and commented, "Gee, they must not have sold the ad space". I also thought 
there were more PSA's than usual, too. Ooo, a difference in time perception,
how Peaks...

On a completely different subject, I have seen TMFAP myself! Really! Eating
lunch in the employees' cafeteria at Universal Studios (Damn mediocre java).
He was accompanied by two attractive young women (Laura? Maddy? Annie?). I
wonder what this means.

Sally
I did look twice at my toothpaste this morning...



-- Sally Smith (415)790-0608 | ...!uunet!olivea!tymix!tardis!sally sally@tardis.tymnet.com | I'm unemployed--these opinions *must* be mine!

I think the bright circle in Glastonbury Circle was around a pool of
that oil.  When Cooper looked into it, before he entered the Red Room, 
he said, "An opening to a gateway...", the same as what the Log Lady 
said about the jar of oil.
-- | Ron Sires: rsires@well.sf.ca.us (NetMail) | | | | Currently seeking position programming in C, dBASE, Clipper under MS-DOS | | in the San Francisco Area. Please send email if you can help. Thanks! |

First off, I thought the red room sequences dragged NOT the 
bank teller sequence which I loved. The only portion of the Red Room
(RR? RR diner?) sequence I thought dragged was when Coop was wandering
back and forth (wrong way) to no apparent purpose.
We cannot assume Audrey and Pete are dead. (though they aren't likely
to be feeling so hot) And there is NO reason to think Ben dead. Jeez, he 
just hit his head-- I mean he's still moving fer crissake.
Bob/Coop is saying "how's Annie" as a parody of his acting like
Coop. As in: Hah that goodie-goodie Cooper, to act like him I have
to say stupid (and ironic) things like "how's Annie" so I can stay free
to kill again.
Never forget that TP is first and foremost a SOAP OPERA just
like Invitation to Love. Thus the Tarantulas are leathal even though
real Tarantulas almost never are (and probably wouldn't bite Leo anyway).
-- Tom Van Horne

Heh heh.  I am amused.

-- Jason Gross Comp Sci Ugrad University of Miami Class of '91 (?) =========================================================================== Hey, wanna save the world? | Got sumtin' to say? gross@umiami.bitnet Nuke a Godless, Communist, | Pick and choose! gross@umiami.ir.miami.edu gay whale for Christ. | gross@miavax.ir.miami.edu - Anonymous | jgross@umbio.med.miami.edu =========================================================================== The University of Miami has a lovely fountain.

Here is a copy of the recent letter from COOP (Citizens Opposing the 
Offing of Peaks):

June 5, 1991

Dear COOP member:

As you are surely well aware, ABC's fall line up was announced late last month.
Painfully absent from the schedule was Twin Peaks, network television's sole
creative exercise.  However, it is not time to mourn the death of Agent
Cooper--not yet.

Unfortunately, Lynch/Frost has exhausted all options in their attempt to keep
Peaks on the air in forthcoming seasons.  ABC-TV dropped the ball, and no other
network stepped forward to pick up the financial slack.  Without the proper
investment, the production company did not want to drastically cut back on
quality just to put out the show on TV.

David Lynch has assured both of us that the antics of the small northwestern
logging town will live on.  Where, they are not quite certain yet, but Peaks
could be destined for the movie houses.  Lynch/Frost will have more information
in a few weeks, and promises COOP members will be among the first to know the
details.  We all know just what Lynch is capable of on the big screen, so there
is a ray of hope on the horizon.  Hopefully, we in COOP can all be of help.

Please note the change in address for The Great Northern.  Direct all
correspondence to the new Lee Highway venue for COOP.  Next, please take a
moment today to jot down a few names and addresses of your friends who are
Twin Peaks fans and drop them in the mail to us.  We need to get as many people
involved in our effort to support the work of Lynch/Frost Productions as
possible.  We need your input.

We would also like to express our thanks to Star Pics, the makers of the Twin
Peaks Collectible CardArt, for paying for the stamps, envelopes, and
photocopying for this mailing.  It was time for us to contact you and bring you
up to date, but we literally had no money.  Many of you asked us how to find
these rarities, so check the enclosed flyer.  According to David Lynch, "The
cards are mighty cool." [see previous posting for info on the cards]

Your work and dedication to creativity brought back Twin Peaks from the first
hiatus.  Your dissatisfaction with typical TV fare is well known; we have
really made a difference.  Our voices were heard from New York to Hollywood.
We cannot thank each one of you enough.

So, stay tuned.  When we hear anything, you will be the first to know.

Sincerely,

Keith (Poston, National COOP President)
& Michael (Caputo, National COOP Director)

COOP
The Great Northern
4201 North Lee Highway, Suite 805
Arlington, VA  22207

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There's no sense in being precise when  | Jim Pellmann (jpellmann@rational.com)
you don't even know what you're talking | RATIONAL
about.     --- John von Neumann         | Santa Clara, California

In article <1991Jun11.191815.27860@indetech.com> lzs@indetech.com (Lynn Z. Schneider x2077) writes:

> >The whole show just annoyed me. The drawn-out scene in the bank was a time
> >waster. And all those minutes of Coop running in and out of red rooms was
> >dizzying and annoying. Laura Palmer's screaming was unnerving and cloying. 
> >And Naedine getting clunked on the head and regaining her memory was so 
> >predictable. 

You know, the more stuff like this I read, the better I feel about the
show.  If this person disliked it, it must have *something* going for
it. 

> >I consider last
> >night's show an insult.

A deserved one, if you ask me.

-- Rod Johnson * rjohnson@vela.acs.oakland.edu * (313) 650 2315 "All wax is wedding wax" --Gertrude Stein

Ok-- how many think Fiona Oceanstar is really working for Lynch/Frost
Productions?  First we find out that she's writing for the Gazette.  A
sure sign that she's an "insider" in the world of TP.  No mortal could
actually come up with an acceptable TP article, right?  

Then she starts talking about this crazy alleged Rolling Stone article.  Yeah,
right.  She asks us all kinds of questions about theories behind TP and
how we think it might end / should end.  So what happens?  Some
brilliant net creature comes up with a good outline of the WE vs. Cooper
plot tied in with Annie and ends it with a
Coop-sees-BOB-in-the-mirror-of-his-hotel-room scene, and the next thing
we know, the 6/10 episode roughly follows the same plot.  

What happened to the article?  Yeah, sure she got sick-- What really
happened is that L/F wanted to get a feel for us fans' understanding of
the show and find a suitable ending.  All part of the master plan, right
Fiona?  Or should I say, Mr. Frost (which can found scrambled in your
name.)  Who ever heard of a name like Fiona Oceanstar anyway?  (or Rocky
Giovinazzo for that matter).  Purely theatrical.  We're onto you now.
Since the truth is out, you're going to have to come up with some good
answers.  We want facts!  When is the movie coming out and is
TP-on-pay-cable out of the question yet?

big-smiley-face-ly yours,
Rocky Giovinazzo
So

In article <4cJGs0600Uzx42eUwn@andrew.cmu.edu>, ms5h+@andrew.cmu.edu (Marci Swede) writes...
> > 
> >Someone (i forgot which post--sorry!) suggested that catherine got to
> >the safety deposit box first and placed the bomb.  This seems possible
> >for two reasons:
> > 



Wasn't the note in the Safety deposit box signed by Catherine ???

There you go, she removed whatever WAS in there and planted the bomb. (I 
really don't think killing her brother is *that* far beyond Catherine)!


-----------------

   One word sums up probably the responsibility of any Vice President,
   and that one word is 'to be prepared.'

                            --- Vice President Dan Quayle
-----------------

In article <1991Jun11.171334.11904@panix.uucp>, jhawk@panix.uucp (John Hawkinson) writes...
> >One little anomaly I noticed in the Black (/white?) Lodge scene last night:
> >  After Cooper has gone from room to room a couple times, the statue which is
> >in the hallway dissapears. Any comments?
> >-- 
> > 

I thought that was a lame attempt to try to convince us thet he was passing 
through DIFFERENT corridors (perhaps trying to give the impression of a 
maze).

-----------------

   One word sums up probably the responsibility of any Vice President,
   and that one word is 'to be prepared.'

                            --- Vice President Dan Quayle
-----------------

In article <6073@lectroid.sw.stratus.com>, cdt@sw.stratus.com (Chris Tavares) writes...
> >In article <CMM.0.90.2.676613228.tvanhorn@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, tvanhorn@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Thomas F Van Horne) writes:
> > 
>> >> Alternatively, the Leland evil form existed as a seperate entity in
>> >> the black Lodge and was obviously kin to the evil Dale form. Perhaps
>> >> this is the Lodge's representation of possession by Bob.
> > 
> >Hawk said that your spirit had to visit the Black Lodge and overcome your
> >evil self before it could proceed to the White Lodge.  Sounds like everyone
> >has an evil self in the Black Lodge; you don't have to be possessed by BOB.
> >-- 

Perhaps BoB was the catalyst for sending the evil self into this world.  
He may be trying to "trick" the good people of this world to provide a way 
for their evil selfs to replace them. He may be trying to widen his control 
over this world (he seems rather power-hungry) by replacing the good people 
with their evil sides.


-----------------

   One word sums up probably the responsibility of any Vice President,
   and that one word is 'to be prepared.'

