Season 2, Episodes 21–22: Miss Twin Peaks / Beyond Life and Death — June 10, 1991–August 27, 1992

News reports out of Tacoma's public radio station KPLU state that filming has
begun in Snoqualmie of the new David Lynch film, "Fire, Walk with Me."

All I can say is, "Wow, Bob, Wow!"
-- Dave Dittrich dittrich@u.washington.edu ...!uw-beaver!u.washington.edu!dittrich

I just caught up on most of the news on TP for the summer and was surprised
to see no mention of the TP video collection being put out on the Sep. 11.
I heard a number of different things, including a boxed set of the first season
excluding the pilot episode, for about $80.  I also know from Billboard that
that particular company ( I forgot the name) has got the rights to the rest of
the episodes also, and might soon release them.  There also was something about
an alternative ending, perhaps the european version, being released the same day.
There was a screener tape available for video insiders, that said TP, on the cover
but when you took the tape out, it said on the label:  
    "So you think you really know who killed Laura Palmer?  Think again!"
It also unfortunately went on to say that it was too good to give away on a 
preview cassette.  The tape turned out to be blank!!!  I was pissed but I did
get this much info out of it!  That tape was a "screener" tape for people who
run and/or own videostores, such as one of my relatives.  I can't  be sure of
what they meant by an alternative solution to the murder, but I would guess that
it probably is the european version.  I also heard that they are starting a major
media campaign for the release of these tapes, with TP mugs, T-shirts, etc.  The
tapes are also available separately for $20 each!  

The laserdisc is being put out by Lynch himself, for $34.95 and will be out with
Wild at Heart in the middle of September.

So, fellow Peakies, it's time to march on down to the videostore and demand TP!

If anyone gets more info, please post and e-mail!

Thanks...

Niraj (nmehta@usc.edu)

"Dianne, I'm holding in my hands a small box of chocolate bunnies."
   -Agent Cooper

  What if Ben DOES NOT KNOW he is Laura's father?  Then he would not realize 

he was committing incest when he had sex with her.

According to an article heard on KCBS (CBS affiliate radio in the Bay Area)
TP-the-movie started shooting this morning in and around Snoqualmie.

"One and the same?"

  Someone posted recently that they heard a boxed set of the first season
  would be on sale for about $80?  Gee, at my local video store, they told
  me it would be about $80 per episode, and that's only if I reserve it
  ahead of time!  Did she get this wrong, or was she trying to rip me off?
_________________________________________________________________________
|                  |                                                    |
|KYLE R. KROM | "WHAT YOU ARE WITNESSING IS A FRONT THREE-QUARTER|
|PENN STATE UNIV   |    VIEW OF TWO ADULTS SHARING A TENDER MOMENT.     |
|krk4@psuvm.psu.edu|    LOOK CLOSE, IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN AGAIN."        |
|__________________|____________________________________________________|

In article <1991Sep3.063942.16864@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>  keb3@po.CWRU.Edu (Keith E. Bitely) wrote:
> >BOB apparently killed Laura Palmer through Leland.  It was the same type of
> >murder as Theresa Banks.  So, we must assume that Theresa Banks was killed
> >by BOB.  What we don't know is, was she killed by BOB the spirit or BOB
> >inhabiting a host.  And, if so, who was this host?  Leland?  Maybe I just
> >don't remember (it seems like it's been so long).  If not Leland, then
> >who? 

Just before Leland died, he admitted to Coop that "they made me kill that
Banks girl"  (Maybe he said that Teresa girl I'm not sure) but he definitely
admitted to doing it.

Brian

I just happened to be driving around the North Bend area this morning.  
I was basically just looking for standard TP sights, but was keeping my
eyes open for any suspicious activities (e.g. lots of large trucks.)
I asked at the Alpine Blossom gift shop, and all they knew was that
filming was taking place somewhere in the area, and would continue
for about 4-6 weeks.

Anyway, I was driving up Reinig Road looking for the opening scene
shot, when what do you know:  two policemen were keeping traffic from
crossing the bridge into Meadow Brook onto 394th place.  They said
they were stopping traffic intermittently while filming was taking
place.  They wouldn't say what was being filmed, but what else could
it be?

After about half an hour, they finally let me through, across the
bridge.  It turns out that they were filming on the river's edge
on the far right hand side of the bridge.  I parked and wandered
over to the area where everyone was gathered, getting pretty close
to the action.  

It was indeed Twin Peaks being filmed.  I only saw one scene being
shot over and over again before I decided to leave.  It took place
in a trailer park, and was basically two FBI agents getting the
park manager to show them to some other trailer.  The only line
I could hear well was "God damn that sun is bright" by the park
manager when he got outside.

The trailer park manager was Harry Dean Stanton (I don't know who
he is.  Someone else told me this.)  The two FBI agents were
Kiefer Sutherland and Chris Isaak (? Isaac ?).  And David Lynch was
there too of course.

Overall, I really just got very lucky in stumbling upon the place.
There were indeed lots of large trucks lining the adjacent streets,
so anybody driving through the town would have no problem noticing
that something was going on.

As far as future filming, all I was able to find out was that they
would be doing some stuff at some hospital in Seattle.  I thought
she said Green Hospital, but the closest thing seems to be 
Evergreen Hospital in Kirkland.  That would be on Friday and
Saturday she said.

Anyway, I mostly wanted to let you guys know that the filming is
indeed going on, as well as confirming some of the people that
are in it.  If you go hunting for the filming, they seem to be
pretty good about letting people watch as long as they don't get
in the way.  There were so few people there when I was watching
that I don't think they were very concerned about the crowds.

-- Mike Salisbury

keb3@po.cwru.edu (Keith E. Bitely) writes:

BOB apparently killed Laura Palmer through Leland.  It was the same type of
murder as Theresa Banks.  So, we must assume that Theresa Banks was killed
by BOB.  What we don't know is, was she killed by BOB the spirit or BOB
inhabiting a host.  And, if so, who was this host?  Leland?  Maybe I just
don't remember (it seems like it's been so long).  If not Leland, then
who?  Does this mean BOB is capable of inhabiting more than one person
since Theresa Banks died approximately a year before Laura and Laura was
being haunted by Leland/BOB since at least her early teenage years?
<end quote>

If I remember right (my tapes are not handy at the moment), Leland
mentioned (after BOB "pulled the rip cord" in the jail cell) that
"They even made me kill that Banks girl."

John Schultz (caffeine abuser)  !  ABC killed Laura Palmer
c491153@umcvmb.bitnet           !  Macintosh-free and proud of it!
c491153@umcvmb.missouri.edu     !  Subscriber to the hacker ethic

In article <1991Sep4.223345.9182@beaver.cs.washington.edu> salisbur@cs.washington.edu (Mike Salisbury) writes:

...stuff deleted on details of filming...

I heard on the radio this morning that there would be filming in the Fall City
area, and as undisclosed locations in Seattle through October. I'll have to
go to Evergreen Hospital this weekend and check for signs of activity.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

       Greg Kull                             gkull@sumax.seattleu

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I saw the Euroversion a few nights ago, and got to thinking about how the
film may have looked to its original viewers (many of whom are here, so
speak up!).

If you don't know that it is a crabbed together throwaway, the film looks
like a far different piece, with only slight similarities to the way the
show as a series worked. In the Euroversion, a community discovers a
murder. People gather, are affected by it, and react. The cops, and then
the FBI, come in and work to collect clues, all leading, we hope, to a
reasonable solution to the crime. In the end, someone we haven't seen
until then (except in a throwaway shot) reveals someone else we haven't
seen as the killer. Twentyfive years later, we see the FBI man, who
still can't make sense of things, stuck in a strange room with more
weirdness that is also powerfully meaningless.

The whole thing seems to be a work of total nihilism. Nothing that anyone
learns turns out to have anything to do with the killing, which is
a random insane act by an irrelevant madman.

The show, as it continued, seemed to go against that. By the end of 2009,
the murder had been dramatically resolved (although my pet crackpot
theory is that it wasn't >solved<), and most of the important characters
have come to some conclusive point. I firmly think, as many seem to, that
the show was intended to end there, and, indeed, should have. Over the
rest of the 2nd season, it floundered like a soggy sequel. The one
interesting thing about the end is that it ended with another touch of
hopelessness, with the hero being overtaken by evil. It's probably
significant that this happened at the point that Lynch was at the helm
again.

If the released cassette is of the Euroversion, and is followed by the
rest of the series as if the ending hadn't happened, people who catch
on to and catch up with the series on tape will be terribly confused. 1001
will pick up with the search for the killer still on, and BOB still
appearing in visions -- appearing not as an spirit of unknown origin,
but as the ghost of the mad killer. The dream in 1002 will be even less
interpretable than it was before, since it will reflect things for which
Coop was present, and things shown (for no apparent reason) to be in his
future. (The one thing gained is that the continuity error in Coop's
explanation of the dream will be apparently fixed.)

This is a nontrivial situation, since the show that pop historians will
watch will not correspond to what we saw on TV in the first run. Yet
another reason to hold on to your videocassettes...

It is happening again.      It is happening again.      It is happening again.
Joe Zitt ...cs.utexas.edu!kvue!zitt!joe (512)450-1916

In a previous article, C491153@UMCVMB.MISSOURI.EDU (John Schultz) says:

> >
> >If I remember right (my tapes are not handy at the moment), Leland
> >mentioned (after BOB "pulled the rip cord" in the jail cell) that
> >"They even made me kill that Banks girl."

Yes, I seem to remember that now...but, did they give a reason for this?  
Did Theresa have any connection to Laura?  Basically, why did Leland/BOB
kill Theresa?

Keith
-- "Gotta get away, away from Z..." The B-52's

In article <1918@cvbnetPrime.COM>, jjansen@skibum.Prime.COM (John Jansen II, Display & Devices, x4399, 5-2 2445) writes:
> > 
> >         In this weeks TIME, in the People section, there is
> >         a picture of Dave and a coffee table. In the blurb
> >         that follows.. it tells you that Dave is making
> >         furniture.. (kinda Peakish looking!!) It also says
> >         that Dave is currently working on the Movie????!!!??
> > 
> >         Is this so??
> >  
> >         -Jay
> >      """\                           Jay Jansen 
> >      @ ~0    Computervision,        UUCP: {decvax|linus|sun}!cvbnet!jjansen
> >          )   keeping Prime alive    Internet: jjansen@cvbnet.prime.com 
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

yes. They are working on the movie. They were waiting for Kyle Maclachlin to
decide if he wanted to be in the movie or not.

Could someone post the second half of the sherilyn gif file, which
appeared some time ago. I have managed to disply the top half and would
like the rest!

Ta,

Dave.

Houston Post, Sept. 5, 1991:
"Just when folks in the Cascade Mountains thought it was safe
 from chain-saw fights and macabre murders, Twin Peaks returns,
 thanks to director David Lynch. Filming of Lynch's full-length
 movie: Twin Peaks-Fire Walk with Me, is under way. The first
 scenes were set for a Snoqualmie, Wash.-area trailer park
 renamed "Fat Trout Trailer Park" for the movie. Most of the
 original cast from the recently cancelled ABC-TV series is back
 for the movie, including Kyle MacLachlan as Agent D.B. Cooper.
 Snoqualmie is about 30 miles east of Seattle."
-- \ /\ / | | | Jendrahl Erikson, K.S.C., Conscious Erisan Avatar (4a), \/ \/ | | | P.O.E.E. Chaplin, P.H.U.I. Cabal /\ /\ | | | / \/ \ | | | A.K.A. Chuck Ivy cei@po.cwru.edu

Glad to see this group still active.

Twin Peakswas done in by a combination of factors, 
primarily ABC's stupidity and Lynch's groping.

Commercial television is basically a wasteland, and this
is why it is satisfying to see programmes such as TP
make it. (I must, though, mention my vote for all-time
best American telly series, St. Elsewhere.)

Twin Peaks was a superlative series. The mystery of L. Palmer's
death, the beautiful scenery (human and otherwise), the age-old 
conflict of good versus evil, and the quirkiness of the shoiw
show in general.