                            --- Vice President Dan Quayle
-----------------

In article <544@wybbs.mi.org>, meyers@wybbs.mi.org (John Meyers) writes...
> >[Yet another person posting thoughts about the final episode. But these are
> > good ones. ;-)]
> > 

[stuff deleted]

> > 
> >   Okay, the ending. If this were a cliffhanger, it would be great ending.
> >We would be spellbound all summer, waiting to find out what happens. But
> >assuming Lynch knew that the show was over by this time...
> > 
> >.... IT WOULD BE AN EVEN BETTER ENDING! When Coop was in bed and was told 
> >Annie was Ok, I thought "oh boy, another wishy-washy ending. How predictable."
> >Of course, just seeing that Coop was near a mirror was enough to give the
> >secret away, but not the ending. I'm sorry if you don't agree with me, but
> >doesn't it get boring when everything concludes with a happy ending? Now we
> >are left to our imagination on a world with an evil Cooper. Mind boggling...
> > 


ok how's this for an ending....

Coop and Annie in bed.

Annie: "I'm so tired...I feel like I've been through the worst dream in my 
life.."

Coop: "Everything's fine now. It all works out in the end."

Camera pans to mirror over dresser. We see Coop and Annie lying in bed.  
Copp slowly raiser up and looks directly into the mirror.

Cut to close up of Coops face..slowly a BoB-like grin comes across his face.


credits.

-----------------

   One word sums up probably the responsibility of any Vice President,
   and that one word is 'to be prepared.'

                            --- Vice President Dan Quayle
-----------------

In article <1991Jun11.232312.22682@resmel.bhp.com.au> craigb@merlin.resmel.bhp.com.au (Craig Blundell) writes:
>From article <1991Jun11.091309.7543@topaz.ucq.edu.au>, by johnsonc@topaz.ucq.edu.au:
>> >> In article <1991Jun10.031303.12118@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>, edb134t@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (Daniel Bowen) writes:
>>> >>> Something I don't think I've seen people mention, which I noticed
>>> >>> when watching the dream sequence (not the flashback to it) after
>>> >>> seeing a few episodes...  Laura makes the Bookhouse Boys signal
>>> >>> to Cooper..

NO SHE DOESN'T!  This may seem like nit-picking, but the Bookhouse
Boys kinda scrape from their temple to halfway down their jaw(s),
while in the dream sequence (original - NOT in any flashbacks) Laura
does that "whole finger scrapes from base of nose to tip", whereas the
BB only touch the tip of their fingers to their faces/heads.

Really.  Go back and look it up. ;)

I remain,
-- --------------------------------------------------------------------- jsnyder@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | If we took the bones out, it wouldn't ---------------------------| be crunchy, would it? - MPFC

If BOB who lives in the BL can posess people, why hasn't anyone(?)
from the WL done the same?  Who lives in the WL?  Mike?  The log
lady's husband?

If there is such a thing as an anti-Cooper, imagine how bad he'd be.
Cooper is one of the most pure of spirit, genuinely good, psychically
talented people in town (which is why the BL was after him)  Just begin
to imagine what a diametrically opposite being would be like...
To me, this is a reasonable reason to stop TP now.  An anti-Cooper
is going to be able to rip the place apart...  "I will kill again".  Brrr...

?einnA s'woH  ?einnA s'woH
-- Pete_Bob Apple Sequent Computer Systems petebob@sequent.com, sequent!petebob 15450 S.W. Koll Parkway Bob is not just a name.. Beaverton, Oregon 97006 It's a way of life.. (503) 626-5700

In article <1991Jun11.232029.20295@newsserver.sfu.ca>, 
shephard@newsserver.sfu.ca (Gordon Shephard) writes:

   It was just you. :) Actually, I can remember one 24 minute period
   without a commercial.  We're just so in love with the show that every
   minute away is that much more painful.

Showing the first half hour or so without commercials is pretty much
standard operating procedure for a TV-movie.  Hook in the mindless
schmucks and make sure they watch the whole thing.

Oh, BTW, I was glad to see that the population on "Twin Peaks" sign in
the opening credits continued to decline.


--
David G. PaschichOpen Computing FacilityUC Berkeley
dpassage@ocf.berkeley.edu
"But I'd rather be a fish, 'cause a fish is an animal" -- Gener Fox

While watching, I assumed that every time Cooper crossed the hallway,
he was entering a different Red Room.  Sort of like the all-alike and
all-different mazes in Colossal Cave Adventure.  This seemed to be
confirmed for me at the end, when Cooper runs through all the rooms he
had visited before, with the anti-Cooper chasing him, before he
reaches the Glastonbury Portal.
--
Stewart M. ClamenInternet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
School of Computer ScienceUUCP:      uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
Carnegie Mellon UniversityPhone:      +1 412 268 3620
Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890, USAFax:     +1 412 268 1793

In article <6425@ns-mx.uiowa.edu> czahrt@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu (Robert D. Cappel...you can call me The Bob) writes:
> >Well...what do I say?  David Lynch is NOT God.  'He's jus zis guy, y'know!'

Thanks.  Get back to your OWN personal brain specialist!  ;)

> >Cooper faced his confrontation with the Black Lodge with imperfect 
> >courage.  He forgot to face evil and fear with love.  His previous comments
> >to Agent Roger Hardy (the FBI agent played by Clarence Williams III) that
> >he is looking 'beyond the board...looking at the world with love' exemplified
> >this philosophy.  But in the true test, Cooper failed.  
> >
> >Why?
> >
> >He did not save Windom Earle from BOB.  (Gathering thoughts here...)
> >Cooper loved Annie, and she was the focus of his love, but in order to 
> >truly love, to look at the world with love, you must ALSO love your enemies.
> >In failing to save Windom, Cooper could not save himself...hence...being
> >possesed by BOB.

Nice theory - I like it.  Maybe I'll try to work it in...

> >Since Major Briggs APPARENTLY passed his test (facing the Black Lodge and
> >reaching the White Lodge as he said previously that he believed this 
> >is what happened to him during his dissapearance?), he is the logical
> >choice to go in after Cooper's good self (assuming BOB is in control of
> >Cooper's evil doppleganger.).

Suppose...maybe the Major is *just* as posessed as Coop...
Anyone want to follow up on that idea?  Perhaps the message Sarah
Palmer delivered to him was one of "OK, time for you to begin Phase III
of operation 'Life-Force-Sucking-Owls' - go after the Log Lady..."

C'mon!  This has to be worth something!

> >PS.  By the way....'How's Annie?'

Recuperating in the hospital, apparently...

I remain,
-- --------------------------------------------------------------------- jsnyder@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | If we took the bones out, it wouldn't ---------------------------| be crunchy, would it? - MPFC

In article <20450@sdcc6.ucsd.edu>, mhorn@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Melanie M. Horn) 
writes:
> >   No way.. Doc H cant have it in him.  And him at Great Northern
> >   so suddenly?  Nope, sorry, not buying it..

This has been mentioned before. I agree with the first statement, but I don't
agree that it was all that sudden that he showed up at the GN. Remember 
Sherrif Truman saying to Andy, "He's been in there for 10 hours..." or 
something like that. And then it was quite a long while after that (judging
by Harry's appearance) when Coop and Annie suddenly showed up. I don't recall
exactly when in the sequence of events the scene at the Hayward's occurred,
but it could've been several hours before Doc was with Coop. And, as someone
else mentioned, we don't know for certain Ben is dead. He was still moving.

> > * Did it occur to anyone else that Lucy was doing some pretty 
> >   fancy stunts (including that split) for a lady who was 
> >   pregnant?

She's only been pregnant for a week or two.

> > * The scene with Cooper and BOB staring at each other in the
> >   mirror and Coopers Hows Annie?  was incredible.. If it had
> >   to happen, MacLachlan sure did do a good job.  He did a 
> >   complete turnaround from his usual Jo e Friday.

Agreed.

-- Tim Calvert BITNET: tim@marshall Marshall University Internet: tim@marshall.wvnet.edu Huntington, WV Phone: (304)696-3210 FAX: (304)696-3601

In article <1991Jun11.030629.21297@wpi.WPI.EDU>, meep@wpi.WPI.EDU (The Cutter) writes:
> > Sorry...had to get that out of my system...I've been wanting to scream all
> > night.
> > 
> > Not that I didn't like it.  I LOVED it.  There really was no other way to end
> > it, IMHO.  It's just that David Lynch (quite intentionally) makes me VERY
> > VERY VERY NERVOUS.
> > 
> > Comments/suggestions/threats?
> > 
> > doug

In the UK we were told(by the BBC announcer) that the last episode is
next week. Surely its the same in the US?

We have caught up with US and last nights episode saw Annie go bye bye!!

Comments???

Lorraine

In article <6076@lectroid.sw.stratus.com>, cdt@sw.stratus.com (Chris Tavares) wr
:In article <20450@sdcc6.ucsd.edu>, mhorn@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Melanie M. Horn) writ
:> * If the Log Ladys husband knew about the oil, did he know
:>   about the Lodge itself?
:
:Hey, what WAS the point about the oil?  Coop didn't have it with him
: when he went to the Lodge, so even that part about it being a "gateway"
: was a throwaway...?!
:

A friend pointed out that the oil was quite valuable.  Coop and Harry
were trying to verify where WE and Annie were.  Log Lady brings the
oil, tying it to the gateway.  Next, Ronda ties the smell of the oil to
Leland/Bob.  Finally, Hawk ties Leland/Bob/Laura/Ronda to the circle
of trees - end of use for the oil.

Thanks Scott - you are great!
--
Larry W. Virden                 UUCP: osu-cis!chemabs!lwv27
Same Mbox: BITNET: lwv27@cas    INET: lwv27%cas.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.Edu
Personal: 674 Falls Place,   Reynoldsburg,OH 43068-1614
America Online: lvirden

Anyone have official references (ie not - "I read somewhere") as to
where the footage in the 2 hr movie came from?  I keep hearing folks
say that they were filmed before TP was cancelled, that they were
plotted before, etc.  I dont have a problem believing that - but I
am searching for some REASON to believe that, given that by
Jan or Feb everyone knew TP was in trouble.
--
Larry W. Virden                 UUCP: osu-cis!chemabs!lwv27
Same Mbox: BITNET: lwv27@cas    INET: lwv27%cas.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.Edu
Personal: 674 Falls Place,   Reynoldsburg,OH 43068-1614
America Online: lvirden

I can't see how anybody is saying that the people in the bank are alive.  The
bomb in the vault in the basement blew out the windows (rather violently) on th
e
street level of the bank.  That had to have been on werid explosion to do all
that damage an NOT kill Pete and Audrey...

My wife and I took a second look at the finale again last night, and the
contrast between the two directorial styles is amazing.  Hunter's
episode is mainly plot-advancement and silliness (like the Miss Twin
Peaks contest), with a few jokes thrown in like the deer.  Knowing the
plot, we fast-forwarded over most of it.  But Lynch's episode is
fascinating on second viewing -- almost everything there stands up the
second time around.

I believe that this episode was originally filmed as a "happy ending"
completing the Twin Peaks series, and then re-edited, possibly with
additional filming (the only additional bits, I think, were the final
two scenes and the explosion in the vault), once Lynch had decided to
make a Twin Peaks movie; I think Lynch had a limited budget or time to
re-edit the film, hence the inclusion of doubtful scenes.  The scene
with Nora and Big Ed happily kissing while Nadine and Mike are bandaged
is totally out of place considering her sister was just kidnapped; also,
the dialogue from that scene does not fit -- Mike says he was hit by a
tree, and there were no trees around hitting people in the previous
scenes.  Ditto the later scene with Bobby and Shelley -- they are very
happy, and repeat the dialogue from the pilot almost word for word,
almost suggesting "life in Twin Peaks returns to normal" following the
defeat of Evil -- but Evil has not been defeated, Shelley's friend has
just been kidnapped by a murder.  There's no way Shelley should be
acting like that.  Either the direction is terribly wrong (and Lynch
would not make a mistake like that) or the scenes were filmed with
something else in mind.  Similarly, the final confrontation between Doc
Hayward and Ben, where he apparently kills Ben, is followed later by the
recovery of CooBob attended by Hayward and Truman, and Hayward is his
usual self,  Just doesn't make sense.  Also the scene with the Log Lady
and the oil doesn't make sense since the oil is not used again and it
hasn't been established that Coop expects the Log Lady to show up.

The original plot was probably something like: Coop uses the Log Lady's
oil to gain access to the Black Lodge before Windom Earle; he confronts
his doppelganger, and defeats WE, saving Annie; he then leaves Twin
Peaks with Annie, and life returns to normal.

I think that Lynch changed the final episode to kill off all the plot
lines he could not sustain in the movie.  Hence the deaths of Pete,
Andrew, and probably Audrey (Pete and Andrew are definitely out of it,
you see the flash of the explosion in their faces standing before the
safe deposit box), the inclusion of the scene "resolving" the Nadine/Big
Ed plot, the flash to Leo in the woods -- implying he's going to die
without having to film a scene of him dying, and the murder of Ben Horne
even though it doesn't make sense in the context of the later scene.

BTW, Bob may have made a great Leland, but he doesn't make much of a
Coop.  His "I wasn't sleeping" is pretty un-Cooperish, and he repeats "I
have to brush my teeth" in an odd way.  This in addition to the "How's
Annie" Truman and Hayward must have heard from the bathroom.

-- J

In article <1991Jun11.172628.5331@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, brackney@author.ecn.purdue.edu (Larry J Brackney) writes:

> >   As for Coop's present situation.  The LMFAP did say "doppleganger"
> > before WE, BOB and the evil Coop appeared.  My feeling is that Dale
> > is trapped in the Black Lodge, while his doppleganger is free to
> > roam the material plane.  I think it will be up to the Major (and
> > Annie?) to rescue him.  (I also think Truman is not up to the task.)
> > 

I agree that Coop is trapped in the Lodge and his doppleganger is roaming
the material world.  As for his rescue, I think that Albert is the likely
choice (with the Major's help).  If the way to overcome evil is through love,
Albert will be the one to do it.  Albert has said his philosophy of life
is based on love (remember the "...Sheriff Truman, I love you." scene?).

The blast we see left a tiny box, traveled THROUGH the vault and
Audrey, out through the anteroom to the vault (which had no windows),
took a sharp left, and blew out all the furniture and windows of the bank.
That was some good strong stuff.  That kind of force would have ripped
Audrey appart.

But, Lynch sometimes doesn't care about "reality", so its possible Audrey
will be back in a wheelchair (in the mythical TP:TMP).

-- +-----------------------------------------------------+ | Hi Tech Howie "Nature Rewards Arrogance" | | "Fortune Favors "No particular hurry, Officer, | | the Bold" why do you ask?" | +-- Howard_Ship@vos.stratus.com --------------------+

"We're here in front of world-famous Maurice's Cafe and Deli in
 downtown Pittsburg.  Today, we've replaced the fine coffee they
 usually serve with dark, sparkling Black Lodge Coffee.  Let's
 see what people think."


"Black Lodge Coffee?  I can't believe it!  It tastes so...
 so...so...EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!"

"Coffee?  Coffee.  Coffee!  Coffee."

"Oh!  Is that why it's so good?  It certainly is a step up
 from Maurice's usual General Foods International Coffee crap!"

"Who's the midget?"


"Well, that proves it folks.  Black Lodge Coffee - fine enough to be
served in the world's (or at least Pittsburg's) finest restaurants."

-------
Erick S. Dyke -- GE Simulation & Control Systems
dyke @ lakevuew.dab.ge.com
"GE Aerospace -- We make the BEST video games in the world"

SPOILERS**  Of course.



Maybe Lynch does read this news group.  That was all I thought of when
the last scene came on.  As soon as I heard, 'I've got to brush my 
teeth', I knew what was coming.

Cooper screwed up again.  He didn't listen to the Giant for the second
time.  He was warned, he didn't listen.

I was bummed to see our hero fall.  I really hoped Lynch/Frost would 
think up something more original for the ending.

IMHO, Cooper and the BOB/Coop are one and the same.  His double caught
up with him in the Lodge.  They are both in the bathroom brushing their
teeth (well gee, kinda, sorta).  The key will be to extract BOB/Coop from 
Cooper.  I guess he has to wait 25 year until the Lodge is open again. (?)

It's just too depressing to have to leave Twin Peaks thinking that there
aren't any good guys.  What a pessimistic view of the world!

--Cool Bean 
-- **This is not cultural.

I am very much in favor of transmuting a.t.t-p into 
alt.fan.david-lynch, but I don't think that we need
restrict our discourse to the great man himself.  We
can also talk about artists who work in much the same vein--
filmmakers, novelists, etc., who write about the weird,
thhorrible, and the sublime, with a similar commitment
to style.  Katherine Dunn's _Geek_Love_, for example,
was discussed in this group a few weeks back--most aptly,
in my opinion.

--Fiona

Last night I sat through the 2 hour Twin Peaks finale again (sans commercials)
and have to say that I enjoyed it even more than the first night.  I was much
more relaxed and able to view it without the tense feeling I had previously.

A few comments and questions:

1)  What was the deal with WE's face at the beginning?  White with black teeth?

2)  After Nadine's slide show, when Ed told her that he and Norma planned to
    marry, was Nadine starting to come back to realization when she also said
    that her and Mike were doing the same?  (As she squeezes Mike's hand into
    the sound of breaking bones).

3)  Did anyone notice during the Red Room sequence that the statue in the hall
    suddenly disappears?  And the eyes of the doppelgangers - glazed white....
    creepy!  Also, when the bad Coop is chasing the good Coop, who's to say at
    the end of their cat and mouse that it wasn't the good Coop trying to catch
    up with the bad Coop, knowing what was going to happen?  A shuffle ensues
    and the bad Coop still gets out...... (just guessing).

4)  Where does this leave us with our "Twin Peaks Gazette"?  Will we still get
    these issues?

 One last comment:  To all of you disappointed people who wished they'd have
watched Northern Exposure Monday night instead of wasting their time with TP,
come on - admit it...... you CAN'T be true Twin Peaks fans to begin with if you
have this attitude.  Lighten up and quit your bitchin'.  You probably wouldn't
have been satisfied no matter how the finale would have turned out.

Diane                 "Look..... it's trying to think!"   Albert R.

csh@ulysses.att.com (Charles S. Harris) writes:

> >     What is the significance of the fact that the flashing lights on 
> > Cooper and Truman's police car were the same colors as Dr. Jacoby's
> > eyeglasses?

I'll admit I've yet to see the last episode, but unless the flashing 
lights on sheriffs vehicles have changed recently, Jacoby's glasses have 
*always* been those colors.

The title says it all.

> > They sell the Twin Peaks Gazette on the candy
> > counter, just as if it was the local paper (though at $4 each).  Today's
> > headline: "Twin Peaks Host of Bizarre Chess Murders."

The "Twin Peaks Gazette" is also available in Amsterdam, Holland.
Bookstore Atheneum sells them for Dutch fl. 9,75 (approx US$ 5).

peter.