I, for one, will never forget the scene where we finally saw
Bob killing Laura, wherein Laura's bloody face was grimaced 
into an animal-like, wild visage. That scene actually frightened
me, and was for me the turning point in the series. Until then all
the violence had a black comedy mask to it. Sure, there were ghastly
doings happening around Twin Peaks, but it could all be joked at.
Not after that scene. That was when I really became intellectually 
involved in the show. I pondered numerous possibilties, including\
the storyline of thke entire series being a dream in the mind of
Cooper. I did early on hit on the idea of Leland being the killer,
for it was fairly evident that he was molested as a child and was
continuing his dysfunction.

So, we are left with many questions. We still don't know much
about the red-cutained room, we don't really know anything. Cooper
is left holding a toothpaste tin looking demented, with
Bob in him. What happened to Annie, and why does he say he is
going to get her? What is Bob?

I do think Lynch is getting close to being commercialized.
Twin Peaks became fairly derivative, and this is, to me,
boring. (I was completely unimpressed by WILD AT HEART. A total 
waste of time. Everything was predictable. A shamae copared to
Eraserhead and Blue Velvet.)

Now, I can say this as a friend of David's. My older brother attended
art school with him, and I was introduced to him by Alex (my brother).
I have helped D. with some of the storlyines for the series, mostly
the Wyndham stuff, and I can say that if David was given better
service from ABC the series would still be running. I must say, though,
that David's talent is wasted on long-term, continuing storylines.
(Hence his WILD AT HEART, which is part of a series of novels.)
David has in him many stories, and he is planning to tell them.

I have told him about this network, and he was interested in the
concept of discussing T.P. via computers. I would, in my capacity
as a writer for the series and the (yes, it is being filmed) film,
like to say thank you for your loyalty and interest.

(I am communicating with your group via a friend's account,
but you can send your comments or whatever to his address.

PS: Leland did kill T. Banks. All the above questions are meant to induce
discussion and thought, which is the aim of the series, the aim of
all art.

-- ################################################################ James A. Brock, Jr. Post office Box 859, Huntsville, AL 35804 "All opinions/facts are mine, belong to no other entity"

Hello all,
   I am writing this 15 minutes after the final episode
screened in Australia (Adelaide, South Australia in particular).

  Wow ! I don't know what anyone else thinks, but I think
that was astonishing (and slightly weird). Now, I have
been avoiding this newsgroup since the US had its final
episode, as I'm allergic to spoilers ( :-), but now
I find myself with _thousands_ of questions. Has
anyone archived this newsgroup ? Please e-mail me
(or post - I would imagine many other Aussies wanting
a few spoilers now :) and tell me where I can get
some answers.

Thanks,

ObTP: Wow. Bob. Wow.    (and How's Annie ?)


-- David T Cook | e-mail: dcook@spam.adelaide.edu.au | Phone: +61 8 228 5709 Assistant Computer Manager, Stats, Pure and Applied Maths LMG, Adelaide Uni "The wonderful thing about USENET is that anyone can express their opinion." "The worrying thing is that they _do_." | Free Tibet !!

In article <1991Sep5.051537.27221@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, keb3@po.CWRU.Edu (Keith E. Bitely) writes:
> > Did Theresa have any connection to Laura?  Basically, why did Leland/BOB
> > kill Theresa?

I think he was just passing through town at the time and thought he would
kill somebody while he was there.

If you think about it, he REALLY didn't have much of a "reason" to kill Maddie,
either.

Lynch seems to love to make movies that show you that evil don't need no reason.
-- cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet...

>> > > Even sadder:  whinny fans of oddball shows like Twin Peaks can't seem
>> > > to understand that "normal TV viewers" don't want oddball shows.
>> > > These "normal" viewers number in the tens of millions:  They want
>> > > sappy sitcoms and predictable shoot-em-ups.

>> > > If you don't enjoy most of what's on American TV, it's because you're
>> > > not part of the normal society that likes garish cars, greasy fast food,
>> > > and Tony Danza.

This bodes poorly for NE.  After all, all of the descriptions for NE
were that it was offbeat, wacky, oddball, etc.  Not very mainstream,
especially when it takes place in such an offbeat place.  So after 
Maggie and Joel get together, then "the mystery is over..."

Sorry, but what's a Troy?

gkull@sumax.seattleu.edu (Greg Kull) writes:
> >
> > I heard on the radio this morning that there would be filming in the Fall City
> > area, and as undisclosed locations in Seattle through October. I'll have to
> > go to Evergreen Hospital this weekend and check for signs of activity.
> > 

I don't know this *for sure*, but I believe that the houses used as the
Palmer residence and (perhaps also) the Hayward residence are located
in Fall City.  If you take the first road right (opposite side of the
street from the Colonial Inn) on the Preston side of the big inters-
section, you'll see a couple of houses that look *very* familiar.

On the other hand, I could be wrong.  FYI, day before yesterday they
weren't there;  we checked. ;)

--
---- jbone@Sun.COM --------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------ Jeff Bone ----
                                                                   --

>> > > Even sadder:  whinny fans of oddball shows like Twin Peaks can't seem
>> > > to understand that "normal TV viewers" don't want oddball shows...

> >This bodes poorly for NE...
 
And for "Eerie, Indiana", which seems to be an attempt to fuse typical
sitcom and the Weekly World News, from what I've seem so far...

 --- Joe M.

> >Now, I can say this as a friend of David's. My older brother attended
> >art school with him, and I was introduced to him by Alex (my brother).
> >I have helped D. with some of the storlyines for the series, mostly
> >the Wyndham stuff...                                           

[stuff deleted]

I'm afraid I'd have to see some proof of this.  What do you mean you "helped"
him with storylines?  Are you credited somewhere?

> >I have told him about this network, and he was interested in the
> >concept of discussing T.P. via computers. I would, in my capacity
> >as a writer for the series and the (yes, it is being filmed) film,
> >like to say thank you for your loyalty and interest.

Again, I'm not holding my breath.  It would be wonderful to have Lynch "talk"
to us "directly," but I'll believe it (and you) when I see it.

> >James A. Brock, Jr.

Jayembee?  A quick recheck of the "Twin Peaks" Writer's List, please...?
===========================================================================  
Captain Frank A. Lauro              fal20643@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Commanding Officer                  University of Illinois
USS ALEXA, NCC 1764-D               at Champaign-Urbana
================QUOTE OF THE [INSERT TEMPORAL DESIGNATION]=================
"Y'know, I stuck up for you the other day.  Somebody said to me, 'Hey, I saw
that friend of yours, Frank Lauro, eatin' a shit sandwich!'  And I
said, 'Well, I know that's bullshit---he doesn't like bread.'"
---Lt. Commander Jeramy Alan Anderson, Primary Helmsman,
   USS ALEXA, 4 September 1991

In article <1991Sep3.013554.1360@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu>,
dtburton@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Darren Todd Burton) writes: 
> > To all of you Fenn fans out there I came across something that might interest
> > you.  Last week I found a Twin Peaks poster at a campus poster sale.  Here is
> > a discription:
> > David Lynch's
> > 
> >   TWIN PEAKS
> > 
> > 
> > ( black & white photo of sherilyn Fenn)
> > 
> >    Featuring
> > 
> > SHERILYN FENN
> > 
> > 
> > The poster really adds another dimension to the room. 

Here's a random trivia question:
What other TV show did Fenn appear in?





















A:  21 Jump Street.
    She played a girl who was being molested by her dad.

In article <4480@dali> ieevlsi2@cs.montana.edu (VLSI) writes:
> >Sorry, but what's a Troy?

Laura Palmer's pet pony, as mentioned in her (non-canonical, IMHO) diary.
Not to be confused with the pale horse seen just before Maddy's death,
which was just an ordinary death-image.

From article <91247.173933KRK4@psuvm.psu.edu>, by KRK4@psuvm.psu.edu (Kyle R. Krom):

>
> Someone posted recently that they heard a boxed set of the first season
> would be on sale for about $80? Gee, at my local video store, they told
> me it would be about $80 per episode, and that's only if I reserve it
> ahead of time! Did she get this wrong, or was she trying to rip me off?
> _________________________________________________________________________
> | | |
> |KYLE R. KROM | "WHAT YOU ARE WITNESSING IS A FRONT THREE-QUARTER|
> |PENN STATE UNIV | VIEW OF TWO ADULTS SHARING A TENDER MOMENT. |
> |krk4@psuvm.psu.edu| LOOK CLOSE, IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN AGAIN." |
> |__________________|____________________________________________________|
I'm not sure what the situation is in the US, but here, the first series minus
the pilot was released as a two video boxed set (i.e episodes 1001 - 1007). I
was able to hire it from the local shop for $6. The first seven episodes of the
second series have also been released in a similar format, and again were
available for $6.

Hope this helps....Shane
-- 
Shane Youl _--_|\
CSIRO Division of Mineral Products / \
\_.--._/
sfy@dmp.CSIRO.AU v

DPMT@UQEVE.CC.UQ.OZ.AU (Matthew S Trevor) writes:
> > ...
> >Now it's question time, questions which were no doubt done to death after 
> >the series ended in America, but as I was avoiding this news group at the 
> >time (I didn't want any surprises ruined) I've missed all the answers to 
> >questions pertaining to the last several episodes.
> > ...

And add

6. I can understand why Cooper wants to go to the bathroom at the very end,
   but I cannot understand why he squeezes the toothpaste into the sink. Is
   there any hidden meaning here, or am I just trying to analyse it too
   deeply?

I love a movie or TV program that send a shiver through me. Up until the
last episode, this had happened in about six different Twin Peaks scenes.
The last twenty minutes last night was one continuous shiver. Laura Palmers'
scream... Wonderful.

My wife and her cousin went to Snoqualmie today "In Search of"  
Kyle MacLachlan.  After driving around, visiting the Salish Lodge and the 
Snoqualmie winery, they located the current shooting site.  They managed
to meet Kyle (who has a "wimpy handshake") and watch a scence being
filmed in a trailer park.  The scene was of Kyle and Chris Isaac.  Kyle was
wearing his FBI issue three piece wool suit and sweating heavily in our
~85 degree heatwave.

According to my wife, the locals are taking it all in stride, and even
residents of the trailer park are being used as extras for the scene.

Now the two are discussing going "In Search of" Kiefer Sutherland tomorrow.
Sometimes I wish I went to nursing school so I could get my wife's schedule.
Oh well, I guess I'll have to wait for the movie like everyone else.

-- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Dan Comden, UW Staff Employment University of Washington INTERNET: danc@aretha.u.washington.edu

salisbur@cs.washington.edu (Mike Salisbury) writes:

> > After about half an hour, they finally let me through, across the
> > bridge.  It turns out that they were filming on the river's edge
> > on the far right hand side of the bridge.  I parked and wandered
> > over to the area where everyone was gathered, getting pretty close
> > to the action.  
> >  ...deleted...
> > The trailer park manager was Harry Dean Stanton (I don't know who
> > he is.  Someone else told me this.)  The two FBI agents were
> > Kiefer Sutherland and Chris Isaak (? Isaac ?).  And David Lynch was
> > there too of course.

Chris Isaak was just on the MTV music awards, live from the set of the
Twin Peaks movie, along with Kyle McLachlan. The bridge was visible in 
the background. Is that also Ronette's bridge?

Hey, maybe if Kiefer Sutherland is reprising his role from <Flashback>,
Dennis Hopper will show up as the underground radical :-).

It is happening again.      It is happening again.      It is happening again.
Joe Zitt ...cs.utexas.edu!kvue!zitt!joe (512)450-1916

brian@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Wood) writes:

>> > >investigation, Two: Cooper was aperently sent to TP to investigate Rhona
> >   ^^-- (WHY NOT?)               apparently                          Ronnie

BZZZZT! That's "Ronette". Care to throw the first stoan? :-)

It is happening again.      It is happening again.      It is happening again.
Joe Zitt ...cs.utexas.edu!kvue!zitt!joe (512)450-1916

In article <1991Sep6.015224.25931@Aus.Sun.COM> richb@Aus.Sun.COM (Rich Burridge) writes:
> >6. I can understand why Cooper wants to go to the bathroom at the very end,
> >   but I cannot understand why he squeezes the toothpaste into the sink. Is
> >   there any hidden meaning here, or am I just trying to analyse it too
> >   deeply?

Don't you know that the most evil thing you can do is to
squeeze the toothpaste tube in the middle?

Alan

Well, that's the end of the Australian run of Twin Peaks. Last night's 
episode had to have been one of the most intense of the series (yes, IMHO).
A malevolent Coop: up until now those too words would have been considered 
mutually exclusive. But Coop standing in the bathroom saying "How's Annie?" 
and giggling is a scene I shall not soon forget...

Now it's question time, questions which were no doubt done to death after 
the series ended in America, but as I was avoiding this news group at the 
time (I didn't want any surprises ruined) I've missed all the answers to 
questions pertaining to the last several episodes.


1 One of the puzzle boxes that Kathryn, Andrew and Pete were trying to open 
had a circle on one face composed of phases of the moon. Andrew would say a 
date ("Josie's birthday","Eckhart's Birthday"...) and then press _3_ of the 
moon symbols. Yet if the symbols represented dates, wouldn't he have only 
pressed one for each date?

2 When Bobby was at the Miss Twin Peaks contest, he saw Margaret at the 
bar, then turned around to see "Margaret" standing behind him. The initial 
illusion was that Margaret had moved between two locations in an impossible 
amount of time, yet the truth was revealed when the second Margaret turned 
out to be Earle. However, Margaret obviously did move quickly, for when 
Bobby turned around to face the bar again, the sleazy choreographer was 
still standing by Margaret's stool, waving his hands in empty air with a 
stunned expression on his face...

3 I understand that one of the underlying factors of the story is 
"duality". However, I had assumed the the Giant and the old man who worked 
at the Great Northern were the same, or connected in some way. Yet while 
Coop was in the Lodge, the Giant sits down next to the Little Man and says 
"One and the same". Is he refering to the dwarf, or to the old man (who was 
also in the same scene)? And if the Giant has been helping Coop, giving the 
appearance of good, just why is he in the Black Lodge?

4 Coop meets Laura in the Black Lodge, and one of the things she says is 
"I'll see you again in 25 years". Was this refering to the first dream that 
Coop had involving LP (he was an old man in the dream) or a bit of 
atmospherics/foreshadowing on the part of Lynch?

5 Does anyone know what the song was that Coop heard when he first entered 
the Lodge?

I understand that some of these questions haven't been answered by the 
show, but wild stabs in the dark will do fine.

So thats it? Half a year spent religiously following this program (no, it's 
far more than a program) and now Coop is stuck in the Black Lodge for good, 
and we'll never know the answers to our questions?

Sigh. I can understand the outrage on alt.tv.twin-peaks now...


--------------------------+
Matthew Trevor (Morpheus) | 
Uni of Queensland.  |
DPMT@uqeve.cc.uq.oz.au  |
--------------------------+-----------------------------------------------------
"We waste no part of the animal"
- Koko
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In article <4480@dali>, ieevlsi2@cs.montana.edu (VLSI) writes:
> > Sorry, but what's a Troy?

Troy was a pony given to Laura Palmer for her birthday by Ben Horne. She
loved the pony but eventually set it loose when she decided she was a truly
terrible person. I think the pony was eventually found dead or injured and had
to be destroyed. Laura believed Troy was a present from Leland when she first
got him but later discovered he came from Ben. Troy seems to be some kind of
symbol of her transition from cute little girl with the traditional pony and
sweet life to the very different character who was revealed after her death.
Troys death in a way symbolises the death of the purer aspect of laura's
personality. Its all in the secret diary. 
Sorry about the philosophising.

Margaret, Dublin, Ireland.

Joe Zitt raises some excellent points, and finishes with:
> >If the released cassette is of the Euroversion, and is followed by the
> >rest of the series as if the ending hadn't happened, people who catch
> >on to and catch up with the series on tape will be terribly confused.
 [...]
> >This is a nontrivial situation, since the show that pop historians will
> >watch will not correspond to what we saw on TV in the first run. Yet
> >another reason to hold on to your videocassettes...

I agree!  To my thinking, we, the readers of alt.tv.twin-peaks should
comprise the first cohort of pop historians writing about the show.
After all, we have an impressive volume of material already.  I'm not
sure how it would work on a practical level--or indeed, how serious I
am about this--but we ought to set ourselves up as the watchdogs for
accuracy in interpretation of the series *as* it was originally aired.
For U.S. pop-historical accounts, this would include gaps in the timing
which allowed for the famous January 26th missing-episode mystery, vari-
ations in the Lucy soundbites played in the midst of commercial breaks,
the previews, the ads for the show--heck, even the ads *sponsoring* the
show (why the sudden flurry of ads for cherry-flavored Rolaids, cherry-
flavored Preparation H, etc.?).  There is much to keep track of, and
only *we* can pull it off.  Maybe we should ask the Pop Culture depart-
ment of Bowling Green University (just a suggestion) for dedicated
library space in which to preserve our own--truly accurate--videotapes.
Maybe we should start a scholarly journal: _The_Journal_of_Twin_Peaks_
_Research_ or _The_Annals_of_Twin_Peaks_Commentary_.

As I say, I don't know how serious I am about this.  A whole lot, maybe.

--Fiona O.

 In Australia, The final episode of Twin Peaks has just been
 screened (Thurs Sept. 6), and I'm still recovering!
 I was enjoying the episode until the final scene (Coopers bathroom).
 But *THAT*, coupled with the credits marking the end of the series
 left me a little stunned. A whole new set of questions left hanging:
 Was Coopers fate seeled when he entered the Black Lodge, if not, 
 didn't he have the strength to resist Bob? I can't believe the outcome
 was how Copper planned it.- surely ?

 BTW, Leo must be *still* sweating under a basket of spiders.
 How's Annie?

> >I have helped D. with some of the storlyines for the series, mostly
> >the Wyndham stuff, and I can say that if David was given better
     ^^^^^^^

Not to appear skeptical or anything, but if you really helped with the
Windom stuff, why do you spell it differently than they did in the
series?

If you really are offering a link (indirect, but so what) to Lynch, Wow!  
Let's get some of the other nagging questions answered!


Brian WOOD    *House address 710 -- same as Blue Lady's apt in Blue Velvet
              *Just got through studying major religious works like Ben Horne
              *Live next to a grove of TREES
              *My wife's aunt's name is Annie; my sister's name is Anne
              *My wife grew up next to a forest; next street - Glastonbury

Arrgghhh!  It is happening again!

Brian

                                                    9/6/91
Hi folks,

I just came back from my Honeymoon in the Seattle area, two days of
which were spent staying at the Salish Lodge.  We managed to visit
most of the TP sites.  Although there's a bunch of things I could
talk about (and maybe will in a separate posting), the thing that
really bugs me is where that damned traincar is.  

I was led to expect that, with a little effort, I would find the
actual Laura Palmer Traincar (hereafter LPTC)...i.e., cars
that were the very ones used in the filming, and in the location
that was used in the show.  Three or four people sounded pretty
confident that they saw the real LPTC.  So what are these people seeing 
that I didn't?  Let's go over the basics.

First:  what should LPTC look like?  Well, I re-watched the Season 1
opener last night.  
- The traincar itself is dark green, kind of burnt-out looking
at the top, and a wooden staircase & bannister attached
to the front-rear (i.e. at the end of the car but facing
the camera) door.
- Behind (i.e. to the left) and attached to the above car was
an orange traincar.
- The scene itself showed two traintracks, one above the other
by one or two feet.  The foreground, lower tracks were empty of 
cars, while the upper track had the traincars on them.  The
tracks were maybe 10-15 feet apart.

Second, what is the layout of the traintracks in Snoqualmie?  A rough
map shows the town of Snoqualmie.  Along the straight part of the
track, parallel to the road is a bunch of cars that are fenced in
by a chain-link fence, with a No Trespassing sign.  Then the
tracks split into two...one bends more sharply into the woods (a),
and the other parallels the road for a while, but then parallels
the river (b).  Sorry my map does not show the exact path of the river,
I am unclear on that...apparently the road must go over a bridge
over the river just before reaching the Lodge, but I don't remember
that clearly.  Tracks are shown as hyphen-marks, the road as `equals'
marks.

                                     Several tracks here,
                                        Lots of cars
                                        in the woods        -
                                                       -        one track,
    <--- to North Bend                              -            no cars
                                           (a)  -              anywhere  -
      `downtown' Snoqualmie                 -                      -
                                         -               (b)  -
    Fenced-in traincars in park      -                   -         The Falls
                                   -                  -              
----------------------------------------------------
                                                                   Salish Lodge
==============================================================================
                         ( The road )

Now here is what other net-people said about where LPTC was.

> > From: Stewart Schultz <schultz@unixg.ubc.ca>
> > 
> > Railroad Cars (where Laura was found): just north of Village Green 
> > park.  In faded letters on the side: Great Northern Pacific 
> > Railroad.  The actual car is separate from the rest, about 50 yards
> > down the track in the woods.  It has a blue banner draped over it,
> > "Save Twin Peaks."

Stewart doesn't say which of the two tracks, but I suspect he means
the leftmost bend (a).  Down here there were many cars, engines, and
cabooses...a veritable outdoor museum.  I went a great deal down
the tracks (much farther than 50 yards) and there cetainly was no
car with a banner.  There were numerous cars of the *type* of 
car that LPTC is (dark green passenger) but none that I saw with
an orange car behind and empty tracks in the foregound.

Mark Collier <collier%com.hp.lvld.hplvec@hplb.hpl.hp.com>, describing the 
approach into town from the Salish lodge, says:

> > When you first come near town, watch for a set of railroad tracks coming out
> > of the woods from the right and beginning to parallel the road. Park and follow
> > the tracks on foot into the woods 1/8 to 1/4 of a mile and you'll see the
> > railcar in which Laura was killed. It's location in the woods is sufficiently
> > eerie.

...and clindh@abalon.se (Christer Lindh) says
 
> > Note; many people end up seeing the wrong train car, the real
> > one is reached by hiking in along railroad tracks that come out of the
> > woods just when you drive into Snoqualmie after visiting the falls.  I

Both of these are unclear, but from the sound of it, they are describing the
tracks I call (b). First of all this cannot possibly be the true LPTC
location because there is only one set of tracks here (and I followed
it all the way until it dead-ended just before a cliff).  As to
whether LPTC has now been *relocated* there, well, when I took that walk
(8-31-91) there wasn't a single car on the tracks...anywhere.

Now, jguy@lilith.EBay.Sun.COM (Jeff Bone) posting to alt.tv-twin-peaks
just a few days ago (and describing a trip that was apparently just
days after mine), gives a little more information:

> > Lastly, the directions posted earlier to the Abandoned Train Car
> > aren't very clear:  there're only about two dozen such in three
> > separate bunches in that 1/2 sq. mile!  After spending a few minutes
> > photographing what we thought was the appropriate bunch, my wife and
> > I were run off the property by a crotchity old man!  Be careful if you
> > go to look at them;  unlike the earlier poster, I found that I should
> > have payed attention to the trespassing signs.  

Here Jeff seems to be describing the (a) tracks.  Funny thing is, I
don't remember seeing any No Tresspassing signs here...the only NT
signs I saw were for the traincars in 'downtown' Snoqualmie.

Then Jeff writes:

> > At any rate, I
> > believe the "real" cars that were used in the shooting are the bunch
> > located closest to the Salish, furthest off the road and behind a big
> > dump of transformers and electrical equip.  These are also posted No
> > Trespassing, but access is easier and less public.

I think he is now describing (b).  There are several active transformers 
along these tracks that are connected with the HydroElectric PowerPlant
(not a 'dump' of them...perhaps Jeff was not talking about (b)).  This
is across the river from the Salish now...if you keep walking along these
tracks, which includes a tricky walk across a short bridge at one
point, you get some of the best views of the valley below the waterfall!
But the fact is, there are no traincars of ANY sort along (b), and I
find it hard to believe that only days later they moved traincars
there.  Since Jeff says "I believe", perhaps he didn't actually walk
down that way?  In any case, as I said before, there is only one set
of tracks along (b) so that rules out these tracks being the actual
site of the LPTC scene.  (Also, if there really were No Tresspassing
signs along (b), they had to have been very small...I didn't see
any.)