From article <CLAMEN.91Jun12042529@BYRON.SP.CS.CMU.EDU>, by clamen@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen):

>
> While watching, I assumed that every time Cooper crossed the hallway,
> he was entering a different Red Room. Sort of like the all-alike and
> all-different mazes in Colossal Cave Adventure. This seemed to be
> confirmed for me at the end, when Cooper runs through all the rooms he
> had visited before, with the anti-Cooper chasing him, before he
> reaches the Glastonbury Portal.
> --
> Stewart M. Clamen Internet: clamen@cs.cmu.edu
> School of Computer Science UUCP: uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
> Carnegie Mellon University Phone: +1 412 268 3620
> Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890, USA Fax: +1 412 268 1793

Uhh, how do YOU know he reached the portal???? Maybe he was really
just going through the same rooms over and over, and he couldn't have
gotten out the same way he came in? Maybe he was just running in
circles??? Maybe that's why he was caught: he would eventually have
to be, he can't run forever, and that may not have been the way out.
I don't know, just something that passed through the stillness in my
head. :)

Greg


-- 
Socrates: "I drank WHAT????"
LMFAP: "Next time you see me, it won't be me."
Wubba: "A dream is nothing more than a wish dipped in chocolate and sprinkled
with a little imagination." (From my poem, "A Dream") -Wubba

This has nothing to do with the finale.  Hurrayyy!!!!!!

On the 27th of May, the First Choice pay tv movie channel here in
Canada broadcast a film adaptation of three stories from Kurt Vonnegut's
_The Monkey House_ collection.  Although the collection is 20-odd years
old, the stories were adapted for a more recent audience.

The third story in the set had some interesting similarities to our
beloved Twin Peaks.  The essence of the story (no spoiler ... :) )
is that the American ambassador to a fictional Central American country
ravaged by civil war is captured along with his wife, son, and 13 U.S.
military personnel.  Held hostage in a jungle hideaway, the ambassador
must beat his captor at chess to gain freedom for himself and his
entourage.  The twist is that each player taken in the game means one
of the captives dies, a-la Pete Martell vs. WE.  Also, life-size pieces
are used in the game, reminiscent of the papier mache' one that WE used
to trap the "you promised me beer" transient.

But the one that got me was that the ambassador's right-hand man
(literally:  the ambassador played the White King, and his right-hand
man played his King's Bishop) was Maj. Vernon Sutherland, played by the
actor that plays Maj. Garland Briggs!

Kooky.

Now, the story is 20 years old.  I don't know if the chess-for-life
idea originated with Vonnegut, but it's a nifty one.

Art imitates art.       :)

David Neto

In article <ufkjunklwa@ads.com>, ellon@ADS.COM (Ellon Schnaible) writes...
> >In article <TOM.91Jun11015926@kether.webo.dg.com> tom@kether.webo.dg.com (Tom Sullivan) writes:
>> >>What about Cooper saying "I Will" to Windom Earle's request to him
>> >>about trading his soul for Annie's life?  Is THIS why Bob now has
>> >>Cooper?  Note that Bob popped right in at that point, but mentioned
>> >>that Windom had overstepped his "authority"...Hmmmm......
> > 
> > 
> >Ok, maybe I wasn't paying enough attention, but... didn't BoB tell 
> >coop that Earle couldn't ask for his soul, and then BoB took Earles
> >soul.  When did he get into Cooper?  I just don't "get it".
> > 


Coop got it when his doppleganger caught him.


-----------------

   One word sums up probably the responsibility of any Vice President,
   and that one word is 'to be prepared.'

                            --- Vice President Dan Quayle
-----------------

rjohnson@vela.acs.oakland.edu (R o d Johnson) writes:

> >In article <1991Jun12.030007.7871@risky.ecs.umass.edu> giovin@medr3.ecs.umass.edu (Rocky J Giovinazzo) writes:

>> >>Although my dictionary doesn't have define doppleganger, my understanding of 
>> >>the definition of a doppleganger was a creature/being that could change its 
>> >>shape.  For example, it could make itself have the face and body of any other
>> >>creature.  

> >No, a doppel-ganger is simply a double (a double-goer, literally).
> >Your doppelganger is a creature/person who looks exactly like you.
> >Stories about them often treat them as if they're mere reflections,
> >without any independent existence.  Sometimes they're just doubles,
> >though.  Anyone out there have some more information on the folklore
> >of doppelgangers?

I dusted of my AD&D Monster Manual last night to see if dopplegangers
were part of the ethereal or material plane. A doppleganger, according
to AD&D is simply a creature that can change shape into any humanoid
from 4` to 8' tall (interesting there is a midget and a giant!). They
take the form of a human and then try to do away with him to replace
him. There is only a 10% chance of others discovering that it is not the
real person. There is no connection of dopplegangers with the ethereal
or astral planes, they are simply creatures; hence, I theorize that
these are aliens, the black lodge is their spaceship (don't forget
Briggs and the connection with project bluebook). These guys are similar
to "Predators". Of course, I'm probably wrong. I can't explain why there
is a white and black lodge. Flame away.
No sig, Chuck Machala

In article <TOM.91Jun11015926@kether.webo.dg.com> tom@kether.webo.dg.com (Tom
Sullivan) writes:
> >What about Cooper saying "I Will" to Windom Earle's request to him
> >about trading his soul for Annie's life?  Is THIS why Bob now has
> >Cooper?  Note that Bob popped right in at that point, but mentioned
> >that Windom had overstepped his "authority"...Hmmmm......
> >

Evil is often represented as a structure with a chain of command.  Perhaps that
is what Lynch & Co. were thinking of when they wrote the scene.  As one
advances through the ranks one gains power to do more and greater evil.  WE was
on a lower rung than BOB and lacked the authority to claim an immortal soul. 
BOB might have had that power.  * (See Sillly Note at bottom)

WE was tricked into believing that he would gain power in the Black Lodge. 
Hardly surprising since the promises were coming from a demonic persona. 
(Isn't Satan sometimes referred to as the Father of Lies?)  Poor ole WE,
demented, duped and disposed of.

Does BOB now control Cooper's soul?  I think that Cooper assenting to take
Annie's place granted BOB the authority to release Cooper's dark side.  (I
think that Coop's doppleganger did not appear until after this scene.)  Cooper
failed to defeat (or refute, disable or unconjure) his dark side (so far).  I
think that it is this dark side that has been released into the world and that
the "good" Coop is still wandering the halls of the Lodge.

This scenario scares me a little more.  Cooper must have witnessed some pretty
awful examples of human behavior as an Agent of the FBI.  There must have been
times when he wished he could go outside the law to punish a criminal.  When
his normal, good self  is in control, such impluses are dismissed.  But with
the good interred in the Black Lodge the bad is free to act out all not only
all his revenge impulses, but could recreate and re-enact many of the horrors
he had witnessed professionally.  Brrrrrrh.  Kind of turns Cooper into a
Hannibal Lector type, only scarier.

*Silly Note  
 When I was writing that paragraph about the structure of evil, I suddenly
thought of direct-sales groups like Amway and Nu-Skin.  BOB might have been the
entity in charge of his little circle of evil souls, and is  trying to go out
and recruit more souls to join the group so that he can get more and more
power.  Maybe he has a structure under him that consists of directors,
sub-directors and entry-level bad guys!  Geez leave it to David Lynch to make
free enterprise resemble hell.
*End Silly Note

Terri

Disclaimer:  I wrote it, I'm responsible for it.  
    Similarities between any business group mentioned in this post and any
such group exisiting in real life are a figment of your imagination!

1.what about Audrey ? She can't be dead !

2.the black lodge's scenography was really dull, We think they could have done something 
   better !

3.what about Ben and Donna (Horne?)?!!!?

4.In our opinion Cooper that believed himself pure discovered in the black lodge his
  evil self (Following TAO`s philosophy good and evil coexists in everyone -- since
  original sin I think)

5.Is Annie somehow a reincarnation of Caroline ?

6.Laura was VERY.....



Lina Longhitano

In article <109772@sgi.sgi.com>, sjohnson@texas.vlsi.sgi.com (Scott Johnson) writes...
> >Did anyone else notice the paleness of all of the characters at the
> >beginning?  Especially Windom when he first appears.  It looked like
> >he'd been rolling in the flour.  And when he smiled, I thought his
> >teeth were black.  Am I going crazy?  No one else has mentioned it,
> >but I'm sure the three of us watching it all freaked.  Then we
> >noticed everyone seemed pale.  Maybe we were just sensitive.  I
> >loaned out my tape or I'd check it again.
> > 
> >Please someone reaffirm me here.
> > 
> >sj


Yes, I too noticed how pale WE was.

-----------------

   One word sums up probably the responsibility of any Vice President,
   and that one word is 'to be prepared.'

                            --- Vice President Dan Quayle
-----------------

In article <TOM.91Jun11151809@kether.webo.dg.com>, tom@kether.webo.dg.com (Tom Sullivan) writes...
> >In article <1991Jun11.115808.18912@crim.ca> vroomen@bond.crim.ca (Louis C. Vroomen) writes:
> > 
> > 
> >   And now, what of WE?  Is he a permanent resident of the BL?  It is interesting
> >   that when WE wants to take Coop's soul, it looks like he is using a knife
> >   but Bob just pulls it out.  And the soul comes out as flames?  Fire, come
> >   walk with me -- Soul, come walk with me?                       ^^^^^^^
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Fire, WALK WITH ME !!!!!!!!!!

I though we had killed that one.

-----------------

   One word sums up probably the responsibility of any Vice President,
   and that one word is 'to be prepared.'

                            --- Vice President Dan Quayle
-----------------

In article <SQUASH.91Jun9182322@red.iesd.auc.dk> squash@iesd.auc.dk (Lars Flesner Kristiansen) writes:

> > So we're seeing the episode directed by Tim Hunter on this coming
> >Thursday and the Lynch/Frost episode next Thursday. How come you guys in
> >the states don't do the same?

I don't know.  Maybe because the network is run by idiots?

--
  *  From the disk of:|  jms@vanth.uucp |  "Let's become
  Jim Shaffer, Jr.|  amix.commodore.com!vanth!jms  |   alive again."
  37 Brook Street|  uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms |
  Montgomery, PA 17752|  72750.2335@compuserve.com |   --Yes

In article <25394@well.sf.ca.us>, rsires@well.sf.ca.us (Ron Sires) writes...
> > 
> >What a bunch of crybabies!!!
> > 
> >       WAH!!!  I wanna know what Bob is!