So anyway, be warned, future Snoqualmie pilgrims:  the true LPTC cannot
be easily found.  I am willing to entertain the idea that I missed
some *third* set of tracks, but I'll need to be convinced with some
explicit description of where they were.  Also it's possible that
LPTC was among the dozens of cars along track (a) and I missed them...
it was raining and I was poorly dressed for it, so I was not as
thorough as I would have liked.  The only other remaining possibility 
is that the LPTC was farther down the (a) tracks than I wandered.
I went down at least as far as the other people described (1/2 mile).
With my binoculars I looked further down the tracks and about
1/4 mile farther were some sheds, no cars.  So if LPTC is down (a),
it's nearly a mile in!

Cheers,
Greg Sandell
sandell@ils.nwu.edu (Evanston, IL)
-- Greg Sandell sandell@ils.nwu.edu

I got hooked on Twin Peaks near the beginning of the second season, and
am DYING to get a hold of the first season.  I know that the first 7 hours
will be sold on videotape, but does anyone know where I could get a hold of
the rest of the first season (or at least most of it)?  Any help would be
greatly appreciated.
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Internet/CSnet: mhw@cs.brown.edu | Mark Weaver BITNET: mhw@BROWNCS.BITNET | Box 2160, Brown University UUCP: uunet!brunix!mhw | Providence, RI 02912

I watched TP in the UK.  When I was in the US on vacation, I
watched the end of the episode in which Leland died in jail.
At the very end, perhaps after the main part of the show had
ended, Leland was shown on his back in the cell.  And he moved.
Have I imagined this?  It didn't happen in the UK, but the
little bits just before commercials (where Lucy says "Have a
doughnut, Twin Peaks will be rigght back) and the "next week
in twin peaks" stuff weren't ever shown in the UK; and I know
of one case (Ms. Jones attacking Truman) that was edited in
the UK.  SO what happened in the UK doesn't necessarily tell
me the answer.

I've received several inquiries about the train cars my wife and I
found (including one guy who seemed very skeptical, as if I'd made
the whole thing up --- gimme a break, will ya!  :)

Anyway, here are more specifics on where we found what I firmly
believe are the cars in question:

The spur off into the woods *after* the fenced in group is the right bunch.
The yellow car and *the* car are right there;  it does look as if a couple
of the other cars have been pulled off down the tracks a bit.

(Please note that all the exterior shots of these cars were filmed at the
same time as the pilot (I believe), in Feb. of '89;  it looked to me like the
cars have been moved around some since.  Also note that the scene apparently
was shot from the far side of the tracks from Sno. --- this threw me at first
until I figured out what they had done.)

Here's a rough map:

\y
(crotchity old man) |x
  /z /
(Sno.)the Log/     [fenced cars]    t/        Salish
---------------------------------------------------------------


Where "t" is the transformer yard, x is the "yellow car" and the "Laura"
car, and y is another couple of cars that (I believe) were pulled back
along the tracks at the time the pilot was shot.  After rewatching the
pilot tape, I'm certain that the Laura car and the yellow car are these
cars.  z marks the first set of cars we looked at, not the right ones
(this set of tracks dead-ends --- I dunno about the others, we didn't
go back that far.)


Hope this helps;  can anybody up in that area confirm?


Yrs,


--
---- jbone@Sun.COM --------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------ Jeff Bone ----
                                                                   --

I have recieved many messages as to the grammer, punctuation, etc of some of 
my posteings. I am sorry if they were dificult to read. I am acessing this 
net through a BBS and thre is line noise sometimes (like now). It messes up 
my ability to delete and I can't read the screen clearly. Sorry if ir caused 
a problem.

I have only a few minutes to update the group
about the latest developments in the film:

It has been difficult to coordinate the 
shooting, for many of the TP regulars are
actually quite busy. It seems that the lot
of them, especially Kyle, have received
many offers/scripts.

We of course don't particularly relish that
situation, but we are working within the 
restrictions.

David and I had a short meeting yesterday
afternoon about the television vista (it seems
that NBC has been attempting to reach the production
company and wishes to discuss the possibility of a
TP television revival. We have, at the moment, no
comment.

I have discussed with David the possibility of 
submitting to an interview conducted by your group;
he was receptive to the idea, for David truly believes
in TP. I will try to arrange some type of format by which
we could conduct such an interview. In the meantime perhaps
you can compile some sort of list and I will see how it 
progresses from there.

Again, I am posting via a friend's address, and as this
sort of communication is new to me, I apologise for any
mistakes.

Again, thanks for your support.

Regards,

Colin

-- ################################################################ James A. Brock, Jr. Post office Box 859, Huntsville, AL 35804 "All opinions/facts are mine, belong to no other entity"

The following is the actual text that WILL appear in this Sunday's edition
of Parade, which is a Sunday insert that appears in many newspapers.

This article is on page 20, Setptember 8, 1991 of Parade Magazine

Headline:  Twin Peaks Lives

"Although 'Tweakies' won't be able to follow Twin Peaks this fall--
the eerie TV series created by the director David Lynch is off ABC's
sechedule--they will be able to stock up on cherry pie, doughnuts and coffee
and screen a videocassette version of the two-hour Twin Peaks pilot, due out
next Wednesday.  The last 15 minutes are new and give clues to the series'
central mystery (who killed Laura Palmer?) and to the killer's motivation.  And
the word is that the video version -- in keeping with its director's fondess
for suprises-- features a differnt killer.

Speculation about the series which earned 18 Emmy nominations, has included a
second two-hour conclusion that takes up where June's finale left off--with FBI
Agent Dale Cooper (Kyle Maclachlan), the series' hero, possessed by the evil
spirit BOB.

The latest word:  A film titled Twin Peaks:  Fire Walk With Me-- directed by
David Lynch--just started shooting, for release next spring.  A prequel to the
TV series, the film covers the last seven days of Laura Palmer's life.  At
press time, Lynch and his partner, Mark Frost, still were firming up the cast."

Below the article is a picture with the following caption:
"Sherilyn Fenn and Kyle MacLachlan in scene from Twin Peaks--off TV but not
dead yet."


That's all folks...


Bert Nelson
Weber State Univeristy
bnelson@cc.weber.edu

The following is a compilation of FTP sites that I got a few months ago
off the net.  I think its worth re-posting since there will more interest in
the months to come due to the Pilot begin released on video and the movie
coming in the Spring of 1992.
Message-ID: <6SEP199113110132@cc.weber.edu>
Organization: Weber State University ComSci Department
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  

It's been a long time since I checked these out, so you'll have to try them out
on your own.


There is an anonymous FTP site for much of the material in list (L), and
some of the material in list (R), thanks to Peter Asenstorfer at the
University of South Australia (peter@audrey.sait.edu.au). The site is:

  audrey.sait.edu.au [130.220.16.88]   directory  /pub/twin-peaks 

Items currently in this archive are marked below by "ftp" in the margin.

dawson@epps.kodak.com

======================
Lists and Compilations
======================

The following lists are updated periodically and reposted to alt.tv.twin-peaks
by their owners.

L1. Annotated timeline for TP episodes broadcast to date --
ftp Edwin Nomura, enomura@sdcc13.ucsd.edu
    (120 K)
#ftp Keith Dawson, dawson@epps.kodak.com
    (Formatted for Macintosh MS Word v4.0)
#    (84 K) (34 pp.)

L2. TP cast to date --
ftp David Ernest Coufal, coufal@owl.caltech.edu 
    (10 K)

L3. Credits for each episode --
ftp David Ernest Coufal, coufal@owl.caltech.edu 
    ( > 82 K)

L4. Answers to frequently asked questions --
ftp Janet M. Swisher, swsh@ellis.uchicago.edu
#   (15 K)
#   (4 K) -- no-spoilers version

L5. Compilation of favorite quotes --
#ftp Charles D. Kincaid, statman@whale.ufl.edu
ftp (Final Rob Jellinghaus <robertj@Autodesk.com> edition published 2/14/91.)
    (37 K)

L6. Cribsheet to TP resources --
ftp Keith Dawson, dawson@epps.kodak.com
#    (7 K)

L7. Symbols/motifs in the Twin Peaks Universe --
ftp Jeffrey Koga, 6600koga@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu
    (2.4 K)

L8. Oeuvres of TP contributors
    David Ernest Coufal, coufal@owl.caltech.edu 
ftp  writers          (5 K)
ftp  directors        (5 K)
ftp  actors/actresses (15 K)
    (all movies/books each artist has been associated with)

R8. Transcript of second-season TP press kit --
ftp Dave Coufal, coufal@owl.caltech.edu

R9. Article "Appreciating alt.tv.twin-peaks"
#ftp Fiona Oceanstar, fi@grebyn.com
    (10 K)
#    (published in "Twin Peaks Gazette," March 1991)

R10: Book: TWIN PEAKS Behind The Scenes
     An Unofficial Visitors Guide to Twin Peaks
     by Mark Altman (c) 1990 Pioneer Books
     ISBN #1-55698-284-4
     $14.95/$19.95 Canada
     145 pages, 8.5"x11" paperbound


-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bert Nelson
Weber State University
bnelson@cc.weber.edu

In article <85339@brunix.UUCP> mhw@cs.brown.edu (Mark Weaver) writes:
> >I got hooked on Twin Peaks near the beginning of the second season, and
> >am DYING to get a hold of the first season.  I know that the first 7 hours
> >will be sold on videotape, but does anyone know where I could get a hold of
> >the rest of the first season (or at least most of it)?  Any help would be
> >greatly appreciated.

The first seven episodes WERE the whole first season.  The pilot (which is
not technically considered part of either season, since it was shot months
before) is being released by a separate company, and the seven one-hour
episodes of that short first season are all to be released.  No word
on when the second season comes out.

But you haven't seen the first season?  Ooh, are you in for a treat...

In article <3036@anaxagoras.ils.nwu.edu> sandell@ils.nwu.edu (Greg Sandell) writes:
> >
> >                                     Several tracks here,
> >                                        Lots of cars
> >                                        in the woods        -
> >                                                       -        one track,
> >    <--- to North Bend                              -            no cars
> >                                      ==== (a)  -              anywhere  -
> >      `downtown' Snoqualmie         =       -                      -
> >                                  =      -               (b)  -
> >    Fenced-in traincars in park  =   -                   -         The Falls
> >                                =  -                  -              
> >--------------------------------=-------------------
> >                                =                                  Salish Lodge
> >==============================================================================
> >                         ( The road )
> >

The correct answer is (a). The LPTC is on the right as you walk down the tracks.
I marked the dirt road (which is blocked by a chain link gate) on the map.
You can follow the dirt road to the end but you're less likely to get caught
trespassing if you follow the tracks.

>> >> down the track in the woods.  It has a blue banner draped over it,
>> >> "Save Twin Peaks."

As of 8/25/91, the banner was not there.

> >So anyway, be warned, future Snoqualmie pilgrims:  the true LPTC cannot
> >be easily found.

I walked passed them on the way in because there were other cars in the way
blocking the view. I spotted them easily as I walked back out. I followed
the previously posted instructions by Larry Yaeger.

> >Also it's possible that
> >LPTC was among the dozens of cars along track (a) and I missed them...

Yep, you missed 'em. There is a train of cars on the main track (a) which
blocks the view of LPTC. Go around this train and come back. Obviously, this
blocking train was not there during the filming.

> >is that the LPTC was farther down the (a) tracks than I wandered.
> >I went down at least as far as the other people described (1/2 mile).
> >With my binoculars I looked further down the tracks and about
> >1/4 mile farther were some sheds, no cars.  So if LPTC is down (a),
> >it's nearly a mile in!

Nope, it's there but there are a lot of other cars in front of it.
When you see the LPTC, there is no doubt it is the same car.
As has been said before, the two cars are together on a track by themselves
which is slightly elevated from the main track and the two tracks are
separated by 15 feet. Also, the weeds have grown some since the filming but
not that much.

A further description: There is a dirt road (marked No Traspassing) which
roughly parallels track (a). The LPTC is just across the tracks from the end
of the road.

> >
> >Cheers,
> >Greg Sandell
> >sandell@ils.nwu.edu (Evanston, IL)

Steve Herring        stevenh@tekig1.PEN.TEK.COM        (503) 627-1498

In <38606@janus.trl.oz> gellert@janus.trl.oz (Dennis Gellert) writes:


> > In Australia, The final episode of Twin Peaks has just been
> > screened (Thurs Sept. 6), and I'm still recovering!

Agreed.

> > I was enjoying the episode until the final scene (Coopers bathroom).
> > But *THAT*, coupled with the credits marking the end of the series
> > left me a little stunned. A whole new set of questions left hanging:
> > Was Coopers fate seeled when he entered the Black Lodge, if not, 
> > didn't he have the strength to resist Bob? I can't believe the outcome

Remember that the Black Lodge was plagued with doppelgangers (sp?).
Cooper might *still* be in the lodge or transported somewhere else.  So
that might be a completely fake Coop (there was at least one Cooper
double in the lodge.)

Other questions, did Ben Horne recover from the blow on the head and is
he still going to be good?  Did Audrey get killed in the blast at the
vault.  I assume Andrew and Pete could not possibly have survived that.
What is Big Ed going to do now that Nadine is suddenly herself again?
What is Major Briggs going to do with the information Laura Palmer's mom
just gave him?  Why does the log lady carry a log?

These and other questions await answers.

> > BTW, Leo must be *still* sweating under a basket of spiders.

Nah, he must have fallen asleep eventually. :-)  Then the spiders
probably just quietly left the cage and he was very surprised to wake up
again.

Lynn
-- A sig a day keeps the system adminstrator at bay! cplma@marlin Disclaimer; there has been no opinion in this post. If you read something you thought was an opinion, you had best see your doctor immediately. There was no opinion.

From article <6SEP199112574451@cc.weber.edu>, by bnelson@cc.weber.edu (Bert Nelson):

> This article is on page 20, Setptember 8, 1991 of Parade Magazine
>
> Headline: Twin Peaks Lives
>
> "Although 'Tweakies' won't be able to follow Twin Peaks this fall--
--------

Ugh!!! This sounds like the snack food (insert Dave Letterman's
incredulous laugh) that's Gelled not Baked.

What's the "official designation?" Peaks freaks? Peak-heads?

JMC
-- 
chandoni@husc9.harvard.edu | I will not yell fire in a crowded classroom
John-Marc Chandonia | I will not yell fire in a crowded classroom
Graduate Biophysics Program | I will not yell fire in a crowded classroom
Harvard University | I will not yell fire ...

It has been my guess that there is a connection between fire and water in the
show.  Fire/water duality.

Water is a cleansing item.  Pete loves to fish, LP was found near water,
Window Earl observed Coop while he was on the lake with Annie, Bob left Leland
when the water from the fire sprinklers hit him.  It sort of mad Bob crazier.
When major Briggs returns, at the police station, Coop looks at a photo of
the marks on the majors neck. Water drips onto the photo.  Coop and Briggs
were fishing and therefore near water.  The white lodge may have a water connection.

Fire is the around is several scenes.   Windom Earls soul is taken with a burst 
of fire.  The fire at the mill. Remember the poem from the one arm man and Leland.

"Through the dark and futures past
Magician longs to see
one path out between to worlds
fire walk with me."

So, you won't find Coop going to purify himself with the water.  He won't touch
it.  I think Coop is trying to fight his evil self in that scene.

> > I love a movie or TV program that send a shiver through me. Up until the
> > last episode, this had happened in about six different Twin Peaks scenes.
> > The last twenty minutes last night was one continuous shiver. Laura Palmers'
> > scream... Wonderful.

I am not sure if LP is always LP.  One time when she screams and moves close to
Coop, the face is strobed with light, you can see Windom Earls Face! If you play
it back one frame at time you will see this.  So is it WE playing LP or Visa Verse?
Perhaps it is Bob.

Wayne J. Rasmussen

In a previous article, wjr@PHOENIX.SCH.Symbolics.COM () says:

> >
> >I am not sure if LP is always LP.  One time when she screams and moves close to
> >Coop, the face is strobed with light, you can see Windom Earls Face! If you play
> >it back one frame at time you will see this.  So is it WE playing LP or Visa Verse?
> >Perhaps it is Bob.
> >

If I remember correctly from way back when in June, it seemed to me that
you could tell the dopplegangers from the real people because of their
eyes.  The dopplegangers tended to have hazel-blue liquidy eyes with small
or no pupils...whereas the real people had their real eyes.  

Of course, it's been awhile and I could be wrong...:)

Keith
-- "Life IS a soap opera. Didn't you know? This is Daytime TV for G*d" -a lady friend o' mine Vote #3 on issue #306 in freenet.pub-sq.kiosk voting area. Thanks!!

In article <1991Sep8.001229.17113@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> keb3@po.CWRU.Edu (Keith E. Bitely) writes:
> >
> >In a previous article, wjr@PHOENIX.SCH.Symbolics.COM () says:
> >
>> >>
>> >>I am not sure if LP is always LP.  One time when she screams and moves close to
>> >>Coop, the face is strobed with light, you can see Windom Earls Face! If you play
>> >>it back one frame at time you will see this.  So is it WE playing LP or Visa Verse?
>> >>Perhaps it is Bob.
>> >>
> >
> >If I remember correctly from way back when in June, it seemed to me that
> >you could tell the dopplegangers from the real people because of their
> >eyes.  The dopplegangers tended to have hazel-blue liquidy eyes with small
> >or no pupils...whereas the real people had their real eyes.  
> >
> >Of course, it's been awhile and I could be wrong...:)


 If memory serves,  at least one of the Lauras in the Lodge
 was wearing SUNGLASSES!

 And didn't Leland/Bob seem mighty interested in the sunglasses
that Maddie was wearing?  The glasses that Laura gave her?

 Bud

-- Dr. William K Glunt | Are you ABNORMAL? postdoctoral loonie | Then you are probably better than most people! U of Kentucky math dept | Are alien space monsters bringing a STARTLING NEW home phone 606 258 8864 | WORLD? from _The book of the SubGenius_

In article <9074@cs.tulane.edu> <wjr@PHOENIX.SCH.Symbolics.COM> writes:
> >So, you won't find Coop going to purify himself with the water.  He won't touch
> >it.  I think Coop is trying to fight his evil self in that scene.

If such is the case, I wonder how long the other folks in TP can stand
being around Coop, not having showered for days. With the current pace
of 1 episode = 1 day in TP, then ....


Louie

In article <1991Sep7.131822.18253@marlin.jcu.edu.au> cplma@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Lynn Alford) writes:
> >Remember that the Black Lodge was plagued with doppelgangers (sp?).
> >Cooper might *still* be in the lodge or transported somewhere else.  So
> >that might be a completely fake Coop (there was at least one Cooper
> >double in the lodge.)

The interesting conclusion I came to with respect to the doppelgangers is
that great good or bad can be performed through the exchange of doppelgangers
between the Black Lodge and the outside world.

> >Other questions, did Ben Horne recover from the blow on the head and is
> >he still going to be good?  Did Audrey get killed in the blast at the
> >vault.  I assume Andrew and Pete could not possibly have survived that.
> >What is Big Ed going to do now that Nadine is suddenly herself again?
> >What is Major Briggs going to do with the information Laura Palmer's mom
> >just gave him?  Why does the log lady carry a log?

Doesn't the log hold the spirit of her husband? Remember how Josie died and
we saw her face in the wooden cupboard.


-- Jason Haines INTERNET:jason@runxtsa.runx.oz.au UUCP: uunet!runxtsa.runx.oz.au!jason ACSNet: jason@runxtsa.runx.oz _______________________________________________________________________

wjr@PHOENIX.SCH.Symbolics.COM writes:

> > "Through the dark and futures past
> > Magician longs to see
> > one path out between to worlds
> > fire walk with me."

Yow! Has anyone been keeping track of the variants of this that have shown
up here? 

For the >last time<... It can be heard clearly as:

"Fluid markings of new shoes cast
Their malicious songs to thee,
Then pass out obscene new girls;
Fryers cluck with glee."

It is happening again.      It is happening again.      It is happening again.
Joe Zitt ...cs.utexas.edu!kvue!zitt!joe (512)450-1916

In article <7618@lectroid.sw.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:
> >In article <1991Sep5.051537.27221@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, keb3@po.CWRU.Edu (Keith E. Bitely) writes:
>> >> Did Theresa have any connection to Laura?  Basically, why did Leland/BOB
>> >> kill Theresa?
> >
> >I think he was just passing through town at the time and thought he would
> >kill somebody while he was there.


This is obscure and off the wall, but what the heck.  On page 120
of the diary, Jacque gives Laura a bunch of drugs wrapped in a page
of fleshworld magazine.  The magazine page shows "a guy built kind of
like Jacques, kneeling in front of a really pretty blond girl. "
She goes on to say that the girl was the prettiest girl she had ever seen,
and Jacques had written on it, "thinking of you, fantasy girl."  The
man was kissing her feet like he adored her, the girl had a parrot on her 
shoulder.

I thought that the "guy" in the picture really was jacques, and the girl
was theresa banks.  Jacques would do something like kissing a womans feet,
because he was like a baby in bed, wanting to be dominated sexually.
The bird on the shoulder fits.  Jacque sends in pictures of laura and her
friend, why not Theresa too?  Maybe theresa got it right after a photo
session at the cabin.

In article <1991Sep2.214000.5442@risky.ecs.umass.edu> giovin@risky.ecs.umass.edu (Rocky J Giovinazzo) writes:
> >                                          I did like the Black Lodge
> >plotline and was completely shocked to actually _see_ the Black Lodge in
> >the end.  
> >
That was a major disappointment for me: I had imagined all kinds of
things for the Black Lodge, but red drapes and armchairs? That was
(IMHO) really weak. Even a simple fog would have been better. The only
interesting thing was the 'distorted room' visual illusion, which was
hardly noticeable - in the scene with the giant, when the giant walks
away to sit by the dwarf, the giant appears to shrink. _That_ got my
interest level up.

The other disappointment, of course, is that the series ended with so
many loose ends, and no sign of a continuation. What'll I watch now?

Steve.

wjr@PHOENIX.SCH.Symbolics.COM writes:

> > In article <1991Sep6.015224.25931@Aus.Sun.COM> richb@Aus.Sun.COM (Rich Burrid
>> > > DPMT@UQEVE.CC.UQ.OZ.AU (Matthew S Trevor) writes:
>>> > > > ...
>>> > > >Now it's question time, questions which were no doubt done to death after 
>>> > > >the series ended in America, but as I was avoiding this news group at the 
>>> > > >time (I didn't want any surprises ruined) I've missed all the answers to 
>>> > > >questions pertaining to the last several episodes.
>>> > > > ...
>> > > 
>> > > And add
>> > > 
>> > > 6. I can understand why Cooper wants to go to the bathroom at the very end,
>> > >    but I cannot understand why he squeezes the toothpaste into the sink. Is
>> > >    there any hidden meaning here, or am I just trying to analyse it too
>> > >    deeply?
> > 
> > It has been my guess that there is a connection between fire and water in the
> > show.  Fire/water duality.
> > 
> > Water is a cleansing item.  Pete loves to fish, LP was found near water,
> > Window Earl observed Coop while he was on the lake with Annie, Bob left Lelan
> > when the water from the fire sprinklers hit him.  It sort of mad Bob crazier.
> > When major Briggs returns, at the police station, Coop looks at a photo of
> > the marks on the majors neck. Water drips onto the photo.  Coop and Briggs
> > were fishing and therefore near water.  The white lodge may have a water conn
> > 
> > Fire is the around is several scenes.   Windom Earls soul is taken with a bur
> > of fire.  The fire at the mill. Remember the poem from the one arm man and Le
> > 
> > "Through the dark and futures past
> > Magician longs to see
> > one path out between to worlds
> > fire walk with me."
> > 
> > So, you won't find Coop going to purify himself with the water.  He won't tou
> > it.  I think Coop is trying to fight his evil self in that scene.
> > 
>> > > I love a movie or TV program that send a shiver through me. Up until the
>> > > last episode, this had happened in about six different Twin Peaks scenes.
>> > > The last twenty minutes last night was one continuous shiver. Laura Palmers
>> > > scream... Wonderful.
> > 
> > I am not sure if LP is always LP.  One time when she screams and moves close 
> > Coop, the face is strobed with light, you can see Windom Earls Face! If you p
> > it back one frame at time you will see this.  So is it WE playing LP or Visa 
> > Perhaps it is Bob.
> > 
> > Wayne J. Rasmussen

I thought that bob played everyone in the Black lodge and that every one 
meets there duble there it they can face it then they go to the white lodge 
Cooper ran away from his duble so it follows that he will be trapped in the 
Black Lodge.