We know what BoB is.

> >       WAH!!!  Lynch didn't tie up all the loose ends!

A finale should be a finale.


[other childish WAH's deleted...you're welcome]

> > 
> >Give me a break!  Those who wanted answers out of the finale have
> >never caught on to the beauty of Lynch's art.  Lynch has never tried
> >to provide any answers in his work, from Eraserhead on to Twin Peaks. 
> >What he does, and does wonderfully enough to keep me tuning in to
> >Twin Peaks for these many months, is ask questions.  Great questions. 
> >Big questions.  All great literature, great works of art, are like
> >that.  Pat answers are for those who can't face the ambiguity of
> >truth.  There are many correct answers, correct interpretations.  The
> >fun lies in coming up with them.  Those who've posted that they're
> >angry with the show are missing out on the fun.

Haven't missed out on any of the fun...I think we feel cheated by having to 
sit through a SEASON finale and not a SERIES finale.  I realize that spoon 
fed is not the way to go...but not having any compassion for the devoted 
followers is inexcusable (it seems he need as much devotion as he can get 
to keep TP alive in some fashion).

> > 
> >That said (and sorry about the flamishness), there are a few points

Notice MY flammer was off. (I could've left it on but it was getting to 
warm in here.)


> >about the White Lodge/Black Lodge that seem to be in dispute.
> >Spoilers to follow:
> > 
> >I was under the impression that there were, in fact, two rooms that
> >Coop was walking between, one the White Lodge and the other the Black
> >Lodge.  It looked like some of the folks Coop encountered only showed
> >up in one and some only in the other.  A definative list would be
> >helpful, but it seemed that the dwarf, the giant, the bellhop, and
> >Laura Palmer appeared only in the first room.  Bob, Maddie, Windham
> >Earle, and maybe Caroline and Annie, appeared only in the second. 
> >I've been trying to puzzle out which is the White Lodge and which the
> >Black Lodge.  I believe that the giant is a White Lodger and Windham
> >should be a Black Lodger.  What has me stumped is that the screaming
> >Laura doesn't seem to be a White Lodge sorta character, but Bob
> >*certainly* is a Black Lodger.  Any ideas?
> > 

Agreed.  Like the idea of WL room/ BL room.  Maybe it could've been 
tailored slightly to live up to Hawk's description. 

BTW, does anyone else think Hawk was underused ???

> >I don't take the dwarf's statement that "This is the Waiting Room."
> >to mean that it wasn't the lodge itself, as some seem to.  Also, it
> >sounded like both lodges have the same entrance, with love being the
> >key to the White Lodge and fear to the Black Lodge.  This contradicts
> >the story Hawk told of having to pass through the Black Lodge in
> >order to enter the White Lodge, but the Indian folklore may have
> >gotten details like this wrong after centuries of retelling.
> > 
> >I noticed that, just before Coop and Annie re-appeared in Glastonbury
> >Circle, one of the Coops caught the other one in one of the red
> >rooms.  I hope this meant the the Coop who reappeared is a
> >conglomerate of the two, doing internal spritual battle for control. 
> >That would explain why Coop (the good one) smashes his head against
> >the mirror on realizing that he is harboring Bob.

Did anyone else notice that when Coop first entered the BL, there was a 
ball of yeelowish light (from Trumans perspective)...and when CooBob 
returned the was a ball of RED light ?????????

Hmmm.....


-----------------

   One word sums up probably the responsibility of any Vice President,
   and that one word is 'to be prepared.'

                            --- Vice President Dan Quayle
-----------------

A lot of people are saying that coopers stomach wound in the lodge is in 
the same place as the gun shot. But cooper once mentioned that during the 
murder of carolyn, her attacker also stabbed him. the scene with windom 
stabbing cooper was just an replay of what happened in Pittsburg (sp). 
remember bob once mentioned that he knew about pittsburg. they showed 
carolyn lying on the floor and coop standing there with windom. his wound 
has nothing to do with josie.

And what about the trembling hands on the 2nd to last episode?

Did Coop and the Major finally have too much coffee?

Mike McCann   (mccann@ncar.ucar.edu)  |  "The more you drive the less
Oceanography Department, Code OC/Mc   |   intelligent you are."
Naval Postgraduate School             |              
Monterey, CA  93943 - (408) 646-3255  |                 - Repo Man philosophy

In article <5529@autodesk.COM> robertj@unreal.uucp (Young Rob Jellinghaus) writes:
> >
> >The Giant and the Dwarf--one and the same--


Actually, the impression I got was that the old waiter, the one who
brought Coop the milk after he was shot, was the "one and the same"
with the Giant.  Especially the way they both faded in and out in the
same chair.



-- uunet!dialogic!gerry | "Even a dead plant turns | Dialogic Corporation OR | over a new leaf | 300 Littleton Rd gerry@dialogic.UUCP | when the wind blows." | Parsippany, NJ 07054 | | (201)334-8450

In article <28551A76.2A35@deneva.sdd.trw.com> malcom@ridley.coyote.trw.com (Michael Malcom) writes:


> > I disagree that the Major has never been to the White Lodge.  We know that his
> > memories of his trips into the Lodges have been blacked out, but his sub-
> > conscious memories leak out in dreams & intuitions.  And, he told Bobby of his
> > 'vision' of a brilliantly lighted white marble mansion.  Then again, maybe it
> > really was a vision of the future, like Coop's '25 years later' dream.

Perhaps the mark the major and the log lady have is due to facing the
black lodge and NOT getting corrupted....If so, perhaps he made it to
the white lodge...


> >I haven't decided what to make of the Red Room scenes, but I loved them!  Did
> >anyone else connect the Pseudo-coffee with the viscous goo dripping from the 
> >coffee cup in the Dale/Annie Double-R scene last episode?  Perhaps Dale & 
> >Annie's love opened up enough of a 'doorway' to bring in some Waiting Room
> >Sludge!

I had forgotten about that....good observation!

> >I was also confused by the Giant's appearance in the Waiting Room.  He wasn't
> >very helpful.  Perhaps the Black Lodge's power has grown so great he is no
> >longer permitted to help Coop?

Didn't Cooper get told by Mike that he could ask the giant for help
and information?  Why didn't he?

I have always felt TP was intended by Lynch/Frost to be a joke on the viewers.
 Especially in the way it made fun of standard television trademarks (quotes fr
om other movies/shows, weak plot lines, and emphasis on the strangeness of situ
ations).  My inclination that TP was always intended as a joke to the viewer st
ems from an article I read before the series was first aired (might have been R
olling Stone).  I think Lynch even said that the story lines were written in re
lation to the commericials being shown.  An example would be the Dunkin Donuts
ad that ran after the Laura-upside-down coffee cup credits.  Of course Dunkin D
onuts was advertising for their super large size cup of coffee.  Coincidence?
I found it strangely humorous.  Viva El Lynch!

The sign that Laura gives is not for the Bookhouse boys, it is sign to show the
availabilty of a certain nose candy.
charlie

meyers@wybbs.mi.org (John Meyers) writes:

> > First of all, will someone of authority conferm/deny that the final two
> > episodes were filmed long the final status of the show was known, so
> > these were actually just the last two shows of the season, and it was
> > assumed there would be more? I am acting under the assumption that this
> > were the case. 

A February interview with Harley Peyton that I've read mentions that they
were just about to start shooting the next-to-last episode, meaning the
finale was shot in late February/early March.  He also hints broadly at
the cliffhanger ending, and says that the idea for it was about three
months old . . . meaning that the "Coop/BOB" concept dates back to last
*November*.  I wouldn't call that a "last-minute cop-out".

One more time: this was written as the SEASON FINALE, not the end of
the series.  There are cliffhangers because when they wrote and shot
the episode, they didn't know that there weren't going to be any more.

Sheez.
                                                  Lazlo (lazlo@triton.unm.edu)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
STUDIO NIBBLE -- "America's Favorite Lunchtime Snack"

  This may be picking at nits, grasping at straws, etc. however...

  I was watching my video tape of the final episode yesterday w/ the
possibility in mind that Catherine planted the bomb.  I watched her
place the key in the cake saver for "safe keeping."  Later when
Andrew went to switch keys, I noticed that the key and key tag were
arranged differently.  This seemed to indicate to me that catherine
had already taken the key and later returned it.

  The note w/ the bomb seemed to smack of Eckhardt though...

  Plot by Catherine or continuity error? - You decide!

  - Larry


  I still think the red curtain thing was spooky AND effective!
--
/  Larry J. Brackney      | E-Mail: brackney@mn.ecn.purdue.edu              \ 
|-------------------------| S-Mail: 3116 Hilltop Dr.  W. Lafayette IN  47906 |
|  Mechanical Engineering | Phone : (317)-463-1602 (Home)                    |
\  Purdue University      |         (317)-494-6552 (Office)                 /

In article <BARB.91Jun11222614@aarau.ai.mit.edu> barb@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Barb Miller) writes:


> >In article <1991Jun11.232029.20295@newsserver.sfu.ca> shephard@newsserver.sfu.ca (Gordon Shephard) writes:

>> >>
>> >>   In <14947@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> marc@porsche944.Eng.Sun.COM (Marc Schneider) writes:
>> >>
>> >>   > BTW- was it just me or were the way to many commercials durring the 
>> >>   >last episode. If ABC sold that much airtime to advertisers, it makes
>> >>   >you wonder why they ever canceled the show?
>> >>
>> >>   It was just you. :) Actually, I can remember one 24 minute period
>> >>   without a commercial.  We're just so in love with the show that every
>> >>   minute away is that much more painful.