Many of you are speeking as though we are going to find out  what will 
happen to Coop. The show was canseled. Does any one know of any continuatoin 
of the story that I don't? The movie takes place before the show from what  
I've heard. So is there a book or somthing coming out?

Here are my observations of the final two hours of TP......

1. in the beginning WE came in and talked to leo...and his face was white
and his mouth/teeth were black. why was this so? was it the remains of one
of his disguises or had something weird happened to him? the last disguise
i remember him in before that was the horse one with leo!

2. the black lodge scene was absolutely brilliant. did anyone notice that
whilst agent cooper was in the black lodge that his major parts of his life
were flashing before his eyes( maybe as a premintion of his death). firstly
there was the initial dream sequence room where he met back with the LMFP 
and laura, then laura screaming---maybe signifying her death( ie. when we
saw her scream in one of the other episodes in which we see bob couched over her
etc.), then agent cooper was staggering around with the bullet wound, then
he saw himself lying on the floor next to caroline..which changed between her
and annie, then there was WE with annie.
i thought all of this was coop seeing his life flash before his eyes
.....because lets face it i think coop is going to eventually die ( boo hoo )
as if he is possessed by BOB then we BOB wants out of coop then just remember
what happened to leland when BOB left him! sad but true!

3. the scene in which WE asks coop for his soul.....was strange.
after he asks him then BOB appears and says he cant ask for it and then says
i will take his soul...then we see a flame spurt from the top of his head.
   i think that WE was already possessed by BOB and when he did (WE) asked for
it i think that coop's fate was sealed. the flame from the top of WE head 
might have been BOB leaving him ( and in the process killing him). right after
that we saw coop doppelganger appear and chase after the good coop. when the
doppelganger caught up to coop we immediately saw BOB flash up in front of the 
screen ( maybe signally that coop was then possessed )

4. the final scene with coop waking up in bed and asking how annie was i 
thought coop himself fighting BOB. when he got into the bathroom and squeezed
the toothpaste out and then started saying "how's annie"...was BOB laughing at
coop's efforts in trying to fight him.

Overall i thought the final 2 hours was excellent( no disappointment) and i will
never forget the black lodge scene or the final 'how's annie' scene.

if this stuff has already been digusted before(sorry) but i avoided all 
discussion of the final two hours as not to spoil it for when i finally got to
see it.

cant wait for the movie !!

brett.

The final two hours was excellent! Many of you said that it was 
disappointing, that if left to many unanswered questions..!!!
Well i thought differently! i thought it quite appropiate that TP
concluded with a memorable black lodge scene we it started with a memorable,
and at the time a most confusing, dream sequence. Just as we pondered over 
the weird dream sequence, we can now ponder over the many complexities of 
the black lodge scene(and isn't there some pondering to be done).
I think that TP is not totally dead! I think one day that we may well
find out how cooper and BOB get on together....who survived the bomb blast( if
anyone)....if ben horne is dead from the knock on the head......how donna 
copes with her father being ben and that her father might be dead...etc.
David Lynch could have easily given us all want we wanted to see...
good triumph over evil (coop defeat WE) and tie up all the loose ends.But he 
didn't...... he thought of what we would most hate to see and took that option.
that's the man he is ...has he ever given people a nice easy to follow ending
to any of his work!!..has he ever conformed!
Frankly i would have been disappointed if he had.
Good job David.

brett.

In <20556@darkstar.ucsc.edu> kitty@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Kitty) writes:


> >In article <7618@lectroid.sw.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:
>> >>In article <1991Sep5.051537.27221@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, keb3@po.CWRU.Edu (Keith E. Bitely) writes:
>>> >>> Did Theresa have any connection to Laura?  Basically, why did Leland/BOB
>>> >>> kill Theresa?
>> >>
>> >>I think he was just passing through town at the time and thought he would
>> >>kill somebody while he was there.
> >I thought that the "guy" in the picture really was jacques, and the girl
> >was theresa banks.  Jacques would do something like kissing a womans feet,
> >because he was like a baby in bed, wanting to be dominated sexually.
> >The bird on the shoulder fits.  Jacque sends in pictures of laura and her
> >friend, why not Theresa too?  Maybe theresa got it right after a photo
> >session at the cabin. 

Well, there is no evidence against it, but I doubt this is the case.
Theresa was killed almost exactly one year before Laura was (Feb '88
as told to us by Cooper/Albert/Andy in reference to Leo and the Hungry
Horse back in 1006 or so.)  Now, this doesn't necessarily rule out
Theresa here, but I doubt Laura's excapades with Jacque went on for
over a year.

s
j

1: Was there something strange with Lauras shades ? It seemed to me that when
Maddie wore them (when she met Donna RR to give the shades to her) she seemed
'bad'. I believe that was when she trashed her glasses saying she hated them
and that she was never going to wear them again. It seemed to me like a bit out
of character. Also when Donna wore the shades, and she went to jail to see
James. That was (IMHO) out of character for Donna (almost pulling James through
the bars). So what about it ?

2: The pattern of blood on Coopers face in the end scene looked a lot like the
pattern of the blood on Annie when Harry found her by the 'oilpool'.

Sture

Hey, could someone in this news group sum up all they know about what is
happening with new Twin Peaks movies, sequels, series, releases, reedits, or
additions to old stuff (eg the extra 15 minutes added on to the first 2 hour
pilot), and so on.
Also, am I right in assuming that there was a European movie length version of
the pilot which had the murder being solved (or not solved)
in the way it was in the actual full series?
Im new to this news group, so hi to you all.

c9104666@wombat.newcastle.edu.au writes:
> >Here are my observations of the final two hours of TP......
> > ...
> >
> >3. the scene in which WE asks coop for his soul.....was strange.
> >after he asks him then BOB appears and says he cant ask for it and then says
> >i will take his soul...then we see a flame spurt from the top of his head.

It's been pointed out to me (by a fellow worker here), that the scenes inside
the Black Lodge do not appear in a linear chronological order (either forward
or backward). This would certainly explain a lot of the contradictions.

> >cant wait for the movie !!

If the movie is a prequel to Laura Palmers death, I think I'd prefer to see
what happens after that final two hour episode. I hope one of the major
networks does pick up the option.

In article <9109052215.AA29749@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> DPMT@UQEVE.CC.UQ.OZ.AU (Matthew S Trevor) writes:
> >
> >3 I understand that one of the underlying factors of the story is 
> >"duality". However, I had assumed the the Giant and the old man who worked 
> >at the Great Northern were the same, or connected in some way. Yet while 
> >Coop was in the Lodge, the Giant sits down next to the Little Man and says 
> >"One and the same". Is he refering to the dwarf, or to the old man (who was 
> >also in the same scene)? 

I got the impression that he was referring to _both_ of them, implying some
sort of bizarre Trinity (The Father, The Son, and the Holy Drool-cup).

> >And if the Giant has been helping Coop, giving the 
> >appearance of good, just why is he in the Black Lodge?

Seemed to me that the two Lodges co-exist either next to or within eachother.
When Coop first re-enters the "Lodges," he is in the White Lodge (the dwarf
says something like "The next time you see me, it won't be me" when Coop
leaves the first "room").

Andy

salmieri@whitebase.ukp.com (Gregory Salmieri) writes:

> >Just because Twin Peaks was cansiled doesn't meen it has to end. Other 
> >people could write books on the subject, continuations of the plot, etc. 
> >Infact if any one is interested we could try to brain storm up a few 
> >episodes via this net and E-mail. Then we could put it in a files and mail 
> >it to who ever is interested, or board enoulgh to read it. If any one is 
> >interested contact me. I'me shore we could set somthing up. Maby come up 
> >with the plot and have diferent people write diferent sections? What ever If 
> >you don't think TP should end just continue it. I'me shore that we have 
> >enough deluded creativity here to come uo ith an episode or two worth of 
> >text. Then we can do whatever we want with it including sendit out to people 
> >who are interested as a TP sirial or send it to Lnch.

Not wanting to sound offensive, or confrontational, but your spelling really
*IS* terrible.

But on to the main body...

Yes, sounds interesting - If you ask me they didn't take enough notice of
the "white" lodge, although this probably would be a massive positive thing
for all involved, and TP seems all about one step forward, five steps back.

Nevertheless, there are two creative-types here interested in any further
developments in this area.

MHG.

rodney_lochner.humancomputer@markov.uts.edu.au writes:

> >Hey, could someone in this news group sum up all they know about what is
> >happening with new Twin Peaks movies, sequels, series, releases, reedits, or
> >additions to old stuff (eg the extra 15 minutes added on to the first 2 hour
> >pilot), and so on.
> >Also, am I right in assuming that there was a European movie length version of
> >the pilot which had the murder being solved (or not solved)
> >in the way it was in the actual full series?
> >Im new to this news group, so hi to you all. 

Allright, I'll give it a bash:

There is a movie "Twin Peaks: Fire walk with me" being filmed at this very
moment it features "most" if not all of the regulars, plus Keiffer Sutherland
and Chris Isaak as FBI agents, and Harry Dean Stanton as the proprietor of
the  "Fat Trout caravan park".

NBC too have approached the production company for possible tv airing (and
maybe [?] continutation of the series).

The movie is a "prequel" to the series, covering the last 7 days of Laura
Palmer's life.


The Euromovie:

The european pilot movie is the same as the movie version of TP available in
video rental stores here in oz (N.B. NOT the compiled episode tapes). It is
identical to the U.S. version (the one played on TV here), except that there
is something like 15 extra minutes tacked-onto the end. In these 15 minutes,
Sarah (?) Palmer remembers seeing bob in Laura's room that mornin (when
looking for her). Eventually Coop and truman get called to the hospital, where
a *REAL* Mike points them to a *REAL* bob in the basement (appears to be a
stanist or necromancer), an Mike shoots bob. NOW things get weird! - you
remember the dream sequence? ("sometimes my arms bend back.", etc.), this
is more well-explained in the Euro-version, it is subtitled as being 25
years later, it's a bit longer too, I think. You might remember in the series
that when Coop tells lucy and truman about the dream, he tells of these extra
15 mins ("sara palmer, mike shoots bob, 25 years later, etc.") which seems
out of place. There is also a referance in the secret diary, I'm told about
Laura sitting in a red-curtained room with a little man, and an old man, or
something like that).

I THINK that the extra 15 minutes you heard about are just the euro version's
extra scenes, but it is entirely possible that it is yet another version.
I presume that this is the "hype" associated with the american video release
of the euromovie.

MHG.
(GHODS it's late!)

i spoke to someone at a local video store, here in Cambridge, and he told
me that they would be charging big bucks for tp, somewhere in the $60-80
range.

My Dear TP Lovers,

A friend of mine in Vancouver, CANADA, wrote to me and told me
they're going to show the new season of Twin Peaks in September (yes,
this month).  Is it true?  Is it the third season?  

As long as I know, Twin Peaks is all over and there's not a
chance of continuation.  I live in Japan, and my source of information
as to Twin Peaks is quite limited.  

I hope somebody will kindly tell me whether it's true or it's
just my friend's misunderstanding.

Regards,
           Yasuro KAWATA
        yasuro@is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp

Maekawa Laboratory, Department of Information Science, 
Faculty of Science, University of Tokyo, JAPAN

My Dear TP Lovers,

A friend of mine in Vancouver, CANADA, wrote to me and told me
they're going to show the new season of Twin Peaks in September (yes,
this month).  Is it true?  Is it the third season?  

As long as I know, Twin Peaks is all over and there's not a
chance of continuation.  I live in Japan, and my source of information
as to Twin Peaks is quite limited.  