Actually, the "last" episode was the last hour, and there were
beaucoup commercials in that last hour.  It was VERY refreshing in the
first hour to have so few, however (especially the first 1/2 hour!).

> >And the sponsors were different.  Where were the Yuppie car
> >commercials? 

Did you miss the Lexus commercial???

> >jhawk@panix.uucp (John Hawkinson) comments:
> >
> >One little anomaly I noticed in the Black (/white?) Lodge scene last night:
> >After Cooper has gone from room to room a couple times, the statue which is
> >in the hallway dissapears. Any comments?

Didn't Gordon say that Shelly resembled the Venus de Milo statue
while talking to Coop in the RR Diner?  It seems that there was
alot of emphasis placed on Shelly...Leo tells The Major to "save
Shelly", Gordon falls in love with her, Windom Earle reading
poetry by Shelley...does anyone think that originally Shelly would 
have played a much larger role in the Black Lodge thing, if not for 
the time constraints placed on Lynch et al?  

Pam

Last show messed me up.

For these reasons...

These last two episodes were billed as the TWIN PEAKS FINALE, but were
originally shot simply as the season finale - WITH EVERY INTENTION TO
FILM FOR NEXT SEASON.  They stuck the last two episodes together and
saw that they could be the final two shows.

SO!  Somewhere in this world there exists scripts for the next few
shows and I think we might want to try and see if we could get
our hands on 'em.  Might answer a few questions.

Also, don't be holding on to your breath about Twin Peaks being picked
up by Fox (tm) or some other cable channel.   Twin Peaks sported a 
crew of over 250 which, salaryWise, is unatainable by anyone other
than a major network.    This isn't Airwolf, ya'know.

Ok. I'm done.

OneLastThought:  Twin Peaks is/was a (excellent) soap opera.  That
means (and always will) that there are NEVER any clear answers - just
more DAMN questions.

mikul@darkside.com

ahhahahHAhahahahahaHHAaHHAHAAHAhHAHhahHAHAhAHAHAHAHAHAAHaHHAHAha      hah?

What does a restaurant in a Kansas city have to do with anything?

Kevin

In article <109772@sgi.sgi.com> sjohnson@texas.vlsi.sgi.com (Scott Johnson) writes:
> >Did anyone else notice the paleness of all of the characters at the
> >beginning?  Especially Windom when he first appears.  It looked like
> >he'd been rolling in the flour.  And when he smiled, I thought his
> >teeth were black.  Am I going crazy? 

> >Please someone reaffirm me here.


Hello, Scott.  You *do* exist.

I'll reaffirm what you saw, also:  Windom was indeed pale, and his
teeth were black - in fact, his whole mouth seemed dark.  Snacking
on tarantulas, perhaps.

In article <1991Jun11.230108.21290@risky.ecs.umass.edu> giovin@medr0.ecs.umass.edu (Rocky J Giovinazzo) writes:
> >In article <TOM.91Jun11015926@kether.webo.dg.com> tom@kether.webo.dg.com (Tom Sullivan) writes:
>> >>What about Cooper saying "I Will" to Windom Earle's request to him
>> >>about trading his soul for Annie's life?  Is THIS why Bob now has
>> >>Cooper?  Note that Bob popped right in at that point, but mentioned
>> >>that Windom had overstepped his "authority"...Hmmmm......
> >
> >This may have been a test of Cooper's love for Annie-- I guess he 
> >"passed" this part?  Although he failed otherwise.

I think he "passed" this part by reacting with love rather than fear.
Later, when he runs from doppelganger-Laura and his own doppelganger,
he fails because he's reacting with fear.  I think.

-- David M. Meyer | dmm0t@virginia.edu Department of Mechanical & Aerospace Engineering | (804) 924-7926 University of Virginia |

My!  There's so much traffic in this group that I'm only about halfway
done, so I don't know if someone else posted this.  But I might not have
time to post later, so here goes.

Anyway, there's a lot of talk about the number of rooms in the Lodge(s)
(I'm not going to get into the argument about how many Lodges).  At least
one poster mentioned that Coop kept going back and forth in the hallway.  I
take issue with this idea.

Rather than thinking that there are only 3 rooms and 1 corridor, look at
the Lodge as a maze of red rooms, all alike :-).  That is, you go through a
room, any room, and you end up in another hallway.  This makes the Lodge
much bigger than originally imagined.  This would also make more sense in
as far as the Lodge itself is a spatial anomaly, so why shouldn't its own
architecture be spatially anamalous?  Various rooms could return you to the
same corridor or a different one, sort of like Dr. Who's Tardis.

Evidence:
1) There are many points when you see Coop entering a room or being in the
hallway from a hard cut from the previous scene.  There's no reason to
assume that he left the previous room the way he came in.

2) The irregularity of the Statue.  Some thought it was disappearing
because we were seeing one end of the hallway or the other.  It is also
possible that there were many hallways, some with statures, some without.

3) Coop running from his doppelganger.  Notice that he went down several
corridors before he got caught.  One could think that they were all
different, or one could say that the whole lodge is some Mobius strip
(which is another exciting thought).

4) Complexity and disorientation make up a lot of Madness and Fear.  Bob is
both, IMHO (don't flame me on this, ok?).  What better way to weaken Coop
than to give him confusion over where he is or how he's going to get out?
Confusion over one's location and feelings of being out of control of one's
environment are key elements to fear.

Hmmm.  I guess this argument would say that we saw only the Black Lodge and
Coop had yet to reach the White Lodge.  Whatever.
--
  ____   
 /|\ |   Scott H. Novack    (Blue Canary)    |scottn@usl.com, uslunix!scottn
 \|_\|   "He's the meat and potatoes.  I'm   |Unix System Labs, Summit, NJ
      \   the Hollandaise sauce." -- Bill Bruford, about Alan White of YES
\_____/  Disclaimer: "I read it, too.  What does it mean?" -- Billy Joel
-- ____ /|\ | Scott H. Novack (Blue Canary) | scottn@usl.com, uslunix!scottn \|_\| "He's the meat and potatoes. I'm | Unix System Labs, Summit, NJ \ the Hollandaise sauce." -- Bill Bruford, about Alan White of YES

I think that the White Lodge is an illusion, and that evil is at the
heart of the universe.  All striving for the good, through love and
self-sacrifice, serve only to create an illusion which distracts
us from our final fate, which is to be ingested and made one with the
malevolent core of the uniBoBverse.

--
John FlanaganCenter for EUV Astrophysics
johnf@ssl.berkeley.eduUniversity of California
(...!ucbvax!soc1.ssl!johnf)Berkeley, CA 94720

> >Did anyone else notice the paleness of all of the characters at the
> >beginning?  Especially Windom when he first appears.  It looked like
> >he'd been rolling in the flour.  And when he smiled, I thought his
> >teeth were black.  Am I going crazy?  No one else has mentioned it,
> >but I'm sure the three of us watching it all freaked.  Then we
> >noticed everyone seemed pale.  Maybe we were just sensitive.  I
> >loaned out my tape or I'd check it again.
> > 
> >Please someone reaffirm me here.

yup


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
MJ Swede
CMU graduate program in the biological sciences

"If I have seen farther, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants"

"Standing on the shoulders of giants leaves me cold/I want a main idea
to call my own."

I hafta admit I was very dissapointed in the finale.

The symbols for Jupiter and Saturn are very well known.
But, some points that irritated me (and some that I thought were great/scary/
intriguing/awesome/etc.)

1) "Love and Fear" - so I have to assume that no one is interested
in the White Lodge?  Certainly the Major knows how to get there.  And
why were these people int he BLACK And not the WHITE lodge?  1) the Giant,
2) Senor Droolcup.  Personally I expected something more weird and elaborate
from the Black Lodge.  The cave drawing was much more interesting than B/W tile
and red drapes (silent ones too --- maybe that's where Ed stashed Nadine's
silent drape runners! :-)  IF the Giant is a resident of the Black Lodge,
then why help Coop as he has?  Why warn him about Annie?  IMHO this was
bad characterization - maybe they should have shot for 2 1/2 hours and
done it more cohesively.

2) Isn't there a temporal continuity problem?  Ben gets killed
the night of or the early morning after the Miss Twin Peakls contest.
His wife is a witness to this.  Yet Audrey is chaining herself to the mast
in defense of the Pine Weasel the morning after, supposedly ignorant of her 
father's fate.  (This I didn't like since I like the character of Ben and
ALSO wanted to know what scared him int he episode previous!  But I have
to admit iot took me by complete surprise!)

3) Jupiter and Saturn conjunction - as we already have established,
that only happens every 19.9 years, and it ain't happening for some time yet.
On the other hand if they had used Jupiter and Mars, it would have
been VERY interesting and something that would happen every two years.
"I'll see you in 25 years" may have been a reference to that giving an
additionally wrong period.

4) Bob in Dale -  Whaaaah!  I felt so DOWN after that.  Great,
but semi-predicatble ending.  More on this to follow.  Good mix of
predictable and unpredictable stuff though.

5) Pete dead?  Audrey dead? - Audrey first.  In the spirit
of "keeping up with the PAlmers", the Horne's have started a filial
life-taking ritual.  Pete?  He was one of the nicer guys on the cast,
though I could never figure out how he could handle Catherine's dealing,
and helping out the Bookhouse boys at the same time.  While he was supposed
to come off as clueless, he consistently showed that he was on top of things,
esp. with Josie.  So, what's the deal? I can only think that should some later
revitalization of TP come about that both Jack Nance and Ms. Fenn
want their contracts open.  Too bad as I liked both characters!

6) No James returning?  Good!  < 30 seconds of Bobby Briggs?  Good!

7) Leo:  Poor Leo.

8) As another poster pointed out - why is Norma not worrying about
Annie?  How IS Annie?  (couldn't resist).  Grumble.

9) Lucy/Dick/Andy - predictable, and rightly so.

10) The Log Lady - where did she go?  The scene with Squiggy
was alittle weird.  How would WE know to pose as her?  At first I was
expecting that she was something from one of the LOdge's, climbing
ont he scaffolding and looking out of place.  WE was my next immediate
guess.

11) What was the whole thing about Bob poking out of the
entrace some episodes ago?  Random image?  We already knew he 
was afoot as he appeard to Coop so recently.

12) What is the thing about the oil?  Just to freak Ronette out?

13) I can understand Catherine being smart enough to suspect
a trap on Thomas' part, and even baiting Andrew enough to go for it.
But why let Pete die like that?  (See #5).

14) Doesn't Truman DO anything anymore?  While waiting for Dale
at least 5 people may have died, er, no 6.  There was the lady at the
bank, but she might already have been dead.

15) Laura Palmer - gets the Fay Wray award for 1991.  Aside.
Why was Maddy in the Black Lodge?  She wasn't evil (see above).  And
if we're trotting out the tournament of dead people society, why not
bring in Mr. Solitary Soul too?

16) Toad!  My favorite Twin PEaker was in the finale.  Cool.
Can someone e-mail me the info about him (the character) from the TP-external
sources?

17) If Major Briggs has time to go to the Diner w/ Mrs. Briggs
the night after the ruckus at the Miss Twin PEaks thing, would you were you
he (isn't English great for pronouns?) be there or trying to help Truman/Coop?
Granted he hasn't seen her in a while....

18) Josie was listed in the top credits, maybe they have
been doing this all season, but why was the wood/woods/spirit thing
ever really brought out? GHOSTwood was a pretty obvious hint.

19) 12 Sycmore trees that look like they have been planted
yesterday and are only2 years old.  It looks like the sort of site
that EVERYONE would go to to party.  Funny how no one ever noticed
the red curtains before... :-)  (But they're silent... I KNEW Bob was
in Nadine!)

20) Windom Earle was SO bad, SO spooky.  He goes into the BL,
and poof - nothing. grumble grumble grumble.  SOME showdown. :-(
I would have preferred 1/2 of the LMFAP and the musical interlude
and SOME climax within a climax regarding this!  I really feel cheated.

Except for these misses, and even with them it still stood
out over 90% of prme-time TV.  Like Star Trek II --- there are enough
loose ends that can be picked up on and are screaming for such (at the end
of ST:TWOF how many people REALLY thought that Spock was dead forever?).

PREDICTIONS/WRAP_UP

1) Maj. Briggs has to get Coop/Annie/etc. to the White Lodge,
despite the fact that all the "players" don't seem to come from there,
except Mike (the OAM).  Who knows what Truman will do.

2) Depending on "real-world" circumstances, I suspect we will
or won't see Ben, Pete, and/or Audrey again.  (HOw's that for pinning
something down!)

3) I can't see Dale doing much of his job in his current state.
First of all he has to have a big headache.

Look for a movie, or another TV movie in the Fall.  This ain't over,
not by a long shot.


Sorry for the typing mistakes...  SLOw modem.

Bob D.

> >        These lyrics are from a song the Indigo Girls cover called
> >"Get Together".  I can't recall the songwriter at the moment.
> >It's obviously a reference to WHITE AND BLACK LODGES!!!

> >        Maybe if Coop had listened to more Indigo Girls instead of
> >Julie Crews all the time... or maybe if he'd just run a little faster...
> >--
> >James Welcher                   "He is DALE, eager for fun..."

Nice try... however, "Get Together" was a remake of a '60s song,
which the IGs originally recorded to be used on "Wonder Years."  Then
it showed up on the re-release of *Strange Fire*, replacing a much
better song ("High Horse") in the process...

Well, perhaps Lynch heard the song while he was growing up.  =)

But if we're looking for Peaks-related Indigo Girls songs, my choice
would have to be "Prince of Darkness."  "By Grace, my sight grows
stronger and I will not be A PAWN =) for the Prince of Darkness any
longer."  ;-)  Perhaps Emily predicted TP five years ago!


                                                      -- Mark

A bunch of us here in Champaign, IL, watched the show the night of
6/11 via the VCR because we had a softball game the night before
(which we seriously considered forfeiting).  I have sat here and
read all 200+ postings about the show--and I agree with just about
everyone!  It was a great show, and it wasn't a great show!!  It
was, however, exactly what we needed!  I seriously hope that
something occurs in the future, because I need another TP fix!

To tie this posting into my
Subject: line, I want to ask a brief
question:

     How could they have a show without one single donut/doughnut???
     I was crushed!  (Though I did enjoy the repeated references to
     pies!!

Guff

--
Graeme McGufficke | DOWN UNDER|
U. of Illinois at |   _--_|\  |
Urbana-Champaign  |  / NT   \ |
guff@uiuc.edu     |  \_.--._/ |
My views only!    |        v  |

In article <1991Jun11.232549.2983@indetech.com>, 
janet@indetech.com (Janet Christian x2054) writes...
>> >>In witchcraft (celtic version) twelve is
>> >>a magic number.  Twelve witches usually form a coven and
>> >>at ceremonies they stand in a circle of twelve to host the devil
>> >>inside.  Twelve trout? Well, wouldn't they be the
>> >>antidote?
>> >>
> > 
> >Boy, do you have some facts twisted on this one. First, it isn't twelve, its
> >thirteern - twelve coveners and one high priest/high priestess, although
> >that is hardly a rule - or even a concrete guideline. And, Witches don't
> >even believe in the devil - that is a Christian concept. Before you go
> >off spouting facts about Witches, why don't you study books written BY
> >Witches, or better yet, ask a real Witch what she/he believes. 
> > 
> >Janet Christian (a real Witch)
> >-- 
> >____*_  Janet Christian             jchristian@indetech.com
> >\  / /  Independence Technologies   {sun,sharkey,pacbell}!indetech!jchristian
> > \/ /   42705 Lawrence Place        FAX: 415 438-2034
> >  \/    Fremont, CA 94538           Voice: 415 438-2054


Actually, I did ask a real witch.  Apparently, some covens in Southern
England included a devil, or devil-like character, in the center
of twelve.  Whether they believed in him, is a different matter.
I also read a few witch biographies about leaders 
of these covens from the 1950's and early 60's.  I stand by
my statements.  I am not a witch, and do not pretend to represent
witch views.

In article <91162.092235SAUDA@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> SAUDA@MAINE.MAINE.EDU writes:
> >
Subject: I Need To Brush My Teeth
> >
> >Typical Lynch!

actually my initial reaction to this was 'typical fastidious Cooper',
afterwards when I thought about it some more It's obvious it's an
excuse I couldn't decide decide whether Coop needed to check in the mirror
to see if Bob's inside him or it's just Bob (the 'black' Coop) .....
probably it's neither, it's just Lynch needing to pull a cliff-hanger ...

Paul


-- Paul Campbell UUCP: ..!mtxinu!taniwha!paul AppleLink: CAMPBELL.P Tom Metzger's White Ayrian Resistance has been enjoined to stop selling Nazi Bart Simpson t-shirts - Tom of course got it wrong, Bart is yellow, not white.

In article <1991Jun11.225932.20926@risky.ecs.umass.edu> giovin@medr0.ecs.umass.edu (Rocky J Giovinazzo) writes:


In article <TOM.91Jun10235507@kether.webo.dg.com> tom@kether.webo.dg.com (Tom Sullivan) writes:
>> >>Cooper-Bob, Coobob, Bobper, BooBer....), he will let Harland know.
>> >>Harland will mount a rescue mission to get Dale.  Dale-bar-Bob will go
>> >>after Harland to stop him.  Dale-bar and Bob will get tricked or
>> >>something and Dale and Harland escape.  This of course assumes that
>> >>David Lynch wants to satisfy my urge (and need) to rescue Dale...Oh well...
>> >>And what about Annie???
> >
> >Of course you mean, Garland.  Also, I don't really understand your
> >possible movie continuation.  I think that rescuing Dale needs to be
> >done through the gateway-- possibly, only Dale can rescue himself.
> >
> >Rocky Giovinazzo

Yes, I did mean Garland, but it was late, and TP had fried my brain.
BUT, the possible movie continuation is from all the press last week
of the possible continuation.  I heard from a friend that it was a
ploy to see if there would actually be interest in a movie (test the
waters).  You may be right about only Dale being able to rescue
himself.  As other posters have mentioned, perhaps his handing over
his soul (if that has indeed happened) is due to an act of love, and
as such is retrievable.  And we do have a cast of potential heros to
rescue him.
Also, I think Annie may have passed a test herself....Maybe
she'll have some triangular/diamond shaped tattoo to show for it (if
that's what these signify).  And if so, maybe she'll rescue Coop (or
Booper, or CooBob...).  And we have the Parcifal character in this as
well, Andy.  So, who knows if and when we'll ever have a sequel, but I
want one, a damn good one.

 fame@gollum.dist.unige.it (Cocurullo Fabio Moresco Marcello) writes:

> >4.In our opinion Cooper that believed himself pure discovered in the black lodge his
> >  evil self (Following TAO`s philosophy good and evil coexists in everyone -- since
> >  original sin I think)

   I agree, all except the original sin part. That is a Christian concept. The TAO
predates it.  