I hope somebody will kindly tell me whether it's true or it's
just my friend's misunderstanding.

Regards,
           Yasuro KAWATA
        yasuro@is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp

Maekawa Laboratory, Department of Information Science, 
Faculty of Science, University of Tokyo, JAPAN

In article <1991Sep9.095937.1@wombat.newcastle.edu.au>, c9104666@wombat.newcastle.edu.au writes:
> > 3. the scene in which WE asks coop for his soul.....was strange.
> > after he asks him then BOB appears and says he cant ask for it and then says
> > i will take his soul...then we see a flame spurt from the top of his head.
> >    i think that WE was already possessed by BOB and when he did (WE) asked for
> > it i think that coop's fate was sealed. the flame from the top of WE head 
> > might have been BOB leaving him ( and in the process killing him). right after
> > that we saw coop doppelganger appear and chase after the good coop. when the
> > doppelganger caught up to coop we immediately saw BOB flash up in front of the 
> > screen ( maybe signally that coop was then possessed )

We should be careful not to fall into the trap of assuming that everybody who
does great evil is possessed by a powerful evil spirit.  Lynch loves to show
bizarre and outrageous evil, but he's not one to absolve evil humans of their
own tendencies by claiming they are somehow victims.  There are a LOT of 
evildoers in Twin Peaks (Leo, Jean, the early Ben, Hank) but BOB is not a 
factor for any of them.  Similarly, Windom Earle went in search of great
evil for his own ends, like the Dugpas before him.  He is a contributor to
the Black Lodge, not a victim of it.
-- cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet...

This is very insightful.  What's your point?  I recently found this mailing
list so I don't know what has/has not been stated earlier.

Wayne J. Rasmussen

Nice try, but this is done during the flashing and the video is reversed at least.
So I can't be certain of the eyes.  The dopplegangers eyes may be changable.  Are
they the same outside of the black lodge?

Wayne J. Rasmussen

Water is not the only way to clean yourself.  Perhaps alcohol?  Bob and WE
were not the cleanest people(?).  Look at their teeth!
Wayne J. Rasmussen

If I remember correctly, Hawk said you meet your evil self there.  An evil WE
which is an opposite of WE is strange. Hawk's statement could be a red herring.

In a previous article, wjr@PHOENIX.SCH.Symbolics.COM () says:
> >In article <1991Sep8.001229.17113@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> keb3@po.CWRU.Edu (Keith E. Bitely) writes:
>> >> In a previous article, wjr@PHOENIX.SCH.Symbolics.COM () says:

>>> >> >I am not sure if LP is always LP.  One time when she screams and moves close to
>>> >> >Coop, the face is strobed with light, you can see Windom Earls Face! If you play
>>> >> >it back one frame at time you will see this.  So is it WE playing LP or Visa Verse?
>>> >> >Perhaps it is Bob.

>> >> If I remember correctly from way back when in June, it seemed to me that
>> >> you could tell the dopplegangers from the real people because of their
>> >> eyes.  The dopplegangers tended to have hazel-blue liquidy eyes with small
>> >> or no pupils...whereas the real people had their real eyes.  

> >Nice try, but this is done during the flashing and the video is reversed at least.
> >So I can't be certain of the eyes.  The dopplegangers eyes may be changable.  Are
> >they the same outside of the black lodge?

You could be right.  I'd have to see it again, to be sure.  However, I don't
remember dopplegangers ever coming out of the black lodge.  There's been
speculation that the coop in the bathroom scene was a doppleganger, but I
don't remember any proof that a doppleganger actually left the black lodge.

Keith
-- "Life IS a soap opera. Didn't you know? This is Daytime TV for G*d" -a lady friend o' mine Vote #3 on issue #306 in freenet.pub-sq.kiosk voting area. Thanks!!

In article <3757@lulea.telesoft.se> sture@lulea.telesoft.se (Sture Jonsson) writes:
> >1: Was there something strange with Lauras shades ? It seemed to me that when
> >Maddie wore them (when she met Donna RR to give the shades to her) she seemed
> >'bad'. I believe that was when she trashed her glasses saying she hated them
> >and that she was never going to wear them again. It seemed to me like a bit out
> >of character. Also when Donna wore the shades, and she went to jail to see
:r fff

Donna was _meant_ to be out of character there.  Remember James
talking to Maddy about how weirdly she was behaving.  Donna was acting this
way because she wanted to be like Laura (see night scene at the
cemetary). 
Maddy also seemed "bad" for the same reason-- she was trying to
be like Laura.  She told James (at Pearl Lakes) that she enjoyed doing this.

Rocky Giovinazzo

In article <10340050@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM> brian@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Wood) writes:
>> >>Just because Twin Peaks was cansiled doesn't meen it has to end. Other
> >                             cancelled        mean
>> >>it to who ever is interested, or board enoulgh to read it. If any one is
> >       whoever (whomever)         bored enough                 anyone
>> >>interested contact me. I'me shore we could set somthing up. Maby come up
> >                        I'm  sure               something    Maybe
[etc. etc.]

> >Oh great.  Do you think anyone would actually READ something that was
> >typed with so many spelling errors, grammatical errors, sentence
> >construction errors and punctuation errors?  I don't.

> >I'm sorry, I really am.  I hate doing this to you.  But I can't get
> >through one of your postings and remember what you were trying to say.
> >I get lost in the mistakes.

There seem to be lots of international postings on this group.  I think
we can all suck it up and deal with the cryptic messages.  I haven't
had any trouble making things out.

Rocky Giovinazzo

kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes:
> >
> > The t is where the engine yard of a local rail historical society was.
> >

Hmmm....

Believe there's still a disconnect going on here --- the area around
and behind what I'm indicating as a "t" on that map doesn't look as
if it has ever been anything besides a pulloff area for trashed train
cars.  And there are *many* cars still there, so what's the scoop -w-
Weyerhauser "tossing them out"?  Why would Weyerhauser "toss out" the
particular cars used in the filming and not the rest?  Doesn't make
sense...  I really think we're talking about two different pieces of
track, but...

Holy smokes, now I'm doubting myself. ;)  One thing is for *certain*:
there was an orange/yellow car and a car of the LPTC variety hooked
together and parked down that spur as of the beginning of last week.


Somebody --- please go confirm this and save my sanity. ;) ;)


--
---- jbone@Sun.COM --------------------------------------------------
 <sniff, sniff --- what's that smell?  It's like....  engine oil...>
 <"Don't GO there!">  <"Tell Harry I didn't cry."> <"Wow, Bob, wow">
------------------------------------------------------ Jeff Bone ----
                                                                   --

In article <4479@dali> ieevlsi2@cs.montana.edu (VLSI) writes:
>>> >> > Even sadder:  whinny fans of oddball shows like Twin Peaks can't seem
>>> >> > to understand that "normal TV viewers" don't want oddball shows.
>>> >> > These "normal" viewers number in the tens of millions:  They want
>>> >> > sappy sitcoms and predictable shoot-em-ups.
> >
>>> >> > If you don't enjoy most of what's on American TV, it's because you're
>>> >> > not part of the normal society that likes garish cars, greasy fast food,
>>> >> > and Tony Danza.
> >
> >This bodes poorly for NE.  After all, all of the descriptions for NE
> >were that it was offbeat, wacky, oddball, etc.  Not very mainstream,
> >especially when it takes place in such an offbeat place.  So after 
> >Maggie and Joel get together, then "the mystery is over..."
> >

Yes, but it's wacky, offbeat, etc. in a benign way.  I think NE will 
continue to be popular *because* it's a little different, but not
threatening.  I love NE, don't get me wrong, but it isn't a challenge
in the way Twin Peaks was.  It's delightful, like St. Elsewhere (although
S.E. had it's dark moments--maybe that's why it never did too
well in the ratings).

Hey:  first SE, now NE from Brand and Falsey.  Can we expect the rest
of the directions (NW and SW)?
-- kim@techbook.COM ...!{tektronix!nosun,uunet}techbook!kim Hey! Whose opinions are these, anyway?

In article <goomcb32.684430299@vulcan>, goomcb32@vulcan.anu.edu.au (Miles Goodhew) writes...

} I THINK that the extra 15 minutes you heard about are just the euro version's
} extra scenes, but it is entirely possible that it is yet another version.
} I presume that this is the "hype" associated with the american video release
} of the euromovie.

This is correct. The version of the pilot being released on tape and disc in
the US is simply the Euroversion.

-- "Nice climate you have here. High oxygen content." "I rarely use it myself, sir. It promotes rust." --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA) boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM or ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian

In article <1991Sep9.204831.1794@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> keb3@po.CWRU.Edu (Keith E. Bitely) writes:
> >
> >You could be right.  I'd have to see it again, to be sure.  However, I don't
> >remember dopplegangers ever coming out of the black lodge.  There's been
> >speculation that the coop in the bathroom scene was a doppleganger, but I
> >don't remember any proof that a doppleganger actually left the black lodge.
> >
What it looked like to me was that, after Earle had stabbed Coop, and
Bob had appeared and taken Earle's soul instead of Coop's, then a second
Coop appeared lurking at the edge of the room. Coop then starts to
leave, going from room to room, with this double following but not
exactly chasing. Then, right before Coop leaves the Black Lodge, the
double chases and appears to catch the real Coop as he goes through the
last curtain.

Later, as Coop, back in the 'real' world, looks into the bathroom
mirror, we see Bob's face. Was the Coop double just another
manifestation of Bob, so that the 'Coop' who came back was not Coop at
all but Bob? Or was the double the evil side of Coop's personality, with
Bob riding on his back?

Take your pick. I guess we'll never know now. We could ask the writers
what they intended to happen next, but they probably hadn't decided
themselves. :-)

Steve

As of a couple of months ago, the train cars were definitely still there.
Jeff, you can stop doubting your sanity.  Your description jibes pretty
exactly with my recollection and my home video.  I've looked at both my
video and the shot from the show, and am pretty damned certain that those
are the cars.  And, like I mentioned in my fairly detailed posting on
Twin Peaks sites a couple of weeks ago, you can even spot the little
outhouse that was by those cars in the footage from the show.

Things are happening in that area, however, as there were no cars blocking
the view of the murder cars when I visited.

I don't know the area all that well or anything, but I'm sure you have to
enter from the Salish side of the fenced-in train cars (as opposed to the
town center side).  And walking toward that Salish side, if you just follow
the path alongside the fenced-in cars and the main road, you will come to
a small wooden footpath/bridge which must be crossed, and not long after
that the tracks turn into the woods.  That's the place.  It is a ways in
(I guesstimated 1/4 mile), past a number of other cars and engines.  I think
the murder cars are the first ones to show up on your right (and elevated,
as you observed, Jeff) as you are proceeding further into the woods.

I *think* this is path "a" on somebody's map (as opposed to "b") - the first
of the two on the Salish side of the fenced-in cars.  At least I don't recall
walking past any other tracks heading into the woods.  HMMMM... Wait a minute!
I was walking on the main-road side of the fenced-in cars.  There may have
been a set of tracks that turned into the woods about midway along the
fenced-in cars on the residential side of the fenced-in cars (I seem to
recall such a set of tracks from a short drive down that side of the fenced
area)... that would be the wrong set of tracks.  It's only the "first" set
of tracks *after* the fenced area and the wooden footpath/bridge.

Whew.  This is tough to do without a consistent set of maps.  But I hope that
helps.
-- -larryy@apple.com "You wouldn't recognize a *subtle plan* if it painted itself purple, and danced naked upon a harpsichord, singing, 'Subtle Plans are Here Again'." - Edmund Blackadder

In article <0kLN85w164w@whitebase.ukp.com> salmieri@whitebase.ukp.com (Gregory Salmieri) writes:
> >I agree the lodge plot was very weekand they may have been able to carry it 
> >out more realolisticly. IE not having pine trees turn into curtains and (s 
> >it) Venis and Mars(?) recieve Cooper. 

What? Huh? Did you have special training in gobbledegook, or is your
keyboard broken?

Does anyone know what this guy is smoking?

Couple of minor corrections/additions to the recent SumUp...