   For further reading: "The Original Snub", from _Principia_Discordia_ by Malaclypse
the younger.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I'm going to give little Elvis a bath." - Ben Horne
dawn@netcom.COM

In article <1991Jun11.163051.4650@netcom.COM> dawn@netcom.COM (Darragh Nagle) 
writes:
> >
> >   -- stuff deleted --
> >
> >Laura Palmer's hand symbol looked like a symbol, similar to the
> >pose in many Bhuddist paintings. Anyone know what it means?
> >

If my memory serves me correctly it's the classic possition taken by
Shiva while doing his dance that destroys and thus remakes the world
The fullfilment of the death and re-birth cycle. It's also symbolic
of something that is in this world but not of this world. 

Idle speculation re: any sort of follow-up.  My office-mate Gael and I were
speculating about how the whole Coop or alter-Coop would get returned to
their rightful places.  I was reading in the _Access_Guide_to_Twin_Peaks_
about the Passion Play which occurs every 5 or so years, but be ready in April,
at Glastonbury Grove. It's rumored to be produced by the Bookhouse Boys. Hmm,
Passion Play (usually having to do with the death and resurection of Christ),
Glastonbury the legendary burial place of King Arthur who sought the Holy Grail
aka the Cup of Christ (Arthur, the Once and Future King, who goes away but will
return at the times of greatest need and peril -- yet more death and re-birth
symbolism) and not to mention the secret society (ala the Masonic Lodge) which
is dedicated to keeping the good and rightious.  Now if my time sense is 
correct the Miss Twin Peaks contest is in April -- just in time for an emer-
gency reenactment of the Passion Play ... food for thought, eh?

  lwv27@CAS.BITNET (Larry W. Virden):
  >Someone mentioned that to me this morning (i.e. that the two rooms
  >was white and black lodge).
  >Has anyone sorted out what was in each place (there are 3 rooms right?
    jhawk@panix.uucp (John Hawkinson):
    >>Don't forget there must be rooms on the periphery of those other rooms
    >>(we see Laura & everybody else coming in from a diff. entrance than
    >>Coop, right?).

Another possibility is that the Red Room has no fixed geography at all;
drawing a map would be futile. The room changes continually, as a dream
does, in response to Coop's emotional/spiritual state and/or the manipu-
lations of BOB. The BL-dwellers are seriously messing Coop's mind around
in there. My assumption is that the Red Room is less like a "maze of
twisty passages, all alike" than it is like a nightmare.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keith Dawson   <dawson@Atex.Kodak.COM>    voice=508-670-4025    fax=508-670-4033
Atex Advanced Publishing Sys., 165 Lexington Rd. (400/165L), Billerica, MA 01821
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 tom@kether.webo.dg.com (Tom Sullivan):
 > Someone posted that in the Autobiography of Cooper's, that his hand
 > shakes when evil? is around or something like that...

Reminds me of Spiderman's "spider sense," which tingles at the approach
or even the mention of danger.

  >...Cooper is now Cooper-Bar (Anti-Cooper, or perhaps
  >Cooper-Bob, Coobob, Bobper, BooBer....), ...

By the way: Venus and Jupiter are conjoint right now--you can
see them low in the sky after dusk--and Mars is supposed to
join them soon--like this coming weekend.

In our world, that is.  :-)

--Fiona

 >Terri@osf.org writes:
 >I suddenly
 >thought of direct-sales groups like Amway and Nu-Skin. BOB might have been
 >the entity in charge of his little circle of evil souls, and is  trying to
 >go out and recruit more souls to join the group so that he can get more
 >and more power. Maybe he has a structure under him that consists of
 > directors, sub-directors and entry-level bad guys! 

Not the first time we've seen a heirarchy of evil. Consider these bigger-
fish-eat-littler-fish sequences. Lynch/Frost seem to like to introduce
an evil character, then eclipse that evil with the greater depths revealed 
in an even badder character.

<drugs>
  Laura
  Bobby + Snake
  Leo Johnson
  Jacques Renault       Hank Jennings   <parallel drug activity>
  Jean Renault          Ben Horne

<prostitution>
  Laura + Ronette
  Emory Battis
  Blackie O'Reilly
  Ben Horne

<incest+abuse>
  Laura
  Leland
  BOB

<sawmill, Ghostwood>
  Josie Packard
  Jonathan Kumagai 
  Thomas Eckhardt + Jones
  Andrew Packard
  Catherine Martell   <assuming it was she who blew up the bank>

 >Geez leave it to David Lynch to make free enterprise resemble hell.

Yeah well, it does rather, doesn't it?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keith Dawson   <dawson@Atex.Kodak.COM>    voice=508-670-4025    fax=508-670-4033
Atex Advanced Publishing Sys., 165 Lexington Rd. (400/165L), Billerica, MA 01821
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In article <1991Jun11.221534.18880@newsserver.sfu.ca>  
shephard@newsserver.sfu.ca (Gordon Shephard) writes:
   
> > Audrey (Recently De-flowered): It's only been a day.  I hope it doesn't
> >        hurt this much in a week.   

This is the most twisted thing I've read all day.

--
 David E. Coufal                                   coufal@owl.caltech.edu
           "One time I removed all the hair from a mouse 
            with Nair-Hair just to see what it looked like.
            And it looked beautiful." - David K. Lynch

In article <64621@bbn.BBN.COM> ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria) writes:



> >In article <wR5c42w163w@zitt> joe@zitt (Joe Zitt) writes:
> >
> >   The MFAP said that he'd show up again as someone else -- who?
> >
> >What he said was closer to: ``When you see me again, it won't be me.''
> >I think that what he meant was that each successive apearance of the
> >LMFAP was merely someone who looked like him: doppelgangers (und
> >treppelgangers, usw).  Note that this happens with Laura.  The first
> >Laura we see, who says she won't see Cooper for 25 years, has clear
> >eyes, while Laura/Bob, has glazed eyes.  This seems to be a
> >distinguishing mark of the doppelgangers.  Also, the only Leland we
> >see has glazed eyes, and the anti-Cooper also has glazed eyes.  Still,
> >the whole XXX Lodge sequence leaves open the question of what happened
> >to those who have died and exactly whose side the supernatural
> >entities are playing on---except for Bob, of course, who remains
> >unchanging in his Bobhood.

Exactly.  BUT...did you notice Annie's eyes when she entered the
Sycamore circle and was charmed by WE....DOPPLEGANGER EYES!!! (Look
closely!)

> >   Seems like we were right in guessing that the Waiter and the Giant were
> >   the same.
> >
> >Well, there seem to be two strains of interpretation here about what
> >the Giant's ``One and the same'' means:
> >
> >(1) Since we see the Waiter bring the coffee and the Giant go back, it
> >is the Waiter and the Giant that are ``One and the same''.  (This is
> >what I took it to mean.)
> >
> >(2) Since the Giant says ``One and the same'' as he sits down beside
> >the LMFAP, he means that the two of them are ``One and the same''.  I
> >personally disfavor this, although I did think, when I saw the two of
> >them sitting side by side that this answered Albert's question to Coop
> >about the Giant: ``Any relation to the dwarf?''

ALSO, BL and WL the same???

xxmartn@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov writes:
> >Fire, WALK WITH ME !!!!!!!!!!
> >
> >I though we had killed that one.

Jeff Martin:

Have you ever thought of writing an article with a little SUBSTANCE?
I can't tell you how annoyed I am when I see you quote an entire article,
and then add one little line that says, "Yeah I noticed that too!"  Argh!
Some of us don't have all the time in the world to be reading article after
meaningless article.  Your one/two-liner articles (there are tons of them)
waste more bandwidth than they're worth.  Not to mention your 10-line
signature.

Methinks you should take a look at the net etiquette rules.

--
bvickers@ics.uci.edu | "Only a large-scale popular movement toward
brett@ucippro.bitnet |  decentralization and self-help can arrest the
                     |  present tendency toward statism." - Aldous Huxley

In article <1991Jun11.212725.19036@zip.eecs.umich.edu> welcher@eecs.umich.edu (James Welcher) writes:
...
> >These lyrics are from a song the Indigo Girls cover called
> >"(Everybody) Get Together".  I can't recall the songwriter at the moment.

I don't know the name of the songwriter, but this song was
originally performed by the Youngbloods.

I never knew that the Indigo Girls remade it.

Boy, do I feel old now!
-- Roger Fulton roger@wrq.com

In article <9106111945.AA09997@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> ST601287@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU (Mark Hessman) writes:

     Note that Cooper's wound when the
   befanged Laura ran to him was in exactly the same place as the gunshot he
   received from Josie.

I thought it was supposed to be in the same place as where he was
wounded by Windom Earle, when Earle killed Caroline.  Cooper starts
bleeding in one room and then goes to another, where he sees Caroline
and Cooper lying on the floor, the prone Cooper with blood near his
waist.  Hmm, if he was wounded in pretty much the same place in
Pittsburgh and TP, that makes Gordon's comments about the similarities
to Pittsburgh even more pointed.

-30-
Bob

``When you see me again, it won be me.''

In article <5529@autodesk.COM> robertj@unreal.uucp (Young Rob Jellinghaus) writes:
<SPOILERS!!!!
<
<He fucking nuked the place!!!
<

No shit!

<You all know Lynch doesn't believe in happy endings.  You all KNOW that.
<Somehow, looking back, I think I would have been disappointed in anything
<any less shattering than the image we all hated and feared, Coop looking
<into the mirror at BOB.
<

This is a strange thing to say. It seems to me that all Lynch movies
have happy endings. _Eraserhead_ - Henry and Radiator Girl meet in
heaven; _Elephant Man_ - not so happy, really, but  the ending is
generally upbeat considering the horrible life led by the E man; _Dune_
- Paul saves the planet Dune; _Blue Velvet_ - it's spring!; _Wild At
Heart_ - Sailor and Lula get married and live happily ever after. And
_Twin Peaks_? Well, it's not over yet...

--
                                        John Howells
                                        howells@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov 
                                        howells@earth.arc.nasa.gov