The dream sequence in the TV series and the ending tacked onto the European
film version of TP are identical.  (And I agree with earlier posters that
the human versions of Mike and Bob [not the spirits MIKE and BOB] in the
European film version make for a pretty lame explanation of Laura's murder,
and the tacked on dream sequence still looks pretty neat, but has absolutely
nothing to tie it in to the rest of the story.)

A number of sources, including my local videodisc store, have confirmed that
the new TP premiere release is indeed just the European film version.
-- -larryy@apple.com "You wouldn't recognize a *subtle plan* if it painted itself purple, and danced naked upon a harpsichord, singing, 'Subtle Plans are Here Again'." - Edmund Blackadder

In article <1991Sep4.223345.9182@beaver.cs.washington.edu> salisbur@cs.washington.edu (Mike Salisbury) writes:
> >
> >The trailer park manager was Harry Dean Stanton (I don't know who
> >he is.  Someone else told me this.)  
> >
Harry Dean Stanton is a GREAT actor. Check him out in the movies "Repo
Man" and "Paris, Texas", to name but two. The first is real
"Alternative" stuff, but fascinating. The second is a GREAT movie by the
director Wim Wenders (sp?) -- I think -- definitely in my top ten
all-time great films.

Steve

Yes, I agree that both Donna and Maddie were supposed to be out of character,
but the question is why ? Maddie said she liked it, but does that mean that
she just did it for fun or that the shades helped her ?

Sture

subject: domino

don't know if this has come up before, anyway:

it seems to be that the way some TP characters interact with each other
like lining dominos up one after another in a line and then tipping one 
over to start off a chained reaction. eg: Shelly is bullied by Leo, Leo 
is beaten by Hank, Hank by the Asian Man and the Brothers Horne.
(there might be more than one character menacing the other) 
comments anyone?

In article <1991Sep9.101856.1@wombat.newcastle.edu.au>, c9104666@wombat.newcastle.edu.au writes:
> > 
> > The final two hours was excellent! Many of you said that it was 
> > disappointing, that if left to many unanswered questions..!!!
                    (a few lines deleted)
> > David Lynch could have easily given us all want we wanted to see...
> > good triumph over evil (coop defeat WE) and tie up all the loose ends.But he 
> > didn't...... he thought of what we would most hate to see and took that option.
> > that's the man he is ...has he ever given people a nice easy to follow ending
> > to any of his work!!.
        Well, yes I think he has: the endings of "Wild at Heart", "Blue Velvet
and of the first series of TP all seemed a lot more positive than this one.
IMHO, David does not like to see evil triumphant, though it may not necessarily
be destroyed. I think what he had in mind was an interesting start to a third
series, without the problems that occured at the start of series 2, with Bob
dead and no reason for Cooper to remain.But no third series has eventuated as
yet.
        As for the rest of the final episode, I enjoyed it a lot, especially
with DL back in the directorial chair. I thought Kyle seemed to enjoy the role
of the evil Cooper, but I can't blame him, since Cooper has been such a zero
for so long! (This line is meant to provoke)
 
 I hope this posts OK. This is my first attempt at contributing to news.
     
     Graeme Lindsell.

In article <1991Sep9.191111.3087@kei.is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp>, yasuro@is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp (KAWATA Yasuro) writes...

} A friend of mine in Vancouver, CANADA, wrote to me and told me they're
} going to show the new season of Twin Peaks in September (yes, this month).
} Is it true? Is it the third season?

No, sorry to say that it's not true. TWIN PEAKS is over, done, fini, as a
series. All that's coming is the theatrical movie, which is planned for a
Spring 1992 release.

} As long as I know, Twin Peaks is all over and there's not a chance of
} continuation.

That's exactly the case.

} I hope somebody will kindly tell me whether it's true or it's just my
} friend's misunderstanding.

I'm not sure where your friend got his or her information, but it's not
true.

-- "Nice climate you have here. High oxygen content." "I rarely use it myself, sir. It promotes rust." --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA) boyajian%ruby.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM or ...!decwrl!ruby.enet.dec.com!boyajian

I know why WE's teeth were black and his face was white!:

When he went to the opening the previous night, the "stars" were not in
conjunction, and in a vain effort to gain status within the black lodge,
he took a biiiig sip of burnt engine oil. Hence: black teeth, and
white face (Well, how the heck would you feel with a few litres of GTX
in you?)

MHG.
(no, I am *NOT* serious) :)

sthomas@library.adelaide.edu.au (Steve Thomas) writes:

> >In article <1991Sep4.223345.9182@beaver.cs.washington.edu> salisbur@cs.washington.edu (Mike Salisbury) writes:
>> >>
>> >>The trailer park manager was Harry Dean Stanton (I don't know who
>> >>he is.  Someone else told me this.)  
>> >>
> >Harry Dean Stanton is a GREAT actor. Check him out in the movies "Repo
> >Man" and "Paris, Texas", to name but two. The first is real
> >"Alternative" stuff, but fascinating. The second is a GREAT movie by the
> >director Wim Wenders (sp?) -- I think -- definitely in my top ten
> >all-time great films.

> >Steve


Not to mention Ridley Scott's A|L|I|E|N (for anybody who doesn't know, he plays
the mousey guy wearing a cap all the time).

He has also been in "UFOria" - an ok film, p'raps more appealing to his fans
(Also, Deborah Harry (sp?) mentions him in her single "I want that man":
"...I wanna dance with Harry Dean...", or something  like that).

Off-topic, or WHAT!

MHG.

I came across two gif images of Sherilyn Fenn, one called SHERILYN.GIF and
another , much better quality called FENN.GIF.

-- Email: J.Heaton@uk.ac.MCC Packet: G1YYH@G1YYH.GB7NWP.#16.GBR.EU (QTHR) NRS Central Administrator, MCC Network Unit, The University, Oxford Road, Manchester, M13-9PL Phone: (+44) 61 275 6011, FAX: (+44) 61 275 6040

I'm not sure if anyone brought this up or not but... I went to my
local video place and asked them about the Twin Peaks video.  The
gentleman showed me that there are two different videos available.
One is Twin Peaks (the 2 hour Euroversion???) for $80.  The other tape
is called Twin Peaks Twin Pak selling for $114.  Does anyone know what
this one is?  

Thanks

Lorrayne Schaefer
<lorrayne@smiley.mitre.org>

Could someone please send me the timeline after that episode when
Cooper first goes to the Owl Cave?

It would be apreciated.

joe@zitt (Joe Zitt) writes:
> >film may have looked to its original viewers (many of whom are here, so
> >speak up!).

Oh, all right.

> >If you don't know that it is a crabbed together throwaway, the film looks
> >like a far different piece, with only slight similarities to the way the

Exactly.

It shows a large cast of characters, all interacting in
various ways with each other and setting up a whole series
of red herrings and false trails.

> >reasonable solution to the crime. In the end, someone we haven't seen
> >until then (except in a throwaway shot) reveals someone else we haven't
> >seen as the killer. Twentyfive years later, we see the FBI man, who

In practicaly all TV detective stories, the villan is one
of the main characters. We just don't (usualy) know who it
is at first, and the clues are piled up and with a final
twist the villan is revealed.

Pulling in a total stranger as whodunit put a very enjoyable
twist on the proceedings.

> >The whole thing seems to be a work of total nihilism. Nothing that anyone
> >learns turns out to have anything to do with the killing, which is
> >a random insane act by an irrelevant madman.

While you watch it and drive yourself half crazy trying to
follow all the apparent clues and plot twists you expect in 
this type of film. All the familiar knobs and handles are
there, but none of them do what you expect. And the actual
killer is insane because his actions were totaly
unpredictable.

> >If the released cassette is of the Euroversion, and is followed by the
> >rest of the series as if the ending hadn't happened, people who catch
> >on to and catch up with the series on tape will be terribly confused. 1001

Yes. You'll see the actions of the various characters in
terms of what those actions lead to later in the series,
rather than as a maze of plot threads.

Seeing the Euroversion first, then the series gives
you a very different perspective than doing it the other
way round.
Bob.

>> >> I thought that bob played everyone in the Black lodge and that every one 
>> >> meets there duble there it they can face it then they go to the white lodge 
>> >> Cooper ran away from his duble so it follows that he will be trapped in the 
>> >> Black Lodge.

> >If I remember correctly, Hawk said you meet your evil self there.  An evil WE
> >which is an opposite of WE is strange. Hawk's statement could be a red herring.

Hawk says that you meet your "shadow self" there.  Not necessarily evil,

though the themes in the show connect dark with evil.  I think that dark
(or evil) being something to be purged is a bit too simplistic.  Hawk
also calls the "shadow self" the "dweller on the threshold".  Threshold
of what?  You obviously have to deal with the doppleganger before
getting through the doorway - i have assumed that the doorway to the 
White lodge is the goal.  Maybe not.  In psychological sense it probably
has something to do with being able to contain your "evil" side
(reminiscent of Star Trek's episode when Captain Kirk is split into his
aggressive and compassionate parts...)

goomcb32@vulcan.anu.edu.au (Miles Goodhew) writes:

> >sthomas@library.adelaide.edu.au (Steve Thomas) writes:

>> >>In article <1991Sep4.223345.9182@beaver.cs.washington.edu> salisbur@cs.washington.edu (Mike Salisbury) writes:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>The trailer park manager was Harry Dean Stanton (I don't know who
>>> >>>he is.  Someone else told me this.)  
>>> >>>
>> >>Harry Dean Stanton is a GREAT actor. Check him out in the movies "Repo
>> >>Man" and "Paris, Texas", to name but two. The first is real
>> >>"Alternative" stuff, but fascinating. The second is a GREAT movie by the
>> >>director Wim Wenders (sp?) -- I think -- definitely in my top ten
>> >>all-time great films.

>> >>Steve


> >Not to mention Ridley Scott's A|L|I|E|N (for anybody who doesn't know, he plays
> >the mousey guy wearing a cap all the time).

> >He has also been in "UFOria" - an ok film, p'raps more appealing to his fans
> >(Also, Deborah Harry (sp?) mentions him in her single "I want that man":
> >"...I wanna dance with Harry Dean...", or something  like that).

Also:  DEATHWATCH (hard to find, but well worth it), WILD AT HEART (as I'm
sure we all know), PRETTY IN PINK (no comment), etc., etc.

> >Off-topic, or WHAT!

Oh, yeah.  Good point.
===========================================================================  
Captain Frank A. Lauro              fal20643@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Commanding Officer                  University of Illinois
USS ALEXA, NCC 1764-D               at Champaign-Urbana
================QUOTE OF THE [INSERT TEMPORAL DESIGNATION]=================
"Y'know, I stuck up for you the other day.  Somebody said to me, 'Hey, I saw
that friend of yours, Frank Lauro, eatin' a shit sandwich!'  And I
said, 'Well, I know that's bullshit---he doesn't like bread.'"
---Lt. Commander Jeramy Alan Anderson, Primary Helmsman,
   USS ALEXA, 4 September 1991

goomcb32@vulcan.anu.edu.au (Miles Goodhew) writes:
> >sthomas@library.adelaide.edu.au (Steve Thomas) writes:
>> >>salisbur@cs.washington.edu (Mike Salisbury) writes:
>>> >>>The trailer park manager was Harry Dean Stanton (I don't know who
>>> >>>he is.  Someone else told me this.)
>> >>Harry Dean Stanton is a GREAT actor. Check him out in the movies "Repo
>> >>Man" and "Paris, Texas", to name but two.
> >Not to mention Ridley Scott's A|L|I|E|N (for anybody who doesn't know, he plays
> >the mousey guy wearing a cap all the time).

Let's not forget that he was also in David Lynch's "Wild at Heart," where
(I thought) he gave an excellent performance.

Speaking of Lynchian actors, I hear that Laura Dern and her mother, Dianne
Ladd, are going to be appearing in an upcoming movie, the title of which
escapes me at the moment.  But it showed at the Telluride Film Festival
last week, and critics are predicting Oscars for it.

--
bvickers@ics.uci.edu | "Only a large-scale popular movement toward
brett@ucippro.bitnet |  decentralization and self-help can arrest the
                     |  present tendency toward statism." - Aldous Huxley